Author Topic: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread  (Read 108991 times)

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Online Mladen

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Promised Land (1994)
« Reply #560 on: July 31, 2017, 11:38:23 AM »
Promise land does sound timeless, it's very well produced. Not dated at all.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Promised Land (1994)
« Reply #561 on: July 31, 2017, 05:55:58 PM »
Like I said, this thread prompted me to revisit the old Queensryche stuff that I actually discovered back in 2010 and have only occasionally returned to.

Wow.

First of all, Operation: mindcrime has always been one of my favorite albums. It's great and I've never let that slip from my mind. I reminded myself of how much I like Rage for order as well, and the debut album has its share of fantastic songs. Empire was always a mixed bag for me, since I never took to their accesible, slightly glam influenced style, but listening to it now, I find the songs better than I initially did.

The big surprise, however, turned out to be Promised land. Damaged has always been my favorite Ryche tune, but I just now realized that the streak of songs from Disconnected up to the closer is brillant. All absolutely remarkable tracks. Some experimental, some traditional rock tunes, some ballads. It's such an unbelievable album that I might rank it right behind Operation: mindcrime.

Kudos to Samsara, one of my favorite posters around here, for starting the thread and inspiring me to give this band another listen, and also to guys like Bosk, KevSchmev, TAC and other Queensryche experts for all the interesting information that educades slightly younger fans around here. Bring on Hear in the now frontier and all the other stuff that's coming up. I'm finally going to rip into those albums.

I appreciate the shout-out  :tup :tup, but I am by no means a Queensryche expert compared to Samsara or bosk1. 

TAC is another story... :biggrin: :lol

Offline TAC

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Promised Land (1994)
« Reply #562 on: July 31, 2017, 05:57:53 PM »
 :lol

I resemble that remark!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #563 on: August 02, 2017, 08:43:39 AM »
Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)


Lineup:

Geoff Tate – Lead vocals
Chris DeGarmo – Lead & rhythm guitars/vocals
Michael Wilton – Lead & rhythm guitars
Eddie Jackson – Bass/vocals
Scott Rockenfield – Drums/percussion

Overview

1996 was a huge turning point for Queensryche. Fresh off of what was likely considered their first commercial “flop” of a record, Queensryche was under pressure to regain a foothold in modern hard rock music. The problem? Allegedly, the band was not motivated to start work on a new album. Tate and Rockenfield had remarried and were focused on the home front. So, when EMI started to push Queensryche for music, it was DeGarmo who once again attempted to rally the band together and get on the same page.

This time around, however, instead of looking inward for inspiration, Queensryche looked at the success bands in their neighborhood (Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Pearl Jam) had experienced over the past few years, and began experimenting. The result was Hear in the Now Frontier. The 14-track effort was released on March 25, 1997, on the strength of the lead single, “Sign of the Times.” From a sonic perspective, the album was unlike anything Queensryche had ever attempted. The production was very dry, and the songs were stripped of the expansive atmosphere fans had come to expect with Queensryche.

In short, Hear in the Now Frontier was Queensryche's attempt to capture the essence of grunge and alternative rock in an effort to get back on mainstream rock fans' radars, and recapture some momentum.

“Sign of the Times” initially did very well for the band on rock radio, as did the follow-up single, “You.” But the success was short-lived, as EMI Records went bankrupt and closed its doors less than a month after Hear in the Now Frontier was released. When that happened, radio station programmers were no longer lobbied to play Queensryche, and both songs subsequently dropped off of playlists. As a result, Hear in the Now Frontier quickly disappeared from the charts, and while the band followed through on a summer tour in America to support the record, they had no record label to financially back them. Adding insult to injury, their longtime management team, Q-Prime, also bailed on them.

So, instead of a long album campaign, Queensryche played to half-filled venues with the remnants of a not completed marketing campaign and found themselves (at the conclusion of the tour) in search of a new label, management, and direction.

The Songs

Queensryche decided to bring in a new voice behind the glass to helm the Hear in the Now Frontier sessions, going with Toby Wright (Alice in Chains) instead of James “Jimbo” Barton. Wright was an A-list engineer and mixer at the time, having been at the forefront of mid-1990s hard rock. As mentioned earlier, Queensryche was focused on a more stripped down, bare bones approach, and felt Wright was the perfect choice to capture what the band was going for.

From a writing standpoint, Queensryche had always been a band that did extensive pre-production, working over songs a great deal before going in to record them properly. DeGarmo and the band elected to take a different route with Hear in the Now Frontier. Most of the songs were demoed, and then recorded without much re-working. The idea was not only to work faster, but to embrace a looser, more natural feel. At the time, it was completely opposite of how Queensryche operated.

The results were at best, mixed. The rawer sound never really appealed to Queensryche's core fanbase. In addition, while past records from the band had a filler track or two, Hear in the Now Frontier was bloated, with good musical ideas never seemingly fleshed-out properly. Quite simply, Queensryche stripped away the elements of what made them distinct as a band. It was, unfortunately, a huge mistake and one the group ultimately never recovered from.

To be fair, however, there were some bright spots on Hear in the Now Frontier. Lyrically, the record was arguably one of Queensryche's finest, with the usual balance of social commentary and personal issues combined with alternating direct and vague styles. And some songs have really stood the test of time.

For example, “spOOL” is regularly touted as the best song from the record. The appreciation for it is not surprising, as it harkens back to the darker, more layered approach the band Queensryche used in the past, and likely would be right at home on Promised Land or Empire. The uplifting ballad, “Some People Fly,” also maintains some popularity among fans, as does the hard rocking “Hit the Black.”

Taking a deeper dive into the performances on Hear in the Now Frontier, the intricate guitar work is a clear standout. Make no mistake – despite the style of the songs embracing a more alternative and grunge meets hard rock direction, DeGarmo's lead work is distinct and noteworthy. For example, the outro solo in the creepy “Hero” could be one of his finest recorded moments. The harmonized solo with Wilton in “You,” lifts an otherwise repetitive song to new heights. In addition, DeGarmo's slide guitar in the uplifting “The Voice Inside” is captivating.

