2013-14 NBA thread v. Adam Silver Lays the Pipe on Donald Sterling ©2014antigoon

[KevShmev]

All of it will be part of his legacy.  All of it.  There will always be those who act like only one of the extremes matters and that the other does not, but the reality is that all of it matters. 

[black_biff_stadler]

Sure ain't no Elgin Baylor.

[ReaPsTA]

All of it will be part of his legacy.  All of it.  There will always be those who act like only one of the extremes matters and that the other does not, but the reality is that all of it matters.

I agree.

My question is more along the lines of what basketball fandom as a whole will think.  Players are remembered based on their symbolic value moreso than what they actually did on the court. 

For example - people forget that MJ and Kobe's games were 99% the same.  Obviously, that 1% is unbelievably important.  It's the difference between the greatest player ever and one whose greatness is very questionable.  But people talk about how much better a team player Jordan was as if he perfectly gracefully balanced shooting and passing.  I've been some of Jordan's games - he's just as aggressive a shooter as Kobe.

[black_biff_stadler]

I think 1% is a bit off. Maybe 80%. Jordan seemed to win games in the first half the way he'd learn his opponents' every nuance, exploit them, and execute at a level only ever seen previously when combining Red's coaching virtuosity with Russell's and Cousy's consummate excellence through versatility as well as execution. Phil has more rings but Red probably would've ended up with more had he hung around even though Phil seems to be a bit better at evolving with the times as a means of staying in touch with each new generation on a mental level. What I mean by this is that Jordan, despite having fewer rings than the '50s/60s Celts, is very likely the single most valuable player in NBA history when judging for direct effect on team titles. Kobe is more a product of having Shaq/Phil/Pau.

[KevShmev]

ReaP, how old are you?  I am guessing young enough to have never really seen Jordan play on a regular basis, hence you saying you have seen some of his games, meaning you probably saw a few of his games on ESPN Classic or something, right?  In other words, you weren't around when he was at his peak (not talking about his days with the Wizards after he foolishly came back), cause if you were, you wouldn't be saying that he and Bryant were 99% similar.  Just because they were both shooting guards who were volume shooters doesn't mean they were essentially the same player.

[ReaPsTA]

ReaP, how old are you?  I am guessing young enough to have never really seen Jordan play on a regular basis, hence you saying you have seen some of his games, meaning you probably saw a few of his games on ESPN Classic or something, right?  In other words, you weren't around when he was at his peak (not talking about his days with the Wizards after he foolishly came back), cause if you were, you wouldn't be saying that he and Bryant were 99% similar.  Just because they were both shooting guards who were volume shooters doesn't mean they were essentially the same player.

Most of what I've seen of Jordan is the second three-peat version.  Most of what I've seen of Kobe is the post-Shaq part of his career.  To me, those two players are very similar.

Haven't really seen Shaq-era Kobe.  Only seen a little of pre-first retirement Jordan.  Maybe they were more different.

[Nekov]

It looks like we'll be getting another Spurs/Heat final or maybe Thunder/Heat. Either way, Indiana has been playing dreadfully the last 10 games and they don't seem to be able to pick up the slack. And even though the Heat have also had a slump the last couple of days we all know there is no threat for them in the east.

Do you guys think there'll be mayor changes with the upcoming free agency and draft or will we get another year of Miami cruising to the finals due to the lack of opposition?

[Jamesman42]

As a Heat fan who loathes the Pacers, I'd rather Miami win by beating the best at their best. I haven't been able to watch basketball lately, but it seems like Ind is in a really bad spot. Still, they should get to the ECF with Miami. And hopefully lose.

[antigoon]

Indiana's offense has always been shaky. It doesn't help that Paul George's efficiency has gone down the toilet the past few months, either. The real exciting part of the playoffs to me will be seeing teams like Washington and Charlotte in there for the first time in ages. And also the entire Western Conference.

[Dimitrius]

The worst Lakers team in history dropped 51 points in a quarter on the Knicks. LOOOOOOOOOOL

[antigoon]

who are "the Knicks"?

[antigoon]

is that a basketball team?

[Dimitrius]

I'm sorry for the misspelling, I meant to say the

[Jamesman42]

I fucking hate the Pacers.

David West travels but it's ok, gets a 3.

Wade makes a 3 but gets called OOB.

Fucking dirty ass players.

I hope Miami destroys them in the ECF.

