New single, Night Terror. Discuss.

[Phoenix87x]

Its pretty much what I was expecting.

I don't think it needed to be 9+ mins. There's strong parts in there, but they get lost with the weaker parts. I know they have the prog champs reputation, but it is ok to make shorter songs if they are kick ass through and through. 

Also, for being 9+ minutes its doesn't flow very well. Its more like parts pieced together then a full song with a clear beginning, middle and end. And as I usually feel with late era DT, jame's vocal melodies aren't that interesting. The singing itself is just ok and the lyrics aren't that interesting. 

So yeah, on the rest of the album

[DTiwbwMP]

The radio edit is vastly more enjoyable to me. I don't think I've ever said that before.

+1

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To go back to the drum fills discussion, drum parts aren't too dissimilar to guitar riffs or vocal melodies, right? Some riffs in this new song are pretty similar to older songs, but not a direct copy, but if they were, he'd be called out for ripping himself off. It wouldn't be a question. There are several people, including myself who immediately recognized and pointed out Mike's drum fills as being exact copies of his fills over many years. Still, others are just like, "that's Mike being Mike." What's the difference here?

I'm not trying to shit all over this song. I've only heard it once so far, and I didn't think it was that bad. Not too compelling, but that could change. I've recognized Mike reusing drum patterns since Systematic Chaos. I guess I'm just curious why for drums it gets a pass.

And just to elaborate a little further, I wouldn't really put power metal songs in the same box. You know the ones where the entire song is just fast double bass drums all the way through? Or even AC/DC's (and countless other bands) straight 4/4 drums beats. Portnoy is using specific drum fill patterns. Wouldn't that even be classified as a "drum riff"?

This is just my brain over analyzing any new music I hear. I can't help it when I hear a band reusing the music they wrote in the past, or when they've intentionally or unintentionally ripped off another band. I can't unheard it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. And he's been using those same fills even before SC.

Look, there are lots of great musicians who do this across different instruments. One of my biggest influences was/is SRV but you listen to all his records and it smacks you in the face: there are glaring substantial similarities and recycled licks over and over again. You can't unhear that if you've been paying attention for so long.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

posting my reaction in the wrong thread and then accidentally deleted it (lol) but in summation I think everything from the music to the mix is just 'fine.' I don't think it's as strong a single as Alien, UA or Enemy Inside but as we know is often the case, the single is not the best song on the album.

Does NT live up to the hype coming from Jordan? No.

[emtee]

I don't disagree with these comments because frankly they are 100% true. However, I, like many others here, have a humongous music collection and about 12'ish years ago I realized I was applying a different and unfair standard to DT (MP) than I was to every other band. The MP'esque bag of tricks we have all come to know and mostly love, are not going to change. And I'm ok with that and grateful that he is still creating music. A perfect example is Priest's new album. There are no new fills or mind blowing parts but it's executed perfectly and I enjoy the hell out of the drumming on it.

For me nowadays it boils down to a simple equation; does the music connect with me and move me?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't disagree with these comments because frankly they are 100% true. However, I, like many others here, have a humongous music collection and about 12'ish years ago I realized I was applying a different and unfair standard to DT (MP) than I was to every other band. The MP'esque bag of tricks we have all come to know and mostly love, are not going to change. And I'm ok with that and grateful that he is still creating music. A perfect example is Priest's new album. There are no new fills or mind blowing parts but it's executed perfectly and I enjoy the hell out of the drumming on it.

You're definitely onto something. I think a lot of people DO listen to DT differently. I certainly do. I love the Winery Dogs for example and have never once been disappointed by the very thing I feel 'meh' about today. Music (or food or a movie for that matter) often has to do with expectations and context.

[The Letter M]

It's funny to see people complain about "Oh, Portnoy is using the same fills and grooves he always does", but similar (or even the same fans) will praise Neil Peart for that same groove he used at least once on nearly every album since Hemispheres (the one groove from "La Villa Strangiato", also used in "The Spirit Of Radio" and dozens of others).

Drummers have their toolboxes, and they'll rightfully use those tools. And personally, having a song with a drum part like MP's (which is less complicated than what MM would play) makes it easier for fans to learn and cover, or even air-drum to. Not that I'm saying MM's parts were impossible to learn, but his skill level probably made it harder for long-time DT/MP fans to want to learn his parts, but with MP back, there's a sense of familiarity and "home" to his grooves and fills that might make it more fun for fans to learn these new songs.