For every highlight, however, there were multiple duds. Songs such as “Anytime/Anywhere” and its sexually-charged lyrics were cringe-worthy. Also regrettable was “All I Want.” The song is an off-center love song of sorts (listen and you'll hear that it's not your standard ballad) with a Beatles-like vibe. If that wasn't different enough for Queensryche, DeGarmo took lead vocals on the track. While he does an admirable job, the moment Tate comes in to sing background, you can tell how much stronger Tate's voice is, which ultimately undermines the track.

In a nutshell, Hear in the Now Frontier has way more half-baked ideas than gems, and is generally referred to by fans as one of Queensryche's worst efforts.

In addition to the two officially released singles, “The Voice Inside” and “spOOL” were promotional singles, and rumored to have been the next tunes released to radio...before EMI went belly-up. Check out some art here:



Song notes: David Ragsdale (of Kansas) plays violin on “Sign of the Times.” For more on that tune, and the meaning behind it, check out www.anybodylistening.net/hearinthenowfrontier.html.  In addition, the sound effect of someone taking a picture at the end of "Get a Life" was misplaced. It was supposed to be at the beginning of the song.

B-Sides

The list of true b-sides for Hear in the Now Frontier is limited. Of note is the quite popular “Chasing Blue Sky,” which features a harmonica solo and is generally thought of as one of this album cycle's best tracks. It was also recorded by Rockenfield and his songwriting partner guitarist Paul Speer (using a different singer) for their side project record/soundtrack called Televoid that was released later in 1997. The soundtrack would ultimately earn Rockenfield/Speer a Grammy nomination for best long-form video.

There was also a track titled “Tomorrow Begins Today,” which was initially written by Michael Wilton. Queensryche elected not to record the song, and Wilton ultimately gave it to a local artist by the name of Aury Moore (Pamela “Suite Sister Mary” Moore's sister), who re-rewrote and released the track as “Breakin' Me,” on a solo album. Wilton's demo version of the song has never been released or surfaced in any form.

Other b-sides from the record were live versions of songs performed on the MTV Unplugged sessions.

Pre-Tour Appearances

Although not discussed much in the Promised Land write-up, Queensryche performed a handful of warm up promotional dates in Europe in the fall of 1994. They went over so well, that the band elected to do one stateside for Hear in the Now Frontier. Dubbed “The VLA Show” by fans, Queensryche played a 90-minute gig on June 5, 1997, in Sorroco, New Mexico, right next to the very large array satellite dishes, “beaming” their show into both the “now” and “final” frontiers.

The show was dubbed a “dress rehearsal” for the tour, and fans who attended received special certificates signed by the band. See https://www.anybodylistening.net/6-5-97.html for the setlist, photos, and an image of the certificate.

The VLA show (the first eight songs of it) was broadcasted live nationally in the United States, and a few bootlegs have surfaced over the years with the recording.

A much rarer recording took place two days earlier back in Washington state. When Queensryche appeared on KISW DJ Bob Rivers' “Bob's Garage” show, featuring an unplugged performance. The band performed “Bridge,” “Silent Lucidity,” and “Some People Fly” live. That set the stage for a number of acoustic radio show appearances throughout Queensryche's summer tour. The show was also a historic one for Queensryche, as it was engineered by former Tate MYTH bandmate Kelly Gray, who would ultimately fill a much bigger role for Queensryche in the not too distant future...

Touring

The Hear in the Now FronTOUR began in earnest on June 17, 1997, in Rapid City, S.D. It was the band's shortest headliner-level support tour (starting with the Empire tour, not including the end of the Operation: Mindcrime tour), clocking in at just two months on the road.The tour concluded on Aug. 17, in San Antonio, Texas. Staging included video screens and a giant inflatable ear. It was fairly stripped down given the preceding two tours, and for good reason – without a label, Queensryche (by itself) financed the entire two months on the road.

Note: Tate would generally acknowledge the weird ear on stage by calling it “something left over from the Mike Tyson fight,” referencing the championship bout that summer where Tyson bit off a piece of Evander Holyfield's ear in the ring.

Setlist-wise, Queensryche's normal set (they had two sets, with a shorter one used during the period of Geoff's illness. More on that later...) was generally 24 tracks in length, with a running time of just under two hours. The band made sure to play half of Hear in the Now Frontier (seven tracks) live, along with a smattering of hits from every record in Queensryche's catalog...except for Rage for Order. That record was ignored entirely, except for a show or two in August 1997, where they played “Walk in the Shadows.” Queensryche also played “The Killing Words” once acoustically on July 29, 1997 in Buffalo. If memory serves, this was apparently fulfilling a promise made to a fan at an in-store signing a day or two beforehand.

On July 19, 1997, however, the tour took a turn for the worse. Sitting backstage in Columbus, Ohio, Tate came down with a horrendous summer cold, blowing out his voice. Queensryche took the stage and got mid-way through “You” (the fifth song in the set) before Tate walked off the stage. The band stopped playing, and after a few minutes, DeGarmo came out and explained how sick Geoff was and apologized, but they'd be unable to continue.

For the first time (as far as anyone could remember in the band) in its career, Queensryche had to cancel two shows due to illness. Planned gigs in Dayton and Cleveland were cancelled. Tate got back on-stage for a second night booked in Cleveland (July 22 at the Blossom Music Center), but with a shortened setlist (they dropped four or five songs), and having swapped in “Della Brown” for “Hit the Black.”

It took over a week for Tate to recover enough to perform the band's usual setlist. They returned to it on July 30, 1997, when Queensryche performed at Jones Beach on Long Island.

After the North American tour concluded, Queensryche had a week's worth of South American dates to play in December 1997. Those dates marked the end of all support for Hear in the Now Frontier, and marked another, more serious change in the band.

