DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[OpenYourEyes311]

There is definitely a lot of gold here, would love to see a lot of these come back. One of my slight fears with the Portnoy reunion is that they're going to start fresh, meaning more emphasis on SFAM/Images and Words/Awake. In other words, pulling out deep cuts that were already given some time in the Mangini era. I hope they pull more from the list posted by OpenYourEyes, but I also fear that nobody is really keeping close track and the only one who would be conscious of it (Portnoy) isn't really paying attention to the last 13 years.

That would, to put it delicately, suck ass and balls.

[Madman Shepherd]

And changed. On this point I agree with you.
They made the easiest decision of all to solve the problem. MP's return will bring back whoever had abandoned the band.
Before the law firm speaks out, I make it clear that this is just MY GUESS. But for me, the economic factor weighed heavily on the return.

But I draw attention to the underlined part. Indeed, but some guys here comment as if the fact that the shows with click was definitive for this. I find it very questionable. I'm sure some of the audience didn't even realize they were using click. In fact, I imagine that we would have to explain to a portion of the public what "using click" is (there is a video of Polyphia's drummer having difficulties at the show, as he stopped hearing everything on his monitor, including the click. .. the drum technician helps him by hitting his leg. I saw comments on the internet from people not understanding what was happening).

100%

People here forget that we are a tiny part of the fan base. In 2014, a guy next to me lost his shit when they played Space Dye Vest, shouting "I cant believe it!" and I remember thinking, "have you been living in a cave?" I've talked to people that have tickets up close that have literally not listened to a DT cd in a decade yet cared enough to get prime seats. Just because DT has maybe a disproportionately large hardcore group of fans does not mean we are the majority or maybe even anything but a small subset. Most people don't care about the majority of things we do here.

[KevShmev]

Okay, someone needs to fix that so we see James' face on that. 

[pg1067]

I'm not sure I want to see James with flamethrowers on his arms during "Burning My Soul", or a big inflatable "Count" during "The Count Of Tuscany".

I hadn't given it any thought before, but now there is nothing in the world that I want MORE than this!

[Dedalus]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

[ReaPsTA]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

This is all correct. Only a month in and we're already back here.

I sure hope the next album is good!!!

[HOF]

Mike just shared photos of the band all together sans James during Rena Petrucci's birthday party this weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/898673188294020/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

Saturday night I went from arriving on my flight home from Japan straight over to Brooklyn where I met up with the whole DT family to celebrate Rena Petrucci's Birthday! 🥳 It was so great seeing everybody and celebrating! This was our first time being together since "The News" last month, so we had a lot to celebrate! 🎉 (just missing James and Karen who were back home in Canada)

[pg1067]

So...far left is JR's wife?  She didn't get the all-black memo?   

[HOF]

So...far left is JR's wife?  She didn't get the all-black memo?   

JM didn't get the beard memo either.

[Zydar]

Great pics!

[nobloodyname]

Great to see JM not breaking character in either of those snaps

[gzarruk]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

Yes. I mean, I get it, the other guys are not very good or care about their online presence that much, but Mike P has this way of making things just about him:

"Just listened to this band's new album and it's great! Remember when I took them on tour? Oh and I played this show with the guitar player and did this project with the bass player. I always believed in them". You get the idea.

A few weeks ago, when Charlie passed, Mike made a post with his thoughts and some pictures, well... DT's page made the same exact post. I remember reading a comment somewhere saying something like "Wow, Mike has been back in the band for a few weeks only and he's already managing their social media posts"

[Stadler]

Fired up for that.  Love it.

[porcacultor]

What a wonderful life we have when MP being present (either making himself known or being the topic of discussions) is some kind of a problem.

[nobloodyname]

Yeah. Some posters here just love to stir shit up around MP.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i want mike portnoy to be my godfather

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah. Some posters here just love to stir shit up around MP.

[OpenYourEyes311]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I'll respond anyway. The list I had posted refers to the songs that they haven't played since MM joined the band. Meaning, they haven't played these songs in a while and it would be cool if we heard these instead of the songs we've heard already this past decade. These would be the same songs I would want them to focus on if Mangini was still in the band.