As a drummer and percussionist of over 35 years, I can appreciate what MM played and awe at it, but I would not be able to cover a lot of what he played in DT simply because I'm not at that skill level now (nor was I ever, even at my prime), but MP's parts are a bit more learnable, and I like that about his playing. Not that it's Charlie Watts-level pedestrian drumming, nor is it all 4-on-the-floor dance grooves, but it's fun to learn and listen to in a way that makes hearing him a joy and not math homework.

-Marc.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

It's funny to see people complain about "Oh, Portnoy is using the same fills and grooves he always does", but similar (or even the same fans) will praise Neil Peart for that same groove he used at least once on nearly every album since Hemispheres (the one groove from "La Villa Strangiato", also used in "The Spirit Of Radio" and dozens of others).

Drummers have their toolboxes, and they'll rightfully use those tools. And personally, having a song with a drum part like MP's (which is less complicated than what MM would play) makes it easier for fans to learn and cover, or even air-drum to. Not that I'm saying MM's parts were impossible to learn, but his skill level probably made it harder for long-time DT/MP fans to want to learn his parts, but with MP back, there's a sense of familiarity and "home" to his grooves and fills that might make it more fun for fans to learn these new songs.

As a drummer and percussionist of over 35 years, I can appreciate what MM played and awe at it, but I would not be able to cover a lot of what he played in DT simply because I'm not at that skill level now (nor was I ever, even at my prime), but MP's parts are a bit more learnable, and I like that about his playing. Not that it's Charlie Watts-level pedestrian drumming, nor is it all 4-on-the-floor dance grooves, but it's fun to learn and listen to in a way that makes hearing him a joy and not math homework.

-Marc.

Damn right. Now I can hear the same stuff I play on my kit when I'm bored on a Dream Theater record too!

Seriously though, I don't mind that it's his style, it's just that I don't hear even one thing in there that he hasn't heard before. As drummer yourself, you know that you CAN sit down and craft new and interesting shapes around the kit if you're deliberate about it and desire to push yourself.

I don't need DT drums to be technical beyond my ability to ever learn it, I just want there to be something compelling enough to make me want to learn it. Portnoy-isms are basically my default mode behind the kit. I got so sick of defaulting to that that I switched back to my single pedal for the last year and it's been far more rewarding to do something different.

Mike Portnoy is a phenomenal drummer. He is perfectly capable of intentionally doing something new. I expect the album will have more surprises. When it drops and I sit down with headphones and a whiskey for the first spin, I have no doubt that he WILL blow my mind a few times.

[brakkum]

I wish JM wasn't bathed in red light, I want to see what color that Bongo is

[The Letter M]

Damn right. Now I can hear the same stuff I play on my kit when I'm bored on a Dream Theater record too!

Seriously though, I don't mind that it's his style, it's just that I don't hear even one thing in there that he hasn't heard before. As drummer yourself, you know that you CAN sit down and craft new and interesting shapes around the kit if you're deliberate about it and desire to push yourself.

I don't need DT drums to be technical beyond my ability to ever learn it, I just want there to be something compelling enough to make me want to learn it. Portnoy-isms are basically my default mode behind the kit. I got so sick of defaulting to that that I switched back to my single pedal for the last year and it's been far more rewarding to do something different.

Mike Portnoy is a phenomenal drummer. He is perfectly capable of intentionally doing something new. I expect the album will have more surprises. When it drops and I sit down with headphones and a whiskey for the first spin, I have no doubt that he WILL blow my mind a few times.

Parasomnia will be the third album with Portnoy and Petrucci in the last five years, and if he hasn't pushed himself to do new things yet, I'm not assuming he will just because this is Dream Theater, but I would love to be surprised. Remember when he tried doing blast beats at the end of ANTR and many folks disliked it, but it was something NEW for him at the time. There are always going to be fans on both sides of this fence - ones who want him to try new things and possibly hate them, and ones who like what he does and when he does what they expect him to. But I guess we will find out in about 17 weeks what else he has in store for this new album!

-Marc.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Is that really the thing in ANTR that people disliked? I appreciated that he tried them.

[wolfking]

Okay having my first listen now;

The As I Am intro made me chuckle, drum fills and all.  I think the main riff is pretty damn cool.  I don't really hear the ANTR vibes personally. 

