DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[bosk1]

That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15

Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.

He has the skills and prestige, but not the experience of being in a band as a full member. This is where he is learning and mentioned In that interview, how he had to earn that respect because he is new to the operations of how the band actually works behind the scenes, and all that is involved. This includes the process that goes with making albums. It's just a simple respect given to an already established band before making demands.

That all sounds logical, and is very well reasoned.  But it is not supported by the facts we know.  That might have been sort of true for ADTOE.  But I would word it slightly differently because it wasn't about him "earning respect" as much as it was simply the existing band wanting to keep a very tight rein on the songwriting process at that time because it was a critical transition period for them, and they wanted to have the end product come out a very specific way. 

Within the confines of how the band was writing back then, the band had opened up, and MM was contributing with DT12.  Maybe not to the extent we might all have liked.  But from what has been said both by MM and the rest of the band, that was simply a factor of him being new to writing with the band.  It is going to be an evolution with any new member where that person contributes more and more over time as he and the band become more and more comfortable and he becomes more comfortable with the writing process.  That is what happened with DT12, and what we have seen throughout his tenure.  The only exception, really, is The Astonishing.  And as Hef pointed out, that was a VERY unique situation where the ONLY composers were JP and Jordan, because they were doing something very specific and both the process and the end product to turn out a specific way.  Yes, MM was not part of that writing process.  But neither were James and JMX.  That album is just the "odd" exception.

When we finally get to D/T, the "change" is really just a continuation of the evolution we already saw happening with DT12, as well as the overall change in writing/composing that the band decided on (which has also been an evolution from the process when MP was in the band). 

So I really don't think it is about "earning respect" at all, or at least not to any significant degree.

[Max Kuehnau]

Side note: During MM's recent interview on YT (which was linked here), he mentioned his solo album is already finished, although not released yet. Carry on.

[Ben_Jamin]

That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15

Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.

He has the skills and prestige, but not the experience of being in a band as a full member. This is where he is learning and mentioned In that interview, how he had to earn that respect because he is new to the operations of how the band actually works behind the scenes, and all that is involved. This includes the process that goes with making albums. It's just a simple respect given to an already established band before making demands.

That all sounds logical, and is very well reasoned.  But it is not supported by the facts we know.  That might have been sort of true for ADTOE.  But I would word it slightly differently because it wasn't about him "earning respect" as much as it was simply the existing band wanting to keep a very tight rein on the songwriting process at that time because it was a critical transition period for them, and they wanted to have the end product come out a very specific way. 

Within the confines of how the band was writing back then, the band had opened up, and MM was contributing with DT12.  Maybe not to the extent we might all have liked.  But from what has been said both by MM and the rest of the band, that was simply a factor of him being new to writing with the band.  It is going to be an evolution with any new member where that person contributes more and more over time as he and the band become more and more comfortable and he becomes more comfortable with the writing process.  That is what happened with DT12, and what we have seen throughout his tenure.  The only exception, really, is The Astonishing.  And as Hef pointed out, that was a VERY unique situation where the ONLY composers were JP and Jordan, because they were doing something very specific and both the process and the end product to turn out a specific way.  Yes, MM was not part of that writing process.  But neither were James and JMX.  That album is just the "odd" exception.

When we finally get to D/T, the "change" is really just a continuation of the evolution we already saw happening with DT12, as well as the overall change in writing/composing that the band decided on (which has also been an evolution from the process when MP was in the band). 

So I really don't think it is about "earning respect" at all, or at least not to any significant degree.

I understand and agree...

It was in reply to the phrase he used with "Earn the right and respect to being involved"

Which is where I got the respect term from and why I used it.

But i should've worded it differently and added "In a sense"....

I enjoy what Mangini has contributed thus far, and am enjoying where this evolution is going. When you focus in on his Drumming, he has some great drum parts, he has some good ones in The Astonishing too.

[Max Kuehnau]

Oh most definitely. Some of what he played on TA is related (rhythmically) to some sections in PBD. He puts a lot of thought in his parts, which I love. Always did.

[illusionist]

Jordan Rudess interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OFtniqr6s

[Max Kuehnau]

Jordan Rudess interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OFtniqr6s

the hype is real (to me)

[KevShmev]

Jordan Rudess interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OFtniqr6s

the hype is real (to me)

Feel free to post any highlights, since a nearly 2-hour interview is something I will not watch.

[Max Kuehnau]

hehe, yes, I definitely will, but I'll have to watch it myself again first.

[Enigmachine]

Scanning through it, I notice that at about 1 hr 38 mins, he says that there's a synthesised cello section and a distorted violin sound. At 17 mins, he also talks about how he's taken some inspiration from JP in making his solos a bit more composed. As well as that, he mentions that his lead solo tone is a bit "smoother and more pointed". At 1 hour 23 mins, there's also the implication that there's a lot of mini moog presence on the album and what we've heard before about him being the most proud of his keyboard sounds on this album. Bits and pieces, mostly. It probably would've been nice if the video itself was timestamped

[devieira73]

At least, at this point, it's pretty evident that the next album will be the more worked and thought out by all the band members in a loooong time.
I'm really curious to watch the Myung interview... seriously, if even HE is that excited for the album, I'm totally sure that it will be impossible for this album to meet MY expectations!