Chris DeGarmo's Departure


Once the North American run in support of Hear in the Now Frontier concluded, the band went its separate ways for a few months. It was during this time that Chris DeGarmo made the decision to leave the band. To be clear, DeGarmo has never publicly revealed his reasons for leaving Queensryche. What follows is speculation based on 20 years of fact-gathering and reports from those close to DeGarmo and the band...

DeGarmo had been having thoughts on leaving the band since the Empire days (remember the “Dark Empire” article referenced in the Empire discussion earlier). With all the changes Queensryche had endured since that time (e.g. the issues with Tate after Empire, the new marriages and changing relationships in the band) things were beginning to take their toll on the guitarist. Making things worse was EMI Records folding and Q-Prime dumping Queensryche, which left the band completely on its own after two consecutive unsuccessful albums.

With Queensryche needing to begin anew in every regard, no one in the band (according to various people close to them) offered to help shoulder some of the load, either creatively or business-wise. They all allegedly just assumed that DeGarmo would handle it like he always did (he was president of the band's corporation). This added to the pressure already on Chris. Faced with that, and allegedly his disdain for how Tate's new wife (the current Susan) was (according to people with ties to the group) trying to needle her way into band operations (she took over for Michael Wilton's mother as head of the fan club in 1997) and the issues that may create with Tate moving forward, DeGarmo was clearly frustrated. Compounding everything was Chris' own family life. As mentioned earlier, DeGarmo's father left Chris, his brother, and his mother early in their life, and Chris did not want to be an absentee father and husband during his children's formative years.

So, instead of fighting with the band (and in some cases, their spouses) over Queensryche's business affairs and future, and having to do all the legwork in finding new management and a new label, DeGarmo decided to leave Queensryche. He allegedly told the band a couple months after the North American tour ended. Later on, Kelly Gray (mentioned earlier) recalled doing some wiring and home studio installation at DeGarmo's house at the time, under the premise that he (Gray) would be playing a production/engineering role on Queensryche's next record, and Gray said DeGarmo did not say a word regarding his intent to leave the band.

Once DeGarmo announced his intentions to the band, it likely made for an awkward trip to South America, where Queensryche was contractually obligated to play in December 1997. They fulfilled those dates, and then announced in early 1998 that DeGarmo had left the band. The announcement was made online and to various media outlets.

Queensryche, as many would soon find out, would never be the same...

Note: To repeat, the above is culled from generally what is known from the rumor mill and assorted musings from those close to DeGarmo and the band. I did my best to streamline it and leave out some of the more personal details that read more like tabloid fodder. DeGarmo, to his credit, has never publicly addressed his split with Queensryche, and always speaks of his former bandmates in the best light possible. The above is purely connecting the dots of various bits of information.

A quick word on DeGarmo, post-1997: DeGarmo served as Alice in Chains guitarist/singer Jerry Cantrell's second guitarist in Cantrell's solo band in 1998 (on a summer/fall tour supporting Cantrell's Boggy Depot album). During that time, Chris also earned higher instrument ratings that enabled him to become a full-time charter, pilot, and later, an airline (not commercial, think Fed Ex) pilot. It is rumored the latter is his current position.

This isn't the last word on DeGarmo, however. Stay tuned for more on Chris and his involvement with Queensryche as we move on in this discography discussion.

Samsara's top-three from HITNF: spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside

Next up: The Kelly Gray Era (1998-2001, featuring Q2k and Live Evolution)
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Online MirrorMask

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #564 on: August 02, 2017, 09:20:23 AM »
Once again an interesting read.

In a sense this was the beginning of the end, and I remember never really liking this album. I dig however Sign of the Times. Also, what the title is supposed to mean?  :D
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Offline T-ski

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #565 on: August 02, 2017, 09:37:59 AM »
album should be re-named "The Beginning of the End".

total shock was my initial reaction upon first listen, which turned into confusion, which ultimately turned to disappointment.

one of the bigger music let downs I can remember.
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Offline Mebert78

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #566 on: August 02, 2017, 09:47:27 AM »
Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
It took over a week for Tate to recover enough to perform the band's usual setlist. They returned to it on July 30, 1997, when Queensryche performed at Jones Beach on Long Island.

Well done, Brian.  Funny memory, but I remember attending this exact show and knowing Geoff was having health issues.  I remember them playing a song from their longer set list, meaning they'd be playing the full set and Geoff was likely feeling better.  I was in the fourth row, and I remember looking to my left and seeing Brian and his friend yell in excitement as they realized the longer set list would be performed, lol. :D
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #567 on: August 02, 2017, 09:52:23 AM »
I was incredibly disappointed in this album. The stripped down approach didn't sit well with me. Everyone else was doing it and I generally don't like it. There were too many songs, too many were just dull.
But it lacked much of what made QR QR.

There is some ok stuff in here, and it's a shit ton better than most of what came after, but it's just not that good.

I always felt that this was the CDG album, and when I didn't connect with it, the loss of Chris didn't hit me too hard tbh. But maybe that was because after the early life changing albums for me, we now had two albums that just weren't essential listening to me. And Dream Theater had taken over as my favourite band.
I thought it was the end of QR as I expected Tate to take over and it was clear that he wasn't a metal guy. I saw the band 'going grunge' like everyone else had and I pretty much moved on. I bought Q2k, and Tribe (but only because it was signed by the band) but my heart wasn't in it.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #568 on: August 02, 2017, 09:54:09 AM »
When this album first came out, I wasn't quite sure what to think.  There were definitely some high points.  But I was a bit alarmed that I didn't immediately LOVE the album.  But despite its more stripped-down nature (relatively speaking, anyway), since the time I had discovered Queensryche up to now, all their albums had been growers that I didn't immediately "get," but came to deeply love and appreciate over time as they slowly sank in.

One thing that I also appreciated about Queensryche up through this album is that, while they had their own unique take on things and didn't try to "copy" any particular sound, from album to album, they managed to zero in on a particular aspect of the music industry around them and have it reflected in their sound.  I think that is definitely true on this album as well.  Samsara put it this way:

Quote
In short, Hear in the Now Frontier was Queensryche's attempt to capture the essence of grunge and alternative rock in an effort to get back on mainstream rock fans' radars, and recapture some momentum.

