Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[zepp-head]

Vader DID kill Obi-Wan, and lots of Jedi in the temple.  He is the chosen one, and the strongest in raw force power (potential) ever.  Of course Palpatine wanted this

I'm guessing that Palpatine knew that Vader was the chosen one, so he made sure he was on his side. I think?

Sounds fair enough.

He did see pre-Vader a lot during the PT, plus, being a Sith, he probably would have the means of finding out, even if he didn't know him personally.

They DID know each other personally.  Very, very, very well.  Palpatine guided Anakin since he first arrived on Coruscant. 

At the end of the day, Vader did fufill the prophecy by killing Palpatine and effectively killing himself, as he did destroy the Sith, he just went the long way around it

Yes, turning to the dark side elongated the process, but Anakin did fulfill his destiny.  There's actually a theory that says he should've died on Mustafar, but he was kept alive because he hadn't fulfilled his purpose yet. 

And I'm under the impression that the number of Jedi alive at the end of Revenge of the Sith can be counted on one hand. 

[GuineaPig]

At the end of the day, Vader did fufill the prophecy by killing Palpatine and effectively killing himself, as he did destroy the Sith, he just went the long way around it

Screw the "prophecy."  It was retconned bs.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Meanwhile, Clone Wars started up again....according to my 8 year old the premier was "ok" but not a home run.

[Laich21DT]

Pretty much.  The early drafts of Jedi had the opening scene roles reversed, with Jerjerrod being the one dishing out shit to Vader, and the two were at odds with each other for the remainder of the script until Vader choked him to death after trying to stop him from seeing Luke (by order of the Emperor).  Piett remained loyal and perhaps sympathetic to Vader.  That script was more about Vader trying to save his son than the other way around. 

Also in the early drafts of Jedi: weird shit.  By that I mean the ghosts of Obi-Wan and Yoda playing a part in the duel with Vader, blocking lightning, and eventually coming back to life.  That draft left whether or not Vader was redeemed up to the audience as well, since he just tackles the Emperor into lava and they both die.  Some interesting things from that draft though was the inclusion of Coruscant (then called Had Abbadon), and Endor was the forest moon of that planet, meant to be a parallel I suppose.  Also, there were two Death Stars.  Contrary to some rumors, Lando survived the explosion in every known draft of the film.

Interesting. My Star Wars knowledge is solely based off of watching the movies, reading about 25 of the novels, and occaisonally checking out Wookieepedia. So, I had never heard any of that. Cool stuff. 

And yeah, that is some weird shit indeed.

[zepp-head]

At the end of the day, Vader did fufill the prophecy by killing Palpatine and effectively killing himself, as he did destroy the Sith, he just went the long way around it

Screw the "prophecy."  It was retconned bs.

Retconned?  Possibly.  Bullshit?  Nah.  Some of the ideas people complain about, like midi-chlorians, actually were in notes dating all the way back to 1974.  So you might be surprised by the foresight.  Vader even has Hebrew text on his chest that reads "His deeds will not be forgiven until he merits".  Interesting, yeah?

[ACID_FOX]

At the end of the day, Vader did fufill the prophecy by killing Palpatine and effectively killing himself, as he did destroy the Sith, he just went the long way around it

Screw the "prophecy."  It was retconned bs.

Retconned?  Possibly.  Bullshit?  Nah.  Some of the ideas people complain about, like midi-chlorians, actually were in notes dating all the way back to 1974.  So you might be surprised by the foresight.  Vader even has Hebrew text on his chest that reads "His deeds will not be forgiven until he merits".  Interesting, yeah?

Wait what?

[MetalJunkie]

At the end of the day, Vader did fufill the prophecy by killing Palpatine and effectively killing himself, as he did destroy the Sith, he just went the long way around it

Screw the "prophecy."  It was retconned bs.

Retconned?  Possibly.  Bullshit?  Nah.  Some of the ideas people complain about, like midi-chlorians, actually were in notes dating all the way back to 1974.  So you might be surprised by the foresight.  Vader even has Hebrew text on his chest that reads "His deeds will not be forgiven until he merits".  Interesting, yeah?

Wait what?

[ACID_FOX]

What the hell is the in-universe explanation for that?

[MetalJunkie]

According to the wiki on his armor, "a canonical reason for this has not been put forth."

[Xanthul]

Maybe he got drunk and lost a bet so he had to get that tattooed. Happens to the best of us.

[Adami]

So I'm watching Phantom Menace on Blu Ray right now.


Looks great. But based on the acting and the writing, this is seriously like a very high budget Ed Wood movie.


Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

[Fiery Winds]

So I'm watching Phantom Menace on Blu Ray right now.


Looks great. But based on the acting and the writing, this is seriously like a very high budget Ed Wood movie.


Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

Not to mention the scrolling text in TPM says two Jedi Knights were sent to negotiate, but Obi-Wan wasn't given the rank of Jedi Knight until the end of the movie!

[Adami]

I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THAT!


George Lucas continues to deepen the entry of his penis into the anus of my child hood.

[zepp-head]

Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

Problem being?  There are  billions of systems in our galaxy alone.  Plus, every original trilogy planet was in a separate system. 

