New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[Evermind]

Probably TOT + 8VM. SFAM option is tempting, but as I tend to skip SDOIT the song on Score I definitely don't want to see it performed live.

[genome]

So, what's wrong with the fourth wall? What did it ever do to Dream Theater?

[me7]

Not night 1 because of WDADU.
Not night 2 because of FII.
Not night 4 because of 8VM (not the title track but the songs before it).
Not night 5 because of SC.
Not night 6 because of DT12 (track from Enigma Machine to Surrender to Reason in a row are too monotonous).

I'm surprised how easy it is for me to pick night 3.

[erwinrafael]

Way to derail the thread with an off topic.

[cramx3]

So i've watched almost the entire blu ray.  I only havent watched IT because I want to save the best for last.  My work schedule doesnt leave much time for me to sit back for a 3 hour concert so Ive been watching in pieces each night.  I love it so far.  My initial thoughts are it is up there with Budokan as my favorite.  I like the set better than Score and its got way better picture being on blu ray and the sound is probably just as good as Score or Budokan and significantly better than LaLP.  Im giving Budokan the slight edge at the moment because of all the extras of that concert (like the extended songs and instrumedley) but like I said, I havent even watched the best part yet so maybe BtFW could be my favorite in the end.

Oh, and MM is unbelievable.  I knew this from seeing DT 3 times on this tour, but his work is captured very well on this and I am constantly floored by how awesome his playing is.

[Anguyen92]

1. When Dream & Day Unite AND Images and Words

2. Awake & Falling into Infinity

3. Scenes From A Memory & Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence ( probably my pick )

4. Train Of Thought & Octavarium ( Or this )

5. Systematic Chaos & Black Clouds & Silver Linings ( lulz Nobody Applied rororo )

6. A Dramatic Turn Of Events & DT12.

I'm a very recent fan, so I would go with #6.  I think #3 though would be my pick if I was an older fan.

[jdprsaga]

I don't know if you guys mentioned it before in this thread (40 pages). I'm listening to the CD (haven't had time to sit a watch the dvd) and It seams like in Scared at the 5:14 mark there is a cut/patch in the audio.. it sounds weird. I will have to check it on the dvd.

btw.. in the CD the mixing is bad, specially the crowd, sounds like they recorder it with a microphone in the middle of the crowd. One get used to it while listening to it, but if you listen something else and then go back to the cd then sounds terrible again.

[mikemangioy]

i watched this yesterday evening and yep.

IT WAS GLORIOUS 

Every aspect of the DVD (except maybe the mix) is top notch: the band is on fire, that was the best performance of Lie I ever heard. Other great moments are Shattered Fortress, Breaking All Illusions, Trial Of Tears and basically all of the second set. Space Dye Vest especially. You can tell how Mangini is not "the new guy" anymore, he was just rocking out, his performance was stellar.

I really enjoyed the camera work, it was both very cinematic and clever - all the solos were shot in a very nice way and I loved the use of the split screen. The mix was OK, not the best though.

I also really liked the addition of the orchestra.

This might be my second favorite, next to Score. Good job 

[Mebert78]

So, what's wrong with the fourth wall? What did it ever do to Dream Theater?

Petrucci was leaning against it and it broke under the weight of his massive arm.

[jjrock88]

I'm really enjoying this release!!  The band sounds awesome.

[TAC]

I'm really enjoying this release!!  The band sounds awesome.

JJ, I commented on the Space Dye Vest solo a couple of weeks ago, and it cought your eye. What do you think?

[TAC]

Is there any downloadable artwork for the CDs?

