*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[hefdaddy42]

OH!  I can't place it.......

Neither could Carol.

True story.

[TheAtliator]

Bosk mentioned something a while ago indicating there was another video coming after the Gift of Music video... Was this new trailer it? Is there still something coming? Now I've had my hopes up for weeks 

And why do they still have the trailer (the old one) as both video links on the website?

[MirrorMask]

I see that they decided to scrap Xander flying on a raven 

[mike099]

I see that they decided to scrap Xander flying on a raven 

never more, never more

[JRuless]

https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

[Kotowboy]

As much as I love Green Day - I think they milked American Idiot . I hope Dream Theater just don't milk The Astonishing for the next few years.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRE3VT8tvM

Amazing tone !!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.

[KevShmev]

After listening to TA non-stop for like a month, putting it away for a couple weeks, and coming back to it in the last few days, I apparently have come around to now liking The Walking Shadow, largely because JP's riffage in it is pretty freaking great.  I can't say I still like some of the vocal melodies in it, but I do like the song now as a whole. How about that?

[SebastianPratesi]

Hi, Sebastian!
The interviewer only asked him about a brazilian tour and he answered that there will be one, without mention any dates. So I imagine that there will be another South American Tour, like it's happening the last 10 years. I suppose (JP didn't say that too) maybe that it will be in a fewer cities as the usual, like they're doing in Europe now.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.

Thanks as well! I've been learning some stuff on the album, so this one was very useful - wether because I was playing some riffs the wrong way, or because I was playing other ones the right way.

[BlobVanDam]

As much as I love Green Day - I think they milked American Idiot . I hope Dream Theater just don't milk The Astonishing for the next few years.

I don't think they'll milk it at all, but clearly they felt the story warranted other media to tell the complete story and use these elements that went underused. I don't think there will be anything excessive.

[GasparXR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRE3VT8tvM

Amazing tone !!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sLmlhPZ9U&ebc=ANyPxKr5GsosIX-qL3Y8LhlR_LPj5PMdYxJOtW00WE9rbgs_epagXVCTxT1YVo7xdYc3GEeFyGjfnD0iPx6rgsg1jri_0UKcrg

JP showing us some riffs from the Astonishing.

Interesting, Our New World I think is the only song other than Home where JP uses the Dropped D tuning, unless you count Misunderstood when played live.

[cramx3]

After listening to TA non-stop for like a month, putting it away for a couple weeks, and coming back to it in the last few days, I apparently have come around to now liking The Walking Shadow, largely because JP's riffage in it is pretty freaking great.  I can't say I still like some of the vocal melodies in it, but I do like the song now as a whole. How about that?

This was a song that hit me as very enjoyable after many listens, specifically for the same reason, JP's riffage.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeOdfefj5OI

Here's my slightly wobbly cover of the Saviour In the Square solo.

[rumborak]

https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.

[cramx3]

https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.

Even as someone who really likes the new album, I would prefer they just focus on the music and not dwell on the TA universe in other ways than the album as presented.

[bosk1]

I don't think they are overly concerned about any "danger."  It would be one thing if they were bent on making this a commercial success.  But I think the point is simply to make a big artistic statement, whether that statement is well-received or not.  And part of JP's artistic vision is to have the complete story told in several media forms, which this accomplishes.  If the novel and game achieve only very modest success, I think that will be fine with them.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think the investment in the book and game are going to be that large anyway, and I expect they wouldn't do it if it wasn't worth it. The game is a mobile game that seems like it will be based on existing framework. Getting the book done may have been part of the groundwork for the album story anyway, and I imagine a DT book would do alright, perhaps even for people who aren't sold on the concept as a rock opera.

[Enigmachine]

https://www.yahoo.com/music/dream-theater-live-out-sci-fi-fantasies-with-the-000938042.html

Nice read and a confirmation about the earlier announced novel

Do what they must of course, but ... there is a distinct danger that this will fall very, very flat on its face. A smartphone game, a novel, all for an album that frankly has received VERY mixed reviews.

so mixed

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Here's my impression of how the album has been reviewed by listener base:

- Press: Very good reception in general, above average compared to most Dream Theater albums
- Hardcore fans: Very good reception, only time will tell if the strong reception holds
- Fans of the genre: Good reception, based on Prog Archives
- Non-fans: Mixed reception, based on AllMusic, Amazon, and Rate Your Music

Obviously this is far from scientific and I probably got something completely wrong, but for what it's worth, that's my speculation.

[cramx3]

Are the fans showing up to the shows?  I think attendance is the best way to see how well liked this album is. 

[Enigmachine]

Are the fans showing up to the shows?  I think attendance is the best way to see how well liked this album is.

Yes. The show I was at was pretty much sold out. I think the other dates have been similar.

Here's my impression of how the album has been reviewed by listener base:

- Press: Very good reception in general, above average compared to most Dream Theater albums
- Hardcore fans: Very good reception, only time will tell if the strong reception holds
- Fans of the genre: Good reception, based on Prog Archives
- Non-fans: Mixed reception, based on AllMusic, Amazon, and Rate Your Music

Obviously this is far from scientific and I probably got something completely wrong, but for what it's worth, that's my speculation.

