DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on February 20, 2019, 09:28:57 AM
-
Since the album will be officially released in some countries in a matter of minutes, it is time to let the official discussion begin. Those that have it legitimately, whether receiving an advance promo, having gotten their pre-order early, or being in a time zone where it is Friday are free to discuss.
As always, discussion of leaks or other illegal means of obtaining the album is prohibited and will result in being banned from this forum.
So...who's excited? :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine:
-
New intrview with Mike Mangini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM8_AQtPMyY
-
I love the interview JLB and JP did in Italy, the lady conducting it really knows what she's talking about and asks genuinely good question, none of the usual "what's your favorite track on the new record" bull shit.
On that interview JP said that the original album cover was the D/T mathematical format but they got some push back on it from the record company so they asked HS for something else. I guess that's when he went to his stock images folder and spent around 25 calories of creative stamina working on what became the cover art.
But JP also said that the original design made it's way into the artwork in the booklet of the album, I feel like I've seen that somewhere on one of the websites selling the album and I liked it a lot.
-
On that interview JP said that the original album cover was the D/T mathematical format but they got some push back on it from the record company so they asked HS for something else. I guess that's when he went to his stock images folder and spent around 25 calories of creative stamina working on what became the cover art.
Did we see the same interview? I clearly remember him saying that HS already had the skull in his back pocket, so when they got push back from the record company, he just whipped it out and everyone loved it
-
On that interview JP said that the original album cover was the D/T mathematical format but they got some push back on it from the record company so they asked HS for something else. I guess that's when he went to his stock images folder and spent around 25 calories of creative stamina working on what became the cover art.
Did we see the same interview? I clearly remember him saying that HS already had the skull in his back pocket, so when they got push back from the record company, he just whipped it out and everyone loved it
You are right, Rab. I don't know what Metty is talking about.
-
I heard it while driving, I think it's the same interview, I haven't seen many interviews. I thought JP said HS got back to them with the design after the other one was rejected. Splitting hairs anyway.
-
Ok, thanks. So, I am clear to discuss it then.
I'll stay vague and just personally reflect on my feelings after listening to it a few times, more because I still want folks to enjoy it themselves the first time and not rely on other peoples' descriptions of each individual songs. Hopefully my comments help pump up the excitement and anticipation for DoT a little more.
I really, really like this album, and its the first one, for me personally, in FOREVER that continues to grow on me the more I listen. The record, for me, clearly has this combination of Images & Words, Awake, SFAM, and Train of Thought going on that hits a sweet spot for me. The songs are shorter, but aren't any less technical. There's a warmth to the recording that really makes it come alive.
A few individual song comments that I'll keep brief: At Wit's End is every bit as good as the hype. The outro solo on it is not overly technical, and repeats the same riff motif, but its SO emotional. It just pegs something musically to match the topic, and I love it. I really enjoyed Barstool Warrior as well. Viper King doesn't really fit stylistically, but it was fun to listen to. It could have fit really well onto FII with the Jon Lord-inspired keyboards.
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I haven't been a big fan of what Dream Theater has done post-Train of Thought. And that wasn't the heaviness. I am not sure how to describe it, but I felt like the influences of the band came to the surface too much, the songs were more focused on technicality and lost some mood and feeling, etc. I know all of that is really personal to each person, and that's how I thought. Even with the switch to Mangini, I wasn't blown away, and I drifted a bit further from DT.
I'm from Long Island. Lived there the first 25 years of my life, and I still consider myself a Long Islander, and I'm proud of the musicians from my home. I became a Dream Theater fan with ACOS and then FII, going backwards to get Awake and Images. I saw them live for the first time (twice) in 1998 (opening for Deep Purple and ELP, and then the 12/29/98 holiday show in NYC). I've seen them 13 or 14 times total, all across the United States. So, what I'm trying to say is, I beat the drum as a fan of theirs through Train of Thought. And even after that, when I really wasn't a fan of what they were doing, I still was a Dream Theater supporter. But I haven't been a FAN in quite some time.
Thankfully, thanks to DoT, I am again a FAN of what the band is doing. It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. I liken it to the same feeling I got with Fates Warning's Theories of Flight a couple years back. It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
My personal favorites (so far):
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
Pale Blue Dot
Thanks Dream Theater. I needed this one. If you're an old school fan that really separated from DT over the last decade or so, give this one a spin. You won't regret it.
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
Come here Friday, get the fuck over here Friday!
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
Come here Friday, get the fuck over here Friday!
:rollin
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
Come here Friday, get the fuck over here Friday!
:rollin
How did you get your copy?
-
Ok, thanks. So, I am clear to discuss it then.
I'll stay vague and just personally reflect on my feelings after listening to it a few times, more because I still want folks to enjoy it themselves the first time and not rely on other peoples' descriptions of each individual songs. Hopefully my comments help pump up the excitement and anticipation for DoT a little more.
I really, really like this album, and its the first one, for me personally, in FOREVER that continues to grow on me the more I listen. The record, for me, clearly has this combination of Images & Words, Awake, SFAM, and Train of Thought going on that hits a sweet spot for me. The songs are shorter, but aren't any less technical. There's a warmth to the recording that really makes it come alive.
A few individual song comments that I'll keep brief: At Wit's End is every bit as good as the hype. The outro solo on it is not overly technical, and repeats the same riff motif, but its SO emotional. It just pegs something musically to match the topic, and I love it. I really enjoyed Barstool Warrior as well. Viper King doesn't really fit stylistically, but it was fun to listen to. It could have fit really well onto FII with the Jon Lord-inspired keyboards.
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I haven't been a big fan of what Dream Theater has done post-Train of Thought. And that wasn't the heaviness. I am not sure how to describe it, but I felt like the influences of the band came to the surface too much, the songs were more focused on technicality and lost some mood and feeling, etc. I know all of that is really personal to each person, and that's how I thought. Even with the switch to Mangini, I wasn't blown away, and I drifted a bit further from DT.
I'm from Long Island. Lived there the first 25 years of my life, and I still consider myself a Long Islander, and I'm proud of the musicians from my home. I became a Dream Theater fan with ACOS and then FII, going backwards to get Awake and Images. I saw them live for the first time (twice) in 1998 (opening for Deep Purple and ELP, and then the 12/29/98 holiday show in NYC). I've seen them 13 or 14 times total, all across the United States. So, what I'm trying to say is, I beat the drum as a fan of theirs through Train of Thought. And even after that, when I really wasn't a fan of what they were doing, I still was a Dream Theater supporter. But I haven't been a FAN in quite some time.
Thankfully, thanks to DoT, I am again a FAN of what the band is doing. It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. I liken it to the same feeling I got with Fates Warning's Theories of Flight a couple years back. It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
My personal favorites (so far):
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
Pale Blue Dot
Thanks Dream Theater. I needed this one. If you're an old school fan that really separated from DT over the last decade or so, give this one a spin. You won't regret it.
:hefdaddy this is exactly how I feel about D/T.
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
That's exactly what I was thinking :lol
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
That's exactly what I was thinking :lol
:metal
-
Regarding the "are we allowed to talk about it", I am very tempted to create a poll a few days after release seeing when people heard the album the first time. Judging from the posts in this thread I get the impression there's a LOT of people who already heard it.
-
Regarding the "are we allowed to talk about it", I am very tempted to create a poll a few days after release seeing when people heard the album the first time. Judging from the posts in this thread I get the impression there's a LOT of people who already heard it.
Lots of discussion about it on the DT discord channel, it's been leaked already. So it seems if one wants to listen and talk about it, there's outlets for it, just not here.
-
Holy shit! Samsara likes a new DT album? Fuck, to me that's bigger than any review.
That's exactly what I was thinking :lol
Hahahaha. I guess I'm pretty straightforward. :lol
-
Another positive review
https://distortedsoundmag.com/album-review-distance-over-time-dream-theater/
Could it be their best album since Train Of Thought? ;)
-
Weird to say but I'm starting to lose interest in further reviews. The album is gonna be here anyway in less than 2 days so at this point I can just listen to it myself. Of course I'm not saying "Stop posting reviews", keep 'em coming, it's just something I realized about myself.
-
Is it Friday yet? Is it Friday yet? IsitFridayyet???
I can't stand the wait!!! Got an e-mail today telling me my disc is on its way. Please Mr. Postman be a little early and deliver tomorrow? Pleeeeeease? :angel:
-
Another positive review
https://distortedsoundmag.com/album-review-distance-over-time-dream-theater/
Could it be their best album since Train Of Thought? ;)
I said earlier that I was reviewed out, but I did read this one. It's nice to see that someone was not afraid to give it a 10/10.
Usually people will give it a 9.5 even if they feel deep down inside that it's a perfect 10, probably just to make themselves sound more like a critic.. :lol
-
I am guessing it would be The Glass Prison, ending with SFAM then low static, they leave the stage, static continues then THE GLASS PRISON!!
That would be an amazing way to end the show.
-
I am guessing it would be The Glass Prison, ending with SFAM then low static, they leave the stage, static continues then THE GLASS PRISON!!
That would be an amazing way to end the show.
Yes please :metal :metal
-
If I was reviewing it, and was required to give it a number out of 10, I'd probably give it an 8.25.
Here's how that ranks for me (subject to change, because obviously I just got DoT):
WDADU - 7.25
I&W - 10
Awake - 9.5
FII - 8.25
SFAM - 9
6DoIT - 8.0
ToT - 8.0
Octavarium - 7.5
Systematic Chaos - 7.25
BC&SL - 7.5
ADToE - 7.75
DT - 7.75
The Astonishing - 7.5
DoT - 8.25
>>>>Obviously, this is all individual taste. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I am a big fan of FII, and not many people are. But in the discography, for my tastes, its a top-5. But others probably have those other albums a lot higher. But for me: Images, Awake, SFAM, FII, DoT (and the latter two are tied -- I like them equally for different reasons).
DoT isn't perfect. But its a great listening experience from start to finish, and a great "return to form" that really captures the essence of the band over its career. It's a statement - This is who Dream Theater is. All the elements that make up the band are present, and presented to you in a fresh way. That's how I hear it.
-
Weird to say but I'm starting to lose interest in further reviews. The album is gonna be here anyway in less than 2 days so at this point I can just listen to it myself. Of course I'm not saying "Stop posting reviews", keep 'em coming, it's just something I realized about myself.
I'm not a fan of music reviews either especially when they review every track.
Edit: Just thought of something. If I buy this album, then this will be the first time I've ever bought an album and went to see a band on tour for that same album. I saw Maiden on the Brave New World Tour but that CD was given to me by my sister and it was a promo copy she got from the record store she worked at.
-
This got me thinking... almost made a new thread about it in the Music section. What's the current value of an album review nowadays? You can listen to most any album via a couple avenues online before buying it, if you don't want to make a blind (deaf?) purchase. Reading reviews makes more sense for a film - because you want to don't want to blow 2 hours and $20 and trailers can be deceptive, and book reviews - because they cost money and time to read, (unless you are masterthes) and books aren't conducive to trailers like a film is. Is it just curiosity? Or do people still based their purchases on them?
-
I never let a review sway my purchasing decisions. I may read them for fun, but ultimately if I'm curious about a new book, CD, or movie I'll just buy it and make up my own mind.
Unrelated, but as a fan of this band for close to two decades, there is no way my first listen to a new DT album would come from some pirated leak. I'm fine waiting for the release date the band intended.
-
I never let a review sway my purchasing decisions. I may read them for fun, but ultimately if I'm curious about a new book, CD, or movie I'll just buy it and make up my own mind.
Unrelated, but as a fan of this band for close to two decades, there is no way my first listen to a new DT album would come from some pirated leak. I'm fine waiting for the release date the band intended.
Amen.
-
Countdown to Distance Over Time (http://mycount.org/en/?wm=4&t=1550754000000&tz=498352&t1=U2Vjb25kcyBVbnRpbCBET1QgSXMgUmVsZWFzZWQ%3D&t2=&fid=1) (in my timezone, which is UTC+11)
-
This got me thinking... almost made a new thread about it in the Music section. What's the current value of an album review nowadays? You can listen to most any album via a couple avenues online before buying it, if you don't want to make a blind (deaf?) purchase. Reading reviews makes more sense for a film - because you want to don't want to blow 2 hours and $20 and trailers can be deceptive, and book reviews - because they cost money and time to read, (unless you are masterthes) and books aren't conducive to trailers like a film is. Is it just curiosity? Or do people still based their purchases on them?
I don't know, most of the reviews don't really say anything more than "I liked/disliked it" or "song x has a good riff". I really rarely read a review where it seems like a guy knows what he's talking about. Seems like everyone's a critic now, though not everybody should. But what makes me cringe is fans or so-called reviewers (often just people who happen to have a blog or a YT channel) giving school grades to skilled, professional musicians.
-
Well, reviews should serve mainly in the rare case something's wrong. Let's picture the absurd scenario where DT want to make all the money before retiring, and make a very commercial, almost pop album.... if 19 reviews out of 20 say "the album blows, it's embarassing", one might have the doubt and listen before a purchase.
I mean, you should always judge for yourself, but if 99,9% of the comments about Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are negative, maybe I actually shouldn't bother to watch those movies.
Also with music there's a certain and special "affection" to a band, to the act itself of waiting for an album and buy it on release day.... DT never let me down, the reviews don't say something alarming like "OMG they all made pop songs with electronic loops", I'll just blindly buy it and enjoy the experience. If the album majorly sucks and blows, which I highly doubt, well, lesson learnt, next time around I'll listen before buying. But it's not the end of the world nor of my finances to buy an album just out of trust and loyalty to a band :hat
-
I have been around before BC&SL came out. There's been always leaks and reviews before albums (I'll be honest and say BC&SL leaked like a month ago and I didn't listen it with the exception of TCOT). But this time it's like everyone got the album, reviewed it, ranked it. Everytime I log into the forums I see a poster just posted his/her opinios. For the first time in this forum I feel like I am the only one I'll listen the album in its offical release day. :lol
I know I'm exaggerating but still... :millahhhh
-
I have been around before BC&SL came out. There's been always leaks and reviews before albums (I'll be honest and say BC&SL leaked like a month ago and I didn't listen it with the exception of TCOT). But this time it's like everyone got the album, reviewed it, ranked it. Everytime I log into the forums I see a poster just posted his/her opinios. For the first time in this forum I feel like I am the only one I'll listen the album in its offical release day. :lol
I know I'm exaggerating but still... :millahhhh
I am with you! :)
Just listened to the first two singles...
-
I honestly have to say I don't think I've ever seen such universal positivity from the album reviews leading up to a DT release before. I only hope it continues once we've all heard it. Everything about this pre-release build-up has had incredibly good vibes about it, from the way all five members created the album together in the same room, to how involved in interviews all five have been. The hype from this fan has grown even more as a result of this. And we are almost there. It's Album Release Eve, DTF! Who's to say whether this is the last time we experience this with Dream Theater, so let's enjoy it and savour it.
-
I'm surprised people still read reviews. Why bother? If you come across a band name, go on YouTube or some other platform and just spend 5-10 minutes listening to their stuff instead of spending the same amount of time reading what someone else thought about it.
-
I'm surprised people still read reviews. Why bother? If you come across a band name, go on YouTube or some other platform and just spend 5-10 minutes listening to their stuff instead of spending the same amount of time reading what someone else thought about it.
Well, good reviews can guide you to understand music, especially if you don't know a band.
I actually fell in love with Dream Theater back in 1992 thanks to a "video review" that explained all the complexity behind their music
Also reviews can help you filter what to look for on YouTube....there are zillions in band there, and Internet by its nature doesn't give you any reliable key to filter the music.
-
Well, I assume one reads reviews of bands he already is a fan of, because there's interest and anticipation. If someone mentions a band I never listened to, it's not that I go looking up for reviews either.
-
I honestly have to say I don't think I've ever seen such universal positivity from the album reviews leading up to a DT release before. I only hope it continues once we've all heard it. Everything about this pre-release build-up has had incredibly good vibes about it, from the way all five members created the album together in the same room, to how involved in interviews all five have been. The hype from this fan has grown even more as a result of this. And we are almost there. It's Album Release Eve, DTF! Who's to say whether this is the last time we experience this with Dream Theater, so let's enjoy it and savour it.
Well said bro! :metal
-
My Collectors Special Edition is coming today :metal ;D
-
I have it guys! Bought it at my local store which always has DT albums available one day before official release. I'm gonna listen to track 1. Excited as hell!
B.Lee
-
Lucky you! so I guess I will be basically one of the very last ones to hear the album ;D tomorrow, during my lunch break (that's very early morning for the americans), I will grab this baby! :metal
-
Lucky you! so I guess I will be basically one of the very last ones to hear the album ;D tomorrow, during my lunch break (that's very early morning for the americans), I will grab this baby! :metal
Have just listend to UA. One word : nasty! The opening has a strong sense of déjà-vu, but man, it's really strong! And the sound is great (those drums, baby, those drums!)!
B.Lee
-
I'm staying up for a pseudo-midnight release, where I start the singles at 11:43pm and play the album from Barstool at the midnight release.
Only 35 minutes left :caffeine:
-
Lucky you! so I guess I will be basically one of the very last ones to hear the album ;D tomorrow, during my lunch break (that's very early morning for the americans), I will grab this baby! :metal
Have just listend to UA. One word : nasty! The opening has a strong sense of déjà-vu, but man, it's really strong! And the sound is great (those drums, baby, those drums!)!
B.Lee
Enjoy !!! Let us know !!
-
I'm surprised people still read reviews. Why bother? If you come across a band name, go on YouTube or some other platform and just spend 5-10 minutes listening to their stuff instead of spending the same amount of time reading what someone else thought about it.
Umm...because we're excited and want to grab every little morsel we can about the album?
Jeez...no need to bring the mood down there. Why people feel they have to make everyone else as grumpy as they are beats me...
And there should be rules in place as regards full and open album discussion before most of the world has reached release day.
