*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[Wim Kruithof]

Oh hey, I FINALLY received my artbook set.

I'm a fan of the artbooks as well.

Since this forum point out to me there was an artbook of Luna Park, (#grateful) which I ordered instantly, I've got a thing for artbooks. I also ordered A View and Distance Over Time, they would be delivered next week. The artwork is more comfortable watching with a book in hand.

-

Funny to see 80% of this whole forum is about ranking and which album, song or member to prefer over another. But growing as a fan, I become more and more aware that ranking is not my cup of tea. Of course there is a sort of spectrum with opposite sites overall, but when I'm digging in a new or older album or song, almost always I found out I love it. There are just so many aspects on every piece of music, ordering them is tough. And changes constantly, for me.

The songs I usually skip are countable on one hand only, (You Not Me and Build Me Up, Break Me Down is all I can think of).

[Glasser]

Dream Theater are so good they actually suck. 

They are horribly great 

Yes. These are ALL cream of the crop musicians that set the bar SO  high for themselves that they get nitpicked  more than most. The price of greatness. 

[Cyclopssss]

Hello people in DT land. I have returned from the dark side just to tell you how much I'm loving this new CLASSIC  DT-album! That is all....

[Ben_Jamin]

Oh hey, I FINALLY received my artbook set.

I'm a fan of the artbooks as well.

Since this forum point out to me there was an artbook of Luna Park, (#grateful) which I ordered instantly, I've got a thing for artbooks. I also ordered A View and Distance Over Time, they would be delivered next week. The artwork is more comfortable watching with a book in hand.

-

Funny to see 80% of this whole forum is about ranking and which album, song or member to prefer over another. But growing as a fan, I become more and more aware that ranking is not my cup of tea. Of course there is a sort of spectrum with opposite sites overall, but when I'm digging in a new or older album or song, almost always I found out I love it. There are just so many aspects on every piece of music, ordering them is tough. And changes constantly, for me.

The songs I usually skip are countable on one hand only, (You Not Me and Build Me Up, Break Me Down is all I can think of).

The way I rank isn't about if the song is good or bad. It's more the songs I prefer to listen to and those that I find intriguing and just overall enjoyable to listen to for many reasons altogether.

[svisser]

This is probably just me, but does anyone get some Voyager-eqsue vibes from the vocal phrasing in Awaken The Master's verse? It has a similar phrasing as Voyager's song Hyperventilating. I also hear it at points in the title track.

[Glasser]

This is probably just me, but does anyone get some Voyager-eqsue vibes from the vocal phrasing in Awaken The Master's verse? It has a similar phrasing as Voyager's song Hyperventilating. I also hear it at points in the title track.

Wow!!!!!! That's it!!! I couldn't think of what it reminded me of and you nailed it!!! Daniel is one of the best. So mesmerizing and emotional!!! 

[Dellers]

This is probably just me, but does anyone get some Voyager-eqsue vibes from the vocal phrasing in Awaken The Master's verse? It has a similar phrasing as Voyager's song Hyperventilating. I also hear it at points in the title track.

I wouldn't have noticed unless you mentioned it, but I do hear it when I hear both next to each other. I guess music will always sound somewhat similar to something. The verse of Sleeping Giant reminds me of what I believe is originally My Rainbow Race by Pete Seeger.

[DoctorAction]

Did some listening to the album today while running and driving. Really enjoyed ATC, SG, ATM, TT. Deliberately skipped IM (because I don't enjoy it), TA (already know it well and like it) and ran out of time for the title track among Mastodon listening.

Thoroughly enjoyed what I listened to.

* ATM - That change from the riffy intro into the piano section is so nice.
* I have no problem with the guitar solo in TT.

[Architeuthis]

Hello people in DT land. I have returned from the dark side just to tell you how much I'm loving this new CLASSIC  DT-album! That is all....

Right on man!  It is indeed a lot of fun to listen to..   

[svisser]

This is probably just me, but does anyone get some Voyager-eqsue vibes from the vocal phrasing in Awaken The Master's verse? It has a similar phrasing as Voyager's song Hyperventilating. I also hear it at points in the title track.

