A Broken Man - Out December 3rd

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

After listening to it several times, here are my thoughts so far on "A Broken Man"...

—Whereas "Night Terror" sounds like it could be a leftover track from the Black Clouds sessions, "A Broken Man" sounds like it could be a leftover track from the View sessions. This isn't a bad thing.

—The whole intro, leading all the way up to the vocals, is cool, and evokes cosmic imagery for me (space and shit), even though it's not what it's about, lyrically. It just has that mysterious larger than life extraterrestrial vibe to it, at least, for me.

—Part starting at 2:52 reminds me of Tool.

—The chorus is really quite beautiful, yet haunting in a way. Really like it.

—The overall mix is...a little strange. The drum sound doesn't have that typical Portnoy vibe to it, and is kinda similar to the drum sound they were achieving with Mangini, especially on View. The vocals sound a little too processed for my liking. Guitars are a little muted, but I like being able to hear the bass clearly. Overall, it's not the way I would've mixed it, but it's certainly not bad.

—As much as I like Portnoy's drumming, minus the fact that he uses a lot of the same fills over and over, I can't help but miss Mangini on this one, and feel like this track in particular really could've benefited from Mangini's style, and much more diverse palette. Not a knock against Portnoy, as I like both drummers very much.

—Really like and enjoy the instrumental section, and I like that Jordan has been using more organ sounds. That said, I am growing weary of his lead patch. Petrucci's lead sound has evolved over the years, and I wish Jordan's would too. I do like that they stayed away from the trading solos and unison on this one, as that format has been done to death, however I'm sure other songs on the album will resort to it.

—As much as I love the bluesy section and Petrucci's solo on its own, and can tell he was channeling his inner Steve Morse (it's very Dixie Dregs-ish), it totally sticks out like a sore thumb. The transition both in and out of that section just doesn't flow or make sense, not to mention the jolly feel good upbeat vibe doesn't mesh well with the dark subject matter of the tune.

—Lyrically, this subject matter is starting to feel a bit old, since we have "The Enemy Inside", "Panic Attack", "War Inside My Head", etc.

I think overall, I prefer "Night Terror", but not by much. Neither track has really blown me away or been that memorable, however 40 years into their career, I think it's safe to assume they don't have another Six Degrees up their sleeves. I think the days of them releasing something totally different and experimental (stylistically, compositionally, sonically) are probably gone, especially since they got such a negative reaction with The Astonishing. So, from here on out, I'd assume most of what they release will play it pretty safe. Hopefully I'm wrong, as I know lots of fans are ready for them to shake things up a bit, but honestly at this point I'm just grateful they're still making music.

Welcome to the Forums!

[jadiggerdt]

This will be a DT record that Portnoy wants DT to play. Mostly metal with prog elements.TOT meets Systematic Chaos throughout the whole album, but I'm looking forward to it.

[Northern Lion]

After listening to A Broken Man a bunch of times, I've got to say that chorus has started to really grab me.  Initially I didn't think the vocal melody was all that strong (which didn't bother me), but I am changing my opinion on that.

And the more I listen to it the more musically interesting I find it.  What a killer song!

[Zydar]

Is there a difference in the mixes between the Youtube version and the Spotify/Tidal versions? I don't remember it being the case with Night Terror or not. 

[Northern Lion]

I've only listened to the YT version, so I'm not sure.

[mrpmrpmrpmrp]

Hollllleeeeeeyyy schnickies!

I cranked these two songs in a row in my car and had an out of body experience! Just absolutely peak DT in every single way. I think this is an honest portrayal of who they are right now in every way and it's just relentlessly amazing and detailed and powerful.

This album is going to be an album of creative DT epics and I am so here for it. Like this DT fans dream come true.

My favorite part about this particular track is the dynamic and stylistic changes they use really paint the mood and a story.

THIS CROSS IS MINE TO BEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!

[Zydar]

Looks like this song is very polarising. It's either "Meh, DT by numbers" or "Holy shit, this is the best thing in the history of music". 

