Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I agree that in their post MP era, DT hasn't lived much to their 'we're going to speak a lot to the fans' stance that they took in their first post-MP months.

I know.  Bummer.  They never talk to the fans at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx8cLlXnHpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrsD2JF6Q8

Yeah, those were cool things obviously, but even without those live chats you would get 80% more info from Portnoy in social media back then.

[erwinrafael]

I also gotta say, as a Bostonian here, it's not that we're in a Katrina-esque state here. We got FEMA helping out, and given that we usually know two days before when another snow storm will hit, you can easily plan around it. Meaning, if MM wanted to be in New York, he would be in New York. I myself went to, and came back, from Florida during all this.

As can be seen from his post, he has kids to think about.

First thing I thought when I read this in FB was I hope he is ok.

[rumborak]

Come on, seriously. Yes, it's a ton of snow. But, it's a nuisance, at best. The roads are cleared, all you have to do to get to New York is to get in a car and drive to Logan airport.
I would also think that DT management has the wherewithals to hire a snow clearing service and a nanny if need be.
All I'm saying is, I think it just shows he's not considered a key ingredient in the current phase of writing for a) him going down there or b) DT pushing out the schedule. The fact that he agreed to play the UK shows kinda seems to go into the same direction.

[King Postwhore]

I know this may piss off drummers but for the most part, I think that they are not involved in the writing process but are involved in shaping the song and making they mark once they all get together to round the songs up.

In bold so no drummer loses their mind.  I do understand some are involved.

[Kotowboy]

PREDICTION.


Gonna go out on a limb here.


DT 13 will be...




.. Released....


..Before Metallica 10 and Tool 5

[Calvin6s]

I know this may piss off drummers but for the most part, I think that they are not involved in the writing process but are involved in shaping the song and making they mark once they all get together to round the songs up.

In bold so no drummer loses their mind.  I do understand some are involved.

An example of the exception would be Virgil Donati.

But why are drummers given so little credit for the drum parts they come up with as if they are less than some of the melodic content.  And when it comes to metal (especially prog), drums probably add more to the song than bass.

[Skeever]

Yeah it is pretty obvious that if MM needed to be at the studio, he could be. He doesn't need to be there right now, especially if it's unsafe or inconvenient to be there.

Guys, hate to be the spoiler, but the idea that DT are five guys who get together and write their albums together is just that - an idea. Hasn't been true for years. JP writes the vast majority of the material, the other guys show up and contribute later on, James does everything from Canada now. This isn't a hungry young band of guys sharing the same flat and same practice space every night. This is a well oiled machine. If that sounds controversial, you haven't read the later version of Lifting Shadows.

EDIT: Most concerning of all this info to me is the fact that Mangini is already booked to play with another band when he could be in the studio with the band. To me that seems like poor planning at best, lack of commitment and taking ownership of his role as the DT drummer at worst. Not saying it *is* that way, but those are the things that have me a bit worried.

[rumborak]

I think I've done it months ago in another thread, but if I had to put percentages on what my impression of each person's contributions to the writing process are:

Music - JP 85%, JR 10%, JM 2%, MM 2%, JLB 1%
Lyrics - JP 60%, JLB 30%, JM 10%

EDIT: I should point out, I'm not saying someone is telling JM or MM what exactly to play. I think what they play there came up with themselves. But the creative part lies squarely in JP's and JR's hands.

[erwinrafael]

My own assumption is the reverse. With the short  production time, MM working in his home studio, MM going on a short tour with UK, DT booking tour dates early, these all point to me that the songs are already substantially completed. They were not starting from scratch.

These are professionals. They know what they are doing.

[erwinrafael]

Come on, seriously. Yes, it's a ton of snow. But, it's a nuisance, at best. The roads are cleared, all you have to do to get to New York is to get in a car and drive to Logan airport.
I would also think that DT management has the wherewithals to hire a snow clearing service and a nanny if need be.
All I'm saying is, I think it just shows he's not considered a key ingredient in the current phase of writing for a) him going down there or b) DT pushing out the schedule. The fact that he agreed to play the UK shows kinda seems to go into the same direction.

You are assuming that MM is talking about snow as blocking roads and stuff. Based on his post, I don't think that is what he is referring to. He talks about snow management, his kids at home, the snow at one side of the house, the snow at the front lawn. This indicates to me that MM is concerned not with road conditions but rather with the danger the snow posed at his home and his family. So he chose to stay at home.

I am a father to a very young child and I have cancelled business trips when typhoons threaten the security of my family. That's how I read MM's post based on the context clues in his post.

[Skeever]

I think "get everyone in the same room and write and record our album simultaneously" was more of an MP thing, looking back. The man was always on a tight schedule, DT could finish an album in a few weeks that way.

