2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[TheCountOfNYC]

When I first started to get really into football, the Chargers were the second team that I really got into. One of the first guys who I remembered really liking was Vincent Jackson. He worked hard and avoided drama for the most part. Him paired with Malcolm Floyd, Antonio Gates, LaDainian Tomlinson, and of course Philip Rivers was awesome to watch.

[KevShmev]

Few fantasy players I have ever owned have driven me nuts more than Vincent Jackson - he was the king of having like three weeks of 2-33-0 in a row and then having 8-160-3 the next.  R.I.P.

[hunnus2000]

Carson Wentz traded to Colts for a 3rd round and conditional second round pick.

WOW! How the mighty have fallen.........

[King Postwhore]

His huge contract plus and opt out in 1 season is why he went for so little.

Watson will go for a crazy amount of picks/players.  He just signed a new contract in his mid 20's.

[Nick]

Being from the Philly area but not an Eagles fan I think gives me a cool look at the team. I have to say it's absolutely incredible how they've gone from Super Bowl winners, and absolute legends to a dumpster fire in which much of the coaching staff, many players, and ownership have all been deemed awful in so few years.

I gotta say it's one tremendous hit how they gave Wentz so much power (and then a contract to match) only to move on. Just a huge failure.

[Stadler]

Being from the Philly area but not an Eagles fan I think gives me a cool look at the team. I have to say it's absolutely incredible how they've gone from Super Bowl winners, and absolute legends to a dumpster fire in which much of the coaching staff, many players, and ownership have all been deemed awful in so few years.

I gotta say it's one tremendous hit how they gave Wentz so much power (and then a contract to match) only to move on. Just a huge failure.

Having lived in Philly for a number of years, and having watched them from not so far for many more growing up a Giants fan, it's kind of par for the course.  A Super Bowl win is never a "fluke", but theirs is as close as they come.   Reid was never able to cross the threshold, even with good-ish players, they supposedly found the savior in Chip Kelly, but no dice there, and the Pederson/Wentz combo reverted to form pretty quickly.

I do work on both cars and electronics as a hobby; fixing both are pretty simple:  if something is broken, you change out one part/piece at a time until you get a different result.   If you keep changing out the same two or three parts/pieces, and you DON'T get that different result, you need to try OTHER pieces.   Not that it will ever happen (I can't name one time in the history of pro sports where it has), but at some point, Roseman and Lurie have to look in the mirror. They're not winning any more with Jalen Hurts than they have in the past couple years with Wentz.

[faizoff]

I haven't kept up with Eagles news in recent years and am kinda surprised they crashed so soon after their SuperBowl win which was just a short 3 years ago. I figured that Wentz was pretty good in the team and just kept getting injured a lot and that is why they let Foles go.

Speaking of Philly, found this interview with LeSean McCoy intriguing, his take on what Brady brought to Tampa and leaving Belichick and the Pats was what he expected to happen once Tom was gone. It was interesting to learn how "dialed in" Brady is even at age 43. I guess you need to be that super dialed in if you want to win 7 rings.

[T-ski]

JJ Watt goes to the Cards.

[Stadler]

What's the thought about Russell Wilson?  I've read a couple articles about his discontent, but I have to say, I'm surprised at that.  I thought him to be above that so to speak.

[TheCountOfNYC]

What's the thought about Russell Wilson?  I've read a couple articles about his discontent, but I have to say, I'm surprised at that.  I thought him to be above that so to speak.

I think there’s a difference between “I wish I made more money” and “I wish I got hit less and also had a little more control over this offense”. His issues seem to be with management not putting a great offensive line in front of him and Pete Carroll not letting him call more plays despite the fact that whenever he’s had the opportunity to do so he’s been successful. He feels like the powers at be aren’t putting him or his team in the best position to succeed.

[gmillerdrake]

I think there’s a difference between “I wish I made more money” and “I wish I got hit less and also had a little more control over this offense”. His issues seem to be with management not putting a great offensive line in front of him and Pete Carroll not letting him call more plays despite the fact that whenever he’s had the opportunity to do so he’s been successful. He feels like the powers at be aren’t putting him or his team in the best position to succeed.

That's what I've gleaned from it. I mean, KC goes directly to Mahomees and asks who he'd like to see drafted.....Tampa lets Tom Brady do whatever the F he wants.....Big Ben does whatever the hell he wants. I don't think Wilson is out of line at all.

