2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[Stadler]

Thought of something this morning. When the Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years from 1996-2000 there were no headlines that read "Derek Jeter wins 4th World Series". Same with Aikman winning 3 SBs in 4 years or even when Montana got his 4th the headlines were "Forty Niners . . . ". The cultish behavior is a recent thing, where a subset of delirious fans discount 52/53 player's contributions and lay them all at the feet of one person who plays half the game. Shrugs.

It's not cultish, and I don't even like Brady.

Who the fuck else even played on those Patriot teams?  Brady was the only real star I can think of, except when he had Moss, and that awesome team didn't even win.  That's not the case with the Yankees, Cowboys, or 49ers teams you mentioned.

It's not fair to say they didn't win with MOss. They didn't win the Superb Owl, but they won 18 other games. More to the point, NE has always had a solid roster up until the last few years, and even recently they've had a stellar secondary. Brady has always benefited from people like Gronk, Welker, and Edelman. He's always benefited from having James White catching out of the backfield, or Blount or Dillon bowling over defenders. For most of his career he's benefited from having one of the top scoring D's and excellent ST. Just because they don't have 15 HOFers coming out of this era doesn't mean he didn't have a superb supporting cast for most of his time in NE.

Hey Barto, now that the Pats suck, who's your next favorite team gonna be? 

So this is where getting called out in P/R led you, eh? Fascinating.

Nah.  This goes back years when I found out you used to be a Dallas fan.  I thought you might jump ship again and go to where the weather is fair.

Fair enough. And for the record, my jumping ship had nothing to do with them sucking. Believe me, I've supported my fair share of crappy teams. I bailed on Dallas because I was disgusted over how they abandoned Wade Phillips. It's not that I have any great fondness for Wade as a HC (fantastic DC and an even better example of the Peter Principle in action), but the players hung him out to dry. His livelihood was on the line, and they refused to even try. Suddenly, Garrett comes aboard and they start winning again, like he was some magical elixir. Combine that with Jerry World and the go-go dancers and the party atmosphere and they're just not an organization worthy of any support. The Cowboy's aren't a football team. They're a circus designed to bring people into Jerry's big top.

I did say at the time that as soon as the last player from that lousy team of quitters was gone I'd consider rooting for them again. I think I'm one Sean Lee away from that mark, though I really haven't seen anything to convince me they're any less of a circus sideshow.

That assessment of Wade Phillips could not possibly be more accurate.

[El Barto]

So I totally don't get this Spot and Choose nonsense. For one thing, I think the NFL has already struck a perfect balance with regards to the coin toss in OT. The current setup is fine. The only people who are opposed to it are teams that have gotten burned because they're totally unbalanced, and their O didn't get the ball first. Learn to play D. But also, is there really anybody who doesn't understand the current process? They go through this lengthy explanation before every OT presumably for the benefit of people watching their first football game, and it's just not that complicated. But more importantly, is S&C actually less complicated?

From what I gather there's actually some strategy involved. I'm not sure I see it, but more importantly, I'm not sure how it's really going to be all that different than a coin toss, which is still going to matter regardless. Aren't Chiefs fans going to bitch just as much when their opponent marches 99 yards down field because they never got a try on offense?  Can somebody perhaps explain to me some strategy of how we might see something other than a team getting the ball after a pretty bad kick return?

[pg1067]

So I totally don't get this Spot and Choose nonsense. For one thing, I think the NFL has already struck a perfect balance with regards to the coin toss in OT. The current setup is fine. The only people who are opposed to it are teams that have gotten burned because they're totally unbalanced, and their O didn't get the ball first. Learn to play D. But also, is there really anybody who doesn't understand the current process? They go through this lengthy explanation before every OT presumably for the benefit of people watching their first football game, and it's just not that complicated. But more importantly, is S&C actually less complicated?

From what I gather there's actually some strategy involved. I'm not sure I see it, but more importantly, I'm not sure how it's really going to be all that different than a coin toss, which is still going to matter regardless. Aren't Chiefs fans going to bitch just as much when their opponent marches 99 yards down field because they never got a try on offense?  Can somebody perhaps explain to me some strategy of how we might see something other than a team getting the ball after a pretty bad kick return?