[gzarruk]

I wake up everyday reminding me we're one day closer to getting news about this album

I'm expecting a little teaser video, like the ones we got for LTE3 and Transatlantic, towards the end of the month and the proper album announcement the first week of June or so.

Slowly getting there.

[Dedalus]

At least, at this point, it's pretty evident that the next album will be the more worked and thought out by all the band members in a loooong time.
I'm really curious to watch the Myung interview... seriously, if even HE is that excited for the album, I'm totally sure that it will be impossible for this album to meet MY expectations!

Myung excited: "I think the new album is good"

[Ben_Jamin]

At least, at this point, it's pretty evident that the next album will be the more worked and thought out by all the band members in a loooong time.
I'm really curious to watch the Myung interview... seriously, if even HE is that excited for the album, I'm totally sure that it will be impossible for this album to meet MY expectations!

Myung: "I'm actually feeling kind of spooky."

[darkshade]

Myung excited: "I play bass on the new album."

[darkshade]

Aren't DT big in Japan? They could probably play a few big shows in Japan.

[Fritzinger]

Scanning through it, I notice that at about 1 hr 38 mins, he says that there's a synthesised cello section and a distorted violin sound. At 17 mins, he also talks about how he's taken some inspiration from JP in making his solos a bit more composed. As well as that, he mentions that his lead solo tone is a bit "smoother and more pointed". At 1 hour 23 mins, there's also the implication that there's a lot of mini moog presence on the album and what we've heard before about him being the most proud of his keyboard sounds on this album. Bits and pieces, mostly. It probably would've been nice if the video itself was timestamped

I think that's great! Jordan is a great improviser but I've been wanting to heard some Octavarium (Full Circle) Tony Banks like keyboard solos from him again.

[Dream Team]

Scanning through it, I notice that at about 1 hr 38 mins, he says that there's a synthesised cello section and a distorted violin sound. At 17 mins, he also talks about how he's taken some inspiration from JP in making his solos a bit more composed. As well as that, he mentions that his lead solo tone is a bit "smoother and more pointed". At 1 hour 23 mins, there's also the implication that there's a lot of mini moog presence on the album and what we've heard before about him being the most proud of his keyboard sounds on this album. Bits and pieces, mostly. It probably would've been nice if the video itself was timestamped

Oh that is good news. Have really not been a fan of a lot of his solos.

[gzarruk]

I think that back in the day (LTE1 & 2, SFAM, SDOIT) he would play more composed solos, or at least they sounded that way, vs later albums that just have JR going wild with some arpeggios and scales.

[Trav]

I think that back in the day (LTE1 & 2, SFAM, SDOIT) he would play more composed solos, or at least they sounded that way, vs later albums that just have JR going wild with some arpeggios and scales.

His solo in 'Home' is still my favorite, and that seems like it was composed.

[darkshade]

As time goes on, I realize JR is my least favorite aspect of modern DT, besides JLB processed vocals. He was great on the first few albums with the band, but slowly I have not been into his ideas as each album progresses. I agree most of his solos since 8vm seem like afterthoughts, and just flurries of notes that have my brain paying more attention to what is going on underneath while the solo is happening. Great example: The Shattered Fortress, and thankfully what is going on underneath is bad ass.

[Dream Team]

Yeah, he's been playing with JP for 23 years and JUST NOW he is realizing how JP spending time composing his solos makes most of them awesome  .

[gzarruk]

Yeah, he's been playing with JP for 23 years and JUST NOW he is realizing how JP spending time composing his solos makes most of them awesome  .

[Cool Chris]

Jordan's solos have been the least interesting and engaging part of DT's music for me, since, well.... he joined. That is a bit hyperbolic, but I am glad to see I do not appear to be alone in how I feel about his soloing.

[Ben_Jamin]

The way JR does his Keyboard solos like a guitar solo, is what I noticed and consider it the LTE influence that he brought in when he joined DT.

I like his other solos that are not like this, mainly his piano solos, and the ones with different tones like in Breaking All Illusions.

Which is why I am interested and a bit excited to hear that JR used different sounds and spent time crafting those sounds and tones.

[Zydar]

I like his solo in Beneath The Surface, that kind of Keith Emerson/Moog thing he does there.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

JR has written many great solos. From Kindred Spirits to Acid Rain, later with DT in songs like Home, The Test that Stumped Them All, The Glass Prison, Overture 1928 and so on. These solos kinda blew me away as a fellow keyboard player, I've never heard anyone doing crazy bends like that on a keyboard..
But unfortunately over the years his solos are well in my ears the same thing. It's like there's one take and that's that. Let's see how in the new album his new approach will improve the aspect of his solos.

[illusionist]

On the same boat here.
JR solos when structured and using his piano sounds are a delight to my ears.
Blind faith,On the backs of Angels,The Passage of time etc.
But when he is starting his keyboard wankery soloing i am not much into that.

