I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.
I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I wonder what others think of this.
I would think most people would actually agree with this. MP's antics and stage presence were definitely an addition to the band. MM mostly goes by facial expressions really.
I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:
- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable
- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold. Makes the most difficult things seem effortless. DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship
Quote from: ReaPsTA on February 07, 2014, 02:00:23 PM
I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:
- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable
- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold. Makes the most difficult things seem effortless. DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship
Two points I completely agree with.
Quote from: ReaPsTA on February 07, 2014, 02:00:23 PM
I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:
- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable
- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold. Makes the most difficult things seem effortless. DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship
All of this.
I agree with the MP upstaging. And I noticed that JLB now seems to be 'the face' of DT. I thought this while watching The Looking Glass video. Theres loads of shots of him alone singing and I was thinking - with most bands theres normally the band of course, but the singer is at the forefront.
Quote from: Jinx on February 07, 2014, 02:17:27 PM
I agree with the MP upstaging. And I noticed that JLB now seems to be 'the face' of DT. I thought this while watching The Looking Glass video. Theres loads of shots of him alone singing and I was thinking - with most bands theres normally the band of course, but the singer is at the forefront.
I said when MP left was that the biggest winner in this was James.
I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe.
I think their charisma has improved without him (and they can move about freely without having to worry about getting spit on)
Of course I am aware that it was James who remarked that the band is more balanced now.
Quote from: Madman Shepherd on February 07, 2014, 02:32:44 PM
I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe.
DT is obviously my favorite band for many reasons but Reason #1 was watching MP perform live.
MP engaged the audience, improvised, and is a terrific showman. He didn't just play the drums. He performed.
I love watching the Santiago DVD. MP looks like a kid playing in his bedroom having a blast.
Quote from: TAC on February 07, 2014, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: Madman Shepherd on February 07, 2014, 02:32:44 PM
I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe.
DT is obviously my favorite band for many reasons but Reason #1 was watching MP perform live.
MP engaged the audience, improvised, and is a terrific showman. He didn't just play the drums. He performed.
I love watching the Santiago DVD. MP looks like a kid playing in his bedroom having a blast.
Please don't compare MP to Nicky Spaanjards... :hat
I would say that they have different performing styles on stage. Basically, MP's stage "presence" makes the viewer think that his drumming pieces are difficult even though he's playing some of his simpler stuff. MM, on the other hand, makes you feel that all his drum parts are easy, even though he's playing difficult parts.
MM's style, I think, basically plays to the more musically inclined because they would be the ones that would notice that he's actually playing a difficult part (like, "OMG, he's playing the intro to 6:00 on his left hand only!" or "I did not realize that the rolls in the closing of the fast portion of The Pursuit of Truth is one-handed only!"). Personally, I prefer MM because I would really rather let the music speak for itself.
I'd say MPs stage presence was probably the best thing about DT's performance last time I saw them live. Having watched Live at Luna Park it's certainly a completely different vibe, and I personally don't think James is much of a front man from a getting the crowd involved perspective, which was one of MPs greatest strengths. However I'm looking forward to seeing if JP, JR & JM shine a bit more with this "more balanced" DT this time around. I'm expecting a different vibe, and I'm interested to see if the live show is as good as it was when MP was still around. I suspect I'll be watching JP a lot more this time.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 07, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.
I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I wonder what others think of this.
I think what the band lost was a rock icon and that explains most of what people like you miss. There is no way to replace something like that. You have to fill it with something different.
Let me be clear, MP has very good stage presence. But people are blowing it way out of proportion as though he were the poster child for showmanship in all of heavy music. I believe that what people are missing is what I mentioned earlier: a well known icon who spent a long time cultivating his image with the fans.
MM has incredible stage presence, actually. First of all, you do not get a gig in Steve Vai's band if you do not possess stage presence. Second, it's been plain to see, since the very first time we saw him play with the band in the audition video, that he is an amazing performer that lets out tons of energy and enthusiasm in all the songs he plays. I don't really know what people are expecting him to do live that he has not done. Perhaps someone who keeps making the same complaint that you are can explain it to the rest of us who don't get it.
