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[Darkes7]

Sorry to break your fascinating conversation but I actually went to the cinema (only one is still playing it) today to see it...

I've heard very mixed opinions so I didn't know what to expect, and putting it short - I really liked it. It's definitely impressive in terms of how it looks (the whole world is indeed incredibly beautiful, despite being dangerous), and I don't think I need to elaborate much here, in fact I guess I would fail miserably if I tried to. However, I also really liked the storyline. Sure, it's not the most original or revolutionary idea ever, but the way it's in Avatar is just great - I also really liked the whole idea of the main character, for some reason I could immediately understand his actions.

There were some parts which definitely felt naive to me, but well, no matter. It was definitely a great experience and I don't regret the over two hours spent watching it at all.

[And I hope I won't start a tornado, but I can't understand people claiming Avatar is stupid and flat, at the same time worshipping Dark Knight for being deep and philosophical...]

[Sigz]

I haven't heard anyone call The Dark Night deep or philosophical, but it was a far more interesting and better written movie than Avatar.

[Dimitrius]

I haven't heard anyone call The Dark Night deep or philosophical, but it was a far more interesting and better written movie than Avatar.

[orcus116]

And actually had characters with more than one dimension.

[Darkes7]

More like 23567 different dimensions with all of them made of plastic and then bloated to an unbelievable (and unnecessary) size.

[Sigz]

Huh?

[Darkes7]

Shortened to one word: pretentious. Avatar at least doesn't pretend to be incredibly deep, it just has a fairly simple idea executed exceptionally well.

[orcus116]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it pretentious. The fact that you think TDK was trying to be deep is something you've labeled it because you weren't a fan, not something that's actually part of the movie. And it's not hard to execute Avatar's idea because it's already been done many times before. That alone made the whole thing pretty boring.

[Bombardana]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it pretentious. The fact that you think TDK was trying to be deep is something you've labeled it because you weren't a fan, not something that's actually part of the movie. And it's not hard to execute Avatar's idea because it's already been done many times before. That alone made the whole thing pretty boring.

I take issue with the fact that you think you know his opinion better than he does. His perspective is completely valid whether you agree with it or not, so don't try to claim he has made a misunderstanding in reaching this conclusion.

I haven't heard anyone call The Dark Night deep or philosophical

I have.

[Sigz]

I still don't know where this idea that TDK was trying to be deep is coming from.

[orcus116]

I just based that off how he has argued things in the past.

[Adami]

I still don't know where this idea that TDK was trying to be deep is coming from.

Compared to Avatar, it's deep. Compared to Avatar, a puddle is deep.

[Bombardana]

I just based that off how he has argued things in the past.

I don't see how that changes that you think he can't legitimately think that TDK was pretentious, and it's only because he doesn't like it.

[Bombardana]

I still don't know where this idea that TDK was trying to be deep is coming from.

Compared to Avatar, it's deep. Compared to Avatar, a puddle is deep.

If we are still talking about deep in the philosophical sense (as it was being used in Darkes7 post) then Avatar has plenty of philosophical themes throughout. It is hard for me to make this comparison between TDK and Avatar though.

[Adami]

Having a philosophical implication doesn't make it deep. Or else Clueless and High School Musical are deep.

[emindead]

I don't think TDK is that "deep", much more of a really well told story with interesting dialogues.

[Bombardana]

Having a philosophical implication doesn't make it deep. Or else Clueless and High School Musical are deep.

Then please tell me how you are defining "deep" with regards to films.

[Adami]

Having a philosophical implication doesn't make it deep. Or else Clueless and High School Musical are deep.

Then please tell me how you are defining "deep" with regards to films.

Something that provokes intense thought and reflection based on either emotional or intellectual lingerings of the story.

Avatar didn't do that. I'm not claiming TDK was that deep or anything by the way, so don't confuse that.

[Darkes7]

A movie which has the main hero discussing with the main evil character about good and evil, lots of lines such as "in the past the evil had rules", and an ending which sounds like it's trying to be a new book of the Bible definitely counts as trying to be philosophical. And it was trying way too hard.

I know the comparison may be weird genre-wise, but both are films which have had a huge impact, and one praised for being deep and whatever when it's unexpected, and the other one is criticised for the opposite reason. I just wanted it to be a side comment, but it seems to have evolved...

[Adami]

Wait, in which movie did someone say "in the past the evil had rules"? I don't remember such a bad line in either movie. Also, which movie tried to be the new bible? I must have missed that in either as well.


