DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[RodrigoAltaf]

One other point.  does anyone know - facts, not guesses - whether there any material from the JP solo sessions or the LTE sessions that could be adapted for a Dream Theater release in the interim?  A song, or an EP or something?

I don't know anything for a fact.  But I would be surprised if any such material would be brought in by JP/MP to craft material for DT.  The three projects (DT/LTE/JP solo) are all very different, and I would hope they keep that in mind.

I don't have a timestamp...but in this interview I did with JP, he mentioned writing something for his solo album and eventually realizing he was playing something from DT's back catalogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaGSbh0wuGY

[gzarruk]

I echo what some have said here about capitalizing on the announcement. Mike P has tour dates booked solid untill very late November + a couple appearances in December and January, so no studio time untill February at the earliest for them. He's also scheduled for Cruise to the Edge for a few days in March.

Hypothetically let's say the album is ready around April/May-ish, then there's at least 3 more months for marketing, promotions and whatever so, best case scenario, is going to be almost a year from now up until we have new music out. Doing a short tour before that and announcing it ASAP would be the best for them to keep the momentum going. Maybe they had to make the announcement to test the waters and see how many promoters bite without a new album in the works yet?

[Stadler]

One other point.  does anyone know - facts, not guesses - whether there any material from the JP solo sessions or the LTE sessions that could be adapted for a Dream Theater release in the interim?  A song, or an EP or something?

I don't know anything for a fact.  But I would be surprised if any such material would be brought in by JP/MP to craft material for DT.  The three projects (DT/LTE/JP solo) are all very different, and I would hope they keep that in mind.

I don't have a timestamp...but in this interview I did with JP, he mentioned writing something for his solo album and eventually realizing he was playing something from DT's back catalogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaGSbh0wuGY

That's actually kind of funny. 

[Sycsa]

I think it may have been better to save this announcement for when the new album was done or a tour like others have suggested.

Keeping the secret that long likely wouldn't of been possible.  Although I do wonder, why yesterday?  Some here suggested maybe the cat was starting to come out of the bag already so better to just make the announcement than let rumors swirl.  No idea if that's true, but I can't see MP going to the DT studio for some time in the next year and MP not actively touring or working on anything and not have people know what's going on.

Well, the Seahawks spoiled it last month already...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/16rccqo/portnoy_at_the_seahawks_game_today/

[cramx3]

I think it may have been better to save this announcement for when the new album was done or a tour like others have suggested.

Keeping the secret that long likely wouldn't of been possible.  Although I do wonder, why yesterday?  Some here suggested maybe the cat was starting to come out of the bag already so better to just make the announcement than let rumors swirl.  No idea if that's true, but I can't see MP going to the DT studio for some time in the next year and MP not actively touring or working on anything and not have people know what's going on.

Well, the Seahawks spoiled it last month already...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/16rccqo/portnoy_at_the_seahawks_game_today/

more evidence to the seattle conspiracy

[BlobVanDam]

Aw you guys 

Reaper forced me here

Well I'll be dammed. BlobVanDammed.

Oh hi!

One other point.  does anyone know - facts, not guesses - whether there any material from the JP solo sessions or the LTE sessions that could be adapted for a Dream Theater release in the interim?  A song, or an EP or something?

I don't know anything for a fact.  But I would be surprised if any such material would be brought in by JP/MP to craft material for DT.  The three projects (DT/LTE/JP solo) are all very different, and I would hope they keep that in mind.

I don't have a timestamp...but in this interview I did with JP, he mentioned writing something for his solo album and eventually realizing he was playing something from DT's back catalogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaGSbh0wuGY

It's at 8:40. That's funny, but worrying as a songwriter   

[Stadler]

I think it may have been better to save this announcement for when the new album was done or a tour like others have suggested.

Keeping the secret that long likely wouldn't of been possible.  Although I do wonder, why yesterday?  Some here suggested maybe the cat was starting to come out of the bag already so better to just make the announcement than let rumors swirl.  No idea if that's true, but I can't see MP going to the DT studio for some time in the next year and MP not actively touring or working on anything and not have people know what's going on.