Based upon my personal experience attending two shows last tour, and watching footage from almost every other venue, he is putting forth a tremendous effort to execute his parts AND engage the audience. I think he's one of the better performers out there actually and does way more to
What
exactly did MP do that is MM is not besides standing up every now and then?
I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.
Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on February 07, 2014, 07:10:20 PM
I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.
I'm not saying to quantify it. I'm saying to show visual evidence-- specific instances in which MP displayed some sort of stage performance-esque behavior that MM is supposedly failing to replicate.
Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on February 07, 2014, 07:08:49 PM
Let me be clear, MP has very good stage presence. But people are blowing it way out of proportion as though he were the poster child for showmanship in all of heavy music. I believe that what people are missing is what I mentioned earlier: a well known icon who spent a long time cultivating his image with the fans.
Worded excellently. Never thought of it that way.
Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on February 07, 2014, 07:08:49 PM
What exactly did MP do that is MM is not besides standing up every now and then?
Spitting. There is a serious lack of Mangini spit.
I definitely agree on the MP upstaging James. It was kinda awkward at times.
Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on February 07, 2014, 07:10:20 PM
I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.
Ah, like the mysterious "MM has no groove" or "MP has more emotion in his drumming" arguments.
I don't those are mysterious, they're just opinion. Opinion I share, for the most part.
I like how different they are, and they both had to offer different things to DT's live performances.
To be honest, seeing DT once with both drummers, i might not be the best judge, i felt MP was speeding up things a bit, and the other guys were always trying to go where MP took them rhythmically. Of course, it was enjoyable that he was standing up sometimes, and trying to engage with the fans.
MM on the other hand, had me impressed with his power and dynamics, i felt like he would break the drums sometimes, he was hitting like a monster. Very steady tempos (thank the click tracks for that) but he had a lot of eye contact with the audience, smiling most of the time, and having fun, making one handed rolls while not being too serious about it, and i felt like he noticed all the different musician fans in the audience and making all types of funny faces when he noticed their confusion for playing things differently. It was a lot of fun.
I also felt like the other guys stepped up their stage presence after MP left, especially JP, although at times he looks like he is forcing it a bit.
So in conclusion, i love the difference between the two Mikes, and i appreciate what everyone has to offer.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 07, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I think MM would disagree with the notion that his own vocals are "not bad." :)
Obviously, you meant MP...
Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on February 07, 2014, 07:08:49 PM
I think what the band lost was a rock icon and that explains most of what people like you miss. There is no way to replace something like that. You have to fill it with something different.
Lot of truth here.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 07, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.
I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I wonder what others think of this.
You know, I think you're confusing charisma with "what DT used to be with MP". I feel the same way you do... to an extent. You can't really compare MP's performances of the songs he wrote/recorded/performed for years to MM's adaptation of that. You expect it to sound like it always has. But, MM's feel/style is totally different (stylistically more exact and mechanical). So, the way that the band sounds with and around him is different than you've been used to. The MP songs were written and performed to MP. However, when DT performs their new material, it's the way we're used to hearing them (with MM) and they sound killer. I and others here agree that the new songs sound the best on LALP. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I love the band with MM. I wouldn't want to see him leave to have MP back. The way I feel, with MP in other projects it gives me more music and shows, etc...
Mangini is amazing on drums as well so...
Quote from: nikatapi on February 08, 2014, 01:19:21 AM
i felt MP was speeding up things a bit, and the other guys were always trying to go where MP took them rhythmically.
Well, that's kinda the role of the drummer though. I think they lost something by going to click track (which is the reason they neither speed nor slow down these days).
To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)
But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.
MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.
Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE
Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
Quote from: rumborak on February 08, 2014, 10:44:43 AM
Well, that's kinda the role of the drummer though. I think they lost something by going to click track (which is the reason they neither speed nor slow down these days).
I agree with you, but i think that MP sometimes overdid it, changing the tempos during a song, which made me feel weird sometimes. Like speeding up a section, and then returning to normal tempo, which kinda broke the feeling for me.
Also, JP did some mistakes when things were played faster than recorded, and maybe some riffs lost their weight because the were meant to be played a little slower.
I'm not sure if i'm making my point clear, this is more of a personal feeling i got listening to bootlegs.
