New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[JayOctavarium]

I don't mind the slow album tempo. Makes the song last longer... Lol

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

[Grizz]

Why do we need to go through the same damn discussions every five minutes here? A live setting and an album are two very different environments.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Why do we need to go through the same damn discussions every five minutes here? A live setting and an album are two very different environments.

hey but you're not mad are you

[Grizz]

Nah, I've just been stressed lately. I've been dealing with so many assholes in the past week that I could major in proctology and breeze through college. Sorry, I just tend to lash out at statements that I disagree with.

[erwinrafael]

Why do we need to go through the same damn discussions every five minutes here? A live setting and an album are two very different environments.

Because same complaints get rehashed all the time. And yes, a live setting and an album are very different environments. But it's not an excuse for being sloppy and always playing fast just because you are playing live. If it's a guy playing live in a music school recital, he would get failing marks.

[BlobVanDam]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Because what works in the studio always translates identically live.
TSCO sounds downright plodding on LALP at studio tempo. Other songs sound fine. But one size does not fit all.

[TheGreatPretender]

Hey, as I recall, back before they were using a click track, when Portnoy was in the band, there were plenty of times when he actually played certain parts slower, and sometimes the change in pacing for those parts would be so noticeable that it almost felt like he was getting ready to stop all together, so it's not like without a click track you'd always get faster, more energetic performances.

[BlobVanDam]

It's not necessarily about playing faster, it's about pushing the tempos in whatever way suits the live atmosphere better. I don't recall any tempos being that much slower than album tempo though, except maybe parts of Surrounded?

[TheGreatPretender]

It's not necessarily about playing faster, it's about pushing the tempos in whatever way suits the live atmosphere better. I don't recall any tempos being that much slower than album tempo though, except maybe parts of Surrounded?

Well, there were times when it just started sounding sluggish whenever MP slowed it down. Maybe not so much in the recent years, but I have heard it happening in various bootleg footage and such. The intro of Pull Me Under would just start chugging, and not in a good way, lol. It would pick up once JLB started singing, but still, that intro.. Now THAT was slogging.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Because what works in the studio always translates identically live.
TSCO sounds downright plodding on LALP at studio tempo. Other songs sound fine. But one size does not fit all.

Yeah I know, different drummers/feels and everything, but I don't think that "horribly slow and dragging" is not a tempo thing because as we all know already they play to a click track, but a performance thing. If you match the live version with the studio counterpart they will fit perfectly, but there's definitely a performing difference which may result in a different feel. I don't like the Luna Park version of Spirit Carries On because it sounds weak (compared to both Live Scenes and Score versions) and  not because it's slow, for example.

[BlobVanDam]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Because what works in the studio always translates identically live.
TSCO sounds downright plodding on LALP at studio tempo. Other songs sound fine. But one size does not fit all.

Yeah I know, different drummers/feels and everything, but I don't think that "horribly slow and dragging" is not a tempo thing because as we all know already they play to a click track, but a performance thing. If you match the live version with the studio counterpart they will fit perfectly, but there's definitely a performing difference which may result in a different feel. I don't like the Luna Park version of Spirit Carries On because it sounds weak (compared to both Live Scenes and Score versions) and  not because it's slow, for example.

I dislike it because it's both weak AND slow. The tempo is the main problem for that song on LALP for me though. The lighter sounding drums aren't a huge issue for a laid back song like that, but once it hit the outro, it needed to push the tempo a bit. The LSFNY and Score versions really nail the feel for that song.

[erwinrafael]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Because what works in the studio always translates identically live.
TSCO sounds downright plodding on LALP at studio tempo. Other songs sound fine. But one size does not fit all.

Hmmm, quite a feel for tempo that you have right there. I just timed the LALP version and the Score version, and LALP was at 127 bpm, while the Score version is at 128 - 130 bpm.

[BlobVanDam]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Because what works in the studio always translates identically live.
TSCO sounds downright plodding on LALP at studio tempo. Other songs sound fine. But one size does not fit all.

Hmmm, quite a feel for tempo that you have right there. I just timed the LALP version and the Score version, and LALP was at 127 bpm, while the Score version is at 128 - 130 bpm.

Hm you're right. I measure the studio outro at ~128, Score at ~130 and LSFNY at ~132 (too lazy to pull out LALP to measure, but I assume it's basically studio). Maybe the complete lack of dynamics on LALP is a bigger factor than I realized. That outro just sounds painfully plodding on LALP. It needed to ramp it up, but it just fell flat.
I'll have to check some of the other songs that felt too slow on LALP and see how the tempos compare.

[erwinrafael]

Maybe it was more about the dynamics and the mix than the tempo. The mix  of the LALP TSCO sounded really bare, with the drums sounding really thin and and a very low rhythm section, while Score version sounded fuller and heavier.

[BlobVanDam]

Maybe it was more about the dynamics and the mix than the tempo. The mix  of the LALP TSCO sounded really bare, with the drums sounding really thin and and a very low rhythm section, while Score version sounded fuller and heavier.

You could be right. The weak drum mix on LALP is definitely a factor, I just didn't realize how much steam it took out of that song in particular. Now that you've measured it, I'm curious to measure the numbers on the other songs that felt too slow to me on LALP to see if that is most of the problem.
There were also a couple of moments on BTFW that were a touch too slow for my liking though, but it was much less of an issue than it was on LALP. I'm glad they finally got a great drum sound with MM, and I hope it continues through to the next album.