This album was anything but grunge or alternative.  And, yet, it did somewhat "capture the essence" of or at least reflect those styles in a very Queensryche way.  But despite its relatively stripped down sound, the album is still layered and complex, perhaps deceptively so.  I think one of the main reasons it sounds as simple and straightforward as it does is because of the drumming.  A huge factor in Queensryche's earlier albums sounding so huge and complex was Rockenfield's drumming.  It is very busy and complex, which gives the songs a different feeling than if he just played straightforward beats.  On HITNF, he for the first time often plays mostly simple-sounding, straightforward beats, and that changes the overall feeling and vibe of the album.

Obviously, this was a very different kind of album from the band.  But I loved it and still do.  It has a few tracks I don't care for all that much, like Anytime/Anywhere and Get a Life.  But I really enjoy most of the songs on this album.  And, depending on my mood, I rank it as high as #4 overall in their discography behind only Empire, Promised Land, and Mindcrime. 

A few notes on some specific songs:

-All I Want:  I had to talk about this one.  First, the vocals.  Yeah, CDG's voice isn't as strong as Tate's.  But, honestly, I can't picture Tate singing this song.  I think it needed to be understated and sound sincere and UNmelodramatic, and I'm not sure Tate could have pulled that off like Chris did.  No, this isn't a grammy winning vocal performance.  But it doesn't need to be.  To me, Chris captures the eerie sincerely obsessive vibe the lyrics call for.  And speaking of the lyrics, as Samsara pointed out, they aren't what they seem.  This isn't a standard ballad, but is a creepy anti-ballad about an obsessed lover (perhaps borderline stalker).  ...which I personally  believe ties directly into the album art.  I won't give away my theory.  But based on what I've already said, I think it's easy to connect the dots.  Anyhow, this isn't a standard song.  It's a bit of a strange novelty.  And I like and appreciate it for that.  It will never appear on any of my "top __ songs" lists.  But I still enjoy it very much.

-The Voice Inside:  Also very different for a Queensryche song, and I absolutely love it.  Its plodding beat serves as a nice backdrop for those big, harsh, dissonant chords.  I always thought this would make a cool opener, and on my Queensryche mix tape back in the day, I had this as the first song after an  intro of "I Remember Now," which worked really well (and was a fun fake out for people listening with me that were expecting Anarchy X).   

-Reach:  Along with The Voice Inside and spool, this is a contender for best song on the album.  The only downside is that the solo, which is pretty tasty, feels like something that should have been included as an interlude solo in between verses to make way for something a bit more epic in the actual primary solo spot.  But to me, this song is an often overlooked gem.

-Chasing Blue Sky:  I had the Japanese import version of the album, which was the only way at the time to get this song.  It was a nice addition.  Nothing spectacular, but very moody and different.  I much prefer Geoff singing it than the version that was on Televoid.

Overall, this album showed the band again trying something different.  For perhaps the last time in their history, I feel like the experimenting paid off and delivered a very rewarding album.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #569 on: August 02, 2017, 09:56:26 AM »
Great write up, boring record.  I re-listened to this last week and yesterday and enjoy only a handful of tracks. Sign of the Times, You, Reach, Hit the Black, and Spool.  I can tolerate The Voice Inside, but the rest of the record just doesn't work for me.  And I refuse to buy into the fact that it's great simply because....DeGarmo. 

I know fans love him, I know fans love what he brings to the band and his "nuances," but if he's going to write music like this, I want no part of it.  The awesome guitars are mostly absent from this album, save the tracks above.  I don't mind stylistic change - I love the album that came after this one.  But to me, HITNF is just dull and too dry for my tastes.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #570 on: August 02, 2017, 09:58:02 AM »
My personal story on this one starts a few months prior to release. A friend of a friend was connected and got us a copy of HITNF about a month before the release date, on a dubbed cassette. I made a copy, listened religiously, and wondered where the hell the band I loved was. Ha ha ha.

But, remembering my reaction to Promised Land, I gave it some time. It didn't quite grow on me like PL did, but I came away with some favorites like spOOL and Hit the Black. I ended up buying it on CD on release day. I was also a newly-minted fan club member, and got a bunch of swag to put up around town. I kept a couple items for myself, and met the band for the first time on tour (twice).

The first was at the PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel, NJ. I remember standing there with two of my friends, first on line at this gate they had set up that would lead to some covered pavilions where we'd meet the band. They opened the gates, and the three of us just stood there, dumbfounded. Finally, I elbowed and said "lets go!" and we proceeded to meet and grab a pic with each of the guys. I don't remember much more about that day, except for the images of the pictures captured.

A few nights later we were at the pre-show meet and greet again, and a little looser. I brought one of those saved fan club HITNF posters for the guys to sign, which they did. I also got to talk to DeGarmo more, and people got mad because I asked about his pilot's license, and he lit up like a Christmas tree and almost pulled me aside to talk about it for probably a solid five minutes straight. I sorta felt bad, but it was a moment I'd never forget. My friend Adam took our picture, and it was really cool. Good show too.

I have pictures of meeting the band both nights, along with the ticket stubs and backstage passes framed at home.

As for the record, it hasn't really gotten better for me as a whole over the years, but I have a renewed respect for what DeGarmo was trying to do, and understand it more. I genuinely like slightly more than half the record:

Sign of the Times
The Voice Inside
You
Some People Fly
Reach
Hit the Black
Hero
spOOL

Some of those are not quite as good as others on the list, but I "like" them. The other songs on the record...I don't need to really hear them again. Some interesting qualities to them, but they really don't do it for me AT ALL. I mean, I don't particularly like "Before the Storm," but it's still an enjoyable listen. The songs I left off the above list from HITNF -- no interest in hearing them ever again (although I have listened in doing the write up).

