DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[TAC]

He might be rehearsing songs for the upcoming tour. Those Mangini-era songs aren't gonna learn themselves. 

 

[KevShmev]

I actually would love to hear what he can do with Outcry, Breaking All Illusions, and Answering the Call...

I hadn't heard Outcry in a while, but I gave ADTOE a few spins last week and was reminded of how damn good that song is.

And that is the tragedy of the songs from the Mangini era.  It felt like most of the songs from those albums got the "one tour and done" treatment (and in some cases, no tour), and the likelihood of most of them ever seeing the light of day in the live sets going forward is probably not good.

[Mladen]

Outcry is due for a comeback. 

[crystalstars17]

And that is the tragedy of the songs from the Mangini era.  It felt like most of the songs from those albums got the "one tour and done" treatment (and in some cases, no tour), and the likelihood of most of them ever seeing the light of day in the live sets going forward is probably not good.

This makes me sad. 

[Adami]

Outcry is fantastic.


Except for the lyrics, but I hate those for personal reasons.

Still, would love to see what they do with it with MP.

[BlackInk]

Outcry is definetely a highlight of ADToE, would be cool to see it with Portnoy.

I have also long had issues with the lyrics, but overall the song itself is cool.

[crystalstars17]

Outcry is definetely a highlight of ADToE, would be cool to see it with Portnoy.

I have also long had issues with the lyrics, but overall the song itself is cool.

Indeed, it's all about the music! 🎶

But the lyrics, well.. I tend to take lyrics sometimes out of context and, for example, set the story of the song in some epic fantasy world. But that's not at all to minimize what it's really about (and I do this with other songs, too), I just have the kind of brain that thinks outside of reality a little too readily and a little too often, so... 🧚✨

[El Barto]

When MP was in the band before, they had a light guy that knew all the songs and manually did the lights.  And it worked fine.  Any "upgrade" that came with that part of by timing everything to the click was essentially lost on me, because I wasn't going to see DT for lights.  But they've done it before, and other, bigger acts can do it, so there's no reason they can't do it again.

That guy was awesome. We sat directly behind him when they opened for Maiden, and he was more into the show than the band was. Working lights for a band like DT is going to be a challenge, but he was really into the music and seemed to be having the time of his life. In contrast, Maiden came on the their LD would just hit start before every song.

[hefdaddy42]

That guy was awesome. We sat directly behind him when they opened for Maiden, and he was more into the show than the band was. Working lights for a band like DT is going to be a challenge, but he was really into the music and seemed to be having the time of his life. In contrast, Maiden came on the their LD would just hit start before every song.

Nice!

[brakkum]

That guy was awesome. We sat directly behind him when they opened for Maiden, and he was more into the show than the band was. Working lights for a band like DT is going to be a challenge, but he was really into the music and seemed to be having the time of his life. In contrast, Maiden came on the their LD would just hit start before every song.

Honestly that sounds like a really fun gig

[cramx3]

That guy was awesome. We sat directly behind him when they opened for Maiden, and he was more into the show than the band was. Working lights for a band like DT is going to be a challenge, but he was really into the music and seemed to be having the time of his life. In contrast, Maiden came on the their LD would just hit start before every song.

Interesting, I also thought the Maiden light guy was manual similar to your description of the former DT guy (although Id guess the IM LD might not be as into it). 

[El Barto]

Interesting, I also thought the Maiden light guy was manual similar to your description of the former DT guy (although Id guess the IM LD might not be as into it). 

Maiden's LD wasn't doing anything during the songs, except monitoring. They may have reverted back to manual on later tours, but given the increasing complexity of their stage design I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe that was their first tour with it automated. Dunno.

And DT's LD was "Scott Ian" level into the music. Or more precisely, into his job. After one song he pumped his fist in recognition of a job well done, along with what I would assume was a "fuck yeah!"

[brakkum]

After one song he pumped his fist in recognition of a job well done, along with what I would assume was a "fuck yeah!"

That's exactly the kind of person you want running such an intense light show, that's awesome

[cramx3]

That's exactly the kind of person you want running such an intense light show, that's awesome

Id like if even some bands (not being specific here, just in general) also showed such enthusiasm.

