A Broken Man - Out December 3rd

[Progmaniac1988]

Haven't listened to either of the singles.
But for all those who heard them once or twice and say they are bad, awful, or a disgrace to the human kind.
Guys started writing February 8.
The album was handed to the label 7 months later.
All this time, the guys were in the studio, working, writing and rewriting some parts, trying to figure out how to make the best possible songs.
In this time period, they (especially JP as the producer) altered some parts and micro details and listened to the album probably hundreds of times.
Do you still think that what the guys created in 7 months time you were able to unravel in one listens or two, and have already a strong opinion about their new singles?

100% agree,
I gave it abt 20 listens already and still catch things I did not notice previously.

Great singles, I feel a lot of peoples expectations for DT are just unreasonable.

My one real critique is I wish the vocal arrangements were a bit more memorable on a broken man, but I'm still loving it all the same.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

I AI generated a tab for this song, it can be found here: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/dream-theater-a-broken-man-tab-s846429
I haven't had the chance to go through correcting errors, so if you encounter any, feel free to edit them

[gborland]

Do you think they're playing the long game with this one? Deliberately feeding us crappy AI artwork and videos, and a terrible audio mix, because they know it will keep us all awake at night? Parasomnia to the extreme? This could be the most meta DT release ever.

[Dedalus]

Do you still think that what the guys created in 7 months time you were able to unravel in one listens or two, and have already a strong opinion about their new singles?

I understand the caution, as it is entirely possible to change your mind and that is okay.

But I will also not forget that there are several examples of the band itself where first impressions were not overcome.

To mention just one: the first time I heard Forsaken I absolutely hated it. Seventeen years later I still hate it. I think seventeen years is an appropriate time to say, well... it didn't work.

In any case, take first impressions as first impressions.

Furthermore, if negative first impressions are worthless, neither are positive ones.

I don't go to DT for "metal", and yet I like this.  It's uptempo, it's powerful, but I don't know that it's "metal".

Really? If this song isn't a good example of DT's metal version, what would be in your opinion?

[cramx3]

Haven't listened to either of the singles.
But for all those who heard them once or twice and say they are bad, awful, or a disgrace to the human kind.
Guys started writing February 8.
The album was handed to the label 7 months later.
All this time, the guys were in the studio, working, writing and rewriting some parts, trying to figure out how to make the best possible songs.
In this time period, they (especially JP as the producer) altered some parts and micro details and listened to the album probably hundreds of times.
Do you still think that what the guys created in 7 months time you were able to unravel in one listens or two, and have already a strong opinion about their new singles?

Certainly fair points, I know I've tried to be clear that my opinions are based on one, and now a few, listens.  Things change, and for me, prog metal takes MANY listens usually for me to appreciate it.  A song may not hit on first listen, but maybe it does on the 5th.  I think first impressions are fair though, they are what they are.  For many though, they will judge solely on first impressions.  That's not how I roll, but that's going to be the case for a vast amount of people.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

To mention just one: the first time I heard Forsaken I absolutely hated it. Seventeen years later I still hate it. I think seventeen years is an appropriate time to say, well... it didn't work.

Right. I'm coming for you tonight

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Certainly fair points, I know I've tried to be clear that my opinions are based on one, and now a few, listens.  Things change, and for me, prog metal takes MANY listens usually for me to appreciate it.  A song may not hit on first listen, but maybe it does on the 5th.  I think first impressions are fair though, they are what they are.  For many though, they will judge solely on first impressions.  That's not how I roll, but that's going to be the case for a vast amount of people.

Some of the details will emerge over time with repeated listens. Everyone has things that they're more drawn to in a song but because many feel like they're heard this template being done before, where realistically is the a-ha moment going to come from?

[Zydar]

Okay, after a second listen just now I'm slowly warning up to it (yesterday I had a crappy day at work and was not in the right headspace for a first listen). 

[Pettor]

After a few listen.


*The mix is terrible.
*I like drum composition but don't like how it sounds. Again, maybe the mix problem.
*Nothing new on the table. It's like the track directly from DoT or A View. I can't feel the Portnoy style. It's all over Mangini. (Don't mean it is a bad thing.)

I wouldn't say terrible but something is off right? Personally I love D/T mix and big 👍 for AVFTTOTW mix as well. This feels like a clear step back to me and I am not sure why. They finally found their way back with the previous records 🤔

It's fine however! Not self-titled bad and somehow feels more in line with ADTOE, which I guess is fine.

[WilliamMunny]

Okay, after a second listen just now I'm slowly warning up to it (yesterday I had a crappy day at work and was not in the right headspace for a first listen).

I can't tell you how often that happens to me.

[Dedalus]

And speaking of details, something that I hadn't paid much attention to in the first few listens and that I like more now are the layers of keyboards in the background, for example at 0:45. I think they contribute very well to the song.

Another compliment to JR. I like the first two tones used in the solo, but I'm already tired of the third tone.

The solos by JR and JP are interesting. They haven't fascinated me so far, but they are interesting.