I think that impression seems accurate. Not that mixed really, mostly postitive overall.

[rumborak]

so mixed

I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.

[cramx3]

Still got an 80 on metacritic which should take into account the negative as well?

I don't know what is considered a good score on metacritic though.

[Enigmachine]

I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.

Right, because these ones are so cherry picked (ADToE and DT12 respectively):



Cherry picking would not have let a 3 or 5 out of 10 get through. Sure, many reviews are missed for TA (but it's similar for DT12 and ADToE), but many of those reviews are immensely positive with a ton of 10/10 reviews. The mixed ones are outliers from what I've seen and the negative ones basically non-existent.

Still got an 80 on metacritic which should take into account the negative as well?

I don't know what is considered a good score on metacritic though.

If it's green, it's considered well-received. TA is green.

[rumborak]

RYM and Sputnik have an accumulative 1000 ratings, and they rate it as the lowest of DT's discography. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that somehow for this album 1,000 people would go on a crusade against DT, where for earlier albums they wouldn't.

[Enigmachine]

The majority of the people listening to TA do not rate on either site. Neither do the majority of the people attending the concerts rate on either site.

[rumborak]

That's a rather grand claim.

[Enigmachine]

It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I find that Wiki page really disingenuous frankly. It cherry-picked the nice ones, and completely disregard whole sites altogether.

1. I have made contributions to that page and I honestly couldn't find any press reviews in English that were negative. I've been going to Pop Matters each week to see if they posted their review because they usually blast DT (they gave the self-titled a 3/10). I've also checked Sputnik and I don't believe they've posted a staff review either. If you know of a negative, English-speaking review that would be considered an appropriate source by Wikipedia, by all means let me know.

2. Wikipedia does not allow for ratings from sites like Rate Your Music to be listed in those review blocks. They only want formal press reviews.

[rumborak]

It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

2. Wikipedia does not allow for ratings from sites like Rate Your Music to be listed in those review blocks. They only want formal press reviews.

And that is problematic, to say the least. Official press ratings have their own bias; they need to maintain their stream of pre-release material, so they can't afford to be honest in many cases.
EDIT: In particular I find it weird that it would allow Metacritic, which has an entirely arbitrary accumulation and weighting scheme.

[SebastianPratesi]

Also: suddenly (for the past year or 2) the band/album has been talked about in Rolling Stone much more than in the past, I think. They premiered "The Gift Of Music" + John's first interview in December. I don't remember the band getting this attention from Rolling Stone with earlier albums. That's gotta mean something good, right?

[noxon]

Having spoken to quite a few fans over the past few months, and having spoken to the band and management about the fan reaction, this album has been pretty well recieved by a majority of the fan base. The reception at the shows have been for the most part good (aside from the ever present "james can't sing" complaints and the "band is stiff as poles" complaints).

The mixed reaction isn't a new thing with DT - it has existed for every single album release. The "problem" now is that there's a large portion of the metal fan base and the "bring mike portnoy back" fan base that are extremely vocal. But you're forgetting - this knee-jerk reaction was there for Train of Thought as well - and in fact, a lot of fans dropped DT because of albums like Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos being too focused on the heavy. A lot of the people I've seen reactions from now are actually old fans that were much more into the 90's version of DT.

So the band and management does not see it as a failure - a failure would be cancelled shows due to low ticket sales. We're not seeing that. It's not an album or a tour that brings in the money - but I think it scratched an itch that needed to be scratched both for JP and JR.

[Enigmachine]

It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

And how do we know that the people who rate DT albums on Sput/RYM are mostly DT fans? Oh wait, we don't. Both sites are increasingly prone to troll ratings and is often a place to vent for negative opinions. I wouldn't class the clusters of people who gave TA the lowest score on RYM 'DT fans', that's just not very likely.

[rumborak]

It's even more grand to suggest the opposite.

How so? By default, unless one has good reason to believe otherwise, one should assume that there is no difference in demographic between DT fans who go to concerts and DT fans who rate an album on Sputnik and RYM.

And how do we know that the people who rate DT albums on Sput/RYM are mostly DT fans? Oh wait, we don't. Both sites are increasingly prone to troll ratings and is often a place to vent for negative opinions. I wouldn't class the clusters of people who gave TA the lowest score on RYM 'DT fans', that's just not very likely.

RYM and Sputnik have rated DT albums normally in the past, much like DTF rates them. Again, unless you have a compelling reason for why this would be different for TA, one must assume the demographic of voters is the same as with previous albums.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

And that is problematic, to say the least. Official press ratings have their own bias; they need to maintain their stream of pre-release material, so they can't afford to be honest in many cases.
EDIT: In particular I find it weird that it would allow Metacritic, which has an entirely arbitrary accumulation and weighting scheme.

I actually agree with you that it would be very helpful to be able to include RYM and other public scores. I'm honestly not sure why those sorts of things are frowned upon.

At the same time, Amazon's adjusted score would be an 8/10, Prog Archive's would be a 7.2, AllMusic's would be an 8, and Rate Your Music's would be a 5.4, so the average of those is pretty similar to the average of the press reviews that are there (obviously a littler lower, but not drastically).