Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[Progmetty]

Excited about Ian McShane! Some cocksuckers in the North need some salon style beating heh

[cramx3]

I dont know if this is spoilers or not, but one of the "questionable" deaths from the season 5 finale has apparently been confirmed as legit by GRRM.

Stannis apparently was in fact killed by Brienne

https://www.enstarz.com/articles/115387/20151023/game-of-thrones-cast-news-stannis-death-confirmed-was-character-killed-in-season-5-finale-photo.htm

While the show runners have been saying this, they've also said Jon Snow is dead which we all know is not going to be the case and also GRRM has confirmed Stannis is still alive in the books so that is why his death was still questionable.  Regardless, I'd imagine he dies soon in the next book as the pink letter does seem to be legit.

[Dimitrius]

I thought it was a forthcoming book ABOUT the show that confirmed that and not GRRM.

[cramx3]

I thought it was a forthcoming book ABOUT the show that confirmed that and not GRRM.

Yea the link I used stated that the confirmation was from the book based on the show (not GRRM), but there was another article I couldnt find today where GRRM wrote an open letter to all of the dead characters on the show who arent dead in the books, and he was included (yet Jon Snow was not).

As for next season, there have been spoilers out there about casting and filming locations which I have mostly avoided, but a few of the things I did read about have got me excited. 

[Genowyn]

Perhaps that character is really going to die in the books, which would break my heart because he is the one true king of Westeros.

However it will absolutely NOT be handled how it was in the show. For one the character responsible is >1000 miles away from him. The circumstances, meaning, and consequences of that death will be quite different in the books.

The TV show is bad fanfic.

[Dimitrius]

I wouldn't say the TV show as a whole is bad fanfic, but the fifth season certainly felt like that!

[faizoff]

For me each season gets better than the previous. Season 4 is my absolute favorite with the 5 a very close second. I'm already in crazy GOT mood and have rewatching all episodes already!

[Genowyn]

For me each season gets better than the previous. Season 4 is my absolute favorite with the 5 a very close second. I'm already in crazy GOT mood and have rewatching all episodes already!

I just don't understand...

[faizoff]

The TV show is bad fanfic.

well...

I just don't understand...

neither do I

[Genowyn]

Have you read the books?

And even if you haven't season 5 was just terrible. Nothing anyone did made any sense (please try to explain to me how Littlefinger's plans were not completely idiotic) people teleported, what was the point of Dorne exactly?

Personally I feel the exact opposite of you. The show has been getting worse each season.

[Tyrias]

As someone who has read the books, I think the show has gotten better with each Season, up until 4. While Season 5 had some of the series best episodes (e.g. Hardhome, which is probably a top3 episdoe for me), there were some things dragging it down very much. The whole Dorne plotline for example. I felt like they knew books 4 and 5 were just largely not convertible into a TV-series and just tried to make it as concise as possible and keep the disaster that is some parts of Season 5 as short as possible so that they could go on with the good stuff afterwards.

[RuRoRul]

As someone who has read the books, I think the show has gotten better with each Season, up until 4. While Season 5 had some of the series best episodes (e.g. Hardhome, which is probably a top3 episdoe for me), there were some things dragging it down very much. The whole Dorne plotline for example. I felt like they knew books 4 and 5 were just largely not convertible into a TV-series and just tried to make it as concise as possible and keep the disaster that is some parts of Season 5 as short as possible so that they could go on with the good stuff afterwards.

I would agree with this. (Well, I don't know if I would rank the first 4 seasons 4>3>2>1 exactly, but I think there was at least a sense the show as a whole was improving or maintaining its overall level of quality). Season 5 had bigger flaws than the previous season, but then possibly the best individual episode of the show (Hardhome - the bulk of which was completely original show material) and was overall pretty good. I think they struggled with doing book 4 and 5 where GRRM basically expanded the story even more and in some cases things moved at a glacial pace - the show really could not afford to do the same and took a lot of shortcuts and alternative routes, some of which worked fine but others ended up rushed and pretty bad (primarily Dorne imo).