[Dedalus]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

Yes. I mean, I get it, the other guys are not very good or care about their online presence that much, but Mike P has this way of making things just about him:

"Just listened to this band's new album and it's great! Remember when I took them on tour? Oh and I played this show with the guitar player and did this project with the bass player. I always believed in them". You get the idea.

A few weeks ago, when Charlie passed, Mike made a post with his thoughts and some pictures, well... DT's page made the same exact post. I remember reading a comment somewhere saying something like "Wow, Mike has been back in the band for a few weeks only and he's already managing their social media posts"

Yes, you are completely correct.

The main problem with this is not MP, the individual. The problem is the semi-religious veneration that the world around DT has had for him since at least the 2000s. It seems like a cult... (just read some comments and see how some are quite uncomfortable with a more critical view).

And I don't think it's even his "fault". It was kind of a side effect. And it helped a lot in this process that the other guys were very bad at interacting online with the public, while MP is excellent at it. He's the guy who talks to us. He's the guy who pays attention to us. And we want that. He's so absurdly charismatic and capable of sweeping people into a form of adoration that I'm extremely happy he's a rock drummer and not someone with intentions of taking a group to Guyana. 

And our entire discussion inevitably revolves around this. We don't have a pre-JR and post-JR era. This is not recurrent in our discussions, although JR's impact on DT is immense. But we have an MP era and an MM era (which actually means, an era where he was absent). And so it is.

[Dedalus]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I'll respond anyway. The list I had posted refers to the songs that they haven't played since MM joined the band. Meaning, they haven't played these songs in a while and it would be cool if we heard these instead of the songs we've heard already this past decade. These would be the same songs I would want them to focus on if Mangini was still in the band.

It wasn't specifically targeted. In fact, your list was really cool.

I also think it would be interesting for them to choose songs from the first ten albums that haven't been given attention recently. It would be something cool, and it would reinvigorate the setlists (since it seems to be important to re-oxygenate the shows). And that includes I&W and SFAM. Obviously they are classics of the band, they would hardly be completely left aside. But it would be a good idea to play as little of them as possible on the next tour, as the band has explored them a lot recently (but I can already hear the screams... oh, but not with MP on the drum stool).

[Stadler]

My problem with the presence of MP in DT is that in a way it stops being Dream Theater and becomes The Allmight Mike Portnoy + four cool guys.

Now we are already thinking about "songs that the band has already played" and "songs that the band has already played (but without MP)". 

The band didn't break up while he was recording an album a week. OK, Portnoy was out, but that's his problem, no one told him to leave the band.

Yes. I mean, I get it, the other guys are not very good or care about their online presence that much, but Mike P has this way of making things just about him:

"Just listened to this band's new album and it's great! Remember when I took them on tour? Oh and I played this show with the guitar player and did this project with the bass player. I always believed in them". You get the idea.

A few weeks ago, when Charlie passed, Mike made a post with his thoughts and some pictures, well... DT's page made the same exact post. I remember reading a comment somewhere saying something like "Wow, Mike has been back in the band for a few weeks only and he's already managing their social media posts"

Yes, you are completely correct.

The main problem with this is not MP, the individual. The problem is the semi-religious veneration that the world around DT has had for him since at least the 2000s. It seems like a cult... (just read some comments and see how some are quite uncomfortable with a more critical view).

And I don't think it's even his "fault". It was kind of a side effect. And it helped a lot in this process that the other guys were very bad at interacting online with the public, while MP is excellent at it. He's the guy who talks to us. He's the guy who pays attention to us. And we want that. He's so absurdly charismatic and capable of sweeping people into a form of adoration that I'm extremely happy he's a rock drummer and not someone with intentions of taking a group to Guyana. 

And our entire discussion inevitably revolves around this. We don't have a pre-JR and post-JR era. This is not recurrent in our discussions, although JR's impact on DT is immense. But we have an MP era and an MM era (which actually means, an era where he was absent). And so it is.

