Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[The Letter M]

https://youtu.be/mf4vGLSDVuI

Out Of Reach track by track video

-Marc.

[erwinrafael]

They came up with the music in half an hour!

[Zook]

The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.

[YtseJamittaja]

To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof:  I really don't get what you are talking about.  The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.

I just don't have that feeling that there's strong enough choruses on the record. Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses, the best chorus is on Viper King. Now when you mentioned it I think that's the main problem for me on D/T

[cramx3]

S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more

[bosk1]

Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses...

And, again, I have no idea what that means or how the choruses in those songs could be considered "weak."  Makes no sense to me.  I'm not even sure what you mean.

[MirrorMask]

S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more

Same here, and I've probably be the most critical of the choruses. S2N's one is one of the best of the album.

[Zook]

To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof:  I really don't get what you are talking about.  The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.

I just don't have that feeling that there's strong enough choruses on the record. Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses, the best chorus is on Viper King. Now when you mentioned it I think that's the main problem for me on D/T

I'll give you Paralyzed and PBD, but S2N has a great singable chorus. I dont think PBD's chorus was a priority. That song is all about the instrument. Besides, what they lack in choruses, they make up for in other aspects.

[erwinrafael]

The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.

As noted a few pages ago, the Billboard today is not comparable to the Billboard before as it now includes streaming in platforms like Soundcloud and Spotify, which is why there are so many artists there that have been there for more than two years already.

If you look, however, at the chart of actual album sales, which was what was taken into account in the Billboard rankings of their albums pre-Astonishing, D/T ranked number 5, which surpassed the ranking of BC&SL which held the record before at #6.

https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

Considering that the album was released during the week of the Oscars, and two of the top-selling albums are film soundtracks that got the Oscar boost, I would say that D/T's ranking is impressive.

[cramx3]

Paralyzed I can see, I guess. It's just very simple, but also kind of fun to just sing "I am paralyzedddd" I dont know, I like it but I guess I can understand how one might think it's weak.  But S2N is like the catchiest chorus on the album, it's fantastic.  I don't know how one would find it weak at all.  I haven't even listened to the song today but I've been singing that chorus in my head all day.

The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.

As noted a few pages ago, the Billboard today is not comparable to the Billboard before as it now includes streaming in platforms like Soundcloud and Spotify, which is why there are so many artists there that have been there for more than two years already.

If you look, however, at the chart of actual album sales, which was what was taken into account in the Billboard rankings of their albums pre-Astonishing, D/T ranked number 5, which surpassed the ranking of BC&SL which held the record before at #6.

https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

Considering that the album was released during the week of the Oscars, and two of the top-selling albums are film soundtracks that got the Oscar boost, I would say that D/T's ranking is impressive.

Yea, the 24 is not that interesting. #5 in albums sales is impressive though.  I'm very happy for DT.

[erwinrafael]

So to confirm that D/T did surpass BC&SL in the comparable rankings, here is the album sales chart that one would generate for the week of Black Clouds' release:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales/2009-07-11

Yep, #6. So D/T ranking #5 means that this is their highest Billboard position using comparable metrics.

Interestingly, if one would generate a similar chart for The Astonishing, it actually hit #6 also.

[The Letter M]

So I'm not sure if this was brought up, but watching the AWE Track-by-track video, they mentioned it was the first song they wrote, which doesn't surprise me because I believe it was John (or maybe MP) who said that whenever they reconvene for a new album, they typically write their longest song first.

-Marc.

[erwinrafael]

I guess the exception would be StR, which was the first song written for DT12?

[The Letter M]

I guess the exception would be StR, which was the first song written for DT12?

Was it? Actually, does anyone have a list of which songs were written in which order for every DT album? It would be interesting to know, and I think we know more about that for d/t since the band members have actively said which song was "Song ##" when talking about the album.

-Marc.

