*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[KevShmev]

I do not see the ending as underwhelming. I think it fits perfectly with the entire meaning of the song. The videos during the live shows really helps explain this meaning. And the ending isn't supposed to really be uplifting and ethereal sounding, it's supposed to represent that face off with death, that is the moment where you feel most alive, that is what the ending tension of the outro symbolizes. It's why to me, the outro is like saying, "Come on. Bring on the next challenge." almost like declaring to the world to bring on the next face off with death.

Again, I get what they were going for.  I just don't think the execution was as good as it could have been.  For me, the listener, it is never a good sign when I listen to a song that long and find the ending unsatisfying, even if it makes sense on paper.

[Cool Chris]

I never thought twice about the song's ending till I started reading some complaints here. *shakes fist at forum

[Ben_Jamin]

I do not see the ending as underwhelming. I think it fits perfectly with the entire meaning of the song. The videos during the live shows really helps explain this meaning. And the ending isn't supposed to really be uplifting and ethereal sounding, it's supposed to represent that face off with death, that is the moment where you feel most alive, that is what the ending tension of the outro symbolizes. It's why to me, the outro is like saying, "Come on. Bring on the next challenge." almost like declaring to the world to bring on the next face off with death.

Again, I get what they were going for.  I just don't think the execution was as good as it could have been.  For me, the listener, it is never a good sign when I listen to a song that long and find the ending unsatisfying, even if it makes sense on paper.

What is unsatisfying about it? Is it the sudden transition after the end vocals? How could it have been better? I myself think the execution was good.

This is a good reason why I do not expect anything in music, especially expecting where the music itself may go. That's a perfect set-up for disappointment and being left unsatisfied. It's as if the music did not reach those expected moments your body was preparing itself for, in order to release those feel good chemicals that make it feel satisfying. It's those chemicals that are released when you hear a song that connects with you on a certain level and why some songs can make people cry, angry, or feel satisfied enough as if they just had the best sex of their life. 

[Trav]

I never thought twice about the song's ending till I started reading some complaints here. *shakes fist at forum

Same here. The internet in general has tried to ruin a lot of music for me.

[Ben_Jamin]

I never thought twice about the song's ending till I started reading some complaints here. *shakes fist at forum

Same here. The internet in general has tried to ruin a lot of music for me.

See, I don't even bother caring what others think of the music. I do find it fascinating how people listen to music and why, which people listen to music for various different reasons.

I'd even go to the lengths to say that the prog music fan is similar to the classical music snob, saying things like, "Prog music is music, unlike that hip-hop music." Both are music due to various reasons.

I enjoy all types of music, and it's hilarious when people hang out with me and hear the songs I listen to. I find that sort of sad with how much great music they are missing out on, while being spoonfed the same beats, styles, structures, everywhere, and I can predict what will be played because it's liked by everyone and that's all they listen too. Those damn NOMACS 

Without the internet, I would not have discovered a lot of the amazing music I listen to, such as The Hu.

[geeeemo]

I never thought twice about the song's ending till I started reading some complaints here. *shakes fist at forum

Same here. The internet in general has tried to ruin a lot of music for me.

See, I don't even bother caring what others think of the music. I do find it fascinating how people listen to music and why, which people listen to music for various different reasons.

I'd even go to the lengths to say that the prog music fan is similar to the classical music snob, saying things like, "Prog music is music, unlike that hip-hop music." Both are music due to various reasons.

I enjoy all types of music, and it's hilarious when people hang out with me and hear the songs I listen to. I find that sort of sad with how much great music they are missing out on, while being spoonfed the same beats, styles, structures, everywhere, and I can predict what will be played because it's liked by everyone and that's all they listen too. Those damn NOMACS 

Without the internet, I would not have discovered a lot of the amazing music I listen to, such as The Hu.

I would never have listened to Trap music, except for my younger son. We have done a lot of road trips and we take turns picking music. Now, I never listen to it on my own, but I have learned some songs, and they are fun to listen to and sing to with my son when we are hanging out....
"Don't you open up that window Don't you let out that antidote".  lol!

I have listened to many genres over the years. I go in phases and like the same thing and then move on. I hope though, I won't ever want to move on from DT!..