[metrojam]

Just seen the DVD and visually I think it's the best ever one they have released. Much better editing than before as instead of the picture jerking from one shot to another every 2 seconds which seems to characterise their recent DVD's, the camera stays on the same shot for as long as necessary and we can actually watch a complete solo from one of the guys and enjoy their amazing skills and technique, love the great use of the split screens too. Didn't like the set list on the tour (apart from the stunning second encore of course!) 'cos of all the songs from DT12 and obviously its the same one here but the overall package seems to really lift it up a gear in my eyes and I'm loving the whole thing (apart from the simply dreadful and my least liked DT song ever, The Looking Glass) even The Enigma Machine seems great to me too now!
But doesn't that SFAM encore just make you desperate to see the whole thing performed live again and with an orchestra? They will never match that CD again I.M.O.
This is so much better than that mess of a release that was LALP and has restored my faith and love for the band again that I have had since I first saw them in 1993.

[bosk1]

But doesn't that SFAM encore just make you desperate to see the whole thing performed live again and with an orchestra?

Not particularly, no.  First, I don't think an orchestra would really add a lot to the entire album overall.  Second, I don't really want to see the entire thing performed.  I love LSFNY, and that captured the entire album very well.  It is such a long piece to do again in its entirety that it would completely dominate the set list.  I wouldn't want to sit through that.  I felt that the encore set here was long enough to really give a good representation of the album without it overstaying its welcome.  The only thing I might have liked to see done differently if it were entirely up to me is that I would have liked Home instead of TDOE. 

[TAC]

But doesn't that SFAM encore just make you desperate to see the whole thing performed live again and with an orchestra?

Not particularly, no.  First, I don't think an orchestra would really add a lot to the entire album overall.  Second, I don't really want to see the entire thing performed.  I love LSFNY, and that captured the entire album very well.  It is such a long piece to do again in its entirety that it would completely dominate the set list.  I wouldn't want to sit through that.  I felt that the encore set here was long enough to really give a good representation of the album without it overstaying its welcome.  The only thing I might have liked to see done differently if it were entirely up to me is that I would have liked Home instead of TDOE.

No way, man. TDOE was incredible on this. The footage of JM and JP at the center front of the stage was incredible. Home would be way too plodding.

[Cool Chris]

I would have liked Home anything instead of TDOE. 

Fixed for me. This does make me want to listen to some Scenes through headphones with the lights out, something I haven't done in a long time.

IT was a low point on DT12 for me, but its presentation here gives me new appreciation for it.

[Lucien]

The quiet section 2 minutes in to Breaking All Illusions is breathtaking, along with the rest of the song.

[cramx3]

But doesn't that SFAM encore just make you desperate to see the whole thing performed live again and with an orchestra?

Not particularly, no.  First, I don't think an orchestra would really add a lot to the entire album overall.  Second, I don't really want to see the entire thing performed.  I love LSFNY, and that captured the entire album very well.  It is such a long piece to do again in its entirety that it would completely dominate the set list.  I wouldn't want to sit through that.  I felt that the encore set here was long enough to really give a good representation of the album without it overstaying its welcome.  The only thing I might have liked to see done differently if it were entirely up to me is that I would have liked Home instead of TDOE.

I could understand not wanting to attend a concert where they played all of SFAM vs a normal DT concert, but you wouldnt want a release of SFAM with orchestra and choir say a production similar to Breaking the 4th Wall but of just SFAM?  Id eat that right up.

Although, Id really prefer to have Awake done with orchestra and choir over SFAM I think.

[metrojam]

But doesn't that SFAM encore just make you desperate to see the whole thing performed live again and with an orchestra?

Not particularly, no.  First, I don't think an orchestra would really add a lot to the entire album overall.  Second, I don't really want to see the entire thing performed.  I love LSFNY, and that captured the entire album very well.  It is such a long piece to do again in its entirety that it would completely dominate the set list.  I wouldn't want to sit through that.  I felt that the encore set here was long enough to really give a good representation of the album without it overstaying its welcome.  The only thing I might have liked to see done differently if it were entirely up to me is that I would have liked Home instead of TDOE.