And getting back to the mix subject: I just listened to the intro of ABM and then the intro of Deliverance (because they are similar). The difference in the quality of the mix is brutal. I listened to both on YT.

[WilliamMunny]

And speaking of details, something that I hadn't paid much attention to in the first few listens and that I like more now are the layers of keyboards in the background, for example at 0:45. I think they contribute very well to the song.

Another compliment to JR. I like the first two tones used in the solo, but I'm already tired of the third tone.

The solos by JR and JP are interesting. They haven't fascinated me so far, but they are interesting.

And getting back to the mix subject: I just listened to the intro of ABM and then the intro of Deliverance (because they are similar). The difference in the quality of the mix is brutal. I listened to both on YT.

Curious as to which you prefer?

I know Michael has always been a bit down on Deliverance, but for my money, the album sounds amazing.

[Dedalus]

Curious as to which you prefer?

I know Michael has always been a bit down on Deliverance, but for my money, the album sounds amazing.

Deliverance. The guitars and drums sound much better.

[nobloodyname]

I haven't listened to it yet. Not sure if I will. Really not a fan of material being released so far out from an album's release. We're still over two bloody months away!

[Dedalus]

Another compliment to JR. I like the first two tones used in the solo, but I'm already tired of the third tone.

I meant to say timbres

[genome]

I haven't listened to it yet. Not sure if I will. Really not a fan of material being released so far out from an album's release. We're still over two bloody months away!

That's the world we live in now unfortunately... Nightwish's album came out in late September, the first single was released in May!

[TheCountOfNYC]

And speaking of details, something that I hadn't paid much attention to in the first few listens and that I like more now are the layers of keyboards in the background, for example at 0:45. I think they contribute very well to the song.

Jordan's post SDoiT solos have been pretty hit or miss for me, but he has always absolutely killed it with his composition, orchestration, and keyboard patch choices for all non-lead parts. More than his solos, the more subtle background stuff he does is why he's my all time favorite keyboard player.

[lovethedrake]

And speaking of details, something that I hadn't paid much attention to in the first few listens and that I like more now are the layers of keyboards in the background, for example at 0:45. I think they contribute very well to the song.

Another compliment to JR. I like the first two tones used in the solo, but I'm already tired of the third tone.

The solos by JR and JP are interesting. They haven't fascinated me so far, but they are interesting.

And getting back to the mix subject: I just listened to the intro of ABM and then the intro of Deliverance (because they are similar). The difference in the quality of the mix is brutal. I listened to both on YT.

You nailed the part about JR's tones.  The first two are great but that wanking synth sound is soooo boring now.  It's like they just use as an obligatory transition to Petrucci's guitar solo.

Do you think there is a single DT fan that likes that synth solo now?  Would be curious.

[Dedalus]

Jordan's post SDoiT solos have been pretty hit or miss for me, but he has always absolutely killed it with his composition, orchestration, and keyboard patch choices for all non-lead parts. More than his solos, the more subtle background stuff he does is why he's my all time favorite keyboard player.

It's an interesting way to look at his contributions. We usually always look at leads.

You nailed the part about JR's tones.  The first two are great but that wanking synth sound is Soooo boring now.  It's like they just use as an obligatory transition to Petrucci's guitar solo.

Do you think there is a single DT fan that likes that synth solo now?  Would be curious.

Boring is the word.

There are probably some who still like it a lot. There always are.

[nobloodyname]

That's the world we live in now unfortunately... Nightwish's album came out in late September, the first single was released in May!

Yeah, I know, I know... but ugh! It also means I have to be careful with streaming services in case it comes on during shuffle.

I might listen at some point. I'd just prefer not to hear almost 20 minutes of the album this far from release, I suppose.

Old man shouting at passing clouds and all that

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Do you think there is a single DT fan that likes that synth solo now?  Would be curious.

If he used a different timbre for different solos, then they would be more interesting. It would be great to have the LTE lead back at some point

[Stadler]

Yeah, I know, I know... but ugh! It also means I have to be careful with streaming services in case it comes on during shuffle.

I might listen at some point. I'd just prefer not hear almost 20 minutes of the album this far release, I suppose.

Old man shouting at passing clouds and all that

Let's all join hands!

[MoraWintersoul]

With the art, is it really a big deal to give the prompts to a human artist rather than a computer artist or AI guy? At the end of the day, the Band has to approve it to be representative of themselves.

It is a big deal to me because it looks bad. They're approving art that looks bad, that would never fly if a human artist gave it to them - this is beyond your usual Hugh Syme booboos - just because it came from AI and therefore it was easier to obtain than sending 10 messages back and forth with a human artist and paying them. If this visualizer is that much of a throwaway to them just animate the lyrics like we used to do 6 months before fucking Midjourney came out.

[cramx3]

It is a big deal to me because it looks bad. They're approving art that looks bad, that would never fly if a human artist gave it to them - this is beyond your usual Hugh Syme booboos - just because it came from AI and therefore it was easier to obtain than sending 10 messages back and forth with a human artist and paying them. If this visualizer is that much of a throwaway to them just animate the lyrics like we used to do 6 months before fucking Midjourney came out.