The show is by definition not "fanfiction". If you think the TV show is bad in its own right then fair enough, regurgitating the "lol D&D are just making bad fanfic" line is the fastest way to make any reasonable, non book-purist circle-jerkers tune your opinion out though.

[cramx3]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

[Prog Snob]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

It's my 2nd favorite show behind Californication. 

As to everything else you said, I'm going to assume the less than brilliant storytelling in season five has something to do with the creators of the show having to improvise more with the storyline.

[cramx3]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

It's my 2nd favorite show behind Californication. 

As to everything else you said, I'm going to assume the less than brilliant storytelling in season five has something to do with the creators of the show having to improvise more with the storyline.

Yup, when you think about it, who is going to write the story better, GRRM or the show writers?  Then when you add in what the show DID base off of GRRM, that source material is some of the weakest in the series.  I get the feeling though that season 6 is going to be great, and it will likely be less of GRRM material and more of the show fan fiction, but I think last season started to set things up so that the following seasons will be able to be stronger.

[Prog Snob]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

It's my 2nd favorite show behind Californication. 

As to everything else you said, I'm going to assume the less than brilliant storytelling in season five has something to do with the creators of the show having to improvise more with the storyline.

Yup, when you think about it, who is going to write the story better, GRRM or the show writers?  Then when you add in what the show DID base off of GRRM, that source material is some of the weakest in the series.  I get the feeling though that season 6 is going to be great, and it will likely be less of GRRM material and more of the show fan fiction, but I think last season started to set things up so that the following seasons will be able to be stronger.

That's exactly what I think. There were undoubtedly many things being setup for us.  To me, a lot of the first half of the season was severely dragging along. I was actually starting to lose hope because like we both agreed, the storytelling was just weak. Contrarily, the last few episodes were some of the best ever. From Tyrion's appeareance to Daenerys claiming himself as "The Gift" to Jon Snow's "death" scene, I was wetting myself.

[cramx3]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

It's my 2nd favorite show behind Californication. 

As to everything else you said, I'm going to assume the less than brilliant storytelling in season five has something to do with the creators of the show having to improvise more with the storyline.

Yup, when you think about it, who is going to write the story better, GRRM or the show writers?  Then when you add in what the show DID base off of GRRM, that source material is some of the weakest in the series.  I get the feeling though that season 6 is going to be great, and it will likely be less of GRRM material and more of the show fan fiction, but I think last season started to set things up so that the following seasons will be able to be stronger.

That's exactly what I think. There were undoubtedly many things being setup for us.  To me, a lot of the first half of the season was severely dragging along. I was actually starting to lose hope because like we both agreed, the storytelling was just weak. Contrarily, the last few episodes were some of the best ever. From Tyrion's appeareance to Daenerys claiming himself as "The Gift" to Jon Snow's "death" scene, I was wetting myself.

Yup, and as others mentioned, Hardhome which was totally made up by the show was one of the best if not the best moment of the entire series.  Man I am pumped for next season lol too bad its still so far away.

[Prog Snob]

Yea I agree wiht lots of what was said.  I think the show was getting better each season until 5.  Im not a total downer on that season as there was a lot of good stuff going on, both from the book material and show created material, but the story telling wasn't as good.  Certain plotlines, specifically Dorne, were just poorly done.

I will say this though, the show has strayed further and further from the books, but I do wonder if some of those changes are part of the reason why season 5 was so dull.  I think there was a lot of set up there for future plot lines, specifically Dorne.

Personally, I still think it's the best show I have ever seen.

It's my 2nd favorite show behind Californication. 

As to everything else you said, I'm going to assume the less than brilliant storytelling in season five has something to do with the creators of the show having to improvise more with the storyline.