[Adami]

Listened to the song again. Just as boring. Not at all offensive. Just bland.

[mrpmrpmrpmrp]

IMO if you meh listen again as loud as possible, I was meh at 1st and now am really digging this one, if you feel it loud to appreciate how much energy is being produced here it might change your mind.

*also it helps to buy into the narrative of the story a lot.

[Thoughtspart3]

Like many of you I had little emotional reaction on my first two listens. That was not the case with NT. It is interesting that some are digging it right away. Is it just what some of us were hoping for and having that either fulfilled or not fulfilled? Shredding prog-metal versus more melodic emotional prog-metal (for lack of a better term)? 

[Adami]

IMO if you meh listen again as loud as possible, I was meh at 1st and now am really digging this one, if you feel it loud to appreciate how much energy is being produced here it might change your mind.

*also it helps to buy into the narrative of the story a lot.

Nah. I'm good. I listened to it loud enough both times with great ear buds. It sounds how it sounds.

[gborland]

I've listened to it three times now, and I don't want to listen to it again. It did nothing for me, and I'm scared that any more listens will make me sad and spoil my anticipation for the album.

[Setlist Scotty]

Catching up....

I have no idea why anyone would expect a sound or writing style that was massively different than what has happened on recent DT albums.  The guys that actually write all the notes and chords and riffs are still the same guys.  I know MP has typically had a large input on how songs turn out, but that was also when he was a producer.  And, more importantly, he isn't the riffer or composer.

Actually MP has a large input in the writing and arranging of the songs, not just as a producer. And he may not be a primary source of riffs, but he is strongly involved in steering the direction of the songwriting, and he does occasionally provide riffs and other melodic ideas, too. That said, that was in the past, and the dynamic may be different than back then. While I don't know one way or the other, I tend to believe that while there may be some difference, especially with MP being more careful than before - being the "new" guy - from what JP has said in interviews, I tend to believe that MP has returned to have a large influence on the songwriting/arranging just as he previously did, although maybe not to quite the same degree.
 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse with the AI discussion, I just want there to be some record on the internet that some people don't like it

You're all right that they've accepted crap from Hugh Syme. Imagine if this was a new artist called Sugh Hyme and his calling card is that he is even crappier than Hugh Syme and he works for free. Suddenly everyone in the metal world is working with Sugh Hyme, saying it's because "they really like the results and they have so much fun working with him" and they are shocked and appalled that we could be so biased against Sugh Hyme just because it's Sugh Hyme.

I dunno. Someone posted these AI generated images, and I think some of them - particularly the third one (minus the type of course) - is better than Hugh's image.




 
 

You really think the band made this.

Mainly all videos and singles are made by the record company. The band is just glad they get a song to promote.

I believe it was created by Wayne Joyner, who was AFAIK commissioned to do all of DT's visuals for their old songs on the current tour as well as for the new album. If true, no, "the band" didn't make it, but they were behind it and approved it. Whether they went through it with a fine-tooth comb or not is up for debate, but if it wasn't MP approving it, then probably not.
 
 

The opening guitar sequence (first 40 seconds) is mostly flatted-fifth chords that create that off-balance/dissonant sound. 

A good example of the exchange between fifth and flatted-fifth chords is the opening to Strange Deja Vu.  Although I should probably defer to others with more musical expertise.

Personally I love the intro - makes me think of the band Oceansize, although I can't put my finger on what song(s). Will have to relisten to SDVu to hear a comparison, but off the top of my memory, I don't remember it sounding remotely like what I hear in the intro of ABM.
 
 

Like many of you I had little emotional reaction on my first two listens. That was not the case with NT. It is interesting that some are digging it right away. Is it just what some of us were hoping for and having that either fulfilled or not fulfilled? Shredding prog-metal versus more melodic emotional prog-metal (for lack of a better term)?