They've also approved some not so great art that was done by a human    To me, the issue isn't so much that the art sucks.  The music is the real focus, so the art is basically just something to talk about for me.  The problem is potentially the lack of caring about the artwork might suggest a lack of caring about the overall product and that includes the music.  The AI artwork is super easy to spot the flaws, how did this get green lit?

[DTiwbwMP]

I guess I'm in the minority. Back in the 70s & 80s when I collected albums in the thousands, I ABSOLUTELY CARED about the albums artwork. NO MORE. Now in this digital age, I really could care less. And, as far as videos go, I NEVER cared for them UNLESS it was a band or artist performance video (as was NT)! ONCE I saw the video for ABM was not a band performance, I didn't even pay attention. Just listened to the music (which as ive stated, unfortunately did NOTHING for me).

[cramx3]

I guess I'm in the minority. Back in the 70s & 80s when I collected albums in the thousands, I ABSOLUTELY CARED about the albums artwork. NO MORE. Now in this digital age, I really could care less. And, as far as videos go, I NEVER cared for them UNLESS it was a band or artist performance video (as was NT)! ONCE I saw the video for ABM was not a band performance, I didn't even pay attention. Just listened to the music (which as ive stated, unfortunately did NOTHING for me).

There's quite a few instances when I went to a CD store as a teen that I'd buy the album based on the artwork.  Sometimes you just didn't have much to go on before the internet and being able to sample songs and you'd only have whatever the store offered.  That is never the case now.

[DoctorAction]

Mixed reactions here. And, of course, this will change over time.

I like it more than NT after one listen. I like most of it, instrumentally. It has some of the uplifting melodic vibe of View with some meatier bits. Really enjoy that intro and the instrumental break.

I'm feeling down on the lyric/vocal combo. The album concept (as I understand it so far) is dull, and the vocals/lyrics are simultaneously too dark for the music and boring. On both songs, they don't scream drama or anguish or terror or anything, really. There's no emotion or anything visceral to be affected by. It just feels like an idea they had and pasted on top of the music they wrote. It's not bad, per se, it's just satisfactory.

We'll see.

[HOF]

Album art I do think is pretty important, or at least can add value to the product. Promo videos I think are inherently useless and like less than 10% of all of the music videos ever made are any good anyway. I wouldn't throw much money, time, or energy at them if I were in a band either probably (I probably wouldn't bother).

[TAC]

It is a big deal to me because it looks bad. They're approving art that looks bad, that would never fly if a human artist gave it to them - this is beyond your usual Hugh Syme booboos - just because it came from AI and therefore it was easier to obtain than sending 10 messages back and forth with a human artist and paying them. If this visualizer is that much of a throwaway to them just animate the lyrics like we used to do 6 months before fucking Midjourney came out.

But the problem still lies with the band though. I'm not going to dismiss AI for AI's sake.

Like Cram said, they've approved the Hugh Syme crap too.

[Stadler]

Count me in on the people that USED to buy albums because of the artwork, back when albums were a foot by a foot square.   Since the CD age?  I look at it, but I can't say I've bought a record in the last 10 years because of the art (or not bought one because of it). 

I won't lie; I'm really struggling with the ideas here. On one hand, the art doesn't bother me much, and it's not like this is "Iron Maiden" or "Marillion" (with Fish) that had a distinct pattern with their art. But on the other hand, it sort of doesn't sit 100% right that it seems like no one is even LOOKING at it before it goes out.  These guys are such sticklers for detail on SO many levels, but not this one?  It doesn't make complete sense to me.  But having said all that, I'm not losing a minute's sleep over it, and it will not and does not impact my desire to hear them and see them (more than once) on the upcoming tour.

[Northern Lion]

Did anyone else notice the shadow man standing next to the bed at 4:10 in the video?  Creeped me out.

I know the use of AI is bothering some, but I just got to say that the guy with the massive gun that appears at 2:52 with the crazed look on his face, has got to be one of the metal moments ever!

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah, I know, I know... but ugh! It also means I have to be careful with streaming services in case it comes on during shuffle.

I might listen at some point. I'd just prefer not hear almost 20 minutes of the album this far release, I suppose.

Old man shouting at passing clouds and all that

it took me so long to find out what that idiom means    (and I've always been a massive Simpsons fan, go figure)

[nobloodyname]

Count me in on the people that USED to buy albums because of the artwork, back when albums were a foot by a foot square.

Yes! Record artwork really did have a huge impact on me, as well as absolutely influencing some of my purchasing decisions, back in the mid/late 80s.

[Max Kuehnau]

as they do for me (given the album in question isn't available in 24 bit)

[ZirconBlue]

I feel like a "visualizer" is different from a "music video".  It's just throwing some stuff on the screen for people who are checking it out on YouTube, since a black screen would be boring.  I would prefer a lyric video to a visualizer, but, whatever.  I don't generally get my music from YouTube, so it doesn't really matter to me.  

Now, an actual music video can enhance a song if done well.