I don't disagree vehemently - don't like the "c-" word, but still - but the last part isn't really apples to apples. He's one of the three, the trinity, that has been there from day one and persevered, at least up to a point.   Kevin would be in that group, too, but he bailed early.   There's no "pre-JR" and "post-JR" because he's not the first.  Hell, he's not even the SECOND.  And CONCENSUS, there's a JR record and a non-JR record in the discussion for "best DT record".   There's no MM record in that pantheon, at least not across the entire fanbase.  We did that list here not that long ago.

[Dedalus]

I don't disagree vehemently - don't like the "c-" word, but still - but the last part isn't really apples to apples. He's one of the three, the trinity, that has been there from day one and persevered, at least up to a point.   Kevin would be in that group, too, but he bailed early.   There's no "pre-JR" and "post-JR" because he's not the first.  Hell, he's not even the SECOND.  And CONCENSUS, there's a JR record and a non-JR record in the discussion for "best DT record".   There's no MM record in that pantheon, at least not across the entire fanbase.  We did that list here not that long ago.

Yes, I agree that it is an important point.

But if, when we want to discuss DT's sound, the band's paths, choices etc. You can't ignore JR's impact on Dream Theater.

I believe that if it is possible to establish a trio of classic albums that many fans would not object to, that trio would be I&W, Awake and SFAM (although I myself am not that fond of Awake, but that's okay). I find it quite symptomatic that two of these albums are with KM and the other is the FIRST album with JR.

I'm not trying to say that JR ruined DT, that's not the way of reasoning.

But it is undeniable that after him the band changed. And although he's been on some great albums, none of them are a huge consensus, except the first one.

I have rarely seen a discussion like this. On the other hand, how many times have I seen the following theoretical path "Dream Theater was a badass band, MP left the band and they became shit. The end"? At least hundreds of times? There is an absurd discrepancy in my opinion. That's what I'm referring to.

Edit: The idea of the trinity is interesting, but let's be honest. It is not really a trinity, not in the sense that the three entities occupy equal roles. If JM says "guys, I'm tired.... carry on without me" there won't be a JM era and post-JM era.

[OpenYourEyes311]

I would say albums 6-9 have a pretty good reputation in the fanbase. Both Six Degrees and Octavarium probably fight for my #1 album over Images (close) and Scenes (not close).

But I also totally see Pre-JR and Post-JR eras of the band. There's a handful of songs from WDADU and FII that have been played between zero and one time with Jordan, and I would have to imagine it's that no one in the band is particularly keen on playing much from those albums, especially the guy who wasn't present.

[Ben_Jamin]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

[TAC]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

I think that's a factor.

[Dedalus]

I would say albums 6-9 have a pretty good reputation in the fanbase. Both Six Degrees and Octavarium probably fight for my #1 album over Images (close) and Scenes (not close).

But I also totally see Pre-JR and Post-JR eras of the band. There's a handful of songs from WDADU and FII that have been played between zero and one time with Jordan, and I would have to imagine it's that no one in the band is particularly keen on playing much from those albums, especially the guy who wasn't present.

Seriously? Train of thought? Systematic chaos? There are certainly those who like them, but it is impossible to say that they are at the top of their reputation.
It is also not possible to say that Octavarium is a consensus.

Six Degrees is an interesting album. You rarely see anyone speaking badly of it. But it's almost never fully remembered by more casual fans of the band than those I've mentioned. (Personally, one of my favorites  ).

[Ben_Jamin]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

I think that's a factor.

It's a major factor pretty much everyone is ignoring.

[OpenYourEyes311]

I would say albums 6-9 have a pretty good reputation in the fanbase. Both Six Degrees and Octavarium probably fight for my #1 album over Images (close) and Scenes (not close).

But I also totally see Pre-JR and Post-JR eras of the band. There's a handful of songs from WDADU and FII that have been played between zero and one time with Jordan, and I would have to imagine it's that no one in the band is particularly keen on playing much from those albums, especially the guy who wasn't present.

Seriously? Train of thought? Systematic chaos? There are certainly those who like them, but it is impossible to say that they are at the top of their reputation.
It is also not possible to say that Octavarium is a consensus.

Six Degrees is an interesting album. You rarely see anyone speaking badly of it. But it's almost never fully remembered by more casual fans of the band than those I've mentioned. (Personally, one of my favorites  ).

