DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[Metro]

I've always wondered if there were any drummers who turned down the invitation to audition.

[goo-goo]

I've always wondered if there were any drummers who turned down the invitation to audition.

Bobby Jarzombek (Fates Warning, Halford Solo, George Strait) said a while back that he turned the invite down.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/bobby-jarzombek-why-i-turned-down-dream-theater-drummer-audition

[Evermind]

I've always wondered if there were any drummers who turned down the invitation to audition.

Bobby Jarzombek (Fates Warning, Halford Solo, George Strait) said a while back that he turned the invite down.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/bobby-jarzombek-why-i-turned-down-dream-theater-drummer-audition

And then I thought, 'What's even going on here? Is Mike [Portnoy] out completely?' And I thought to myself, 'Surely he's gonna be back in the band at some point.'

Well, Bobby Jarzombek wasn't wrong.

[bosk1]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

Yeah, that was what Roddy said.  I don't remember the exact quote, but he basically said it wasn't something that was right for his situation in life at that time, but he and his wife talked it over, and decided that when Dream Theater comes calling, you do the audition.  I'm sure it's all quoted in the drummer audition thread if anyone cares to take the time to hunt it all down. 

[Lonk]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

Yeah, that was what Roddy said.  I don't remember the exact quote, but he basically said it wasn't something that was right for his situation in life at that time, but he and his wife talked it over, and decided that when Dream Theater comes calling, you do the audition.  I'm sure it's all quoted in the drummer audition thread if anyone cares to take the time to hunt it all down. 

TAC linked in in the previous page

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxg2dPikx3g

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39993.0

[Setlist Scotty]

I've always wondered if there were any drummers who turned down the invitation to audition.

Don't quote me on this, but for some reason another name that comes to mind is Rod Morgenstein, although I couldn't tell you where I may have heard that from. Could have come from one of the many speculation discussions that happened back then, so don't take it as fact.

[HOF]

I do seem to recall speculation about Rod being a potential replacement just because he had worked with Jordan and Myung a good bit in the past. But I don't recall ever hearing that he declined an audition (may have and I just never heard it).

[gzarruk]

I remember a few years ago Jordan shared a pic of Rod recording for his solo album (Wired for Madness) and MP commented on the post, most likely on instagram, saying that he thought Rod would be their first option to replace him after he left the band.

[ytserush]

It's one thing if it's its own tour like the I&W&B tour, which I skipped, but I did not agree with overshadowing the DoT album tour proper with Scenes in full.

100% with you on this. I skipped the I&W&B tour as well, for the same reason. I was actually pissed with the Scenes from a Memory tour because I wanted very much to have a full concert of DoT songs being featured. 

I did too. Wanted no part of that. First Dream Theater tour I ever missed at the point.

Wasn't too thrilled with Rush pulling out Moving Pictures for the Time Machine Tour but at least they played two previously unreleased songs, two previously unplayed live songs (Presto and Faithless)  the polkas and various comedy.

[ytserush]

As The Lawyers (affectionately) pointed out, things need to get hammered out in a deliberate manner, yet MP's comments would have you believe that roles haven't even been discussed, or much of anything. There must be some kind of documented language in place before they would make such an announcement, no? MP gave ME the impression that there's a lot up in the air still, but surely the business agreement has to have been completed?

I find it hard to believe that none of this stuff was discussed beforehand especially since I think the reunion may have been in the works way before the announcement. But if that is the case than I hope it all works out because from the outside looking in the process that made this happen seems suspect.

[ytserush]

What am I even reading....

Welcome to the forum!

[MoraWintersoul]

but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

Someone said this? I don't remember that.

Not the guys who were in the documentary but other lesser known drummers and people in the "drumming community". I've heard a lot of comments like that, that if they were hiring on musical ability, they should have hired some of the other guys from the docu. It's all water under the bridge now though...

[bosk1]

but there's not much proof except prog drummers with egos who don't vibe with Mangini thinking he was a pure personality hire.

Someone said this? I don't remember that.

Not the guys who were in the documentary but other lesser known drummers and people in the "drumming community". I've heard a lot of comments like that, that if they were hiring on musical ability, they should have hired some of the other guys from the docu. It's all water under the bridge now though...

But I think that argument is a bit misleading.  Look at the guys on the list.  Ability was a given in terms of the guys who auditioned being able to play DT material.  From a skill/ability standpoint, any of them (or at least most of them) could have stepped in and done a competent job.  The musical ability was there.  So at that point, of course personality and other "intangibles" and specific preferences would have come into play, and none of that somehow lessens the need for skill and ability.

