DT Songs Countdown

[gzarruk]

What about Cry for Freedom, Resurection of Ernie and The School Song?

[Jamesman42]

I know Bombay Vindaloo, Eve, and Raise the Knife (which I do like, especially BV). I don't think I have heard (and never had much motivation to hear) their B-sides or live only songs.

[Setlist Scotty]

I know Bombay Vindaloo, Eve, and Raise the Knife (which I do like, especially BV). I don't think I have heard (and never had much motivation to hear) their B-sides or live only songs.

Even if you were never really motivated, why not do it? You never know what kinda gems you might discover!   

[Wim Kruithof]

Scotty, reading you're posts I really follow what you're saying and am on your train. That there are songs out there I'm not familiar with, should not be a reason another fan can't rank them. Besides, I will surely dive into your Youtube links before the new ranking.

But, I see all the covers of the EP are not included, nor are they from the special Black Clouds & Silver Linings release. I can follow they're not included because they're covers, but... other bands always have inspired Dream Theater and some of them would even make my list, perhaps.

[Setlist Scotty]

Scotty, reading you're posts I really follow what you're saying and am on your train. That there are songs out there I'm not familiar with, should not be a reason another fan can't rank them. Besides, I will surely dive into your Youtube links before the new ranking.

Thanks my friend! Glad you came around to my reasoning.    And if you're not familiar with the Majesty demos or some of the songs that didn't appear on IaW/FII, they are now available on YouTube.

Majesty demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBtwIiUbJdk&list=OLAK5uy_l7Htu8vsqmVCHMDc7zD9CUDrOfObFp1yo

Images and Words demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9PGkaJ77C0&list=OLAK5uy_kT1-SOPQZ4lIWwouPS-mdficSeDD1cxqc

Falling Into Infinity demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUCobA896mU&list=OLAK5uy_l5hTdIRhdTXP8zm558lxjjuGCjdFbLa-8

But, I see all the covers of the EP are not included, nor are they from the special Black Clouds & Silver Linings release. I can follow they're not included because they're covers, but... other bands always have inspired Dream Theater and some of them would even make my list, perhaps.

I think it's fair that the covers aren't included, since they aren't DT songs, pure and simple, and even with the performances DT did, almost every one of them was very close to the original - it's not like they re-did the songs so that they were more significantly more DT-like.

[Jamesman42]

I know Bombay Vindaloo, Eve, and Raise the Knife (which I do like, especially BV). I don't think I have heard (and never had much motivation to hear) their B-sides or live only songs.

Even if you were never really motivated, why not do it? You never know what kinda gems you might discover!   

Give me a few recs and I will listen tonight

[Setlist Scotty]

From the live only tracks, Barfbag and The Gladiator Theme. From the Majesty demos, A Vision and Mar h of the Tyrant (I assume you already know Another Won from Score). From the IaW demos, Don't Look Past Me (you already know To Live Forever, right?) And from the FII demos, Speak to Me and The Way It Used to Be (assuming you know Cover My Eyes on 5 Years in a Livetime and Raise the Knife on Score). If you don't know To Live Forever or Eve (a mellow instrumental), they both are a part of the same show as the link for Barfbag. That should be enough to keep you busy. 😁

[Jamesman42]

I have heard Eve and Raise the Knife, and now that I read your post, I know Cover My Eyes and Another Won.

I am listening to To Live Forever now but I am about to head to bed, and will probably resume tomorrow morning. TLF is pretty cool on first listen, but I can see why it didn't make an album.

[TAC]

I am listening to To Live Forever now but I am about to head to bed

Well, that should help you fall asleep..

[Cool Chris]

I am listening to To Live Forever now but I am about to head to bed

Well, that should help you fall asleep..

[Jamesman42]

I am listening to To Live Forever now but I am about to head to bed

Well, that should help you fall asleep..

You weren't wrong 

[Stadler]

I am listening to To Live Forever now but I am about to head to bed

Well, that should help you fall asleep..

You weren't wrong 

Dammit.  I love that song (the first version is better).

[hefdaddy42]

I say, include everything except the Majesty songs.  Those are crap, and aren't technically Dream Theater anyway.

[nobloodyname]

I quite like Another Won but that's probably because of all the play it got during the Octavarium tour.

[Setlist Scotty]

I say, include everything except the Majesty songs.  Those are crap, and aren't technically Dream Theater anyway.