The chorus actually gives me strong UA vibes.  That groove though at 3:49 is fucking amazing, love that transition there.  There's definite AROP influences in here though, quite a bit.  I think the production is a little muddy and JP's tone not sounding as thick as it usually does.

6:19 is TCOT though, can't shake that at all.  The 6:58 section gives me strong ITNOG feels too.  LNF came to mind with JP's solo too.  There really is a lot of DT songs within this song.  Second half of the solo is taken almost directly from I think AVFTTOTW?

Overall, there's nothing new here at all but it's everything as expected.  Is the hype real?  Time will tell but this seems solid while being pretty unoriginal and uninspired to me.  Just another later day DT song.  Best part for me though is the main riff and that 3:49 section.  Only one listen though so don't shoot me.

[wolfking]

I think the production is a little muddy and JP's tone not sounding as thick as it usually does.

Actually, song is in E minor, standard tuning on a 6 string which is interesting.  I did think it wasn't detuned, probably why it doesn't sound as thick. 

[Peter Mc]

It didn't blow me away but I'm not sure DT are going to do that anymore especially not with a "single".

I do like it though and the melodies are growing on me with each listen.  I get the BC&SL comparisons but I think it's better than that. 

Yes MP is doing MP things but it kind of gives me those warm nostalgic feelings hearing those things with DT again, it just fits.

I can't put my finger on why but this feels like it has more life than their recent stuff which sometimes sounded a little sterile.  This feels a bit more  metal

In summary then, nothing new but I'm kinda ok with that.  It sounds like DT and like they have their mojo back a little.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Just checked out the radio edit. Put me in the camp with those who favor that version.

[impolybius]

Also- we gotta talk about Jordan. I respect him as a keyboard player, but he just doesn't know what to do in a heavy song like this. The Casio King Arthur Horns and Deep Purple organ need to go.

I actually think the organ sounds pretty good and fits well over the chugging guitar riff, but yeah—the horns are awful. Not to mention the string and choir patches. I think it's totally fine for them to use a sound library live, and Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra, which I believe Jordan is using these days, actually sounds pretty good. But when it comes to orchestral or choir parts, like Jordan does a lot in this song, I'd definitely prefer if they just got a few string players or a small choir into the studio—it makes a world of difference. Take a listen to the strings in this Opeth song, for example (mainly featured in the chorus and outro). It sounds so much better compared to what we get in DT. Using a sound library for the orchestral sections just makes it sound cheap, especially when it seems like Jordan isn't spending time layering them to make them sound more realistic. That's probably my biggest gripe with Jordan these days.

On another note, I was also finding myself in the underwhelmed camp with Night Terror, but the song is growing on me :-)

[Adami]

Listened to the song a few more times, and I like it less.

It's not bad. At all. It's just not very interesting to me. It sounds, only to me, pretty tired. James sounds a lot better than I expected. JP sounds great, but other than the Metallica riff, none of it really stood out to me or excited me. The vocal writing was pretty boring to me as well, but better than the last few albums, and MP was the most MP I've heard him.

I just didn't feel much from it. Glad others love it. I'll hopefully enjoy hearing it live, assuming they play it when I see them.

[TAC]

Listened to the song a few more times, and I like it less.

It's not bad. At all. It's just not very interesting to me. It sounds, only to me, pretty tired. James sounds a lot better than I expected. JP sounds great, but other than the Metallica riff, none of it really stood out to me or excited me. The vocal writing was pretty boring to me as well, but better than the last few albums, and MP was the most MP I've heard him.

Not sure I'd call their vocal writing boring, but it definitely underutilizes what James can do, and this was an issue before MP left the band.

[macneil]

Its pretty much what I was expecting.

I don't think it needed to be 9+ mins. There's strong parts in there, but they get lost with the weaker parts. I know they have the prog champs reputation, but it is ok to make shorter songs if they are kick ass through and through. 

Also, for being 9+ minutes its doesn't flow very well. Its more like parts pieced together then a full song with a clear beginning, middle and end. And as I usually feel with late era DT, jame's vocal melodies aren't that interesting. The singing itself is just ok and the lyrics aren't that interesting. 

So yeah, on the rest of the album

Agreed about shorter songs, if you haven't checked it out I think the radio edit might actually be stronger than the full-length track which is the first time I've ever said that, and it seems a few others are starting to have that opinion as well.