I do hiring at my present job.  By the time applications are screened and we start scheduling interviews, it's pretty much a given that the skill and ability thresholds have been met and we are relatively confident the interviewees can do the job.  From there, we start looking at other factors.  And if someone demonstrates during the interview that they are maybe an 8.5 out of 10 in terms of skill and ability, but they come across as someone who follows rules, doesn't cause trouble, is pleasant to work with, and fits the office culture, they are going to score better in the interviews than someone who is a 9.5/10 in skill and ability, but comes across as a jerk and a troublemaker.  Doesn't mean the 8.5 isn't skilled, even if you may classify them as a "personality hire."

[King Postwhore]

Those sho say Mangini is not up to par on his skills are not drummers or just jealous. 

[DoctorAction]

Even as someone who has barely played the drums, MM clearly has the ability for DT. To say otherwise is objectively wrong (he played their material at the audition) and subjectively daft. It's Mike Mangini ferchrissake. 

[Eroma]

I just hope they keep on playing a lot of songs from the MM era live. Breaking all illusions to start with :-)

[MoraWintersoul]

Those sho say Mangini is not up to par on his skills are not drummers or just jealous.

I've always thought so  Even if Lang or Minnemann are like 5% better than him (by the judgment of some people, which I don't agree with btw), it doesn't mean they would have been better for the job. There was so many BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THIS GUY posts when most of those guys weren't really up for taking, per se. They could have been convinced, probably, but when you have a guy who fits into DT, you don't think about those things as closely, as bosk said.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Even as someone who has barely played the drums, MM clearly has the ability for DT. To say otherwise is objectively wrong (he played their material at the audition) and subjectively daft. It's Mike Mangini ferchrissake. 

Agreed. Everything he played, he made look easy while staying faithful to the original drum parts. I don't even understand why anyone would try to say something to the contrary. One thing probably driving those claims - to the extent they're even out there because I haven't heard anyone but Mora bring this up - is the way that drummers like Virgil, Lang, etc are viewed in the drum world. These guys are literally viewed as the top drumming gods with sorts of crazy patterns and technique on their solo work. So to see them come into an audition and despite all that technical prowess NOT deliver on the spot exactly what DT was asking for is probably shocking to some people. Maybe there was a sort of disbelief and denial that some of these guys 'failed' in some sense.

[Setlist Scotty]

I think another factor - besides the fact that he was probably the most enthusiastic of the bunch and dare I say prepared - is his background. Not only was he an instructor at Berklee, but he also is from the NE part of the US, was roughly the same age and has a similar family situation. I think having those things in common cannot be underestimated in this sort of a situation either.

[Herrick]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

That makes sense. My main question is what if one of these guys were offered the job, would they have turned it down? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because it appears that they all knew what was going on.

[SwedishGoose]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

That makes sense. My main question is what if one of these guys were offered the job, would they have turned it down? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because it appears that they all knew what was going on.

When you go to an interview for a job, are you sure you will say yes?
The interview / audition is for both to get to know each other better to know if this is something that will work.

[Herrick]

Why would anyone audition for a band they didn't really want to be in? Seems like a lot of work especially for the guys who had to travel from another country.

Fragment of memory, impossible to remember where I read it: I'm reasonably sure I've read someone being quoted as "it looks good on the resume".

It's exposure, it's a nice professional experience, and you get to jam with John Petrucci. Worth the time to go there and play with insanely great musicians.

That makes sense. My main question is what if one of these guys were offered the job, would they have turned it down? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because it appears that they all knew what was going on.

When you go to an interview for a job, are you sure you will say yes?
The interview / audition is for both to get to know each other better to know if this is something that will work.

Good point.

[Setlist Scotty]

On one of the DT groups on Facebook, a guy posted photos of attending a JP event last week where he was promoting his bourbon and guitars. Part of it was a Q&A session, so since he hadn't posted about it, I asked if there was much in the way of DT questions, what was said and how JP responded. Here's how the guy responded:

The Q&A questions were (no offense to folks who attended and asked them) not super interesting, as these things tend to go. Only one person, a young kid, asked anything MP related - specifically he asked if they were going to be changing up the setlists more now that MP is back in the band. John said that it's likely given that MP is the member of the band that gets the most "bored" playing the same set and typically wants to change things up. Someone else asked about a potential LTE reunion to play some live gigs, John mentioned that it would be a bit easier to do now that he, MP, and Jordan have matching schedules (and added it would just depend on Tony also being available).

So it sounds like there will probably be at least some variation in the setlists from show to show, although it remains to be seen how much, and that LTE is not done.

[Schurftkut]

i thought LTE had a contract for 2 albums, so who was thinking they'd be done?

[Setlist Scotty]

i thought LTE had a contract for 2 albums, so who was thinking they'd be done?

