Author Topic: The Queensr˙che Discography Thread  (Read 109042 times)

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Offline Cruithne

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It took me a full year after its release before I managed to find some value in Q2k whilst on a QR binge, and that value is in the songs "When The Rain Comes", and "Right Side Of My Mind". Oh, and I guess the first minute or so of Burning Man is pretty good, but then it rather rambles on without going anywhere.

The album sounded poor; I disliked the guitar tones; the vocal harmonies all sounded a bit odd and the vocal melodies were lacking something, in general. This wasn't 'my' Queensryche at all.

Also, I remember the Kelly Gray announcement in Kerrang! and being baffled by the choice and why Tate thought people would have a clue who this hitherto unknown guitarist was. I guess people who knew Tate's own pre-QR history with Myth would've known, but it seemed to me a very strange and unambitious choice.

Offline Cintus Supremus

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From HITNF and onward, it's more interesting reading these little write-ups about the records than listening to the actual records themselves. Or at least until this thread gets to the Todd La Torre era. Revisiting the band's catalogue from 1997 to 2011 in an attempt at finding some "hidden gems" garners no additional results from me. There's just not much good to listen to in there.

Offline bosk1

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This was a really interesting time.  As mentioned above, I really enjoyed HITNF.  And I wasn't really aware that so many people panned it until much later. 

This was also the time when the Internet had really been catching on for a few years now and become a widely-used resource.  So, as with a lot of bands, Queensryche had a website, which I checked periodically to get updates.  I remember being shocked when it was announced that Chris left.  And then...

Throughout the year, Queensryche.com started posting pictures of an unnamed guitarist, blocking out his face. Tons of names were thrown out there. In the end, however, Queensr˙che reached into the past, emerging with fellow Seattle native Kelly Gray.

Yeah, I remember the shot of him in the studio playing a strat with his head down and hair obscuring his face.  The announcement that went along with it was cryptic, but gave a sense that the band were thrilled with the replacement, and that he was a seasoned vet that the fans would love as well.  I don't remember the specifics, but it was enough to put my mind relatively at ease.

Then I think it was April 1999 when they posted a fake April Fools announcement that Eddie Jackson was also leaving the band as well.  At first, it wasn't really clear that it was an April Fools gag, and I was truly alarmed about the future of the band.  But as I read on and it talked about him having to tackle his "true calling" of dealing with the impending fallout of Y2K, it became clear that it was just Eddie being Eddie.

I remember when the album dropped.  Queensryche were my favorite band, and I was definitely going to pick it up on release day.  I was in law school at the time, and I remember me and a friend driving to Tower Records in Malibu to pick this up.  The ride back to campus was short, and I had to get to class, so I didn't get more than a few songs in.  But I remember hearing the opening groove and riffs of Falling Down and saying something along the lines of, "Okay, I really like what I'm hearing so far."  Sacred Ground also had a lot of groove and was pretty catchy, so that one was an early favorite (although the lyrics soured me on it fairly quickly). 

I listened to the album quite a bit over the ensuing months.  I liked it.  But I didn't love it.  And over time, I really lost interest and felt that there just wasn't enough substance there to keep me hooked.  Falling Down was okay.  Right Side of My Mind was pretty good.  After seeing them live (although I missed the proper tour and was bummed that I didn't get to hear my still-favorite band covering my favorite U2 song, Bullet the Blue Sky), I gained an appreciation for Breakdown, Liquid Sky, and even the fairly simple Burning Man.  To this day, I still think those are "pretty good" songs.  But overall, this album was a BIG step down from anything the band had ever done, and I was fairly disappointed.  But this was still a band I held in high regard.  But there were two big events that occurred within a short period of time that slightly shifted my musical outlook:  Queensryche released Q2K and Dream Theater released Scenes From a Memory.

I had been a casual DT fan since the time I heard Pull Me Under on radio in 1992 and bought I&W.  I liked the album, but never really "got" it as I should have.  But it was an album I consistently came back to every so often, and was still listening to regularly during this time.  I heard some other things from them through the years, but hadn't bought any of their other albums.  Still, on the strength of I&W alone, I was still listening these years later.  I remember browsing through the CD racks at Tower in Woodland Hills one day after classes in either very late '99 or early '00 and seeing "Metrolopis Pt. 2" when I decided to check the "Dream Theater" section and see what those guys were up to.  My eyes just about bugged out of my head and I practically ran to the register to buy it on sight.  I popped it into the CD player and it was an instant game changer.  On the strength of that album, and the comparative weakness of Q2K, Dream Theater instantly supplanted Queensryche as my new "favorite band."  This is fairly significant, as I've only REALLY had three ultimate "favorite bands" in my lifetime.  From the moment I heard Pyromania, my first was Def Leppard.  That continued through the Hysteria cycle and until probably through Desert Storm when Queensryche took over that mantle on the strength of Empire.  From SFAM to the present, it has been DT. 

But back at this time, in the 2000 or so range, I still really liked Queensryche and was hopeful they would course-correct with the next album.  Man, how cool would it be if someday, my two favorite bands could tour together?  That would be AMAZING!  Yeah...

