Is it too early to speculate about DT16?

[bosk1]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

[Chino]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

[Mladen]

Those aren't exactly growls. Mikael Åkerfeldt growls. Mike's vocals on ANTR are more like shouting.

[crystalstars17]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

That's what I thought, too... No way, was that James?! 

[Kwyjibo]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

Yeah, at first I thought you guys know the secret death metal record by Dream Theater, that I somehow missed. 

You can call what MP is doing rough, gruff or whatever, but it's far from growls.

[Lonk]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

Yeah, at first I thought you guys know the secret death metal record by Dream Theater, that I somehow missed. 

You can call what MP is doing rough, gruff or whatever, but it's far from growls.

[hefdaddy42]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

[emtee]

Poor MP. He's taken a lot of grief for that section over the years. If I remember correctly this was during of his peak fandom of Opeth. After Opeth he got owned by Muse.

RRRAAAAWWWWRRRR

[Lethean]

I agree with all of you - just used "growls" to respond to the post and to be a bit lazy I suppose.

[Lonk]

I agree with all of you - just used "growls" to respond to the post and to be a bit lazy I suppose.

I mean, he tried 

FWIW, I actually like that part.

[WilliamMunny]

I tend to not speculate about anything, even when formal announcements start coming out. I just want the damn album released!

While I appreciate touring is a major revenue stream for these artists, I selfishly wish aging bands like DT and Maiden would cut down on the tours in order to record and release more music. I have so little desire to attend concerts at this stage in my life, and I rarely buy live recordings (and those from DT are... eh... that's a point for another thread...). But their albums will give me joy for the next 40+ years. I am sure there are good reasons, but it still baffles me more bands didn't release more material during the second half of 2020 and in to 2021.

On topic... I see View as a big jump up from DoT, which might have been too big of a course correction coming off TA. If they continue on this trajectory, I will be happy.

Man, you and me both!!!

I get that touring is probably 90% of their income, but the studio albums are forever (and comprise the vast majority of my listening and fan experience).

[crystalstars17]

I tend to not speculate about anything, even when formal announcements start coming out. I just want the damn album released!

While I appreciate touring is a major revenue stream for these artists, I selfishly wish aging bands like DT and Maiden would cut down on the tours in order to record and release more music. I have so little desire to attend concerts at this stage in my life, and I rarely buy live recordings (and those from DT are... eh... that's a point for another thread...). But their albums will give me joy for the next 40+ years. I am sure there are good reasons, but it still baffles me more bands didn't release more material during the second half of 2020 and in to 2021.

On topic... I see View as a big jump up from DoT, which might have been too big of a course correction coming off TA. If they continue on this trajectory, I will be happy.

Man, you and me both!!!

I get that touring is probably 90% of their income, but the studio albums are forever (and comprise the vast majority of my listening and fan experience).

Oh, but we would miss them!

I'm so glad DT does both about 50/50. I hope to see this trend continue.

[Samsara]

While I appreciate touring is a major revenue stream for these artists, I selfishly wish aging bands like DT and Maiden would cut down on the tours in order to record and release more music.

Agreed. I still enjoy concerts, but not as much as I did in years past. I get way too annoyed with people, and these days, don't like being in large crowds. So I am all for older artists cutting down touring but ramping up albums. The only way that happens though, is if the current model flips and people start paying for music again (I do!).

[Kwyjibo]

I do too and I think a lot here do the same. But that's probably not enough. Record sales aren't what they used to be.

But I wonder how guys like Arjen Lucassen do it. He didn't play live for a long time and now he's not really touring but makes some special events. Can't imagine that he makes a shitload of money with those. So he has to rely mainly on sales, or am I missing something?

The only thing I see is, he doesn't have do give equal shares to his band members, but then all those guest musicians probably don't play for free either.

[Setlist Scotty]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind MP's growls? I remember first getting into DT. I thought the occasional growl was a nice surpirse and added a bit of texture. I dont like growly bands - I have tried. But the MP stuff, ya sure!
I've never seen MP live, so am excited about the JP tour!

For me it's not just the growls, but the regular singing as well.  Too loud backing vocals live, singing the beginning of Take the Time, stuff like Constant Motion.  It just didn't work for me.

Personally, I don't get the hate for MP's vocals. Aside from *that* section in ANtR (which I always felt JL should've done with his "Awake" voice - just like he ended up doing on the d/t tour), I always thought his vocals (and JP's real live vocals) brought something more to DT. Neither MP or JP are great vocalists, but they add to the character of the music. Perfect example is in SDVu - love how their backing vocals work so well with JL's. So that's just another of the many things I miss now that MP's gone. But I digress...