Well, the Seahawks spoiled it last month already...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/16rccqo/portnoy_at_the_seahawks_game_today/

more evidence to the seattle conspiracy

Wouldn't that be a gas if it wasn't an inept mistake, but actually prescient?  Or better yet, an Easter egg?

[cramx3]

I think it may have been better to save this announcement for when the new album was done or a tour like others have suggested.

Keeping the secret that long likely wouldn't of been possible.  Although I do wonder, why yesterday?  Some here suggested maybe the cat was starting to come out of the bag already so better to just make the announcement than let rumors swirl.  No idea if that's true, but I can't see MP going to the DT studio for some time in the next year and MP not actively touring or working on anything and not have people know what's going on.

Well, the Seahawks spoiled it last month already...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/16rccqo/portnoy_at_the_seahawks_game_today/

more evidence to the seattle conspiracy

Wouldn't that be a gas if it wasn't an inept mistake, but actually prescient?  Or better yet, an Easter egg?

More evidence the NFL is scripted

[Anguyen92]

I'm sure people looked at that, at the time, and go, "Well, I don't expect the NFL to know whose in Dream Theater nowadays."  I'm not sure if this was actually deliberate on the broadcast end or if they willed it to reality.

[King Postwhore]

I still remember how upset I was when Mike had the press release leaving Dream Theater.  This forum was going bananas.

[HOF]

I don't see any particular benefit for keeping this under wraps for another 6-8 months while they make and release an album. The anticipation for the new album will be massive, and I'm sure they can find ways to keep the fans engaged during the writing/recording process. That was always a fun part of following DT in the old days. You'd get little updates from the studio, pictures of charts, etc. that built anticipation. Plus, this has happened before. I remember Jordan being announced as the new keyboardist well in advance of SFAM (some time in 1998 I believe). There was a ton of anticipation for that release.

[Polarbear]

Some more random thoughts after 24 hours:

Great to see some old faces here in the forums! I don't remember seeing this kind of excitement on DTF in years. I was barely out of my teenage years when I joined the forum, and soon after MP left the band. During these years my musical tastes have shifted wildly, and I have barely listened to DT during the past year. I stayed on this forum, because there is so much more to discuss than just DT here. So happy to see the DT side of the forum explode!

After the news yesterday I had to listen some of my old favorites from DT. I don't even listen to a lot of prog music nowadays. I feel reinvigorated as a fan. Much more excited for the next DT record than I was before. Here's hoping for a European tour soon, and a Finland date. My dad took me to see DT during the Systematic Chaos tour, and I'd love to return the favor to him. I'd love to see the band with Portnoy at least once more.

[Bluefish]

I wonder if and when the story will come out

I mean, the story is pretty obvious, no

In terms of what was written in the official statement, yes.  But why now?  If the reasons are financial, how long has this been a problem?  Did it start immediately?  Did The Astonishing contribute to the problem?  (I know a lot of people love that album, but there are also a lot that don't.)  Every band was impacted by the Covid shutdown and the financial risks of touring since then.  The smaller the band, the greater the impact and risk.

These are honest questions.  I don't know the answers.

Those are great questions. I think we have enough information to infer most of the answers. It is possible that MM himself did not get the full answer but if the last 2 tours were as poorly attended as people say, then that is a good indicator of what motivated this decision. I watched a good documentary called Hired Gun - it's about exactly what it sounds like. This is just how these things go sometimes. Out of nowhere seemingly, the captain decides to steer the ship in another direction. Sometimes it is personal, or drugs, or a tragedy in someone's life, but a lot of the times it just comes down to the business aspect.

I attended multiple shows on each the last three tours including Dreamsonic.  I usually have good seats and didn't notice how well attended they were.
It would be a shame if the last couple of tours were indeed poorly attended and they feel that they need to change the musical direction from what they've done on the last couple of albums.  I love Distance Over Time and A View From The Top Of The World.

[Bluefish]

Mangini is no longer in the band, and it was the bands decision to rehire Mike Portnoy at this time, and subsequently also follows that Mangini had to go. Regardless of whether this happened with Mangini resigning or them letting him go, is a pure technicality at this point. The decision order was that the band decided to get Portnoy back, and that left Mangini without a job.

I'm sure Mangini will have plenty of work.  I don't know if it will be as good as the Dream Theater gig.