Yup, when you think about it, who is going to write the story better, GRRM or the show writers?  Then when you add in what the show DID base off of GRRM, that source material is some of the weakest in the series.  I get the feeling though that season 6 is going to be great, and it will likely be less of GRRM material and more of the show fan fiction, but I think last season started to set things up so that the following seasons will be able to be stronger.

That's exactly what I think. There were undoubtedly many things being setup for us.  To me, a lot of the first half of the season was severely dragging along. I was actually starting to lose hope because like we both agreed, the storytelling was just weak. Contrarily, the last few episodes were some of the best ever. From Tyrion's appeareance to Daenerys claiming himself as "The Gift" to Jon Snow's "death" scene, I was wetting myself.

Yup, and as others mentioned, Hardhome which was totally made up by the show was one of the best if not the best moment of the entire series.  Man I am pumped for next season lol too bad its still so far away.

I'm hoping the book comes out before the season starts. 

[faizoff]

Have you read the books?

Yes, I've read books 1 - 3. When I watch the show I don't compare how it was to the book. I'm not a purist, for me the two are separate entities and I treat them as such. What any character does in the books or would most likely do in the books has zero bearing for me on what to expect how the show chooses to portray them. For me apart from the Sand sisters everything in the show was done very well and consistent with what each character has been doing each episode and each season.

And even if you haven't season 5 was just terrible.

You're stating that as a fact, I enjoyed it quite a lot so obviously you're wrong.

Nothing anyone did made any sense (please try to explain to me how Littlefinger's plans were not completely idiotic) people teleported, what was the point of Dorne exactly?
Personally I feel the exact opposite of you. The show has been getting worse each season.

You're free to feel what you like, but I get the feeling you've made up your mind that everything was awful so no point in discussing further. I don't try to think whether anything made sense or not, I look at it as whether it was consistent with what was shown to us and if I relate. To me I enjoyed a large chunk of the Dorne story arc, it's just the Sand sisters characters I didn't care for much.

[cramx3]

Everyone says LF's plans make no sense, the problem with that statement is that we do not know LF's true intentions, therefore how can anyone judge his plans?

Yes, on the surface it looks idiotic to leave Sansa with Ramsay, but we all know LF is playing both sides of the game.  His plans aren't going to make sense to anyone but himself with whatever his goal is in mind (likely the iron throne).  I can wait until this plays out before I judge the writers as being terrible.  We've seen time and time again that this show (or book) will set up plot lines seasons in advance to set something up later.

I do read the westoros.org forum often and soooo many people compare the books to the show, they are separate and some people will never be able to enjoy the show because of the constant comparisons to the book.

[kaos2900]

I actually enjoy the show more than the books. The books are good, but the show is just on another level. I actually think I'm not going to read the new book(s) until the show is finished just because I don't want to be spoiled anymore.

[cramx3]

I actually enjoy the show more than the books. The books are good, but the show is just on another level. I actually think I'm not going to read the new book(s) until the show is finished just because I don't want to be spoiled anymore.

I don't think I will be able to hold myself back if the books do come out before the show.  I'm not sure which I like better, I like TV better as a median so maybe I gravitate towards the show a bit more (I also watched the first two seasons and then read the books) but the books are amazing and have so much more depth to the characters, world, and plots.

[kaos2900]

I'm pretty sure it will be another 10 years before the final book is released unless he has more of it written than he is letting on.

[cramx3]

I'm pretty sure it will be another 10 years before the final book is released unless he has more of it written than he is letting on.

True, although the next book is possible to be out around the time of season 6, that is more of what I was refering too since the book after that will not be out until the show is over unless like you said, he has been writing it in secrecy.

[faizoff]

I actually think I'm not going to read the new book(s) until the show is finished just because I don't want to be spoiled anymore.

It's why I've held off reading books 4 & 5 prior to season 5 airing, I didn't want to know anything that happens. Though I might read those after watching all of season 6 because hopefully all the material in those books would've been covered by then.