Anyhow, if I were to do an "ultimate" QR play list, I'm not sure anything from Q2K would make the cut (unless I were deliberately trying to include something from every album).  That said, the 5 songs I listed above aren't bad, and I enjoy them well enough on the rare occasions that I revisit the album.  One Life is decent as well.  I hate to say this about any album from any band, but frankly, the rest of the album is entirely forgettable and bores me to the point that I can't even remember any of the other song titles or how they go.  That said, I did also buy the 2006 re-issue with bonus tracks.  The quote about Kelly at the end of Samsara's post is from the detailed liner notes.  They are worth a read.  As for the bonus tracks, they didn't really do anything for me.  Until There Was You...bleh!  And I am apparently in the minority that isn't moved in the slightest by Howl.  For awhile, whenever Samsara would mention his high regard for that song, I would go back and revisit it to try to figure out what I was missing.  I eventually gave up.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Many tunes have promise, start to go somewhere, and then never quite 'get there'.  With a bit of personal pruning...

Falling Down / Sacred Ground / One Life / When The Rain Comes... / Beside You      
SIDE TWO      
Open * (yes, I know.....) / Howl / Liquid Sky / Breakdown / The Right Side Of My Mind   

still gets a handful of plays a year on the way home from work.  Some tracks would have fit quite easily on PL.  Rhythm section sounded so much better than Front Ear, and the BVs were more prominent.  I don't hold the angst towards this as others, but I did not see them tour as I had after the three previous ones.

I didn't know 95% of the background regarding this era until today.  Superb work again !   

(additional:  just read Bosk's comments.  My Qryche/DT switch came after the next studio album, but that's for later)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 11:05:51 AM by DragonAttack »
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline bosk1

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I'll also add:  My reaction on listening through the entire album a couple of times was along the lines of, "I really like U2.  But we already have that band.  We don't need Queensryche to try to be an uninteresting version of them."  I think that still kinda holds up.
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Offline Samsara

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My personal recollections on this period were mostly positive. Fresh off meeting the band twice and seeing them twice on the HITNF tour, I remember being crushed by the news. I was in college at the time, and I remember seeing the notice on Queensryche.com that Chris had left. I remember trying to put a positive spin on it, saying how someone new could really get them back on a heavier direction.

At the time, I really didn't have a full grasp of DeGarmo's impact on the band -- how he was responsible for a lot of what we loved, and how vital he was to the band. So, I pretty much took the news as a way for Queensryche to push forward and embraced the change. All throughout 1998, myself and a couple close friends I made on campus (and attended the HITNF shows with) were excited to hear what would come next.

When .com started doing the pictures of the guitarist, I thought for a brief instant it was James Byrd (formerly of Fifth Angel). He had the hair, and Byrd had history in the Seattle scene. Kelly Gray wasn't even on my radar. But once Kelly was announced, Brett Miller (a fellow Northwest metal historian and high school friend of the band) noted that Kelly's style was very Blackmore-inspired. Of course, he changed that once he heard what he sounded like in 1999, he was going on what Kelly sounded like in 1981. Anyway, we (my friends and I) were excited to see what Kelly would bring to the band.

Queensryche held a fan club event, Seattle 1998. The band didn't play, but new music was played over the PA system at the event, which was a meet and greet. The descriptions of the songs whet the appetite of all of us online fans at the time that were on .com's old message board. My friends and I decided not to go to Seattle 1998, but said if they did another one, we'd do it. Well, they announced "Seattle '99" and we made plans to attend.

That was my Christmas present to myself -- paying for a roundtrip to Seattle from New York, attending the show, spending a weekend in Seattle (the first of many, many times), etc. A few days prior to the event, friends on .com from Seattle recorded the KISW premier of the songs that would be on Q2k and the interview. If memory serves, they didn't surface on the Internet until the weekend of the fan club event (remember, this was almost 20 years ago). So, we were heading to Seattle not having heard anything new from the band. Just descriptions from people.

A snowstorm hit the day before I was scheduled to fly out. In fact, when I flew out of LaGuardia Airport, my flight was literally the last one allowed to leave. My friend Marshal was on a different flight, and his was canceled and he ultimately didn't make it. What was supposed to be a 10-hour flight with a change over ended up being 18 hours. I got into Seattle without any clothes (they lost my bag), at something like 11 p.m. Pacific time. It was horrendous. Thankfully, I met up with a few online folks (Hutch and others)  and my bag was found and made its way to me.

The Seattle '99 show was cool. NAF Studios is simply rehearsal space from what I recall, on the outskirts of Seattle. i remember Susan Tate being there and checking our IDs and issuing us badges (if you check the link to the show page in the write-up, you'll see a scan of mine). Once we got in, I went up to the front. The stage area was separated from a drinking area by a high chainlink fence. The stage was decorated with an Empire tri-ryche, but the whole area had the Mindcrime cover motif of the crowd. It was cool, it was raw, and I was frankly, ridiculously excited.

The band walked up on stage, and I remember Tate: "Welcome, welcome, welcome. I guess this is Seattle...'99, isn't it? So glad you could be here. Ready boys?" And then they kicked into Empire. Good memories. Edit -- that quoted stuff I think was from Seattle 2001...lol. Hey, I'm getting old, it gets jumbled.