I had no hidden agenda when I posted this. It wasn't a way of starting a 'which one do you prefer'. However, if someone new comes in and replaces a guy who was in from the get go then you can't pretend it's business as usual.
I posted this because I didn't feel this angle had been covered - please bear in mind I don't see all the posts so perhaps I am wrong here.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 09, 2014, 03:41:17 AM
I posted this because I didn't feel this angle had been covered - please bear in mind I don't see all the posts so perhaps I am wrong here.
It's been covered, ever since they went on tour for the last album. People noticed the change in the live presentation instantly.
Quote from: Raise the Drum on February 08, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)
But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.
MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.
Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE
Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
This :tup
Quote from: Raise the Drum on February 08, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)
But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.
MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.
Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE
Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
You should probably factor in that this looks to be part of a clinic. Pacing yourself for a 3 hour drum performance is quite different. Also he was a younger man. I think he's in his mid-50s now.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 07, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.
I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I wonder what others think of this.
>:( :rollin
Now every member is prominent with equal amount of presence or whatever you want to call it & i like the whole idea of teamwork.
Fact: MP had more presence on the stage or whatever you want to call it.
DT has become more decent in charisma dept too.
Quote from: Raise the Drum on February 08, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
...MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.
Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE
Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
Exactly this....MM is still learning, you can see it on his face at times that he still has to really concentrate at certain moments to play the parts. MP is known for having an amazing musical memory and had been playing some of the DT songs for years and years, making them second nature and allowing him more freedom to interact with the crowd, etc...
You can tell this is the case by watching MM play songs off of ADTOE or DT12, songs that he wrote the parts to and recorded and has played a lot. He seems more free to interact with the crowd, change up fills here and there, and be overall more charismatic because he doesn't have to focus as much on executing parts.
I don't know, I disagree. I think a lot of it just stems from him being buried under all that equipment. I was just watching this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthXp1dwNOo#t=80), and you just see Marco's limbs flying away, and that makes for a much more engaging sight.
Quote from: mikeyd23 on February 10, 2014, 07:08:12 AM
Quote from: Raise the Drum on February 08, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
...MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.
Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE
Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
Exactly this....MM is still learning, you can see it on his face at times that he still has to really concentrate at certain moments to play the parts. MP is known for having an amazing musical memory and had been playing some of the DT songs for years and years, making them second nature and allowing him more freedom to interact with the crowd, etc...
You can tell this is the case by watching MM play songs off of ADTOE or DT12, songs that he wrote the parts to and recorded and has played a lot. He seems more free to interact with the crowd, change up fills here and there, and be overall more charismatic because he doesn't have to focus as much on executing parts.
Also, remember that before he auditioned they more or less told him that what they were looking for is someone playing the parts exactly as they are. So perhaps he took that to heart with the whole learning process...
Quote from: slycordinator on February 10, 2014, 04:03:07 PMAlso, remember that before he auditioned they more or less told him that what they were looking for is someone playing the parts exactly as they are.
No they did not. I think you are misremembering.
Quote from: rumborak on February 10, 2014, 11:46:44 AM
I don't know, I disagree. I think a lot of it just stems from him being buried under all that equipment. I was just watching this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthXp1dwNOo#t=80), and you just see Marco's limbs flying away, and that makes for a much more engaging sight.
You didn't see MM's limbs flying away during his solo on the ADToE tour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wou5tOt2vp8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wou5tOt2vp8)
Lol It remains a mystery what people actually want from the guy with regard to this topic.
Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on February 10, 2014, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: rumborak on February 10, 2014, 11:46:44 AM
I don't know, I disagree. I think a lot of it just stems from him being buried under all that equipment. I was just watching this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthXp1dwNOo#t=80), and you just see Marco's limbs flying away, and that makes for a much more engaging sight.
You didn't see MM's limbs flying away during his solo on the ADToE tour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wou5tOt2vp8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wou5tOt2vp8)
Lol It remains a mystery what people actually want from the guy with regard to this topic.
