MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[bosk1]

bill1971 retweeted

That's all well and good.  But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him.  If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion.  If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is.  Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done.  If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.

And it's great that some know "the full story."  But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.  If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine.  But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.

 

In regard to responding here -- I've been a member here forever. MP isn't bashed. MP is being criticized for being very loose with his words. And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.

Nailed it.

If MP has an issue with DTF, perhaps he needs to read the above paragraph I've just written.

He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email.  For whatever reason, it never seems to register.

[cramx3]

In regard to responding here -- I've been a member here forever. MP isn't bashed. MP is being criticized for being very loose with his words. And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.

Nailed it.

As someone who has posted negative criticism, this is exactly how I feel.  Also, how I feel pretty much all of DTF acts.

[Stadler]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Look in the other thread; Derek retweets something that is subject to some opinion as to whether it was "negative" or not (I think not, but it's up for discussion) and not three posts down someone says "Well, it's to be expected; he's been hanging out with MP and so it's logical that he would pick up Mike's bad habits."    What kind of nonsense is that?   

[Samsara]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Look in the other thread; Derek retweets something that is subject to some opinion as to whether it was "negative" or not (I think not, but it's up for discussion) and not three posts down someone says "Well, it's to be expected; he's been hanging out with MP and so it's logical that he would pick up Mike's bad habits."    What kind of nonsense is that?

Maybe some people would react like that, but the way I see this forum is that if someone out-and-out told MP to go F himself and insulted him, that person would be warned, and eventually banned. The mods and bosk1 ensure that. Just because someone may (if there were no restraints) say that to MP, doesn't mean it is actually permitted here. It's not (to my knowledge).

Let's just be clear -- there are some people who sadly will always be on an MP witch hunt.  But forum rules exist to not allow that sort of senseless BS. Granted, there's a fine line between criticism and bashing, and there are comments that straddle the line. But how do you know those people who cross it aren't warned and ultimately, stop? Last I checked, only the person warned and the mods/admin can see that history.

MP also has VERY thin skin. Any comment of criticism seems to always piss him off, even if it is meant in a constructive way because someone cares.

It's very messy. But if MP believes this forum bashes him, or if anyone else does, I think that's a very shallow view of this place, which is a mistake. It's structured so that pointless bashing isn't permitted, whereas criticism is. That's a distinction MP, and some of his apologists (not saying you, Stadler) should keep in mind.

It's also not an easy job walking that fine line as a mod/admin. You don't want to crack down too hard on people, but you also want to make sure the ideals of the forum are upheld. It's a lot harder than people think (trust me on that one), and most of the time, the admin/mods get shit on no matter what they do.

MP's statements tend to bring criticism. But if he wants a truly honest look at how what he says resonates, he need not look anywhere else but here. He just needs to thicken up his skin a bit, because it isn't going to be all flowers and rainbows all the time.

[bosk1]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. 

Then perhaps your expectations of how members of this forum should interact is not in line with how this site is run, and this might not be the place for you.  If your view of what is allowed and what actually occurs on this site is that skewed and biased, I don't know what to tell you.  Samsara's take is dead-on.

[bill1971]

And most of that criticism is meant (in my opinion) as constructive, with people wanting MP to do well, and carry himself better - -because we care about him being successful and appreciate the music he's helped create.


Samsara, I 100% agree.

[bill1971]

He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email.  For whatever reason, it never seems to register.


How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?

[bosk1]

He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email.  For whatever reason, it never seems to register.


How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?

It started off VERY negatively, with him making all sorts of accusations about the forum in general.  [So much so that Neal Morse, who was sitting next to him but didn't hear the conversation, and only picked up on the fact that Mike was upset and speaking in an upset tone of voice, turned to me and kind of came after me a bit as well]  I was taken aback, but didn't take it too personally because this was back in early 2010 or so, and this iteration of the Dream Theater forums with me running things was still fairly new.  I knew that a lot of his perceptions about the forums was second-hand, and was based on information about the how people acted on the old Dream Theater forum and on what had become 5/8, which has much different and much more loose rules about posting criticism.  I explained a lot of that and his tone changed somewhat and became much less icy.  But I still left feeling like he didn't really get it or care to get it, and had his mind made up.  And his subsequent demeanor toward the forums has soured me on that initial interaction.  Admittedly, because of that, my memory of the conversation may be somewhat tainted by the subsequent negativity.  But I don't think I am too far off. 

Scotty was also present for that conversation and may have a different take or may remember details I have forgotten.

[bill1971]

He has been told that very thing several times in the past, including hearing it from me face to face and via email.  For whatever reason, it never seems to register.


How was that conversation? I never heard this before. Was he cool about it?