So I'm watching Phantom Menace on Blu Ray right now.


Looks great. But based on the acting and the writing, this is seriously like a very high budget Ed Wood movie.


Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

Not to mention the scrolling text in TPM says two Jedi Knights were sent to negotiate, but Obi-Wan wasn't given the rank of Jedi Knight until the end of the movie!

It's really used as a moniker.  The opening scroll of The Empire Strikes Back says that the Rebel Alliance is led by Luke Skywalker.  This isn't really a problem since it's used for general story purposes centering on the main characters. 

[Adami]

Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

Problem being?  There are  billions of systems in our galaxy alone.  Plus, every original trilogy planet was in a separate system. 

There's only one solar system in all of the universe. It's ours, named after our star Sol. Everything else is a Star System. There's only one solar system, and there's only one sun. Sci-fi shows and movies that screw that up just bug me a bit.

Luckily it wasn't the worst part about AOTC.

[Xanthul]

Luckily it wasn't the worst part about AOTC.

I think you mean "unfortunately"... I wish that was my biggest complaint with the movie.

[Adami]

Luckily it wasn't the worst part about AOTC.

I think you mean "unfortunately"... I wish that was my biggest complaint with the movie.

Touche. But seriously, they really are like high budget Ed Wood movies.

I think George just needs to realize his strengths and weaknesses. He is AMAZING at telling a good story, he is also amazing at coming up with interesting worlds, characters etc. The only things he needs to stop doing is writing screenplays and directing. If the prequels would have had good writers doing the dialogue and good directors shooting on more than just a huge green screen they really could have been great movies.

[zepp-head]

Just started AOTC. Just finished the scrolling text at the beginning and it already pissed me off. "Thousands of Solar Systems"? Really George? There are multiple Solar Systems?

Problem being?  There are  billions of systems in our galaxy alone.  Plus, every original trilogy planet was in a separate system. 

There's only one solar system in all of the universe. It's ours, named after our star Sol. Everything else is a Star System. There's only one solar system, and there's only one sun. Sci-fi shows and movies that screw that up just bug me a bit.

Luckily it wasn't the worst part about AOTC.

Semantics. 

And since we're back to hating, I'm ducking out of this thread.  I finished Return of the Jedi just a bit a go and I have to say I love the blu-ray set as a whole.  I had a wonderful time watching them and I'm sure I'll enjoy them many more times to come. 

[Adami]

lol it's not that big of a deal.


But I finished the prequel trilogy, and yea great story just horribly executed. I don't hate it, but I don't really enjoy much of it. However I am very much looking forward to the original trilogy and those are just same great movies.

[GuineaPig]

I don't think it's a great story at all.

[Adami]

I don't think it's a great story at all.

I know you don't sweety. I'd be worried if you did.

[Ryzee]

So I've got a 2 year old kid who's really into Star Wars now and he's led me to see the films in a new light and gain a new appreciation for them.  Yes the prequels are fairly stupid, yes the changes to the OT are fairly annoying and yes it's quite annoying that Georgey boy won't release the original versions we all know and love in a quality format.  But really, what are you gonna do? (Other than not buy the new versions and/or bitch about them on the internet for all eternity). My opinion is, and has been for awhile, that they are kid's/family movies.  Not meant to be taken super cereal.  I'm not really one to cry "omg raping my childhood" either.  My childhood is far behind me.  There's a ton of things I dug during childhood that I now realize are stupid, but I still look at them with fond nostalgia because at the time they brought me happiness.  We all loved these movies when we were kids, and kids these days love them.  That's it.  The end.  Cue Ewok dance party!

P.S.- I'm not trying to tell the complainers to stop complaining.  By all means, bitch on!  That is your God-given right as citizens of the internets.  I'm just throwing in my two cents, for what it's worth (which is not much).

[dbrooks22]

Touche. But seriously, they really are like high budget Ed Wood movies.

I think George just needs to realize his strengths and weaknesses. He is AMAZING at telling a good story, he is also amazing at coming up with interesting worlds, characters etc. The only things he needs to stop doing is writing screenplays and directing. If the prequels would have had good writers doing the dialogue and good directors shooting on more than just a huge green screen they really could have been great movies.

He also needs to stop casting.  Hayden was downright awful.

[Adami]

So I'm watching A New Hope, so far at the part where they destroy Alderaan.


WTF, why did I never notice that Leia was speaking in a british accent?

[Adami]

Well looks like she dropped the accent. Strange.


Anywho, so that scene where Obi-Wan is fighting Vader, and right before Vader strikes him down, Luke says "Ben?" and Obi-Wan looks at him, then looks at Vader with a smirk................what an amazing moment. God damnit Alec Guiness, I know you hated the movies but you really were amazing.

[Zook]

Well looks like she dropped the accent. Strange.


Anywho, so that scene where Obi-Wan is fighting Vader, and right before Vader strikes him down, Luke says "Ben?" and Obi-Wan looks at him, then looks at Vader with a smirk................what an amazing moment. God damnit Alec Guiness, I know you hated the movies but you really were amazing.