-
Lucky you! so I guess I will be basically one of the very last ones to hear the album ;D tomorrow, during my lunch break (that's very early morning for the americans), I will grab this baby! :metal
Have just listend to UA. One word : nasty! The opening has a strong sense of déjà-vu, but man, it's really strong! And the sound is great (those drums, baby, those drums!)!
B.Lee
Enjoy !!! Let us know !!
I will (both enjoy and let you know)! :metal
B.Lee
Edit : I'm going out for the day. Just had time to listen to UA and won't be able to listen to the rest before probably tomorrow.
-
My collector's box thingy just arrived (from Burning Shed). The lenticular cover is unusually good, I must say! The direction the skull is facing turns through several angles.
-
My collector's box thingy just arrived (from Burning Shed). The lenticular cover is unusually good, I must say! The direction the skull is facing turns through several angles.
Cool!
-
Nice. Since I ordered from Amazon it will not be here until the end of next week or later. I always wonder why there is such a huge delivery difference from various places. Burningshed always seems to be the best place to get anything on or before release.
Frank
-
Amazon (UK) was stating early yesterday morning that the box was going to be delivered on the 26 February. I figured I'd cancel the order and give Burning Shed a go instead for £3 more. Was surprised when I receiving the shipping notification on the same day. Result ;D
Here's my review: yes, it's good.
-
Someone posted the drum track for "Pale Blue Dot" on EZdrummer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuqHNocfYKw
I Think that this is DT most anticipated album since ADTOE, and the wait is finally over!
-
Someone posted the drum track for "Pale Blue Dot" on EZdrummer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuqHNocfYKw
I Think that this is DT most anticipated album since ADTOE, and the wait is finally over!
I doubt that this is the real drum part, rather some "mockup" of the thing (since we all know what EZdrummer does)
-
Another positive review
https://distortedsoundmag.com/album-review-distance-over-time-dream-theater/
Could it be their best album since Train Of Thought? ;)
I said earlier that I was reviewed out, but I did read this one. It's nice to see that someone was not afraid to give it a 10/10.
Usually people will give it a 9.5 even if they feel deep down inside that it's a perfect 10, probably just to make themselves sound more like a critic.. :lol
I find the 10/10 in itself questions the usefulness of the review. What is the reviewer saying, that it is amongst the best music albums of all time? Or is he saying it more DT-centric, that is, this album is better than IAW and SFAM? Judging from the released singles I personally already find that nigh impossible.
I like reviews that put an album in context with previous albums of the same band. No "JR unleashes a cornucopia of shred hitherto unknown" but rather "here is my personal DT album ranking, and here is where I place the new album in that ranking. It combines elements of album X and album Y...". I also like reviews where the reviewer is aware of her own "new car smell" excitement and rather gives a ranking based on how she expects to like the album in a year from now.
-
"Cornucopia of Shred" would the quintessential title for an instrumental :lol
-
Repeating what I said above:
Since the album will be officially released in some countries in a matter of minutes, it is time to let the official discussion begin. Those that have it legitimately, whether receiving an advance promo, having gotten their pre-order early, or being in a time zone where it is Friday are free to discuss.
As always, discussion of leaks or other illegal means of obtaining the album is prohibited and will result in being banned from this forum.
So...who's excited? :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine:
-
Me! Tomorrow I will reenact the plan of three years ago for The Astonishing - lunch break, visit to the nearby chain store, purchase of the album, and listening in its entirety for the very first time, having avoided all the singles and promo material!
It's a bit like Christmas, the magic of waiting for an album and buy it and listening not knowing it beforehand it's something that I want to let go of :yarr
-
I'm excited but I'm afraid the uber-Christmas type excitement I once had for new DT releases no longer exists.
-
I will be going to the launch event tonight in NYC. Pretty excited!
(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/7663EED0-0F63-4FB8-B905-8342D4E6BA5B_zpsis5yeyhn.jpg)
-
I'm planning on listening once its out on Spotify.
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
-
Looking forward to this :yarr
-
As feared, it's being released on my wife's birthday. I'm pretty excited.
Divorces are always exciting experiences.
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
Wow, you think it's THAT good, huh? They've released a shit ton of music since SFAM..
-
It's a very good album, much better for me than their recent output...
...but (sorry, RoeDent!)... most of the vocals are just kind of there (for better or worse), and the dynamics, once again, appear to have been squished from the recording. (Will try the 5.1 mix at some point and also the vinyl to see if they're any different... here's hoping!)
Quibbles aside, I do honestly think the majority will enjoy the album. And I don't think we can ask for more than that.
-
Just been notified my box-set has been dispatched and is arriving on Saturday! Luckily I can stream the album on Apple Music at midnight, really looking forward to this one. :metal
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
Wow, you think it's THAT good, huh? They've released a shit ton of music since SFAM..
For me, yes. Read my comment in the now locked thread. It pretty much sums up where I'm at. This was a nice shot in the arm that I needed to be a DT fan again. I was not a fan of the post-Train of Thought material (I liked some of it, but it was really spotty) really until this record.
-
EDIT: Never mind. I merged in some of the most recent posts from the other thread.
-
Gee thanks Bosk! :lol
I actually read both yesterday (Samsara is always a "must read" in my book ;)), and just went to the thread to re-read the post.
Sam, you mentioned emotion. I found it in spades all over ADTOE. I'm surprised you don't like that more.
-
:caffeine:
Spotify, I'm ready!
-
Best album since Six Degrees. Two of the tracks made me well up with emotion and that NEVER happens.
You guys are gonna be chuffed with it.
-
Best album since Six Degrees. Two of the tracks made me well up with emotion and that NEVER happens.
You guys are gonna be chuffed with it.
Which tracks?
Also, I don't think there's a single album where I didn't well up with emotion at least once
-
iTunes downloads are coming in!
BARSTOOL WARRIOR
Wow, that Rush-like intro. I thought this would be a heavy album? ;)
So this is the snippet they showed of Mangini recording drums. I thought it was leading to keys but instead to a beautiful guitar lead. Love JM's tone!
OMG! Possibly the most beautiful DT chorus melody I have heard!
Piano break. Myung doing something I haven't heard before, accenting like uhm...John Deacon?
Beautiful guitar solo. Full of emotions.
The vocal melody transitions going to the end is putting a smile on my face.
What a beautiful song. A Peak DT song. Thank you guys.
-
Sam, you mentioned emotion. I found it in spades all over ADTOE. I'm surprised you don't like that more.
I did at first, but it didn't have a lot of staying power with me. And it also didn't hit me AS hard as this one (DoT) did.
-
Best album since Six Degrees. Two of the tracks made me well up with emotion and that NEVER happens.
You guys are gonna be chuffed with it.
Which tracks?
Also, I don't think there's a single album where I didn't well up with emotion at least once
Barstool Warrior (there's a bit towards the end where it reprises the chorus chords with a different vocal melody, it is proper goosebump territory), and At Wit's End (the solo outro)
-
ROOM 137
I guess Mangini is now in charge of bringing the heavy with this and Paralyzed? :lol
Playing triplets in a 7/4 time signature... 3 and 7? Where's the 1? :p
Polyrhythm quarter note hits on the China cymbals at 4/4 over the 7/4 beat? So that's the 1? 1 3 7? LOL, I think I am ovethinking this.
So that's the Beatles section, I did not expect that.
HIDDEN BY DESIGN? Did I hear it right?
Guitar solo took a playful turn, with Myung playing along. :D
The second Beatles section! Myung doing a Sir Paul! :lol
Another Peak DT song! Now this is something different!
-
Can't wait to hear this, getting pumped hearing all your reactions guys! :metal
-
and At Wit's End (the solo outro)
This one got to me. That was the JP I had been waiting for, for a long time now. Since SFAM, or for me even more, FII. There was that soulful guitar.
I'd also like to say I am VERY impressed by Ben Grosse's mix on this. I've always been a fan, but I was curious how he would mix Dream Theater. He nailed it.
-
S2N
OK, my jaw is officially dropping. Myung and Mangini are amazing!
Mangini doing lots of hi-hat work and playing with the snare, more than the past three albums combined. :lol
Damn it, that chorus is addictive.
Killer JP solo.
Fake ending? I haven't heard that before!
JR brings it in the outro! Like a much improved version of the TDEN outro.
My favorite D/T song so far. Peak DT song again!
-
It's too much of an hassle, but I would love as well to write down on the fly my very first impressions like you're doing, and going back to it months later once the album will be known inside out! :metal
-
AT WIT'S END
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
-
It's too much of an hassle, but I would love as well to write down on the fly my very first impressions like you're doing, and going back to it months later once the album will be known inside out! :metal
I did that for The Astonishing, and I don't think I ever looked at it again :laugh:
It's somewhere in my work desk
-
ROOM 137
...
Playing triplets in a 7/4 time signature... 3 and 7? Where's the 1? :p
Polyrhythm quarter note hits on the China cymbals at 4/4 over the 7/4 beat? So that's the 1? 1 3 7? LOL, I think I am ovethinking this.
I think you probably are overthinking it. :lol But those are great finds nonetheless! :tup
I'd also like to say I am VERY impressed by Ben Grosse's mix on this. I've always been a fan, but I was curious how he would mix Dream Theater. He nailed it.
Except for the cymbals. That is the one thing I don't care for. With the exception of the ride, which cuts through nicely (and the hi-hats at times), the cymbal work just doesn't stand out and gets lost, which is a bit disappointing.
But other than that, I agree about the mix.
-
It's too much of an hassle, but I would love as well to write down on the fly my very first impressions like you're doing, and going back to it months later once the album will be known inside out! :metal
I did that for The Astonishing, and I don't think I ever looked at it again :laugh:
It's somewhere in my work desk
I've actually done this for every album back to Octavarium. Makes for good reading years later. On the downside, it sort of gets in the way of a decent first listen because I'm too busy typing!
-
At Wit's End
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
YES, YES, YES! on all counts. I love this song. Although, for me, it took a few listens for it to sink in. I really hope they play this live. But I suspect it could be one that doesn't make the cut.
-
OUT OF REACH
Beautiful piano and guitar.
A Dream Theater love song?
Nice, Myung not just hitting the root notes even if it's a ballad.
Mangini's cheating. This is just like how he drummed Smashed in JLB's Elements of Persuasion. :lol
So far, JLB is the album's champion for lyrics writing. Beautiful DT ballad.
-
At Wit's End
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
YES, YES, YES! on all counts. I love this song. Although, for me, it took a few listens for it to sink in. I really hope they play this live. But I suspect it could be one that doesn't make the cut.
I thought it could be a decent shot for set closer. It's not too long (don't think they'd be able to fit an epic in if they're playing SFAM), and that solo would make a brilliant climax to the gig.
Or, maybe it could even close the first set. I can see them taking a break from BAI.
-
Ermaghhaaad I need this album now. Super pumped for tomorrow.
-
A Dream Theater love song?
Well...yes, but a twisted one. Pay attention to the lyrics. :lol
-
Five more hours until it's on Spotify in my time zone! I'm gonna stay up late tonight. :tup
-
At Wit's End
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
YES, YES, YES! on all counts. I love this song. Although, for me, it took a few listens for it to sink in. I really hope they play this live. But I suspect it could be one that doesn't make the cut.
I thought it could be a decent shot for set closer. It's not too long (don't think they'd be able to fit an epic in if they're playing SFAM), and that solo would make a brilliant climax to the gig.
Or, maybe it could even close the first set. I can see them taking a break from BAI.
Well, here's my thinking: Assuming they don't play the entire album (other than Viper King), I think there are obvious reasons why other songs get played ahead of At Wit's End. The three promo singles are likely to get played because they are the three promo singles. Barstool Warrior probably makes the cut because the band seems fond of that one, and it is the one sort of "classic prog rock" track on the album. I think Room 137 makes the cut because Mangini and James are REALLY fond of that one. I think Out of Reach is likely as the one "ballad." JP and MM love Pale Blue Dot (and I suspect Jordan does too), and I think it is likely to get good audience reaction. So that leaves S2N and At Wit's End as the two that are perhaps most likely to be omitted this time around unless they play more than 7 songs from the new one. This is by no means conclusive (I haven't seen the set list, and I do not intend to before the show). But just my best guesses based on the info we have from interviews and such.
-
Well, here's my thinking: Assuming they don't play the entire album (other than Viper King), I think there are obvious reasons why other songs get played ahead of At Wit's End. The three promo singles are likely to get played because they are the three promo singles. Barstool Warrior probably makes the cut because the band seems fond of that one, and it is the one sort of "classic prog rock" track on the album. I think Room 137 makes the cut because Mangini and James are REALLY fond of that one. I think Out of Reach is likely as the one "ballad." JP and MM love Pale Blue Dot (and I suspect Jordan does too), and I think it is likely to get good audience reaction. So that leaves S2N and At Wit's End as the two that are perhaps most likely to be omitted this time around unless they play more than 7 songs from the new one. This is by no means conclusive (I haven't seen the set list, and I do not intend to before the show). But just my best guesses based on the info we have from interviews and such.
Ugh..
-
At Wit's End
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
YES, YES, YES! on all counts. I love this song. Although, for me, it took a few listens for it to sink in. I really hope they play this live. But I suspect it could be one that doesn't make the cut.
I thought it could be a decent shot for set closer. It's not too long (don't think they'd be able to fit an epic in if they're playing SFAM), and that solo would make a brilliant climax to the gig.
Or, maybe it could even close the first set. I can see them taking a break from BAI.
Well, here's my thinking: Assuming they don't play the entire album (other than Viper King), I think there are obvious reasons why other songs get played ahead of At Wit's End. The three promo singles are likely to get played because they are the three promo singles. Barstool Warrior probably makes the cut because the band seems fond of that one, and it is the one sort of "classic prog rock" track on the album. I think Room 137 makes the cut because Mangini and James are REALLY fond of that one. I think Out of Reach is likely as the one "ballad." JP and MM love Pale Blue Dot (and I suspect Jordan does too), and I think it is likely to get good audience reaction. So that leaves S2N and At Wit's End as the two that are perhaps most likely to be omitted this time around unless they play more than 7 songs from the new one. This is by no means conclusive (I haven't seen the set list, and I do not intend to before the show). But just my best guesses based on the info we have from interviews and such.
Wonder if they'll do some setlist rotation? It seems the only way to fit in D/T, SFAM and tracks from other albums!
-
Yeah, could be. But if they do, and I miss At Wit's End because it is rotated out at my show, I'll be even more upset than if it isn't in the tour rotation at all. :lol
-
PALE BLUE DOT
One minute of space sound. I feel cheated! :lol
Mangini, WTF? Yes, you have fast hands, stop showing off.
Djent Theater? :lol Feels like JP is following Mangini and not the other way around.
Star Wars feel with the keys! :p
Chorus not that catchy. Sounds like a typical JP-written chorus.
Now that instrumental is crazy. It's like DT trying to write a song with vocals around The Dance of Eternity.
Not really my cup of tea (I don't like TDOE) but I get why some progheads are impressed with this one.
Hmmm...a bit of a letdown compared to the awesomeness of the previous songs in that almost all these songs leveled up in their outros. This one peaked with the instrumental section.
-
Yeah, could be. But if they do, and I miss At Wit's End because it is rotated out at my show, I'll be even more upset than if it isn't in the tour rotation at all. :lol
The only prescription is... more cowbell multiple shows.
-
PALE BLUE DOT
One minute of space sound. I feel cheated! :lol
Mangini, WTF? Yes, you have fast hands, stop showing off.
Djent Theater? :lol Feels like JP is following Mangini and not the other way around.
Star Wars feel with the keys! :p
Chorus not that catchy. Sounds like a typical JP-written chorus.
Now that instrumental is crazy. It's like DT trying to write a song with vocals around The Dance of Eternity.
Not really my cup of tea (I don't like TDOE) but I get why some progheads are impressed with this one.
Hmmm...a bit of a letdown compared to the awesomeness of the previous songs in that almost all these songs leveled up in their outros. This one peaked with the instrumental section.
I hope this won't be my reaction... I dearly and fondly love the subject matter and I hope the song is equally as beuatiful as the speech that inspired it!
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
Pretty much echoing your sentiments! The best since SFaM (or at least SDOiT) – for me certainly. And I realize this is a bold statement that may have been voiced on some previous occasions, but I feel it really rings true this time.
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now. What enticed me to join just now is pure excitement of what we got with Distance Over Time.
Though I am new to these neck of the internet woods, I am by no means a DT newbie – I started listening to the band in late 2003 and in fact my first album was the freshly released Train of Thought. And even though I hold that album in relatively high regard due to sheer sentimental reasons, my favorite records are SfaM and IaW. I am leaning more towards a prog-side of things than heaviness when it comes to DT music (although I do not refrain from heavy, quite the contrary! It's just that I prefer certain kind of heaviness to that kind which became prevalent in latter stage of their career)
And that is exactly why I decided to join just now – in order to get off my chest how awesome I think Distance Over Time is and how it rekindled my passion for this band.
(And the funny thing is I wasn't even that convinced by the three singles that preceded it, though two of them grew on me quite a bit)
Though I should say that I am belonging to that rather underpopulated camp of The Astonishing aficionados – I have a thing for conceptual, operatic pieces and TA was such a breath of fresh air for me, albeit marred by some excessive material. Still, there's at least 55 minutes of top-notch DT music there which was much more than what we used to get per album since Scenes (just a side note that I loathe SC and BC&SL – needed to get that off my chest too).
About DoT: the four-song run of Barstool Warrior/Room 137/SN2/At Wit's End is UNREAL. Vintage DT – think the missing piece between IaW and Awake, or between Awake and FII – that's how these songs sound. They're energetic, fresh, LOADS of fun and for some reason, when listening for the first few times (each time with a huge grin on my face and a feeling of euphoria I haven't felt for DT in a long while) I couldn't memorize any of the musical parts clearly – and then it hit me why:
There is so much going on in those 4-6 minutes of each of these songs' (except AWE which clocks at more than 9 minutes and is packed with ear candy – such a fitting acronym for this song, btw) that it's just ridiculous. Level of variety and diversity that we didn't for quite some time. AWE is, alongside BAI, the best Mangini-era song for me and one of DT's finest moment - a perfect song all throughout, not a second wasted - as is Barstool Warrior.