[Bluefish]

Wow, what an absolute lovely post from MM under MP's post. He could have just said nothing, but he congratulated him. He's basically the reason why I'm not 100% happy with the reunion - the fact that such a gentleman and a world class drummer had to go!

About James' comments about "this is the final line-up", yesterday at home I didn't double check, but I'm damn sure that in the Mullmuzzler booklet (his first album of 1999) he welcomed Jordan in the band calling it "hopefully the last member change ever" 

Mangini is a class guy.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I don't normally post in this section of the forum, but events like this really shake everything loose.  I haven't had time to finish skimming this thread yet, but this caught my eye. 

but with the most metal guy of the five back in the band

Are we sure about this?  JR seems the least into metal, but I'd argue based on Static Impulse and Impermanent Resonance that it could be James, there's harder-edged material there than DT ever gets to.  MP has spent so much time with non-metal projects (TA, TWD, FC, NMB, etc.) that I think you could say he's even a bit less into metal than JP.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Wow, what an absolute lovely post from MM under MP's post. He could have just said nothing, but he congratulated him. He's basically the reason why I'm not 100% happy with the reunion - the fact that such a gentleman and a world class drummer had to go!

About James' comments about "this is the final line-up", yesterday at home I didn't double check, but I'm damn sure that in the Mullmuzzler booklet (his first album of 1999) he welcomed Jordan in the band calling it "hopefully the last member change ever" 

Mangini is a class guy.

Don't ask me for the link, but I seem to remember JLB also saying the lineup with Mangini would be the last one.

[Lonk]

Going back and reading the responses from 13 years ago feels similar to what happened yesterday

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.0

[hefdaddy42]

I don't normally post in this section of the forum, but events like this really shake everything loose.  I haven't had time to finish skimming this thread yet, but this caught my eye. 

but with the most metal guy of the five back in the band

Are we sure about this?  JR seems the least into metal, but I'd argue based on Static Impulse and Impermanent Resonance that it could be James, there's harder-edged material there than DT ever gets to.  MP has spent so much time with non-metal projects (TA, TWD, FC, NMB, etc.) that I think you could say he's even a bit less into metal than JP.

Good point.

[TAC]

The decision order was that the band decided to get Portnoy back, and that left Mangini without a job.

This.

[Bluefish]

One thing I was thinking about last night. The news breaks yesterday and by and large there is joy in the fanbase (not absolutely everyone, and largely not without due respect for Mr. Mangini). The band has received a shot in the arm in terms of attention/enthusiasm, and they're going to capitalize on that by... eventually releasing new music and going on tour? MP is on tour with the Winery Dogs through Thanksgiving week. He gets home from Japan and they'd maybe have a couple weeks to get together and write before the holidays. Best case scenario is maybe there's a new album written and recorded by sometime in February? Then wait for it to get mixed and mastered and into the elongated album release cycle waiting for vinyl pressing and whatnot. If they wait to tour behind the new album then there might not be anything tangible in terms of new music or shows with Portnoy back in the drummer's stool before August or September of 2024, almost a year from the announcement. Just seems like a waste in some ways. If it were me I would have had as part of yesterday's announcement something to the effect of "We're obviously excited to get into the studio and record new music together, but we don't want to wait that long to play music together in front of all of you" and drop some tour dates for the first half of 2024. You don't need new music to sell the first tour with Portnoy back in the band.

Isn't that what Maiden did? The Ed Hunter tour?

Yes.  But they were still putting albums out at a pretty brisk pace.  Virtual XI was released in 1998.  Bruce and Adrian rejoined Maiden and the band embarked on the Ed Hunter Tour in 1999.  Brave New World was released in 2000 with a an ensuing tour that same year.  At this point in Dream Theater's career if they do a reunion tour, particularly a world tour, that will probably push a new album back for some time.

[Bluefish]

Wow, what an absolute lovely post from MM under MP's post. He could have just said nothing, but he congratulated him. He's basically the reason why I'm not 100% happy with the reunion - the fact that such a gentleman and a world class drummer had to go!

About James' comments about "this is the final line-up", yesterday at home I didn't double check, but I'm damn sure that in the Mullmuzzler booklet (his first album of 1999) he welcomed Jordan in the band calling it "hopefully the last member change ever" 

Mangini is a class guy.