[erwinrafael]

Yep. John Myung said it.

https://forbassplayersonly.com/interview-john-myung/

[fadetoblackdude7]

Right, ITPOE was first for SC

[countoftuscany42]

To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good

This could be why d/t started low.  I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.

Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases).  I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.

It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.

That is actually quite good.

Might have been higher if Inside Out got their act together. I still haven't received my box set. Many people still haven't even received their single cd.

But if you had preordered the album before the week one numbers were reported, then InsideOut's delays would have no impact on sales numbers. A purchase is a purchase

[Madman Shepherd]

To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good

This could be why d/t started low.  I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.

Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases).  I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.

It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.

That is actually quite good.

Might have been higher if Inside Out got their act together. I still haven't received my box set. Many people still haven't even received their single cd.

But if you had preordered the album before the week one numbers were reported, then InsideOut's delays would have no impact on sales numbers. A purchase is a purchase

A preorder is not a purchase on Amazon. Your card isn't charged until it ships.

[The Letter M]

Right, ITPOE was first for SC

That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?

-Marc.

[goo-goo]

For sales, it doesn't matter how many purchases/pre-orders were made. The sales counts as how many units the label shifted to retail stores. The retail stores purchased those units. So in theory, yes, the lack of units in amazon (orders being delayed) may have affected the charts. But let's say if Amazon ordered 10k CDs and only got 5k, then the 10k counts towards the charts (not the 5k, even though 5k units were not fulfilled).

[YtseJamittaja]

Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses...

And, again, I have no idea what that means or how the choruses in those songs could be considered "weak."  Makes no sense to me.  I'm not even sure what you mean.

S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more

Yeah I changed S2N to R137, my mistake. S2N has okay chorus. But yes, I just don't feel that I could jam on these choruses. If I compare these choruses to for example choruses like These Walls, Lie, Take The Time, The Bigger Picture or Endless Sacrifice, these D/T choruses are quite toneless, like those are not so uplifting, memorable, banging. Not bad at all but not their best. But it's just my opinion. Hopefully these songs will grow after a few spins.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Right, ITPOE was first for SC

That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?

-Marc.

Thought I read somewhere that ANTR was first for BC&SL but I could be wrong.

[Rattlehead]

I was previously on the fence about getting tickets to see them in NJ next month since it's on a work night for me... after listening to this album, it was a no brainer and I bought tickets today 

[BelichickFan]

I don't get this "chorus" thing. Dream Theater isn't a chorus band. They have some but a lot of their best tracks aren't built around the chorus. If I want a sing along, memorable chorus I'll listen to Iron Maiden. I listen to Dream Theater for the instrumentation and often like the verses, or other non chorus vocal lines, more than the chorus. I would be fine with no chorus in a whole Dream Theater album. Where is the chorus in Metropolis anyway?

OK, off to listen to Number of the Beast - I need a good chorus.

[gzarruk]

I don't get this "chorus" thing. Dream Theater isn't a chorus band. They have some but a lot of their best tracks aren't built around the chorus. If I want a sing along, memorable chorus I'll listen to Iron Maiden. I listen to Dream Theater for the instrumentation and often like the verses, or other non chorus vocal lines, more than the chorus. I would be fine with no chorus in a whole Dream Theater album. Where is the chorus in Metropolis anyway?

This. If people want a catchy, poppy chorus, just go listen to Nightwish or something
Having said that, I have no issues with the choruses in D/T. UA, FITL, BW and specially S2N have great choruses and have had these stuck in my head for days without even listening to the songs that much (don't want to burn out the album too soon, it's too good).

[NunoBadmintoncourt]

Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.

Has the band ever made this claim?

[BelichickFan]

Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.

Has the band ever made this claim?

Of course not but there's been a few comments in this thread about a lack of memorable choruses.

[spw5150]

This album sounds so inspired.  I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when they were writing it.  They had to be giddy jamming these riffs into the songs they turned out to be.  Everyone is firing on all cylinders.  The drum sound is amazing and full of life compared to the other Mangini albums.  I cannot get enough.   Not a bad song on the album.

