What are your thoughts on DT12?

[Zydar]

I haven't listened to it for a few days. I spun it so much last week I need a short break from the album. I don't wanna "burn out" on it.

[Riitasointi]

A strange thing happened to me with this album.

I started listening to this album as soon as the streams hit the internet. I was all excited because ADTOE was (and still is) one of my favourite albums of all time. So, I had really high expectations. First couple of listens it was really disappointing and felt just bland and boring. This is not the Dream Theater I was hoping for, I thought. Where are all the amazing melodies, mind blowing instrumental sections and kickass riffs, I asked. Then, after some five spins the album started to feel more alive. I got really into the atmosphere and overall feel of the songs. I loved TEI, TBP, BTV and most of all IT. This is more like it, I thought.

But then, inspired by the enjoyment I got from the s/t, I started to go back to the older DT stuff and BOOM, my fanboy mode just went straight on! For the past couple of weeks I've been basically listening to DT exclusively and I have to say that at this point every single one of the albums sound amazing! It's been a while since I listened to DT this much and I see now that the break has really been good to me. After a few days I went back to the new album, and suddenly it started to feel kind of bad compared to all the previous albums. For example, TEI is easily beaten by, say, On the Backs of Angels or As I Am. Illumination Theory feels really weak if compared to songs like 6DOIT, Octavarium or even In The Name of God and Count of Tuscany. So my opinion and feelings towards the new album have kind of gone back to the initial impression 

All in all I thank this album for bringing the DT-fanboy inside me alive again (I decided to join this forum as well!) and I hope I can go back to it after a few months and listen to it with a new mindset. Maybe I'll see the greatness of it again then!

[Tick]

I haven't listened to it for a few days. I spun it so much last week I need a short break from the album. I don't wanna "burn out" on it.

This. I had to stop listening today after 7 consecutive days.

[Lucien]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.

IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.

This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.

With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!

I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!

Isn't great music more important than being able to play a thousand notes per second? I mean, they show off like that at least 3 songs EVERY SINGLE ALBUM. Kind of the reason my parents don't really like DT and absolutely love Rush.

[Outcrier]

Seems like Rush is the only prog band that exists 

[Lucien]

Seems like Rush is the only prog band that exists 

I have spoken of my little musical variety before. No need to bring it up 

Again, I dip into other prog stuff pretty often. My parents mostly love Rush, but really, I try to find other prog stuff they could listen to, but then I refrain once I hear a long wankery instrumental section, as my parents hate them. It was my fault to play then Octavarium and Black Clouds first.

[Tick]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.

IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.

This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.

With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!

I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!

Isn't great music more important than being able to play a thousand notes per second? I mean, they show off like that at least 3 songs EVERY SINGLE ALBUM. Kind of the reason my parents don't really like DT and absolutely love Rush.

Understood. But that's one of the things DT fans like. They are popular for a reason. Many bands do different things. DT shows off and they know the DT base expects it, and wants it. It makes live shows very entertaining.
This album is different. They do much less soloing but the songs still satisfy with complex song structures.

[Lucien]

My parents haven't heard the new album. I'm trying to convince myself that THIS is the one: THIS will be the one they like.





They didn't like Scenes. They also kind of thought me strange after I said it had a funny ending. This was before the.. samples..

Everyone in the car looked at me when Victoria was shot. 

[Tick]

My parents haven't heard the new album. I'm trying to convince myself that THIS is the one: THIS will be the one they like.





They didn't like Scenes. They also kind of thought me strange after I said it had a funny ending. This was before the.. samples..

Everyone in the car looked at me when Victoria was shot. 

I'm probably as old or older than your parents and I get that DT isn't there bag. As a diehard Rush fan, a band I have seen 40 times I would say the similarities are that they both play progressive music. Other than the fact DT  has purposely has written Rush type riffs they are not all that similar at all, imo.

[Outcrier]

Seems like Rush is the only prog band that exists 

I have spoken of my little musical variety before. No need to bring it up 

Again, I dip into other prog stuff pretty often. My parents mostly love Rush, but really, I try to find other prog stuff they could listen to, but then I refrain once I hear a long wankery instrumental section, as my parents hate them. It was my fault to play then Octavarium and Black Clouds first.

  I'm not talking about you Lucien.

[Outcrier]

My parents haven't heard the new album. I'm trying to convince myself that THIS is the one: THIS will be the one they like.





They didn't like Scenes. They also kind of thought me strange after I said it had a funny ending. This was before the.. samples..

Everyone in the car looked at me when Victoria was shot. 

Show Images or Awake to them, they're more acessible.

[rumborak]

Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.

[Polarbear]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.

IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.

This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.

With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!

I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!