To me, Queensryche was all about pushing boundaries. But HITNF pushed too hard in the stripped down direction, and it took away from who they were as a band. A lot of people blame DeGarmo on this one, and he does deserve a chunk of that blame. However, I do like to point out that no one else really helped step up and contribute. Wilton had one writing credit, Ed had one or two. I mean, at some point, if the band didn't like what it was hearing, they should have contributed other songs. But who knows how it went, ya know? None of us were there.

I will say, however, that over time, those eight songs I listed above are tracks that I still regularly listen to when listening to Queensryche. I think the guitar playing is a lot better than people think it is (the solo in You is fantastic, as is the one in Hero), and had Queensryche elected to take some more time to flesh some of the tunes out (Saved is a great example -- terrible chorus and Tate sings it poorly, unfortunately), and trimmed some clear fillers, HITNF could have been much, much better.

It wouldn't have done any better, sales-wise, because of the issues stated in the write-up, but better production and more time spent in pre-pro would have served HITNF much better.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #571 on: August 02, 2017, 10:45:49 AM »

Well done, Brian.  Funny memory, but I remember attending this exact show and knowing Geoff was having health issues.  I remember them playing a song from their longer set list, meaning they'd be playing the full set and Geoff was likely feeling better.  I was in the fourth row, and I remember looking to my left and seeing Brian and his friend yell in excitement as they realized the longer set list would be performed, lol. :D

Thanks! And I remember you telling me about that! And now that you say it again, I do remember the "will they, or won't they" excitement regarding the setlist, and then that joy when it was clear we'd get the whole thing. I figured they would, given it was Jones Beach, but given how bad Geoff was sick, it was dicey. Still thrilled to this day I got to hear two slightly different sets on that tour. I love Della Brown, and fortunately I got to see the original lineup play it in Jersey...


One thing that I also appreciated about Queensryche up through this album is that, while they had their own unique take on things and didn't try to "copy" any particular sound, from album to album, they managed to zero in on a particular aspect of the music industry around them and have it reflected in their sound.  I think that is definitely true on this album as well.  Samsara put it this way:

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In short, Hear in the Now Frontier was Queensryche's attempt to capture the essence of grunge and alternative rock in an effort to get back on mainstream rock fans' radars, and recapture some momentum.

This album was anything but grunge or alternative.  And, yet, it did somewhat "capture the essence" of or at least reflect those styles in a very Queensryche way.  But despite its relatively stripped down sound, the album is still layered and complex, perhaps deceptively so.

Yes, exactly that. It was something Queensryche had this knack of being able to do back then, with the original lineup. They always (except for PL, in my opinion) embraced musical trends, but did so in a way that made it distinctly their own. And "deceptively complex" is exactly how I'd describe HITNF (in retrospect).

 
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I think one of the main reasons it sounds as simple and straightforward as it does is because of the drumming.  A huge factor in Queensryche's earlier albums sounding so huge and complex was Rockenfield's drumming.  It is very busy and complex, which gives the songs a different feeling than if he just played straightforward beats.  On HITNF, he for the first time often plays mostly simple-sounding, straightforward beats, and that changes the overall feeling and vibe of the album.

Great observation. I never really took notice of that before, but you're absolutely on the money with that. That continued a bit of a trend starting with Empire, where Scott sort of started to lay back a bit, as the direction shifted from metal to hard rock. He took it more to an extreme simplicity with HITNF...

Quote

-All I Want: *snip*   To me, Chris captures the eerie sincerely obsessive vibe the lyrics call for.  And speaking of the lyrics, as Samsara pointed out, they aren't what they seem.  This isn't a standard ballad, but is a creepy anti-ballad about an obsessed lover (perhaps borderline stalker).  ...which I personally  believe ties directly into the album art.  I won't give away my theory.  But based on what I've already said, I think it's easy to connect the dots. 

You should. You've told it to me, and I do buy into it. I wasn't going to reveal it in the write-up, because you're the only one who has ever said it (to my knowledge), and no one (again, to my knowledge) has asked Chris, so please share!

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-The Voice Inside:  Also very different for a Queensryche song, and I absolutely love it.  Its plodding beat serves as a nice backdrop for those big, harsh, dissonant chords.  I always thought this would make a cool opener, and on my Queensryche mix tape back in the day, I had this as the first song after an  intro of "I Remember Now," which worked really well (and was a fun fake out for people listening with me that were expecting Anarchy X). 

I love this song. Love it more today than I did even when I first heard it -- and I could never really identify why, except to say the message resonated. But your description of the beat leaving an opening for the chords...yeah, it works nicely. And I thought it was a great opener on the HITNF tour.

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-Reach:  Along with The Voice Inside and spool, this is a contender for best song on the album.  The only downside is that the solo, which is pretty tasty, feels like something that should have been included as an interlude solo in between verses to make way for something a bit more epic in the actual primary solo spot.  But to me, this song is an often overlooked gem.

Agreed. I have this in my personal top-5 from the album. I totally feel you on the Wilton solo. I wanted more. But I think with what they were trying to accomplish with the record, "more" (at the time) may have deviated from the goal. But I've always loved this track. The ending is a little lame, but lyrically, it's fun. You don't get the legal jargon though, until you go to law school and take Civil Procedure (at least I didn't). ha ha ha.

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Offline romdrums

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #572 on: August 02, 2017, 01:45:47 PM »
This record.

After Promised Land, which I thought was a great artistic success for them, I felt they could have gone anywhere musically as long as they held on to what made them distinctive.  I did not expect a grunge record. I got it on release day if I'm not mistaken, probably at a Media Play (remember them?).  As a drummer, I was furious at the atrocious drum sound.  The drums were dry, limp and lifeless.  When I looked at the credits I saw Toby Wright mixed the record, and I immediately remembered he had mixed the final (at the time) Alice in Chains record, and the drum sound was terrible on that record as well.  I remember really trying to give this record a chance.  I could understand going for a stripped down sound, but this record was anorexic.  It was like they forgot everything that made them distinctive in the first place. 