[Stadler]

I'm a fan; I think he's one of the best QBs in the league; if I'm Pete Carroll, I'm making sure I'm spending quality time with my QB over the next few weeks.   I have faith that Carroll knows how to handle this, but he certainly has something to handle.

[KevShmev]

They showed Wilson at the Super Bowl watching it with Goodell (I think), and he had to see the protection Brady was getting and thought, "Why does my team never get me protection like that?"  He has been the good soldier for many years now, and I don't blame him for calling out the organization.

[Cool Chris]

It certainly is blowing up the radio waves around here. With this and the Mariners' President's comments, there has been a lot to talk about, considering we have an NFL team that got bounced in the WC round, a MLB team who hasn't made the playoffs in 20 years, no NBA team, and no NHL team till next season.

I am not too invested to care enough to read in to it, but there is definitely something beneath the surface brewing.

... Pete Carroll not letting him call more plays despite the fact that whenever he’s had the opportunity to do so he’s been successful.

Let's not go too far. He's not infallible, and while he was tearing it up the first 8 games this season, when he had the chance to "cook" he couldn't manage to make toast without burning it.

[Dublagent66]

Thought of something this morning. When the Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years from 1996-2000 there were no headlines that read "Derek Jeter wins 4th World Series". Same with Aikman winning 3 SBs in 4 years or even when Montana got his 4th the headlines were "Forty Niners . . . ". The cultish behavior is a recent thing, where a subset of delirious fans discount 52/53 player's contributions and lay them all at the feet of one person who plays half the game. Shrugs.

It's not cultish, and I don't even like Brady.

Who the fuck else even played on those Patriot teams?  Brady was the only real star I can think of, except when he had Moss, and that awesome team didn't even win.  That's not the case with the Yankees, Cowboys, or 49ers teams you mentioned.

It's not fair to say they didn't win with MOss. They didn't win the Superb Owl, but they won 18 other games. More to the point, NE has always had a solid roster up until the last few years, and even recently they've had a stellar secondary. Brady has always benefited from people like Gronk, Welker, and Edelman. He's always benefited from having James White catching out of the backfield, or Blount or Dillon bowling over defenders. For most of his career he's benefited from having one of the top scoring D's and excellent ST. Just because they don't have 15 HOFers coming out of this era doesn't mean he didn't have a superb supporting cast for most of his time in NE.

Hey Barto, now that the Pats suck, who's your next favorite team gonna be? 

[King Postwhore]

[TAC]

 

[El Barto]

Thought of something this morning. When the Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years from 1996-2000 there were no headlines that read "Derek Jeter wins 4th World Series". Same with Aikman winning 3 SBs in 4 years or even when Montana got his 4th the headlines were "Forty Niners . . . ". The cultish behavior is a recent thing, where a subset of delirious fans discount 52/53 player's contributions and lay them all at the feet of one person who plays half the game. Shrugs.

It's not cultish, and I don't even like Brady.

Who the fuck else even played on those Patriot teams?  Brady was the only real star I can think of, except when he had Moss, and that awesome team didn't even win.  That's not the case with the Yankees, Cowboys, or 49ers teams you mentioned.

It's not fair to say they didn't win with MOss. They didn't win the Superb Owl, but they won 18 other games. More to the point, NE has always had a solid roster up until the last few years, and even recently they've had a stellar secondary. Brady has always benefited from people like Gronk, Welker, and Edelman. He's always benefited from having James White catching out of the backfield, or Blount or Dillon bowling over defenders. For most of his career he's benefited from having one of the top scoring D's and excellent ST. Just because they don't have 15 HOFers coming out of this era doesn't mean he didn't have a superb supporting cast for most of his time in NE.

Hey Barto, now that the Pats suck, who's your next favorite team gonna be? 

So this is where getting called out in P/R led you, eh? Fascinating.

I've said all along I'm a Belichick fan. To a lesser extent, Bob Kraft. That hasn't changed. When they're gone my loyalties may, or may not change. I have grown fond the organization. Also, I don't think we're quite to the "sucking" point just yet, except when compared to 20 years of utter domination. NE will be better on both sides of the ball next year. Their record will reflect that and they'll compete for, and quite possibly win the division. If they don't win the super bowl then people will still say they suck. It is what it is.