Wow!!!!!! That's it!!! I couldn't think of what it reminded me of and you nailed it!!! Daniel is one of the best. So mesmerizing and emotional!!! 

This is probably just me, but does anyone get some Voyager-eqsue vibes from the vocal phrasing in Awaken The Master's verse? It has a similar phrasing as Voyager's song Hyperventilating. I also hear it at points in the title track.

I wouldn't have noticed unless you mentioned it, but I do hear it when I hear both next to each other. I guess music will always sound somewhat similar to something. The verse of Sleeping Giant reminds me of what I believe is originally My Rainbow Race by Pete Seeger.

This honestly what I love about the album. There are quit a few points that show they are really playing with some new shapes in their music. Although it may be subtle, it is these areas that show me they still let themselves be influenced by newer music. Granted, it is total conjecture as to if they specifically were inspired by Voyager at these points. lol.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Mike Mangini posted a Youtube video promoting a 2-hour Zoom class for "A View From The Top Of The World" for cheap 10.49USD, with an option for 19.99USD upgrade for VIP if you want to have your video on and ask Mike questions face-to-face instead of just a chat function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6_KPa_wz6o

Then a poster on the Youtube channel ruined the mood:

Dude, don't get me wrong, I'll say it with all due respect but, I understand that times aren't easy for anyone, but do the classes for free!! Just share it with the world, here!! I understand that you're doing this because of the interaction with students! You're a teacher by trade, that's perfectly understandable. But share some drumming from the new album and don't just do it for the exclusivity of paying viewers!! That is killing the vibe!!!

Portnoy never did it for the money... 😔

Thank you so much.

The nerve of some people. Mike is not doing a drum cam playthrough. He is teaching a two-hour lesson.

Whoever posted that comment is a moron and/or a troll. Believe it or not, musicians can't always afford to give their 'product' for free.

That price is amazing to take a 2 hour lesson with one of the best drummers in heavy music ever. He also explains what he is doing and why, from what I've seen. I think some people on this thread who aren't enjoying his playing and aren't understanding why he is making certain musical choices might even get something out of it at that price. I am actually considering doing it myself, and I am not even a drummer 

[Kotowboy]

Would I pay £20 to have a TWO HOUR one-on-one chat with Noel Gallagher or Billie Joe Armstrong ?

You're fuckin right I would !!!

[cramx3]

Some idiot that posts a comment doesn't ruin it though, just another bad take on the internet. 

I know MM has done lots of classes since joining DT on teaching drums.  11 bucks for a 2 hour session is fantastic, even at 20 it seems like a good deal.  He has no obligation to make his time free.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Some idiot that posts a comment doesn't ruin it though, just another bad take on the internet. 

I know MM has done lots of classes since joining DT on teaching drums.  11 bucks for a 2 hour session is fantastic, even at 20 it seems like a good deal.  He has no obligation to make his time free.

I subscribe to TrueFire, where you can get private lessons from a number of fantastic, well respected guitarists for a fair price, which is still above what MM is asking. Some musicians are asking for several hundred dollars for a 30 second Cameo LOL.

[KevShmev]

While I get that some musicians take advantage of fans by charging crazy prices that they know diehards will pay just because, if you have a problem with it, it is simple: do not buy it.  I would never pay anyone to watch a drum lesson, but if someone else want to, it's their money.  Have at it.

[TAC]

The thing is, for Mangini, it's only $9.99. That is more than reasonable.

[Trav]

I'd rather pay $9.99 to see Mangini give a lesson in real time where you can ask questions than $20 for a DVD of Portnoy playing along to tracks on an album. Which he did. For every album.

[TAC]

I'd rather pay $9.99 to see Mangini give a lesson in real time where you can ask questions than $20 for a DVD of Portnoy playing along to tracks on an album. Which he did. For every album.

[bosk1]

But both are pretty cool (and, ultimately, pretty reasonably priced too).  And it's great that Portnoy and Mangini provided these services for fans/students. 

[TAC]

But both are pretty cool (and, ultimately, pretty reasonably priced too).  And it's great that Portnoy and Mangini provided these services for fans/students.

I josh but I bought MP's commentary DVDs. They are goldmines.

