DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[Dream Team]

Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome

Depends if it's the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that's a good thing.

Which do you prefer?

Their classic sound obviously. Modern SX is totally generic and a colossal waste of Russell Allen.

[LKap13]

Classic sx is awesome, but iconoclast is pretty damn good. They've kept a high level throughout

[jayvee3]

Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome

Depends if it's the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that's a good thing.

Which do you prefer?

Their classic sound obviously. Modern SX is totally generic and a colossal waste of Russell Allen.

Gee, while I can understand not everyone will enjoy the heavier elements of SX's more modern stuff (I love Underworld, Iconoclast and Paradise Lost but all good), Russ is incredible on some of the tracks such as Paradise Lost, Swan Song, When all is Lost, The Sacrifice, Revelation etc... Ah well, to each his own...

[LKap13]

Agree with all that

[abydos]

I'm in the same boat. Odyssey was the last album that I loved, despite it still being quite heavier and different, but it retained enough of what I think made SX awesome.

The rest of the albums have great tracks but I don't care about any of them as a whole. It's generic modern metal, remove RA and it's gonna be hard time to recognize them. Only the biggest Romeo fans might recognize his style. Still, even the worse production on old albums benefits the sound, it adds to the chracater.

[Architeuthis]

If AVFTTOTW rivals the title track from The Odyssey I'll be stoked. That is an amazing epic song!

[Glasser]

If AVFTTOTW rivals the title track from The Odyssey I'll be stoked. That is an amazing epic song!

The Odyssey is my all-time favorite epic, its nearly perfect. I love AVFTTOTW but I need more time listening to put it up there with that.

[dparrott]

To this day I wish that A Nightmare to Remember and Beautiful Agony were two separate songs.

When the stems were released, someone made it a separate song.  More than just an edit, it had some extra production to it. I burned it on CD.

[Kotowboy]

Black Clouds & Silver Linings could have been another 8 track album but I think Portnoy loved the idea of 4 epics and 2 songs.

Nightmare did NOT need to be 16 minutes.

[bosk1]

Nightmare did NOT need to be 16 minutes.

Perhaps not, but it isn't anything different structurally from anything else of comparable length that they've done.  If I'm the producer on that album, there isn't anything in that song that screams "cut me out."  I would maybe cut about 45 seconds of the instrumental before the last chorus comes in, and maybe cut out the roar (but NOT the vocals that precede it), but that's about it.  It's nearly the perfect song. 

[TAC]

Nightmare did NOT need to be 16 minutes.

Perhaps not, but it isn't anything different structurally from anything else of comparable length that they've done.  If I'm the producer on that album, there isn't anything in that song that screams "cut me out."  I would maybe cut about 45 seconds of the instrumental before the last chorus comes in, and maybe cut out the roar (but NOT the vocals that precede it), but that's about it.  It's nearly the perfect song.

To me, the song takes forever to wind down. That's where I'd cut it down a bit. This is a song that I should love, but there's just something holding me back on it. I can't think of any section I don't like. It's puzzling.

[Kotowboy]

I think it has one solo section too many.

[ReaPsTA]

I agree with bosk that the song's structure isn't actually bad. If you're really down for the song as is it works okay. But for me, even though it's a banger live and I don't dislike any particular section, it crawls into the end.

The Peaceful Sedation part should have been broken into its own song. It's a good enough idea to justify slightly fleshing it out into its own song so that it can stand on its own and really breathe and be itself.

I think then if you go back to Nightmare and look at where to go without the section, something tighter could have been put together from it.

[erwinrafael]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

[Glasser]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

[TAC]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I don't agree with the notion of Beautiful Agony needing to be two separate songs. It's full of references to the main song, is connected lyrically to it, transitions smoothly from & back into it, & largely works because of how well it contrasts. Isolating it would make it into a Wither clone & would take away what I find special about it.

I could understand the argument of thinking the solo tradeoff should've gone straight into the final chorus (cutting 10:28-13:20), but I disagree with that too. I think it works fine as it is, because the heavy part adds more variety & the riffs afterward make the transition to the final chorus smoother.

I think ANTR handles its length a lot better than disc 1 of SDOIT, most of TOT, & the Octavarium title track, personally.

[Glasser]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn't do the same.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn't do the same.

I am surprised. I think that section is incredibly strong and something new for DT. I remember when DT12 came out, one of the words used to describe that album was 'cinematic' which I totally got from the orchestra section in particular. Thought it was really well done...though sometimes I'll skip it if I am at the gym 

[Glasser]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn't do the same.

I am surprised. I think that section is incredibly strong and something new for DT. I remember when DT12 came out, one of the words used to describe that album was 'cinematic' which I totally got from the orchestra section in particular. Thought it was really well done...though sometimes I'll skip it if I am at the gym 

I enjoy both versions BUT the silence wasn't necessary, too long. That's what I thought Chycki would've   edited

[Cool Chris]

To this day I wish that A Nightmare to Remember and Beautiful Agony were two separate songs.

To this day I wish everything after beautiful agony was different 😁

[ReaPsTA]

I don't agree with the notion of Beautiful Agony needing to be two separate songs. It's full of references to the main song, is connected lyrically to it, transitions smoothly from & back into it, & largely works because of how well it contrasts. Isolating it would make it into a Wither clone & would take away what I find special about it.

I think all of this is completely fair.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

One day I will understand why so many people don't like this section.

I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn't do the same.

The song makes a hard turn from an orchestral section to a drum and bass section. You have to have something in there to make it make sense, which I think the little dopplering rush sound effect does fine.

[Glasser]

I love Illumination Theory as is. My only small beef was the silence connected to end section which I shortened to about 2 or 3 seconds.

[erwinrafael]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn't do the same.

I am surprised. I think that section is incredibly strong and something new for DT. I remember when DT12 came out, one of the words used to describe that album was 'cinematic' which I totally got from the orchestra section in particular. Thought it was really well done...though sometimes I'll skip it if I am at the gym 

I don't see why those parts of IT would be edited out because they make sense in the story the music is trying to tell. That is different from the extended sections of ANTR and TGP, where I can not make sense why we had to hear the same riffs over and over again

[gzarruk]

I think it works great on TGP. ANTR not so much.

[jayvee3]

I'm definitely in the camp that Nightmare would be far better with a solid edit. Whether it should be seperate from "beautiful agony" is debatable, as like someone already pointed out, it adds nice layers and contrast and carries similar themes.

But to me, the opening could be shorter and more concise and the ending can easily be trimmed. It feels like it just takes so long to get going and so long to end. The solo could easily have been streamlined and I honestly feel it would be a much more cohesive track if these areas were streamlined.

The other thing I struggle with is the "day after day" section leading up to the roar. While I don't get too transfixed on the lyrics, this is one part where the angry tone of the vocals just doesn't match what's going on in the story where basically "everyone survived". Maybe it's just me, but this whole section could've been done in a far better way IMO.

Overall, this is one that I don't even put in the same category as their long epics, as it feels like a mismatch of riffs and ideas that just don't quite work; and is overly long for the sake of it. I do love the orchestral section in IT however...

[Cool Chris]

But to me, the opening could be shorter and more concise and the ending can easily be trimmed. It feels like it just takes so long to get going and so long to end. The solo could easily have been streamlined....

The songs this applies to could make a whole double album.

[jayvee3]

But to me, the opening could be shorter and more concise and the ending can easily be trimmed. It feels like it just takes so long to get going and so long to end. The solo could easily have been streamlined....

The songs this applies to could make a whole double album.

Haha, true. I think some of them everything fits well - even something new like the Alien - the time seems to just fly by for a nearly 10 minute song. But for Nightmare - I dunno - it just seems a bit clunky. I feel similar about many of the songs in the AA saga too, so maybe we could start our double album there... 

[MinistroRaven]

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[Kotowboy]

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it do be like that sometimes...

[BeatriceNB]

I don't agree with the notion of Beautiful Agony needing to be two separate songs. It's full of references to the main song, is connected lyrically to it, transitions smoothly from & back into it, & largely works because of how well it contrasts. Isolating it would make it into a Wither clone & would take away what I find special about it.

I could understand the argument of thinking the solo tradeoff should've gone straight into the final chorus (cutting 10:28-13:20), but I disagree with that too. I think it works fine as it is, because the heavy part adds more variety & the riffs afterward make the transition to the final chorus smoother.

I think ANTR handles its length a lot better than disc 1 of SDOIT, most of TOT, & the Octavarium title track, personally.

TOT I understand, but imagine listening to it intentionally, couldn't be me.
But SDOIT disc 1, when disc 2 exists and it takes 9 minutes to reference Metallica pointlessly? Lmao. And Octavarium is the only epic (next to Illumination Theory) that seems to have sense of direction and structure.

[bosk1]

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

One day I will understand why so many people don't like this section.

I have mixed feelings about that section.  On its own, it is incredible.  As part of IT, structurally, it really shows some incredible songwriting ingenuity.  I understand exactly why it is there and what it is doing, and it is brilliant.  And yet, I'm not always in the mood to deal with the song speeding along at full speed, only to come to a grinding halt and lose all momentum, and then take right off at full speed again.  It is jarring, even though that is intentional and I understand it, and I find that distracting.  To this day, it is hard for me to reconcile those two things.  If I am listening to the song to enjoy and appreciate the songwriting, playing, and structure:  10/10.  If I am listening to have an enjoyable musical experience:  ..."something-less-than-10"/10.  It's hard to explain any better than that.

[Peter Mc]

The first few times I heard IT, the orchestral section actually brought me to tears.  As time has gone on though, I have got to the point where the combination of the ambient section and orchestral section are just too long and I just want the song to get back going.  I would never edit it out as it's part of the song but it has become something I wish wasn't there or at least was a much shorter break in the song.

[Stadler]

For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.

Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.

The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.

Anyone else surprised? 

[Architeuthis]

Stadler, I just now realized that it's Alex Lifeson in your avatar..