[erwinrafael]

In BtFW, the "fast" part of Strange Deja is around 142 bpm. In LSFNY, that portion is really inconsistent, ranging from as low as 146 bpm to 150 bpm. Maybe the faster tempo gives LSFNY more energy, but the consistent tempo in BtFW surely made the cowbell hits sound better. 

[BlobVanDam]

In BtFW, the "fast" part of Strange Deja is around 142 bpm. In LSFNY, that portion is really inconsistent, ranging from as low as 146 bpm to 150 bpm. Maybe the faster tempo gives LSFNY more energy, but the consistent tempo in BtFW surely made the cowbell hits sound better. 

I love the faster tempo for that section, but the studio tempo didn't work as badly as I expected. It was just fine. Both work well in different ways, but either way, that's just a cool riff.
MP didn't play the cowbell live on that song anyway, just the ride, since it's an overdub. I don't know how a slower tempo really affects it. Cowbells are awesome at any tempo.

[erwinrafael]

Cowbells and timpani are awesome. Which is why Breaking the Fourth Wall is such a good release, it has both!

MM played the cowbells live in BtFW, right? I believe cowbells are assigned to his E-pro Pad, and he's not doing any double hits on the bass drum during the cowbell part of Strange Deja Vu.

[BlobVanDam]

MM played the cowbells live in BtFW, right? I believe cowbells are assigned to his E-pro Pad, and he's not doing any double hits on the bass drum during the cowbell part of Strange Deja Vu.

MM plays the cowbell along with the ride, and the cowbell sound is triggered, but it doesn't show him during that section to see what he's doing. One of those points where his great limb independence comes into play, even though it sounds simple if you're not listening out for it.

[me7]

Just received Anthrax' new DVD Chile On Hell, which is a bare bones/ no frills release. I would just like to reiterate how especially nice the packaging is on Breaking the Fourth Wall.

I don't like the BtfW packaging, it's like a CD digipak, basically it's a paper wrap.

[Jinx]

It doesnt always detract from the performance but there are parts where i find the tempo's horribly slow and dragging. Especially in the sfam aniversary stuff

You must think the original album tempo is horribly slow and dragging, then; because it's exactly the same.

Indeed, I am much preferring DT as they are at the moment playing to the same tempo. Its the way the song was intended to sound in the first place but live. Also MM is putting his own spin on things so its like a new version of the old song.

This is the present DT I'm afraid! 

[hefdaddy42]

Peter Criss' name should not be brought up on this side of the board. Ever.

Isn't this already in the rules? 

[TheGreatPretender]

Just received Anthrax' new DVD Chile On Hell, which is a bare bones/ no frills release. I would just like to reiterate how especially nice the packaging is on Breaking the Fourth Wall.

I don't like the BtfW packaging, it's like a CD digipak, basically it's a paper wrap.

Some people prefer that.

[hefdaddy42]

I got the Bluray only package, I don't have a problem with it.

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

[TheGreatPretender]

I got the Bluray only package, I don't have a problem with it.

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

I'm gonna have to agree with that. I cringe every time I have to take a CD out of a coarse cardboard sleeve, instead of a proper spindle or whatever.

[BlobVanDam]

I got the Bluray only package, I don't have a problem with it.

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

Bleh, digipaks need to die a horrible painful death. The BTFW DVD is about as good as I've seen though. Pretty good packaging, and the disc holder doesn't suck. I do hate overlapping discs though.

[TheGreatPretender]

Nah, Digipaks rule. Although actually, the BTFW Blu-Ray package isn't perfect. The cover of it tended to bulge up for me, so I actually had to put it under some other DVDs for a while, so that it would conform to the flatness. But it's okay now, thankfully.

[Evermind]

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

Nah, Digipaks rule.

Agreed. I've got BFTW DVD and I think it's just fine.

[Kotowboy]

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

Yep. I got that one and it was tattered in a week.

[BlobVanDam]

DT's worst packaging ever was the Special Edition of BC&SL.

Yep. I got that one and it was tattered in a week.

Mine's still in perfect condition, as I only took the discs out once to rip them to my computer, and I got it as part of the big boxset, so it's safely stored inside. It wouldn't be practical if the CDs were my main listening format though.

[TheGreatPretender]

The problem is that the three envelopes don't actually fill the sleeve completely, and my CD rack is the type that holds 12 CDs stacked on top of one another in each of its compartments, meaning whatever is/was on top of the BCSL CD case ended up skewing the sleeve. I mean, it didn't ruin it, but it does look a bit ugly and squished as a result.

[BlobVanDam]

Which is why they should stick to standardized jewel cases dangit!
I'm not sure I've really looked at the set since I got it, but I also remember the not so nicely glued in booklet.

[King Postwhore]

I'm a jewel case guy.  They fit nicely in my shelves.  Jewel cases are different sizes and mess everything up for us music OCD folks.

[cramx3]

I dont mind the packaging.  I would prefer the standard blu-ray plastic package, but this isnt too crazy that it is difficult to store and its actually nicer than the standard so I am fine.  I prefer this to a CD style packaging like Nightwish's newest Blu Ray or being too large likes Epica's newest blu Ray.  However, Iron Maiden's newest in standard form, is my personaly favorite.... because it is standard.