Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[petrucci07]

The only bit of music from the prequels that I remember is the bit where the choir is being all dramatic while the trumpets (I think?) are like "do do doodloodoo do do dooloodoo do do dooloodoo do do dooloodoo" really fast. The originals, on the other hand, are full of memorable themes.

This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbPX4xrKNlM

[ehra]

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Pols Voice]

It may sound crazy, but one of my pet peeves is when people spell Wookiee as Wookie. It's spelled incorrectly probably 95% of the time. The word "Wookiee" shows up in subtitles in Return of the Jedi, so I don't know why people only use one e. There's also Wookieepedia, a major Star Wars website, plus all the books that spell it correctly. I find it odd that many die hard Star Wars fans can spell every weirdass name correctly, but then spell Wookiee with one e. Is it because they want to link it somehow to cookie? Maybe it's because some early publications in the 70s spelled it as Wookie, and that stuck?
So, as an education to all my fellow Star Wars dweebs, it's spelled "Wookiee", not "Wookie". Thank you and good day.

[Implode]

Noted.

[Super Dude]

It may sound crazy, but one of my pet peeves is when people spell Wookiee as Wookie. It's spelled incorrectly probably 95% of the time. The word "Wookiee" shows up in subtitles in Return of the Jedi, so I don't know why people only use one e. There's also Wookieepedia, a major Star Wars website, plus all the books that spell it correctly. I find it odd that many die hard Star Wars fans can spell every weirdass name correctly, but then spell Wookiee with one e. Is it because they want to link it somehow to cookie? Maybe it's because some early publications in the 70s spelled it as Wookie, and that stuck?
So, as an education to all my fellow Star Wars dweebs, it's spelled "Wookiee", not "Wookie". Thank you and good day.

Thank you. That drives me insane, and I feel like I'm the only one who notices. Glad to see I'm not.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, that's the ticket.

From the prequels, Duel of the Fates is the best them.

[Implode]

Actually Through the Stars (I think it's called), the love theme, is the best of them.

[Super Dude]

You mean Across the Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nk_WHHTQtY

[Implode]

Yes, I do. Thank you. I love how the main motive starts with a minor 6th interval as if to represent how the romance failed in contrast to Han and Leia's whose love theme motive begins with a major 6th interval.

[Super Dude]

Yes, well, listen to it back-to-back with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCmUWNUzaqo

[Implode]

Haha. Yes, I hear the resemblance.

[Vivace]

One thing I tend to do from time to time is watch the movie by listening to the soundtrack. Never has there been a soundtrack so iconic and epic and memorable, where I can start from track 1 on the remaster 2 disk version and go from beginning to end reliving the whole movie in my head and enjoying every minute of it. Without a doubt, the Star Wars (OT only) are the best soundtracks "ever" (however Peter Gabriel's Passion is my all time favorite soundtrack).

[gmillerdrake]

Sorry to derail the 'musical' chat going on but I have a question that may or may not have been asked/discussed....

In 'Return of the Jedi' when Vadar and Luke are dualing at the end....after Vader lures Luke out with his threat against Lea.....Luke just goes bezerk on Vader....we've all watched it....just a melee of wild saber hits and pummeling. No real 'technique' to it...just pure power. What is your take on why Vader so quickly was overcome and defeated after that. Was the 'force' that Luke had fueled by the 'dark side' in those moments strengthening him beyond what Vader had ever encountered...therefor he was defeated so easily? Was Vader just old and really didn't have much fight left in him? Did he say 'F' it, Luke's the man now I give up...almost a surrender to be put out of his misery.
  Just wondering due to how quickly Vader seemed to go from a very threatening and imposing figure to a helpless being on his back, proping himself up with one hand while meagerly defending himself with another.

[Fiery Winds]

Interesting discussion, and I've always looked at it as Darth Vader not really wanting to kill Luke, but rather have him join him and turn against the Emperor.  He was taunting him in order to turn him towards the dark side, but when it came down to a powerful jedi (at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL) who tapped into his anger, Darth Vader realized the only way he could stop Luke was to kill him, and with that conflict already present in his mind, he couldn't do it. 