It started off VERY negatively, with him making all sorts of accusations about the forum in general.  [So much so that Neal Morse, who was sitting next to him but didn't hear the conversation, and only picked up on the fact that Mike was upset and speaking in an upset tone of voice, turned to me and kind of came after me a bit as well]  I was taken aback, but didn't take it too personally because this was back in early 2010 or so, and this iteration of the Dream Theater forums with me running things was still fairly new.  I knew that a lot of his perceptions about the forums was second-hand, and was based on information about the how people acted on the old Dream Theater forum and on what had become 5/8, which has much different and much more loose rules about posting criticism.  I explained a lot of that and his tone changed somewhat and became much less icy.  But I still left feeling like he didn't really get it or care to get it, and had his mind made up.  And his subsequent demeanor toward the forums has soured me on that initial interaction.  Admittedly, because of that, my memory of the conversation may be somewhat tainted by the subsequent negativity.  But I don't think I am too far off. 

Scotty was also present for that conversation and may have a different take or may remember details I have forgotten.

Interesting, thank you. Did he know who you were or did you approach him? I guess what I am asking is how did the conversation come up?

[Stadler]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do. 

Then perhaps your expectations of how members of this forum should interact is not in line with how this site is run, and this might not be the place for you.  If your view of what is allowed and what actually occurs on this site is that skewed and biased, I don't know what to tell you.  Samsara's take is dead-on.

Maybe we're using "bashed" in a different way.  Bosk, I like it here - I like you, for what I know of you - and unless asked to leave, I'm going nowhere.   Perhaps it's my definition, because I agree with a lot of what Samsara wrote in his followup, and I really mean "hypercritical"?   I don't think the criticism goes overboard in the sense of being banable ("bannable"?) but I do think that at this point he doesn't garner too much benefit of the doubt from some people.    They may feel justified in that, and that's on them. 

[Zook]

Criticism: I think Stadler is an excellent artist, but he lacks certain techniques that are keeping him from excelling. With more practice he could be amazing.

Bashing: Your drawings SUUUUUUUUUJUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKK!

[KevShmev]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

[Madman Shepherd]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Yeah. There are exactly zero people who would say that.

 

bill1971 retweeted

That's all well and good.  But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him.  If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion.  If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is.  Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done.  If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.

And it's great that some know "the full story."  But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.  If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine.  But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.

Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama. 

[IDontNotDoThings]

 

bill1971 retweeted

That's all well and good.  But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him.  If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion.  If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is.  Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done.  If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.

And it's great that some know "the full story."  But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.  If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine.  But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.

Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama.
[/quote]

Drama? In this thread? No way

[Madman Shepherd]

Gah...I forgot the sarcastic green font!

[Stadler]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time).   I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike.  That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.   

[bill1971]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Yeah. There are exactly zero people who would say that.

 

bill1971 retweeted

That's all well and good.  But people here are not unfairly "bashing" him.  If something he posts or says makes him come across as a prick, that's on him, and it is fair game for discussion.  If something he posts or says is positive, that is likewise fair game for discussion about how great it is.  Nobody here is unfairly piling on for the sake of piling on--they are commenting on what he himself has said and done.  If his posts and public comments themselves weren't so frequently negative, you wouldn't see the negative reactions to them here.

And it's great that some know "the full story."  But, honestly, if you aren't willing to back up what you say with specifics, you don't really have a right to tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.  If you can't share what you know, or just don't think it is appropriate, or just don't want to, that's fine.  But, again, if you can't or won't provide facts, don't tell other people what to think.

Your opinion of the tweet is unclear. To speculate that you agree with it would just be starting drama.

Good point.  I would like everyone to guess which parts I agree with and omit the rest.

[Bertielee]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time).   I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike.  That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.

What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?

[bill1971]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time).   I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike.  That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.

What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?

I like that song, it's my favorite Muse song.

[gzarruk]

MP isn't bashed.

Couldn't disagree with that any more than I do.  Maybe not by EVERYONE, but there are a certain number of people here that if he gave them a medium coffee from Dunkin Donuts, milk no sugar, their first response would be "why medium, you cheap fuck?  And I like Starbucks, with sugar next time".

Always with the extreme, imaginary scenarios.

Well, there is SOME hyperbole, but only to (try to) keep it light and interesting (especially given where this went last time).   I'm just expressing my opinion that some - not all, but some - could give more of the benefit of the doubt to Mike.  That they don't is purely up to them, and they don't have to do a single thing I say, but while I agree that in a literal sense "zero people would say that", Mike didn't write "Never Enough" for no reason at all.

What?!? He didn't write it for himself?!?

I like that song, it's my favorite Muse song.

