Not MP v MM again I hear you say. This is different, I hope

[tarkusman]

I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.

I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.

I wonder what others think of this.

[rumborak]

I would think most people would actually agree with this. MP's antics and stage presence were definitely an addition to the band. MM mostly goes by facial expressions really.

[ReaPsTA]

I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:

- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable

- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold.  Makes the most difficult things seem effortless.  DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship

[TAC]

I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:

- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable

- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold.  Makes the most difficult things seem effortless.  DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship

Two points I completely agree with.

[chaotic_ripper]

I don't disagree, but have two rebuttals:

- The way MP was seemingly trying to upstage JLB was really uncomfortable

- Having seen MM play live, I can assure you it's a sight to behold.  Makes the most difficult things seem effortless.  DT, to me, is first and foremost about the songs and musicianship

All of this.

[Jinx]

I agree with the MP upstaging. And I noticed that JLB now seems to be 'the face' of DT. I thought this while watching The Looking Glass video. Theres loads of shots of him alone singing and I was thinking - with most bands theres normally the band of course, but the singer is at the forefront.

[TAC]

I agree with the MP upstaging. And I noticed that JLB now seems to be 'the face' of DT. I thought this while watching The Looking Glass video. Theres loads of shots of him alone singing and I was thinking - with most bands theres normally the band of course, but the singer is at the forefront.

I said when MP left was that the biggest winner in this was James.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe. 

I think their charisma has improved without him (and they can move about freely without having to worry about getting spit on)

[tarkusman]

Of course I am aware that it was James who remarked that the band is more balanced now.

[TAC]

I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe. 

DT is obviously my favorite band for many reasons but Reason #1 was watching MP perform live.
MP engaged the audience, improvised, and is a terrific showman. He didn't just play the drums. He performed.

I love watching the Santiago DVD. MP looks like a kid playing in his bedroom having a blast.

[Dirty30]

I don't understand why people think MP has such great stage presence because he stands up occasionally, waves his hands, spits, and will yell "Step right up (city that they are playing in)" when they perform Let Me Breathe. 

DT is obviously my favorite band for many reasons but Reason #1 was watching MP perform live.
MP engaged the audience, improvised, and is a terrific showman. He didn't just play the drums. He performed.

I love watching the Santiago DVD. MP looks like a kid playing in his bedroom having a blast.

Please don't compare MP to Nicky Spaanjards...   

[erwinrafael]

I would say that they have different performing styles on stage. Basically, MP's stage "presence" makes the viewer think that his drumming pieces are difficult even though he's playing some of his simpler stuff. MM, on the other hand, makes you feel that all his drum parts are easy, even though he's playing difficult parts.

MM's style, I think, basically plays to the more musically inclined because they would be the ones that would notice that he's actually playing a difficult part (like, "OMG, he's playing the intro to 6:00 on his left hand only!" or "I did not realize that the rolls in the closing of the fast portion of The Pursuit of Truth is one-handed only!"). Personally, I prefer MM because I would really rather let the music speak for itself.

[Bargey]

I'd say MPs stage presence was probably the best thing about DT's performance last time I saw them live. Having watched Live at Luna Park it's certainly a completely different vibe, and I personally don't think James is much of a front man from a getting the crowd involved perspective, which was one of MPs greatest strengths. However I'm looking forward to seeing if JP, JR & JM shine a bit more with this "more balanced" DT this time around. I'm expecting a different vibe, and I'm interested to see if the live show is as good as it was when MP was still around. I suspect I'll be watching JP a lot more this time.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.

I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.

I wonder what others think of this.

I think what the band lost was a rock icon and that explains most of what people like you miss. There is no way to replace something like that. You have to fill it with something different.

Let me be clear, MP has very good stage presence. But people are blowing it way out of proportion as though he were the poster child for showmanship in all of heavy music. I believe that what people are missing is what I mentioned earlier: a well known icon who spent a long time cultivating his image with the fans.

MM has incredible stage presence, actually. First of all, you do not get a gig in Steve Vai's band if you do not possess stage presence. Second, it's been plain to see, since the very first time we saw him play with the band in the audition video, that he is an amazing performer that lets out tons of energy and enthusiasm in all the songs he plays. I don't really know what people are expecting him to do live that he has not done. Perhaps someone who keeps making the same complaint that you are can explain it to the rest of us who don't get it.

Based upon my personal experience attending two shows last tour, and watching footage from almost every other venue, he is putting forth a tremendous effort to execute his parts AND engage the audience. I think he's one of the better performers out there actually and does way more to

What exactly did MP do that is MM is not besides standing up every now and then?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.

I'm not saying to quantify it. I'm saying to show visual evidence-- specific instances in which MP displayed some sort of stage performance-esque behavior that MM is supposedly failing to replicate.

[Madman Shepherd]

Let me be clear, MP has very good stage presence. But people are blowing it way out of proportion as though he were the poster child for showmanship in all of heavy music. I believe that what people are missing is what I mentioned earlier: a well known icon who spent a long time cultivating his image with the fans.

Worded excellently.  Never thought of it that way. 

What exactly did MP do that is MM is not besides standing up every now and then?

Spitting.  There is a serious lack of Mangini spit. 

[rumborak]

I definitely agree on the MP upstaging James. It was kinda awkward at times.

[erwinrafael]

I don't think stage presence can be quantified like that, it's just kind of a "you know it when you see it" kind of thing.

Ah, like the mysterious "MM has no groove" or "MP has more emotion in his drumming" arguments.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't those are mysterious, they're just opinion. Opinion I share, for the most part.