The new songs fit right in from what I could tell, and the band sounded good. Kelly sounded really good, although like I think I mentioned in the write-up, that was probably because he was mostly playing rhythm guitar, not lead, so you couldn't really get a feel for it. But at the time, I didn't know, and didn't care. The band had a darker, more metal image again, Tate was commanding and sounded killer, and I was in full-on fanboy mode.  :lol

Once it ended, and eventually, when I got home, I was buzzing for weeks. I ended up getting the KISW broadcast from a friend, and later, a really poor quality partial recording of the fan club show. But they were gold for me for those next eight months.

Once Q2k was released, I was, at the time, fully on board with the record. I remember arguing back and forth with "purists" over the quality of the album. Ironically, I'd become one of those purists later. But simply put, I liked Q2k then, and I still do now. More on that later.

Tour-wise, I went to 7 shows on the Q2k tour, including the Seattle '99 fan club event (stopping June 2000). They were:

Queensryche   1/16/99      Seattle, Wash.      NAF Studios            None
Queensryche   10/29/99      Las Vegas, Nev.      The Joint      None
Queensryche   10/30/99      Las Vegas, Nev.      The Joint      None
Queensryche   11/26/99      Chicago, Ill.      The Riviera      missed dD 
Queensryche   11/27/99      Milwaukee, Wis.      Riverside Theatre      doubleDrive
Queensryche   12/4/99      Wallingford, Conn.   Oakdale Theater      Caroline’s Spine
Queensryche   3/1/00      Washington, D.C.   9:30 Club      Jesse Jms Dupree

Ironically, although I had tickets to the NYC show at the Beacon Theater, I was unable to attend do to not getting back in time for a work event. I had a blast going to all these gigs, honestly. The worst one was the first Vegas gig. There apparently was a curfew the band was not privy to the first night, and they only played 75 minutes, which almost initiated a riot (seriously). The next night, they played more than two hours to make up for it (and I guess they negotiated something with the venue).

Simply put, the tour was fun. I have positive memories of it all. Yeah, Kelly Gray's playing didn't gel. Even then, I had a hard time defending that position. He wasn't the right fit in comparison to DeGarmo. Some fans called Queensryche "Nu-Ryche" back then because of the muddier sound. In retrospect, the name was pretty much on-par with some of the nu-metal band sounds of that time period.

For me personally, it was a wonderful experience traveling around to the gigs and enjoying the band live. I enjoyed the Q2k material then, and still do. I've said repeatedly, and still do, that I would have loved to see where Queensryche would have went next with Kelly Gray. When I interviewed Kelly in June 2001 (I'll try and find that Q&A I did for the next entry), he basically admitted that Q2k was a good record, but they could do better. He indicated that it was about feeling each other out musically, and then healing a bit for them, and moving forward. He was pretty confident a second record together would have been much better. And I agree.

My favorites from Q2k are Howl, When the Rain Comes, Liquid Sky, Right Side of My Mind, Falling Down, and Breakdown. And I have a bit of a soft spot for Sacred Ground because I love the music, along with Burning Man because of those cool guitar licks/harmonics. I also dig Wot Kinda Man. So if you count those, there are eight songs on Q2k out of 13 (counting the two studio tracks released on the 2006 version) that I like. That's a pretty good percentage of tunes. They just didn't...sound like classic Queensryche. It sounded like something new, and I was into it. I still am, it just never got fleshed out further, which I find to be a shame. Seriously.

It was different, but I honestly believe the band's initial excitement was genuine about the material. You could see it in Whip's manner on stage and how they talked about the record. They were a band in those early months of writing, recording and first touring, before things happen with Kelly (as Tate alluded to in the write-up). And I embraced that vibe they had and still do.

Looking back on it now, I separate this era very easily, for obvious reasons. It was a short era, and very distinct. I can put things in "boxes" and it makes me appreciate them more for what they are. Was Q2k a classic Queensryche record? No. Was it even a progressive-tinged hard rock record? Nope. But it was a new generation of hard rock by a band very much united at the time on their direction, and being a fan of bands from this era (Disturbed, Sevendust, etc.) I really dug it and still very much enjoy it. The solo in "Falling Down" is a favorite of mine in particular.

Edit- listening to it today, it looks like Jon Plum and Kelly did the channeling thing with the trade-off solos. In Falling Down, Wilton appears in the left channel, and Kelly in the right. Although curiously, they don't do it on Right Side, which if I remember correctly, is a trade off with Gray first, then Wilton. Weird. Gray and Wilton are both playing lead parts underneath each other, so maybe that's why.


« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:04:42 PM by Samsara »
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Offline Grappler

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This was the era when my QR concert going occurred.  I got into them around or after the time Degarmo left, but before Q2K was released.  I was in college and drove home to attend the show at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, which was my first of 10 total Queensryhe concerts.  My friends and I were front row, on the rail in front of Wilton (who was on the stage right side, then).  Geoff knelt down and sang a verse of Spreading the Disease right in front of me, with me shouting the lyrics right back at him - that is one of my favorite concert moments of all time.  A year or two later, I discovered that QR was my cousin's favorite band, and that he and I were about 10 feet from each other during the show and we each had no clue that the other was also there.  We started going to shows together then for a handful of years.