[CodyWanKenobi]

A church asked me to fill in for bass one time, and they used a click. I had never done so and it made me feel weird about playing as it clicked on. It didn't feel authentic to me, especially when we had a drummer to keep us together. I am glad I have never done that again.

A lot of groups only utilize the click for the drummer whereas the rest of the band don't hear it.


EDIT:
Sorry, I should have read the subsequent comments as this was already discussed.

[brakkum]

My cover band drummer usually just has a metronome that he visually cues off of for the start of a song, and glances over if he feels like we're straying over the course of a song. Usually works pretty well, and can easily be ignore if the mood calls for it (that said, of course would rather have everyone on a click, but gear is expensive)

[Trav]

I think this video is a pretty good take on the situation. As well as how I feel about the differences between the Portnoy and Mangini albums. I know there were discussions like this in  another thread, but I was trying to keep things on topic.

https://youtu.be/wYMPrb-avJ8?feature=shared

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think this video is a pretty good take on the situation. As well as how I feel about the differences between the Portnoy and Mangini albums. I know there were discussions like this in  another thread, but I was trying to keep things on topic.

https://youtu.be/wYMPrb-avJ8?feature=shared

Pretty good take. I could not identify more with his statement at 7:55-8:35

I don't agree with much of his analysis of the discography and he seemed to be unsure of how much JR was really contributing to the songwriting (seems odd, no?). The one thing that is really missing is a few words on exactly how the drums changed when you get into the MM era. It's really difficult to talk about how the two eras are different and leave out the biggest most obvious thing: the actual drumming! Weird to compare the two and mention everything except that.

[Trav]

You're right, but I don't think that was his point. It seems a few folks here that are really big Mangini fans (perhaps you're one) seem to downplay Portnoy's role with the band, and songwriting. I think that was the point. There is a much bigger difference than just changing drummers.

[TAC]

You're right, but I don't think that was his point. It seems a few folks here that are really big Mangini fans (perhaps you're one) seem to downplay Portnoy's role with the band, and songwriting. I think that was the point. There is a much bigger difference than just changing drummers.

But the only tangible difference is the...drumming. I honestly don't hear any difference in the songwriting.   

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

You're right, but I don't think that was his point. It seems a few folks here that are really big Mangini fans (perhaps you're one) seem to downplay Portnoy's role with the band, and songwriting. I think that was the point. There is a much bigger difference than just changing drummers.

I am not seeing a whole lot of downplaying his role to be honest. First of all, I don't think there are many big Mangini fans on here. There are about 3 or 4 of us for sure but I think we all frequently acknowledge the many contributions he made to the band. If anything I am tending to see the reverse: big MP fans downplaying the contributions MM made to the band or blaming him for not liking the last 5 albums.

By the way I am just as big of a MP fan and probably listen to more of his music than any other drummer. I think I have a more 'human' view of him that others do but I became a fan in the MP era and I will remain one going into the 2nd one.

[Progmaniac1988]

I personally hear a difference in the songwriting. Yeah the drumming is different of course but there just something about the overall music that I'd say is different, the chemistry shifted and I don't mean that as an insult to the Mangini era, it just had its own vibe. Musically I can tell the MM albums apart not just by drumming, if that makes sense. I pretty much can identify with that video on most his points.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

But the only tangible difference is the...drumming. I honestly don't hear any difference in the songwriting. 

This!

The main things these guys are doing is playing the drums! Even if we could say the songwriting is very different between the eras, back to my point on another thread, how can we say it is because of MP and not due to a whole host of other reasons that have to do with the other human beings in this band. It's just almost odd me that their primary functions (playing drums on the music we love!) have been swept aside and we're now talking about things that can't really be directly attributable to one man except in some isolated circumstances where we have verbal/visual evidence.

Unless you think JP or someone else is standing over their drummers directing everything, this is the best most direct incontrovertible evidence of their contributions to DT. 

[TAC]

I personally hear a difference in the songwriting. Yeah the drumming is different of course but there just something about the overall music that I'd say is different, the chemistry shifted and I don't mean that as an insult to the Mangini era, it just had its own vibe. Musically I can tell the MM albums apart not just by drumming, if that makes sense. I pretty much can identify with that video on most his points.