This is the first I've heard of this.  The first problem I have with the article is this:  "when you’ve got different sets of rules for regular season and playoffs — or when you have to put the rules onscreen before every overtime, just to explain yet again to the viewers at home what the hell’s happening — you’ve got a flawed system."  BULLSHIT.  The only difference between playoffs and regular season is the length of the OT, and that makes perfect sense.  Also, the NHL has different rules for playoffs and regular season, and that works great.  You simply cannot have regular season hockey games going on indefinitely, and the current system is a lot of fun.

As far as needing 1,120 words in the rulebook, that's a red herring and written by someone who obviously doesn't have a grasp on how rules for a multi-billion dollar enterprise have to be written.  Does the person who wrote this article really think that the "spot and choose" would require fewer words in the rule book or not require on-screen graphics to explain?  Shit no.  It would probably require more words to explain.

As for strategy, a lot of that would be removed if they went with the 7:30 "play as usual" concept that the article says Belichick favors.  If it's a sudden death thing, then yeah, there's more strategy involved, but not really.  I suspect it would end up where just about every "spot" team would choose a particular yard line (+/- 10 yards), so it would all look pretty standardized.  At the end of the day, the current system is fine.  It addressed the inequity of the old system, and it's very easy to understand.  Don't change what ain't broke.

[Stadler]

As someone who is not at all a fan of hyperbole (unless applied to my penis or the meal I cooked last night) this paragraph sent me into a seizure:

The NFL’s overtime rules run more than four times as long, 1120 words, and turn the simplest dang thing possible — how to figure out who wins a football game — into a bewildering array of directives and sub-articles so complicated that the IRS nods its approval.

You, Jay Busbee, must have the attention span of a 4 year old.

EDIT:  I kept reading, and after the spot and choose, how is that radically different than now?  You're still going to have to explain the spot and the choice, then you have to explain what happens after.  This part was a real turnoff:  One generally winning approach to poker is to always force your opponent to make an uncomfortable decision, and Spot and Choose does exactly that, every single overtime.   I'm tuning in for a football game, not a poker game; why would I want that?

[El Barto]

As for strategy, a lot of that would be removed if they went with the 7:30 "play as usual" concept that the article says Belichick favors.  If it's a sudden death thing, then yeah, there's more strategy involved, but not really.  I suspect it would end up where just about every "spot" team would choose a particular yard line (+/- 10 yards), so it would all look pretty standardized.  At the end of the day, the current system is fine.  It addressed the inequity of the old system, and it's very easy to understand.  Don't change what ain't broke.

I think the strategy will come down to whatever a statistician says will work best, and a few outlier coaches with their own ideas. I remember that moving the XP back to the 15 was supposed to create new strategy, and I sure don't see any difference. The team that spots will have their own idea, and probably 30 teams will be the same. The teams that choose will look at their chart and only switch to D beyond a certain point, and that'll only come into play with the two outlier teams. And remember, coaches can, and occasionally have, started OT on D.

[cramx3]

Interesting idea, but not something I would implement.  And the reason to implement this makes no sense, this is more confusing than the current rules.  Honestly, the way they changed the rules have made it much more fair and interesting IMO.  This doesn't need to be fixed and while occassionally you see a professional not know the rules for OT, that's on the individual not the rule book.  It's really not that complicated and it boggles my mind when a player doesn't know the rules.

[pg1067]

As for strategy, a lot of that would be removed if they went with the 7:30 "play as usual" concept that the article says Belichick favors.  If it's a sudden death thing, then yeah, there's more strategy involved, but not really.  I suspect it would end up where just about every "spot" team would choose a particular yard line (+/- 10 yards), so it would all look pretty standardized.  At the end of the day, the current system is fine.  It addressed the inequity of the old system, and it's very easy to understand.  Don't change what ain't broke.

I think the strategy will come down to whatever a statistician says will work best, and a few outlier coaches with their own ideas. I remember that moving the XP back to the 15 was supposed to create new strategy, and I sure don't see any difference. The team that spots will have their own idea, and probably 30 teams will be the same. The teams that choose will look at their chart and only switch to D beyond a certain point, and that'll only come into play with the two outlier teams. And remember, coaches can, and occasionally have, started OT on D.