I selfishly wish aging bands like DT and Maiden would cut down on the tours in order to record and release more music.

Man, you and me both!!!

I get that touring is probably 90% of their income, but the studio albums are forever (and comprise the vast majority of my listening and fan experience).

Add me to the list as well!

[TAC]

I couldn't agree more, Scotty. I have been watching a bit of Score recently, and the backing vocals really add to the personality of the performance.

[Dublagent66]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

[cramx3]

I don't have issues with MP's backing vocals, but I prefer him not to do leads.  Also, MP backing vocals are wayyyy better than using backing tracks.

[TAC]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

The worst part of that song is the never ending outro. It would've been a much better 10 minute song.

[emtee]

Never loved MP's vocals in DT. Didn't dislike them but they never grabbed me. However, his harmonies and vocals in TA are outstanding. That makes little sense but is true nonetheless.

[Architeuthis]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

I've never had an issue with that part of the song.  I actually like it and there's nothing wrong with DT adding a little bit of humor here and there.  I can't understand why so many people have made such an issue out of it even to this day.   

[Lethean]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind MP's growls? I remember first getting into DT. I thought the occasional growl was a nice surpirse and added a bit of texture. I dont like growly bands - I have tried. But the MP stuff, ya sure!
I've never seen MP live, so am excited about the JP tour!

For me it's not just the growls, but the regular singing as well.  Too loud backing vocals live, singing the beginning of Take the Time, stuff like Constant Motion.  It just didn't work for me.

Personally, I don't get the hate for MP's vocals. Aside from *that* section in ANtR (which I always felt JL should've done with his "Awake" voice - just like he ended up doing on the d/t tour), I always thought his vocals (and JP's real live vocals) brought something more to DT. Neither MP or JP are great vocalists, but they add to the character of the music. Perfect example is in SDVu - love how their backing vocals work so well with JL's. So that's just another of the many things I miss now that MP's gone. But I digress...

I'm drawing a blank on the acronym (can't be Space Dye Vest?) but I just don't like the sound of his voice.  I'm OK with/can tolerate it on some of the earlier albums where it's not too prominent or loud, but as it went on, I just found it really irritating.  It detracted rather than added for me.  JP I don't mind as much, but that's probably because he's not as loud as MP was.  MP just doesn't have a singing voice (for my ears).  There's a Flying Colors song he sings lead on and it just sounds all kinds of wrong to me.

Backing vocal tracks didn't bother me a bit with Rush and DT using them now is a relief to me.  I probably wouldn't mind if JP decided to put himself a little louder in the mix for certain things so long as it wasn't overpowering, but I don't need it. 

[Kwyjibo]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind MP's growls? I remember first getting into DT. I thought the occasional growl was a nice surpirse and added a bit of texture. I dont like growly bands - I have tried. But the MP stuff, ya sure!
I've never seen MP live, so am excited about the JP tour!

For me it's not just the growls, but the regular singing as well.  Too loud backing vocals live, singing the beginning of Take the Time, stuff like Constant Motion.  It just didn't work for me.

Personally, I don't get the hate for MP's vocals. Aside from *that* section in ANtR (which I always felt JL should've done with his "Awake" voice - just like he ended up doing on the d/t tour), I always thought his vocals (and JP's real live vocals) brought something more to DT. Neither MP or JP are great vocalists, but they add to the character of the music. Perfect example is in SDVu - love how their backing vocals work so well with JL's. So that's just another of the many things I miss now that MP's gone. But I digress...

Strange Deja Vu is a perfect example how MP's vocals really complement JLB's singing and therefore enhance the whole song. So generally I like his vocals.

And that passage in ANTR isn't so bad, and even if some think so, it's a relatively short passage in a long song, shouldn't generate that much hate imo.

[Samsara]

Portnoy worked hard over his career to really learn how to sing and accompany and harmonize. He's not great, and he'd probably even say that (he has great ears, after all). But his vocals in Dream Theater, particularly live shows, helped make things more dynamic in the vocal department, which was important.

[Stadler]

Portnoy worked hard over his career to really learn how to sing and accompany and harmonize. He's not great, and he'd probably even say that (he has great ears, after all). But his vocals in Dream Theater, particularly live shows, helped make things more dynamic in the vocal department, which was important.