Don't ask me for the link, but I seem to remember JLB also saying the lineup with Mangini would be the last one.

I remember it well.  It was an excerpt from an interview I read on blabbermouth.net.  The quote was something to the affect of him seeing Mangini being in the band the rest of the way.

[hefdaddy42]

Going back and reading the responses from 13 years ago feels similar to what happened yesterday

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.0

I like how I didn't roll through until page 16.  On my birthday.

[DTiwbwMP]

One thing I was thinking about last night. The news breaks yesterday and by and lrge there is joy in the fanbase (not absolutely everyone, and largely not without due respect for Mr. Mangini). The band has received a shot in the arm in terms of attention/enthusiasm, and they're going to capitalize on that by... eventually releasing new music and going on tour? MP is on tour with the Winery Dogs through Thanksgiving week. He gets home from Japan and they'd maybe have a couple weeks to get together and write before the holidays. Best case scenario is maybe there's a new album written and recorded by sometime in February? Then wait for it to get mixed and mastered and into the elongated album release cycle waiting for vinyl pressing and whatnot. If they wait to tour behind the new album then there might not be anything tangible in terms of new music or shows with Portnoy back in the drummer's stool before August or September of 2024, almost a year from the announcement. Just seems like a waste in some ways. If it were me I would have had as part of yesterday's announcement something to the effect of "We're obviously excited to get into the studio and record new music together, but we don't want to wait that long to play music together in front of all of you" and drop some tour dates for the first half of 2024. You don't need new music to sell the first tour with Portnoy back in the band.

EXACTLY, that's why I think there's more to come!

[Bluefish]

I think it may have been better to save this announcement for when the new album was done or a tour like others have suggested.

Keeping the secret that long likely wouldn't of been possible.  Although I do wonder, why yesterday?  Some here suggested maybe the cat was starting to come out of the bag already so better to just make the announcement than let rumors swirl.  No idea if that's true, but I can't see MP going to the DT studio for some time in the next year and MP not actively touring or working on anything and not have people know what's going on.

Once it happens, it happens. You can keep it close to your chest only for so long, also out of respect for the replaced member.

DT have already said they were going into the studio in the latter part of the year. How long can they ask Mangini to "lie" for a band he isn't part of anymore? (see the interview with Rodrigo).

The talks can go on for months, but once the decision is made, it's not fair to ask the member that goes to keep a secret, and the more you keep a secret, the more people are bound to find out. All it takes is one guy spotting MP near the studio.

Iron Maiden have kept "secrets" for the better part of a year at times.  AC/DC and Van Halen as well, though to be fair, they've all took shit for it.  That's not how DT operates, for better or worse, but it CAN be done.

And Symphony X goes into witness protection for seven years between each release.

[DoctorAction]

I think my main observation is this:

The key ingredient of top-grade Dream Theater is the magic combination of Mike and John (with James' voice on top). Without them together it isn't quite as good. So happy days to MP coming back.

I really like Dramatic, Distance and View but MM obviously wasn't one of the dominating forces in the band so that leaves it as JP, which is good - he's JP ferchrissake - but without the arrangement input, swagger, beef and varied influences of Mike it doesn't quite make the very top grade.

And Mike's other projects are really patchy - sometimes really good but often dross. He really benefits from John's sense of taste and class and without it can get crass and obvious.

So to create that top-level magic, I think they need each other, basically. So happy days. Excited!

[JustJen]

Going back and reading the responses from 13 years ago feels similar to what happened yesterday

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.0

I like how I didn't roll through until page 16.  On my birthday.

I scrolled the first  16 pages to see if I was in there any sooner but apparently not. Guess I was too busy bitching elsewhere probably.

Edit - I posted on page 27, and it makes zero sense. wtf did I mean? I said "Epic. I would expect nothing less from DT."

? lmao

Edit 2 - ah, ok. Looks like I heard from axeman, which I had forgotten.

no, I'm still here. been taking this all in since axeman told me about it yesterday.

i don't like change too much so this upsets me for that reason. however, BC&SL felt like it might be the precursor to a huge change, so this almost feels like the shoe finally dropped. that in itself is sort of a relief at least.

i quite regret only seeing dt a couple of times in the years that i've been a fan. but it's not like the music we've got is going anyplace... and thankfully it wasn't a band member's death that ended this band. there's always room for a reunion tour this way at least.

i suppose.