That's Sir Alec Guiness, and don't you forget it!

[Adami]

Sorry son.

Just finishing up A New Hope. God damn this was a great movie, especially after watching the Prequels. It just had heart, charisma, character, boobs, and genuineness. Things the prequels generally lacked.

[snapple]

Isn't having two dudes who can fuck shit up better than having just one?

It's like asking why the Mongols needed Genghis Khan and Subotai.

 

[Zook]

Sorry son.

Just finishing up A New Hope. God damn this was a great movie, especially after watching the Prequels. It just had heart, charisma, character, boobs, and genuineness. Things the prequels generally lacked.

It's ok dad. You're still #1.

[Cool Chris]

One important thing I think that distinguishes the two is that in 4-6, things took time to develop: stories, relationships, dialogue. Things feel so rushed in 1-3. I know GL was trying to fit in many plot elements, action sequences and such. But ultimately the overall was sacrificed. Think about the important dialogue scenes in 4-6; then compare them to the important ones in 1-3. Anakin declaring his love for Padme by the fire, for example. That scene lasts, what, 20 seconds? And it follows some equally abrupt and weak scenes of them together. “Obi-Wan doesn’t like when I use the force to move fruit across the table blah blah blah.” Their relationship doesn’t have time to develop, so that we don’t accept that there could be one. But yet, when Leia tells Han she loves him, we don’t doubt her for a second, because of how it was build up.

This makes more sense in my mind than it does now that I read this…

[GuineaPig]

I don't think the timing's the issue.  The OT were pretty densely plotted as well.  They were on the Death Star 45 minutes into Star Wars.

[Super Dude]

So I've got a 2 year old kid who's really into Star Wars now and he's led me to see the films in a new light and gain a new appreciation for them.  Yes the prequels are fairly stupid, yes the changes to the OT are fairly annoying and yes it's quite annoying that Georgey boy won't release the original versions we all know and love in a quality format.  But really, what are you gonna do? (Other than not buy the new versions and/or bitch about them on the internet for all eternity). My opinion is, and has been for awhile, that they are kid's/family movies.  Not meant to be taken super cereal.  I'm not really one to cry "omg raping my childhood" either.  My childhood is far behind me.  There's a ton of things I dug during childhood that I now realize are stupid, but I still look at them with fond nostalgia because at the time they brought me happiness.  We all loved these movies when we were kids, and kids these days love them.  That's it.  The end.  Cue Ewok dance party!

P.S.- I'm not trying to tell the complainers to stop complaining.  By all means, bitch on!  That is your God-given right as citizens of the internets.  I'm just throwing in my two cents, for what it's worth (which is not much).

In the 70s and 80s when critics complained that Star Wars was essentially a children's film, Lucas responded that the story of Star Wars was actually quite dark and ought to be taken seriously.  When he released the prequels and critics wondered where the dark story and seriousness they had given to the OT were, Lucas responded that they were children's films.

[orcus116]

I don't think the timing's the issue.  The OT were pretty densely plotted as well.  They were on the Death Star 45 minutes into Star Wars.

Yeah, the prequel's problem is how almost sterile and businesslike the plot is. Wait so we're supposed to actually care about intergalactic trade politics and its repercussions if we want know the motives behind major characters? Yeah, pass.

[ehra]

In the 70s and 80s when critics complained that Star Wars was essentially a children's film, Lucas responded that the story of Star Wars was actually quite dark and ought to be taken seriously.  When he released the prequels and critics wondered where the dark story and seriousness they had given to the OT were, Lucas responded that they were children's films.

I hate bringing those RLM reviews up in SW discussions, but when I hear the "they're kids movies" comments I can't help picturing the bits where the two kids are sitting in front of the TV watching the boring political talk. Or Anikan killing the kids. Or Anikan being burned alive. 

[Ryzee]

In the 70s and 80s when critics complained that Star Wars was essentially a children's film, Lucas responded that the story of Star Wars was actually quite dark and ought to be taken seriously.  When he released the prequels and critics wondered where the dark story and seriousness they had given to the OT were, Lucas responded that they were children's films.

I hate bringing those RLM reviews up in SW discussions, but when I hear the "they're kids movies" comments I can't help picturing the bits where the two kids are sitting in front of the TV watching the boring political talk. Or Anikan killing the kids. Or Anikan being burned alive. 

Good points for sure, but that's why I said that it's just my opinion and I'm in no way trying to say that criticism of the series shouldn't continue.  I guess it's just when I see comments like "omg it says two jedi knights but obi-wan wasn't a jedi knight till the end of the movie!  what bullshit!" I can't help but think that maybe we should  a bit and not take the whole thing so seriously.  When I'm seeing how much fun my kid has playing lightsabers and stuff it helps me ignore all the dumb crap in Star Wars and focus on the fun stuff.  And yes, of course they're not "kid's movies" like Madagascar or something like that but come on, they don't exactly make lunchpails and breakfast cereals and flamethrowers (the kids love this one) for every movie out there.  There's no official Black Swan action figures (I suppose mainly because we'd all just have our Nina and Lily figures make out with each other).