I still like the Q2K record - I have my favorites and agree with Samsara's assessment of the songs.  But the album just has a nice groove and flow to it, which I still enjoy.  I saw two more shows in March 2000 at the Chicago House of Blues, also from the front row.  The setlist was the same, but with a different order to some of the songs.  I loved the Mindcrime and Q2K heavy setlist, and then hitting just a few other big songs.  So I have a lot of great memories of Q2K and its tour, and at the time, never cared that Kelly Gray was in the band as opposed to DeGarmo, since I was such a new fan.

Offline Samsara

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This was the era when my QR concert going occurred.  I got into them around or after the time Degarmo left, but before Q2K was released.  I was in college and drove home to attend the show at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, which was my first of 10 total Queensryhe concerts.  My friends and I were front row, on the rail in front of Wilton (who was on the stage right side, then).  Geoff knelt down and sang a verse of Spreading the Disease right in front of me, with me shouting the lyrics right back at him - that is one of my favorite concert moments of all time.  A year or two later, I discovered that QR was my cousin's favorite band, and that he and I were about 10 feet from each other during the show and we each had no clue that the other was also there.  We started going to shows together then for a handful of years.

I still like the Q2K record - I have my favorites and agree with Samsara's assessment of the songs.  But the album just has a nice groove and flow to it, which I still enjoy.  I saw two more shows in March 2000 at the Chicago House of Blues, also from the front row.  The setlist was the same, but with a different order to some of the songs.  I loved the Mindcrime and Q2K heavy setlist, and then hitting just a few other big songs.  So I have a lot of great memories of Q2K and its tour, and at the time, never cared that Kelly Gray was in the band as opposed to DeGarmo, since I was such a new fan.

Grapp -- do you remember the girl up on the guy's shoulders without a shirt on? Bouncing her boobs for Tate and Wilton? LOL. That's one of the memories burned into my head from that show (along with bad traffic and missing doubleDrive open the gig).
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Offline Grappler

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Grapp -- do you remember the girl up on the guy's shoulders without a shirt on? Bouncing her boobs for Tate and Wilton? LOL. That's one of the memories burned into my head from that show (along with bad traffic and missing doubleDrive open the gig).

Sadly, I do not remember that.  I spent most of my time looking forward since I was on the rail, but that would have been very amusing to watch!

Offline Samsara

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Grapp -- do you remember the girl up on the guy's shoulders without a shirt on? Bouncing her boobs for Tate and Wilton? LOL. That's one of the memories burned into my head from that show (along with bad traffic and missing doubleDrive open the gig).

Sadly, I do not remember that.  I spent most of my time looking forward since I was on the rail, but that would have been very amusing to watch!

I was in the pit about midway back, center. toward the end of the show, drunk chick sheds her top, gets on dude's shoulders, and is shaking them in front of Tate and Wilton. First time I saw that at a Queensryche gig.  :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Yeah, a similar thing was going on when I saw them on the Building Empires tour in NC.  I was up near the rail just a bit left of center.  Geoff was belting out a song right in front of me, and I notice people around me start looking back behind for some reason, so I turn around and look.  About 10-15 feet farther back, a young lady on some dude's shoulders had pulled up her top for Geoff.  Geoff either didn't notice or wasn't impressed, and ran over to the other side of the stage (stage left).  But not to let a good flashing go unnoticed, EdBass then sauntered up to the edge of the stage and started motioning for her to come closer.
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Offline Grappler

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One of my favorite GT stage banter moments occurred on this tour - either in Boston or New York, at a theater with seats.  I have a video bootleg where he finishes singing Breakdown, then stands at the front of the stage, arms crossed, shaking his head as he stares down at the front row.  He then eventually says something about musicians being ego driven and how he's having a hard time keeping his ego in check with "you fuckers sitting down in the front row."

They stand, the crowd erupts, and he goes into a very long explanation of how musicians increase their performance level based on how the crowd reacts, summarizing it as "you give, we give."   

In the era before smart phones and people being called out for texting during shows, I thought this was awesome.  If you're way in the back and want to stay seated, fine.  But to be right in front of the musicians and sit on your asses?  To me, that's incredibly rude, and I was happy to see Geoff call them out on it, but also follow it up with a nice explanation as to why it's important for fans to get into a concert in relation to how a band performs on stage.  He didn't belittle them at all, aside from calling them fuckers.   :)

Offline Lowdz

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So after a fall off in my love for the band, I wasn't expecting much. CDG was gone and whilst this could have been a positive thing following the way his musical taste was drifting from mine.

I bought the album more in hope than expectation but I found I enjoyed most of it. It wasn't QR but it was better than I expected and a lot better than HITNF. It was well produced and I enjoyed the groove of the songs. It wasn't a masterpiece but compared to a lot of what is to come it was.

The guitarist was pretty shit and it affected things live.

Offline Samsara

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One of my favorite GT stage banter moments occurred on this tour - either in Boston or New York, at a theater with seats.  I have a video bootleg where he finishes singing Breakdown, then stands at the front of the stage, arms crossed, shaking his head as he stares down at the front row.  He then eventually says something about musicians being ego driven and how he's having a hard time keeping his ego in check with "you fuckers sitting down in the front row."

They stand, the crowd erupts, and he goes into a very long explanation of how musicians increase their performance level based on how the crowd reacts, summarizing it as "you give, we give."   