[emtee]

I've had this long enough to confidently say it's a top tier album.  It's the only DT album that my first spin was on headphones and I think that had a powerful impact given how sonically perfect this album is. No songs are skips. All are strong to brilliant. There are a few DT'isms that could have been left off but all-in-all it's an amazing album at this stage of their career. So was DoT. Also, Mangini is in another league. This would have to be one of the top recorded performances by a drummer I've ever heard.

[Setlist Scotty]

I never thought twice about the song's ending till I started reading some complaints here. *shakes fist at forum

Same here. The internet in general has tried to ruin a lot of music for me.

See, I don't even bother caring what others think of the music. I do find it fascinating how people listen to music and why, which people listen to music for various different reasons.

Agreed. That said, I also thought the end of the title track is a bit of a letdown, and that was before I started reading anyone else's comments. Still overall, it's a great track and probably rates within my top 25 of DT's catalog. But it might rank even higher if the ending was better IMO.

[Max Kuehnau]

IMHO the ending has a purpose and it is executed really well (if you noticed, they slow down gradually *on top of* several complex polyrhythms *on top of* them reprising the main theme in 23. Not basic at all, and all in perfect time.)

[KevShmev]

What is unsatisfying about it? Is it the sudden transition after the end vocals? How could it have been better? I myself think the execution was good.

It isn't good enough to justify its length. A buddy and I talked about this a while back and agreed, and that is if a song is that long as to warrant frequent listens, it had better a) be really good overall, AND b) have a satisfying ending.  You can keep asking me, but that is the best way I can put it.  I am not saying I will never listen to it again, as I am sure I will circle back to it sooner rather than later to see if a fresh listen or two sheds some new light, and full album listens will still happen, but for now it's just not a song I reach for.  If you love the song and love the end, more power to ya. 

[Ben_Jamin]

What is unsatisfying about it? Is it the sudden transition after the end vocals? How could it have been better? I myself think the execution was good.

It isn't good enough to justify its length. A buddy and I talked about this a while back and agreed, and that is if a song is that long as to warrant frequent listens, it had better a) be really good overall, AND b) have a satisfying ending.  You can keep asking me, but that is the best way I can put it.  I am not saying I will never listen to it again, as I am sure I will circle back to it sooner rather than later to see if a fresh listen or two sheds some new light, and full album listens will still happen, but for now it's just not a song I reach for.  If you love the song and love the end, more power to ya. 

Either way, it's a fantastic song live and that ending was amazing to hear them do live, actually the entire song was amazing to hear them do. And for the first time live, they did an excellent job.

[Kram]

I love the title track!  Top 10-15 all-time DT song for me, and I have no problem with the ending. Plus, it was absolutely Killer live.  Just thought I'd state that for the umpteenth time.

[gzarruk]

The ending is similar to what they did with Scarred, but crazier

[TAC]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

[Setlist Scotty]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

This sums up my feelings about it perfectly - especially the transition at about time stamp 18:18.

[Architeuthis]

The ending is similar to what they did with Scarred, but crazier

Whoa you're right, great observation!   

[hefdaddy42]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

The final vocal section in literally every other epic song tries to be epic.  I love the fact that they did something different, against the grain.

[TAC]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

The final vocal section in literally every other epic song tries to be epic.  I love the fact that they did something different, against the grain.

Well, if they tried not to be epic in that spot...they succeeded.

[Trav]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

The final vocal section in literally every other epic song tries to be epic.  I love the fact that they did something different, against the grain.

Exactly.  If they do the big epic ending, everyone will be saying "oh, they copied Octavarium, but it's not as good". Then they do something different, and it is t good enough either. I guess they set the bar so high that if they aren't reinventing the wheel every album, people aren't going to like it.

And not liking the last two of three minutes, of a twenty minute song, just ruins the whole thing for you? I don't get that at all.

[Stadler]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

The final vocal section in literally every other epic song tries to be epic.  I love the fact that they did something different, against the grain.

Exactly.  If they do the big epic ending, everyone will be saying "oh, they copied Octavarium, but it's not as good". Then they do something different, and it is t good enough either. I guess they set the bar so high that if they aren't reinventing the wheel every album, people aren't going to like it.

And not liking the last two of three minutes, of a twenty minute song, just ruins the whole thing for you? I don't get that at all.