Isn't great music more important than being able to play a thousand notes per second? I mean, they show off like that at least 3 songs EVERY SINGLE ALBUM. Kind of the reason my parents don't really like DT and absolutely love Rush.

I listen to progressive music often, but i also like "basic" song structures. I play/sing in a sort of modern melodic- metal band, so a song doesn't have to have a section with crazy instrumentation to be good for me. Besides i really like FII and Octavarium, and prog bands that have a "slightly" simpler edge to them also sound good to me.

But i personally feel that, by not including songs like Metropolis 1 or maybe something like Panic attack they are throwing away some of that charm that made me a DT fan in the first place. Yes they have the Enigma Machine on this album, but it feels like a obligatory instrumental to me. Maybe i m just a fan of JP and JR shredding their instruments, i dont know.

Maybe i just need to look at this album in a different light, but i feel slightly alienated by this new style they have on this album.

[Tick]

Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.

Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.

[425]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).

[krands85]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples.

Couldn't agree more 

[1neeto]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).

Could not agree more with this. How can you be a true DT fan and not like the wankery that comes with it?

[Polarbear]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).

This!
Love it or hate it, "wankery" is one of their trademarks.

[The Curious Orange]

"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.

[Outcrier]

Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.

Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.

What's wrong with Bruce Springsteen?

[Tick]

Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.

Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.

What's wrong with Bruce Springsteen?

You tell me? I didn't say something was? I was pointing out some seemingly more mature based artists.

Now truth be told, I don't care for his music but I didn't imply that. I also don't listen to Elvis either. Why don't you have a problem with me slighting him? Even though I'm not. Now Laurence Welk was just me being a bit silly.

[Outcrier]

Because either Rush or Bruce Springsteen are great rock music (at least during their golden era)... these two released various classics 1970 through mid 80's

[?]

"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.

[Outcrier]

"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.

Great quote is great.

[Riitasointi]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).

I have to agree so much with this as well. Maybe the lack of ridiculous instrumental madness is one of the reasons I don't seem to like DT12 as much as people here generally. 

[Kotowboy]

I also don't understand the sentiment that "DT12 isn't exactly what we're used to - ergo I don't like it".

Try being a fan of Therapy? Every album they put out sounds nothing like the one before. You literally have no idea what the album will sound like until it comes out because they almost never do the same album twice.

I would hate to be a Slayer, Motorhead, AC/DC fan. Just getting the same album every few years, which themselves contain 12 versions of your biggest hit.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.

This is a great way of putting it. There are songs sprinkled throughout the band's catalog where they are firing on all cylinders with a great riff, or great vocals, or great melodies, and then they turn their focus to soloing and it kills the mood. Those moments aren't as prevalent and some would have you believe, but they're there.

Thankfully for me, there are none of those on DT12 (except for maybe the end of IT)!

[jayvee3]

I listen to progressive music often, but i also like "basic" song structures. I play/sing in a sort of modern melodic- metal band, so a song doesn't have to have a section with crazy instrumentation to be good for me. Besides i really like FII and Octavarium, and prog bands that have a "slightly" simpler edge to them also sound good to me.

But i personally feel that, by not including songs like Metropolis 1 or maybe something like Panic attack they are throwing away some of that charm that made me a DT fan in the first place. Yes they have the Enigma Machine on this album, but it feels like a obligatory instrumental to me. Maybe i m just a fan of JP and JR shredding their instruments, i dont know.

Maybe i just need to look at this album in a different light, but i feel slightly alienated by this new style they have on this album.

This is something that has really interested me.. I have heard a few people who really like Octavarium, but cant get into the new album. Each to his own, and I admit, I personally feel 8V is pretty ho-hum; but I feel this album and 8V can actually be compared quite well. While they certainly have a different sound, they do also share a similar album structure of a big epic, and then 7 or 8 other fairly concise songs. The thing is, I feel DT's songs beat out 8V's handily, when we look at similar-ish tracks. Now, of course we have the two epics. With Octavarium being many's favourite, I have no problem with that - But I actually prefer Illumination Theory. I will definitely admit to probably being in the minority there, but 8V has always just taken too darn long for anything major to happen with me, where as IT has just really clicked with me completely. At the end of the day, they are easily my two favourite epics, and two wonderful pieces of music. But the rest of the tracks on DT, completely win me over when compared to 8V..

TROAE starts nice, but I feel it loses momentum fairly quickly. Behind the Veil in comparison, is every bit as good as it - I far prefer it, but it is at the very least, on par. TALW if compared to DT's main ballad AFTR, gets toasted. These walls is definitely one of the better, and more loved tracks from 8V, but I would take Surrender to Reason over it any day. The more pop tracks - IWBY vs The Looking Glass - TLG is one of my faves from the new album, and crushes IWBY in my opinion.. Panic attack is cool, but for metal tracks, I easily prefer The Enemy Inside. Something about the Muse references just never sat as well with me in PI.. Never Enough is one of my most disliked songs, and I feel just doesn't work - I have no problem taking the instrumental Enigma Machine over that. And The Bigger Picture is awesome, while Sacrificed Sons is pretty mid tier. Throw in the excellent FAS album opener, and the very pretty easter egg music, and DT is miles ahead to my mind..