In the era before smart phones and people being called out for texting during shows, I thought this was awesome.  If you're way in the back and want to stay seated, fine.  But to be right in front of the musicians and sit on your asses?  To me, that's incredibly rude, and I was happy to see Geoff call them out on it, but also follow it up with a nice explanation as to why it's important for fans to get into a concert in relation to how a band performs on stage.  He didn't belittle them at all, aside from calling them fuckers.   :)

March 14, 2000 - New Brunswick, NJ

And yes, I realize my recall on this stuff is borderline crazy.  :lol
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Offline Samsara

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p.s. In my rush to get the 1998 Transition and Q2k write-up published this morning, I forgot to add one section in. I'll type it here for all those that read the recap already (so you don't have to go back), and then edit the main post on this era and put it in.

Lyrics/Melodies

One of the key elements of Queensryche's music had always been the challenging vocal melodies and engaging lyrics the band presented. DeGarmo, as most hardcores know, but many fans probably have no idea, helped shape Tate's vocal melodies over the years. Even on the songs where Tate was credited with writing the lyrics, he worked with DeGarmo on the vocal melodies extensively.

So, Q2k was Tate's first record without DeGarmo's influence in that department and it showed. The vocal melodies weren't bad, but they weren't all that memorable either. They were safer, simpler, and less interesting. In fairness, vocal melody complexity had started to shift as far back as Promised Land, where Tate opted for a simpler delivery. However, when DeGarmo left, the vocal melodies took a big nose dive in terms of quality.

The same was true with the lyrics. Quite simply, the lyrics to Q2k were...a far cry from the social commentary and thought-provoking records of Queensryche's past. Even the heavily-criticized Hear in the Now Frontier, while spotty, had a number of great lyrical moments on it. Q2k, however, spent a lot of time on relationships. TOO much time in this writer's opinion. From the cringe-worthy "Sacred Ground" to "How Could I?" there was nothing very thought-provoking. Even the songs not about personal relationships, such as "Falling Down" and "Liquid Sky," really didn't jump out and engage the listener lyrically.

Lyrics are often overlooked, but like the vocal melodies, they were integral to Queensryche's unique sound. And Q2k, with Tate assuming responsibility for both areas, unfortunately, fell flat in that regard. It exposed a significant weakness in the band's songwriting capabilities that suffered on subsequent records, except in certain situations such as Tribe (we'll get to that later).
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Offline KevShmev

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Right Side of My Mind always stood out to me. It sounds like classic Queensrcyhe and it's still their best post-Promised Land song, IMO.

Most of the the rest of Q2K is a bit miss for me.  Hard to believe things got worse after this. :eek :eek

Offline PowerSlave

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I don't remember much about this album. I just started a new job today, so things are a bit hectic right now, but I'll try to give it a couple of listens this week.

I do remember seeing them in Columbus, Ohio at The Newport with JJD opening. My memories of the show are that I was very unimpressed with KG, and these skinheads that were trying to start a fight with some poor mexican kid that was trying to enjoy the show, and mind his own business. The "pit" area of the venue got a little dicey towards the end of the show because people were trying to avoid the fight.

A few of us went out into the alley behind the venue and met Michael and Eddie. For me, that was probably the best part of the evening. The guys were very acomodating.




Edited because my grasp on the english language was at an all-time low in the original post...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 07:39:09 PM by PowerSlave »
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Queensryche   3/1/00      Washington, D.C.   9:30 Club      Jesse Jms Dupree


I was at this show, too....didn't you get some hearing damage from it?  I remember this because it came up years ago on here, and I recall being surprised because it seemed normal volume to me, though I wasn't super close (maybe 1/3-1/2 way back on KG's side).
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WHEN WILL YOU ADRESS MY MONKEY ARGUMENT???? NEVER???? THAT\' WHAT I FIGURED.:lol

Offline TAC

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All the while, Tate was testing the waters outside of Queensryche, most notably with Journey. Tate auditioned for the band and wrote demos with Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain. The sessions spurred three songs, one of which had a title: “Walking Away from the Edge.” The songs would ultimately be completely re-written and appear on Journey's Red 13 EP with singer Steve Augeri. But Augeri was extremely complimentary of Tate. Check out some of the fan chatter from 10 years ago when the topic surfaced at MelodicRock.com:

 Note: There are a couple different articles on the Internet that speak briefly of Tate's audition, including one with Ross Valory, who confirmed the audition, and complimented Tate on his voice, but he simply wasn't the right fit for the band.

I seriously had never heard this before. Very interesting.



Tour-wise, I went to 7 shows on the Q2k tour, including the Seattle '99 fan club event (stopping June 2000). They were:

Queensryche   1/16/99      Seattle, Wash.      NAF Studios            None
Queensryche   10/29/99      Las Vegas, Nev.      The Joint      None
Queensryche   10/30/99      Las Vegas, Nev.      The Joint      None
Queensryche   11/26/99      Chicago, Ill.      The Riviera      missed dD 
Queensryche   11/27/99      Milwaukee, Wis.      Riverside Theatre      doubleDrive
Queensryche   12/4/99      Wallingford, Conn.   Oakdale Theater      Caroline’s Spine
Queensryche   3/1/00      Washington, D.C.   9:30 Club      Jesse Jms Dupree

Damn, Brian, nice job!