[Stadler]

What do you make of the "Belichick is still in love with Cam Newton!" stories coming out of Boston?   I think he might LIKE the idea of Newton generally, but he has to know he's not winning anything big or long term with Camshaft under center.   He MIGHT be a Taysom Hill kind of guy, but even that is one-dimensional. 

I think this is Belichick's way of saying "Nothing to see here.  Move along, move along!"

[King Postwhore]

That's Bill not saying anything bad on a vet he likes so he doesn't damage his chance to go to another team. 

[Stadler]

That's Bill not saying anything bad on a vet he likes so he doesn't damage his chance to go to another team.

That's a good point I hadn't thought of.

[El Barto]

I think Bill really does like him an awful lot. I get the impression that he doesn't value the QB position as much as most coaches. He sees the whole shebang as a team effort, and with the 51 guys, NE can win with Cam under center. The reports are that he's concerned about Cam's arm strength, but pretty much nothing else, and that sounds about right. My concern was that Cam, and by extension NE, was completely one dimensional. With a receiver or two to threaten defenses, and even a marginal improvement from Cam, that should change. 

[King Postwhore]

I think it's really about his arm strength El Barto.  Cam needs his arm because he's slightly slower are reading the D.  No fault of his.  His legs were dynamite and allowed him to get out of tough stations fast.   Cam throwing now with pressure is off too.  I agree they are not far off from 10-6 - 11-5.  Can Cam improve?  I'm not sure it's about improvement with his arm issues.

[hunnus2000]

I think Cam is washed up.

[El Barto]

I think Cam is washed up.

His arm's week, and he's got the pocket awareness of Hellen Keller, but I'm not sure about washed up. He may be, but I'm not sold on that just yet.

[pg1067]

I think Cam is washed up.

His arm's week, and he's got the pocket awareness of Hellen Keller, but I'm not sure about washed up. He may be, but I'm not sold on that just yet.

 

[King Postwhore]

He was out basically a whole year the year before and then signed very late last year.  Add the way teams practice during this pandemic that didn't help him in any sort of way.  I still think his arm is an issue.

[Stadler]

I think Cam is washed up.

His arm's week, and he's got the pocket awareness of Hellen Keller, but I'm not sure about washed up. He may be, but I'm not sold on that just yet.

Hmmm.   I don't know either, but even if he isn't washed up, IMO, Cam Newton is NEVER winning a Super Bowl with or without Bill.  I think it's just too easy to scheme him.  So what's the plan?   Keep him another year and see if a draft pick gives you a woody? 

[El Barto]

I think Cam is washed up.

His arm's week, and he's got the pocket awareness of Hellen Keller, but I'm not sure about washed up. He may be, but I'm not sold on that just yet.

Hmmm.   I don't know either, but even if he isn't washed up, IMO, Cam Newton is NEVER winning a Super Bowl with or without Bill.  I think it's just too easy to scheme him.  So what's the plan?   Keep him another year and see if a draft pick gives you a woody?

I don't think that's a plan, simply because this is the best draft pick they'll have. Even if they keep cam and he doesn't improve, the rest of the team will elevate them a few wins, and perhaps a playoff berth. If they can't get their QB with 15, they're not going to with the the 23rd  or higher next year.

Also, I think they could win a SB with Cam. Lesser QBs have done it. I wouldn't bet on it, but in this regard I think Bill is right. Their are 52 guys on the team, and while one may be the most important, he's not the linchpin.

[hunnus2000]

IMO - Cam never had the right head for ball. When things are going great, he's right there doing the Superman thing but when there's a little adversity, he is sulking with a towel over his head. And yes - there were players around the league that were taking cheap shots at him and his helmet. When he gave an interview and said that football was no longer fun for him, I can certainly see why.

However, after his 2020 body of work, there is no reason to think that he will be anything but below average for any team. He's been trending down for years. If I were a GM, I would definitely stay away from him.

[El Barto]

IMO - Cam never had the right head for ball. When things are going great, he's right there doing the Superman thing but when there's a little adversity, he is sulking with a towel over his head. And yes - there were players around the league that were taking cheap shots at him and his helmet. When he gave an interview and said that football was no longer fun for him, I can certainly see why.

However, after his 2020 body of work, there is no reason to think that he will be anything but below average for any team. He's been trending down for years. If I were a GM, I would definitely stay away from him.