Unless you're talking about Dogma by Kevin Smith, in which case it should be in the bible.

[Darkes7]

It's not an exact quote but something along these lines. I don't know The Dark Knight by heart.

[Adami]

It's not an exact quote but something along these lines. I don't know The Dark Knight by heart.

I think you're reffering to The Joker and whoever the crime boss is telling Batman that he has rules.

Dunno how that's deep or anything though.

[Darkes7]

You have a talent for pulling details out of a longer post and ignoring the whole context.

[Adami]

You have a talent for pulling details out of a longer post and ignoring the whole context.

I quoted your entire post.

All you said before is that lots of people praised TDK for being super deep and philosophical and backed it up with "I dunno, I heard it somewhere". Sorry for not making a great retort to that.

[Bombardana]

Having a philosophical implication doesn't make it deep. Or else Clueless and High School Musical are deep.

Then please tell me how you are defining "deep" with regards to films.

Something that provokes intense thought and reflection based on either emotional or intellectual lingerings of the story.

Avatar didn't do that. I'm not claiming TDK was that deep or anything by the way, so don't confuse that.

By your definition, I would consider Avatar to be deep.

[ehra]

Having a philosophical implication doesn't make it deep. Or else Clueless and High School Musical are deep.

Then please tell me how you are defining "deep" with regards to films.

Something that provokes intense thought and reflection based on either emotional or intellectual lingerings of the story.

Avatar didn't do that. I'm not claiming TDK was that deep or anything by the way, so don't confuse that.

By your definition, I would consider Avatar to be deep.

Mean people do mean things to other not mean people for reasons that aren't clearly explain in the movie itself (other than greed). And the not mean people really love nature. Except, really, since all life is apparently connect through the planet's life force or whatever the hell it was, everything on the planet is really part of some kind of hive colony. So, in effect, their love (and even worship, from what I remember) for nature is just love/worthip for themselves and they are actually the universe's biggest narcissists.

Ok, I guess there's some depth there if you go looking for it.

[Adami]

Fair enough. I have no need to make you guys think the way I do. I own the movie, I enjoyed it. I'm very happy you enjoyed it as well, even more so than myself. However no where near as much as chino.

[Adami]

Also, just to make peace with everyone here.

[MetalManiac666]

Mmmmmm, boobs.

Boobs have the ability to solve all of man's problems.

[Super Dude]

The only reason I enjoyed TDK was because Heath Ledger was a pleasure to watch at the top of his game.  The only reason I don't like Avatar is because its delivery of plot and some of the plot devices it uses makes it difficult for me to enjoy. Basically, if I can watch a movie and say to myself, "Even I wouldn't have made that mistake," it's difficult for me to enjoy the movie on its own merits. The way I explain it may sound pretentious, but if an amateur writer like me could avoid Unobtainium when a screenwriter with many years of experience did it anyway, it's frustrating. Also the way it's introduced into the film feels very amateurish. I guess to me it's just annoying when professionals produce scripts that play out unprofessionally.

Wow, that still sounds pretentious. Does anyone here understand what I'm trying to say?

[Sigz]

As lame as unobtanium sounds, it actually kinda makes sense. Currently it's used to describe a non-existent element, much like the 'philospher's stone'. If humanity ever were to discover something like the substance in Avatar, it's not terribly surprising that it would be called that, at least colloquially.

Though on a broader level, I know exactly what you mean.

[Darkes7]

I got the feeling since the beginning there's no reason to focus on the unobtanium, it's just a base for more important issues.

[Adami]

I got the feeling since the beginning there's no reason to focus on the unobtanium, it's just a base for more important issues.

But you can't ignore the base of the entire movie.

[Super Dude]

Yes calling it unobtainium is stupid, but it didn't bother me as much as how they introduced it.  It was basically, "Oh, our viewers don't know why we're even here, so let me introduce it to you so that they can understand," if you get what I mean.  Also, I LOVE Sigourney Weaver, but the character they gave her was so annoyingly cliche.  Her line "Where's my cigarette?" was basically like telling the viewers, "And this is the token pissed off female scientist we're using as our politically correct 'tough' woman."

[Darkes7]

I got the feeling since the beginning there's no reason to focus on the unobtanium, it's just a base for more important issues.

But you can't ignore the base of the entire movie.

I think you will have (if you already don't) lots of trouble with many, many books and movies.