New single, Night Terror. Discuss.

[jimgolf]

I agree with others who vastly prefer the radio edit(which is such a weird thing to think). I think it kind of lays out a thought I've had of awhile that DT could really benefit from an outside producer. There's just times where I think a little outside guidance or perspective would really help them (just guidance, not forcing them to write a certain way). The edit just sounds much more focused than the original version. I still dig it and look forward to hearing if live(and I'm glad to hear James sounding really good on the track with his voice in a comfortable pocket).

[MirrorMask]

I agree with others who vastly prefer the radio edit(which is such a weird thing to think). I think it kind of lays out a thought I've had of awhile that DT could really benefit from an outside producer. There's just times where I think a little outside guidance or perspective would really help them (just guidance, not forcing them to write a certain way).

That's where I stand as well.

Someone in the older thread said that after the FII fiasco with the producer, they "threw away the baby with the dirt water", meaning that in getting rid of the bad things about a producer - in that specific case, the label interference to write more easy-listening songs - they got rid as well of the outside perspective that a producer can offer.

The prime example of this? A Nightmare to Remember. All the discussions about the growling section, how to do it, growl or no growl, Mike alone or Mike overlayed with James, which of the various takes and attempts to use etc etc.... d'uh, that was a producer's job, to suggest the best way to handle that section.

In the specific case of Night Terror, it didn't feel 10 minutes long to me however. Now I'll try to stay away from the radio edit in case I realize the "bloat" that was cut 

[Infinite Cactus]

I love it. That's it. It's nice to have Mike back.

[macneil]

After two listens, a listen to the edit and watching the vid, my initial assessment may have been a little harsh.  While this is DT by numbers and really a mix of modern DT with a splash of BC/SC, I think this is a bloody decent tune.  You certainly can feel that bit of extra flair, energy and excitement in there.

The riff is just excellent too.

This is how I feel about it too. It's grown on me after a few listens, and feels like a good mix of modern DT with a splash of SC/BC thrown in like you say. I'm not willing to say it's better than the last couple modern DT albums yet as I do enjoy them, but I'm feeling pretty positive about the potential of the new album at the moment.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I agree with others who vastly prefer the radio edit(which is such a weird thing to think). I think it kind of lays out a thought I've had of awhile that DT could really benefit from an outside producer. There's just times where I think a little outside guidance or perspective would really help them (just guidance, not forcing them to write a certain way). The edit just sounds much more focused than the original version. I still dig it and look forward to hearing if live(and I'm glad to hear James sounding really good on the track with his voice in a comfortable pocket).

I don't meant to be sarcastic or have people take this the wrong way but hasn't the pitch (from certain band members and fans) been that Mike is back and he brings this other level cinematic directors view to the band where he can visualize where certain sections go and don't go? It seems odd that first song back and a lot of us are noticing something we didn't love about his last 3 records which was unnecessary bloat.

[devieira73]

The radio edit feels very natural, very cool! But I still prefer the original.

[DoctorAction]

Initial thoughts moved from the album thread:

Quite like Night Terror so far. Only have first impressions afters two listens and DT takes time for me but:

Nice to hear Mike with the band again and all performances are tasty. The riffs, noodling and solo stuck out as cool. That riff in the slower breakdown is ace and I love the feel of that slowdown. Nothing in the lyrics stuck out to me as emotive or affecting but nothing cringey either. James sounds good and the vox feel warm and present. Vocal melodies feel more involving and uplifting than on the last.

And after a few more listens:

I've not heard the edit nor am I planning to but I'm really liking this song now.

While the cover art smells like TOT or BCSL, this doesn't sound like it. (I dislike both of those albums.) This has a real sense of movement, groove, energy and fun.
The mix is great.
That chopped up riff section that starts at 3:50 is brilliant.
Most excited I've been for a DT album for ages.
I can't wait for the album! 

[Zydar]

After two listens, a listen to the edit and watching the vid, my initial assessment may have been a little harsh.  While this is DT by numbers and really a mix of modern DT with a splash of BC/SC, I think this is a bloody decent tune.  You certainly can feel that bit of extra flair, energy and excitement in there.

The riff is just excellent too.

I bet you've already tabbed out the guitar parts already, or the main riff at least. 