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline TAC

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So I just spun Q2K for the first time in a long time. A good friend  ;) hooked me up with it years after its release. I did not bother with it when it came out.

I remember listening to it with an open mind when I did receive it, and finding some good in it. Has a few good tunes on it. Right Side Of My Mind and When The Rain Comes are very good. And how does Howl not make the album proper?


But listening tonight I was thinking...
1. This band is a shell of itself. ON ALL levels.
2.....

One of the key elements of Queensryche's music had always been the challenging vocal melodies and engaging lyrics the band presented. DeGarmo, as most hardcores know, but many fans probably have no idea, helped shape Tate's vocal melodies over the years. Even on the songs where Tate was credited with writing the lyrics, he worked with DeGarmo on the vocal melodies extensively.

So, Q2k was Tate's first record without DeGarmo's influence in that department and it showed. The vocal melodies weren't bad, but they weren't all that memorable either. They were safer, simpler, and less interesting. In fairness, vocal melody complexity had started to shift as far back as Promised Land, where Tate opted for a simpler delivery. However, when DeGarmo left, the vocal melodies took a big nose dive in terms of quality.
......That is pitiful. How long had Tate been a performer/singer in a band? This tells me that Tate's talents begin and ended with his vocal range. That's disappointing.

3. Did being from Seattle hurt them? I mean, They are not Alice In Chains. They are not Pearl Jam. Were they too greatly influenced by a minimalist's approach. I mean, there's no way 4 of the these guys recorded Warning/RFO/ O:M. There's no way.
I liken it to when in Kiss Meets The Phantom Of The Park when the Kiss clones come and start to perform.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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I remember going in with an open mind but as time went on, I played this album less and less.  I can't tell you the last time I listened to it. I even have it on my I-Pod.
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TAC

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I actually went to my iPod to dial it up, and apparently, it's not on it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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The only Ryche album I don't own is FU. Besides Tribe until the Todd albums I never play them.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Mosh

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Had no idea Tate auditioned for Journey. That's an interesting factoid.

My impression of Q2K is a musical identity crisis. At least with Hear In the Now Frontier you could see what they were going for. It had a focused direction and made sense conceptually. Q2K is just confusing. It's bland, muddy, and overall just boring. It's weird reading how Kelly Gray "reenergized" the band. You would think with this being a sort of comeback album and the debut on a new label, they'd come out with a bold musical statement. Q2K sounds like a band that's mindlessly delivering their final album to the label before breaking up. The Right Side Of My Mind is definitely a diamond in the rough though.

The Queensryche/Dream Theater comparison is interesting (and will probably be explored further when we get to their tour), Scenes From A Memory is exactly the type of album they should've made at this point in their career. Not necessarily a concept album and not even the same musical style, but just the level of musical drive and inspiration. To me, there's never been a comparison between QR and DT because of albums like Q2K. DT have put out a few albums I don't care for, but I never got the impression that they were floundering the way QR has multiple times in their career. Even with their most contentious album, Falling Into Infinity, they managed to deliver something that had its own merits.
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Offline jammindude

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Q2K is one of those album that I was SOOO excited about, and it just ultimately left me empty.   I actually found myself trying to *make* myself like it because (as as been hinted at) all the pieces were there for this massive comeback.   A new member (after the exiting member had completely screwed the pooch with HITNF) a new label, a *band* songwriting effort....but wow.  What a letdown.  Q2Krap. 

However, I don't think it can be understated how much of an anomaly Right Side is.   Hard to believe that such an amazing song is on such an otherwise terrible album. Easily top 10 all time QR song.  It's the *only* song from the post DeGarmo era that I wish they would bring back to their current live set. 
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Offline jjrock88

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That's a good way to put it in regards to Right Side; an anomaly. That song is just drastically better than anything else on Q2K, besides Liquid Sky, which is still a distant second.

I got into QR in 2000 with the Greatest Hits cd and I remember hearing nothing but terrible reviews for Q2K, so I held off getting it.

But then I remember watching an old VH1 show called the Rock Show with Cane (that was a great show) and they played the video for Right Side and I was quite impressed. I thought this was an awesome tune and I didn't know what other people were talking about.

So I went out and bought Q2K and understood exactly what people were talking about. Sluggish boring album yet ends on a very awesome note. You don't see that all the time.

Offline Samsara

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I was at this show, too....didn't you get some hearing damage from it?  I remember this because it came up years ago on here, and I recall being surprised because it seemed normal volume to me, though I wasn't super close (maybe 1/3-1/2 way back on KG's side).

I did. I got tinitus after being in front of one of JJD band's speakers. I was right up front. Not sure what happened, but I was pretty disoriented and dizzy after it happened. I can't even remember the actual show, just some pre-show and post-show stuff. I think (just guess work) it blew out my ear drum or something, and I've had tinitus ever since. It was also the last show I ever attended without ear plugs. I learned my lesson in a very bad way. Regretted it every night, ever since.