I don't think JP hasn't thought about it too.
But i have come to conclude that in a band each member is responsible for his sounds and ideas.
Each one contributes to the song as a whole.
And there are compromises eventually,for an album to come out.
So,for JP,JM,MM,JLB to have the freedom to play,and sound, their way on the albums,JR should have the freedom to do his thing too,
for the band to operate optimally.

If they take away his freedom to choose his sounds and solos,i guess there won't be a reason for him to be in a band
where they don't respect his creative contributions.
So,long story short,he is the only responsible for his solos and his sounds.

He seems to be quite comfortable using improvisation for most of his solos,as he is known for this aspect of his playing.
Maybe he doesn't want to think a lot about them,or he just thinks his improvised solos sound cool.
Plus,he is using the snorling pig sound for almost 90% of his solos,which is really annoying after some time.
I am waiting to see what he has come up with this time,and the evidence look very promising.
I want more melodic solos and sounds and atmospheres,like SFAM and the most melodic DT songs.
After all,if JR can't,or doesn't,sound like that,as a classically educated musician that he is,who will?

[Mladen]

This isn't the first time Jordan claims Petrucci pushed him to do a more melodic and structured rather than improvised solo.

We learned in an interview back in 2011 that John requested more melody from the keyboard solo in Lost not forgotten. When you listen to the section in question, you can tell Jordan heeded the advice.

[Trav]

This isn't the first time Jordan claims Petrucci pushed him to do a more melodic and structured rather than improvised solo.

We learned in an interview back in 2011 that John requested more melody from the keyboard solo in Lost not forgotten. When you listen to the section in question, you can tell Jordan heeded the advice.

Yeah, I was going to mention that this was his best solo since 6DOIT. Obviously, this is why. Also, Beneath the Surface and Along for the Ride have great solos that are melodic and have a "shape" to them. Also, just saying, I love most of the parts and sounds Jordan creates. Other than solos...since about 2003.

[Ben_Jamin]

This isn't the first time Jordan claims Petrucci pushed him to do a more melodic and structured rather than improvised solo.

We learned in an interview back in 2011 that John requested more melody from the keyboard solo in Lost not forgotten. When you listen to the section in question, you can tell Jordan heeded the advice.

Yeah, I was going to mention that this was his best solo since 6DOIT. Obviously, this is why. Also, Beneath the Surface and Along for the Ride have great solos that are melodic and have a "shape" to them. Also, just saying, I love most of the parts and sounds Jordan creates. Other than solos...since about 2003.

Same here, I love his sounds and atmosphere he creates with his sound choices other than his solos.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Jordan is arguably the best composer in the band, which is why it's so disappointing that he takes a more improvisational approach to his solos. His best solos are always the ones that are mostly composed with some fast, improvised flourishes sprinkled in. Solos like Octavarium, Along For the Ride, Lost Not Forgotten, Beneath the Surface, and everything on Scenes From a Memory show how great his solos can be when he mostly ditches the improv and uses his incredible composition skills.

[Ben_Jamin]

Jordan is arguably the best composer in the band, which is why it's so disappointing that he takes a more improvisational approach to his solos. His best solos are always the ones that are mostly composed with some fast, improvised flourishes sprinkled in. Solos like Octavarium, Along For the Ride, Lost Not Forgotten, Beneath the Surface, and everything on Scenes From a Memory show how great his solos can be when he mostly ditches the improv and uses his incredible composition skills.

That could also be an effect of having to write and record an album within a short time span. And JR couldn't find the time, or however he prefers to compose solos, to compose the solos, and instead just jam soloed on the metal songs.

The metal songs, are where I hear more of this JR noodling.

The Astonishing, had none of this. And this is where I think, JR really had some good composed solos and parts. You eat JR composition, The Astonishing is entirely his and JPs. Mainly JR as he is all over this album with his chords, tones, and sounds setting the atmosphere and emotion for each Place of Setting, and Character.

[Kyo]

I think it's not just about whether they are improvised. My feeling is that Jordan usually gets much more enjoyable results soloing over chord progressions than he does soloing over riffs. Sadly, the latter is the typical context of his solos in DT, and so we get a lot of what sounds like somewhat random streams of crazy bends, fast runs and squeals, and only occasionally a glimpse of a melody or some thematic development within the solo.

Back when he joined the band, I was hoping we'd hear more along the lines of that fabulous ending solo of Crossing Over (Rudess Morgenstein Project) from him once he was freed of the time constraints of LTE sessions. Sadly, things didn't really work out that way.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Back when he joined the band, I was hoping we'd hear more along the lines of that fabulous ending solo of Crossing Over (Rudess Morgenstein Project) from him once he was freed of the time constraints of LTE sessions.

That's very interesting to say that, because I think I felt that too back in the day. Besides LTE that was my second real introduction to JR and what kind of a keyboard player he was..and boy was I impressed..still am! I was so hardcore that I even listened to the Kurweil 2600 demos like Over the Edge and It's a Mystery..crazy times!

[emtee]

Hate to pile on JR but I agree 100% with these comments. How many of his solos are earworms you can hum or whistle along with? He moved in more melodic direction with TA though. Looking forward to hear his approach on the next one.