I must have been quite upset to be so calm and passive agressive LOL. oh boy.

[cramx3]

Going back and reading the responses from 13 years ago feels similar to what happened yesterday

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.0

I like how I didn't roll through until page 16.  On my birthday.

I scrolled the first  16 pages to see if I was in there any sooner but apparently not. Guess I was too busy bitching elsewhere probably.

Page 29 for me with an admittance to not knowing until very late  I actually still mostly agree with my initial opinion, all about the money.  I also think this move has a lot to do with money too. And once again, I don't blame the people for making the decisions that are best for them. I think yesterday (and even continuing today) reactions here and on social media prove that this was a big bang decision that will likely lead to more money generated by the band.

[Fonzie]

I'm really keen to see MP drum his way through TA with the added bonus of his vocal talent to flesh out some of the character stuff.
Stoked.

[Evermind]

I'm really keen to see MP drum his way through TA with the added bonus of his vocal talent to flesh out some of the character stuff.
Stoked.

Take the evening to decide
Roar

[hefdaddy42]

I'm really keen to see MP drum his way through TA with the added bonus of his vocal talent to flesh out some of the character stuff.
Stoked.

I'll take "Things That Will Never Ever Happen" for $500, Ken!

[cramx3]

I'm really keen to see MP drum his way through TA with the added bonus of his vocal talent to flesh out some of the character stuff.
Stoked.

Sadly (for me), I doubt we ever get TA songs live again. I know most people didn't like the album, but there were certainly songs/sections that were worthy of being played live outside of the full album setting (and I know a few were before being dropped on one tour since TA).  I can see MP playing some MM songs, but just not these.

[hefdaddy42]

I seriously doubt we will get a full performance ever of The Astonishing, but I honestly had the impression that Mangini was a little bored with it, and was just being a pro and a good teammate.  Portnoy may like drumming that stuff better than Mangini did lol.

[deggs37]

I have to imagine the news was about to leak and that's why they went ahead and announced MP rejoining. Would have been a much better business decision to announce that while dropping new album pre orders and announcing a new tour to generate sales. I was hyped enough yesterday I wanted to pre-order the new album. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Plus with the silly photoshopped group pic, I don't think they were ready yet.

[Mosh]

One thing I was thinking about last night. The news breaks yesterday and by and large there is joy in the fanbase (not absolutely everyone, and largely not without due respect for Mr. Mangini). The band has received a shot in the arm in terms of attention/enthusiasm, and they're going to capitalize on that by... eventually releasing new music and going on tour? MP is on tour with the Winery Dogs through Thanksgiving week. He gets home from Japan and they'd maybe have a couple weeks to get together and write before the holidays. Best case scenario is maybe there's a new album written and recorded by sometime in February? Then wait for it to get mixed and mastered and into the elongated album release cycle waiting for vinyl pressing and whatnot. If they wait to tour behind the new album then there might not be anything tangible in terms of new music or shows with Portnoy back in the drummer's stool before August or September of 2024, almost a year from the announcement. Just seems like a waste in some ways. If it were me I would have had as part of yesterday's announcement something to the effect of "We're obviously excited to get into the studio and record new music together, but we don't want to wait that long to play music together in front of all of you" and drop some tour dates for the first half of 2024. You don't need new music to sell the first tour with Portnoy back in the band.

Isn't that what Maiden did? The Ed Hunter tour?

Yes.  But they were still putting albums out at a pretty brisk pace.  Virtual XI was released in 1998.  Bruce and Adrian rejoined Maiden and the band embarked on the Ed Hunter Tour in 1999.  Brave New World was released in 2000 with a an ensuing tour that same year.  At this point in Dream Theater's career if they do a reunion tour, particularly a world tour, that will probably push a new album back for some time.

I think it's doable if they approach it the way they approached ADTOE. It sounds like based on scheduling the album is not going to get finished until close to summer, at which point they will need months of promotion which pushes the release to around September/October. That leaves the Summer open for a "comeback" tour and also allows the new album tour to coincide with the 40th anniversary which gives them the opportunity to tour the new album "Octavarium style."