As for the song itself, I've listened to it a few more times and it's definitely growing on me. I must be in the minority that I really like the chorus melodies.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Agreed about shorter songs, if you haven't checked it out I think the radio edit might actually be stronger than the full-length track which is the first time I've ever said that, and it seems a few others are starting to have that opinion as well.

As for the song itself, I've listened to it a few more times and it's definitely growing on me. I must be in the minority that I really like the chorus melodies.

The chorus is pretty decent to me too. I think it's a stronger chorus than say Invisible Monster.

[TAC]

The chorus is pretty decent to me too. I think it's a stronger chorus than say Invisible Monster.

OK, but that ain't saying much. I'm sure if I listened to night Terror enough, the chorus will sink in but like I said, it's not immediate or melodic. 

[Jamesman42]

Just checked out the radio edit. Put me in the camp with those who favor that version.

Didn't realize there was a radio edit. Listening now.

Edit: That was an easy listening experience. For any band, the more concise and trimmed of fat, the better (looking at you ANTR). I enjoyed this radio edit.

[brakkum]

Given it more listens. Not bad at all, but not my favorite type of DT song. Generally I like the single the least on a lot of albums, I bet this will be similar. Still pumped to have new DT though! Curious if we'll get this in London.

[wolfking]

OK, but that ain't saying much. I'm sure if I listened to night Terror enough, the chorus will sink in but like I said, it's not immediate or melodic. 

It's not.  Not at all.  The vocal melodies after two listens are just not really there.  I probably won't listen to it again though, only once more when I check the video.

[Kram]

It didn't blow me away but I'm not sure DT are going to do that anymore especially not with a "single".

I do like it though and the melodies are growing on me with each listen.  I get the BC&SL comparisons but I think it's better than that. 

Yes MP is doing MP things but it kind of gives me those warm nostalgic feelings hearing those things with DT again, it just fits.

I can't put my finger on why but this feels like it has more life than their recent stuff which sometimes sounded a little sterile.  This feels a bit more metal

In summary then, nothing new but I'm kinda ok with that.  It sounds like DT and like they have their mojo back a little.

I think that's the MP impact you're feeling lol.

[Kram]

Count me as another who thinks the song is OK and sounds good, but doesn't do much for me.  Definitely a been there, done that vibe.  On a positive note, JLB sounds good, better than I was expecting - so I'm excited to hear his performance on the rest of the album.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Just listened to it for the first time. First impressions are this is the best single they've released in, I don't know how long.

It feels less like the chug-a-thons we've have from the last several albums. The guitars sound better and the bass is audible.

I also like MP on the drums way more than MM. Take that for what you will....

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So far seems like a 60%/40% dynamic on people who love it and people who are just ok with it. I feel like that is normally how it goes with DT singles.

[wolfking]

Just listened to it for the first time. First impressions are this is the best single they've released in, I don't know how long.

It feels less like the chug-a-thons we've have from the last several albums. The guitars sound better and the bass is audible.

I also like MP on the drums way more than MM. Take that for what you will....

I too am thankful of this.  The riff is great and a nice change to the usual chugga chugga riffs.

[TAC]

I don't understand. What are the chugga chugga tunes?

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I don't understand. What are the chugga chugga tunes?

Awkane the Master verse, Sleeping Giant verse, Invisible Monster verse, Pale Blue Dot verse, At Wits End verse. Etc.

I like all of those songs a lot but it has become really commonplace.

[kaos2900]

Great production! Also, JLB sounds great. Only one listen for me until the album comes out.

Maybe it's me having gotten older but I'm kind of over the long, meandering instrumental sections. I'd love to hear some song structures like on Awake, Octavarium, and Distance over time. Melodic DT >>> Technical noodling DT.

Just my personal preference, not the fault of the band. Unfortunately, I don't think MP will reignite my inner fanboy.

[TAC]

Awkane the Master verse, Sleeping Giant verse, Invisible Monster verse, Pale Blue Dot verse, At Wits End verse. Etc.

I like all of those songs a lot but it has become really commonplace.

Oh, OK. Well sign me up for the chugga chugga!

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Oh, OK. Well sign me up for the chugga chugga!

Me too. I am all for the chugga chugga if it's going to be riding on a cool rhythmic ideas like PBD.

[wolfking]

Oh, OK. Well sign me up for the chugga chugga!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the style at all, I love it.  It just seems it was becoming a bit of a safe fallback option for JP in a number of songs, mainly verses to fill the gaps a little.