Oops, I mistyped. Meant 6-8. Systematic Chaos is definitely not up there. I've definitely heard the other three is discussions of the best. But it's all personal choice, honestly.

[MarkFitDT]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

I think that's a factor.

It's a major factor pretty much everyone is ignoring.

Its a massive factor imo and was for me when i was deliberating whether or not to see them in February. I eventually did and enjoyed it - and Mangini was the star of the show for me   - but two things would potentially stop me seeing them again and neither of them were Mangini or the click track. Cost would be a factor again and im afraid James was really poor - a common theme on the last tour it seems - and taking into account how much it cost I think I would wait to buy a ticket until the next tour has started and see what the feedback was about how he was performing.

[Madman Shepherd]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

Rotating setlists or not, I think a lot fewer people are going to go to multiple shows for this very reason. When I first saw them in 2000, my ticket was 20 bucks. That same ticket goes for 70 now. Inflation plays a role but not a 50 dollar difference role.

Btw, this is not a DT thing. Pretty much every band at their level has increased prices to this figure.

[KevShmev]

I agree that higher ticket prices didn't help, and I think another factor is that seemingly everyone was touring post-pandemic, so you had to fight for fans, many of whom could not afford to go to every concert they wanted. 

[Kyo]

Its a massive factor imo and was for me when i was deliberating whether or not to see them in February. I eventually did and enjoyed it - and Mangini was the star of the show for me   - but two things would potentially stop me seeing them again and neither of them were Mangini or the click track. Cost would be a factor again and im afraid James was really poor - a common theme on the last tour it seems - and taking into account how much it cost I think I would wait to buy a ticket until the next tour has started and see what the feedback was about how he was performing.

Yeah, absolutely. These were the main factors for me for a few years now. The combination of 80 Euro tickets and significantly less than stellar performances by James were often a deal breaker. It says a lot that I couldn't get excited about seeing them perform two of my favorite albums - I&W and SfaM - because I'd seen enough live footage from the tours to know that the live vocals were going to be a problem for me. I had seen all of these songs live earlier and these were going to be worse performances than before. For twice the price.

So in the end, only new material had a chance to draw me to a gig because I hadn't seen those songs live before and it didn't seem likely the chance would return (even before Portnoy returned). And of course the more recent vocal parts were also in a more comfortable range for James.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Thank you to OpenYourEyes for consolidating a list of songs that have not been played since MP's departure.  Very interesting to review.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm not gonna undermine the discussion about the MP vs post-MP era, which I think is totally valid, but we did talk about "songs the band hasn't already played" and "songs the band has played but MM hasn't played yet" around every tour and we did weigh them higher in consideration which songs they should play. When you take into account that MP is the setlist guy and a completionist and a planner, yeah, he's gonna wanna play songs he hasn't played yet, and we're not talking about that because he's overshadowing the band already, but because it's a given.

[cramx3]

So....

How would you say people would go to more shows if the ticket price felt more reasonable?

Rotating setlists or not, I think a lot fewer people are going to go to multiple shows for this very reason. When I first saw them in 2000, my ticket was 20 bucks. That same ticket goes for 70 now. Inflation plays a role but not a 50 dollar difference role.

Btw, this is not a DT thing. Pretty much every band at their level has increased prices to this figure.

Yeah, while it's not a DT thing, DT tickets are still a bit more expensive than other metal bands playing the same venues.  The dreamsonic tour was a bit stupid in pricing for the larger venues IMO.  I can't say for sure how much this impacted sales, but I'd bet a lot of money it had some impact.  JLB struggles and DT not doing an evening with set and not touring a new album (being a second A View tour), also probably added to poor sales.

I agree that higher ticket prices didn't help, and I think another factor is that seemingly everyone was touring post-pandemic, so you had to fight for fans, many of whom could not afford to go to every concert they wanted. 

I think lots of bands touring also played a role.  The last two years had a crazy amount of concerts happening on the same day forcing me, and likely others, to make a decision on which show to attend.  Dreamsonic happened during the summer when there's even more tours.  I'm sure some people had to make decisions on which show they wanted to see maybe not just due to price, but competition amongst other touring bands.