Guess it all depends on how much you like SFAM really...for me its their greatest ever moment and I would LOVE to see it "dominate" any DT set list again!! especially if it was to the detriment of the DT12 songs!!
As an aside, I thought it was nice/interesting to notice that the girls in the choir were getting into the music far more than the blokes, most of whom just stood there like statues all the time!!

[Rodni Demental]

I've seen enough to comment now, might turn into a wall of text, so don't say I didn't warn you.

Highlights: (that I can remember atm xD)

- False Awakening intro vid, I dunno if a certain Robert someone is tired of the compliments on this video, but I really have to say that it's really well done, and quite mindblowing to be honest, really takes you on a journey and FAS is really well synched up to the transitions. Great stuff man. 
- Along For The Ride had some really cool altered melodies in the second verse and came off as a great live track. Jordans solo was epic as ever. Can hear more subtle cymbal work from Mike. Great version.
- Trial of Tears, The Wasteland, 'nuff said.
- The Mirror, easily one of, if not the best live version of this song. The JLB triggers were pretty badass, (James really started to get into gear around Breaking all Illusions and he kicked ass on the Awake material).
- Lie, I never really liked this track much but everything about this version was somehow surprisingly refreshing. There's some great moments in this song, some that don't even relate to the music exactly, such as the part in the first verse where James goes " But I dunno if I know you", then he pauses and looks like he's pointing at someone in the audience and then says, "yeah, you." There's another moment later in the second verse where it looks like he's trying 'force choke'JP with his hand  . Also, the Lie solo is flawless, totally mindblowing actually, complete with Mirror reprise and second solo, I have never appreciated this song quite like this. 
- Lifting Shadows is amazing. The first chorus where James sings "dream", he goes to an A instead of an F# (I think it's on a D chord, so it's going to the 5th, instead of the major 3rd). It kinda threw me off when I first heard it, but it does actually sound really good.
- Scarred, Love Mike's drumming on this song, this song really fits with JPs current guitar tone. I heard a lot more detail in the instrumentaion than I've ever noticed in this song before, I think John and Mike are the highlights here. But James still kicks some arse. This totally makes the Chaos in Motion version redundant (if it wasn't considered that way already haha). Also, was cool to see the proper outro for the song, as I believe they normally have a different ending on most other live versions of Scarred that I've heard, I was almost surprised to hear them playing the regular outro so tightly.
- Overture, Orchestra sounds fantastic here. Very cool way to do an encore with this Scenes medley, you could almost feel the excitement in the audience when the Metropolis sample kicks in.
- Finally Free, beautiful closer and probably another definitive version of this track.
- Space Dye Vest. Wow, this one couldn't have surprised me more. This version is so much more ALIVE than the studio version. For a song that's arguably my least favourite DT track, I was pleasantly surprised by the whole performance. And that final chorus + guitar solo, what an ending!! That's exactly what this song needed to appeal to me, a big epic heavy finish. I remember admiring Johns guitar solo on the bootleg of the first show they played, and I think it's slightly different here but just as awesome. 
- Illumination Theory. I have nothing to say about this other than it's completely and absolutely perfect.

Disappointments:
- On The Backs of Angels, not that it's a bad version, it's not even this songs fault exactly, but I was kinda underwhelmed a bit near the start by the time this came on, I was almost becoming disappointed. And I was comparing to the Luna Park version which I thought was better. I also expected the altered melody in the final chorus as heard in LALP but James didn't go for it which was unfortunate because that simple melody change really made Luna Park version quite awesome (too me).
- Trial of Tears. Yeah, I know, this is in my highlights and my disappointments. I loved the wasteland section but the rest of the song (things like the vocals in the chorus) didn't quite live up to my expectations and I was hoping this might be the definitive version of this track. But there's probably room for this one to grow on me.
- Dance of Eternity, I loose a bit of interest here but it was still a great version. But I also am in the boat that would have liked to see something like Home here.