Now that's just ridiculous to use that as an excuse. It's only because the band changed their name. It wasn't that it was a different band. So let's stop with this sort of reasoning. 

And yeah, while they might not be the greatest songs in the catalog, I'd still take some of them over some of the stuff that did end up on official albums...

[Trav]

I say, include everything except the Majesty songs.  Those are crap, and aren't technically Dream Theater anyway.

Now that's just ridiculous to use that as an excuse. It's only because the band changed their name. It wasn't that it was a different band. So let's stop with this sort of reasoning. 

And yeah, while they might not be the greatest songs in the catalog, I'd still take some of them over some of the stuff that did end up on official albums...

Geez Scotty, we gotta draw the line somewhere.  Can we at least say it has to be officially recorded songs? Not demos.

[Setlist Scotty]

I say, include everything except the Majesty songs.  Those are crap, and aren't technically Dream Theater anyway.

Now that's just ridiculous to use that as an excuse. It's only because the band changed their name. It wasn't that it was a different band. So let's stop with this sort of reasoning. 

And yeah, while they might not be the greatest songs in the catalog, I'd still take some of them over some of the stuff that did end up on official albums...

Geez Scotty, we gotta draw the line somewhere.  Can we at least say it has to be officially recorded songs? Not demos.

Give me all your *good* reasons for why they shouldn't be included (not lame ones like hef said). I'll give you several for why they should be:
• they are completely written songs (not missing lyrics, etc.)
• they were written by the band (they are not covers)
• they are intended as serious songs (not joke songs like "Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song")
• they have been released twice as part of the official bootleg series (thereby making them "canon")
• the original demos feature 4 of the 5 guys that appeared on the first 3 DT albums
• it's the same band, only under a different name
• 2.5 of the songs have been performed by DT (the .5 is the instrumental half of March of the Tyrant which was played during the last European run in 1993)
• KevShmev included them in his countdown
• some people prefer at least one or two of them over some of the songs that are on official studio albums

[Trav]

I think Hef's reason is good.

[Cool Chris]

Thinking about this made my mind go off in a different direction. I am not advocating for this, but it would be an interesting exercise to include all the officially released live songs, so everything from Marquee, Live Scenes, Budokan, etc... Afterlife from SCORE might crack my top 50, while WDaDU Afterlife might not make my top 150. I rank songs based on their studio album recording only, but I know others will factor in a live recording in their rankings.

[TAC]

In the morning, I will be posting the 100 songs that we will be choosing from. 

[hefdaddy42]

I say, include everything except the Majesty songs.  Those are crap, and aren't technically Dream Theater anyway.

Now that's just ridiculous to use that as an excuse. It's only because the band changed their name. It wasn't that it was a different band. So let's stop with this sort of reasoning. 

And yeah, while they might not be the greatest songs in the catalog, I'd still take some of them over some of the stuff that did end up on official albums...

Geez Scotty, we gotta draw the line somewhere.  Can we at least say it has to be officially recorded songs? Not demos.

Give me all your *good* reasons for why they shouldn't be included (not lame ones like hef said). I'll give you several for why they should be:
• they are completely written songs (not missing lyrics, etc.)
• they were written by the band (they are not covers)
• they are intended as serious songs (not joke songs like "Mike Thinks He's Dee Dee Ramone Introducing a Song Song")
• they have been released twice as part of the official bootleg series (thereby making them "canon")
• the original demos feature 4 of the 5 guys that appeared on the first 3 DT albums
• it's the same band, only under a different name
• 2.5 of the songs have been performed by DT (the .5 is the instrumental half of March of the Tyrant which was played during the last European run in 1993)
• KevShmev included them in his countdown
• some people prefer at least one or two of them over some of the songs that are on official studio albums

*shrugs*

I mean, whatever.  I don't care about any of those reasons.  It's the Majesty Demos.  Not even the band thought they were good enough songs to actually record them once they got a recording contract.  They've pulled a couple of them out during live performances as treats to superfans, or curiosities, or, in the case of Another Won during the 20th Anniversary tour, for "historical" purposes.  But they are pretty bad. 

I mean, I'm glad that YOU like them, but whatever.  Make them eligible, fine, and see how many make the final list.

[Stadler]

I guess I don't understand the rationale for LIMITING what someone else would choose?  if you don't want a Majesty song on your list, don't put it in. Simple.  Why does that mean someone else shouldn't?   