There's two parts to this:  the "spot and choose" and whether or not it's sudden death.  If it's not sudden death, I could see a "spot" team selecting the defense's 1-yard line on the theory that they have a well above average goal line defense.  They think the most likely outcome will be a short field goal, but even if it's a touchdown, there's still 7:00 to be played.  If the "spot" team thinks it has the better offense, why not?  On the other hand, if it is a sudden death situation, then I think you would end up with 90+% of spotting teams choosing a spot that's somewhere between the offense's 20-30 yard line.  Either way, I don't see the point in tinkering with something to this extent when the current rule is just fine.

[cramx3]

Just to throw this out there, I'm sure it's not the popular choice for the NFL, but I actually love the way college football does overtime.  It gets super interesting when it comes to the 3rd OT and you have to go for 2pt on a TD.  I'd have no issue if the NFL adopted it personally, but I get why people would rather the current way which includes more of the standard football game.

[pg1067]

Just to throw this out there, I'm sure it's not the popular choice for the NFL, but I actually love the way college football does overtime.  It gets super interesting when it comes to the 3rd OT and you have to go for 2pt on a TD.  I'd have no issue if the NFL adopted it personally, but I get why people would rather the current way which includes more of the standard football game.

I don't watch minor league football, so I don't have any real perspective on what they do, but I'd prefer something that has as little deviation as possible from the "real" game.  Of course, as I mentioned earlier, I really like the current NHL system, so who knows.

[KevShmev]

Good for Dak for getting paid and duping the Cowboys into overpaying him, and LOL at the Cowboys for paying a good QB (see: not great) that much money. 

[TAC]

I'm shocked the Cowboys paid this.

[El Barto]

I'm shocked the Cowboys paid this.

I'm not. Dak is well liked down here. Certainly more than Romo was. Remember, the Cowboys exist to fill the Jerrydome, and Dak will help to do that.

[hunnus2000]

I'm shocked the Cowboys paid this.

You're shocked? You forgetting who owns the Cowboys? 

Dak was always going to get his money, the only question is how to structure a contract so they wouldn't short change themselves in order to build a championship team around him. Dak was not the problem with the Cowboys over the past couple of seasons, it was our inability to build a championship defense that's been our problem.

Fun fact - Dak is the ONLY QB from the 2016 draft still with the original team that drafted him and he is clearly the best QB from that draft.

[TAC]

Well, you guys would know the Dallas area better obviously.

[Stadler]

I'm shocked the Cowboys paid this.

You're shocked? You forgetting who owns the Cowboys? 

Dak was always going to get his money, the only question is how to structure a contract so they wouldn't short change themselves in order to build a championship team around him. Dak was not the problem with the Cowboys over the past couple of seasons, it was our inability to build a championship defense that's been our problem.

Fun fact - Dak is the ONLY QB from the 2016 draft still with the original team that drafted him and he is clearly the best QB from that draft.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I mean, I get the... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be dis...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.   

Hang on, I need a minute to... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I can't breath.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The Cowboys aren't even in the top ten, no, top 15 best contenders for a Champeenship.   When Jerry severed ties with Jimmy J. he signaled his absolute lack of clue on how to actually reach that goal.   I predicted then that Tony Romo would never see, let alone WIN, a Super Bowl and I repeat that prediction now, substituting Dak Prescott.

I'm pretty sure that TAC, Bart and I wuold have a better shot of building a Super Bowl winner, using a Ouiji board and a 12-sided die.

[hunnus2000]

Oh I don't disagree with any of the criticism about Jerry Jones and his ability to build a championship team. And I don't know if Dak will win a championship but he is their best option going forward. Dak's contract is more team friendly than people realize. Jerry's biggest flaw is that he forgets the Jimmy Johnson rule of championships are built in the trenches.

[TAC]

Dak's contract is more team friendly than people realize.

It is?

[KevShmev]

And I disagree that Dak is clearly the best QB of the 2016 draft.  It is still a tough call between Dak and Wentz.  Before 2020, there was no question that Wentz was better, but he regressed last season. However, that look like organizational failure, and I suspect he will return to form with the Colts. Time will tell.