Funny - my reaction is the opposite. While NT is OK, it doesn't grab me as being an upper tier song that will make my top 10 or even top 25 list. OTOH, from my first listen to ABM, it grabbed me right away. The only thing I still have a hard time with is the guitar solo and underlying instrumental part with it - it's great in its own right, but doesn't fit the rest of the song. IMO, it should be in a different, more appropriate song, just the same as the Zappa section in Beyond This Life should be elsewhere. But like BTL, I'm sure over time I'll get more used to that guitar solo in ABM.

[Dedalus]

He is married and happy now

It seems contradictory to me.

I'm not referring to any one poster, I may not even be referring to any poster HERE, but I'm just going to leave this out there:

I love to hear what people think and all, and it's an interesting exercise to see how certain art impacts certain people, but man, oh, man, there are a LOT of people that do NOT recognize that they don't know everything and that their opinions are like the spores of a dandelion floating in a stiff, summer breeze. If a song, a book, a movie, comes out from an established artist with a solid and consistent track record - and I think we can assume that 18 albums (counting the doubles twice) and 40 years of continuous touring would qualify as an "established artist" with a "consistent track record" - that doesn't move YOU, the problem is likely YOU, not the player(s), the drummer, the mix, the singer, the producer, the lack of a producer, the artist, the cover, the use of technology... I mean not ALWAYS, but most often, and even when there is an exception, only time will tell if it's a universal phenomenon.  Within three days of release?  Any of the criticisms are on the LISTENER until proven otherwise, IMO.  "YOU DON'T LIKE IT", not "THE BAND HAS FAILED"; there is a difference. One listener not liking The Beatles does not make them any less the most influential band in rock history.

But it's always a personal matter.

Why the hell do we need to remind those who complain that it's their problem, when those who liked it also liked it for their own reasons?

If it's too early to criticize, it's also too early to praise. Maybe we should stop posting and stare into the void.

[dparrott]

I love it, especially the solos!!!

[hunnus2000]

I hear a lot of The Alien with the opening.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Personally I love the intro - makes me think of the band Oceansize, although I can't put my finger on what song(s). Will have to relisten to SDVu to hear a comparison, but off the top of my memory, I don't remember it sounding remotely like what I hear in the intro of ABM.
 

Scotty, someone asked what a flatted fifth sounds like, so I was giving an example of a fifth chord next to its flatted fifth companion, to which Strange Deja Vu and Voices are fine examples.  I agree, Broken Man does not sound like Strange Deja Vu.  But it uses the flatted fifth motif to such a degree that I'm thinking its time to retire it for a while.

EDIT:  A parallel argument for my reasoning would be when Kirk Hammett entered that phase where he was leaning way too heavily on dousing his solos with wah-wah.  Gone were the tasty nuggets of wah.  Seems to me that flatted fifth chords are quickly becoming a safe space for JP's riffing.  I love 'em when they are not so commonplace. 

[Setlist Scotty]

Scotty, someone asked what a flatted fifth sounds like, so I was giving an example of a fifth chord next to its flatted fifth companion, to which Strange Deja Vu and Voices are fine examples.  I agree, Broken Man does not sound like Strange Deja Vu.  But it uses the flatted fifth motif to such a degree that I'm thinking its time to retire it for a while.

EDIT:  A parallel argument for my reasoning would be when Kirk Hammett entered that phase where he was leaning way too heavily on dousing his solos with wah-wah.  Gone were the tasty nuggets of wah.  Seems to me that flatted fifth chords are quickly becoming a safe space for JP's riffing.  I love 'em when they are not so commonplace. 

For the non-musician (me) can you give me time-stamps of where it's happening in SDVu and Voices, just so I can educate myself? And since you say it seems to be something JP is becoming reliant on, then are there a lot of other more recent examples that you can also cite? Not doubting, but if the only ones you come up with are from 1999 and 1994 (I doubt they are), that's hardly common place like Kirk's wah wah abuse.

[RaiseTheKnife]

The opening seconds of Strange Deja Vu, or when the guitar kicks in on Voices. 

To be clear, I'm not saying its as commonplace as Kirk's wah, but more of a creative "comfort food" for JP in his riffs.  As in, when in doubt, just flat the fifth.