[Evermind]

For what it's worth, I agree with Genowyn. I'm still doubting if I should watch S6 at all. I'll probably do it just so people won't be able to spoil anything to me and to see some great acting (excited to see Ian McShane in the show) and to have an occasional laugh or two.

I recently rewatched S1, and the difference in quality is just staggering for me. I hardly can believe the show come from that amazing level of writing (even the made-up scenes were amazing, except probably that unnecessarly long sexposition in LF's brothel) to this parody of a plot which S5 was.

I'm hoping the book comes out before the season starts. 

I really hope it happens, but there was no news about the book at all last six months I think, and my hopes are rapidly dwindling on that matter.

[BlackInk]

I would agree that season 5 is the season with the most issues. But I don't think that it's bad, at all. It remains my favorite show. And I have read the books, and I love them, but I also see them seperate things. I also understand the challanges that come with adapting the very long and some of the most complex books ever into 10 hour seasons with a very limited budget.

[Genowyn]

Ech

I would post essays talking about how sexist and nonsensical season 5 was but I'll just let you guys enjoy your Carol, Larry, St. Tyrion and Batfinger. I'm sure they would just be poo-pooed as book snobbery anyway.

[RuRoRul]

Ech

I would post essays talking about how sexist and nonsensical season 5 was but I'll just let you guys enjoy your Carol, Larry, St. Tyrion and Batfinger. I'm sure they would just be poo-pooed as book snobbery anyway.

Well yes, if the way you express your opinion is via regurgitating the jargon that's impenetrable to normal fans and only used by people to mock the show, then yes, your opinion will be rightfully dismissed as just book snobbery. It was a shame reading places like westeros.org because even legitimate points or criticisms that I could agree with or at least sympathise with just got lost as it became an echo chamber for people complaining about the show and sniggering about "Stanley Barton" and "bad poosay". The thing is, descending into talking like that just makes it really easy for everyone else to dismiss your complaints as irrational hatred of the show even if you have valid concerns.

At some point you have to decide whether you want to try to communicate your view in a way that remains respectful enough of people with different opinions so they might actually listen, or if you just want to feel as though you have defended your "superior opinion" and insulted those that don't share it.

[cramx3]

^ well said

[Genowyn]

The reason for those names is that the show characters are completely different from the book characters. Carol is a relatively reasonable person, Cersei is not. Using something like Tv!Cersei does not, in my opinion, properly express the ocean of difference between the two characters.

But no you're right just being condescending no critical basis for it whatsoever -_-

[cramx3]

The reason for those names is that the show characters are completely different from the book characters. Carol is a relatively reasonable person, Cersei is not. Using something like Tv!Cersei does not, in my opinion, properly express the ocean of difference between the two characters.

This is fair criticism.  ANd I agree with this, show Cersei is much more tame than book Cersei.  For me, I just don't like the constant comparisons between book and show, they are seperate.  Season 1 was very close to being line for line like the book but they have gone seperate ways.  Most book readers would also agree the show completely changed Stannis' character.  Doesn't mean I dislike the show though.

[Genowyn]

I just feel bad for Martin that this show and not his books will be his legacy.

[cramx3]

I just feel bad for Martin that this show and not his books will be his legacy.

Why do you feel bad? He was a major part of the show (wrote episodes and was a consultant), he should be proud of it and how successful its been.  And the show takes nothing away from how good the books are, without the show, someone like myself would have never read the books.

I know GRRM has made statements that he wasn't happy at times with certain parts of the show, but I don't think it's that big of a deal, the show needs to make changes to make it work for TV and GRRM understands this better than most.

[Genowyn]

Well primarily because the books are feminist works and the show is absurdly misogynistic. Imagine if what people remembered about The Great Gatsby was the DiCaprio movie that totally missed the point of the book and instead left people with the oppoaite impression.

There is a difference between minor adaptational changes and completely reworking the meaning of a work because "Narratively it made sense because we wanted to do it".