Of course, these are only my opinions, and totally open to others. Just an example of - as a lover of the new album - where it comes from, when compared to other material I find a bit lacklustre, but others enjoy. Peace

[Dream Team]

Loving this album, but especially everything after EM. I think JLB's vocals at the end of IT might be my favorite of all the ones he's recorded for the band, and that's really saying something coming from me as I'm about the biggest I&W fanboy there is.

JP has an annoying habit of letting loud distorted guitar notes ring out over the bass/drum-only sections of songs when JM is supposed to be getting a chance to shine. Worst offenders for me are the first verse of BAI from the last album, but he does it a few times on DT12 also. The solo sections in TLG and STR that start with the MM/JM dynamic should be extended a little before JP jumps in. Minor quibble.

Such a huge focus on tight songwriting, melodies, and choruses on this album. I think JLB is really the unsung hero here, as much as JP and MM dominate the recording.

[Filipe_metalhead]

Well, I have something to say:

I love each and every album of Dream Theater. We public gotta think of music like movies. I understand that people have their own tastes and choices like I do, but one thing is certain, like movies if each and every album are always the same exact type of album there wouldn't exist diversity in music industry.

Imagine that Dream Theater is a company that directs movies and the only type that they do are for instances, Twilight... (not criticizing the movie, and I apology to whom may think that I'm giving this as a bad example. Don't get me wrong, it's just an example.)

Maybe in 3 albums in the same concept, the same type would be cool, but imagine 12 albums always the same way... It would be pretty boring. It would be like: "oh, DT released a new album... No matter, it must be like the previous works. I'll just listen to my fave..."

That the kinda of thing that a musician don't want to... To be REPETITIVE! I don't mean to Dream Theater change their style of a sudden from album to album. It would be worse if they would do a "Kill'Em All" and later on a "Load"... That would be a really Dramatic Turn Of Events...

This album is Dream Theater. No other band than them! It might have things that you dislike, others that you'll love but that's the way it gotta be. Otherwise, one album would just do it. And make tours and tours of the same set list... No! We want new stuff and if we could have different type of sounds but in the same concept of the band itself. I think it's important to consider this. Albums are like movies, they gotta be different to capture our attention. If they were all the same we would loose interest...


Sorry if I hurt anyones susceptibilities, it was not my intention...

[Ruba]

I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).

Could not agree more with this. How can you be a true DT fan and not like the wankery that comes with it?

A good question. Maybe I ain't then.

OK, I like some wankery sections, like The Reckoning on ITPOE, but for example the mid-section in Sacrificed Sons breaks the great flow of the song. 

[Podaar]

I'm not surprised there are so many people who don't like the virtuoso sections of songs but still are DT fans. DT is about so much more than just virtuosity that there are bound to be fans that love other aspects but not that. I will say what does still confuse me is that some folks seem so surprised when those moments are included!    Seriously, every album has them in abundance.

Back to this album: I've tried to burn myself out on it, I can't. I've tried to nitpick it, I can't. I've tried to despise it, I can't. It's official, I really love this record! Top tier album for me and is exactly what I would have liked to create if I had any talent whatsoever.

[425]

"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.

Can you give an example of when you think they indulged in wankery at the expense of their other trademarks? This isn't a challenge, I'm honestly interested in hearing opinions on this.

A good question. Maybe I ain't then.

OK, I like some wankery sections, like The Reckoning on ITPOE, but for example the mid-section in Sacrificed Sons breaks the great flow of the song.

The mid section in Sacrificed Sons makes sense to me musically and in the context of the lyrics, but I can understand someone not liking it so much musically and/or finding it inappropriate with the context of the lyrics, even though I disagree.

[Tick]

I'm not surprised there are so many people who don't like the virtuoso sections of songs but still are DT fans. DT is about so much more than just virtuosity that there are bound to be fans that love other aspects but not that. I will say what does still confuse me is that some folks seem so surprised when those moments are included!    Seriously, every album has them in abundance.

Back to this album: I've tried to burn myself out on it, I can't. I've tried to nitpick it, I can't. I've tried to despise it, I can't. It's official, I really love this record! Top tier album for me and is exactly what I would have liked to create if I had any talent whatsoever.

I love this post, but one question....Why did you try to despise it?

[emtee]

On any given day every song could be my favorite. Amazing really. No skips, not even parts of songs like the last several
albums had. Just strong as hell front to back.