Here are some recent timestamped examples:

Distant Over Time
Paralyzed pre-choruses (1:15)
Fall Into the Light verses (1:20)
Room 137 Choruses (:42)
S2N (1:44)
At Wit's End Verse and Chorus (1:21 and 1:43)
Pale Blue Dot (5:54)

View From the Top
The Alien chorus (2:50 and 2:55)
Invisible Monster throughout (:11 and :22 and :26 and :37 and 1:36 and 1:52, etc.)
Sleeping Giant opening riff is a play on the motif (:25)
View from the Top (8:55 and 15:27)

Parasomnia
Night Terror - play on the motif (1:31 throughout verses) (5:08 2nd and 3rd chorus)
A Broken Man - (:08 throughout intro)

Don't get me wrong, there a moments when these chords are a highlight for me (Sacrificed Sons chorus and Just Let Me Breathe chorus), but given their prominence in the most 2 recent DT tracks I feel like I need a flatted fifth diet.

[MoraWintersoul]

I dunno. Someone posted these AI generated images, and I think some of them - particularly the third one (minus the type of course) - is better than Hugh's image.

The third image in particular has all those Hugh Syme booboos except more than he has ever done before. Smudges in the windows are just smudges in the artwork, there's some objects in front of the windows that don't look like real objects (you know at least Hugh would fly in a nice recognizable vanity mirror there he he), the beams in the floor for some reason just stop, the pillows don't look like any pillows you can get in the store, the construction of the roof looks a bit off and her left hand is a monstrosity. This is just what I can gather from one glance at the image and I have 0 training or school in anything visual art-related.

Also, what is supposed to be the point of the image? What is scary about it? She is turned towards the window - why are we supposed to look in that direction? At least Hugh Syme put a shadow man in his image!

I think people are just impressed with the fact that ways exist to generate the image so no one is looking at them that closely, but none of them are even better than Hugh Syme on his laziest day, hence there's no reason to use them as of now except you can do it yourself and you don't have to pay anyone.

[javidt]

I like the Rudess solo. The guitar solo is great but really out of place.

The rest of the song is as boring as Night Terror. I may prefer this new single, but I still don't like it.

It's pretty frustrating, it's the first time since I became a fan in 2000 that I'm not eager to listen to the full album.

I may have get used to the dinamycs that Mangini added to the songs and I'm finding very difficult to enjoy the Portnoy drumming. I find it uninspired and repetitive. It's strange because I still love the Honor Thy Father intro or the ITPOE initial section (for example), but this intro says nothing to me.

Well, maybe I just wanted to let off steam.

I'm glad you guys are enjoying the singles so far

[Dream Team]

One thing I thought of, in that recent JP/MP video they talked about meeting Chris Degarmo on the Mindcrime tour and him telling them the importance of "big shapes". Don't really hear any of that in these singles but I'm sure the other songs will have more breathing room in the sections.

[Thoughtspart3]

Like many of you I had little emotional reaction on my first two listens. That was not the case with NT. It is interesting that some are digging it right away. Is it just what some of us were hoping for and having that either fulfilled or not fulfilled? Shredding prog-metal versus more melodic emotional prog-metal (for lack of a better term)?

Funny - my reaction is the opposite. While NT is OK, it doesn't grab me as being an upper tier song that will make my top 10 or even top 25 list. OTOH, from my first listen to ABM, it grabbed me right away. The only thing I still have a hard time with is the guitar solo and underlying instrumental part with it - it's great in its own right, but doesn't fit the rest of the song. IMO, it should be in a different, more appropriate song, just the same as the Zappa section in Beyond This Life should be elsewhere. But like BTL, I'm sure over time I'll get more used to that guitar solo in ABM.

I agree that the instrumental felt odd emotionally given the dark and heavy sections leading up to it. In the video it is interpreted as the good times with your fellow soldiers and small times of rest between battles. This helped me a little if this is what the band envisioned when writing the song.

Cool that you liked it right away. That is what I was trying to figure out. Why the disparity of reactions? Why do some feel numb at get nothing while others are blown away on first listen. Sometimes it just takes time to digest which I have learned with prog. Don't judge too quickly! It might be a grower.