With MP gone, I speculate that JP prefers more of a piecemeal approach. He'll write a lot, the other guys will bring some ideas or make some modifications when they visit the studio. I honestly would not be surprised if JP has several full demos ready by the time the whole band get together (if that happens at all). JLB does his vocals from Canada now, and MM is capable of recording at home too. I'd be surprised if they don't all video the studio at one point but I would not be surprised at all if they don't really meet as a group until it's time for tour rehearsal.

Plenty of bands function that way.

[Calvin6s]

I didn't even see the MM facebook post quoted here until now.  That is a bit depressing, especially the UK dates somebody else brought up.  Maybe MM just isn't the songwriting type.  It doesn't matter that Petrucci is the main songwriter.  As most that have written a song will tell you, real collaboration can really bring out the best in everybody.  So even if Petrucci came up with the actual riffs/progressions/melodies, there is something to be said for having a collaborator there to say "hey.  Instead of going into this next section that way, what if we did something like .... ?"  That person doesn't have to even write that part.  They could just be talking about a tempo, meter, chord change or just overall feel that they relate communicate by relating to another song/artist.

If MM is just following along to a pre-written structure, it really limits his effect on the song.

[erwinrafael]

MM did say that he is writing drum patterns and "riffs". Riffs. MM is writing riffs.

I also think that people here are understating the MM effect on the DT12 songs. There are songs where the MM contributions are obvious (Illumination Theory, Enigma Machine, the odd-timed rolls in Surrender to Reason, the STR instrumentals which has one of the weirdest rhythmic structures I have heard, and some portions of TEI). Trained ears would also hear that the cohesiveness of the songs in DT12 is different, even from the ADTOE songs which MM played. The orchestration is also very different.

[evz]

could be they are sharing ideas, like JP sent out a batch of riffs, "here are a bunch of ideas, see what you come up with and we'll start piecing them together when we get to the studio..."

There's a lot of ways to approach things. 

[goo-goo]

My concern is the "commitment" from MM to DT. Wasn't that the reason Minnemamn didn't accept the gig( (he didnt want to be committed to just DT) in the first place?

Other than that, there are many ways to record, especially with Mangini having his own studio. I don't Mike would miss a beat.

[erwinrafael]

My concern is the "commitment" from MM to DT. Wasn't that the reason Minnemamn didn't accept the gig( (he didnt want to be committed to just DT) in the first place?

Wouldn't that concern be overblown? The guy left a full-time job as a professor in a prestigious music university. He's doing a short fill-in gig for Virgil Donati, and is working at home for "snow management" while record-levels of snow is falling on Boston. Give the guy a break.

[goo-goo]

My concern is the "commitment" from MM to DT. Wasn't that the reason Minnemamn didn't accept the gig( (he didnt want to be committed to just DT) in the first place?

Wouldn't that concern be overblown? The guy left a full-time job as a professor in a prestigious music university. He's doing a short fill-in gig for Virgil Donati, and is working at home for "snow management" while record-levels of snow is falling on Boston. Give the guy a break.

I don't have a problem with the snow management and to be with his family. I would probably have done the same. I was just try to say that this is similar to what happened to MP. He started doing outside projects and whatnot and suddenly, he was out of DT. I'm not saying that him playing with Avengefold was the only reason why he left, but it definitely made at least, a small influence on MPs decision.

Second, DT's gig is probably most lucrative than being a prof at Berkeley. I would have left Berkeley to join DT if I was given that choice as well because it would have benefited me musically, professionally, and financially.

[erwinrafael]

MP asked for a 5 year break.

MM is doing a two week fill in for a band that has a farewell tour and has Virgil Donati as its full time drummer.

It's not even remotely the same.

[Skeever]

MP asked for a 5 year break.

MM is doing a two week fill in for a band that has a farewell tour and has Virgil Donati as its full time drummer.

It's not even remotely the same.

Agreed but it seems odd that he would allow himself to be booked during the couple months window every 2-3 years when DT actually write and record new albums.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I think you guys are looking way too much into this. We don't even know what they're doing in the studio right now.

[Prog Snob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmJGXcxfmjY

[erwinrafael]

I think you guys are looking way too much into this. We don't even know what they're doing in the studio right now.

Jordan is playing with his new Linnstrument.

Agreed but it seems odd that he would allow himself to be booked during the couple months window every 2-3 years when DT actually write and record new albums.

I think this actually indicates that they are expecting to already be finished by that time. So most likely, they are already well into the songwriting process already.

[hefdaddy42]

I think you guys are looking way too much into this. We don't even know what they're doing in the studio right now.

Goddammit, this is DTF, I don't even know why you would say such things.



Yeah I do.

[the_silent_man]

While I am concerned about the time  period, I just remembered that petrucci said in January of last year that they'd already started formulating song ideas. Maybe they did do a lot while on tour

[Mladen]

If they're taking a different approach this time around, maybe that means something exciting in terms of chemistry and creative process.