I agree with this. I think it's sort of a cheap shot to rag on his vocals at this point.  Not the "growls" (I know they're not) specifically, but he's Ringo at this point, a good complement to the better singers around him.  I LOVE his verse in "The Way It Had To Be", and he makes "Rose Colored Glasses" for me.  I think he's found a good spot vocally and I actually look forward to his spots now. 

[SwedishGoose]

Portnoy worked hard over his career to really learn how to sing and accompany and harmonize. He's not great, and he'd probably even say that (he has great ears, after all). But his vocals in Dream Theater, particularly live shows, helped make things more dynamic in the vocal department, which was important.

I agree with this. I think it's sort of a cheap shot to rag on his vocals at this point.  Not the "growls" (I know they're not) specifically, but he's Ringo at this point, a good complement to the better singers around him.  I LOVE his verse in "The Way It Had To Be", and he makes "Rose Colored Glasses" for me.  I think he's found a good spot vocally and I actually look forward to his spots now.

Agree about his vocals in Transatlantic and NMB. Great complement to the other voices.

[cramx3]

I'll add his backing vocals work well with TWD too. 

[Lethean]

Portnoy worked hard over his career to really learn how to sing and accompany and harmonize. He's not great, and he'd probably even say that (he has great ears, after all). But his vocals in Dream Theater, particularly live shows, helped make things more dynamic in the vocal department, which was important.

I agree with this. I think it's sort of a cheap shot to rag on his vocals at this point.  Not the "growls" (I know they're not) specifically, but he's Ringo at this point, a good complement to the better singers around him.  I LOVE his verse in "The Way It Had To Be", and he makes "Rose Colored Glasses" for me.  I think he's found a good spot vocally and I actually look forward to his spots now.

I'm not ragging on them for kicks.  He may well be better in TA and NMB - I've never really gotten in to either of those, so I'm not familiar enough to say.  Maybe his voice works with Neal's well.  But I didn't care for it with Sons of Apollo or Flying Colors, which are both more recent than DT.  I don't doubt he's worked on it and I don't doubt he's improved with time.  But I'm still grateful it's not a thing with DT anymore.

[hefdaddy42]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

I've never had an issue with that part of the song.  I actually like it and there's nothing wrong with DT adding a little bit of humor here and there.  I can't understand why so many people have made such an issue out of it even to this day.   

It's not humor.  It's a shitty vocal.  There's nothing funny about it, it's just a bad choice.

[Dublagent66]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

I've never had an issue with that part of the song.  I actually like it and there's nothing wrong with DT adding a little bit of humor here and there.  I can't understand why so many people have made such an issue out of it even to this day.   

Well, it's definitely laughable IMO (not exactly funny per say) and detracts from the rest of the song.  I don't think it's absolutely horrible, but it just doesn't work for me at all.

[bosk1]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

I've never had an issue with that part of the song.  I actually like it and there's nothing wrong with DT adding a little bit of humor here and there.  I can't understand why so many people have made such an issue out of it even to this day.   

It's not humor.  It's a shitty vocal.  There's nothing funny about it, it's just a bad choice.

I agree that it's not meant to be humor (what a strange thing to try to say).  But there's nothing "bad" about it at all.  That's an equally bad take.

[Skeever]

I have never been at a DT show where the fans didn't get completely jacked for that part of A Nightmare to Remember. That's a good Portnoy vocal and people seem to love it.

You want to talk shit on a Portnoy vocal at least save it for Prophets of War.

[TAC]

No way. Every single moment of Prophets Of War is awesome.

[Adami]

No way. Every single moment of Prophets Of War is awesome.

My man.

[hefdaddy42]

MP has never done growls in DT (studio, anyway).

He doesn't do them on A Nightmare to Remember?

No, those are just awful vocals.  They aren't technically growls.

Definitely this.  It's also the worst part of what is otherwise a pretty cool song.

I've never had an issue with that part of the song.  I actually like it and there's nothing wrong with DT adding a little bit of humor here and there.  I can't understand why so many people have made such an issue out of it even to this day.   

It's not humor.  It's a shitty vocal.  There's nothing funny about it, it's just a bad choice.

I agree that it's not meant to be humor (what a strange thing to try to say).  But there's nothing "bad" about it at all.  That's an equally bad take.

It's not a bad take.  It's just a take.  Like your take that there's nothing "bad" about it at all.  It's just a take, not good or bad.  If you like it (which you apparently do), I wouldn't expect you to call it "bad".  I think it's terrible, so there's no way I would ever call it "good" or "not bad".