[geeeemo]

I gave a proper watch to the video today, after several other listens. It made sense now. The middle JP section.
Today is Dec 7. We remember those who sacrificed for others in war.The battles end, and for many its a happy time. But for others, they are still broken. Not to heal in this life.

Aside from that. James vkice is used wonderfully for where he is. You can still hear his lovely sound and it's used for good emotion. Its a classic DT song, the keyboard and guitar solos are very enjoyable. My only little issue, is I think of The Alien at the beignning and end. I like The Alien, but still.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I may have get used to the dinamycs that Mangini added to the songs and I'm finding very difficult to enjoy the Portnoy drumming. I find it uninspired and repetitive. It's strange because I still love the Honor Thy Father intro or the ITPOE initial section (for example), but this intro says nothing to me.

I would say that MP's playing is very clever on these new tracks.  Take for instance the second verse tempo change in Night Terror.  On a casual listen it sounds just like a solid 12/8 groove, but if you break it down you hear a very cool poly rhythm [4/4 over 6/8 or something like that - Reminds me of the rim click poly rhythm in Eve.] and the entire section is also off-syncopated with the guitar [which drops an 8th note rest at the top of some measures].

Further, listen to the first verse of A Broken Man.  The drums feel like this to me: 4/4 + 4/4 + 7/8, followed by 4/4 + 4/4 + 5/8.  Mostly a straight forward beat with a slight a stutter-step at the end.  But the guitar is playing a completely different syncopation.  6/4 + 11/8, 6/4 + 9/8, etc.  The end result is that the drums and guitars fall in and out of sync with each other.  All very interesting to me.

I suspected that MP's return would bring more of a groove back into the drumming, but still be technical without having to announce "Hey everyone, I'm doing math here." [not meant to be a ding at Mangini - its just a different approach].   

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I would say that MP's playing is very clever on these new tracks.  Take for instance the second verse tempo change in Night Terror.  On a casual listen it sounds just like a solid 12/8 groove, but if you break it down you hear a very cool poly rhythm [4/4 over 6/8 or something like that - Reminds me of the rim click poly rhythm in Eve.] and the entire section is also off-syncopated with the guitar [which drops an 8th note rest at the top of some measures].

Further, listen to the first verse of A Broken Man.  The drums feel like this to me: 4/4 + 4/4 + 7/8.  Mostly a straight forward beat with a slight a stutter-step at the end.  But the guitar is playing a completely different syncopation.  6/4 + 11/8, 6/4 + 9/8, etc.  The end result is that the drums and guitars fall in and out of sync with each other.  All very interesting to me.

I suspected that MP's return would bring more of a groove back into the drumming, but still be technical without having to announce "Hey everyone, I'm doing math here." [not meant to be a ding at Mangini - its just a different approach].   

They did plenty of these types of rhythmic things in both MP1 and MM eras.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Agreed generally speaking, there are innovative drumming sections throughout the DT cataglog and I don't think that has diminished any with these new tracks, even if at first listen the drums feel less flashy (to me anyways).  However, I'm hard pressed to think of a DT song that uses the off-syncopation rests similar to that Night Terror section.

[Jamesman42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the flatted fifth is what the main riff in As I Am is pretty much centered around? I played a flatted fifth C on my guitar today and it was right in line with that riff (it adds other notes but the main gist is there).

[TAC]

I still have no clue what we're talking about.

[Adami]

I still have no clue what we're talking about.

The intro to Black Sabbath.

[TAC]

The intro to Black Sabbath.

The little squigly thing at the end?

[Cool Chris]

I still have no clue what we're talking about.

Indeed 

[ganpondorodf]

Metal in general is full of the tritone, it's hardly unique to DT. It's a good shortcut to making a riff 'badass'.

[Adami]

The little squigly thing at the end?

The first three notes. The 3rd note is a flat fifth.

[TAC]

The first three notes. The 3rd note is a flat fifth.

So  Duh...Duh...Duhh?