My favorites as of right now are Barstool Warrior, At Wits End and Out of Reach for the emotion.  I love the idea and groove of Room 137 and S2N.  PBD is a monster instrumentally.  The released songs are really good but are my least favorites.   Viper King is a great jam with the DP/VH vibe and the Full Bug like guitar riff.   Bravo DT ,  you knocked it out of the park with this one.

[Bertielee]

Honestly, JP may really be the MVP on all DT albums, but, man, MM is on fire on D/T! So, this is how he sounds when he has a real say in what he does? OK, gimme that every day!

B.Lee

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I think the issues arises when the majority of tracks on DoT tout more conventional verse-chorus-verse structures, but fall short when the vocal melodies on display are lackluster to the ears. They lack the catchy-ness of DT's more contemporary influenced sounds (see: Octavarium), and the powerful deliveries of their more emotionally charged songs (see: Scenes From a Memory).

[Bertielee]

I think the issues arises when the majority of tracks on DoT tout more conventional verse-chorus-verse structures, but fall short when the vocal melodies on display are lackluster to the ears. They lack the catchy-ness of DT's more contemporary influenced sounds (see: Octavarium), and the powerful deliveries of their more emotionally charged songs (see: Scenes From a Memory).

Music is extraordinary, because to me, the vocal melodies are the perfect fit for the songs on D/T. Whether it's to everyone's taste is another thing.

B.Lee

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Of course. I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. I can very well see how it works for others where it doesn't work much for me. Keeping in mind that I actually do enjoy some of the choruses on the record, just not as much compared to some of the band's greats.

[MirrorMask]

About the choruses.... I don't want to be the negative guy and keep in mind that as I wrote some pages ago I actually like the album, and I don't think there's a single bad song on it, but the point is not that DT had or should have choruses like "RUN TO THE HIIILS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVEEEES" or "EEEEXIT LIIIGHT, ENTER NIIIGHT".

Still, they always had good choruses, which were the clear climaxes of the song no matter their intensity; without going too far back in time, I dare anyone to listen for the first time to On the Back of Angels or The Looking Glass and not realize that their choruses were, well, the choruses (Just to not play it too easy with bombastic stuff like Bridges in the Sky or Behind the Veil).

Never with a DT album before I went through more than one song on the same album expecting the song to climax into a chorus, only to realize later that the chorus was what sounded like a bridge. This happened with Fall into the Light and Room 137 mostly, I'd count also Barstool Warrior in the category but by now I've come to feel the chorus more as a chorus and not something that, after the second repetition, would have went into something even more grandiose (see Bridges in the Sky for example).

Again, I like the album, and not every song has to have the same structure nor have the same intensity, it's just that no matter the style of the song, the intensity, the vibe, never before I had so many "wait, where's the chorus?" moments, not even on the first listenings when the albums were new. If you listen to Fall into the Light and to you the "Too much love will set you free" section stands out the same way a "I'm running from the enemy inside" or "Lost not forgotten, reigning against the odds" does, good for you, but to me it took forever to get used to them.

It's hard to explain, and probably if I were musically educated I could point out to more precise stuff, it's just like the songs prepare you for something that should happen.... but it actually doesn't. I guess it's something subjective, and that there other cases in the discography when to me a song would feel just complete but someone would point "I totally expected them to do something in this part of that song but they didn't".

[erwinrafael]

Hmmmm...I think Room 137 is not designed to have the chorus as the climax. It's climax is the psychedelia section.

I already stopped looking for a chorus in DT songs ever since I heard Metropolis Pt. 1. 

[MirrorMask]

Oh well, for sure not every song has to be a chorus, nor the chorus has to be the most standout part of the song. I was just pointing out how, since after all all the songs of the new album do have a chorus, especially during the first listenings they didn't even look like that, that's all.