There's a really good chance that "Cover My Eyes" is my NUMBER ONE favorite DT song.  I listen to it a lot, and in fact I prefer the "Director's Cut" of FII over the released version BY A LOT.  Why does anyone else get to drive what my list looks like, given that fact?

[devieira73]

I must say that I like A LOT Another Won and Your Majesty (killer bass lines on both!) from Majesty days. Ok, Chris vocals were a bit annoying. It's not my fave DT song, but I think Cover My Eyes (demo version) is really good and even better than the acoustic version. Sure those 3 songs would be in my top 100 DT songs.

[Setlist Scotty]

It's the Majesty Demos.  Not even the band thought they were good enough songs to actually record them once they got a recording contract.

But the band has always been of the mindset to move on. It's the same reason why DLPM and the "outtakes" for FII never were recorded properly for a later album. They have proven to be very much focused on the "now" and not focusing on the past.

I guess I don't understand the rationale for LIMITING what someone else would choose?  if you don't want a Majesty song on your list, don't put it in. Simple.  Why does that mean someone else shouldn't?   

Exactly. An argument could be made for limiting the tracks to pick from if we were asked to rank every single track, but that's not the case here - it's just the top 100.

[hefdaddy42]

Well hey, it's not my call.  I'm not running the thing.  Just expressing my opinion, just like you are.

[Dave_Manchester]

Only the DT fanbase could make selecting a bunch of songs for an online countdown look like the House of Representatives Speaker election, but since everyone else has tossed in their opinion I might as well offer mine: like Stadler said, I'd place as few limits as possible. Studio songs, b-sides, the Falling Into Infinity outtakes, the Majesty stuff, throw it all in there. Live stuff? I have no strong opinion on that, except to say that Instrumedley would certainly make my list, and there are a few live versions that I consider to be head and shoulders above the studio recordings. But like I said, I have no strong opinion because it might make an already colossal task for whoever runs it even more unwieldy.

[Wim Kruithof]

Sorry for the not-knowing, but what is the format in which you rank the individual songs? I have compiled the previous list roughly, but I am convinced that with a good format, the list will become more thorough. Is it true that you always choose from two songs, from which an algorithm ultimately produces a list of 100? And if that's true, what do you use?

Sounds completely genius. Can't wait to see the top 100 been revealed, but also am really curious to see how my own list will unfold.

[Zydar]

I'm up for participating, I don't think I did it the previous time.

[Wim Kruithof]

Live stuff? I have no strong opinion on that, except to say that Instrumedley would certainly make my list, and there are a few live versions that I consider to be head and shoulders above the studio recordings. But like I said, I have no strong opinion because it might make an already colossal task for whoever runs it even more unwieldy.

Tossed in the pan was the idea that you're able to choose your own version of the song, as long as you stick to one position on each song. I really like that idea and will rank Surrounded with the Marquee-version in my mind, for example. But it doesn't matter at all, which version you prefer, in your own ranking. Simply but most fair I guess.

[Animal]

This is a countdown I would definitely participate in.

As for inclusion of demos and whatnot, I don't see how Stadler's nominating Cover My Eyes as his n. 1 songs ruins anyone else's enjoyment. The only practical reason to restrict the list to choose from is that a more inclusive list gives a threadrunner more items to handle. But I believe that after the stuff like favorite singer/guitarist/artist countdown, with like a milion different artists featured in the final list, few more more entries probably won't cause the threadrunner break much sweat.

In the end, however pg1067 decides to run the thread, I am in.

[KevShmev]

Paul/pg1067 and I have been in talks about this (that sounds so official ), and I will likely take this over and run it again like I did with the first one a few years ago.  I will start a new thread on it soon. With all the excitement now among the fanbase with the return of Mike Portnoy, this really is the perfect time to run this again. 

[Zydar]

Sounds great, Kev!

[Trav]

Paul/pg1067 and I have been in talks about this (that sounds so official ), and I will likely take this over and run it again like I did with the first one a few years ago.  I will start a new thread on it soon. With all the excitement now among the fanbase with the return of Mike Portnoy, this really is the perfect time to run this again. 

Sweet!

[Stadler]

Paul/pg1067 and I have been in talks about this (that sounds so official ), and I will likely take this over and run it again like I did with the first one a few years ago.  I will start a new thread on it soon. With all the excitement now among the fanbase with the return of Mike Portnoy, this really is the perfect time to run this again. 

HAHA, will there be a press release?   

[Wim Kruithof]

Very nice KevShmev, you surely did a brilliant job last time...