So yeah, first two songs were great, I felt a bit of a drag for a while and was almost worried when I thought James wasn't on top of his game as much as I thought, but right around BAI after his break, he was on fire. (Great version too btw, didn't comment on it before but it's about equal with Luna Park version imo). Enigma Machine was cool too, not a favourite but it definitely deserves (and almost requires) it's place in the set here. I actually skipped The Looking Glass and Strange Dejavu (shame on me) because I'd seen them and had slightly restrictive time, ended up staying up quite late watching this thing so I'm pretty tired this morning. 

James was pretty funny too, like the moments in Lie that I mentioned, also he said some stuff about the people dancing during The Mirror, and the comment during Illumination Theory before Surrender Trust and Passion was funny and well timed with the camera angle. It really did look cool though. 

I'm bound to watch it again soon and listen to the CDs in my car now to digest it all a bit more. I now understand the comments about the mix sounding weird or funky sometimes, I can't put my finger on it but I get really different sound depending on the device and setup I'm playing it through, so I fiddled around with some sound settings on my stereo for a while before I was comfortable with it, but everything's still sits quite well in mix. Couldn't expect much else though, a truly phenomenal live show and release.

[RaiseTheKnife]

• First off, BRAVO to Eren for his amazing orchestration and harnessing the talent of his musicians.  I noticed that the orchestra is playing every little trick in each song where they appear, especially in Dance of Eternity, which must have required much discipline to achieve.  Command performance! I've always felt that Score needed to have a more challenging arrangement, and I'm glad Eren was up to the task.  Just wish it was a little more audible in the mix.  The orchestra in the BluRay mix sounded more pronounced than the MP3 or CDs, which may be the calibration of my TV.

•  I judge the quality of a live DVD by whether or not I can be seen in the audience, and yep, this is a great DVD.  I am fifth row and can be seen jumping abound, banging my fist and even rubbing my snoz at one point.  I can be spotted in two live DT releases now (Dream and Day Re-Unite being the other instance).  Good times!

• I agree that JP’s guitar sound may not surpass the test of time.  Compare this to the sound in the DT holiday album, which is crisp and powerful.  In some cases, I attribute much of this to the orchestra, which is doubling his guitar parts, giving his tone a sort of “extra reverb.”  Nevertheless, I think the mix is still pretty good.  The keys, drum and bass sound very clean to me.

•  I’m glad they cut out JLB’s awkward stage banter introducing the choir and orchestra.  Also glad they didn’t show my poorly drawn sign.  I was the only one with a sign at this concert and it certainly was not worthy of being memorialized in a DVD.

•  Even though others may detect some manipulation, it still feels like a raw presentation to me.  Especially when JP’s solo on Trial of Tears is waaay ahead of the beat.

•  Highlights for me include (1) the ending to Shattered Fortress.  Mangini is killing it.  (2) the opening string accompaniment to Dance; (3) every moment of the choir, especially in Finally Free, (4) the timpani drum in Strange Deja Vu -- nice touch!

•  Question:  On the opening of Enigma Machine, is the crowd this loud in the bootleg version?  I wonder if it was raised in the mix to simulate the sing-along experience.   I don’t recall hearing this the night of the show, although I clearly remember the crowd doing this in Riverside, CA, which seemed to get a reaction out of Jordan.

[CrimsonSunrise]

  I can be spotted in two live DT releases now (Dream and Day Re-Unite being the other instance).  Good times!

I was sooooo bummed with that LA show for WDADU.  I was 2nd row, probably 3 seats left of center, and not once can you see me good....   Where are you at in that one?

[Grizz]

This does not answer your question in the slightest but based on being there and hearing the boot I think that for certain parts (drum solo) they used the cheers from right before The Enemy Inside.

Too much scrutiny, even for DTF?