I think they actually want him to leave. And we will not run out of threads like this this until MM leaves DT. (and yes, MM fans and DT fans who like MM, I have observed, never start these discussions)
Quote from: bosk1 on February 10, 2014, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: slycordinator on February 10, 2014, 04:03:07 PMAlso, remember that before he auditioned they more or less told him that what they were looking for is someone playing the parts exactly as they are.
No they did not. I think you are misremembering.
I certainly remember it mentioned in the documentary that they sort of disliked the changes that were made in the playing to the songs by some of the drummers, said (Jordan, specifically) that the fans expected things played a certain way (which really implies that they as a band wanted that), and either in the doc or in an interview stated that MM got into contact with the band prior to auditions to ask what they were looking for and was told that they wanted it stuck to the recording.
Quote from: slycordinator on February 10, 2014, 05:12:54 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on February 10, 2014, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: slycordinator on February 10, 2014, 04:03:07 PMAlso, remember that before he auditioned they more or less told him that what they were looking for is someone playing the parts exactly as they are.
No they did not. I think you are misremembering.
I certainly remember it mentioned in the documentary that they sort of disliked the changes that were made in the playing to the songs by some of the drummers, said (Jordan, specifically) that the fans expected things played a certain way (which really implies that they as a band wanted that), and either in the doc or in an interview stated that MM got into contact with the band prior to auditions to ask what they were looking for and was told that they wanted it stuck to the recording.
Yes, that is correct. They
did want the renditions to be true to the originals, without too much deviation, but that is not the same as "playing the parts
exactly as they are." Mangini interpreted the parts during the audition rather than playing them exactly note for note and hit for hit. Jordan and John even say so during the documentary. But he did not stray too far. Bottom line is, they expected (and, I am sure,
wanted) some degree of interpretation. They just didn't want it to go too far afield. And I suspect that the line of what is "too far" was entirely subjective and not easy to put into words. It seemed like Thomas and Virgil, for example, went just a bit farther than what the band were comfortable with. Mike and Marco interpreted the parts, but did so within a framework that the band felt comfortable. But I don't think
any of the seven drummers came in and tried to mimic the parts
exactly.
As for the last sentence, I'm not sure where you got that from, so it's hard to comment on it.
I never really saw how hamming it up, standing up and hitting the crashes on occasion qualified as stage presence myself. MP sure THOUGHT he was one of the faces of the band, but he always came off to me like the class clown in the back of a photo of the entire class rather than the center of attention.
It wasn't "hamming it up", and it was definitely a good stage presence. :tup
Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2014, 05:48:21 PM
It wasn't "hamming it up", and it was definitely a good stage presence. :tup
It's all opinion mate.
MM is propably far better drummer than MP, but I really have to go with MP as my favourite.
It is because of his stage presence and his dedication to DT !
I don't have anything against MM and I'm happy that DT is happy with their Drummer decision! I just always thought that MP lived and breathed Dream Theater, and was irreplaceable.
... And it doesn't really help that ADTOE and DT12 are propably one of my least liked DT albums. It is not MM's fault of course.. But I've been starting to lose interest ( But not enough to stay away from DTF :D)
Quote from: bosk1 on February 10, 2014, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: slycordinator on February 10, 2014, 04:03:07 PMAlso, remember that before he auditioned they more or less told him that what they were looking for is someone playing the parts exactly as they are.
No they did not. I think you are misremembering.
He's not, I saw yesterday an interview of the ADTOE tour where Petrucci said something along the lines that he wanted the parts to be played as recorded, I can't seem to find the link as I was hopping from link to link on YouTube and sort of bumped with the interview :-[. The interviewer was a blonde woman from a music channel I think, but that's all I can remember :lol. I will try to find it.
As for the stage presence, I think, at least on the DVDs(I haven't seen that much footage on bootlegs) MP clearly has something different for me, he's always engaging the audience, playing with the sticks and things like that, but I also think it's understandable that MM doesn't play that way. It's different when you've been a band member and kind of the PR of the band to be confident enough to pull those kind of antics, MM is "the new guy" so you can't expect, even if he had that in him, to do the same.
All in all, I think as far as stage presence goes MM is perfect the way he is, just because he's not MP it doesn't mean he's not awesome in his own way, and I think the difference between the two of them is simply the fact that they are two different persons and nothing else. I like them both and I don't think one is better than the other, even on the technical side, they're just different and that's it.
