Illumination Theory vs The Count of Tuscany

[lonestar]

Love both, but gotta go with TCOT. I just feel it's a more fluidic song, the symphonic section, though wonderful, in IT is somewhat of a buzzkill for me as far as the complete song goes. TCOT however, is probably one of my top 5 songs.

[The Stray Seed]

I really enjoy sections of The Count, but IT comfortably for me. IT just has that special DT blend that works perfectly in my eyes, and is a monster epic..

[PwnsomeWin]

I want to say IT, even though TCOT is higher on my ranking list. But I haven't heard TCOT in a while, and I'm sure if I listened to it now, I'd say TCOT. But it's a tough call.

[Marion Crane]

I can't believe this is even a debate.  Tuscany is infinitely better

[Podaar]

Illumination Theory

I physically can NOT vote against the riff at 3:40.

[jakepriest]

I still can't believe people actually like the incohesive album-closer (far from epic) that IT is.

[The Stray Seed]

I can't believe this is even a debate.  Tuscany is infinitely better

Making statements. Should be the new olympic discipline.

Brazil, get ready. We've got loads of champions here at DTF

[Marion Crane]

I can't believe this is even a debate.  Tuscany is infinitely better

Making statements. Should be the new olympic discipline.

Brazil, get ready. We've got loads of champions here at DTF

Sorry, I'll be a little more explicit....I don't like IT at all and I think TCOT is an infinitely better song. 

[teclas]

IT by a lot. Count has a lot of good stuff but can't touch IT which has way better lyrics, a far better ambient section, a better outro, and a better lineup.

Yes, nailed it. 

[Prog Snob]

It's still too soon for me to get that much provocation from IT.  It's a great song and one of the Top 3 songs on the new CD for me, but it needs to stand the test of time for me, especially when compared to a brilliant song like TCOT. The creative non-fiction style lyrics in TCOT aren't meant to be deep and insightful like those in IT.  Comparing the lyrics in both songs is futile and it ultimately boils down to subjectivity. Saying one song has "better" lyrics than the other is kind of pointless because the word itself is purely abstract. In most cases, it does nothing for me in a comparative discussion.

[cramx3]

TCOT, its pretty close, but the better intro/ending on the Count makes it the winner for me.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

It's still too soon for me to get that much provocation from IT.  It's a great song and one of the Top 3 songs on the new CD for me, but it needs to stand the test of time for me, especially when compared to a brilliant song like TCOT. The creative non-fiction style lyrics in TCOT aren't meant to be deep and insightful like those in IT.  Comparing the lyrics in both songs is futile and it ultimately boils down to subjectivity. Saying one song has "better" lyrics than the other is kind of pointless because the word itself is purely abstract. In most cases, it does nothing for me in a comparative discussion.

Well, almost anything in music is subjective. When I say something like "this song has better lyrics", I mean "I like these lyrics better", since there's obviously no objective parameters to base this judgement on.

And on that note, I actually prefer the lyrics to The Count Of Tuscany to those of Illumination Theory. Come at me, bros.

[Outcrier]

I still can't believe people actually like the incohesive album-closer (far from epic) that IT is.

The two of them fits in the incohesive album-closer (far from epic) description to me 

[JiM-Xtreme]

I still can't believe people actually like the incohesive album-closer (far from epic) that IT is.

The two of them fits in the incohesive album-closer (far from epic) description to me 

How is TCOT incohesive?

[Outcrier]

I think the transitions are a bit forced and some parts are there just to fill space but more cohesive than IT, though i think IT has better performances from the band but, honestly, i couldn't care less about these two songs, if i still was into DT music, i would think: Why listen to this when i can listen to ACOS or 8V?

[Voices]

I love both songs, but I like IT better. There's many memorable moments, and every time that I listen to it, feels like the first time I've ever heard the song...and that just doesn't happen with TCOT.

[TheGreatPretender]

Still like IT more overall, but I will say this, I was listening to TCOT the other day and I thought about how other DT albums ended, and honestly, I think the end of TCOT is the best DT album closer since Learning to Live.