That last part isn't so hard to fathom; I have songs like that.  You build up, you build up, and... you're left hanging.  It's like anything else, it's all part of a flow.

[Kram]

That final vocal section in AVFTTOTW needed to be epic. Instead, it's a real dud, especially that last note. And of course when it transitions from the final vocal note to the outro, it feels like a bad splice. The outro itself is awesome. But the song ultimately leaves me hanging.

The final vocal section in literally every other epic song tries to be epic.  I love the fact that they did something different, against the grain.

Exactly.  If they do the big epic ending, everyone will be saying "oh, they copied Octavarium, but it's not as good". Then they do something different, and it is t good enough either. I guess they set the bar so high that if they aren't reinventing the wheel every album, people aren't going to like it.

And not liking the last two of three minutes, of a twenty minute song, just ruins the whole thing for you? I don't get that at all.

I agree.  I've learned, you'll never please every DT fan.  So just chalk it up to we all have our own likes/dislikes and it's just our opinions.  Nobody is right or wrong - but I agree with your opinion on this.

[Setlist Scotty]

And not liking the last two of three minutes, of a twenty minute song, just ruins the whole thing for you? I don't get that at all.

I won't say that I don't like the end of the song - just that it's lacking something extra to end it with more of an exclamation mark than a period. But I still really enjoy the song and rate it highly. Just not quite as much as I would if the ending would've been better IMO.

[TAC]

And not liking the last two of three minutes, of a twenty minute song, just ruins the whole thing for you? I don't get that at all.

I won't say that I don't like the end of the song - just that it's lacking something extra to end it with more of an exclamation mark than a period. But I still really enjoy the song and rate it highly. Just not quite as much as I would if the ending would've been better IMO.

Right. It is an excellent song, but it had another level to go to, and it just didn't get there.

[cramx3]

I'd say the problem stems a bit more from the song being similar to some of the recent epics and the ending just didn't match the epicness of the other ones.  I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

[erwinrafael]

It is part of the song's charm, it's brave enough to try something different for the sake of being consistent with its narrative.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

[Podaar]

I was just popping in to say how epic and awesome I find the ending of View is...reading above...once again, I'm in the minority. 

Like I've always thought, loose your expectations and you're pleasantly surprised more often than not.

[TAC]

Like I've always thought, loose your expectations and you're pleasantly surprised more often than not.

Sure.

But I only had ONE first listen to the song, and I had no expectations. I was just following along, enjoying it immensely, then suddenly the rug was pulled out. I found it, for lack of a better word...(slightly) unpleasant.
So expectations really had nothing to do with it.

[bosk1]

It is part of the song's charm, it's brave enough to try something different for the sake of being consistent with its narrative.

Personally, I love that the song is bold enough to conquer; brave enough to fail.



I'll see myself out.

[Kram]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

It's way better than IT for me.  I'd say it's close to the Count (depending on the day you ask me, I may say I like it better or not).

[Wim Kruithof]

gmillerdrake,

although I very much like your reflection on the live event last night, some members might be disappointed that you throw some setlist-spoilers in the corner here.

I gave the epic A View much time lately, listened to it over and over. To me, the part after the astonishing cello-section is the prettiest. It is so complex, full of rhythm changes and LaBrie delivers that part beautifully. It is aging rapidly to one of my favorites.

[cramx3]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

It's way better than IT for me.  I'd say it's close to the Count (depending on the day you ask me, I may say I like it better or not).

I really like all three songs.  Part of me wonders if A View was released on DT12 and IT was released on AVFTTOTW if I would like A View more.  I say that because part of me ranking it lower is just because it feels similar to these other epics in terms of song layout.  I really do like all three though.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

Hard disagree.  Illumination Theory is the best of the 3, and View absolutely slays Tuscany.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

Hard disagree.  Illumination Theory is the best of the 3, and View absolutely slays Tuscany.

   100%

[Trav]

I don't dislike it, it's a good song for sure, but it's hard to rate it higher than The Count of Tuscany or Illumination Theory

It's not better than Count, but it's definitely better than Theory in my book.

Hard disagree.  Illumination Theory is the best of the 3, and View absolutely slays Tuscany.

I've always found Illumination Theory to be a weaker epic. What is it that stands out to you? Anything in particular, or is it "I just like it more"? Cause that's totally understandable too.