I never thought of it that way, but Mangini is doing the same thing in a way. Giving the fans a view inside. That's cool.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

But both are pretty cool (and, ultimately, pretty reasonably priced too).  And it's great that Portnoy and Mangini provided these services for fans/students.

I josh but I bought MP's commentary DVDs. They are goldmines.

I never thought of it that way, but Mangini is doing the same thing in a way. Giving the fans a view inside. That's cool.

Exactly. And given how everything he does is scrutinized, I would think there is a ton of demand for him to actually explain what he is doing.

He also has a bunch of cool free stuff from play along to analysis on his YouTube. I just can't get over that guy trying to put a professional musician on blast for charging $10-$20 for a 2hr lesson lol. I am sure this guy has no issue with JP charging for Rock Discipline, which, by the way, is more than MM's lesson. And that too is a great DVD that is worth every penny for aspiring guitarists.

[nobloodyname]

Does that have the 5.1 mix?  Either of you listen to that yet?

I found the 5.1 mix... pointless. It makes very little use of the surround speakers. I notice Trav86 described it as "awesome", though, so perhaps I need to listen more intently.

Note that I don't have a complete surround system. It's a good sound bar and subwoofer. I'm not comparing it to anything, just how it sounds. It sounds awesome to me.

Pleased you think it's aurally awesome, though, despite missing the elements that make it 5.1; that's good.

[jayvee3]

I stated something similar a few pages back, but this album is copping the exact same amount of treatment as every new album. Some (I'll include myself in this group), will like most the things the band has done and may not connect with everything, but will find things they enjoy on every DT release. Some will hail the new album as the holy grail, born from the mountaintops of Jerusalem after a day of listening. Some will flat out not enjoy it. Some won't give it a "real" chance, because they really just aren't into the band anymore. Some will still swear black and blue that MM just overplays everything and has sucked the life out of the band, etc, etc.

All I know is: I've been listening to the band for over 30 years (I cherished my Images and words cassette). And the band has given me some real joy and music to smile about over the years. I love every album to varying degrees. But EVERY album has tracks I skip too. I take the good with the not so good. I liked MP's drumming, he needed to be replaced, and I like MM's drumming just as much. Debate it all you want, but the truth is - they are drummers, and both of their work with the band is just fine. The average punter wouldn't even know they changed drummers if you played them some random tracks.

Im not technical at all. So, it comes down to how the songs sound. And they have high quality tracks on every release from WDADU right to the latest in View. To suggest laziness, or so and so doesn't sound great - it's DT. Nothing is that different. They experiment. They time change. They do long. They do short. They do epic. They do metal. They do melody. And they still always bring quality after over 30 years...

Wow, what a great post.  I can't say I agree with every word of it, but I pretty much agree with the overall sentiment of every point.

Cheers Bosky.

And if what you don't agree with is cherishing cassette tapes - that's fair. Because frankly, cassettes were a bit shit 

[Bertielee]

OK, three listens in and I don't feel the need nor do I feel the urge to listen to the album. I haven't experienced this since the BC&SL days...Not that it's a bad album per se, but maybe I have moved on. F***...

B.Lee

[Elite]

While I get that some musicians take advantage of fans by charging crazy prices that they know diehards will pay just because, if you have a problem with it, it is simple: do not buy it.  I would never pay anyone to watch a drum lesson, but if someone else want to, it's their money.  Have at it.

I would not too, because I'm not a drummer. But who knows? In the future I might. I've spent god knows how much money for music education, saxophone, piano, vocal and guitar lessons. The idea that 'knowledge is free' might be true, especially in times where we can look up anything and everything on the internet, but GOOD education is valuable. Charging money for classes, or even video lessons, isn't all that strange.

[Kotowboy]

That's the trouble with having low self-esteem - I give all my music away since I don't think it has any value  . .

But also - on Bandcamp I've found that if you charge £5 an album - NOBODY will buy one.

If you say it's all FREE - people are more inclined to donate. So there is that as well.

Like with RadioHead's In Rainbows - they used a pay whatever you want method and some people paid silly money for it. It ended up being

probably their most profitable album cause some people donated stupid money. Just cause they could.

[Kyo]

I think alternating measure of 12/8 and 11/8 are more obvious for that intro than calling it 23/16, but that may be me.