Re: Right Side -- for sure, it harkens back to classic Queensryche, and really is the only song on the record that does, which is why I feel most who give it a lot of credit like it so much. But for me, Right Side would never make a top-15 list if the original band even wrote it. So, for me, while a top track on Q2k, it's still just "good" in comparison to the original lineup.

What I really preferred was when they deviated and just played. That's why I prefer songs such as Howl, Liquid Sky, and When the Rain Comes. Those were types of songs the original band really wouldn't have done (maybe something like WtRC would have).

In any event, it was an interesting time for the band. I also found my 2001 Q&A with Kelly Gray, which has some...interesting comments about Queensryche, Dream Theater, and other related issues for people to chew on. In the next write-up, I'll make sure to re-post the Q&A, and link to it for folks to read...
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Offline TAC

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Brian, this quote from you in the Maiden thread caught my eye, and it's something I've been thinking about..

  And Wilton had a bigger role in the earlier years than the Maiden guitarists had in songwriting. 

What the heck happened to him? I mean, with Q2K, we are entering some very choppy waters, and I have to wonder, where was Wilton during this time?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Samsara

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Brian, this quote from you in the Maiden thread caught my eye, and it's something I've been thinking about..

  And Wilton had a bigger role in the earlier years than the Maiden guitarists had in songwriting. 

What the heck happened to him? I mean, with Q2K, we are entering some very choppy waters, and I have to wonder, where was Wilton during this time?

Tim -- when you look back at the write-ups for Empire and PL, the band took a shift away from metal and aggressive riffs (for the most part). That was Wilton's wheelhouse. Recall also, the mentions of Whip allegedly having some issues himself after Empire (remember his alter ego SPIKE), and it all led to a period of limited writing from him.

When Chris left, Michael not only lost his partner in crime, but his best friend. So, I imagine all that together took a big toll on Wilton, along with the fact that he just didn't connect well with Tate much any longer because Tate wasn't feeling the type of riffs Wilton would do. It would take DeGarmo taking those riffs, and making a cool arrangement and adding stuff, to really connect with Tate. So there was an existing disconnect to a degree.

On Q2k, Michael was very much involved, but remember, he was also working with and helping teach Kelly the old stuff too. That's a whole relationship they needed to build. And because Kelly and Geoff were tight, and there was no real relationship between Wilton and Gray beforehand (other than knowing one another), it was no doubt a little awkward, I would think. That resulted in limited stuff from Wilton on Q2k. He was instrumental in Right Side, Falling Down, When the Rain Comes, and one other track. But they credited the whole thing to the entire band, because they all worked in tandem, together.

So, yeah, things with Wilton were on the decline, because of various factors. You also have to remember that Michael is a very...non-confrontational guy. I don't want to speak for him, and I don't really speak much with him any longer. But he's not one to push very hard. He doesn't like to make waves. If you're that type of personality, the band dynamic as it began to change after Empire, was not very conducive to Wilton.

There's also a lot of rumor out there that Chris really helped arrange Michael's stuff. I am not sure how true it is, but over the years, if you notice Michael's songs, their arrangements were a lot simpler than Chris'. And if Michael was having some...issues...during the PL and HITNF years (notice the much simpler arrangement on Reach from HITNF?), it wouldn't surprise me if DeGarmo just decided the heck with it, and he'd pick up the slack (which is personally what I think happened).

But after all that, it took a while until Wilton surfaced again. And he did, on Tribe. And we'll get to that in couple of entries, and you'll see how his disconnect with Tate really impacted the band, and how that disconnect led to the "Tateryche" era of Queensryche. It's not as complicated as I might have made it sound. Just personalities, differences in ideas, etc., just led to how things went.
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Offline TAC

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That is not at all complicated. :)

I have to chew on that for a bit though..
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline bosk1

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When Chris left, Michael not only lost his partner in crime, but his best friend. So, I imagine all that together took a big toll on Wilton, along with the fact that he just didn't connect well with Tate much any longer because Tate wasn't feeling the type of riffs Wilton would do. It would take DeGarmo taking those riffs, and making a cool arrangement and adding stuff, to really connect with Tate. So there was an existing disconnect to a degree.

To elaborate on this a bit, just from my own understanding:  I remember a comment on the PL CD Rom where I think it was Geoff talking about how Chris had this role of being able to take all of these disparate ideas and serve as the bridge to help Tate and the others communicate with one another, and he was the "glue" bringing it all together into songs that worked.  I think it is fairly apparent that that is exactly the role he played between Wilton and Tate.  Michael has come up with some cool stuff over the years.  But I think it took Chris in the band to take Michael's ideas from the EP through Promised Land and craft them into that multi-layered, complex Queensryche sound we are familiar with in that era.  With Chris doing that less on HITNF and then not at all afterward when he wasn't in the band, I think it is obvious why, even when you hear some tasty Wilton riffage or a cool Wilton solo, it pales in comparison to what he did when Chris was still in the band.  Jason Slater was able to emulate that a bit on Mindcrime II and American Soldier.  But there's a difference between someone coming in and analyzing what Chris did on the early albums and trying to emulate that vs. the person in Chris who just innately did it in those earlier years. 