Further diving into the record, there are signs all over the place that all is not well in the band.  DeGarmo had half of the lyric credits and almost all of the music credits.  Wilton had one song.  After contributing to 4 songs on PL, Rockenfield had nothing apart from the Chasing Blue Sky B-side.  Tate had 7 lyric credits, and with the exception of Spool and maybe Some People Fly, they're largely throw-away.  Get A Life?  Anytime/Anywhere?  Saved? Please.  DeGarmo's lyrics mostly hit, and I think his frustration shines through, especially in hindsight.  It's clear that he's evaluating his place in both society and within the band.  Hell, even in the band pictures you can see the malaise and the cracks in the armor.  In the photo in the center of the booklet, you've got Tate and Rockenfield staring somewhat blankly off into the distance, DeGarmo contemplating the Tri-Ryche on the floor.  Only Wilton and Jackson are looking directly into the camera, and Wilton is in the corner in the back.  In the other picture, it's a very similar vibe.  With the way things turned out for the band with the subsequent tour, the label folding, and being dropped by Q-Prime, and with DeGarmo's departure, I'm actually surprised they decided to carry on.  To me it was kind of obvious, even without knowing all of the details, that they needed a break.
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Offline Mebert78

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #573 on: August 02, 2017, 02:35:44 PM »
Nice post, romdrums!  I agree with much of it, but I personally wouldn't put too much stock into the band photos.  99% of bands never smile or look happy in band photos, lol. :)
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #574 on: August 02, 2017, 02:39:41 PM »
I can't remember the last time I listened to this album.  I would have to go back and hear it again just to find out if there were any parts of it that I actually liked.  This is when QR pretty much fell off my map.  Although, I did continue to keep buying subsequent albums hoping for something better, it never happened.  Not until the last 2 albums have I become interested again.

However, I appreciate your efforts in these write-ups Samsara.  No easy task, and based on your analysis of some of the details, I'll try to make an effort to got back and appreciate some of the observations you've made.  Thanks.  :)
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #575 on: August 02, 2017, 03:32:52 PM »
Great effort and write up Brian!

I give this album a courtesy listen once or twice a year just out of respect to the band, but it's still hard to grasp that the same group of men that made the six previous albums, made this one.  Its a decent rock album, but nothing more.  This is the definition of less is more when it comes to music.  Knock 4 songs off this album to 10 and its already better.   Not including anything from DTC, "All I Want" is easily my most disliked Queensryche song in their discography.  Keep that for a solo album and keep it away from QR.  How they thought to include that song would be a good idea is a head scratcher.

But there are some good songs.  I really like "You" and I think "Some People Fly" is a great ballad.

Offline romdrums

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #576 on: August 02, 2017, 03:52:48 PM »
Nice post, romdrums!  I agree with much of it, but I personally wouldn't put too much stock into the band photos.  99% of bands never smile or look happy in band photos, lol. :)

True.  ;) 
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #577 on: August 02, 2017, 04:21:19 PM »
I don't find this album to be "Terrible" per say. I absolutely loved Promised Land right from release, and I realized that it was a pretty major departure from the heavier stuff, so I gave HITNF a fair shake, It was the new album by my favorite band, so I tried hard to like it and I found that I did really like about four songs from the album. The problem was the songs after those four were really, really, tough to get into and were almost a chore to listen to trying to find a positive. That never happened before, at least not with me, where there were several songs that I just flat out didn't care for from this band. Well it happened for the first time with this record.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show from this tour that I saw (Philly - Mann music Center) but it was a strange vibe on that tour I could almost sense things had changed and they had changed drastically. The fans were more subdued, the stage set up was weird, less of a crowd than I had expected. despite all this I was still shocked when DeGarmo left the band.

looking back on the record now, nothing has changed. I pretty much pull it out on occasion to play those same four songs (Sign of the Times, Some People Fly, Hit the Black and Spool) beyond that it's pretty much a forced listen and one that gets aborted on most occasions. This album is a significant drop off and disappointment for the most part, but from here on out for the remainder of the Tate years it becomes the norm more so than the exception.         

Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #578 on: August 02, 2017, 04:36:42 PM »
Have to disagree with Samsara in regard to the solos - these stuck to the grunge style, if we have to have one it can't be flashy. Too many dreary, plodding songs.

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #579 on: August 02, 2017, 04:39:19 PM »
I was at the aforementioned Columbus, Ohio show where he blew his voice out. I think I went into some detail about it earlier in this thread, or it might have been the other QR thread. To this day, I still don't know what the setlist for this tour was supposed to look like. We got 5 songs at the Columbus show, and there was talk of them coming back to make up the date at the beginning, but they ended up canceling it a couple of weeks later.

Interesting (or maybe not) side story to that show. When I took the tickets back to the record shop in Delaware, Ohio that I purchased them at to cash them in, I heard a couple of cuts off of the Abraxas Pool album that came out around then for the very first time. I absolutely love that album, and that memory has always stuck in my mind.

There are some good songs on this record. Of course, most people like Spool, but my favorite track is the Voice Inside.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #580 on: August 02, 2017, 04:43:56 PM »
I remember getting this CD and Tonic's "Lemon Parade" the same day.  I really liked the change of the sound.   I was okay with a different style. I think over time there are certain songs that are really weak while I still love most of the songs.  It's still a very good album for me just not up to the level of the other albums before it but it's still a good album.

All I Want never bothered me as a song.  I knew it was Chris DeGarmo singing it was something different and I thought it was cool. I couldn't stand the song Hero.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #581 on: August 02, 2017, 05:26:38 PM »
One of the biggest plummets of all time. They went from a masterpiece to this?  There are a few good songs on there, but by and large this is a mediocre record (which is being kind), one that isn't worthy of any more keystrokes.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #582 on: August 02, 2017, 05:31:35 PM »
My third Qryche concert, this time in Grand Rapids, MI. (a week before his illness). Seats approximately the same as this Noblesville concert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6srtvlHZc .  Because of the concert opener, I put 'The Voice Inside' as the opening track of a 90 minute 'best of' cassette, and to this day, that song has always been my cdr opener. 