[El Barto]

Jerry's biggest flaw is that he forgets the Jimmy Johnson rule of championships are built in the trenches.

This is a bang-on observation.

The problem is that trench battles aren't what Dallas fans want. Here's the thing. Dallas isn't a football city. They love the Cowboys but they don't really care about football itself. They want explosive offense and nothing else matters. This is best illustrated by the fact that during the glory days, the crowd would be deafening when Troy, Michael, and Emmett were on the field. Bring Deion out as a WR and it got even louder. As soon as the D came on they'd all go to get another beer and you could hear a pin drop. This is football in Dallas. None of this has changed. If Dak, Zeek, Cooper, and Lamb can put up big plays they'll buy tickets and watch the games, and that's what Jerry wants. It's a show, not a sport. And while winning is the best way to sell tickets, that goes right back to the trenches, which Jerry doesn't get.

[El Barto]

The Cowboys aren't even in the top ten, no, top 15 best contenders for a Champeenship.   When Jerry severed ties with Jimmy J. he signaled his absolute lack of clue on how to actually reach that goal.   I predicted then that Tony Romo would never see, let alone WIN, a Super Bowl and I repeat that prediction now, substituting Dak Prescott.

I'm pretty sure that TAC, Bart and I wuold have a better shot of building a Super Bowl winner, using a Ouiji board and a 12-sided die.

While you weren't, and probably aren't wrong, I don't think it was because of Romo or Dak. Either one of them could have been or can be a SB quarterback, just not with this organization.

[hunnus2000]

Dak's contract is more team friendly than people realize.

It is?

When you factor in the new TV contract which will increase the CAP then the deal looks a little more palatable. Also, Dak will only count around 21 million against the CAP this year and I think it has to do with a 66 million check they will write him tomorrow. Yes, Dak made off like a bandit but only Jerry knows what the projected league revenue will be because he has visibility to the TV negotiations that the players and their agents don't. It's possible that within a year Dak's salary won't even be top 5 in the league.

[TAC]

It's possible that within a year Dak's salary won't even be top 5 in the league.

That is fucked.

[King Postwhore]

It's possible that within a year Dak's salary won't even be top 5 in the league.

That is fucked.

I doubt it.  Name me 5 QB's that will make over 40 mil a year?  I've got 2.  Mahomes & Rodgers.  Brady will not get 40. Wilson just signed in 2019 a 4 year 129 mil contract. Watson is making 39 mil a year early in his new contract.

[Stadler]

The Cowboys aren't even in the top ten, no, top 15 best contenders for a Champeenship.   When Jerry severed ties with Jimmy J. he signaled his absolute lack of clue on how to actually reach that goal.   I predicted then that Tony Romo would never see, let alone WIN, a Super Bowl and I repeat that prediction now, substituting Dak Prescott.

I'm pretty sure that TAC, Bart and I wuold have a better shot of building a Super Bowl winner, using a Ouiji board and a 12-sided die.

While you weren't, and probably aren't wrong, I don't think it was because of Romo or Dak. Either one of them could have been or can be a SB quarterback, just not with this organization.

No, that's fair.  I don't argue that (except for the part that while some QBs can rise above their organization, these aren't two of them).  I'm a fan of Romo; if you could play with eras, I'd like to see him in his prime in New England now.   I was making more of a generalized statement.

On another front, I don't think Wentz is done at all.  He's another I wouldn't have minded in New England.

[hunnus2000]

It's possible that within a year Dak's salary won't even be top 5 in the league.

That is fucked.

I doubt it.  Name me 5 QB's that will make over 40 mil a year?  I've got 2.  Mahomes & Rodgers.  Brady will not get 40. Wilson just signed in 2019 a 4 year 129 mil contract. Watson is making 39 mil a year early in his new contract.

Kyler Murray
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Baker Mayfield
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow

Now you can argue if they are worth it or not but the market has just been reset.

[King Postwhore]

Within a year you said. I don't see any of them making that money.

[hunnus2000]

Within a year you said. I don't see any of them making that money.

OK - maybe not within a year but the 50 million $ QB is right around the corner. I predict that the NFL will have some sort of normalcy - meaning fans are back. One of these QB's will have a stellar year and a club will want to sign him, to a long-term deal because it's cheaper to do it now.