I've been seeing a bunch of posts, especially on that same Facebook group, where people are wondering if LTE would continue because MP has now returned to DT. Personally, I didn't have any doubt, but this gives unquestionable confirmation that they plan to have LTE continue at some point.

[porcacultor]

On one of the DT groups on Facebook, a guy posted photos of attending a JP event last week where he was promoting his bourbon and guitars. Part of it was a Q&A session, so since he hadn't posted about it, I asked if there was much in the way of DT questions, what was said and how JP responded. Here's how the guy responded:

The Q&A questions were (no offense to folks who attended and asked them) not super interesting, as these things tend to go. Only one person, a young kid, asked anything MP related - specifically he asked if they were going to be changing up the setlists more now that MP is back in the band. John said that it's likely given that MP is the member of the band that gets the most "bored" playing the same set and typically wants to change things up. Someone else asked about a potential LTE reunion to play some live gigs, John mentioned that it would be a bit easier to do now that he, MP, and Jordan have matching schedules (and added it would just depend on Tony also being available).

So it sounds like there will probably be at least some variation in the setlists from show to show, although it remains to be seen how much, and that LTE is not done.

A well-put question by the young kid! And it's interesting – he could've said "not necessarily, we've been doing things differently since his departure", but if he's acknowledging MP's restless spirit (for lack of a better term), maybe that could translate not only in the setlists, but also in the making of new material, with MP having an active voice.

It might seem like I'm overthinking or stating the obvious, but I do like to think that MP being in the band can lead to changes. Not because the recent stuff has been bad (not at all!), but I was a bit worried that he'd resign to being "just the drummer". And that worry had no grounds either, I'm well aware of that 

[Jamesman42]

JP sells bourbon? How far behind the times am I?

[Stadler]

JP sells bourbon? How far behind the times am I?

Check out some pictures, too; he has a beard now. 

[hefdaddy42]

JP sells bourbon? How far behind the times am I?

It's pretty good.

[gzarruk]

JP sells bourbon? How far behind the times am I?

And beard oil too

[Jamesman42]

He is selling things I like or could use, color me intrigued.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Here is more detail regarding that exchange. I am going to paraphrase from memory so please forgive me if I don't get the wording 100%.

As Scotty mentioned, JP said MP gets bored and can play any DT song straight from memory. But for JP, he said that he has to learn a ton of parts so for example relearning Octavarium (I think he used Octavarium specifically as an example) is a ton of work for him. He said that he has really enjoyed NOT doing different setlists the last couple years because it allows him to focus on the production of the shows. He basically said that some degree of changes each night were very likely to happen, though he did not say to what extent. He didn't say 100% but my read of the response was that the days of the same exact setlist each and every night are over.

None of the other 'public' questions are worth discussing.

[porcacultor]

Here is more detail regarding that exchange. I am going to paraphrase from memory so please forgive me if I don't get the wording 100%.

As Scotty mentioned, JP said MP gets bored and can play any DT song straight from memory. But for JP, he said that he has to learn a ton of parts so for example relearning Octavarium (I think he used Octavarium specifically as an example) is a ton of work for him. He said that he has really enjoyed NOT doing different setlists the last couple years because it allows him to focus on the production of the shows. He basically said that some degree of changes each night were very likely to happen, though he did not say to what extent. He didn't say 100% but my read of the response was that the days of the same exact setlist each and every night are over.

None of the other 'public' questions are worth discussing.

Thanks for the details! Good to have more context.

[nikatapi]

i thought LTE had a contract for 2 albums, so who was thinking they'd be done?

I've been seeing a bunch of posts, especially on that same Facebook group, where people are wondering if LTE would continue because MP has now returned to DT. Personally, I didn't have any doubt, but this gives unquestionable confirmation that they plan to have LTE continue at some point.

And in retrospect, seems like Inside Out's (and Thomas Waber's) moves were pretty clever, to get DT and LTE on the label.

[Awaken]

Here is more detail regarding that exchange. I am going to paraphrase from memory so please forgive me if I don't get the wording 100%.

As Scotty mentioned, JP said MP gets bored and can play any DT song straight from memory. But for JP, he said that he has to learn a ton of parts so for example relearning Octavarium (I think he used Octavarium specifically as an example) is a ton of work for him. He said that he has really enjoyed NOT doing different setlists the last couple years because it allows him to focus on the production of the shows. He basically said that some degree of changes each night were very likely to happen, though he did not say to what extent. He didn't say 100% but my read of the response was that the days of the same exact setlist each and every night are over.

None of the other 'public' questions are worth discussing.

This has me in concert cash preservation mode now . . . I will be planning multiple shows/leg again!  Come on DT - announce some dates and take my money