A nice vibe to the concert, though it wasn't as packed as Auburn Hills or Kalamazoo on the previous two tours, perhaps because a bit of the 'mania' had died down.  Or maybe because I was many years older, just like the band.  For that, and a few other reasons, it was my favorite Qryche concert.  I loved the 'ears' for the video screens. Tate spent a lot more time behind the keyboards (The Mission, Eyes of A Stranger).  I swear 'Some People Fly' did not close out the concert as is listed, but I never kept a record of setlists. 

With deletions, there's 8-10 tracks worth listening to make it a fair album.  The shame is that there 14.  So much to sift through to make something decent. With the 'extras' that came out on the GH release of '03...

Sign Of The Times / The Voice Inside / Some People Fly / You / Chasing Blue Sky
SIDE TWO
Reach / Hero / All I Want / Anytime-Anywhere / Someone Else (ext version)....sp00l as an optional closer

I did buy the 'Sign of the Times' cd single.  The band pic should have been the picture used as the 'back sleeve' of the album booklet.  Very 'artsy', or should I say, 'earie'  ;)




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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #583 on: August 02, 2017, 05:39:58 PM »
I took a listen to this album for the first time today and wow, it is not good. I really think the mix is terrible on this record. If you gave me this cd and said this is the demo for the upcoming album I'd believe it.

There is nothing wrong with having a strip down sound but this album is tight, but not in a good way. It feels claustrophobic if that makes sense.

As for the songs themselves there are some cool ideas here and there but that's about it.

Offline Mebert78

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #584 on: August 02, 2017, 05:57:56 PM »

Well done, Brian.  Funny memory, but I remember attending this exact show and knowing Geoff was having health issues.  I remember them playing a song from their longer set list, meaning they'd be playing the full set and Geoff was likely feeling better.  I was in the fourth row, and I remember looking to my left and seeing Brian and his friend yell in excitement as they realized the longer set list would be performed, lol. :D

Thanks! And I remember you telling me about that! And now that you say it again, I do remember the "will they, or won't they" excitement regarding the setlist, and then that joy when it was clear we'd get the whole thing. I figured they would, given it was Jones Beach, but given how bad Geoff was sick, it was dicey. Still thrilled to this day I got to hear two slightly different sets on that tour. I love Della Brown, and fortunately I got to see the original lineup play it in Jersey...

This inspired me to dig up my photos from that show. I was a still a teenager at the time and it was my first QR concert. I remember being so nervous to meet the band beforehand that I forgot to set the flash on my disposable camera for every photo except for the one with Geoff, which I posted below. Damn, I look so young, lol. I also caught a guitar pic, which made my night. Anyway, sorry for the sidetrack trip down memory lane, lol. On with the HITNF chatter! :)

« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 06:13:02 PM by Mebert78 »
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Offline Cruithne

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #585 on: August 03, 2017, 02:45:45 AM »
I've never known if it was the sufficiently lowered expectations from how bitterly disappointed I was with Promised Land, or if it was perhaps that with Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Extreme... and basically every other band popular in the 80s/early 90s releasing a heavily grunge influenced album that I was ready for QR doing something similar (at least they were from Seattle though...), or perhaps it's just that the songs on HiTNF sat quite well with me, but I've always really liked HiTNF.

Favourites from the album: Cuckoo's Nest, Saved, All I Want (love DeGarmo's vocals for it) and sp00L.

I do wish the production wasn't so dry, though and over time my rating of HiTNF and Promised Land has equalised to a 7/10 for both.

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #586 on: August 03, 2017, 02:47:08 AM »
I can make this very short. I bought it. I di'dn't like it. At ALL. I played it through once, liked perhaps ONE song. Played it halfway through the next day to make sure my ears weren't damaged or something. Then threw it away in disgust, after shortly considering using it as a coffee-mug coaster. Seriously. I hated this album. And I started worrying deeply about the future of one of my favourite bands of all time.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #587 on: August 03, 2017, 06:08:41 AM »
A lot of my thoughts have already been captured.  Highly disappointed in this album.  Re-listening to it for the first time since (likely) 1997 has simply reinforced my opinion.  There are some decent elements here and there (a good melody, good riff, good solo), but I personally think that Some People Fly and You are the only full songs that I think are good... and nothing is anything I'd consider great.  The drums are thin and no longer bombastic - which as others touched on affects the entire mood of the album.  Not sure if that's the fault of Rockenfield or Wright - but does it really matter?  It's what we get to hear

Save a few songs that got a shit-ton of radio play, I absolutely hate 'grunge' for what it did to my favorite bands of that time - either killing them, or critically wounding them.

This was the 'end' of the band for me.  I didn't follow them at all after this until the late 00's (maybe even the early '10s), and tried out some of the subsequent releases - only to find they were even worse (how was that even possible!?!?!?). 

Thankfully, they returned to form (mostly) in 2013.  More on that later though.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #588 on: August 03, 2017, 07:25:49 AM »
I have two positive things to say about this record: Sign Of The Times and sp00l are really good songs.

That's it, the rest is bland and forgettable, not because it is stripped down or different from what they've done before, or grungy (this isn't grunge and if it were it wouldn't be good grunge), it's because the songs are mediocre, uninteresting and (as I said before) just bland.

I've really tried but the record didn't grow on me, in fact with every listen I found something more that I didn't like. Sad that this was DeGarmo's last full QR record. I will never understand how a guy that was largely responsible for some of the best music out there could come up with this boring shit. But for me this also shows that apart from Tate nobody in the band wanted to take responsibility. And this led to the coming Tateryche years. But more on that later.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #589 on: August 03, 2017, 09:32:27 AM »

However, I appreciate your efforts in these write-ups Samsara.  No easy task, and based on your analysis of some of the details, I'll try to make an effort to got back and appreciate some of the observations you've made.  Thanks.  :)

You're welcome. Thanks to you and everyone who has read them and got some value from them. It has been fun, honestly. I was soured on Queensryche for a period, and doing this has really sort of brought to light the good memories of being a fan, as opposed to some of the bad stuff. Nice to listen to the music again and remember it.