[fadetoblackdude7]

If they're taking a different approach this time around, maybe that means something exciting in terms of chemistry and creative process.

This. Different way of 'shaking it up'. Instead of throwing off the album release schedule, they find a different way of making them.

[Skeever]

If they're taking a different approach this time around, maybe that means something exciting in terms of chemistry and creative process.

I don't really think that's the case, I think it's more just sinking in for some people that this is how they've been doing things since MP left.

[Sycsa]

If MM records in his own studio, on his own terms, that might be real beneficial for the drum sound.

[rumborak]

That would be great, yeah. Gavin Harrison does it that way too, and his drum sounds are spectacular.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Right now, we have just enough evidence to jump to wild conclusions.

If you're the negative sort, you could look at MM over the last six or so months and start to wonder if he's losing interest in DT. He seemed miffed at the compression/production of his drums on DT12 in the one interview, then he's decides to play a few shows for another band, and now we find out he's not in the studio two weeks into recording. Given the level of consistent enthusiasm in his tooooooone when he joined, it isever so slightly noticeable. Maybe the honeymoon is over and Mangini, who is, after all, over 50, is finding this isn't as fulfilling as he wanted. If therewere issues, we likely wouldn't know until a split happened, this being well-oiled PR-machine-era DT. John Petrucci isn't going to take to Twitter and decry Mike's absence from the studio.

Or...if you're the positive type, John Petrucci explicitly noted that they were "planting seeds" for the new album in the last tour, perhaps even early in the tour if I recall. Granted, he/DT have always said they jam and record ideas at soundchecks etc. and occasionally they make it on the album, but it seems like on past cycles, it was always downplayed, like "Yeah, we jam and it's cool, and every now and then, something makes it on." Knowing how carefully Petrucci chooses words, maybe this a real indicator of either a concept album or a change in approach. This is further underscored by the fact that we have yet to see a real studio update two weeks in and that Mike isn't needed in the studio yet.

Either conclusion (or anything in between) has multiple data points that could back it (if you squint), but the meanings of all of them are so fluid that it's all beyond mere speculation (nothing wrong with that, given that we're a fanbase and this is what we have to go on right now). Personally, I suppose I'm more on the optimistic side, but frankly nothing would shock me. Given the nature of DT, anything could be going on behind closed doors. Heck, when Portnoy--one of metal's most communicative, open musicians--left, that came out of the blue. Imagine how little warning we'd get of a member quitting, or other turmoil, in the DT camp nowadays.

Wow, more of this post is about the possibility of MM leaving than I thought. Again, don't think it's likely. Just making a broader comment on the nature of DT information nowadays and where that puts our minds at this point in the cycle. Here's hoping that the latest round of news is evidence of a revitalized band trying new things--or, that they're trying old things with some weird snow delays, and that a great album will come out of it anyway. Disappointed as I've been with their last two releases, I'm going in with reasonably high expectations.

As a complete aside, those of you who were talking about James doing everything in Canada--wasn't he with the band on DT12? I thought it was just ADTOE where he was in Canada. If so, a bit presumptuous to cite as evidence of some sort of drifting apart of the band.

[erwinrafael]

MM has posted an intriguing update.

Jordan Rudess will make music out of this.

Electronic drum kit. 4/4. Habanero.

Exciting times.

[PetFish]

I've been trying to avoid this thread.

It feels like a tabloid show where every little thing is taken out of context and scrutinized and insane conclusions and predictions and assumptions are made... and some are rather harsh.

Can't we just let Dream Theater make their music and judge them based on that?  Who cares how they do it or how long it takes, let the results carry them or bury them.

[erwinrafael]

MM UPDATE

Some of you are wondering what I'm playing while snowed in. Mainly, I am redoing my leg technique to not hit as hard. Mind you, what I'm putting below is an exercise for being snowed in. It is not meant to be "groovy" mannnn smile emoticon I'm working on lighter played single foot tempos between patterns that keep my mind occupied.

 Here's an example: My ride side plays a 19/8 sticking, while the left hand plays points that resemble 17/8, while the left foot plays the in between 16th notes, while my mind is basing the whole thing in say, a 6 or 7-tuplet, or just in 4/4. I then flip it to totally lefty, or I reassign limbs with no 'side' preference, which is actually easy after knowing the sound of the whole mess. The bad thing is that there are no limbs to reflect what my mind hears, so it is kind of useless unless there's music to designate the "one" of every 7, or whatever my base time tuplet is. No groove to it if you can't hear the base groove tuplet. Anyway... I know... "make a video !" comments are coming. Rudess will make music of this, trust me!

 I'm also working on electronic kit sounding simple, 4/4 grooves using some over the bar ride patterns just to give it some habanero spice. It is stuff that kids can feel, so it sort of pleases all.

[YtseJamittaja]

[erwinrafael]

And JR is on the other end of the line going