[Pols Voice]

(at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL)

Where did you get that info? ROTJ takes place 4 years after ANH, and 1 year after ESB.

[gmillerdrake]

Interesting discussion, and I've always looked at it as Darth Vader not really wanting to kill Luke, but rather have him join him and turn against the Emperor.  He was taunting him in order to turn him towards the dark side, but when it came down to a powerful jedi (at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL) who tapped into his anger, Darth Vader realized the only way he could stop Luke was to kill him, and with that conflict already present in his mind, he couldn't do it.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I will admit that although I am a big fan of Star Wars the extent of 'galaxy far far away' knowledge comes from the movies. I haven't pursued it outside of that...no reading interviews and what not. I'm guessing that's where you learned Lucas' timeline?
  I had always leaned towards what I stated...that once Luke got ticked and defensive he tapped into some of that Dark Side energy and just kicked Vaders butt. Where he and Vader differed would have been right after the moment he had beaten Vader and the Emporer approached him...he was able to gather himself and fight that urge and taste of power...and refuse it.

[Fiery Winds]

(at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL)

Where did you get that info? ROTJ takes place 4 years after ANH, and 1 year after ESB.

You are correct, my memory recalls reading a GL quote stating 10 years, but a look at the official timeline says otherwise.

[Orbert]

Weren't there a few scenes where either Vader or the emperor actually encourage Luke to tap into the Dark Side?  I haven't watched the OT in a while, but I seem to recall Luke fighting one of them, and they're going "Yes, feel the hate, feel the power of the Dark Side, let it strengthen you!" or something like that.  Well, it always seemed to me that Luke got pissed enough to tap into the Dark Side, and that's what enabled him to defeat Vader.

[orcus116]

(at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL)

Where did you get that info? ROTJ takes place 4 years after ANH, and 1 year after ESB.

You are correct, my memory recalls reading a GL quote stating 10 years, but a look at the official timeline says otherwise.

Don't trust Old Man Lucas on anything. Ever.

[ehra]

Weren't there a few scenes where either Vader or the emperor actually encourage Luke to tap into the Dark Side?  I haven't watched the OT in a while, but I seem to recall Luke fighting one of them, and they're going "Yes, feel the hate, feel the power of the Dark Side, let it strengthen you!" or something like that.  Well, it always seemed to me that Luke got pissed enough to tap into the Dark Side, and that's what enabled him to defeat Vader.

Yep. Also notice how, after he's beaten Vadar into submission, he notices he has a robotic arm just like Luke which makes him realize just how close to becoming his dad he is. He realizes how easy it is to slip into the dark side, and then (from what I remember) to fight further.

I also think a good amount of it is Vadar simply not expecting Luke to go as bat shit crazy as he did.

[MetalJunkie]

Vadar.

[ehra]

Like a force sensitive pirate.

[Super Dude]

(at this point, Luke has been training for nearly 10 years according to a timeline from GL)

Where did you get that info? ROTJ takes place 4 years after ANH, and 1 year after ESB.

You are correct, my memory recalls reading a GL quote stating 10 years, but a look at the official timeline says otherwise.

Don't trust Old Man Lucas on anything. Ever.

So unfortunate, so true.

That's why I consult subpar EU writers. (jk EU is awesome)

[Rane]

Musically, both Duel of the Fates and Across the Stars are AWESOME!

As for Vader being "easily" defeated by Luke, I do think it's a burst of rage by Luke that gives him the strength to do it. And that raw emotion that's unleashed by Luke is probably much closer to his full potential than had been realized up to that point. It seems that Luke has a greater connection to the force than even Vader.

Also, it seems like Luke gets the initial jump on Vader in that scene. As Vader is looking for Luke in that "chamber," it seems Luke is meditating so that Vader can't sense him. Once Vader realizes about Leia, Luke flips out and attacks Vader. In that moment, Vader seems to have been surprised as he was looking in a different spot for Luke. So Luke has all the "rage power" (i.e., tapping the dark side) and he gets the initial jump on Vader. Vader basically does all he can to fend off the attack.