As we get into the post-DeGarmo era, I'll be trying to keep things as positive and light as possible. Negative stuff will be covered, but I'm not going to dwell on it. I think it is pretty obvious most fans consider stuff post-PL to be subpar, with moments of greatness, as opposed to great with moments of filler (EP-PL). Pretty much that way for most bands and fanbases. But there's a lot of Rychean Drama coming up, and I'm going to try and focus on the music first and foremost, and bringing out the good in it, as opposed to the negative.

Great effort and write up Brian!

I give this album a courtesy listen once or twice a year just out of respect to the band, but it's still hard to grasp that the same group of men that made the six previous albums, made this one.  Its a decent rock album, but nothing more.  This is the definition of less is more when it comes to music.  Knock 4 songs off this album to 10 and its already better.   Not including anything from DTC, "All I Want" is easily my most disliked Queensryche song in their discography.  Keep that for a solo album and keep it away from QR.  How they thought to include that song would be a good idea is a head scratcher.

But there are some good songs.  I really like "You" and I think "Some People Fly" is a great ballad.

Glad you liked the write-up. Yeah, it's a bit of a head-scratcher to a degree. But the one thing in retrospect I see is a natural progression from Chris. HITNF may have been a bit dramatic because of the production, but the songwriting is following an evolutionary path. It's evident from Chris when they get to Tribe with him. It's where his headspace was at as a writer. I think HITNF would have been much more accepted if its production was a lot better. People USUALLY rank DeGarmo's efforts on Tribe (those songs) higher than those on HITNF, and sonically, it's really a pick-up from where they left off, with more involvement from Wilton and Rockenfield.

So, I have a soft spot for HITNF because of that. I really don't think the songs are bad (the few cringe-inducing ones aside), and had there been a larger, better sound, they may have been better. Frankly, I'd love to see Jimbo Barton remix Hear in the Now Frontier, or even Terry Date.

Have to disagree with Samsara in regard to the solos - these stuck to the grunge style, if we have to have one it can't be flashy. Too many dreary, plodding songs.

I hear ya. But I think some of them are overlooked. The two I mentioned -- You and Hero...those are a bit more flashy, particularly the former. But for the most part, I think the solos are understated.

I took a listen to this album for the first time today and wow, it is not good. I really think the mix is terrible on this record. If you gave me this cd and said this is the demo for the upcoming album I'd believe it.

There is nothing wrong with having a strip down sound but this album is tight, but not in a good way. It feels claustrophobic if that makes sense.

As for the songs themselves there are some cool ideas here and there but that's about it.

Really good description. I never put it into that context, but that does hit the nail on the head with the overall sound. Even the atmospheric type songs don't really breathe.

 
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #590 on: August 03, 2017, 10:43:45 AM »
Sam, great write up. It puts this album in perspective. I can't say all that I want on my phone but my favorite tracks are Hit The Black and Anytime/Anywhere.
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #591 on: August 03, 2017, 09:25:21 PM »
Loved the writeup, Samsara. For the longest time I've avoided this era of QR, now I'm actively looking forward to checking out these albums and getting the historical background.

This is the first album in the discography that I've never listened to before. I am familiar with Chasing Blue Sky though and I really enjoy that song.

My first impression of this album is that it's actually not too bad. It gets kinda same-y toward the end, but I could see myself going back to this album in the future. I'm not a fan of grunge or alt rock at all, so I agree with Bosk that while it captures the attitude of those styles it's definitely something else. The stripped down sound was disappointing at first, especially after two albums that were dripping with great atmosphere, but it fits the material and the songs are good. There are still some cool soundscapes anyway.


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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #592 on: August 04, 2017, 04:57:42 AM »
One more thing. All I could do listening to this was: What the FUCK happened to Scott Rockenfield's drumming?!! I mean, what the hell?
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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #593 on: August 04, 2017, 07:40:23 AM »
I actually don't find HITNF all that bad, but this is coming from someone who was born around the time PL was released and didn't get into QR until 2 or 3 years ago, so my perspective is obviously different than that of those who were around when the album came out. I think it's easily the best out of the records that were released between PL and the ones with Todd, though of course it doesn't hold a candle to the classics.

What I like about HITNF is that most of the songs have strong hooks and melodies, as well as very solid guitarwork - you can tell DeGarmo's touch was still there, because QR's vocal melodies took a nosedive after he quit and Tate took over. Spool and The Voice Inside are 2 of my all-time favorite QR songs, and Some People Fly, Sign of the Times, You and Reach are all great too. However, Anytime/Anywhere sucks hard, Get a Life has one of the most repulsive excuses for a chorus I've ever heard, I'm a little iffy about Cuckoo's Nest, and while All I Want isn't bad, it doesn't sound like QR at all and should've been a Chris solo tune instead. I have no problem with the rest of the songs, but having 14 on one album is just too much - drop the weak/bad songs and you have a pretty decent record.

I have to agree with those who criticize the production - I've heard a bunch of albums produced or mixed by Toby Wright and they all sound dry and lifeless, so HITNF isn't an exception. I can only imagine how much better it would've sounded with PL-style production. :-\

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Re: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread: Hear in the Now Frontier (1997)
« Reply #594 on: August 04, 2017, 08:05:17 AM »
One more thing. All I could do listening to this was: What the FUCK happened to Scott Rockenfield's drumming?!! I mean, what the hell?

There are drums on this record, but there's no Scott on this record, if that makes sense.  Then again, it could be that Toby Wright's mix sucked all the life out of his performances.  I wouldn't trust him to mix a Jack and coke.  The coke would end up flat.
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