Out of Reach is a very lovely ballad. I am not big on ballads myself, but this one I don't mind at all, in fact it is akin of some of their more successful ventures of this ilk, a la Through Her Eyes and Anna Lee. Pale Blue Dot is terrific and just as engaging – although it does seem to miss that X factor that makes it an instant jaw-dropper like the aforementioned four songs that are a highlight for me.
Oh, and – the sound of the record, the production, the mix – is absolutely out of this world. Petrucci's guitar leads have never sounded better, Myung is on absolute fire (finally!), Rudess is measured and collected throughout, Mangini shos off some proper tricks and got his sound right and La Brie does some super interesting things with his vocals and sings great throughout (it seems like he's singing in a range that's more comfortable for him now and as a result he just sounds right).
As a band rejuvenated, that's how this album sounds.
So yeah – nice to be here and SO nice to have DT at the top of their powers back!
-
Yeah, could be. But if they do, and I miss At Wit's End because it is rotated out at my show, I'll be even more upset than if it isn't in the tour rotation at all. :lol
It wouldn't matter at that point. If At Wit's End isn't played in Boston, but is played in "wherever" the following night, I'll be pissed.
This was my problem with them devoting so much of the evening to Scenes.
-
I think it's possible they'll return to the A and B setlist. They'll play the three promo songs for sure, and probably Barstool Warrior and rotate the other ones? I have a feeling AWE or PBD will be closing the first set or maybe be (part of) the encore.
-
PALE BLUE DOT
One minute of space sound. I feel cheated! :lol
Mangini, WTF? Yes, you have fast hands, stop showing off.
Djent Theater? :lol Feels like JP is following Mangini and not the other way around.
Star Wars feel with the keys! :p
Chorus not that catchy. Sounds like a typical JP-written chorus.
Now that instrumental is crazy. It's like DT trying to write a song with vocals around The Dance of Eternity.
Not really my cup of tea (I don't like TDOE) but I get why some progheads are impressed with this one.
Hmmm...a bit of a letdown compared to the awesomeness of the previous songs in that almost all these songs leveled up in their outros. This one peaked with the instrumental section.
I hope this won't be my reaction... I dearly and fondly love the subject matter and I hope the song is equally as beuatiful as the speech that inspired it!
Give it a few listens, there's so much going on in that track. It's not really a beautiful track though. It's actually got a bit of a sinister vibe to it.
The instrumental section is mind-boggling.
-
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now.
Welcome!
-
I know that some of you will probably say that I'm crazy, but I think that Distance Over Time is my favorite DT album since SFAM. :hefdaddy
And I'm dead serious guys, to me DOT is even better than Train Of Thought and Six Degrees.
-
At Wit's End
HAHAHA! JP doing a fast riff over a chill JR, MM, and JM.
OK, I heard this groove before in BAI.
"Don't leave me now, don't leave me now!"
Oh, wow, that pre-chorus. "Deafening! Deafening! Shut it out! Shut it out!" Beautiful.
That transition from aggressive solos to solemn piano. The transitions in this song are flawless.
Nice guitar, bass and drum groove under the piano.
WTF, Mangini with the weird hi-hat pattern. Clap clap clap
DAMN IT WHY AM I TEARING UP? WHAT AN EMOTIONAL ENDING! Wow, like The Spirit Carries On outro! The feels!
Peak DT song again. This album is crazy!
YES, YES, YES! on all counts. I love this song. Although, for me, it took a few listens for it to sink in. I really hope they play this live. But I suspect it could be one that doesn't make the cut.
A belter of a song. 9:20 and not a nanosecond wasted, extremely diverse and yet coherent. Vintage Dream Theater.
@TAC: Thank you, nice to be here!
@pfillion: I actually trust you as I feel the same way.
-
VIPER KING
HAHAHAHAHA! Is JR trolling Derek with his keys in this song? :lol
This is a FUN song!
DT can come out with a full album in this style and put Sons of Apollo out of business. :rollin
Good JP solo, but I think JR is the one that really enjoyed this "bonus track."
The unison with JM!
------
Verdict: This is my favorite DT album. It's not even an exaggeration. The self-titled was my second fav DT album for a long time, just behind Awake, because I like it when DT does not overdo their noodling, and D/T is notches over the self-titled (and even Awake). That run from Barstool Warrior to At Wit's End is especially amazing. And I may be overthinking this again, but those four songs clearly showed the different personalities of the lyric-writers who I assume are the lead composers in their respective songs. This really feels so much like a group effort.
I am happy.
Song rankings for me
S2N
At Wit's End
Room 137
Barstool Warrior
Out of Reach
Viper King
Pale Blue Dot
Paralyzed
Fall into the Light
Untethered ANgel
-
Verdict: This is my favorite DT album. It's not even an exaggeration. The self-titled was my second fav DT album for a long time, just behind Awake, because I like it when DT does not overdo their noodling, and D/T is notches over the self-titled (and even Awake). That run from Barstool Warrior to At Wit's End is especially amazing. And I may be overthinking this again, but those four songs clearly showed the different personalities of the lyric-writers who I assume are the lead composers in their respective songs. This really feels so much like a group effort.
I am happy.
Song rankings for me
S2N
At Wit's End
Room 137
Barstool Warrior
Out of Reach
Viper King
Pale Blue Dot
Paralyzed
Fall into the Light
Untethered ANgel
Wow, all this after one listen? Usually I don't let myself make such opinions until after I've had time to digest everything.
You're in the Philippines, right? I need to let my cousins know, if the link to spotify is already active
-
The link to Spotify is already active.
Just listen to that four-song run and you will be blown away.
-
PALE BLUE DOT
One minute of space sound. I feel cheated! :lol
Mangini, WTF? Yes, you have fast hands, stop showing off.
Djent Theater? :lol Feels like JP is following Mangini and not the other way around.
Star Wars feel with the keys! :p
Chorus not that catchy. Sounds like a typical JP-written chorus.
Now that instrumental is crazy. It's like DT trying to write a song with vocals around The Dance of Eternity.
Not really my cup of tea (I don't like TDOE) but I get why some progheads are impressed with this one.
Hmmm...a bit of a letdown compared to the awesomeness of the previous songs in that almost all these songs leveled up in their outros. This one peaked with the instrumental section.
I hope this won't be my reaction... I dearly and fondly love the subject matter and I hope the song is equally as beuatiful as the speech that inspired it!
Give it a few listens, there's so much going on in that track. It's not really a beautiful track though. It's actually got a bit of a sinister vibe to it.
The instrumental section is mind-boggling.
Yeah, I agree with Genome. Erwinrafael, my initial reaction was VERY similar to yours. But the song has grown on me a LOT with repeat listens. I actually felt that way with S2N at first as well. I was initially disappointed. But after taking it all in for a few listens and understanding what they were doing, it shot way up for me.
-
Song rankings for me
S2N
At Wit's End
Room 137
Barstool Warrior
Out of Reach
Viper King
Pale Blue Dot
Paralyzed
Fall into the Light
Untethered ANgel
OK, I'm game, let's do this. For me it's:
At Wit's End
Barstool Warrior
S2N
Room 137
Pale Blue Dot
Fall into the Light
Out of Reach
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
5-9 are subject to change somewhat. 1-4 ain't.
-
Those top four songs are really gold.
-
It beautiful. From start to finish. Im so happy they are back in full power.
-
Mangini wrote a cool post on fb today, he's calling D/T his "first album with the band".
The post makes it sound like he feels he's still not all in with MOST of the fans, which I disagree with, it's time to leave the Portnoy people behind and stop getting affected by their hassles.
Kinda also disappointed cause I told him to his face after a show in the ADTOE tour, "Welcome to the band Mike, you are freakin amazing!", I mean.. take my word for it man! hehe
-
My initial rankings, if you're interested:
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Pale Blue Dot
Paralyzed
Fall Into the Light
S2N
Room 137
Untethered Angel
Out of Reach
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
+1
I also think it's their best album since SFAM and probably on par with Awake.
-
After 2 listens or so I'd say this is what I think. I expect some changes to happen in the first 6, perhaps 7 songs but from 8-9-10 I probably won't listen to again if I can help it. Overall I like the album. I hope they are not part of the setlist (along with 90% of The Astonishing) when I go to see them in the summer.
1. Paralyzed
2. At Wit's End
3. Untethered Angel
4. Pale Blue Dot
5. Fall Into The Light
6. Room 137
7. S2N
8. Viper King
9. Barstool Warrior
10. Out Of Reach
It's too early to rank the album but it's probably their best since Octavarium, so I guess technically it is in the top 10 :D.
-
it's in my top 3, along with Dramatic Turn and DT12. I expected more notes though.
-
Best album since Six Degrees. Two of the tracks made me well up with emotion and that NEVER happens.
Taking a guess here: BW and AWE?
-
Ok, thanks. So, I am clear to discuss it then.
I'll stay vague and just personally reflect on my feelings after listening to it a few times, more because I still want folks to enjoy it themselves the first time and not rely on other peoples' descriptions of each individual songs. Hopefully my comments help pump up the excitement and anticipation for DoT a little more.
I really, really like this album, and its the first one, for me personally, in FOREVER that continues to grow on me the more I listen. The record, for me, clearly has this combination of Images & Words, Awake, SFAM, and Train of Thought going on that hits a sweet spot for me. The songs are shorter, but aren't any less technical. There's a warmth to the recording that really makes it come alive.
A few individual song comments that I'll keep brief: At Wit's End is every bit as good as the hype. The outro solo on it is not overly technical, and repeats the same riff motif, but its SO emotional. It just pegs something musically to match the topic, and I love it. I really enjoyed Barstool Warrior as well. Viper King doesn't really fit stylistically, but it was fun to listen to. It could have fit really well onto FII with the Jon Lord-inspired keyboards.
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I haven't been a big fan of what Dream Theater has done post-Train of Thought. And that wasn't the heaviness. I am not sure how to describe it, but I felt like the influences of the band came to the surface too much, the songs were more focused on technicality and lost some mood and feeling, etc. I know all of that is really personal to each person, and that's how I thought. Even with the switch to Mangini, I wasn't blown away, and I drifted a bit further from DT.
I'm from Long Island. Lived there the first 25 years of my life, and I still consider myself a Long Islander, and I'm proud of the musicians from my home. I became a Dream Theater fan with ACOS and then FII, going backwards to get Awake and Images. I saw them live for the first time (twice) in 1998 (opening for Deep Purple and ELP, and then the 12/29/98 holiday show in NYC). I've seen them 13 or 14 times total, all across the United States. So, what I'm trying to say is, I beat the drum as a fan of theirs through Train of Thought. And even after that, when I really wasn't a fan of what they were doing, I still was a Dream Theater supporter. But I haven't been a FAN in quite some time.
Thankfully, thanks to DoT, I am again a FAN of what the band is doing. It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. I liken it to the same feeling I got with Fates Warning's Theories of Flight a couple years back. It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
My personal favorites (so far):
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
Pale Blue Dot
Thanks Dream Theater. I needed this one. If you're an old school fan that really separated from DT over the last decade or so, give this one a spin. You won't regret it.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/b9aScKLxdv0Y0/giphy.gif)
-
bosk1, your new avatar should be a pale blue dot with your face on it with stick figure arms and legs.
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
Pretty much echoing your sentiments! The best since SFaM (or at least SDOiT) – for me certainly. And I realize this is a bold statement that may have been voiced on some previous occasions, but I feel it really rings true this time.
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now. What enticed me to join just now is pure excitement of what we got with Distance Over Time.
Though I am new to these neck of the internet woods, I am by no means a DT newbie – I started listening to the band in late 2003 and in fact my first album was the freshly released Train of Thought. And even though I hold that album in relatively high regard due to sheer sentimental reasons, my favorite records are SfaM and IaW. I am leaning more towards a prog-side of things than heaviness when it comes to DT music (although I do not refrain from heavy, quite the contrary! It's just that I prefer certain kind of heaviness to that kind which became prevalent in latter stage of their career)
And that is exactly why I decided to join just now – in order to get off my chest how awesome I think Distance Over Time is and how it rekindled my passion for this band.
(And the funny thing is I wasn't even that convinced by the three singles that preceded it, though two of them grew on me quite a bit)
Though I should say that I am belonging to that rather underpopulated camp of The Astonishing aficionados – I have a thing for conceptual, operatic pieces and TA was such a breath of fresh air for me, albeit marred by some excessive material. Still, there's at least 55 minutes of top-notch DT music there which was much more than what we used to get per album since Scenes (just a side note that I loathe SC and BC&SL – needed to get that off my chest too).
About DoT: the four-song run of Barstool Warrior/Room 137/SN2/At Wit's End is UNREAL. Vintage DT – think the missing piece between IaW and Awake, or between Awake and FII – that's how these songs sound. They're energetic, fresh, LOADS of fun and for some reason, when listening for the first few times (each time with a huge grin on my face and a feeling of euphoria I haven't felt for DT in a long while) I couldn't memorize any of the musical parts clearly – and then it hit me why:
There is so much going on in those 4-6 minutes of each of these songs' (except AWE which clocks at more than 9 minutes and is packed with ear candy – such a fitting acronym for this song, btw) that it's just ridiculous. Level of variety and diversity that we didn't for quite some time. AWE is, alongside BAI, the best Mangini-era song for me and one of DT's finest moment - a perfect song all throughout, not a second wasted - as is Barstool Warrior.
Out of Reach is a very lovely ballad. I am not big on ballads myself, but this one I don't mind at all, in fact it is akin of some of their more successful ventures of this ilk, a la Through Her Eyes and Anna Lee. Pale Blue Dot is terrific and just as engaging – although it does seem to miss that X factor that makes it an instant jaw-dropper like the aforementioned four songs that are a highlight for me.
Oh, and – the sound of the record, the production, the mix – is absolutely out of this world. Petrucci's guitar leads have never sounded better, Myung is on absolute fire (finally!), Rudess is measured and collected throughout, Mangini shos off some proper tricks and got his sound right and La Brie does some super interesting things with his vocals and sings great throughout (it seems like he's singing in a range that's more comfortable for him now and as a result he just sounds right).
As a band rejuvenated, that's how this album sounds.
So yeah – nice to be here and SO nice to have DT at the top of their powers back!
Welcome and I completely agree with everything you said. (And I've been a fan of the band since 1993)
-
About DoT: the four-song run of Barstool Warrior/Room 137/SN2/At Wit's End is UNREAL.
That run from Barstool Warrior to At Wit's End is especially amazing.
Already two people agreeing on FOUR songs? wow :metal
It's so contagious erwinfael to read your impressions, you sound like a kid in a candy store :lol
-
Can you let me review track by track? I'm so hyped and I'm so excited. After one listen I'll write something. It'll be like first impact but that's what I want now.
In 1 hour I'll start to listen.
-
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now. What enticed me to join just now is pure excitement of what we got with Distance Over Time.
Welcome. I've lurked for years too :lol
-
bosk1, your new avatar should be a pale blue dot with your face on it with stick figure arms and legs.
:lol
-
Haven't heard it yet (except for the singles), since it's still thursday 3:36 pm here in Brazil.
I had a good felling about the album, but you guys saying it's better than 6DOIT...that's a BOLD claim. :eek
Will post my thoughts on it after 2 or 3 listens tomorrow.
-
Best DT record since SFAM, at least for me.
Pretty much echoing your sentiments! The best since SFaM (or at least SDOiT) – for me certainly. And I realize this is a bold statement that may have been voiced on some previous occasions, but I feel it really rings true this time.
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now. What enticed me to join just now is pure excitement of what we got with Distance Over Time.
Though I am new to these neck of the internet woods, I am by no means a DT newbie – I started listening to the band in late 2003 and in fact my first album was the freshly released Train of Thought. And even though I hold that album in relatively high regard due to sheer sentimental reasons, my favorite records are SfaM and IaW. I am leaning more towards a prog-side of things than heaviness when it comes to DT music (although I do not refrain from heavy, quite the contrary! It's just that I prefer certain kind of heaviness to that kind which became prevalent in latter stage of their career)
And that is exactly why I decided to join just now – in order to get off my chest how awesome I think Distance Over Time is and how it rekindled my passion for this band.
(And the funny thing is I wasn't even that convinced by the three singles that preceded it, though two of them grew on me quite a bit)
Though I should say that I am belonging to that rather underpopulated camp of The Astonishing aficionados – I have a thing for conceptual, operatic pieces and TA was such a breath of fresh air for me, albeit marred by some excessive material. Still, there's at least 55 minutes of top-notch DT music there which was much more than what we used to get per album since Scenes (just a side note that I loathe SC and BC&SL – needed to get that off my chest too).
About DoT: the four-song run of Barstool Warrior/Room 137/SN2/At Wit's End is UNREAL. Vintage DT – think the missing piece between IaW and Awake, or between Awake and FII – that's how these songs sound. They're energetic, fresh, LOADS of fun and for some reason, when listening for the first few times (each time with a huge grin on my face and a feeling of euphoria I haven't felt for DT in a long while) I couldn't memorize any of the musical parts clearly – and then it hit me why:
There is so much going on in those 4-6 minutes of each of these songs' (except AWE which clocks at more than 9 minutes and is packed with ear candy – such a fitting acronym for this song, btw) that it's just ridiculous. Level of variety and diversity that we didn't for quite some time. AWE is, alongside BAI, the best Mangini-era song for me and one of DT's finest moment - a perfect song all throughout, not a second wasted - as is Barstool Warrior.
Out of Reach is a very lovely ballad. I am not big on ballads myself, but this one I don't mind at all, in fact it is akin of some of their more successful ventures of this ilk, a la Through Her Eyes and Anna Lee. Pale Blue Dot is terrific and just as engaging – although it does seem to miss that X factor that makes it an instant jaw-dropper like the aforementioned four songs that are a highlight for me.
Oh, and – the sound of the record, the production, the mix – is absolutely out of this world. Petrucci's guitar leads have never sounded better, Myung is on absolute fire (finally!), Rudess is measured and collected throughout, Mangini shos off some proper tricks and got his sound right and La Brie does some super interesting things with his vocals and sings great throughout (it seems like he's singing in a range that's more comfortable for him now and as a result he just sounds right).