[antigoon]

lol

[KevShmev]

Honestly, I don't, at this point, expect the Heat to 3-peat.  I have zero confidence in Wade and Allen to both be healthy throughout the playoffs, and Miami will likely have to win it all by not having home court in both the ECF and Finals, which I am not sure this team is cut out to overcome this year (last year's team was better and still needed two Game 7s at home, against Indiana and SA, to repeat). 

[ReaPsTA]

I can't believe I'm making this post:

If I were better at Vegas, I'd bet the field.  But, Miami can't be counted out until they're gone.  Indiana's too shaky.  OKC and SA are great, but the Heat already beat both of them in different finals series.  I love what the Clippers are doing, but they have holes and are untested.

Also, LeBron James.

[Nekov]

Forget what I said yesterday, I'm putting the Pacers back as contenders only because they really want to beat Miami.

Also, LeBron James.

He's been playing through an injury for the last couple of months and going into the playoffs not healthy might affect his game. He's still Lebron though.

[Jaq]

Miami can say what they want, but this season the injuries and the wear and tear from making the finals all those times in a row is wearing them down, and they seem to have settled into the "we'll turn it on in the playoffs." Teams are clinching divisions, guys, you'd better turn it up now if you don't want to get bounced BEFORE the Conference finals. They're losing to multiple sub .500 teams, it isn't that much of a stretch to see them going out early, if they keep playing down to the level of their competition. Still the team to beat, don't get me wrong, but this is the most vulnerable they've been since James came on board.

[ReaPsTA]

Miami can say what they want, but this season the injuries and the wear and tear from making the finals all those times in a row is wearing them down, and they seem to have settled into the "we'll turn it on in the playoffs." Teams are clinching divisions, guys, you'd better turn it up now if you don't want to get bounced BEFORE the Conference finals. They're losing to multiple sub .500 teams, it isn't that much of a stretch to see them going out early, if they keep playing down to the level of their competition. Still the team to beat, don't get me wrong, but this is the most vulnerable they've been since James came on board.

This to me is their biggest issue.  Right now, the Pacers, Thunder, Spurs, and Clippers would all have homecourt against Miami in a seven game series.  Even Houston's record right now is tied with Miami's.  That's a major disadvantage to fight against.

[KevShmev]

A lot can still happen, but the Spurs appear to be on a mission to avenge themselves for that Game 6 collapse.

[ReaPsTA]

A lot can still happen, but the Spurs appear to be on a mission to avenge themselves for that Game 6 collapse.

The Spurs machine just keeps on going and going.

Especially if they win this year or next, the Spurs need to be remembered as the greatest team of this era, and Duncan as the greatest superstar.

[KevShmev]

I think it's likely that James will go down as being better than Duncan when it's all said and done, but Duncan should be ahead of both Shaq and Bryant on the all-time list.  He isn't top 5 all-time, but he's in that 6-10 range.  It's criminal how underrated he really is.

[Nekov]

To both of you

[antigoon]

Tim Duncan is the GOAT of nonchalant greatness.

[Jamesman42]

I love Tim Duncan.

I love this gif:

[antigoon]

Wade's face

[contest_sanity]

[Nekov]

I love watching the Spurs play, it almost seems like they could do it with their eyes closed

[Syzzle]

Miami has officially coasted to the #1 seed

[Jamesman42]

And all is right with the world

[Azyiu]

I know it is a bit early now, but if I have a vote, the COY has to be Tom Thibodeau! No D Rose, no more Nate or Deng? No problem, the Bulls are still right up there in the standing, wow! Otherwise, Jeff Hornacek would be my next choice. Also, I think Dwane Casey of the Raptors is equally deserving. The Raptors started off poorly (6-12), but they began winning after they traded away Gay and went on a 36-20 run since. I don't care if they are in the East, they basically have no star power up there in Toronto. Their leading scorer is DeMar DeRozan for crying out loud. What's your top 3 COY choices?

[Nekov]

I'm gonna go with the obvious choice of Popovic, the Spurs continue to play incredible basketball, all the new team members have adjusted perfectly to the system and the team was able to overcome a rough couple of month where every single starter got injured and sometimes more than one at the time. Plus they are on a record season so yeah.
Second I'd go for Dwane Casey since as Azyiu points out, their team sucks and still they are able to maintain that 3rd place in the East.
Third I'd probably put Kevin Mchale, The Rockets have been playing some good basketball and Harden and Howard seem to be getting along pretty good.

[Syzzle]

Looking like it's going to be Miami and Toronto in the ECF. The Pacers are worse than garbage right now honestly they might lose to The Bobcats in the first round

[Nekov]

Yep, after seeing Hibbert sit out the whole second half yesterday it's pretty clear there are issues in that locker room