Alright, here's one: the hypercompression gets so bad at times that occasionally a drum hit makes all the other instruments drop out. It feels like I'm listening to that goddamn song that was always on the radio a couple years ago where the recovery from the bass drum hit is off beat and I get confused. It also reminds me of the shit sound quality on the Neutral Milk Hotel album.
Seriously, what is this audio quality? Even the HDTracks is bad. I'm tempted to isolate the audio channels and attempt a remix with the boot.

Since when did they get new Metropolis concept footage? It looks a lot better than the stuff from LSNY.

Seems brand new this tour. It's funny because the BVD intro video uses LSFNY footage in the animated picture of Nicholas's face worth a thousand words.

I just realized that it's pretty unique for a DT live album/DVD not to have Images & Words represented with a track. But this one broke that wall.

Instead they celebrated Awake - one of their worst albums





Seriously though - after the opening three songs - it loses me entirely.

[volwrath]

I have watched it through IT... and so far I think it is the best concert available out there.

MM steals the show. He is phenomenal.   He makes a drum solo fun to listen to.

JP is perfect but thats to be expected.

JLB is at the top of his game as well.

JM sounds great when you can hear him, but is nonexistant in the mix sometimes.

Great setlist as well.  I know you cant have it all, but this show has no song that I dont want to hear.  Thats the problem with alot of Rush releases. Technically they are perfect, but their setlist sucks. I dont need to hear roll the bones or earthshine or one little victory etc.

Mangini is a freakin beast... I love it

[jjrock88]

I'm really enjoying this release!!  The band sounds awesome.

JJ, I commented on the Space Dye Vest solo a couple of weeks ago, and it cought your eye. What do you think?

excellent!!

[Anguyen92]

Great setlist as well.  I know you cant have it all, but this show has no song that I dont want to hear.  Thats the problem with alot of Rush releases. Technically they are perfect, but their setlist sucks. I dont need to hear roll the bones or earthshine or one little victory etc.

^^ Rush hadn't played either Roll The Bones, Earthshine, One Little Victory since Snakes and Arrows Live.  The 1st two hadn't been played at all after R30.

Also, each DVD set they bring out, the setlists are really different from the other tours ever since they came back.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I cannot stop watching this concert film, it's amazing! The visuals are stunning and they all play great.

I've always liked Breaking All Illusions but this version is by far the best....so powerful.

[OsMosis2259]

What's with the visuals on Scarred? 

[Pettor]

I been playing this constantly for the last days. Dream Theater hasen't really been up to the old level since Mike left and I have become a bit afraid the new wasn't for me. This release was very important for me in that they could release something where both the new & old songs come to life, often better than the recorded CD variant!

I actually freaking love every song (even the on CD super booring Enigma Machine). Set 2 & encore is amazing! Illumination Theory and SDV is just mindblowing. This is really what they needed after Luna Park

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I watched it, and was completely blown away. James was on fire.

Didn't notice any excessive auto tuning (I worked in professional audio for over two years, I would know), and didn't notice any auto tuning throwing notes out of pitch. I noticed James hitting some wrong notes here and there, but let's not be stupid and blame it on wrong auto tuned notes. That's just absurd.

Mangini's kit is heard, and although I'm still not thrilled about his snare tone, his kit and his playing sounded incredible!

My favorite live DT release yet. Hands down.

[Kotowboy]

[/quote]



Well that's me told. Can't argue with that reasoning. OMG I <3 AWAKE !

[hefdaddy42]

I am on my first viewing right now. The Shattered Fortress just kicked my ass.

[TAC]

I am on my first viewing right now. The Shattered Fortress just kicked my ass.

Not I song that I really cared for, but that ending is epic, as is Mangini throughout. The live version is definitely a convincer.

[King Postwhore]

Wife is leaving to hang with her mom and sis, I have to mow the lawn but viewing the concert again will happen today!

[dream416]

Just finished watching & this BlueRay kicks ass. The band is so locked in. The sound (at least on my system) is
incredible. MM is just a beast on this & looks like he's have a blast.(as with the rest of the band).This is one of their best live releases yet.