[nikatapi]

I like how different they are, and they both had to offer different things to DT's live performances.
To be honest, seeing DT once with both drummers, i might not be the best judge, i felt MP was speeding up things a bit, and the other guys were always trying to go where MP took them rhythmically. Of course, it was enjoyable that he was standing up sometimes, and trying to engage with the fans.

MM on the other hand, had me impressed with his power and dynamics, i felt like he would break the drums sometimes, he was hitting like a monster. Very steady tempos (thank the click tracks for that) but he had a lot of eye contact with the audience, smiling most of the time, and having fun, making one handed rolls while not being too serious about it, and i felt like he noticed all the different musician fans in the audience and making all types of funny faces when he noticed their confusion for playing things differently. It was a lot of fun.

I also felt like the other guys stepped up their stage presence after MP left, especially JP, although at times he looks like he is forcing it a bit.

So in conclusion, i love the difference between the two Mikes, and i appreciate what everyone has to offer.

[slycordinator]

MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.

I think MM would disagree with the notion that his own vocals are "not bad."

Obviously, you meant MP...

[hefdaddy42]

I think what the band lost was a rock icon and that explains most of what people like you miss. There is no way to replace something like that. You have to fill it with something different.

Lot of truth here.

[tofee35]

I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.

I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.

I wonder what others think of this.

You know, I think you're confusing charisma with "what DT used to be with MP". I feel the same way you do... to an extent. You can't really compare MP's performances of the songs he wrote/recorded/performed for years to MM's adaptation of that. You expect it to sound like it always has. But, MM's feel/style is totally different (stylistically more exact and mechanical). So, the way that the band sounds with and around him is different than you've been used to. The MP songs were written and performed to MP. However, when DT performs their new material, it's the way we're used to hearing them (with MM) and they sound killer. I and others here agree that the new songs sound the best on LALP. I don't think that's a coincidence. 

[Tick]

I love the band with MM. I wouldn't want to see him leave to have MP back. The way I feel, with MP in other projects it gives me more music and shows, etc...
Mangini is amazing on drums as well so...

[rumborak]

i felt MP was speeding up things a bit, and the other guys were always trying to go where MP took them rhythmically.

Well, that's kinda the role of the drummer though. I think they lost something by going to click track (which is the reason they neither speed nor slow down these days).

[Raise the Drum]

To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)

But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.

MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.

Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE

Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.
 

[nikatapi]

Well, that's kinda the role of the drummer though. I think they lost something by going to click track (which is the reason they neither speed nor slow down these days).

I agree with you, but i think that MP sometimes overdid it, changing the tempos during a song, which made me feel weird sometimes. Like speeding up a section, and then returning to normal tempo, which kinda broke the feeling for me.
Also, JP did some mistakes when things were played faster than recorded, and maybe some riffs lost their weight because the were meant to be played a little slower.

I'm not sure if i'm making my point clear, this is more of a personal feeling i got listening to bootlegs.

[tarkusman]

I had no hidden agenda when I posted this. It wasn't a way of starting a 'which one do you prefer'. However, if someone new comes in and replaces a guy who was in from the get go then you can't pretend it's business as usual.

I posted this because I didn't feel this angle had been covered - please bear in mind I don't see all the posts so perhaps I am wrong here.

[hefdaddy42]

I posted this because I didn't feel this angle had been covered - please bear in mind I don't see all the posts so perhaps I am wrong here.

It's been covered, ever since they went on tour for the last album.  People noticed the change in the live presentation instantly.

[Red_Queen]

To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)

But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.

MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.

Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE

Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.

This 

[Tis BOOLsheet]

To me, the main reason of the difference between MP and MM stage presence is their way of playing drums. (Soulish and Technical)

But, there's something on my mind that tells me that maybe the difference of their stage presence has to do with the way they feel on stage with the music they're playing.

MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.

Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE

Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.

You should probably factor in that this looks to be part of a clinic. Pacing yourself for a 3 hour drum performance is quite different. Also he was a younger man. I think he's in his mid-50s now.

[haceeb]

I am not going to go into the drumming pros and cons as this has been done to death, but this is something I felt in watching the new dvd.

I feel that the band has lost a lot in the charisma dept. MM had loads of this or stage presence or whatever you want to call it. He really was the best performer in the band in my opinion - and his backing vocals were not bad either.

I wonder what others think of this.

Now every member is prominent with equal amount of presence or whatever you want to call it & i like the whole idea of teamwork.
Fact: MP had more presence on the stage or whatever you want to call it.
DT has become more decent in charisma dept too.

[mikeyd23]

...MP had about 20 years of playing with DT, he knew the songs, maybe from time to time he had to remember some songs.
And on the other side, all that MM has been doing these ~3 years is learning, learning and learning.

Here you can see him more comfortable (IMO). And i think that is because he was more acquainted with the song. (Maybe, is a theory).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-8j9zhdOE

Maybe is just a matter of time for him to feel more comfortable playing DT.

Exactly this....MM is still learning, you can see it on his face at times that he still has to really concentrate at certain moments to play the parts.  MP is known for having an amazing musical memory and had been playing some of the DT songs for years and years, making them second nature and allowing him more freedom to interact with the crowd, etc...

You can tell this is the case by watching MM play songs off of ADTOE or DT12, songs that he wrote the parts to and recorded and has played a lot.  He seems more free to interact with the crowd, change up fills here and there, and be overall more charismatic because he doesn't have to focus as much on executing parts.

[rumborak]

I don't know, I disagree. I think a lot of it just stems from him being buried under all that equipment. I was just watching this video, and you just see Marco's limbs flying away, and that makes for a much more engaging sight.