It doesn't have to be an insult to Mangini, no, for sure.

What would you point to as the hallmarks of the pre MM albums as opposed to the MM albums? I mean, besides the drumming, obviously.

[Mosh]

I would argue that the songwriting did not change that much in the Mangini era and, by extension, the drumming also wasn't radically different. Mangini might be more technical in places and there are some techniques he does that Portnoy doesn't, but it's not like he brought a new style of drumming to the band (which is also partially why he got the gig in the first place).

[Dream Team]

It doesn't have to be an insult to Mangini, no, for sure.

What would you point to as the hallmarks of the pre MM albums as opposed to the MM albums? I mean, besides the drumming, obviously.

Great question for the naysayers, and I would posit that it is unanswerable because the songwriting styles of both eras is all over the map and covers the complete spectrum. I would just argue there is less knuckle-headed stuff in the Mangini era.

[DT05]

The Mangini era is all knucklehead lmao what are you talkiing about. The MM albums are able to barely scrape up five listenable songs across ten years of albums. That's embarrassing.

[WilliamMunny]

Great question for the naysayers, and I would posit that it is unanswerable because the songwriting styles of both eras is all over the map and covers the complete spectrum. I would just argue there is less knuckle-headed stuff in the Mangini era.

This is a really fair question, but one that I feel is a pointless exercise (at least for me) to answer.

I have a long-time friend that I've all but avoided talking about music/movies/etc. with because he inevitably circles back to "why?" whenever I toss out an opinion.

I think DT's 6 Degrees is fantastic...yeah, but what are the reasons why?

It gets so tiresome, especially when, for me, the answer is almost always as simple as, "I dunno...I just like it."

When it comes to this MP/MM debate, I think it boils down to this...the albums MP drummed on resonate with me far more than the 5 releases made with MM on the throne. Therefore, I tend to favor MP's era more.

I could write a novel attempting to pick that statement apart and find the 'reasons why,' but at this stage in my life, I prefer to just go with my gut and leave it at that.

Another thing that I think is sometimes lost is that an opinion about one's work is not necessarily a reflection on the artist.

Saying I HATE THE DRUMS ON DT12 does not mean I hate MM...a matter of opinion does not automatically equate to an indictment.

[crystalstars17]

The Mangini era is all knucklehead lmao what are you talkiing about. The MM albums are able to barely scrape up five listenable songs across ten years of albums. That's embarrassing.

That's simply YOUR opinion.

[DT05]

It sure is! 

[nobloodyname]

The Mangini era is all knucklehead lmao what are you talkiing about. The MM albums are able to barely scrape up five listenable songs across ten years of albums. That's embarrassing.

This is just asinine.

I've seen Dream Theater 23 times. And that'll rise to 25 by the end of November. But the vast majority of those came before Mangini joined the band. I didn't bother so much once he joined because, for me, DT's performances became increasingly sterile. Combined with James's worsening performances, I just didn't feel it was money well spent.

But most of the music was absolutely fine. Not much of it moved me in the way music from the MP years did but then my fandom had matured by then. To refer to the entirety of the Mangini years' output as "knucklehead" is absolutely absurd, even accounting for there being nowt as queer as folk.

And the thing is, when you continually talk in that way, all it does is cheapen your argument.

[hefdaddy42]

The Mangini era is all knucklehead lmao what are you talkiing about. 

Knock it the fuck off.  For whatever reason, you don't like the Mangini era.  We get it.

[Stadler]

Great question for the naysayers, and I would posit that it is unanswerable because the songwriting styles of both eras is all over the map and covers the complete spectrum. I would just argue there is less knuckle-headed stuff in the Mangini era.

What exactly is "knucklehead" in this context? 

[Max Kuehnau]

I always thought it might relate to the human hand, but what might I know? (knuckle right?)

[Jamesman42]

The Mangini era is all knucklehead lmao what are you talkiing about. The MM albums are able to barely scrape up five listenable songs across ten years of albums. That's embarrassing.