I think you can also see it in the LaTorre era of the band.  They sound VERY different from the classic QR sound.  But there are similarities and a "modernized" return to form of sorts, and I attribute it to three things:  (1) Parker spent a lot of time early on really studying Chris and trying to emulate what Chris did on those early songs to try to play them faithfully. I give him a lot of credit for the amount of time he put in to really study and learn the subtleties and intricacies Chris brought to the CDG-era songs.  So having him as a playing/writing partner with Wilton now has, IMO, likely helped them get back to a sound that is more inline with the band's early-era than the Tateryche years.  (2) As an extension of #1, the entire band writes together a fair amount more now than they did in the Tateryche years, and you not only have Parker bringing what he brings to the table, but LaTorre, who has also carefully studied early QR and who is also a metalhead.  (3) Michael just coming out of his shell a bit more in the writing process than he was with Tate in the band and Chris absent.  The effect these things may or may not have had on Michael is just speculation on my part.  But to me, given what we DO know, and just observing the musical progression of the band, it makes sense to me.
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Offline romdrums

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I remember buying this on release day and listening to it quite a bit when it came out.  I was also a member of the fan club at this time.  They were really talking up the new guitar player, and I seem to remember they were excited about his comment to the effect of "putting the ass back in our music."  Should have raised a red flag for me, but I was inclined to think it meant they were going to go back in a harder direction after HITNF.  I remember some of the names being batted around as a possible replacement for DeGarmo, and the two that come to mind right now are Frank Aresti and Trevor Rabin, so the Kelly Gray choice seemed to come out of nowhere to me.  The album was decent, especially at the time and compared against its predecessor.  It hasn't aged well for me though. 

I also remember seeing them at the Orbit Room in Grand Rapids on that tour, and mostly feeling kinda sad that this was a band I had seen in arenas on their previous tours.  Set list was okay, but watching oven mitts butcher the Jet City Woman solo was a bit disappointing.  The other thing I remember from that show was some drunk asshole trying to start a fight with me because I didn't let him push me out of his way as he was trying to muscle his way toward the front.  He got right up in my face, trying to intimidate me, and my buddy looked at him and said, "it's not worth it dude."  He kept on to the front, and five minutes later, he was on the ground wrestling with some other dude.  Only time I've ever seen a fight at a show.   Because I was in the fan club, I got to meet the band afterwards. I remember Scott, Michael and Eddie being cool, Geoff was kind of a dick, and Kelly was only interested in trying to bang a groupie.  That kinda soured me on QR at that point.  It seemed like, to me,that when Chris left, he took the band's integrity with him.
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Offline TAC

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  and I seem to remember they were excited about his comment to the effect of "putting the ass back in our music."   
:lol
That just strikes me as funny. As in, no kidding!


When Chris left, Michael not only lost his partner in crime, but his best friend. So, I imagine all that together took a big toll on Wilton, along with the fact that he just didn't connect well with Tate much any longer because Tate wasn't feeling the type of riffs Wilton would do. It would take DeGarmo taking those riffs, and making a cool arrangement and adding stuff, to really connect with Tate. So there was an existing disconnect to a degree.

To elaborate on this a bit, just from my own understanding:  I remember a comment on the PL CD Rom where I think it was Geoff talking about how Chris had this role of being able to take all of these disparate ideas and serve as the bridge to help Tate and the others communicate with one another, and he was the "glue" bringing it all together into songs that worked.  I think it is fairly apparent that that is exactly the role he played between Wilton and Tate.  Michael has come up with some cool stuff over the years.  But I think it took Chris in the band to take Michael's ideas from the EP through Promised Land and craft them into that multi-layered, complex Queensryche sound we are familiar with in that era.  With Chris doing that less on HITNF and then not at all afterward when he wasn't in the band, I think it is obvious why, even when you hear some tasty Wilton riffage or a cool Wilton solo, it pales in comparison to what he did when Chris was still in the band.  Jason Slater was able to emulate that a bit on Mindcrime II and American Soldier.  But there's a difference between someone coming in and analyzing what Chris did on the early albums and trying to emulate that vs. the person in Chris who just innately did it in those earlier years. 

I think you can also see it in the LaTorre era of the band.  They sound VERY different from the classic QR sound.  But there are similarities and a "modernized" return to form of sorts, and I attribute it to three things:  (1) Parker spent a lot of time early on really studying Chris and trying to emulate what Chris did on those early songs to try to play them faithfully. I give him a lot of credit for the amount of time he put in to really study and learn the subtleties and intricacies Chris brought to the CDG-era songs.  So having him as a playing/writing partner with Wilton now has, IMO, likely helped them get back to a sound that is more inline with the band's early-era than the Tateryche years.  (2) As an extension of #1, the entire band writes together a fair amount more now than they did in the Tateryche years, and you not only have Parker bringing what he brings to the table, but LaTorre, who has also carefully studied early QR and who is also a metalhead.  (3) Michael just coming out of his shell a bit more in the writing process than he was with Tate in the band and Chris absent.  The effect these things may or may not have had on Michael is just speculation on my part.  But to me, given what we DO know, and just observing the musical progression of the band, it makes sense to me.


That all makes perfect sense. I just wonder what took Wilton, and the other guys, so long.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:23:56 PM by TAC »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline bosk1

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???  What is that abomination of a post?  I can't even tell what part is your and what part is mine.
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Offline TAC

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 :lol

Fixed.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol