Author Topic: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players  (Read 13031 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ClairvoyantCat

  • DT is no longer Majesty.
  • Posts: 3185
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2011, 08:26:02 PM »
No it's not. 


I don't know how else to put it, but...






No it's not.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2011, 08:29:16 PM »
Yes it is.  If I do a bend from the 4th to a 5th, it is going to be more "soulful" than a bend from the 2nd to a 3rd.  Music is all physics and wavelengths and crap.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2011, 08:34:24 PM »
MemberH, you can try, but you can't just quantify artistic expression so neatly like that.

Offline ClairvoyantCat

  • DT is no longer Majesty.
  • Posts: 3185
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2011, 08:35:31 PM »
I guess music and soul isn't real then.  Too bad, it had a good run. 

Offline zxlkho

  • Official Dream Theater Hater.
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2011, 08:36:25 PM »
I guess music and soul isn't real then.  Too bad, it had a good run. 
Aw really? Well shit, I was hoping it would be real this time.
I AM A GUY
You're a fucking stupid bitch.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2011, 08:37:29 PM »
Well, it's real enough.  It can just be scientifically analyzed along with everything else in our lovely universe.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline ClairvoyantCat

  • DT is no longer Majesty.
  • Posts: 3185
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »
What would you know you're just a combination of chemicals banging together you aren't real

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59746
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2011, 08:50:59 PM »
What would you know you're just a combination of chemicals banging together you aren't real

I've had chemicals that made me bang all over.....that made her bend.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Ravenheart

  • Hair
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3263
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2011, 09:19:36 PM »
I assume you guys are talking about "soul", which in reality is just as mathematical as technicality.
Not really.

I'm not a fan of the whole "it's my opinion and if you don't like it I'm calling the WHAAAAAAAAmbulance" defense when comparing or arguing anything, but that's kind of a weird viewpoint.

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2011, 09:56:58 PM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2011, 09:59:10 PM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.
Not sure what you mean and how it overturns what I'm saying.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15790
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2011, 10:01:47 PM »
For me its the range in styles they know, how they use the guitar as a voice.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline ehra

  • Posts: 3362
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2011, 10:15:20 PM »
Yes it is.  If I do a bend from the 4th to a 5th, it is going to be more "soulful" than a bend from the 2nd to a 3rd.  

Even if you could get everyone to perfectly agree on what is or isn't "soulful" you'd still be wrong because everyone prefers different types of playing to different degrees, which obviously affects which guitarists they think are best.

Offline ScioPath

  • the king of dance
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2236
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2011, 06:01:16 AM »
Music, as well as any art, possesses a meaning greater than the combination of elements that make it up. You can dissect the art into its elements but you can't dissect it into what makes it art.

And even if we could, why would we want to? Do you even know what happens when you methodize music?!





:friday: :friday: :friday: :scheavo:

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59746
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2011, 06:09:27 AM »
It's always a personal thing.  What style do you like the most out of a guitarist.  It's always been subjective.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2011, 06:54:30 AM »
Yes it is.  If I do a bend from the 4th to a 5th, it is going to be more "soulful" than a bend from the 2nd to a 3rd.  Music is all physics and wavelengths and crap.

I would really love to hear the justification for a statement like this.  Ehra's right, not every will agree on what's soulful.  For example, I'd likely find that bending a note a whole step or more, as opposed to the half step you mentioned, would probably sound more soulful to my ears.  Music is not all physics and wavelengths and crap.  Technically, yes, those things make up the what your ears and brain translate into music, but no.  To say that's all it is is doing it a major disservice.


When it comes to comparing musicians against each other, I don't see much point in any comparison outside of "I enjoy X more than Y."

Elitist.  Y kicks ass.  Did you ever hear any of his earlier stuff?

Offline ehra

  • Posts: 3362
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2011, 07:09:24 AM »
X could play Y's discography with his ass, that makes him better. But I guess I could see why someone would prefer Y if they can't appreciate butt rock for the superior genre of music that it is.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2011, 07:16:52 AM »
Hell, I could play a better solo with my ass after a night of heavy boozing than X could.  In fact, I have.  Butt rock, indeed.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 07:24:17 AM by Sir GuitarCozmo »

Offline Ravenheart

  • Hair
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3263
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2011, 07:56:51 AM »
 :lol :lol

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2011, 07:57:22 AM »
Yes it is.  If I do a bend from the 4th to a 5th, it is going to be more "soulful" than a bend from the 2nd to a 3rd.  Music is all physics and wavelengths and crap.

I would really love to hear the justification for a statement like this.  Ehra's right, not every will agree on what's soulful.  For example, I'd likely find that bending a note a whole step or more, as opposed to the half step you mentioned, would probably sound more soulful to my ears.  Music is not all physics and wavelengths and crap.  Technically, yes, those things make up the what your ears and brain translate into music, but no.  To say that's all it is is doing it a major disservice.
In the first place, a bend from the 4th to the 5th is a whole step, so we are actually in agreement here.

When we are comparing which of two players is better/more soulful/more skilled, here's my philosophy: there is an objective answer.  Now, here's the caveat: it is impossible to know unless you are somehow omniscient.

I like to think of it in terms of statistics.  In the real world, we don't know the true parameters of a population, but we can make educated guesses based on limited knowledge.  Sometimes we'll be right, sometimes we'll be wrong.

For example, let's say that there is some omniscient genie.  He knows the who is the better player between David Gilmour and John Petrucci (for the example's sake, let's say the truly better player is JP).  But we humans don't actually know this.  Instead, we compare them using various "tests" we concoct.  One person might say, "JP is more technical," someeone else will say "DG is more soulful" and they'll butt heads, because, ultimately, these two indviduals don't know the who-is-better formula and how much technicality or soul play into that forumula.

Everybody has convictions on who is "better".  But obviously, two contradicting beliefs can't both be right.  Two different people have two different "data sets" that they are using to come to their conclusions.  As we grow in knowledge and experience, our "data set" becomes larger and we slowly become more certain of our convictions (although we'll never have complete knowledge like the genie).

Yeah so that's my view.  Obviously I am not the genie and neither is anybody else.  But I believe that there is an objective answer somewhere in the clouds that we'll never know, as opposed to everything just being subjective.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2011, 07:59:36 AM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.
Not sure what you mean and how it overturns what I'm saying.
You have no mathematics in your statement, so don't claim it as so.  Your argument, or lack-there-of, for well ordering boils down to "You < TS < JP" so all elements can be ordered.  So you ignore that objective comparison could, and almost assuredly does, lead to a poset, but then base you claims on an unfounded assumption.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2011, 08:03:41 AM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.
Not sure what you mean and how it overturns what I'm saying.
You have no mathematics in your statement, so don't claim it as so.  Your argument, or lack-there-of, for well ordering boils down to "You < TS < JP" so all elements can be ordered.  So you ignore that objective comparison could, and almost assuredly does, lead to a poset, but then base you claims on an unfounded assumption.
I guess I'm combining math with philosophical fundamentalism.

My assumption is that me<TS<JP because we fundamentally have to start somewhere, and this seems like a pretty solid place.  If you were to challenge the idea that me<TS<JP is not true, then I'd call you crazy....just as crazy as a person that says we are actually living in the Matrix.  While it might be true, it is ultimately a crazy thing to say given what we know.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2011, 08:04:36 AM »
In the first place, a bend from the 4th to the 5th is a whole step, so we are actually in agreement here.

When we are comparing which of two players is better/more soulful/more skilled, here's my philosophy: there is an objective answer.  Now, here's the caveat: it is impossible to know unless you are somehow omniscient.

I like to think of it in terms of statistics.  In the real world, we don't know the true parameters of a population, but we can make educated guesses based on limited knowledge.  Sometimes we'll be right, sometimes we'll be wrong.

For example, let's say that there is some omniscient genie.  He knows the who is the better player between David Gilmour and John Petrucci (for the example's sake, let's say the truly better player is JP).  But we humans don't actually know this.  Instead, we compare them using various "tests" we concoct.  One person might say, "JP is more technical," someeone else will say "DG is more soulful" and they'll butt heads, because, ultimately, these two indviduals don't know the who-is-better formula and how much technicality or soul play into that forumula.

Everybody has convictions on who is "better".  But obviously, two contradicting beliefs can't both be right.  Two different people have two different "data sets" that they are using to come to their conclusions.  As we grow in knowledge and experience, our "data set" becomes larger and we slowly become more certain of our convictions (although we'll never have complete knowledge like the genie).

Yeah so that's my view.  Obviously I am not the genie and neither is anybody else.  But I believe that there is an objective answer somewhere in the clouds that we'll never know, as opposed to everything just being subjective.

Well, first of all, if you mean 4th to 5th, in terms of major scale steps, then yes, that's a whole step.  I was under the impression you meant from 4th fret to 5th fret, which is a half step.

I see what you're saying, but to me, there is no best, even to an omniscient being.  The only way a guitarist could be the "best" would be if they were an omniscient being themselves.  All-knowing and all-capable.  No guitarist will ever be able to know everything there is to know about guitar, and play anything that can be played on guitar (regardless of how technical or simple it is), so there can be no "best".

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2011, 08:07:22 AM »
Well, first of all, if you mean 4th to 5th, in terms of major scale steps, then yes, that's a whole step.  I was under the impression you meant from 4th fret to 5th fret, which is a half step.
Oh ok, glad that misunderstanding is cleared up.  I was afraid that I was saying something musically stupid, because afterall you are Sir Guitarcozmo. :lol
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2011, 08:08:53 AM »
:lol

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2011, 08:19:58 AM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.
Not sure what you mean and how it overturns what I'm saying.
You have no mathematics in your statement, so don't claim it as so.  Your argument, or lack-there-of, for well ordering boils down to "You < TS < JP" so all elements can be ordered.  So you ignore that objective comparison could, and almost assuredly does, lead to a poset, but then base you claims on an unfounded assumption.
I guess I'm combining math with philosophical fundamentalism.

My assumption is that me<TS<JP because we fundamentally have to start somewhere, and this seems like a pretty solid place.  If you were to challenge the idea that me<TS<JP is not true, then I'd call you crazy....just as crazy as a person that says we are actually living in the Matrix.  While it might be true, it is ultimately a crazy thing to say given what we know.
What?  First, math is logic and philosophy is supposed to be logic.  You're just plain using flawed logic.

The problem is you take you < TS < JP and jump to an assumption the set is well ordered, not that you take you < TS < JP as fact.  You show some elements are ordered, that's all.  That's only a poset.  You then make some kind of argument based on it being a well ordered set, a baseless jump.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2011, 08:23:17 AM »
Mathematically speaking, if you progressively move up the ladder, from me, to TS, to someone else, the difference in skill level between JP and the specimen will get smaller and smaller........but it will still be there.

Therefore, I think that there must exist some kind of criteria for determining which guitar player is objectively better than another.  Although I have no idea what that criteria would be.  :lol
Posets are not a hard concept to grasp, read about them before you start writing about mathematics and orderings.
Not sure what you mean and how it overturns what I'm saying.
You have no mathematics in your statement, so don't claim it as so.  Your argument, or lack-there-of, for well ordering boils down to "You < TS < JP" so all elements can be ordered.  So you ignore that objective comparison could, and almost assuredly does, lead to a poset, but then base you claims on an unfounded assumption.
I guess I'm combining math with philosophical fundamentalism.

My assumption is that me<TS<JP because we fundamentally have to start somewhere, and this seems like a pretty solid place.  If you were to challenge the idea that me<TS<JP is not true, then I'd call you crazy....just as crazy as a person that says we are actually living in the Matrix.  While it might be true, it is ultimately a crazy thing to say given what we know.
What?  First, math is logic and philosophy is supposed to be logic.  You're just plain using flawed logic.

The problem is you take you < TS < JP and jump to an assumption the set is well ordered, not that you take you < TS < JP as fact.  You show some elements are ordered, that's all.  That's only a poset.  You then make some kind of argument based on it being a well ordered set, a baseless jump.
I could keep going?  For example, Justin Bieber probably fits snugly between me and TS.  And David Gilmour is at least higher than TS, debatedly better or worse than JP, but he's in JP's vicinity.  Or take a newborn, which I can proudly claim as being worse at guitar than I am.

Since the number of guitar players is finite, I don't think it's farfetch'd to say that you could make a spectrum out of it.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline ClairvoyantCat

  • DT is no longer Majesty.
  • Posts: 3185
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2011, 08:38:16 AM »
Well, I think it's absolutely far fetched, and I don't really see where you connect the dots to say that there could be any sort of an objective scale.  Saying that there is some sort of a mathematical scale of guitarists would imply that everyone on the listening side of things has exactly the same ear for guitar playing. 

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2011, 08:40:41 AM »
Saying that there is some sort of a mathematical scale of guitarists would imply that everyone on the listening side of things has exactly the same ear for guitar playing. 
What do you mean by this?
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline ehra

  • Posts: 3362
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2011, 08:43:28 AM »
Even if you could get everyone to perfectly agree on what is or isn't "soulful" you'd still be wrong because everyone prefers different types of playing to different degrees, which obviously affects which guitarists they think are best.

Offline yorost

  • Inactive
  • Posts: 7862
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2011, 08:46:17 AM »
I could keep going?  For example, Justin Bieber probably fits snugly between me and TS.  And David Gilmour is at least higher than TS, debatedly better or worse than JP, but he's in JP's vicinity.  Or take a newborn, which I can proudly claim as being worse at guitar than I am.

Since the number of guitar players is finite, I don't think it's farfetch'd to say that you could make a spectrum out of it.
Finding more examples isn't the problem.  Finite or infinite doesn't matter here at all.  Until you prove well ordering you have no mathematical evidence of it to base an argument off of.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2011, 08:47:39 AM »
Even if you could get everyone to perfectly agree on what is or isn't "soulful" you'd still be wrong because everyone prefers different types of playing to different degrees, which obviously affects which guitarists they think are best.
But it's not about what people think that makes a guitarist soulful.  A soulful guitarist is soulful whether or not a listener acknowledges it.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2011, 08:49:36 AM »
And every listener will acknowledge it differently, if they acknowledge it at all.  There can be no apples-to-apples comparison it would seem.

Offline ehra

  • Posts: 3362
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2011, 08:58:24 AM »
Even if you could get everyone to perfectly agree on what is or isn't "soulful" you'd still be wrong because everyone prefers different types of playing to different degrees, which obviously affects which guitarists they think are best.
But it's not about what people think that makes a guitarist soulful.  A soulful guitarist is soulful whether or not a listener acknowledges it.

And the point I'm making is that even IF you could get everyone to agree on what is or isn't soulful, and IF you can mathematically prove that X guitarist is "most soulful," that doesn't suddenly make them the best because not everyone values "soulful playing" as much as the next person.

You could break down everything that makes a guitarist "good" into simple mathematical terms and you still couldn't come up with one unified "best guitarists" list because each person prefers those different attributes to different degrees.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Best Way to Compare Guitar Players
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2011, 09:06:59 AM »
Even if you could get everyone to perfectly agree on what is or isn't "soulful" you'd still be wrong because everyone prefers different types of playing to different degrees, which obviously affects which guitarists they think are best.
But it's not about what people think that makes a guitarist soulful.  A soulful guitarist is soulful whether or not a listener acknowledges it.

And the point I'm making is that even IF you could get everyone to agree on what is or isn't soulful, and IF you can mathematically prove that X guitarist is "most soulful," that doesn't suddenly make them the best because not everyone values "soulful playing" as much as the next person.

You could break down everything that makes a guitarist "good" into simple mathematical terms and you still couldn't come up with one unified "best guitarists" list because each person prefers those different attributes to different degrees.
I think we are disagreeing because you're saying that all these factors are dependent on the perception of the listener, while I am not.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges