DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[lucasembarbosa]

Did Jordan gave away any info during yesterday's Patreon live chat?

[illusionist]

The calm before the storm..

[DoctorAction]

It sure is calm.   

[Zydar]

[Kotowboy]

I'm hoping that one day we get a complete info dump. Like Metallica did for Hardwired...Months of silence then one day in August

" Oh hey heres our new single, new video, new album title, all the track titles and album cover. It's out in November enjoy ! "

I love when Metallica do that. Like announcing TBA remastered one day suddenly with no clue and also releasing Sandman Remastered etc.

It's way more exciting than getting drip fed information.

[jonny108]

I think that's what they are going to do.  Although timeline afaik is August album news, late September album release.

[RoeDent]

Unless they're going to buck the trend, late September's a bit soon for a release if we're not getting info until August. Mid-October at the earliest is my guess.

[lucasembarbosa]

Or they can do like A7X did when releasing The Stage. They announced the album the day it was released.

[gzarruk]

Or they can do like A7X did when releasing The Stage. They announced the album the day it was released.

Not going to happen under Inside Out

Unless they're going to buck the trend, late September's a bit soon for a release if we're not getting info until August. Mid-October at the earliest is my guess.

They've said a couple times that they were aiming for a September-ish release, but it could've been moved to October, we just don't knoy anything yet.

My bet is that they're not announcing anything untill August because there's two LNF Archives releases coming in June (tomorrow?) and July, so they probably want those 2 out before starting the promotion cycle for DT15.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Or they can do like A7X did when releasing The Stage. They announced the album the day it was released.

That was a marketing nightmare. Even A7X said they'd never do that again

[Kotowboy]

Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.

Put it out on Spotify the day / week it has been mastered - and THEN do the 3 months of promo and singles / vids etc. Plus it being on Spotify is also marketing / promo in itself.

[nikatapi]

I'm hyped even if we have no news. DoT was a great album which i still listen to quite often. I'd like to see more "epic" songs this time, with crazy instrumental sections, let's see if my wish is granted.
I wonder if LTE work had any effect on the Dream Theater album and maybe gave some inspiration to John and Jordan.

[Fritzinger]

Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.

Put it out on Spotify the day / week it has been mastered - and THEN do the 3 months of promo and singles / vids etc. Plus it being on Spotify is also marketing / promo in itself.

That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.

[Kotowboy]

Kotowboy : posts

DTF : NO.

[KevShmev]

That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.

There is something to be said though for being surprised.  Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!"  That would be so awesome.  Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good.  In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release?  Nah.  This isn't 1994 anymore.

[Kotowboy]

Careful kev - folks round ere dont like when you actually agree with the kotowboy!

[Ben_Jamin]

That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.

There is something to be said though for being surprised.  Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!"  That would be so awesome.  Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good.  In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release?  Nah.  This isn't 1994 anymore.

The whole purpose of marketing an album is to draw attention to it so it can boost sales on release day.

The Stage was a marketing nightmare because it flopped without the attention marketing a product draws. The sales that day could have been higher if they got attention from the people first.

I myself don't care if a band releases an album straight away without marketing. It won't affect how I will listen to the album. I would actually prefer bands to release albums when their done, without the marketing. But I also understand the reasoning behind marketing.

And the only reason big names can do it, is because their draw and attention is based on name only, and not really the music. They also have the media to hype their album for them when released as the daytime talk show hosts will mention anything about these highly talked about celebrity bands. Like Radiohead, Foo Fighters, Metallica and Taylor Swift.

[Enigmachine]

The Stage was a marketing nightmare because it flopped without the attention marketing a product draws. The sales that day could have been higher if they got attention from the people first.

I feel like this is what people miss when people talk about The Stage. It was a neat experiment, sure. However, it didn't pay off and I doubt others will be willing to take that sort of risk for the sake of just saying "hey look, wasn't that a bit different?"

[Ben_Jamin]

The Stage was a marketing nightmare because it flopped without the attention marketing a product draws. The sales that day could have been higher if they got attention from the people first.

I feel like this is what people miss when people talk about The Stage. It was a neat experiment, sure. However, it didn't pay off and I doubt others will be willing to take that sort of risk for the sake of just saying "hey look, wasn't that a bit different?"

Yup. It was great for us fans. But the band took a potential profit blow.

I'm thinking they likely barely broke even. I do wonder if some bands rely on the album sales and tour to pay off the costs associated with making the album and creating the tour? Hence, why bands tour after an album release, and the reason for marketing the album months in advance and why they have these Deluxe Box Set bundles.

[Fritzinger]

That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.

There is something to be said though for being surprised.  Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!"  That would be so awesome.  Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good.  In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release?  Nah.  This isn't 1994 anymore.

In this day and age? Yes. In a day and age where you can always stream everything you want, I think we need it more than 1994 (although I admit I wasn't consciously around back then because I was 1 year old).. If there isn't any build up to any release by any band, music becomes even more inflationary. Stuff just gets thrown out there, "here, you can now listen to our whole new album that we recorded last month". Sure, I am no fan of releasing half an album prior to its release (I even NEVER listen to singles released before the album drops). But releasing stuff without any promotion and notification on streaming services with no physical release at all would kill off a lot of excitement (for me). I love Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, but I really didn't like that it was released digitally first and on a physical medium months after. Coincidentally, it also collides with the acoustic, "handmade" character of those albums.

Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.

And what about people who don't use streaming services? They are just not able to listen to it for three more months?

[Ben_Jamin]

That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.

There is something to be said though for being surprised.  Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!"  That would be so awesome.  Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good.  In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release?  Nah.  This isn't 1994 anymore.

In this day and age? Yes. In a day and age where you can always stream everything you want, I think we need it more than 1994 (although I admit I wasn't consciously around back then because I was 1 year old).. If there isn't any build up to any release by any band, music becomes even more inflationary. Stuff just gets thrown out there, "here, you can now listen to our whole new album that we recorded last month". Sure, I am no fan of releasing half an album prior to its release (I even NEVER listen to singles released before the album drops). But releasing stuff without any promotion and notification on streaming services with no physical release at all would kill off a lot of excitement (for me). I love Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, but I really didn't like that it was released digitally first and on a physical medium months after. Coincidentally, it also collides with the acoustic, "handmade" character of those albums.

Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.

And what about people who don't use streaming services? They are just not able to listen to it for three more months?

Pretty much, Yes. As the people who do use streaming services are the target audience now. And their interests are not in those who do not have streaming services. Whatever makes more money is where their interests will follow.

It's a reason why for physical releases, the musicians/labels/whomever rely on people buying those Deluxe Box Sets. It's why they fancy them up with as much crap to convince people it's worth buying the Boxset for that price. Which is another reason why I laughed and applaud Steven Wilson for even making that 10,000 BP Deluxe Box Set. The Future Bites is an album whose concept is based off consumerism, and music is a big part of consumerism.

Inside Out does a great job at their marketing, it's no wonder why DT decided to go with them. Anticipation is another great marketing strategy, you keep your consumer in that anticipation just long enough then bam, release the kraken. And it draws it up even higher.

Look at BTBAM and how big Colors 2 blew up with their anticipation for their reveal on Liquid Metal. And their hints, of the Color album style of the fonts and background to those announcements. The hype ended up shutting down their site. 

I also forgot about Transatlantics epic marketing situation that just so happened to occur because of a personal musical difference. You got 3 dfferent versions of the album to sell, that's 3 different products, and the target audience consumer will definitely buy all 3 albums. And even funnier fan demand got the best, as people did not want to buy the big deluxe box set just for the new ultimate mix. Which resulted in a standalone Blu-ray release. 

[Dedalus]

Pretty much, Yes. As the people who do use streaming services are the target audience now. And their interests are not in those who do not have streaming services. Whatever makes more money is where their interests will follow.

It's a reason why for physical releases, the musicians/labels/whomever rely on people buying those Deluxe Box Sets. It's why they fancy them up with as much crap to convince people it's worth buying the Boxset for that price. Which is another reason why I laughed and applaud Steven Wilson for even making that 10,000 BP Deluxe Box Set. The Future Bites is an album whose concept is based off consumerism, and music is a big part of consumerism.

Inside Out does a great job at their marketing, it's no wonder why DT decided to go with them. Anticipation is another great marketing strategy, you keep your consumer in that anticipation just long enough then bam, release the kraken. And it draws it up even higher.

Look at BTBAM and how big Colors 2 blew up with their anticipation for their reveal on Liquid Metal. And their hints, of the Color album style of the fonts and background to those announcements. The hype ended up shutting down their site. 

I also forgot about Transatlantics epic marketing situation that just so happened to occur because of a personal musical difference. You got 3 dfferent versions of the album to sell, that's 3 different products, and the target audience consumer will definitely buy all 3 albums. And even funnier fan demand got the best, as people did not want to buy the big deluxe box set just for the new ultimate mix. Which resulted in a standalone Blu-ray release. 

The ULTRA DELUXE MUSIC PRODUCT ON OBSOLETE MEDIA LIMITED EDITION OF ONE? 

[Ben_Jamin]

Pretty much, Yes. As the people who do use streaming services are the target audience now. And their interests are not in those who do not have streaming services. Whatever makes more money is where their interests will follow.

It's a reason why for physical releases, the musicians/labels/whomever rely on people buying those Deluxe Box Sets. It's why they fancy them up with as much crap to convince people it's worth buying the Boxset for that price. Which is another reason why I laughed and applaud Steven Wilson for even making that 10,000 BP Deluxe Box Set. The Future Bites is an album whose concept is based off consumerism, and music is a big part of consumerism.

Inside Out does a great job at their marketing, it's no wonder why DT decided to go with them. Anticipation is another great marketing strategy, you keep your consumer in that anticipation just long enough then bam, release the kraken. And it draws it up even higher.

Look at BTBAM and how big Colors 2 blew up with their anticipation for their reveal on Liquid Metal. And their hints, of the Color album style of the fonts and background to those announcements. The hype ended up shutting down their site. 

I also forgot about Transatlantics epic marketing situation that just so happened to occur because of a personal musical difference. You got 3 dfferent versions of the album to sell, that's 3 different products, and the target audience consumer will definitely buy all 3 albums. And even funnier fan demand got the best, as people did not want to buy the big deluxe box set just for the new ultimate mix. Which resulted in a standalone Blu-ray release. 

The ULTRA DELUXE MUSIC PRODUCT ON OBSOLETE MEDIA LIMITED EDITION OF ONE? 

Exactly...

At least the proceeds went towards a charity for music. 

[IDontNotDoThings]

I think the marketing & artificial hype that goes into an album's pre-release is only a necessity because of the society we live in. I could certainly live without bands doing it, or at least with them only doing it for a couple weeks, but I get why they would need to.

[RMGadelha]

Yeah, I also understand why they do it, but I would personally love a short promotion cycle, because I know I don't have the willpower some other people here do to not listen to singles prior to the release date, so with a shorter cycle I wouldn't be oversaturated with the singles ;p

[pg1067]

the marketing & artificial hype 0that goes into an album's pre-release. . . .  I could certainly live without bands doing it

Ditto.  I open this thread every now and then but rarely post.  Just let me know when the album is ready for me to buy.  This is especially true with a band like DT, which gets out its new releases pretty quickly, so it's not like I'm sitting around for eight years waiting for the next album.

[KevShmev]

In this day and age? Yes. In a day and age where you can always stream everything you want, I think we need it more than 1994 (although I admit I wasn't consciously around back then because I was 1 year old).. If there isn't any build up to any release by any band, music becomes even more inflationary. Stuff just gets thrown out there, "here, you can now listen to our whole new album that we recorded last month". Sure, I am no fan of releasing half an album prior to its release (I even NEVER listen to singles released before the album drops). But releasing stuff without any promotion and notification on streaming services with no physical release at all would kill off a lot of excitement (for me). I love Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, but I really didn't like that it was released digitally first and on a physical medium months after. Coincidentally, it also collides with the acoustic, "handmade" character of those albums.

Fair points.  The artists who are very mainstream certainly have the advantage when it comes to sudden drops of an album versus a band like Dream Theater who is more underground and just on the fringes of kinda, sorta being mainstream.

Maybe I have a different view since I do not stream, but I get what you are saying. 

[Dream Team]

Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: "what's today's hit song I'm supposed to listen to and like?") it's important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.

[Kotowboy]

Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: "what's today's hit song I'm supposed to listen to and like?") it's important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.

You just reminded me of something my 15 yr old brother actually said.

He was listening to Spotify pop or something and I said " why are you listening to that ? " and his response was along the lines of " Because it's new and trendy " and not " Because I like it "

and I was like " so you only listen to what Spotify tells you to ? " and he was like " ...yeah ? " . 

They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.

[SwedishGoose]

Instead of releasing early for streamers they could dp it like for instance A.C.T did with their latest EP.
Release the physical media first and then the streams two months later.

The fans buy it and get to listen early while casual listeners get to wait.

To me that is the proper way to do it and not the other way around.

[Fritzinger]

Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: "what's today's hit song I'm supposed to listen to and like?") it's important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.

You just reminded me of something my 15 yr old brother actually said.

He was listening to Spotify pop or something and I said " why are you listening to that ? " and his response was along the lines of " Because it's new and trendy " and not " Because I like it "

and I was like " so you only listen to what Spotify tells you to ? " and he was like " ...yeah ? " . 

They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.

Not to sound pretentious or so, but I think most people in my age and below don't. I'm 28 and at university and many people here are 4-5 years younger than me. Very few of them are actually "fans" of an artist. Sure, they like some music, not always because it's trendy (but I think many KNOW music because it's trendy and because it's being played everywhere now). But very few actually say "oh I like this song, I should listen to what more music this artist has put out".

[Madman Shepherd]

They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.

On the flipside, people like you and me will never know the joy of being able to just coast through life and have a bunch of casual trendy interests. I don't truly wish I had that ability but there are times when I get lost in the thought that, "This would be so nice to moderately follow for a year or two and then forget about."

[darkshade]

Instead of releasing early for streamers they could dp it like for instance A.C.T did with their latest EP.
Release the physical media first and then the streams two months later.

The fans buy it and get to listen early while casual listeners get to wait.

To me that is the proper way to do it and not the other way around.

This is a great idea. Those who cant wait will buy.

[Setlist Scotty]

Instead of releasing early for streamers they could dp it like for instance A.C.T did with their latest EP.
Release the physical media first and then the streams two months later.

The fans buy it and get to listen early while casual listeners get to wait.

To me that is the proper way to do it and not the other way around.

This is a great idea. Those who cant wait will buy.

It sounds good, but I suspect there still would be loop holes in a plan like this. If nothing else, I can easily see some schmuck uploading it to YouTube and it getting streamed that way. Aside from artists like Metallica and Taylor Swift, I doubt the YouTube voice police would crack down on any/all uploads of that material.

[Dedalus]

You sound like those parents who saw Elvis or Chuck Berry for the first time, were horrified and said the youth/music was over.