And to that point, the Cowboys tried to tie up Dak to 30 - 35 million a year 2 years ago but Dak balked because his camp figured that the price would only increase.

Dak for the win.

[King Postwhore]

50 mil will be Mahomes.  The others need to play at a playoff level to get that.  Still $35 mil for being average is a crazy amount of money.

[El Barto]

On another front, I don't think Wentz is done at all.  He's another I wouldn't have minded in New England.

I probably would have preferred Foles. The potential is there. He can stay on the field, unlike Wentz. There's no doubt he can handle the pressure. His problem is entirely mental. He thrives as a backup forced to start and he sucks as a number one. I think that's probably something a good coach can work out. It's also possible that he just needs the constant pressure that comes from being a scrub, and who better to put constant pressure on a player than Belichick. Just ask Lagarette Blount. 

[El Barto]

50 mil will be Mahomes.  The others need to play at a playoff level to get that.  Still $35 mil for being average is a crazy amount of money.

If you're calling Dak average I think you may be selling him short.

[hunnus2000]

50 mil will be Mahomes.  The others need to play at a playoff level to get that.  Still $35 mil for being average is a crazy amount of money.

Oh I completely agree about the salaries!

One thing that TB did to deserve a pat in the back was not to try and break the bank with every contract so the team could sign quality players. At least that's my perspective from a distance.
 

[King Postwhore]

In the end it it hurt him.  Imagine being Tom Brady and after wining 5 Superbowls and losing one in the 2017 season when you passed for over 500 yards and you still had to take a 1 year deal with incentives?  In the end he was fed up with that, not having a voice and wanted to go elsewhere.  There are stories that after the 2017 season he wanted out and Kraft talked him out of it.

[El Barto]

Imagine being Tom Brady and after wining 5 Superbowls and losing one in the 2017 season when you passed for over 500 yards and you still had to take a 1 year deal with incentives?

OK. Regarded by damn near everybody as the best ever. Respected by everybody, including the people that hate your guts. Playing for the GOAT coach. Adored by an entire region of the USA. Worth 250 million. Married to a trophy wife. The trophy wife is worth 650 million. Great relationship with the trophy wife and the kids (and the ex wife). Only 40 years old and free to spend the rest of your life doing whateverthefuck you want. Yeah, I'd say STFU and get on with your charmed life.

[Stadler]

On another front, I don't think Wentz is done at all.  He's another I wouldn't have minded in New England.

I probably would have preferred Foles. The potential is there. He can stay on the field, unlike Wentz. There's no doubt he can handle the pressure. His problem is entirely mental. He thrives as a backup forced to start and he sucks as a number one. I think that's probably something a good coach can work out. It's also possible that he just needs the constant pressure that comes from being a scrub, and who better to put constant pressure on a player than Belichick. Just ask Lagarette Blount. 

I bet on Chicago early on in our pick 'em league and we talked and you pointed out that Foles wasn't good.  And you kind of changed my mind for me on that; he's streaky as well as being in his own head.   I'm with you, though; Wentz is fragile and there's no place for fragile in the New England scheme.

[King Postwhore]

Imagine being Tom Brady and after wining 5 Superbowls and losing one in the 2017 season when you passed for over 500 yards and you still had to take a 1 year deal with incentives?

OK. Regarded by damn near everybody as the best ever. Respected by everybody, including the people that hate your guts. Playing for the GOAT coach. Adored by an entire region of the USA. Worth 250 million. Married to a trophy wife. The trophy wife is worth 650 million. Great relationship with the trophy wife and the kids (and the ex wife). Only 40 years old and free to spend the rest of your life doing whateverthefuck you want. Yeah, I'd say STFU and get on with your charmed life.

You and I the common man thinks that.  To him, in his mind, he was tired being slighted in his mind.

BB not backing him in Deflategate ( Ask Tom)
His owner backing down not fighting for him.
This while dealing privately with his mom's cancer
Taking a 4 game suspension for what amounted as no proff. (The league admitted it in court)
The fight became about the CBA

The man always take this as ammo.  So does it surprise you he had enough and ysed this this past year?

You and I say, get over it, you lived a charmed life but in his mind, he was fucked.