[Implode]

TCOT by miles.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Still like IT more overall, but I will say this, I was listening to TCOT the other day and I thought about how other DT albums ended, and honestly, I think the end of TCOT is the best DT album closer since Learning to Live.

Sums up my exact thoughts. Both phenomenal songs, but IT wins by a hair for me.

[DebraKadabra]

Illumination Theory. By far.

This.  For me, the music is much more epic in scale, scope, and ambition, and the lyrics aren't ridiculously stupid.  Win win.

Word, mentlegen.

[Prog Snob]

It's still too soon for me to get that much provocation from IT.  It's a great song and one of the Top 3 songs on the new CD for me, but it needs to stand the test of time for me, especially when compared to a brilliant song like TCOT. The creative non-fiction style lyrics in TCOT aren't meant to be deep and insightful like those in IT.  Comparing the lyrics in both songs is futile and it ultimately boils down to subjectivity. Saying one song has "better" lyrics than the other is kind of pointless because the word itself is purely abstract. In most cases, it does nothing for me in a comparative discussion.

Well, almost anything in music is subjective. When I say something like "this song has better lyrics", I mean "I like these lyrics better", since there's obviously no objective parameters to base this judgement on.

And on that note, I actually prefer the lyrics to The Count Of Tuscany to those of Illumination Theory. Come at me, bros.

Some people don't know how to use their words properly, so it causes all sorts of confusion in an argument. They obviously don't understand the subjectivity/objectivity dissimilarities. Obviously, you do.   

And yes, I agree with your second paragraph. 

[ori.elias5]

Few thoughts on TCOT:(beside the fact that its so good, i love the intro and ending parts).
before  the silent part starts approx around the 9th minute the riff reminds me the begining of 6:00.  then, there is part which reminds me a lot of of the guitar solo in "Lie". the silent section  sounds to me like the middle part of The Rime Of The Ancient Mariner by Maiden... have i lost it?..

[Laich21DT]

Illumination Theory, though it's fairly close. I'm kind of surprised that people have been so definitive as to say "__ by far".

I absolutely LOVE the main riff in IT, and when it's reprised later in the song and later under the guitar solo, it's a prog-gasm moment.

TCOT certainly has some awesome moments, I really like the intro and the final verse, but as we all know, the lyrics are pretty silly, which hurts it.

[kirksnosehair]

If "Illumination Theory" did NOT have that orchestral section strapped to it, I probably would have voted for it.  But that section just totally kills the mood and flow of the song for me.  I still don't understand why it's even there or how -in any way- it carries the song forward.  To me, that section goes with the song the same way that mustard goes with vanilla ice cream.

[bosk1]

To me, that section goes with the song the same way that mustard goes with vanilla ice

wut

[hefdaddy42]

Sounds legit, boss. 

[N4Player]

TCOT for me. Not even close. IT has its moments but there is nothing epic about it other than the length of the song. TCOT has a great flow from start to finish and a killer chorus and ending that IT lacks.

[jakepriest]

TCOT for me. Not even close. IT has its moments but there is nothing epic about it other than the length of the song. TCOT has a great flow from start to finish and a killer chorus and ending that IT lacks.

This.

[ronnibran]

TCOT for me.  I'm a huge lyric guy, but TCOT is my guilty pleasure in the cheesy lyrics department.  It's such a great song that I enjoy them throughout even though I usually don't.  I love DT's self titled album, but IT is actually one of my least favorite songs on it, even though it's the epic.  Album to album, I totally take DT over BCASL, but TCOT is way better to me than IT.

[Zook]

They're both awesome, but It'll probably take a few years before I'm able to really decide which I like better. I'd say right now probably TCOT because it's been out longer and has had more time to resonate.

[energythief]

IT, if only due to lack of growls and less cringe-worthy lyrics.

[PROGdrummer]

The Count of Tuscany, because:

Better intro
Better ambient section
Better outro
Less filler/fluff
More cohesive

[The King in Crimson]

IT because it's not a cringe-inducing cheese-fest like TCoT.

[bl5150]

IT, by about a billion miles.

After listening to BCSL and Dt12 a fair bit in the last week...........this.

[XB0BX]

TCoT, with better lyrics, might just be DT's best song.