[Pettor]

I don't meant to be sarcastic or have people take this the wrong way but hasn't the pitch (from certain band members and fans) been that Mike is back and he brings this other level cinematic directors view to the band where he can visualize where certain sections go and don't go? It seems odd that first song back and a lot of us are noticing something we didn't love about his last 3 records which was unnecessary bloat.

Just to chip in on this. I think the new track has DNA from that expectation and isn't the same thing as bloat. The second verse and general dynamics / progression of the track does have what at least I hoped for and was many times lacking during the Mangini era. However one song isn't enough to prove anything.

Unnecessary bloat or having an outside producer was extremely common discussions during the MP era. I love TOT but know many fans complain about bloat on that album. However the progression and general structure of tracks like ITNOG or TDS are amazing!

[DT89]

I bet you've already tabbed out the guitar parts already, or the main riff at least.

I did: https://youtu.be/XepA7m_5a7g?si=uKIk1DcZahhTObDv

[Jamesman42]

Next day and I don't remember what it sounds like at all. I'll listen later today.

[Awaken]

Next day and I don't remember what it sounds like at all. I'll listen later today.

Struggling w this myself

[The Letter M]

The TL;DR version of it is that there are tools to create an image by just writing a prompt, some are even free like Bing Image Creator. You describe with accurancy what you want, as "dark, broody, unsettling image of a girl sleepwalking in an ancient room of a manor with a bed in the middle of it, spooky atmosphere, desaturated colors" and the system generates it.

Now, this is REALLY the TL;DR version of it; there are various tools, various ways to merge AI prompts with actual art etc etc and no one is saying that Syme only "typed a prompt" to get a cover - there are ways to get some help from a computer while still producing the actual artwork yourself. But this is the gist of it when you hear people complain about AI art.

And one of the biggest ethical reasons to not use these programs is because they are trained based on other artists' images and artwork to generate these pictures. Of course these artists aren't being compensated at all and effectively their artwork is stolen to be copied by computers.

-Marc.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Just to chip in on this. I think the new track has DNA from that expectation and isn't the same thing as bloat. The second verse and general dynamics / progression of the track does have what at least I hoped for and was many times lacking during the Mangini era. However one song isn't enough to prove anything.

Unnecessary bloat or having an outside producer was extremely common discussions during the MP era. I love TOT but know many fans complain about bloat on that album. However the progression and general structure of tracks like ITNOG or TDS are amazing!

I guess I am just not hearing the promised musical benefits of the drummer swap. I'll wait until the rest of the album is out before rushing to broader conclusions.

The first song back I thought would be a big statement and maybe it is in a different way; it's not the one I was expecting. I can't say I am entirely blindsided because Mike himself said it would sound like they picked up where they left off.

There's been a lot of hype about this and the first release is a song that sounds a natural successor to an album they made during a musical trough that ended in the 2,009th year of our Lord.

[Adami]

I guess I am just not hearing the promised musical benefits of the drummer swap. I'll wait until the rest of the album is out before rushing to broader conclusions.

And you probably won't hear any benefits. It's just a matter of taste.

If I hate Chinese food, and love Italian food, and you love Chinese food and hate Italian food, then a restaurant switching from Chinese to Italian is a huge benefit for me and a major loss to you. The quality won't matter.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

And you probably won't hear any benefits. It's just a matter of taste.

If I hate Chinese food, and love Italian food, and you love Chinese food and hate Italian food, then a restaurant switching from Chinese to Italian is a huge benefit for me and a major loss to you. The quality won't matter.

Well, it's totally conceivable that I could like the drumming less yet like the album as a whole more than View, DT12 etc. That's my hope right now.

The drummer is important but it's not everything.

[Adami]

Well, it's totally conceivable that I could like the drumming less yet like the album as a whole more than View, DT12 etc. That's my hope right now.

The drummer is important but it's not everything.

That's totally fair, but I was also talking about the songwriting in general.

But if it helps, to keep to my dumb food analogy, while I was excited to hear they were going from Chinese food to Italian food, I don't find this particular meal terribly interesting.

I too was hoping for more than just a return to the past. Of course maybe the rest of the album is more foreward thinking. We shall see.