Found it ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpU4t_N2SM
At the 4:10 mark, the interviewer asks "do want (the drummer) to put their own twist to music" and JP says "it's important that the parts are played as recorded".
Quote from: Invisible on February 11, 2014, 12:08:59 AM
Found it ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpU4t_N2SM
At the 4:10 mark, the interviewer asks "do want (the drummer) to put their own twist to music" and JP says "it's important that the parts are played as recorded".
JP is pretty clear in that video. No ifs and buts.
Quote from: Invisible on February 11, 2014, 12:08:59 AM
Found it ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpU4t_N2SM
At the 4:10 mark, the interviewer asks "do want (the drummer) to put their own twist to music" and JP says "it's important that the parts are played as recorded".
That is certainly stronger language than I have heard him use before. But that still isn't the same as saying they wanted the parts played "exactly" the same as Portnoy played them. If you listen to the rest of his answer, he goes on to say that Mangini has been able to add his own flair to the songs, but does so
without majorly changing the feel of the songs. This latter part is the key. There is some freedom to add Mangini's own style, but not at the expense of the songs having a different feel to them. This is consistent with what John and Jordan actually say during the documentary where they say that they
liked that Mangini emphasized different things in his parts based on him listening to what each of the other musicians were actually doing.
I didn't say that they told him to pay it exactly as written/recorded. I said that he was more or less told this. You do realize that more or less is an idiom that means "to a certain extent", right?
For me the perceived "missing" dynamic is that MM's drums arent nearly as loud in the set as MP's were. MP was LOUD and right up there with JP. When I watch the latest dvd, I can tell that JP's guitar is too loud in the mix and the drums arent nearly loud enough. MP's drum and JP's guitar were front and center. Now its just JP, but you can finally here the other guys for a change LOL. I kinda prefer that.
I think the other thing that I notice (IN MY OPINION) is that MM's drums dont sound as nice. The cymbals sound kinda "cheap" even though Im sure they are high quality. Then again, maybe they just arent loud enough. LOL
MM is a monster player. Im glad he is in DT.
Quote from: bosk1 on February 11, 2014, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: Invisible on February 11, 2014, 12:08:59 AM
Found it ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpU4t_N2SM
At the 4:10 mark, the interviewer asks "do want (the drummer) to put their own twist to music" and JP says "it's important that the parts are played as recorded".
That is certainly stronger language than I have heard him use before. But that still isn't the same as saying they wanted the parts played "exactly" the same as Portnoy played them. If you listen to the rest of his answer, he goes on to say that Mangini has been able to add his own flair to the songs, but does so without majorly changing the feel of the songs. This latter part is the key. There is some freedom to add Mangini's own style, but not at the expense of the songs having a different feel to them. This is consistent with what John and Jordan actually say during the documentary where they say that they liked that Mangini emphasized different things in his parts based on him listening to what each of the other musicians were actually doing.
I don't think anyone said "exactly", but I think the band expect MM to play as close as possible, I just listened to The Great Debate live on the 2011 tour from the Christmas release, with MM on the drums and they aren't exactly the same, but, as you said, they respect the feel of the song. None of the guys play their instruments or sing
exactly as recorded(they are humans after all), so I doubt they expect MM to do so.
Listening to DT12 today for the third time(kind of funny how it went from "this sucks" to "Meh" to "this is really good!" with each listen :lol), and I kind of like this new drum sound, sometimes I felt with MP they were
a bit too loud(on the other hand, it was nice to have a band that doesn't bury them in the mix like the ones I used to listen back then). All in all, I think this album sounds fine, I like the infamous snare and I can hear Mangini very well without being in my face like in the MP days. A little less JP and a little more JR and JM and it would be perfect imho.
Quote from: tarkusman on February 07, 2014, 01:42:35 PM
I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.
I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.
I wonder what others think of this.
I agree 100%, James is trying harder these days but still comes across as a cold fish. John Myung is John Myung, Jordan is Jordan , and John Petrucci even seem less animated. MM seems so focused on his drum parts he does not have time to fuck around besides the occasion mount wide open look. What can I say the band had changed for good and lost their front man.