This may well be all true. I just don't feel right using the 2020 NFL season as a final exam for anybody. Everything was just too abnormal.

[Dublagent66]

Thought of something this morning. When the Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years from 1996-2000 there were no headlines that read "Derek Jeter wins 4th World Series". Same with Aikman winning 3 SBs in 4 years or even when Montana got his 4th the headlines were "Forty Niners . . . ". The cultish behavior is a recent thing, where a subset of delirious fans discount 52/53 player's contributions and lay them all at the feet of one person who plays half the game. Shrugs.

It's not cultish, and I don't even like Brady.

Who the fuck else even played on those Patriot teams?  Brady was the only real star I can think of, except when he had Moss, and that awesome team didn't even win.  That's not the case with the Yankees, Cowboys, or 49ers teams you mentioned.

It's not fair to say they didn't win with MOss. They didn't win the Superb Owl, but they won 18 other games. More to the point, NE has always had a solid roster up until the last few years, and even recently they've had a stellar secondary. Brady has always benefited from people like Gronk, Welker, and Edelman. He's always benefited from having James White catching out of the backfield, or Blount or Dillon bowling over defenders. For most of his career he's benefited from having one of the top scoring D's and excellent ST. Just because they don't have 15 HOFers coming out of this era doesn't mean he didn't have a superb supporting cast for most of his time in NE.

Hey Barto, now that the Pats suck, who's your next favorite team gonna be? 

So this is where getting called out in P/R led you, eh? Fascinating.

Nah.  This goes back years when I found out you used to be a Dallas fan.  I thought you might jump ship again and go to where the weather is fair.

[El Barto]

Thought of something this morning. When the Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years from 1996-2000 there were no headlines that read "Derek Jeter wins 4th World Series". Same with Aikman winning 3 SBs in 4 years or even when Montana got his 4th the headlines were "Forty Niners . . . ". The cultish behavior is a recent thing, where a subset of delirious fans discount 52/53 player's contributions and lay them all at the feet of one person who plays half the game. Shrugs.

It's not cultish, and I don't even like Brady.

Who the fuck else even played on those Patriot teams?  Brady was the only real star I can think of, except when he had Moss, and that awesome team didn't even win.  That's not the case with the Yankees, Cowboys, or 49ers teams you mentioned.

It's not fair to say they didn't win with MOss. They didn't win the Superb Owl, but they won 18 other games. More to the point, NE has always had a solid roster up until the last few years, and even recently they've had a stellar secondary. Brady has always benefited from people like Gronk, Welker, and Edelman. He's always benefited from having James White catching out of the backfield, or Blount or Dillon bowling over defenders. For most of his career he's benefited from having one of the top scoring D's and excellent ST. Just because they don't have 15 HOFers coming out of this era doesn't mean he didn't have a superb supporting cast for most of his time in NE.

Hey Barto, now that the Pats suck, who's your next favorite team gonna be? 

So this is where getting called out in P/R led you, eh? Fascinating.

Nah.  This goes back years when I found out you used to be a Dallas fan.  I thought you might jump ship again and go to where the weather is fair.

Fair enough. And for the record, my jumping ship had nothing to do with them sucking. Believe me, I've supported my fair share of crappy teams. I bailed on Dallas because I was disgusted over how they abandoned Wade Phillips. It's not that I have any great fondness for Wade as a HC (fantastic DC and an even better example of the Peter Principle in action), but the players hung him out to dry. His livelihood was on the line, and they refused to even try. Suddenly, Garrett comes aboard and they start winning again, like he was some magical elixir. Combine that with Jerry World and the go-go dancers and the party atmosphere and they're just not an organization worthy of any support. The Cowboy's aren't a football team. They're a circus designed to bring people into Jerry's big top.

I did say at the time that as soon as the last player from that lousy team of quitters was gone I'd consider rooting for them again. I think I'm one Sean Lee away from that mark, though I really haven't seen anything to convince me they're any less of a circus sideshow.

[cramx3]

Love the Sean Lee reference, a great Penn State LB who has continued to be the type of player and person to represent my alma mater even though he plays for one of my most hated teams.

[El Barto]

Love the Sean Lee reference, a great Penn State LB who has continued to be the type of player and person to represent my alma mater even though he plays for one of my most hated teams.

Yeah, well, 2010 Sean Lee can eat a bag of dicks.