[WilliamMunny]

I just listened to the edited version and wow, my opinion has changed, put me in the camp that prefers that version.  So much better than the album version.  This version actually has me now quite optimistic for the album.

Judging by the song lengths ( ), the edit is NOT indicative of the album (but, yeah, the edit is great)

[Stadler]

And one of the biggest ethical reasons to not use these programs is because they are trained based on other artists' images and artwork to generate these pictures. Of course these artists aren't being compensated at all and effectively their artwork is stolen to be copied by computers.

-Marc.

Isn't every artist "trained based on other artists images and artwork" to some degree?  Should Rush get paid every time there's a note in any song that can be attributed back to them in some form or fashion?

[Zydar]

What's the use really of a radio edit? Are DT being played on the radio?

[mikeyd23]

I like the single, part of it might be the nostalgic feeling of having MP back, but I think it's a solid tune. It's not going to be my favorite DT song anytime soon, but it certainly does have the "MP in DT feel" back in it.

A lot of that just has to do with his feel and pocket as a drummer, the drum sounds he gets, and how he definitely pushes and pulls around the beat a little more than someone like MM did. Not making a statement he does anything better or worse than MM, just different, and that difference makes, well a difference! 

That all said, strangely, I agree with others here that the radio edit might be better, to my ears. Which is something I didn't think I'd ever say.

[Max Kuehnau]

What's the use really of a radio edit? Are DT being played on the radio?

rarely (in my observation) but I did hear The Looking Glass on the radio at some point. You can imagine my surprise.

[skydivingninja]

I've listened to it about five times and I'm neither under nor over whelmed. Just whelmed. I do think it's reminiscent of A Nightmare to Remember, mostly the spooky atmosphere and in the instrumental sections, but the riffs are more melodic and less thrashy than that song. Good instrumental sections and riffs, boring song. Hope the rest of the album is better.

Like:
* The off-kilter riff between the first chorus and second verse
* JP's guitar tone. Feels less like "high-gain ultra metal" and more "mid-gain rock" tone.
* Myung is audible!
* Mike Portnoy Yeah he's pulling out all his old bag of tricks but I really missed his signature on the last 13 years of Dream Theater music.
* The instrumental section in the second half. Good melodies, cool unison, and a neat JP solo that recalls "In the Name of God."
* They do a good job of building a gothic atmosphere.

Dislike:
* Not really a major departure or evolution from anything they've done in the past couple of years. I miss when I was just getting into the band and they were making a point with each album.
* JR's "lead string" sound is really really cheesy. He was doing a better job being in the background with the subtler choir/string pads.
* The vocal melodies are super boring. Which really drags the song down from potentially "good" to decidedly "mid."

[Wukong]

And you probably won't hear any benefits. It's just a matter of taste.

If I hate Chinese food, and love Italian food, and you love Chinese food and hate Italian food, then a restaurant switching from Chinese to Italian is a huge benefit for me and a major loss to you. The quality won't matter.

Marco Polo took spaghetti back to Italy from his journeys in China which is kinda what I'm hearing here. Mike Portnoy was the true hand drawn noodles and we had boxed spaghetti cooked boiled on the stovetop in the interim but now that Mike is back we're eating good again.

[The Letter M]

Isn't every artist "trained based on other artists images and artwork" to some degree?  Should Rush get paid every time there's a note in any song that can be attributed back to them in some form or fashion?

The key point with AI "art" is that it is being artificially generated by trained algorithms, and not created by real people who, yes, are often influenced and inspired by the artists who've come before them. New art is always going to be influenced by past art, but a real artist will take years or decades honing their craft and creating their own styles. Also, most artists aren't trained on a database of millions of artworks stolen from across the internet/world to create a singular image based on a given prompt. When someone commissions a real artist, they'll go to them because of their style, and expect a piece in that style. Using a prompt-generated image takes away opportunities from those artists to get paid for their work, which is one of the biggest fears of this fad of using generated artwork. Lots of companies big and small are resorting to using it because they don't want to pay an actual artist and commission artwork for something. I recently saw a local beer/food festival post their event on Facebook with their banner photo was some disgusting AI artwork that even had misspelled words on it.

-Marc.