That (or rather a 6-6-6-5) is one of the ways this can be subdivided - and Mangini plays it like that when the drum groove enters at 1:59. But it's not a good fit for when the new rhythm is introduced at 1:03. The instrumental section later on also has the underlying 23 subdivided as 5-5-5-8, for example.

[wolfking]

A 2 hour interactive class with MM for $20!  And people think he should do it for free? 

Firstly, he should be charging a LOT more than that.  20 is like a fifth of what he should be charging.  And secondly, those people saying that, if they had their own business would they give Mike their services for free?  I think not.

[Bertielee]

A 2 hour interactive class with MM for $20!  And people think he should do it for free? 

Firstly, he should be charging a LOT more than that.  20 is like a fifth of what he should be charging.  And secondly, those people saying that, if they had their own business would they give Mike their services for free?  I think not.

I agree with all of this.

[Kotowboy]

Should he upload song playthroughs for free ? Yes. He's just playing the song once for fun - to show everyone how it's played. No biggie.


Should he do 2 hour one on one drum LESSONS for free ? No. It's a service. And it's costing his time.

[Trav]

Should he upload song playthroughs for free ? Yes. He's just playing the song once for fun - to show everyone how it's played. No biggie.


Should he do 2 hour one on one drum LESSONS for free ? No. It's a service. And it's costing his time.

Exactly. And let's be real, his main source of income (assuming his wife doesn't make more money than him) has been cut-off for nearly two years. I'm not saying that well has run dry, but he may not get the same cut from the DT bank that the other, more veteran, members of the band get.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Also I am sure that by the time the technology provider-- YouTube or whoever-- not to mention any hardware/personnel costs have been taken into account, MM will make very little money on this unless he is driving massive volume, which he isn't. I get the sense that he actually enjoys teaching drums and that's one reason why he is doing this.


Also my last word on this: $10 doesn't buy you a cocktail where I live, and barely covers a draft beer. I am sure this guy who posted is a MP die hard fan and just trolling MM.

[ZirconBlue]

I get the sense that he actually enjoys teaching drums . . . .

I mean, he was a full-time instructor at Berklee for several years.

[Stadler]

I stated something similar a few pages back, but this album is copping the exact same amount of treatment as every new album. Some (I'll include myself in this group), will like most the things the band has done and may not connect with everything, but will find things they enjoy on every DT release. Some will hail the new album as the holy grail, born from the mountaintops of Jerusalem after a day of listening. Some will flat out not enjoy it. Some won't give it a "real" chance, because they really just aren't into the band anymore. Some will still swear black and blue that MM just overplays everything and has sucked the life out of the band, etc, etc.

All I know is: I've been listening to the band for over 30 years (I cherished my Images and words cassette). And the band has given me some real joy and music to smile about over the years. I love every album to varying degrees. But EVERY album has tracks I skip too. I take the good with the not so good. I liked MP's drumming, he needed to be replaced, and I like MM's drumming just as much. Debate it all you want, but the truth is - they are drummers, and both of their work with the band is just fine. The average punter wouldn't even know they changed drummers if you played them some random tracks.

Im not technical at all. So, it comes down to how the songs sound. And they have high quality tracks on every release from WDADU right to the latest in View. To suggest laziness, or so and so doesn't sound great - it's DT. Nothing is that different. They experiment. They time change. They do long. They do short. They do epic. They do metal. They do melody. And they still always bring quality after over 30 years...

Wow, what a great post.  I can't say I agree with every word of it, but I pretty much agree with the overall sentiment of every point.

Cheers Bosky.

And if what you don't agree with is cherishing cassette tapes - that's fair. Because frankly, cassettes were a bit shit 

I know this is "get off my lawn!" territory, but there was a neat ritual back in the day.  New album came out - Tuesdays, if memory serves (I know it was always the same day) - and you'd take it home.  Crack open the plastic and inspect the vinyl, putting it on your turntable and starting it up.  While listening, immerse yourself in the liner notes, the jacket text (if any) and the gatefold artwork (if any).   After the first listen through, get a Maxell 90 minute tape (the vast majority of single albums back then could fit on 45 minute sides; you may have had to cut or fade one song) and dub a copy.   Then for the next week or so, live with that fucker in your car or walkman, because that was the only music you had.    To this day, I can STILL give you album and song rundowns (sometimes with times) for those albums I was immersed in in high school.   Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap?   DDDDC, Love At First Feel, Big Balls, Rocker, Problem Child, Ain't No Fun..., There's Gonna Be Some Rockin', Ride On, Squealer.   Ozzy?  I Don't Know, Crazy Train, Goodbye To Romance, Dee, Suicide Solution, Mr. Crowley, No Bone Movies, Revelation, Steal Away.  Don't get me started on Kiss; I can do that from Strutter off the first album through Save Your Love on Dynasty.   To this day, Somewhere In Time by Maiden goes from Heaven Can Wait to Stranger In A Strange Land, because I cut Loneliness off the tape because of time. 

I miss that.   I have an iPod that has all my music on it (I modded it), but it's not the same.  I miss my little black canvas bag with the latest and greatest cassettes in there (I actually still have that, and have many of my tapes). 

[Trav]

I stated something similar a few pages back, but this album is copping the exact same amount of treatment as every new album. Some (I'll include myself in this group), will like most the things the band has done and may not connect with everything, but will find things they enjoy on every DT release. Some will hail the new album as the holy grail, born from the mountaintops of Jerusalem after a day of listening. Some will flat out not enjoy it. Some won't give it a "real" chance, because they really just aren't into the band anymore. Some will still swear black and blue that MM just overplays everything and has sucked the life out of the band, etc, etc.

All I know is: I've been listening to the band for over 30 years (I cherished my Images and words cassette). And the band has given me some real joy and music to smile about over the years. I love every album to varying degrees. But EVERY album has tracks I skip too. I take the good with the not so good. I liked MP's drumming, he needed to be replaced, and I like MM's drumming just as much. Debate it all you want, but the truth is - they are drummers, and both of their work with the band is just fine. The average punter wouldn't even know they changed drummers if you played them some random tracks.

Im not technical at all. So, it comes down to how the songs sound. And they have high quality tracks on every release from WDADU right to the latest in View. To suggest laziness, or so and so doesn't sound great - it's DT. Nothing is that different. They experiment. They time change. They do long. They do short. They do epic. They do metal. They do melody. And they still always bring quality after over 30 years...

Wow, what a great post.  I can't say I agree with every word of it, but I pretty much agree with the overall sentiment of every point.

Cheers Bosky.

And if what you don't agree with is cherishing cassette tapes - that's fair. Because frankly, cassettes were a bit shit 

I know this is "get off my lawn!" territory, but there was a neat ritual back in the day.  New album came out - Tuesdays, if memory serves (I know it was always the same day) - and you'd take it home.  Crack open the plastic and inspect the vinyl, putting it on your turntable and starting it up.  While listening, immerse yourself in the liner notes, the jacket text (if any) and the gatefold artwork (if any).   After the first listen through, get a Maxell 90 minute tape (the vast majority of single albums back then could fit on 45 minute sides; you may have had to cut or fade one song) and dub a copy.   Then for the next week or so, live with that fucker in your car or walkman, because that was the only music you had.    To this day, I can STILL give you album and song rundowns (sometimes with times) for those albums I was immersed in in high school.   Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap?   DDDDC, Love At First Feel, Big Balls, Rocker, Problem Child, Ain't No Fun..., There's Gonna Be Some Rockin', Ride On, Squealer.   Ozzy?  I Don't Know, Crazy Train, Goodbye To Romance, Dee, Suicide Solution, Mr. Crowley, No Bone Movies, Revelation, Steal Away.  Don't get me started on Kiss; I can do that from Strutter off the first album through Save Your Love on Dynasty.   To this day, Somewhere In Time by Maiden goes from Heaven Can Wait to Stranger In A Strange Land, because I cut Loneliness off the tape because of time. 

I miss that.   I have an iPod that has all my music on it (I modded it), but it's not the same.  I miss my little black canvas bag with the latest and greatest cassettes in there (I actually still have that, and have many of my tapes).

Awesome post. I had the exact experience in the 90s but it was CDs. And it was Dream Theater, Tool and Metallica.