[gmillerdrake]

As for Vader being "easily" defeated by Luke, I do think it's a burst of rage by Luke that gives him the strength to do it. And that raw emotion that's unleashed by Luke is probably much closer to his full potential than had been realized up to that point. It seems that Luke has a greater connection to the force than even Vader.

Also, it seems like Luke gets the initial jump on Vader in that scene. As Vader is looking for Luke in that "chamber," it seems Luke is meditating so that Vader can't sense him. Once Vader realizes about Leia, Luke flips out and attacks Vader. In that moment, Vader seems to have been surprised as he was looking in a different spot for Luke. So Luke has all the "rage power" (i.e., tapping the dark side) and he gets the initial jump on Vader. Vader basically does all he can to fend off the attack.

This...and the other suggestions that Luke does tap into a bit of the dark side power is what I've always thought as well....was just curious as to if I was 'in line' with the rest of ya'll.
  What I'm really wondering though is if Lucas really put that much thought into it...what that whole dual scene meant and was like we've described, or if the fans have interpreted it and turned into something greater and more deep than Lucas had ever intended. Was it just a light saber dual to him? Or do you think he intended all of these underlying themes and possibilities?

[ehra]

I'm positive it was fully intended. Now whether that scene originated from Lucas or someone else that was working on the movie, I have no idea.

[Rane]

It's most certainly intentional. The music in the background alone shows that. That music is SUPERB! So even if Lucas has no part in conducting the music, he's still explaining to Williams what the significance is going on.

[hefdaddy42]

(however Peter Gabriel's Passion is my all time favorite soundtrack).

Yeah, that is fantastic.

[Pols Voice]

It's most certainly intentional. The music in the background alone shows that. That music is SUPERB! So even if Lucas has no part in conducting the music, he's still explaining to Williams what the significance is going on.

Yeah, the music is that scene is really haunting.

[Vivace]

Yeah I take the Luke and Vader final battle scene as Luke completely losing control and from that point on he's acting on instinct or the force. For that brief moment, that's not Luke, but pure rage in a physical form. Exactly was Jedi's are trained not to do. Also perhaps Vader was horrified at what he saw. For a moment he saw his son become him and maybe for that split moment Vader realized what he had become. This is why I'm so opposed to the "No". In my mind before Vader even gets up off the ground, he's already fighting his demons.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah I take the Luke and Vader final battle scene as Luke completely losing control and from that point on he's acting on instinct or the force. For that brief moment, that's not Luke, but pure rage in a physical form. Exactly was Jedi's are trained not to do. Also perhaps Vader was horrified at what he saw. For a moment he saw his son become him and maybe for that split moment Vader realized what he had become. This is why I'm so opposed to the "No". In my mind before Vader even gets up off the ground, he's already fighting his demons.

It's like Van Damme and Chong Li at the end of Bloodsport.

[Super Dude]

I love that interpretation, Vivace, especially the part about Vader.

[ZBomber]

The ROTJ duel scene was an amazing moment in movie history, and it really did lose all of its magic with the "No".

[Pols Voice]

The ROTJ Max Rebo Band song was an amazing moment in movie history, and it really did lose all of its magic with the "Jedi Rocks".

[Accelerando]

Actually Through the Stars (I think it's called), the love theme, is the best of them.

You mean Across the Stars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nk_WHHTQtY

Yes, I do. Thank you. I love how the main motive starts with a minor 6th interval as if to represent how the romance failed in contrast to Han and Leia's whose love theme motive begins with a major 6th interval.

Yes, well, listen to it back-to-back with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCmUWNUzaqo

Haha. Yes, I hear the resemblance.

Ahem....erm....um...are ya'll familiar with a little film with Henry Fonda and Catherine Hepburn called On Golden Pond?

Welllllll why don't you take listen, especially at the 2:00 mark....with a few changes, Across The Stars is almost not an original piece
https://youtu.be/Ttd1yDbjUpY