[Adami]

Marco Polo took spaghetti back to Italy from his journeys in China which is kinda what I'm hearing here. Mike Portnoy was the true hand drawn noodles and we had boxed spaghetti cooked boiled on the stovetop in the interim but now that Mike is back we're eating good again.

Not my point, but glad you're digging it.

[mrpmrpmrpmrp]

OK, I have digested. This is a great track, one of their best singles. your buddy/brother/wife whoever goes to a show with you that is not familiar with them will say "I really liked that one song"...

*Also Jordan's choices on this really make the song build to that classic DT drama at the end.

[hefdaddy42]

Not sure that I PREFER the radio edit, but I definitely like it, which is not usually the case with those.

And I imagine that the main reason for the radio edit to exist is to get airplay on certain SiriusXM stations, because we all know that the chances of DT getting airplay on terrestrial radio is extremely low.

[Shadowmangini]

It's actually exactly the sound I wanted them to make since Systematic Chaos. If this had come out in 2007 instead of Constant Motion, the hype would be off the charts.
The song feels fresh, the instrumentation and vocals feel linked again.
8/10 on first listen, will probably grow.

[skydivingninja]

Isn't every artist "trained based on other artists images and artwork" to some degree?  Should Rush get paid every time there's a note in any song that can be attributed back to them in some form or fashion?

There is a difference between a computer program literally taking bits and pieces of existing art to essentially assemble a collage for you vs. John Petrucci being inspired to write prog music because he liked Rush and Yes. If John Petrucci picked and chose literal individual, recorded notes from various artists, assembled them into a song, and did not pay those artists any royalties or get those samples cleared, it would be unethical as well.

[lordxizor]

"Sounds like Dream Theater" was my first reaction. Nothing groundbreaking, but a solid entry into the DT catalogue. Biggest criticism is the lyrics, they seem a bit simplistic, but I'm not really a big lyrics guy anyway, so that's not a huge deal for me. Looking forward to the whole album.

[Adami]

"Sounds like Dream Theater" was my first reaction. Nothing groundbreaking, but a solid entry into the DT catalogue. Biggest criticism is the lyrics, they seem a bit simplistic, but I'm not really a big lyrics guy anyway, so that's not a huge deal for me. Looking forward to the whole album.

Lyrics are a good point. I'm writing an album right now and due to family reasons, I'm on a time crunch to get the structure of the song done quickly, and then can go back and change details later. So a lot of my current lyrics are like "good enough to move on." I know I'll re-write them but they show that the vocal melody works and assures the structure is good.

These lyrics felt like those. Something to put there that sounds fine but doesn't mean a ton and don't add anything. While I know a lot of people here don't care about lyrics, I do. They're there. Why put them there if they are meaningless? So if you're going to write lyrics, try to write the best lyrics you can. This didn't feel like that. Similar to a number of modern Metallica songs. Just random phrases on a similar theme thrown together.

[Uncle Rico]

It's exactly what I assumed it would be — more of the same. I've never been a fan of what I would call their dark "gothic" sound (A Nightmare to Remember, Invisible Monster, etc), and prefer their more natural, organic and melancholic dark sound, like Awake. This just feels really forced and put on, like they're trying to be something they're not. Like they're trying to appeal to teenagers that shop at Hot Topic. It feels like a leftover track from the Black Clouds sessions, and maybe a little bit of Systematic Chaos.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It's exactly what I assumed it would be — more of the same. I've never been a fan of what I would call their dark "gothic" sound (A Nightmare to Remember, Invisible Monster, etc), and prefer their more natural, organic and melancholic dark sound, like Awake. This just feels really forced and put on, like they're trying to be something they're not. Like they're trying to appeal to teenagers that shop at Hot Topic. It feels like a leftover track from the Black Clouds sessions, and maybe a little bit of Systematic Chaos.

Teenagers at hot topic? lol. It sounds like they're trying to appeal to their core demographic but I think that's going to be middle aged men many of whom have been around to follow the band for a long time.

[hunnus2000]

I for one love it but it takes me at least 3 or 4 listens to get the gist of the song and understand the structure and where the melodic hooks are.

I can hear certain parts that sound like (for instance) As I AM (which is a Black Sabbath riff) but I also noticed JP using open notes like Alex Lifeson during this part.

That said, this doesn't sound too different than what they did during the Mangini years.

Still excited for new DT music!