 

[cramx3]

Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI

and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/

Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."

[gzarruk]

Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI

and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/

Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."

FOR THE FANS 

[cramx3]

Just finished watching the video, really enjoyed the series.  I think reading that blabbermouth article gave me a different impression than actually watching the interview (as is usually the case, especially with blabbermouth). 

[bill1971]

Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI

and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/

Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."

FOR THE FANS 

Yeah, I agree with the for the fans. That gets old, but other than that there was no real drama I thought. He said if they called, he would do it.  Although I don't know why he equates playing older material with wanting ex members back in the band though.

Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.

[SwedishGoose]

He probably still needs to forgive that they did not go with his idea of a hiatus of indetermined time.... even when he said he would settle for a five year hiatus they told him no.

[JayOctavarium]

https://youtu.be/kj_8E3FOU4s?t=6s

[gzarruk]

Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.

https://youtu.be/kj_8E3FOU4s?t=6s

Indeed.

[SwedishGoose]

But mayby in his eyes he was forced to leave the band as they did not budge and allow a hiatus instead...

[bosk1]

Part 3 is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLxqNFXKQtI

and there's already a blabbermouth article...https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-i-have-no-longing-to-reunite-with-dream-theater/

Asked in a new interview with Rockhok how sure he is that he will never get on stage with DREAM THEATER again, Portnoy said (see video below): "Well, I normally dodge these questions, but I'll answer it. The ball's in their court, to be honest. I have no longing to reunite with them; it's not something I necessarily am looking to do or want to do. I'm very content with all the eighty-seven bands I currently have going, so it's something I need. But I would do it for the fans, because I'm a very sentimental person and I have a lot of great, fond memories of those guys and the times. I'm a sentimental guy, so I would never close the door on it. So, really, the ball's in their court, honestly. [But] if you're asking me the odds [of a reunion happening], I would say, don't bet on it, because I know their personalities as well and I don't think they're the type that are looking backwards. Although they're out there playing [the 1992 DREAM THEATER album] 'Images And Words' [in its entirety on tour], but that's their choice."

FOR THE FANS 

Yeah, I agree with the for the fans. That gets old, but other than that there was no real drama I thought. He said if they called, he would do it.  Although I don't know why he equates playing older material with wanting ex members back in the band though.

Also I don't know why he would need to forgive them. He left the band.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where is "forgiveness" even mentioned? 

EDIT:  Never mind.  I didn't read the article and was going off of what was quoted.  I see it now.  Yeah, I mean, as far as what you said, there really isn't anything to "forgive" on its face.  But I don't really hold that comment against him because: (1) he may subjectively feel that that he was "wronged" by the band not hearing him out and understanding his need for a hiatus, or (2) something that may have happened or may have been said behind the scenes that we know nothing about, or (3) the band not responding to him when he was attempting to communicate with them after the break during the time they were going through all the legal stuff, or (4) something we just know nothing about.  But in any case, not a big deal that he said that, IMO.

I do somewhat take umbrage with his repeated "the ball is in their court."  Not that there's anything wrong with that on its face.  But it somewhat implies that the band should make the call, and it is again sort of passively deflecting and saying "it's them, not me.  I'd do it for you guys, the fans, but they aren't making it happen."  Even if that isn't what he means, again, it's on him to measure his words and their impact before he utters them.  But again, in the grand scheme of things, not a huge deal. 

[SwedishGoose]

In the video he talks about forgiving..... although not clearly about forgiving DT. He talks about how he would be open to meet up with any of the bands he has played in and mentions Transatlantic and O.S.I

[Zook]

He doesn't hold grudges, but he hates at least one Canadian.

[devieira73]

About the interview, I was avoiding to listen some Shattered Fortress performance, because hopefully I'll be at São Paulo show, but... well, I'm really impressed from what I heard/saw on the footage's interview, specially the vocal departament, VERY good job! Ross is very close of James tone, amazing!
I like a lot the part where MP talked about Derek to "reclaim back the progressive metal throne!". That's the spirit, guys! I'm sure they will loose this fight (DT team ), but I'm also pretty sure that they'll make a great album in this crusade! 
Just a question, that I guess nobody has never asked or the band never adressed about: why Kevin Moore haven't any writting credit on ACoS and neither Derek on any part of SFaM?

[JiM-Xtreme]

To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.

...anyone see what I did there?   

[JayOctavarium]

To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.

...anyone see what I did there?   

gtfo

[bill1971]

To me the most interesting tidbit from that interview was that he would consider reuniting with O.S.I. I was rather under the impression that, given his past comments about his experience with them, he would never be open to playing with Kevin Moore again.

...anyone see what I did there?   

The ball is in Kevin Moore's court.