As a band rejuvenated, that's how this album sounds.
So yeah – nice to be here and SO nice to have DT at the top of their powers back!
Welcome and I completely agree with everything you said. (And I've been a fan of the band since 1993)
Appreciate it - thanks a lot for the welcome (and congrats for staying with the band for so long - that's loyalty)!
As for Samsara's review - I completely echo the sentiment, especially this part which encapsulates the essence of this album:
It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. [...] It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
-
It's so contagious erwinfael to read your impressions, you sound like a kid in a candy store :lol
:iagree:
-
.
-
But before I get to the gist of things - hello everyone! Great to be here on DTF, where I lurked for years but was never prompted to partake – until now. What enticed me to join just now is pure excitement of what we got with Distance Over Time.
Welcome. I've lurked for years too :lol
:lol We rise in album-cycles times (and thanks!).
-
S2N
OK, my jaw is officially dropping. Myung and Mangini are amazing!
Mangini doing lots of hi-hat work and playing with the snare, more than the past three albums combined. :lol
Damn it, that chorus is addictive.
Killer JP solo.
Fake ending? I haven't heard that before!
JR brings it in the outro! Like a much improved version of the TDEN outro.
My favorite D/T song so far. Peak DT song again!
Yeah mang, this song kicks All the Ass.
-
Best album since Six Degrees. Two of the tracks made me well up with emotion and that NEVER happens.
Taking a guess here: BW and AWE?
Yep
-
I should be preparing my classes, but here I am reading impressions and opinions on d/t :rollin
I think the next class will be "Let's listen to the new Dream Theater album" :biggrin:
-
The school committee picked a perfect week for school vacation in my town. I take the week off and:
1. The Bruins are on a West Coast trip (and I can stay up!)
2. New Dream Theater album!!!!
-
The school committee picked a perfect week for school vacation in my town. I take the week off and:
1. The Bruins are on a West Coast trip (and I can stay up!)
2. New Dream Theater album!!!!
Lucky you! :)
-
I will be at the East Village Theater in New York City tonight for the Distance Over Time listening party with both John's. There may be a few seats left. I'm not sure. The reviews have all been just what was I was hoping for; strong, while noticing the evolving changes made by the band. Again, this is really my "first" album with DT being a part of its vibe/direction, 1 lyric, music writing (not just "song" writing, or drumming ideas,) my 2 cents with initial drum mic'ing, all while everyone else had the same input. This is the only "everyone" band album I've ever been on since demos in 1987 with the Rick Berlin Band in Boston. I really think you can feel the ebb and flow with each member's personality, which makes this unmakeable unless all 5 have a voice. Kudos to Jimmy T. and Ben too. Petrucci made some legendary decisions and did more work than anyone can imagine. This decade has meant a lot of unplanned pressure on him and maybe a few other people too in different ways. And here we are; evolved; learned and happy. That's a win. I hope you all very much enjoy this.
You can feel his pride and happiness in finally having done a DT album the way he wanted to do it. Probably and finally he's starting to feel that Dream Theater is really his band as well, and not just a band where he plays drums.
-
I can’t wait to hear this. I’m on holiday in France this week. Wi-fi is practically non-existent and mobile data coverage is poor. It might be Saturday night when I get home that I’m able to listen to it fully, and it’s killing me! ;D
-
Since I am on the West Coast, this should be available at 9pm tonight!! Can't wait!!
-
My initial rankings, if you're interested:
Barstool Warrior
At Wit's End
Pale Blue Dot
Paralyzed
Fall Into the Light
S2N
Room 137
Untethered Angel
Out of Reach
exactly my Order too ! :metal
-
1- Barstool Warrior.
It's classic prog rock song. The intro remind me SDOIT (2nd disc) and a bit Octavarium song itself.
Very upbeat song, kinda Surrounded V2. I love the lyrics and outro vocals.
-
1 - At Wit's End
2 - Pale Blue Dot (ex aequo)
2 - Barstool Warrior (ex aequo)
4 - Out Of Reach
5 - Room 137
6 - Paralyzed
7 - Viper King
8 - S2N (ex aequo)
8 - Fall Into The Light (ex aequo)
10- Untethered Angel
Fantastic album, way exceeding my expectations. My favourite since SFAM, head and shoulders above anything coming after Train Of Thought. In a way I feel this album is what Systematic Chaos would have loved to be, but never was.
-
1 - At Wit's End
2 - Pale Blue Dot (ex aequo)
2 - Barstool Warrior (ex aequo)
4 - Out Of Reach
5 - Room 137
6 - Paralyzed
7 - Viper King
8 - S2N (ex aequo)
8 - Fall Into The Light (ex aequo)
10- Untethered Angel
Fantastic album, way exceeding my expectations. My favourite since SFAM, head and shoulders above anything coming after Train Of Thought. In a way I feel this album is what Systematic Chaos would have loved to be, but never was.
Excuse my stupidity but what is the ex aequo representing?
Thanks
-
I know that some of you will probably say that I'm crazy, but I think that Distance Over Time is my favorite DT album since SFAM. :hefdaddy
And I'm dead serious guys, to me DOT is even better than Train Of Thought and Six Degrees.
This kind of talk is just blowing my mind! I have only heard the singles, so I'm counting down the hours...
But it's just so hard to believe that 30 years into their (album releasing) career that they could have some many good ideas left?
I mean, who does this so late in their career? Sure there's Rush and Maiden... but this seems like a different sort of achievement.
-
Excuse my stupidity but what is the ex aequo representing?
Thanks
No stupidity to be excused there. It's a latin expression roughly meaning that the two songs are equal. It's very common in Italian when referring to joint winners of competitions or tournaments. I didn't expect it to be unknown in English!
So basically, at this (admittedly early) point, I like those songs just the same.
Actually, having just re-listened to S2N, I think I should probably rank it higher than Viper King.
-
The potential success of this album is not one bit surprising to me. I think they were pretty clear in their goal to re-unite the fan base after they lost some poeple with TA. Secluding themselves to do the writing, just like everything leading up to this made me think the potential was there for a top notch DT album. So far, seems to be the case from reading here. Looking forward to that back end of the album with PBD and ATE, I feel like those are going to be really fantastic tracks.
-
This kind of talk is just blowing my mind! I have only heard the singles...
You know, in a way, I almost feel like they have done themselves a disservice with the singles on the last few album cycles. And I don't mean to be controversial by saying that. What I mean is just that, while the singles have been "fine," they aren't by any means the songs that end up being favorites among the vast majority of fans. So since we the fans get to hear what are often some of the "lesser" tracks on a given album first, it's almost like we have a hurdle to overcome in liking a new album when it comes out.
-
Hope to get a D/T Forum design soon :coolio
-
Excuse my stupidity but what is the ex aequo representing?
Thanks
No stupidity to be excused there. It's a latin expression roughly meaning that the two songs are equal. It's very common in Italian when referring to joint winners of competitions or tournaments. I didn't expect it to be unknown in English!
So basically, at this (admittedly early) point, I like those songs just the same.
Actually, having just re-listened to S2N, I think I should probably rank it higher than Viper King.
Much appreciated. :coolio
-
2- Room 137
The song they never did something like before. Feels like experimental song with some heavy direction musically and vocally. At first listen it shows me that it's very hard song to get used to. I like it overall.
-
I think I mentioned this earlier, but I love the new song titles. Very different feel from how Dream Theater songs are usually named. Little touches like that can subconsciously make an album feel more special or unique.
-
Why is this not on Spotify? I no longer have the capability to play CDs!
I know, first world problems. lol
-
Why is this not on Spotify? I no longer have the capability to play CDs!
I know, first world problems. lol
You have to wait till midnight in your timezone
-
3- S2N
Wow, the intro! John Myung shines first and then JP and JR take the lead. Quite different song considering their discography. It's like ripped off of Illumination Theory and Octavarium but improved in every aspect. The outro sounds like from ToT. I kinda find it strange this vocal style they used but it doesn't bother at all, it fits.
-
I can’t wait to hear this. I’m on holiday in France this week. Wi-fi is practically non-existent and mobile data coverage is poor. It might be Saturday night when I get home that I’m able to listen to it fully, and it’s killing me! ;D
We (the French fan club) are having a release party tomorrow in Paris, so if you're around, come and say hi! 7PM at Dr Feelgood les Halles (near the museum of modern art Pompidou). The entire album, good beer, good food and some great stuff to be won (the album, some fan club CDs and guitar picks)
-
I can’t wait to hear this. I’m on holiday in France this week. Wi-fi is practically non-existent and mobile data coverage is poor. It might be Saturday night when I get home that I’m able to listen to it fully, and it’s killing me! ;D
We (the French fan club) are having a release party tomorrow in Paris, so if you're around, come and say hi! 7PM at Dr Feelgood les Halles (near the museum of modern art Pompidou). The entire album, good beer, good food and some great stuff to be won (the album, some fan club CDs and guitar picks)
Damn, too bad I live in the most remote corner of France :-[ (I am not even any good with French). I would have loved a listening party!
-
So, my pre-order came early. I just got done with my first listen.
Just so everyone knows, I haven’t read anyone else’s posts on this thread because I didn’t want what I have to say to be influenced by anyone else’s thoughts or opinions at this stage. I just wanted to share my raw feelings about this album with you all right now.
So, without further ado…
OH…MY…GOD!!! :omg: WHAT AN INCREDIBLE ALBUM! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Holy shit... I have not enjoyed any album, let alone a DT album, so much on first listen for a very, very long time. Possibly ever. It took me to places I was not expecting to go.
As the album unfolded, I couldn’t help but smile, and burst out laughing, and at one particular point, I burst into uncontrollable tears of joy. My mouth is still hurting from smiling so much right now.
Why? Because THIS is the band I fell in love with 15 years ago. A band that can transport me to all these different places, nearly everything I could possibly want to hear in my music. And after having not been particularly crazy about the majority of their output since Portnoy left the band all those years ago, I was not expecting to feel this way again about their music.
Just so that you guys know where I’m coming from, I was in the camp that absolutely loved the Astonishing because concept albums, music that tells a story, are something that really appeal to me. And also, I just loved the fact that they were bold enough to make such an album when they knew full well it was not likely to be loved universally, even within the existing fanbase. I love this band so much that I’ve always just wanted them to make the music they want to make, not necessarily what they think we as fans want to hear - which I always felt was something they tried to do with ADToE, and where I felt that they were going with this album following the reception of the Astonishing. So for that reason, I had set my expectations pretty low for this one.
But as it happens, I now feel like I couldn’t have been more wrong.
I’ve been paying attention to what the guys have been saying in interviews, and I know all about how they stayed together in this studio over the summer and really bonded while making this album, which they haven’t done in years. I got the impression that the brotherhood between them was a core component to this album. I also remember reading, or hearing somewhere, that they wanted to make sure there was a “fun” element to this music. And those two things, I think, were absolutely key to making this album so much more enjoyable to me than any of theirs in recent memory. I can hear it in every single song. The five of them are all totally on the same page, making the music they want to make, and having an absolute blast playing it. It really comes through on this album, and I think it’s something that may have been missing (or at least, not quite as present) on most recent albums - for example, the Astonishing, due to the fact that it was entirely written by John and Jordan alone.
The album is definitely more concise than we have come to expect from a band that usually makes a point of filling up the entire disc. And as it turns out, that is no bad thing at all. It gets to the point, and yet none of the elements we would expect to hear from Dream Theater music are missing. There are plenty of heavy moments. There’s a number of quiet moments. There’s a lot of epic moments. And, oh my god, plenty of crazy instrumentals.
Oh my god, the musicianship on this album. Even for a band of virtuosos, this is absolutely off the charts. I lost count of the number of times my mouth fell open, blown away by what I was hearing. Here we have a bunch of men in their 50’s, and one other in their 60’s, who have been playing this kind of technically challenging music for decades, and yet it feels like they’ve lost absolutely none of their enthusiasm, creativity, energy or precision. Rather, they seem to have reached a new level here that seems barely believable. I really am blown away by it.
So, what were the specific highlights for me? Well, considering I have only just listened to this album once I can't recall too many specifics, but a few of them are:
- The first two minutes of Barstool Warrior. This is one of the first moments of the album that really just made me smile, and feel like the album was starting to take me on an interesting adventure. In fact, this song as a whole was really epic and I feel will probably be one of my favourites.
- S2N - oh my god, JM’s bass riff kicks untold levels of ass. So according to interviews, this riff was the catalyst for several songs on the album, but only ended up becoming one of its own at the very end of the process. But wow, I can totally understand why the guys took it in so many different directions. This is a really, really fun song and if I recall, has an amazing instrumental section. I remember hearing a spoken voice quietly saying “wow…” before the final chorus - a moment which made me laugh out loud with joy as it, for me, totally captured the spirit of the album and how I was feeling at the time listening to it.
- The outro of At Wit's End and the false ending - a nice, unexpected touch.
- Pale Blue Dot. Just... the whole thing. What an incredible rollercoaster of a song. It reminded me so much of why I first became really interested in this band - the incredible musicianship and the crazy time signature changes. I tried to keep up as best as I could while listening to it, trying to understand what time signature they were playing in and where the downbeat was, but after a while realising it’s completely futile, and again, just laughing a laughter of joy. And this was even BEFORE it got to the instrumental section. OH GOD, that instrumental section. You know how that passage near the beginning of Lost Not Forgotten is referred to as the “tickle” section, because it just kept on going and getting crazier and crazier? Well, this was very much like that - times half a dozen or so. When I listened to this moment, something quite phenomenal came over me. I have already mentioned that the music kept making me laugh a laughter of joy, but this section absolutely pushed me over the edge - and suddenly, there I was, laughing and crying uncontrollably. This song, this album was so much better, so much more enjoyable, and so much more fun than I have dared expect, or even imagine.
As an afterthought, that bonus track was - interesting. And really awesome. It was just a fun-ass song with really cool, groovy riffs and rhythms that I don't generally expect to hear in Dream Theater. But it fucking ruled. It almost make me wonder why they don't make more straight-ahead "rocking" tracks like this one!
I really was not expecting this much of an emotional experience, and it felt amazing. My all-time favourite band is back.
I'm still feeling the buzz right now and I got the end of the album about an hour ago.
If any of you guys enjoy this album a fraction as much as I did, then oh my god are you in for something really special. :tup ;D :D
-
4- At Wit's End
Hands down, their best mid-epic since Trail Of Tears. Wow, what a journey. Everything is just perfect. Vocals are intense, James is the MVP second with JP. This is the guitar solo I'm looking for. Not overplayed or soulless just it's what it's meant to be. I absolulety love the fading guitar solo in the end but still the outro is surprising. Not in a bad way!
-
This kind of talk is just blowing my mind! I have only heard the singles...
You know, in a way, I almost feel like they have done themselves a disservice with the singles on the last few album cycles. And I don't mean to be controversial by saying that. What I mean is just that, while the singles have been "fine," they aren't by any means the songs that end up being favorites among the vast majority of fans. So since we the fans get to hear what are often some of the "lesser" tracks on a given album first, it's almost like we have a hurdle to overcome in liking a new album when it comes out.
Just to add to my last post, I know exactly what you mean and I totally agree. I had already listened to all three of the singles of this album before I got the album today, and whilst I had quite liked what I heard for the most part, none of them really blew me away or got me particularly pumped for the album. But listening to the full album, start to finish, is something else.
To me, Dream Theater has always been about the full album's experience, rather than just one or two tracks. For that reason, I don't think the idea of "singles" really works for a band like this one. And I totally agree, in most cases the tracks that have been released from previous albums as "singles" have generally not been my favourite ones anyway.
-
I still think Paralyzed and FITL hold up with the rest of the album. It's only UA that I think is a weaker track (and yet, it's still a good song that would walk onto most albums since Systematic Chaos)
-
Why? Because THIS is the band I fell in love with 15 years ago.
Very well put. That's something I omitted to remark on few pages back in my review. As I was listening to that blistering four-song run I thought to myself "Where have you guys been all this time?"
It honestly feels like they just dropped through a wormhole in fabric of spacetime to when they were at their most creative.
An exhilirating ride, this album. I really hope it gets the commercial, artistic and media coverage recognition it deserves because it is so obvioys the guys put their heart and mind into this one.
-
4- At Wit's End
Hands down, their best mid-epic since Trail Of Tears. Wow, what a journey. Everything is just perfect. Vocals are intense, James is the MVP second with JP. This is the guitar solo I'm looking for. Not overplayed or soulless just it's what it's meant to be. I absolulety love the fading guitar solo in the end but still the outro is surprising. Not in a bad way!
This song is one of the pinnacles and defining moments of their career.
The musicianship, the execution, the subject matter, the emotional impact...the lot.
-
I feel like it's The Bigger Picture's overactive hyper cousin.
-
These reviews are taking my anticipation level to an extreme!! :o
-
I feel like it's The Bigger Picture's overactive hyper cousin.
Disagree. I think At Wit's End is by far superior in every regard. The emotion is much more believable, at least to me. Not just from James, but from the entire band. The sound is warmer overall as well. I don't dislike TBP, but AWE is...well...awesome. Yeah, I did that. :facepalm:
-
I feel like it's The Bigger Picture's overactive hyper cousin.
Disagree. I think At Wit's End is by far superior in every regard. The emotion is much more believable, at least to me.
Seconded.
Also, unlike TBP, AWE is good.
(Sorry.)
-
Hey guys, I didnt hear it yet (one hour counting), but is it this good as you say it is? Enjoying all the posts sofar...keep them coming!!
-
I feel like it's The Bigger Picture's overactive hyper cousin.
Disagree. I think At Wit's End is by far superior in every regard. The emotion is much more believable, at least to me. Not just from James, but from the entire band.
So I do agree with what you say. I am one that feels like The Bigger Picture was a missed opportunity. I'm not the biggest fan of TBP, but AWE is what I envision TBP could or should have been.
-
5- Out Of Reach
Some of you can be familiar with James' solo stuff "Smashed" from EoP. Mike's drumming is like coming from this song (funny Smashed has his drumming too.) Best ballad from Mangini's Era for sure. Through Her Eyes and Anna Lee are combined with modern sound and with a lovely piano ending.
-
Allow me some background exposition (and excuse my sometimes twisted english) from where I'm coming from, because DTF members are not exclusively known for their impeccable taste, but I can't take it from you, not having a short attention span. I mean it takes almost inhuman stamina to devour The Astonishing in one go.
A friend bought WD&DU and when he played it for me, I wasn't impressed. I'm a little audiophile and loved productions from Trevor Horn and obviously Mutt Lange. So the sound of WD&DU contributed to my lukewarm perception. I was forgetting about its existence fast and still sometimes make the mistake, when discussing DT, that I&W wasn't the band's debut.
That changed big time, the day I&W was released. It blew off my ass. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
We already had Kansas, Yes, King Crimson, but the merging of hair metal (I don't like the term, but I use it for communication simplification) with Prog was all new and stunning. Some bands like Queensryche or Winger hinted at it, but didn't fully realize it like DT did.
At the time of the release I was working as a merchandiser for a small german record label (Rockport / we had some
lesser known prog/rock acts like Peter Hammill or the mighty Rodgau Monotones on board).
I was on tour with Peter Hammill with a camper for about 3 weeks. There was a lot of downtime between arriving at
the next city and setting up my stand and selling the products. 90% of that time I spent listening to I&W in the camper over and over while I was actively preventing the possibility to see through the windows from both sides and I didn't need curtains...if you catch my drift.
At that point DT was 3rd of my most beloved bands. After Yes and Def Leppard. Awake came and I loved it too.
Not as much as I&W, but I couldn't hope for a better successor. In contrast to many DT fans, I thought F2I was the logical evolution by becoming more mature. Song is king and not a bitch to carry your awesome shredding, math and counting skills. I thought Peruvian Skies, Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears were great songs and I liked the rest, too. This should be the last time, imho, DT had a well rounded production. When they started to produce their albums by themselves, I thought it sounded good enough, but not great. They (or he) nailed the pressure part, but lacking a little brilliance. Sharpness. Openness.
With every following album I became more jaded with DT. I belong to the minority, if there is any, who doesn't think
SfaM was their untouchable masterpiece, but I never was a big concept album guy anyway. Octavarium was the first
recording that left me cold. SC and BC&SL didn't do much more for me either. I liked them alright for 3 or 4 spins and moved on.
A Dramatic Turn of Events impressed me at first, but my enthusiasm faded fast, and only thinking of revisiting it,
fills me with dread like only The Astonishing can to an even greater degree.
Call me crazy, but I believe with persons you really love, there is an empathic, telepathic connection and I would like
to think sometimes I'm receiving vibes from a band being in the studio. This happened with DT this time again, so I
was looking forward to the new album with some excitement I haven't felt for the band in a long time.
I didn't listen to the 3 singles (yeah right) releases and red no reviews, because why should I spoil myself.
So here's my first time through impression:
The Astonishing felt like work. DoT is fun again.
Did the album leave me happy and satisfied like being rocked and begging for mercy ? Almost. Almost is quite an
achievement these days. Metal (progressive, classic or modern) bores me to shreds these days (I did enjoy the last
Priest though) and DT is still on top of their game.
It's still rewarding to follow DTs journey, as every album is the reaction to the previous one. Constant evolution.
I had to adjust to the production/mix/mastering. It sounded a bit muddy at first, but cranking it up improved the experience. At first I thought the voice is too low in the mix, but now I think they knew what they were doing. It's probably for the better. I don't like when James sings with a lot of breathing sounds (a.k.a. cheese) and maybe the mix does reduce it a bit. Just a hunch.
While the all around drum sound is an improvement, I still don't like the snare. Does not sound natural in my ears,
but that's a matter of taste. I leave a final verdict on the production quality remain open. Typing this, the guitar
jumped in my face. Alien style. Ok,ok...JP: Your guitar is still star of the show and the production might be the best
of the self produced era.
Untethered Angel: Not DT by numbers, but a very well written song. One of my early favorites.
Some folks wrote the chorus of Paralyzed is boring. I think it's working. Makes my head move.
Instantly fell in love with the solo of Barstool Warrior. Hell yes ! Probably my favorite moment of the album.
JP riffing all over the album. Yes ! Much desired after TA.
Fall into the light. Does somebody else get a Megadeth vibe from the main riff ?
[zones out]
Viper King is a quality track and I do think it fits with the rest just fine. I'd put it at position 3 to loosen up (Winger
reference) the album flow a bit.
Strong album overall. I'd put it like this:
I&W>Awake>F2I>6DoIT>SfaM>[DoT]>ToT>BCaSL>DT>O>SC>ADToE>TA>WD&DU
I'm a chronic running order changer (if I care enough):
01 Untethered Angel
02 Paralyzed
03 Viper King
04 Barstool Warrior
05 Fall Into the Light
06 Out of Reach
07 Room 137
08 At Wit's End (cut@8.17)
09 S2N
10 Pale Blue Dot
Happy honeymoon everybody.
-
Eighty eight motherfucking minutes to go. :metal
-
OK, just finished my first listening :
Favorites on first listen : UA, S2N, At Wit's End (this one in particular is fabulous!).
The album seems dark and heavy, but not Awake-dark or ToT-heavy, it's something different. Will have to listen a lot more to get it I think. It's all good from S2N on (I include Viper King as well). Don't know what to think of the 4 songs from Paralyzed to Room 137 yet.
B.Lee
-
Wow, I am really encouraged by all the positive feedback! Looking so forward to this. Due to shortage of time tonight, I may just skip to Pale Blue Dot.
-
I'm super hyped as well!
Seems like the album has a lot of great tracks, not only 1-2 standout ones.
-
Wow, I am really encouraged by all the positive feedback! Looking so forward to this. Due to shortage of time tonight, I may just skip to Pale Blue Dot.
From what I'm reading, you should go to At Wit's End if you're pressed for time.
Some have felt let down by their high expectations of PBD, but acknowledge the awesome (albeit disjointed) riffs. Additionally, AWE was the first song written for the album, so it's probably the freshest sounding one. Like, "we've been touring The Astonishing and I&W for the last 2 years. Here's all our pent up musical ideas that we've been wanting to write"
-
Very enjoyable album actually. Not going to fawn over it like is comon with a lot of people on every dt release.
But all in all a really good album that will get many listens from me.
-
I'll be honest, this is my favorite album from them, even considering the classic ones, and it has been for a good while that I haven't been enjoying listening to a new album THAT much. (I think last time was when Deadwing was released back in 2005 - !)
Still, I'm never was really a fan of DT. I've discovered them during the 6 Degrees era and listened a lot the Awake and Image and Words album, which I still love. But DT never really was my cup of tea, the technical stuff were kinda so-so and there was way too much cheesy stuff especially on their later albums, mainly the chorus melodies and harmonies. It has been only recently that I decided to revisit them (especially due to the new album announcement) and I just decided to listen to the older stuff and have some fun, regardless of how much technical non-sense stuff there was in some of their songs and the cheesiness of some melodies and lyrics. I think Octavarium was the last album of them that I've actually enjoyed, bar ADToE, and the new singles released didn't do much to me, except Paralyzed which hooked me early on, so my expectations were "hey, another DT album with the same stuff".
But then when I started listening to the whole thing, and Barstool Soldier intro started, it was an instant kick in my face, holy hell, this shit is awesome, and then the whole album clicked on me. I even enjoy now all the singles. The mixing of the album is a bit too loud for my tastes, but fuck, everything here sounds awesome and everything has its own place. There are power and energy in the songs, the amount of "filler" has been replaced by more mature songwriting and everything is so tightly placed together. The album is really heavy, thanks to the lower keys and the guitar sounds beautiful and killer. Ruddess decided this time to focus on more tradition keyboards tones, such as Hammond organ and pianos and, hell, he never sounded so good. The bass also feels big and very present, even with the heavy djent-like guitar. JLB also is awesome singing some really memorable melodies.
The album has some sort of dark-blue vibe that really makes this different from the previous recent albums. I also love the mixing on ADToE (which is tighter) but this feels big and impactful, especially the last two releases that disappointed a lot in that regarding, and then SC and BC&SL which didn't offer anything new compared to their previous efforts.
As a (mediocre) keyboardist player whose prefers atmosphere, feeling and groovy above complexity, they have really succeeded and surpassed themselves, making a technical album but that is above anything full of soul and heart. Song Ranking:
1 - S2N: The most rocking outro from Dream Theater.
2 - Barstool Warrior: Awesome intro, awesome song.
3 - Paralyzed: Best short song from them, awesome intro too.
4 - At Wit's End: Another amazing outro.
5 - Pale Blue Dot: Didn't enjoy much at first, but it has grown on me a lot
6 - Room 137: Very different and heavy, awesome guitar work.
7 - Fall Into the Light
8 - Viper King: One of the most fun tracks and very different from previous DT work
9 - Out of Reach: Really beautiful ballad without the cheesiness of Wither or Forsaken
10 - Unthered Angel: The most typical DT track, but still better than any single I remember since SC.
Album ranking:
S tier: DoT, Awake, 6D, I&W, SFOM
A tier: ToT, Octavarium, ADToE
B tier: FII, BC&SL
C tier: SC, self-titled, TA
-
I feel like it's The Bigger Picture's overactive hyper cousin.
Disagree. I think At Wit's End is by far superior in every regard. The emotion is much more believable, at least to me. Not just from James, but from the entire band.
The Bigger Picture is one of my favorite DT songs!
So I do agree with what you say. I am one that feels like The Bigger Picture was a missed opportunity. I'm not the biggest fan of TBP, but AWE is what I envision TBP could or should have been.
-
How 'bout a countdown for the new background skins for the DTF site??? :metal
-
My judgment is, it is definitely the best MM era album, and it's placed somewhere in the 8V, BCSL region in the overall discography (which are in the upper third of my DT ranking).
Top tunes are AWE, FITL and BW, weak tunes are Viper King (no surprise) but also, gasp, PBD IMO.
The sound is as good as modern DT sound will get, with the minor caveat of MM's hihat (the rest of the kit sounds great however).
The weakest aspect of the album for me are the vocals, which often don't add much to the song.
After TA I was afraid they would play it really really safe to shore up their fan base, but I'm happy to see that D/T was rather used as a "Befreiungsschlag" (German for "an attacking hit to get yourself out of a corner"). I'm looking forward to seeing this live.
-
Much of the awesomeness of AWE and Barstool Warrior is James' emotional delivery, so I disagree that the vocals are just there. The uniqueness of Room 137 is in large part because of the Beatles like vocal arrangement.
For the hi-hats, I am not sire why but the cymbals in my iTunes download is so.mich clearer than the Spotify stream.
-
Really, really enjoying this album, and what excites me is the fact that so many of the songs I flat out want and need to revisit, as there is so much going on - and other albums like this have ended up being my absolute favourites. I too love the sound of AWE and BW, and I did hear someone mention this before, but I love Viper King and definitely feel it fits well enough in the album if pushed up the order. I really enjoyed PBD on first listen too - gave me a real SFAM vibe actually, and I feel there’s so much more to explore there. The ballad OOR is beautiful - what is there is one of the very best ballads they have done, I just can’t help but think it needed another repeat of the beautiful, big chorus to round it out. StN is another like PBD for me - love the initial listen, and so much yet to explore. R137 is an interesting one - at first it was a little straight up, but it gets far more interesting by the second.
Overall on first listen, this could well be right up in my top 5, and with so much more listening and exploring to do, I couldn’t be happier. Great job guys!
-
This wait is killing me here in Texas...still got 6 hours :-\
-
I just finished my 3rd listen and just....wow! DT have seriously knocked it out of the park with this one! I can safely say this is their best work since 8vm for me. The production is perfect and each member has the perfect tone, the songs are simple, yet still maintain that signature DT sound and style. The pacing of the songs, the way the album flows is outstanding and some of their most melodic material is on this album, especially showcased in JP's soloing. It may be a 57 minute album, but it feels no longer than 30!
They better play At Wit's End on this upcoming tour....I HAVE to hear it live. I can't ever recall being so emotionally moved by a DT song...I never want that outro solo to end, it sounds like heaven.
Oh, and one more thing.....hopefully this record will finally shut the Mangini haters up, cuz he is truly unleashed on this one!!
-
I can echo the reviews so far: what a really great album. It is tight, heavy and sounds very good, the production is a breath of fresh air. The songs are a bit more compressed than usual, but there is still all of the virtuosity that one expects from DT. And John Petrucci is on fire: great riffs and a number of excellent solo's added to the collection. I look forward to listening to this album a lot the coming days and months.
-
In a couple of hours I'm gonna drive off location for a few miles to get enough 4G to download my digital copy, almost there!
-
wow just wow 😮 after first listening im totally blown away. I listen to these guys 26 years now but I can’t remember I was so positive shocked after first listening. the whole album works so fine. great production great drums beautiful guitar solos it’s just so enjoyable to listen. that’s the band I falled in love 26 years ago. so happy after boring DT12 and for me not working Astonishing. great output thank you DT for this record.
-
First impressions:
I'm not that blown away after the first listen as most of you but a good album for sure.
Somewhat surprisingly my early favorites are:
1. Room 137!
2. S2N (wow!)
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. At Wit's End
I'm not including the singles here as I heard them a lot of times and it wouldn't be a fair comparison at the moment.
I feel that BW, AWE and PBD has a significant amount of growing potential as well for me so I won't be surprised if those three would be my TOP3 after a dozen or so spins. :D
Out of Reach does nothing to me, and Barstool Warrior is a bit of a letdown after the praise it got.
Overall very decent, but it's too early to compare it to other DT albums. I would be surprised however if it would ever trouble my all-time TOP2 (SFAM and 6DOIT).
-
I just got this! They were selling it today and I grabbed it.
This is such a fun record, I haven't had so much fun listening to DT in a long time. This, to my ears, is the album DT13 should've been.
Definite highlights, by far: Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot.
I like there are no 10+ minute songs, and they kinda trimmed all the fat. An idea similar to what they did with DT13, but let's face it: the songs are way cooler.
-
To me, this is an album reminiscent of DT12, though considerably better and with a much better mix. I've taken a good 4 listens to the album, and here are my thoughts. Apologies for the length of this post.
The Good
This may be their best sounding album, mix-wise, in the MM era. DT12 sounded too filtered (sounded like they cut too much off the high end) and mid-heavy, and was the infamous "triggered drums" era of Mangini. Mangini's snare also sounded very dark and boomy.
Everything on DoT sounds brighter, and Myung's bass seems to have more bottom end. The cymbals are nice and bright, and everything seems panned nicely. JP's tone also sounds even more fantastic than usual. Not only the leads, but the rhythm sections as well.
Did I mention this is THE best Mangini? Not only the sound of his drums, but what he’s playing. I feel like he has finally come out of his shell and has fully arrived with a vengeance. Outstanding!
The only thing I don't really like is that they seem to be using a de-esser for James, and the frequency they are compressing makes his "S sounds" sound weird at times. Extremely small gripe though.
I also appreciate that there are a lot of heavy sections on this album. The 3 "singles" all contain some killer riffs, and Room 137 and Pale Blue Dot are also nice and heavy.
My favorite tracks have got to be Fall Into The Light, S2N, Barstool Warrior and Pale Blue Dot.
Barstool Warrior is awesome. I didn't think I'd like this one based on the title, but it's a beautiful song. Petrucci sounds absolutely fantastic on this song. I also really love the verses, and of course the chorus.
S2N really surprised me. When I heard the sampler, I wasn't in love with the chorus. But in the context of the song, it's definitely become my favorite chorus on the album. Also, that riff at the end of the song is awesome! Reminds me very much of the ending to TDEN - how everything just breaks down as a brand new riff is introduced to close out the song, giving JR free roam to work his magic all over the track.
Another standout part of the album is that riff in Pale Blue Dot around 1:50. It has a sort of menacing sound, and it fits nicely with the chaos of the universe. This song in general reminds me a lot of Avenged Sevenfold's "Exist", in that both tracks are album closers about the universe, and both having speech samples from known astronomers in their intros, before breaking into some chaotic riffs. Really love JP's ending solo too. Those trills give the most accurate musical representation of the "unknown" reaches of space I've heard.
At Wit's End is also good, but not quite as good as I'd hoped based on reviews. It seemed to be one of the early standouts, but again, it sounds very DT12-esque to me so this lowered my enjoyment. I do think this track has the potential to be a grower though. I really wished it'd have been a proper 9 minutes though, as the last 2 minutes are basically just the fade out/in.
Paralyzed is a tough one. I think I like it now, but I hated it when they first released it. The intro really reminds me of Disturbed (who I hate), but Labrie's excellent vocal melodies are really starting to grow on me.
Finally, I like that there is only one ballad on this album. ADToE had 3 ballads. Beneath The Surface is one of my favorite DT ballads, but if Far From Heaven was replaced by one more killer song, I feel like ADToE would be among my fav DT albums ever.
The Not As Good
My biggest fear is how well it will age. DT12 aged terribly for me, and though I like DoT better at this point, I'm not sure if I will still be listening in the years to come. Out of every band I've ever known, DT holds the crown for having the best replay value through the last 20+ years I've listened to them. I still get goosebumps when listening to songs like SDoIT, Octavarium, ACoS...hell - pretty much 90%of their stuff.
But this album, while great, doesn't quite seem to have all of the intricacies that are responsible for that replay value. Maybe it's my own fault for listening to so much DT in the past that almost nothing they do can seem fresh. But there is just something about this album that doesn't have me listening constantly like I did when their other albums first came out.
As a small example, Petrucci's solo in Barstool Warrior sounds very similar to his melodic lead sections in Surrender To Reason or The Bigger Picture. Not particularly a bad thing, as those were my favorite parts from those songs. But if this was the first time I'd heard such a solo, I would be absolutely in love with it.
I'm really not a fan of Room 137. The riffs are awesome, but the vocal melodies just don't do it for me. I always like to think that songs are growers, but I honestly just don't see myself ever liking this song.
I'm also not really feeling Out of Reach. I appreciate that they put one ballad on the album, and it's not a bad song by any means. But it will definitely get lost in a sea of other DT songs I'd rather listen to.
So overall, there are only 2 songs I actively dislike. This is not bad, as it's par for the course with every DT album after ToT (aside from BC&SL, on which I liked every song - though there were only 6 total). On DT12, there were 4 songs I disliked (FAS, TEM, TLG, and AFtR), which is almost half of the album.
The album honestly isn't blowing me away so far, but it's still early and it could end up as my second favorite MM-era album.
Early Rating
It may be too early to rate, as I've only listened to the album around 4 times. But I'd give it a 7.5
And for good measure, here are my ratings of all past full-length LaBrie-era DT albums:
I&W: 10
Awake: 7
FII: 6.9
SFaM: 10
SDoIT: 10
ToT: 10
O8V: 8
SC: 8.2
BC&SL: 8.6
ADToE: 9
DT12: 6.5
TA: 7.5
DoT: 7.5
-
Dt just posted a live video from the listening party, looks like the folks over there are having a blast.
I'm jelly.
-
Axeman is there.
-
Let's talk shit about him.
-
Whoops, hit reply instead of edit. Disregard this
-
3 hours to go in my timezone :metal
-
Upon initial listens DoT is probably in my top 5 Dream Theater albums. I don’t think my initial reaction is recency bias, as I was never partial to The Astonishnig and DT12 had to grow on me. DoT is pretty much everything I wanted in a DT album: concise riffy tunes, raw amazing guitar tones, less emphasis on Jordan trying to sound like a guitarist, and the right balance of prog to metal. The singles were the weakest songs on the album, and they’re not bad, they’re just not as interesting as the rest of the album. The mix is also miles better than the last few albums. Drums sounds great, bass is present and guitars sound incredible.
It really seems like everybody brought their A-game and camaraderie was at an all time high here. I’m so glad I got tickets for this tour (it’ll be my first time seeing them since 2005). I hope this energy and approach carries into the tour and subsequent albums.
-
I have Amazon music unlimited and am wondering if they will make the album available at midnight EST.
-
I have Amazon music unlimited and am wondering if they will make the album available at midnight EST.
Same here. I’ve held out being that it’s up on YouTube.
-
Does Amazon music unlimited let you download or just stream?
-
You can do both. Download is for offline use but is limited to the app itself. You can't download and copy the files to a PC or elsewhere.
-
From track 5 onwards, I'm in love. Some very spicy, groovy and fucking heavy stuff there. Dream Theater have risen out of the swamp of the past two albums, possibly nearing some of the 90s greatness in areas. I can tell instantly there is lots of replay value with the second half of the album, I'm impressed! :metal :metal :metal
-
OK, listening to this shit right now! :metal
-
Whoa Paralyzed! Dee Tee bringing on the MEO'LL! :metal
-
That fuckin outro though with the overlaying vocals and the main riff, good fuckin god this is sweet!
-
Amazing album!!!
I think that every track shines in its own way.
Some, like A Wit's End, Fall Into The Light and Pale Blue Dot have potential to become DT classics like Learning To Live and Trial Of Tears. Any has potential to become a top 5 or 10 DT song; hard to say how time will treat them.
I'm really impressed by the direct intensity of Room 137 and Viper King. Loved the underlying themes. Rocking, singing along with Labrie!
S2N and Barstool Warrior are great too, but somewhat curve balls. Haven't fully understood them, but I already really like them!
Paralyzed and Untethered Angel are great too. A little more on the safe side, but great songs with great melodies and riffs nonetheless. I hope that when I listen to the album around 30 times I'll be able to correctly assess these songs.
Out Of Reach is a good ballad. Nothing too impressing or different, but fine. Probably a little below the ballads of The Astonishing (which kicks ass with Chosen, Ravenskill, The Answer, A Life Left Behind, A Savior In The Square, When Your Time Has Come and my favorite, The X Aspect), and about on par with Anna Lee, Along For The Ride and Far From Heaven, so there's nothing to really complain.
Verdict: Dozens of listens for the singles, three for the full album. Certainly in my top 7. My current ranking:
1. SFAM
2. IAW
3. Awake
4. DOT
5. TA
6. SDOIT
7. BCASL
And I'm no sound engineer, but the album is sonically flawless to me.
-
UA - Cool intro song to album.
Paralyzed
FITL - I still love this one :laugh:
BW - Very good!
R137 - Very different! Love it!
2SN - Amazing song (even with the TDEN-like ending :'()
AWE - Could be in TA. Fade out/Fade in :justjen
OOR - FII era vibe? I liked it.
PBD - Need spin more times
VK - Very cool!
-
That at wit's end outro. :heart
-
Almost midnight here.
I still haven't heard any leaked versions of the album yet, just the 3 released songs.
Can't wait.
-
Just got home from the launch listening party!
It is more than what I expected. I’ll get this out the way now...BW did not do anything for me. It seems most people like it. I have to listen to it more and maybe it will grow on me.
S2N: amazing song
R137: awesome
AWE: probably will make it to my DT top 10, maybe top 5.
PBD: pretty cool, deff has potential to grow on me.
The album after 1 listen is deff really good. And the second half is better than the first.
-
Certainly in my top 7. My current ranking:
1. SFAM
2. IAW
3. Awake
4. DOT
5. TA
6. SDOIT
7. BCASL
And I'm no sound engineer, but the album is sonically flawless to me.
Why not just say top 4? Or is it that 4-7 can fluctuate any given day?
-
Strange how no one is really fussed on the ballad.. I think it’s beautiful, in sections James sounds almost IAW on that track
-
Strange how no one is really fussed on the ballad.. I think it’s beautiful, in sections James sounds almost IAW on that track
I liked it.
I really like DT ballads. Love BTS, FFH, AFTR, many on TA, etc.
-
Certainly in my top 7. My current ranking:
1. SFAM
2. IAW
3. Awake
4. DOT
5. TA
6. SDOIT
7. BCASL
And I'm no sound engineer, but the album is sonically flawless to me.
Why not just say top 4? Or is it that 4-7 can fluctuate any given day?
Exactly, they fluctuate a bit, and I didn't want to over-commit. It is 4th right now, but maybe after some familiarity is gained it could be a little lower. (But it has plenty of potential to go up too!) However, I don't believe it possible that it leaves the current TOP 7.
-
Hooray for Spotify releasing on Eastern Time.
-
Strange how no one is really fussed on the ballad.. I think it’s beautiful, in sections James sounds almost IAW on that track
I liked it.
I really like DT ballads. Love BTS, FFH, AFTR, many on TA, etc.
I like it, too. In fact, I like it more than most of their ballads primarily due to it not feeling quite so saccharine.
-
Finally off of work, at home, and comfortable. Time to dig in :hat :corn. Reading all of these reactions has me especially excited.
-
Which lyrics is Mangini's?
-
Which lyrics is Mangini's?
room 137
-
Is that Owen Wilson saying “Wow” after the instrumental in S2N?
-
James voice sounds so echo'y on this.
-
Overall, my thoughts from the other thread are still mostly the same. Barstool Warrior is my favorite track, followed by S2N and then probably AWE. It's a very consistent album overall. And the instrumental section in PBD is still insane!
The bonus track has some killer organ playing from JR, as well. Definitely should piss off SoA :lol
-
James voice sounds so echo'y on this.
That was probably my biggest dig on the album, that and JR sounds just like he has for 6 or 7 albums. Otherwise I was very pleased with the output. At Wit's End, Pale Blue Dot, Fall into the Light, S2N and Barstool are my favorites with At Wit's End taking the best track title. UA, Paralyzed and Out of Reach are meh, and 137 is quite forgettable.
ODTOA is still my fav of the MM era albums, and I'd love to see them shake that chunky sound in favor of something smoother, I think I've had my share of chocolate cake for a while.
-
i haven't read any of this thread but has anyone else commented on how barstool warrior sounds like a mike portnoy diss track
like, the guitar lead in the middle feels like a pretty direct reprise of the best of times and the lyrics seem to reference the 12-step track songs (especially the glass prison) but are also like, super pissed
-
i haven't read any of this thread but has anyone else commented on how barstool warrior sounds like a mike portnoy diss track
like, the guitar lead in the middle feels like a pretty direct reprise of the best of times and the lyrics seem to reference the 12-step track songs (especially the glass prison) but are also like, super pissed
I take the song as more a view of alcoholism from the perspective of the family around them. There's a definite tone of the disease without any of the recovery.
-
Never got that impression once while listening to it.
Plus, JP and MP are still good friends, so I can’t see JP writing an MP diss track. Especially something so personal.
-
New DT! Never been a better time to emerge from the shadows and offer some takes immediately after the first listen.
Barstool Warrior is some quality stuff. While I always make it a point to listen to the full album for the first time (no singles) it was hard to not listen to this one a second time immediately after hearing it. In fact, it's playing right now as I type this. The second Viper King ended I couldn't click back to this one fast enough. As the band was kicking it into gear during the intro I found myself unconsciously mouthing "She can't stop paciiiiing!"
Room 137- Mixed feeling here. The Manson riff is fun and heavy and all, and it's a solid track overall, but something about it just comes across as unnatural in a not so great way. I can't quite describe it. Maybe it's the use of the words "nevermore" and "forevermore" which are kind of a pet peeve of mine. When's the last time you heard someone just whip out the word "forevermore" in casual conversation? I feel like it was just invented as a way to fill song lyrics when you don't know what else to say.
At Wit's End- Here's Dream Theater turning back the clock. I can't wrap my head around how good some people are at playing guitar. It's an honor and a privilege to have Mr. Petrucci share his craft with us.
Pale Blue Dot- YAAAAAAS. Possibly my favorite on the album but it's way too early to tell. This is a winner all around. It feels like an epic. But it's not an epic. It reminds me of Puzzle Box from Haken's latest album. Here we have everything you could want in a song. Could they have made this song 14 minutes if they really wanted to? Probably. But that would entail throwing in unnecessary things that wouldn't make the song any better. I get the same feeling that I get when listening to Illumination Theory or Octavarium as if I just went on a huge journey through twists and turns. And all in 8 minutes. Bravo.
Viper King- This is awesome. Plain and simple. I laughed out loud and had a wonderful time just jamming by my lonesome trying not to wake the neighbors. I would LOVE to have been in the room with the guys as they were crafting this song. I'm sure it was an ongoing cycle of someone saying "are we REALLY doing this?" followed by 100 reasons as to why they are, in fact, doing it. Totally sounds like a cover or interpretation of something non-DT but who cares. Good music is good music.
I don't remember too much of the singles other than UA was great classic DT by the numbers, which I think is a good thing. Paralyzed... Yeah I had minimal expectations for this song and it's exactly what I thought it would be. As soon as I saw the generic metal song title slotted in the number 2 spot on the tracklist I said "yup, the tradition continues." Fall Into the Light, I honestly don't remember much about it but I remember thinking it was groovy. Middle of the pack as far as the album was concerned.
All in all, I am very happy with Distance Over Time. I can't wait to dig into it more. To have music of this quality this deep in a band's catalog is excellent. We're so spoiled and I hope the kings of prog metal will continue to inspire more bands in the same vein to make music and stretch the boundaries. Until next time!
-
Initial reactions:
Untethered Angel: Honestly this one hasn't been aging well for me. It feels like there's way too much going on structurally. Too many ideas and not enough development of existing ideas imo, even if those ideas are good. Seems like it would fit well on DT12 in that regard.
Paralyzed: Has aged really well so far. Really simple, but effective.
Fall Into the Light: Amazing from start to finish. Probably gonna take a break from this one for a bit tho because it's starting to border on overplayed at this point.
Barstool Warrior: I love the lyrics, but my first impression was that it was a bit inconsistent in musical tone. The first third doesn't really match up with the main body of the song and it didn't really grip me because of that. Could grow on me, but so far it's probably my least favorite.
Room 137: I LOVED this one. The lyrics are a bit goofy in a Systematic Chaos way, but it's a great song. The gigantic chorus swell transitioning into the main riff right at the end gave me jazz stank face. Gave me some Neal Morse and Ayreon vibes in parts. A fave for sure.
S2N: This was like everything I liked about Rush without Geddy Lee's vocals. Nothing could've prepared me for that freaking Owen Wilson "wow" sample in the middle. Like...what was that. It cracked me up. The outro riff and keyboard solo is fantastic. The guitar solo in the middle was very LTE. One of my favorites for sure, if not my favorite.
At Wit's End: That "DEAFENING DEAFENING SHUT IT OUT" part is gonna be stuck in my head for a while, pity it's only used once. Panning effects on keyboard solo were really cool. The solo piano section up to the 2nd guitar solo (minus that one random chunky riff in the middle) is one of the best moments on the album, but imo it comes way too soon in the song and doesn't really flow well from the previous section imo. Didn't care for the "post-credits scene", just felt kinda tacked on. Overall kind of inconsistent and not a fave.
Out of Reach: Intro kind of needs a pickup bar, because that start is really sudden and hard to jive with lol. When the chorus finally hits is a magical moment. Love all of it except for the sudden start. Another fave.
Pale Blue Dot: Digging the Symphony X/djent vibes throughout. Middle section got a little bit excessive towards the end imo. Kinda middle of the road for me. Has a lot of great bits, but it has DT12 syndrome a bit.
Viper King: YEAH. I unironically love this. This is funtastic.
Overall: Really solid, but not top tier. It ranks somewhere around Train of Thought (#6) and Images and Words (#7) for me. Has some fantastic strong moments, but the structural problems that plagued DT12 and Awake kinda pop-up here and there. JLB kills it and is consistent overall. Mangini kills it. Petrucci and Myung kill it. Rudess kills it, but he gets buried sometimes ( :( ). Everyone has a lot of great parts. Overall around a 4.5/5.0.
Song by song ranking:
01. S2N
02. Room 137
03. Fall into the Light
04. Viper King
05. Out of Reach
06. Paralyzed
07. Pale Blue Dot
08. At Wit's End
09. Untethered Angel
10. Barstool Warrior
Kinda weird that the epics ended up being some of my least favorite songs on the album lol. I honestly think this album is at its best on the more concise songs.
-
i haven't read any of this thread but has anyone else commented on how barstool warrior sounds like a mike portnoy diss track
like, the guitar lead in the middle feels like a pretty direct reprise of the best of times and the lyrics seem to reference the 12-step track songs (especially the glass prison) but are also like, super pissed
I take the song as more a view of alcoholism from the perspective of the family around them. There's a definite tone of the disease without any of the recovery.
like what gets me is how blatant the best of times reprise is, i heard it almost instantly and had to double-check to make sure
why would you do that
-
Listened to the album twice. Had heard the singles many times before. I have been a fan since SC and no other band has me as excited for their music new or old. That said, I didn't really like the subsequent albums compared to their past stuff, until TA. TA was a fresh lease of life for my fanhood because the band was still ready to shake things up. Also MM was more visible to me in TA despite not writing the music so I thought he is finally easing in. So come this album I was very pumped with the promotion and videos but when I heard comments of people on DTF about the songs my expectations were lowered (it's fair I guess since people would want to be somewhat objective about the songs).
But my oh my I was laughing with tears in my eyes listening to the tracks! Where have you been DT all this time??? I was again that snobby immature fan who would compare JP to other guitarists and fiercely defend him.
Based on reviews I thought it's safe to say that AWE and PBD would be my favourites. But after listening, it's S2N and Viper King! Other songs are awesome as well but those two were a one two knockout punch to all my preconceived notions about the band! S2N is all of them unleashed at another level and Viper King.....dear oh dear sometimes I wonder how many bands they can put out of business just like that! (See, immature again!)
Great album could break top 5 for me, I ll be spinning it like 30 more times and have more thoughts! Sorry for the long post but I was too giddy to stop!
-
I'll post more in depth thoughts after having a few more listens through and letting it sink in a bit, but here's a quick first impression;
Wow! I absolutely love this. The band just sounds focused, energetic, inspired. Also, listening to it and picking up this album's vibe, they sound like they really had fun with this one. It's such a great blend. *Chef's kiss*.
-
DREAM THEATER IS BACK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!
Finally breaking new ground! They actually show some restraint here, and there is a surprisingly low amount of excess or bloat on the album. Easily their best since ADToE, and quite possibly their most consistent album in a very very long time. This is everything DT12 should have been, the band reclaiming their crown as THE prog metal kings. It seems like they finally let Mangini out of his cage too. Well done DT!
Favorite songs: Barstool Warrior, At Wit’s End
-
I have no idea where to even start, and I'm exhausted. But the riffing and groove on this album is exactly what I've wanted for such a long time. So far I think it's my favorite MM album and I think it'll stay that way. His playing is so tasteful but holy Christ it's just sick at the same time. I'm blow away by the improvement in drum sound. I hope they continue this process in the future because, good god, it's working. I'm about to go back to listen to a couple stand-out songs (which is basically all of them besides the singles because I've heard them) again before falling asleep, but I'm gonna have this on repeat tomorrow at work. Barstool Warrior especially impressed me, I was a little hesitant based on their tendency to overdo the cheese a little. But that was never present in this album IMO. The Math-iness in Room 137 is dope, and it just sounds fresh and inspired. Mangini really has some great input (some of those fills in PBD are :censored mind blowing). I think the main groove for S2N was what I was most excited to hear from the studio teasers that were released. I like the the singles better in the context of the album, especially because they were up front, plus some pretty damn solid and unique pieces of their catalog. And the pacing of the album is spot on - nice and concise but also unpredictable, so much shredding, but also tasteful and emotional moments. An actual progressive journey. It's just a masterpiece as far as I can tell right now. At Whit's End and probably some others are top songs in the catalog at the moment. I'm very content with this album. It'll be up very high in my rankings.
God Bless America, as well JM's bass tone (and riffage). Amen. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
-
Ok, I must say I was a bit worried about this one. I had no expectations, I was worried this one will suffer from the Self-Titled, SC, or BCSL syndrome of having one 10/10 song and a bunch of meh ones. I'm so glad that I can say I love it! Definitely, the best MM-era album, though I really liked ADToE. TO me D/T is better than anything they've done past ToT, to be honest.
First of all, I love the production! It's been a while since their release sounded great IMO. This time they nailed it! Sounds organic, powerful, each member has his place and is audible. The drums are freaking amazing (!!!) and the guitar sounds awesome again (was muddy to me on two previous releases). Great job!
I love the technical bits, but I think emotional melodies are the strongest parts of the record. My favorites - hard to tell really! Each song has this "something" that makes it so good. Even "simpler" songs like S2N or Room 137 (which I think doesn't sound like anything they've done before). I think I love Barstool Warrior, At Wit's End (I feel these could be put on 6DOIT) and Pale Blue Dot (so fresh!) the most. Out Of Reach is really beautiful and Viper King is fun! Nice to see them doing a song that doesn't try to be "epic" and is pure rock'n'roll.
Right now I'm kinda skipping first 3 tracks, but I raped the repeat button when they were released, so I'm sure I'll go back to them.
I'm sure it will age well!
You nailed it, guys! Brilliant job!
-
This is not only EASILY the best Mangini era album, it's also the best DT album in over decade!
There are some weak points to the album. Untethered Angel is a weak opener, and Pale Blue Dot is a disappointment. Pretty much everything in between is quality stuff, with some of the best post 8VM DT songs. Barstool, Room 137, S2N and AWE are brilliant. Out of Reach to me is far from being a throwaway ballad, and Viper King would have totally fit in on the proper album! The opening riff after the organ strongly reminds me of Toto's song "Gypsy Train" :lol
A lot has already been said, but this is a legit return to form for the band! :metal
-
God Bless America, as well JM's bass tone (and riffage). Amen. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Yeah, best JM tone on any album, IMO!! :tup Digging the whole thing as far as 3 listens can go.
-
Wow, just wow...Reviews can be too short or too long, but I read we all agree there is at least a song to love for every DT fan across the world, and when you have the most critic and splitted fans on earth, it's just a challenge completed :D
I'll try to be as concise as I can, but like everyone, I'm just nutting everywhere right now !
The album's mix is great, we are litterally smacked by hard hits, stereo imaging makes everyone well heard, myung is all over the place, drums too !
JLB did a fantastic job, even if it's sometimes a little heavy on the effects side afterwise.
It's my favorite album since octavarium (I'm originally a SFAM/SDOIT/LTE fan for most).
UAngel = I like this song a lot, because I can't stop singing the chorus since the single's release, it's an efficient modern DT opener/single. Solos are great.
Paralysed = Still haven't clicked to me, maybe on more listens
Fall into the light = Felt like a tribute to metallica's proggest, without stealing of course, and it felt good ! The midsection is impressive. The organ solo is wicked evil and I listened it on repeat !
Barstool warrior = Mixed feelings for now, because it's an awesome song, but maybe I wished the astonishing was more like this one, the narration is enjoyable. Let's say it's kind of a known territory to me. JP solos are just wow.
Room 137 = What a riff, people talk about marylin manson but this is too heavy for him to do haha :D I love the singing too, the vocal harmonies and the psychedelic !
S2N = This one got me by surprise, the groove is sick, I love the chorus etc...A total success to me !
At wit's end = Got me a pair of listenings to get it all, but I'm sure now, it's only goosebumps and tears, with a satisfactory grin at the same time, a masterpiece.
Out of reach = I liked how it kept it tight starting the second verse, instead of mellowing and dissolving.
Pale blue dot = The immersive side of the song is awesome, from intro to sci-fi themes (that nitro star wars style single note riff !!!). I love the main rythmic pattern, well in fact I love everything in the song :D Maybe I wished for it to long 5 minutes more, the trip is never long enough with DT :D
Viper king = One of my favorite songs of the album, it's like an old song that got gamma irradiated, I wanna jump on my motorcycle and listen to it on repeat.
I didn't mention every moments I enjoyed because it would have no end, from the false end+wow in S2N to the little end jam at the end of AWE, all solos are bliss (and I can't wait to get the tab book).
Btw, I feel like JP opened a lot his soloing to other styles, like a little satriani touch and sometimes very singing melodies like in barstool (which reminds of the astonishing as for the articulation).
In the end, I think there is no modern DT album that feels new and at the same time makes us remind older albums, like some songs have like some FII vibe on steroids or AWE's riff gave me a therootOAE feel. It means it is all I love in this band !
Favs = S2N, AWE, PBD & viper king
-
I can’t wait to hear this. I’m on holiday in France this week. Wi-fi is practically non-existent and mobile data coverage is poor. It might be Saturday night when I get home that I’m able to listen to it fully, and it’s killing me! ;D
We (the French fan club) are having a release party tomorrow in Paris, so if you're around, come and say hi! 7PM at Dr Feelgood les Halles (near the museum of modern art Pompidou). The entire album, good beer, good food and some great stuff to be won (the album, some fan club CDs and guitar picks)
Damn, too bad I live in the most remote corner of France :-[ (I am not even any good with French). I would have loved a listening party!
Mate, thank you very much, but we’re skiing in the Alps, so we’re not close.
I would love to be better at French than I am, but I can order “un frîtes” and “un grand pression”, so that’s getting me through. :D
-
I haven't really been keeping up with news on the album; is the digipak version with the bonus track being sold in stores, or is that a website only thing?
I haven't really enjoyed a DT album since ADToE, but the reactions I'm seeing here are encouraging.
-
Viper King! :lol instant favorite!
-
God Bless America, as well JM's bass tone (and riffage). Amen. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Yeah, best JM tone on any album, IMO!! :tup Digging the whole thing as far as 3 listens can go.
I don't think JP's ever sounded better either. The way the bass and guitar work together during the heavy riffing is next level.
-
God Bless America, as well JM's bass tone (and riffage). Amen. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Yeah, best JM tone on any album, IMO!! :tup Digging the whole thing as far as 3 listens can go.
I don't think JP's ever sounded better either. The way the bass and guitar work together during the heavy riffing is next level.
Agreed on all accounts. Petrucci's tone is outstanding on this one and Myung is not only very audible but also has the coolest sound in ever.
-
I was initially disappointed at the lack of 10+ minute songs.. but that was pre-release.. Pale Blue Dot is actually shorter than AROP but encompasses everything staple in a DT epic with their complex movements and riffs.. my initial concern was that the 8 minute songs would follow a similar format to previous 8 minute DT songs but I was wrong! I may actually prefer it this way.. the technicality of each member baffles me on this, to take it up a notch further especially at their age is unbelievable. I feel like this album is almost a rebirth for DT
-
I was initially disappointed at the lack of 10+ minute songs.. but that was pre-release..
Yeah. With all the content packed into the songs nothing actually feels short.
-
I an on my nth listen and I have to say the best thing about this album is that it really sounds like it was a work of several creative minds. It's making me appreciate the Mangini-era albums in a different light, picturing a post-MP scenario where JP had to take the reins and put the burden of leading the band on his back. It's something they had to go through. But now, they are in a place where JP does not have to do as much of the carrying anymore, and everybody found their voice. As Mangini put it in his FB post:
"This is the only "everyone" band album I've ever been on since demos in 1987 with the Rick Berlin Band in Boston. I really think you can feel the ebb and flow with each member's personality, which makes this unmakeable unless all 5 have a voice. Kudos to Jimmy T. and Ben too. Petrucci made some legendary decisions and did more work than anyone can imagine. This decade has meant a lot of unplanned pressure on him and maybe a few other people too in different ways. And here we are; evolved; learned and happy. That's a win."
-
Got up early in the morning to enjoy the album on my best headphones while I can't be disturbed. Really good first impression.
UA was never my cup of tea which was clear since the singles were released. Not sure why it doesn't stay with me since it doesn't do anything really wrong, just doesn't lift either.
Paralyzed is a very solid nice song. Like the verse and it has a perfect length really. Just when I had enough of all the good it can offer it's done. Perfect.
Fall Into The Light has been a favorite ever since it's release. Still love it. But today I just wanted it to end so I could hear all the new material.
Barstool Warrior was a immediate hit for me. Had to re-listen to it the first thing when the album was over to just hear it again. That piano break down and solo is amazing! James is doing really good on that one as well.
Room 137 is fun and strange. Will never be favorite of mine I think but it's a nice change and just quite fun listen.
S2R needs more listens. It's interesting but no immediate hook except the awesome ending riffing. Sounds a bit like something from a James solo album.
At Wit's End needs a lot of re-listens. Really like it so far. A journey with great touching subject.
Out of Reach is quite awesome to be honest. Perfectly placed in the album and love the cheesy heartful sound. James does amazing job at the vocals!
Pale Dot Blue. Haha shit. This one is crazy as hell. I LOVE the crazy intro. This is a track that I simply can't place my head around yet when it comes to the structure. Or is there even a structure? Haha I am laughing just by listening to it. LOVE IT!
Viper King is a bonus track. Or something haha. I quite like it but nothing that stands out too much either. The intro is pretty nice actually.
Love that DT went full fun and crazy on this one. So many insane riffs, sections, chaos, hooks etc. I have really fun time listening to it and think this one will stand the test of time well.
Edit: Forgot to say how good the album sounds! James sometimes is hard to hear but other than that it sounds awesome. Mangini has never sounded this good (mix and playing). All instruments come together really well and JP's guitar tone :hefdaddy
-
I would say this is probably the best album of the Mangini era. Barstool Warrior is my current favorite.
One thing I don't think I'm overly fond of, is Mangini's constant following one the rhythm is guitar and/or keyboard. Something about it almost takes away from the songs at times. However, that's a small gripe.
-
Wow, just wow...
Now I can't stop reading this in Owen Wilson's voice.
-
One thing I don't think I'm overly fond of, is Mangini's constant following one the rhythm is guitar and/or keyboard. Something about it almost takes away from the songs at times. However, that's a small gripe.
But what if they are the ones following Mangini? :p
I have a feeling that that's the case in the riffy section of PBD. And they almost confirmed that that's the case in Paralyzed.
-
So, it's just 9 in the morning on release day, and everyone has already heard the album but me? :lol
I have lunch break at 13, then it's off to the store to buy it! :metal of course I won't listen to it until this evening but still holding this baby in my hands will feel good!
-
I like this album. I haven't fallen in love with it (at least not yet), but I do find this an enjoyable album.
-
Wow, just wow...
Now I can't stop reading this in Owen Wilson's voice.
Hahaha was kind of purposeful, dream theater meme edition is so strong !
It's the same way that "what have been seen", we'll hear forever this wow
-
I listened to it this morning on my way to work because I could not wait anymore.
It is a great album. I really don't care much for the singles (Paralyzed may be the best one, but still very "ok-ish") but oh my god, the rest of the album. Absolutely fantastic.
Current favourites Room 137, S2N (that JM riff!!!) and... Viper King. (Seriously, I almost jumped out of the chair when Viper King started :rollin, I really was not expecting that at all. Incredibly fun song). I guess that At Wit's End and PBD will need a little bit more time to sink in. Barstool Warrior has great moments but I'm not in love with it yet.
I'm incredibly happy with this album. I will do my ranking too, which right now should be:
SFAM
I&W
6 Degrees
ToT
Awake
FII
D/T
ADTOE
8V
SC
BCSL
DT12
WDADU
(I really cannot place TA, I really like it, but it is so different that a comparison isn't fair)
-
6/10
A step up from The Astonishing and the self-titled which were both 100% forgettable for me. Has a few positive moments like Barstool Warrior (despite its name) and At Wit's End. Has some songs that feel like b-side DT but overall feels like a more collaborative effort than their last few albums. Not quite as good as ADTOE out of the Mangini albums (i'd say that is 7/10).
Probably won't revisit the album but wasn't as hard to get through as the last two.
-
I'm in the solo of Viper King at the end of my first spin through. (I have the day off and this listen is my first business of the day)
I'm absolutely DELIGHTED by this record. So much energy and togetherness. And it sounds great. Massive rush of smiles to the face. Hit all the important spots for me. I've said many times that I want to hear the sound of the band in a room, creating and rocking out together and this is our. I only wish they continue this approach. And take it even further. More room ambience and chatter, etc.
But that's getting off the point. I've been a fan since SFAM but nothing has hit the heights for me since 6DOIT. Until now! Thanks, guys! Amazing job. Welcome back. :metal
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
It does ring a bell for me as well, but I can't point my finger on it. What is certain is that it's one of James' neatest moments on the album (vocal hooks in this song are just great overall).
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
Yeah, I read that too. Awesome
-
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
I don't have a regular version to compare to. (Well, Spotify streaming, but that sounds shit regardless.)
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
Yes. Compare this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159075 (320k mp3 and CD data) to this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159292 (Hires version)
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
Yes. Compare this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159075 (320k mp3 and CD data) to this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159292 (Hires version)
Could you elaborate on what those number mean? Is a lower number an index of greater or smaller dynamic range?
-
Lower number = less dynamics, lower range
Higher number = more dynamics, higher range
(the higher the number, the easier on the ears)
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
I get a "Burning my soul" vibe, the lyric arrangement in the chorus(with an octave on the top) feels similar...Which I think is a good thing.
-
First impressions.
I like it but I don't love it yet.
Notwithstanding the short duration, there's A LOT of stuff in there, will take a long time to digest properly.
Mangini is clearly the MVP, IMHO is best ever drum performance in all DT-History.
So far Paralyzed is my favorite..yeah, it's short and in 4/4 but it's just super cool.
S2N is also cool, and Wit's End has beautiful moments.
Pale Blue Dot is much heavier and sinister-er that I expected...my first listen was really "meeh" but if you set yourself in the right mood is cool.
Overll I lack some melodies...that's what missing to make it a "magic" album.
I would rate it in the middle, above DT12 and all the latest Portnoy stream (ToT-BCSL) but below ADTOE and The Astonishing, and the initial masterpieces.
A lot of interesting guitar stuff to practice though...:)
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
Yes. Compare this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159075 (320k mp3 and CD data) to this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159292 (Hires version)
Interesting. Seems like it's a pretty loud album still (RMS around -8 is on the loud side*). And for some reason Pale Blue Dot is louder! But the peaks have come down. It might buy it and see if there's an audible difference in the sound.
The HDTracks version of DT12 had an RMS of about -12 per track which actually made a difference to the sound of the album, there was more separation, everything breathed a little more.
*Death Magnetic by Metallica has an RMS of -3 on some tracks which is hilarious
-
No words to describe how good this album is....DT has been my fav band since FII and right before Scenes was released and although I love every album as its all DT, I haven't had a wow moment in a long while. This album has certainly changed that but I cant quite put my finger on why. I am usually disappointed when DT releases a new album and then after the next album is released, I go back to it and it becomes a 'classic' to my ears and as every bit as good to me as SFAM.
-
I'm always wary of posting initial thoughts when an album is so fresh but so far it ticks a lot of boxes for me. I think the production is really good, listening to the HDtracks version in FLAC and it's quite a bit better than Spotify.
Songwriting wise this feels a lot like an improved version of what they were going for on DT12, an album I really wanted to like because of how it was set up but not something I go back to very often.
Other people have said it already but the stretch of BW to AWE is phenomenal and the strongest part of the album.
I love how there's almost no rhythm guitar during the solos, really cool to hear what's going on underneath those parts and it highlights the solo part even more. And this is by far JP's best melodic writing since the 90's for me. The album has at times a strong FII feel rather than a I&W feel and I think that's due to some of the more sparse and open arrangements.
Overall I'm super pleased with this album.
-
I got the 96/24 hi-res FLAC download from HDTracks. (Use the "NEWHD15" discount code for 15% off.)
Sounds pretty amazing so far.
Any noticeable difference between the regular and HD versions? I remember DT12 having a huge difference in dynamic range, it was worlds apart from the regular release (for the better).
Yes. Compare this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159075 (320k mp3 and CD data) to this: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159292 (Hires version)
Interesting. Seems like it's a pretty loud album still (RMS around -8 is on the loud side*). And for some reason Pale Blue Dot is louder! But the peaks have come down. It might buy it and see if there's an audible difference in the sound.
The HDTracks version of DT12 had an RMS of about -12 per track which actually made a difference to the sound of the album, there was more separation, everything breathed a little more.
*Death Magnetic by Metallica has an RMS of -3 on some tracks which is hilarious
and what's odd is that the CD is actually more dynamic than the Hires (that was the case with the TA CD master too) as opposed to SC until DT12
-
And this is by far JP's best melodic writing since the 90's for me.
By a mile, yes.
-
I'm very happy with the musical direction of this album. It's like DT for gym! It's a very guitar oriented album, but it is far from being unidimensional like ToT.
Barstool Warrior, S2N and At Wit's End are classic, perfect DT songs. FITL is a strong single. All the shortest songs on the album also work really well.
In fact, I'm enjoying sooo much Room 137 and Viper King. Totally killer rockers with HEEEAVY rhythm guitars!!! Killer Hammond work by Jordan in Viper King also - Derek Sherinian on steroids! For me, Viper King fits perfectly in the diversity of styles of the album. IMO it could be somewhere in the middle of the album, just like Room 137, which also have that very different vibe for a DT song. However, I thought its bonus track's placement looks great ... a way to end a more serious album in a fun way! As the final credits of the Guardians of the Galaxy 2. But, to me, Viper King is a totally relevant part of the album.
Kind of a "forgotten song" by reviews, I do think Out of Reach is a great ballad. That JP solo in Satriani mode is wonderful and that JLB solo albums vibe is also great! By the way, I think the great melodies happens a lot through the album, maybe the greatest TA influence here!
The only "relative flaws" of this album for me are 3: the premature fadeout of At Wit's End (I know what I said above, still...), which is a crime, considering how it is sooo amazing that final solo, remiding me a lot of Neal Schon at his best; there isn't a truly epic on the album. I think it would really fit this album to have a 15-20 minute epic, more in a energetic style all the way through, like in ACoS original arrangement. In agreement with a review published somewhere here, it could actually have been Pale Blue Dot, with further development. Very good song, great instrumental and somewhat innovative for DT, but apparently with a greater potential; Also I think, although UA and Paralyzed are very good songs, they are a bit more on DT' predicable/safe side.
And finally, Mike Mangini destroys the entire album! But I highlight S2N (also the song itself is a monster!). It is interesting to note that there was a little change on song's arrangement - the hi-hat part - between the final version and that one released as song 10 on Youtube. Anyway, if Mike Mangini's drums did not convince anyone on this album... give it up, his style isn't your thing and that's it (and that's OK, of course).
It's truly a great album!
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
-
I got to listen to the first 8 tracks on my way to work. New Dream Theater! For me, it's practically a holiday.
What kills me is that I have to wait ten hours to listen to the last two tracks. Anticipation city! But then, the same thing happened to me when BCASL came out and I had to wait through work to hear TCOT.
The final 12 minutes of D/T await my long journey home.
-
i haven't read any of this thread but has anyone else commented on how barstool warrior sounds like a mike portnoy diss track
Interesting take. I did not get that vibe at all. And based on recent events it seems like there has been a thaw between the DT guys and MP.
-
I can't really remember the exact description, and I haven't heard the album yet, but I remember an interview when JP discussed the song, it's about people's fear to actually strive for happiness.
Do you know that Iron Maiden has a song called "Weekend Warrior", about hooligans? because they're only "warriors" when they're at the stadium... in the same way, the "barstool warrior" is someone who's sitting in a bar and talks "oh if only I could do this and if only could happen that, I would show the world how I am good bla bla bla", rather than actually go outside in the real world and take active steps to achieve his / her dreams.
This is what I can remember - don't quote me on this and it's not the way Petrucci explained, but this is what I got being the general theme of the song.
-
Who is shouting in the beginning of Viper? :lol
Glad they did that btw, they really have had fun with this track.
-
First listens in and a couple of words come to mind:
1. Fun. They sound like they're having it again (or perhaps they never stopped having it?)
2. Hope. It sounds like the album I've been waiting for since.... TOT?
3. Thanks. DT for never giving up and striving to make ever better music.
-
This album GROOVES. Full of groove and melody. Probably my favorite since Six Degrees (1st disc).
-
At Wit's End is the clear highlight for me, and one that stands up against some of the other great DT songs from the first 8 albums. Everything else I could take or leave, to be honest.
Though, I also like the direction of a few of the other songs (Barstool, Out of Reach). Even though I wouldn't consider them "great songs" by any stretch, it's nice to see them departing from the "tough metal guy" thing for a few songs.
It's certainly there most interesting album for me in a long time, though! I can't help but wonder if I'd like it more had they spent another few weeks on it. 1 Days is not very long to write an entire album.
-
Who is shouting in the beginning of Viper? :lol
Glad they did that btw, they really have had fun with this track.
Mangini, I think. Really fun track. Prog Metal Shuffle
-
First listen done on my way to work (spotify).
I really like the album. Besides the singles, my early favorites are Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End. BW has that totally prog rock feel, it could be on WDADU or IW. At Wit's end is just amazing, that solo in the end could go on forever.
Talking about solos, i LOVE JP's guitar work and tone on this album. The best he has sounded in a long time. And he's bringing his A-game,what a player. I love the lead tones...so beautiful.
Love JM and MM in the album as well. JM is such a badass. :metal
I really liked Out of Reach, not a throw away ballad by any means.
Paralyzed is great, i loved it when they released as a single, and it works even better with the rest of the album.
I don't know about the record being better than 6DOIT as some people were saying, but i think it's:
- Easily their best work in the MM era. I mean, BY FAR.
- Probably their best work SINCE TOT. Kind of too early to tell for me.
-
I haven't really been keeping up with news on the album; is the digipak version with the bonus track being sold in stores, or is that a website only thing?
I’d like to know as well.
and by stores I mean actual stores not online stores.
-
Ok, thanks. So, I am clear to discuss it then.
I'll stay vague and just personally reflect on my feelings after listening to it a few times, more because I still want folks to enjoy it themselves the first time and not rely on other peoples' descriptions of each individual songs. Hopefully my comments help pump up the excitement and anticipation for DoT a little more.
I really, really like this album, and its the first one, for me personally, in FOREVER that continues to grow on me the more I listen. The record, for me, clearly has this combination of Images & Words, Awake, SFAM, and Train of Thought going on that hits a sweet spot for me. The songs are shorter, but aren't any less technical. There's a warmth to the recording that really makes it come alive.
A few individual song comments that I'll keep brief: At Wit's End is every bit as good as the hype. The outro solo on it is not overly technical, and repeats the same riff motif, but its SO emotional. It just pegs something musically to match the topic, and I love it. I really enjoyed Barstool Warrior as well. Viper King doesn't really fit stylistically, but it was fun to listen to. It could have fit really well onto FII with the Jon Lord-inspired keyboards.
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I haven't been a big fan of what Dream Theater has done post-Train of Thought. And that wasn't the heaviness. I am not sure how to describe it, but I felt like the influences of the band came to the surface too much, the songs were more focused on technicality and lost some mood and feeling, etc. I know all of that is really personal to each person, and that's how I thought. Even with the switch to Mangini, I wasn't blown away, and I drifted a bit further from DT.
I'm from Long Island. Lived there the first 25 years of my life, and I still consider myself a Long Islander, and I'm proud of the musicians from my home. I became a Dream Theater fan with ACOS and then FII, going backwards to get Awake and Images. I saw them live for the first time (twice) in 1998 (opening for Deep Purple and ELP, and then the 12/29/98 holiday show in NYC). I've seen them 13 or 14 times total, all across the United States. So, what I'm trying to say is, I beat the drum as a fan of theirs through Train of Thought. And even after that, when I really wasn't a fan of what they were doing, I still was a Dream Theater supporter. But I haven't been a FAN in quite some time.
Thankfully, thanks to DoT, I am again a FAN of what the band is doing. It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. I liken it to the same feeling I got with Fates Warning's Theories of Flight a couple years back. It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
My personal favorites (so far):
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
Pale Blue Dot
Thanks Dream Theater. I needed this one. If you're an old school fan that really separated from DT over the last decade or so, give this one a spin. You won't regret it.
Hello! I think this is my first post here, or at least the first in a few years. I have been aware of DT for years, bought 11 of their albums (10 in a box set) around 2015 and have been torn on them ever since. Some stuff amazes me, but for a while the more recent music really came across as you have written.
I am a huge Rush fan and post a lot on a Rush forum. On that forum are many big DT fans, and all of us felt really underwhelmed for this album. The singles too. But we have all been listening too it and I am one of the many that are blown away! This for me is their best album in MANY years, and I liked Black Clouds, ADTOE and the self titled (the less said of The Astonishing the better).
What you have written is exactly how I feel! It has also brought me straight back into the fold. It feels amazing to love and embrace a new DT release! Its the first time since I began to heavily follow the band that a new album has blown me away.
At Wits End, Room 137 and Fall Into The Light are my absolute favourite songs.
I am now revisiting their entire catalogue, and am ecstatic to note I only really dislike three albums. I am close to being a massive fan now! They are growing on me more and more every single time I come back to their music, and Distance Over Time is truly making it easier!
-
I haven't really been keeping up with news on the album; is the digipak version with the bonus track being sold in stores, or is that a website only thing?
I’d like to know as well.
and by stores I mean actual stores not online stores.
Bought the digipak (w/bonus) and the 4-disc special edition artbook in-store today (Australia) so Yes!
-
The vocals have become too much of an obstacle for me to enjoy the album in its entirety, but musically it's a big step up from TA (and maybe even better than DT12). Still only first listen though so I can't say for sure, but I'm sure I like it better than TA at least. Out of Reach on the other hand is a great vocal performance by James, happy to hear he can still manage to complement DT's music if the songs are written well for it. I don't think there has been a track on any of the Mangini albums that I've disliked more than Barstool Warrior, but most of the album is quite good and I'll probably give it a couple more spins!
-
Have only listened to the first three songs (those that were already released) and as I had resisted listening to all but a 30 second clip of each of them before the official release, then they are virtually brand new to me, and so far I can say that it has already almost does the impossible and erased all memory of the "unspeakable album" from my mind.
LOVE IT so far. Will listen to the next three songs tomorrow as I want to savour this record over 3 days rather than in one hour :)
-
I must say I've never heard such a lovely ballad played on a baritone guitar tuned to Bb before :rollin
-
First impressions:
- Love the abundance of Hammond sounds used by Jordan. This direction is right up my street.
- The drums still don't sound good. The toms and snare sound way too processed and flat, lacking clarity. Wish the toms had a more defined tone and ring. It all sounds dead and fake. Listening to those toms at 6:05 in S2N, it's like Turbo Lover. Pale Blue Dot at 1:10 sounds like Blue Monday. Compare that to how MP's kit sounds at the beginning of In the Presence of Enemies.
- The songwriting and melodies seem really interesting and adventurous. There's a lot to be unpacked and absorbed here. I have a feeling I'll be listening to this one a lot.
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
-
After first day listen (I listened many times), my song ranking:
1- At Wit's End
2- Barstool Warrior
3- S2N
4- Out Of Reach
5- Paralyzed
6- Room 137
7- Viper King
8- Fall Into The Light
9- Pale Blue Dot (I didn't expect it to be that bad for my taste)
10- Untehered Angel
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
It's probably from the writing sessions.
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
It's probably from the writing sessions.
Can anyone hear a click track for 5-6 seconds at 5:57 or is it just me?
-
The sound quality on Amazon music is surprisingly good. What an album, so much to digest. Some legitimate riffs and instrumental sections on here.
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
It sounds like there was just a simple recording device somewhere in the room they were playing it in.
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
It's probably from the writing sessions.
Can anyone hear a click track for 5-6 seconds at 5:57 or is it just me?
Isn't that Mangini's cymbals?
On another note, still some bitching about the drum sound? Sheesh
-
A giant step up from TA for me, this is the DT I enjoy. Highlights so far are Fall Into The Light, Barstool Warrior, S2N, and At Wit's End. Viper King is cool as well.
As usual, it's the ballads that doesn't do much for me. Out Of Reach is nice but unremarkable. I feel like I should really like Pale Blue Dot, but it hasn't clicked yet. I'm sure it will, with time.
-
It's lunch break time, off to eat and then buy the album! :metal wish me luck, the other week the same chain store didn't have the new Avantasia but DT are more famous and they actually had DT CDs on the shelf, so I'm confident they will have the new album just like three years ago they had The Astonishing.
-
It took me about 7/8 listens for Pale Blue Dot to click with me. Boy, has it clicked now!
-
The short bit at the end of At Wit's End is live off the floor.
You mean it actually wasn't multi-tracked?
It's probably from the writing sessions.
Can anyone hear a click track for 5-6 seconds at 5:57 or is it just me?
Isn't that Mangini's cymbals?
On another note, still some bitching about the drum sound? Sheesh
No, I think its definitely a click track sound (like tapping two pieces of bamboo together lightly). Hope I'm wrong....was listening to the DVD HD version when I noticed it.
If anyone has a problem with MM after this, the problem is with them. Im pretty sure there is no question of MM's role in the band now....
-
It's lunch break time, off to eat and then buy the album! :metal wish me luck, the other week the same chain store didn't have the new Avantasia but DT are more famous and they actually had DT CDs on the shelf, so I'm confident they will have the new album just like three years ago they had The Astonishing.
Good luck, my "I haven't heard anything from the new album until release" fellow. Be prepared for a great ride!
B.Lee
-
It took me about 7/8 listens for Pale Blue Dot to click with me. Boy, has it clicked now!
I hope it will for me, because as of now, it hasn't clicked at all. The instrumental passage is out of this world and very Metropolis-like. Yet, the song fails where Metrpolis succeeds : the change in mood. PBD is too samey for me - I have listened to it 3 times. Will see what happens with more listens.
All in all, I picture myself listening to the album A LOT.
B.Lee
-
The problem with Pale Blue Dot is that it did not end gloriously like the FITL - AWE run of songs.
-
I blasted Barstool Warrior > Out of Reach on my way to work this morning. Will finish the album off later on the way home and then start over. I've really enjoyed what I've heard. The production quality on this thing is off the charts.
-
Anybody here already heard the instrumental versions? I hope the instrumental version of AWE don’t have that fadeout.
-
The fadeout for me serves a purpose the way Take The Time's does. It gives an open ending that gives a lot of leeway on how this would play out in a live setting.
-
I guess Pale Blue Dot ends up bottom at song ranking for the most despite the hype about it before the release.
-
Hearing at the first time, Pale Blue Dot also left me quite unimpressed lol
The song has grown on me, though.
-
I guess Pale Blue Dot ends up bottom at song ranking for the most despite the hype about it before the release.
I was also surprised after reading all the hype for the tune, to not really like it all that much. I also don't think I get how the subject matter relates to the tune. I get a very ITPOE vibe from the tune, not a "look at how small and insignificant Earth is when seen from far away".
-
After my first spin, what a fun album, I'm really digging it, yeah, way to go DT :metal
-
I was really looking forward to Pale blue dot, but after a few listens, I don't really like it. Oh well
But to the album itself, I've had two full listens at this point. I definitely like it better than TA, but I don't love DoT. Its a decent album, but not something I feel is incredible.
Still really like Fall into the Light and paralyzed
At wits end is great and I like S2N as well
Viper King is very cool, very catchy and a lot of fun. I can see myself listening to this song for years to come.
-
Rumbo, have you read Pale Blue Dot? Here is an excerpt:
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."
Is that not what the song is about?
-
I guess Pale Blue Dot ends up bottom at song ranking for the most despite the hype about it before the release.
I was also surprised after reading all the hype for the tune, to not really like it all that much. I also don't think I get how the subject matter relates to the tune. I get a very ITPOE vibe from the tune, not a "look at how small and insignificant Earth is when seen from far away".
Well, the vibe I got is "drifting in the space inside a damaged spaceship under attack from the Empire Forces"
I also was expecting something more..."epic".
PBD is mainly crazy and sinister.
Not bad, but not outstanding.
-
It's lunch break time, off to eat and then buy the album! :metal wish me luck, the other week the same chain store didn't have the new Avantasia but DT are more famous and they actually had DT CDs on the shelf, so I'm confident they will have the new album just like three years ago they had The Astonishing.
Good luck, my "I haven't heard anything from the new album until release" fellow. Be prepared for a great ride!
Thanks! and, mission accomplished, whoohoooo!!! :metal
I enter the store, go to the CD section, see the old DT albums and go FFFFFFUUUUUUUU, then I check out the "NEWS" zone.... and there it is! only one copy! needless to say, they no longer have any copies left ;D
This evening I have a friday night date with this! :yarr
-
My first listen through is complete.
This album already has a spot higher than ADToE, DT and TA in my list of albums I prefer, not that I dislike those... it's just, you know...
DoT feels organic, creative and more collaborative than the last 3 releases. Even the tracks that didn't initially grab me on this first listen still felt different than what I've listened to over the last few years, like this really IS a new Dream Theater album rather than variations of the same progressions, formula and structure which has been my only way to describe the way the last few albums have made me feel.
I know some people are still mentioning MM's drum sound, but you know what? I think MM is playing and sounding SO much more creative and involved on this album, as if he's finally been plugged into the emotive feel of the band instead of just playing the role of the drum machine. That has been my biggest gripe since post MP, that the drums were no longer part of the emotion of the songs and felt restrained. This album doesn't feel that way anymore and I couldn't be happier. MM finally sounds "free" to me.
There's a lot to unpack here, and unlike how I've felt after first listens of the last 3 or 4 albums, I don't have that "I'm sure it will grow on me 'cause it's Dream Theater and that's just how you have to do it.." feeling. I like it already. It's like some rut has finally been broken.
Cheers.
-
PBD is fantastic! Just needs a couple of spins and was a very hyped. That is always hard since you try to understand what it was and then maybe it ended up being different.
Remember when Pain of Salvation - In The Passing Day of Light came the reviews talked about the 15 min song and said fantastic etc. I ofc expected a strong heavy metal prog piece and then it was .... SLOW?! Didn't like it at all after first spin. But after listening a couple of time my mind accepted what it was and I began to fully appreciate it for what it was.
Personally I have longed soooooo long for a song like PBD. It's DT going full mad house crazy and it's just insane. Chaos like no other band can do it.
-
The weakest aspect of the album for me are the vocals, which often don't add much to the song.
To me, the thing that keeps this album good instead of great is the vocals. And I don't mean James.
So much is made of the vibe of their barn studio. You can hear the fun and comradery through the music. So why were the vocals recorded in Canada?
To me, the vocals are so far separated from the rest of the music. They are lower in the mix than they should be. James is kind of what sets DT apart from the rest of the genre in terms of melody and emotion. The way the vocals were recorded and mixed totally impeded this connection.
Which is a shame because I LOVE some of the things they did vocally. An example would be the psychedelic part in Room 137. I think that's great.
-
I get The Glass Prison feeling from Pale Blue Dot with some forced vocal melodies and disjointed passages. It's simplier than TGP and it lacks some proper guitar solo to end it.
-
The weakest aspect of the album for me are the vocals, which often don't add much to the song.
To me, the thing that keeps this album good instead of great is the vocals. And I don't mean James.
So much is made of the vibe of their barn studio. You can hear the fun and comradery through the music. So why were the vocals recorded in Canada?
To me, the vocals are so far separated from the rest of the music. They are lower in the mix than they should be. James is kind of what sets DT apart from the rest of the genre in terms of melody and emotion. They way the vocals were recorded and mixed totally impeded this connection.
Which is a shame because I LOVE some of the things they did vocally. An example would be the psychedelic part in Room 137. I think that's great.
100% agree.
Fantastic album for all the instruments but the vocals are clearly one level below, and keep the album from flying to "magic" status.
I think they only song where they really work it's Paralyzed.
It's a pity, and I agree that probably the recording process had an impact on this.
Anyway, great album.
-
Just unpacked the Deluxe Collector's Box Set. Looks awesome!
Hope the new music gets me back into DT (being a fan since I & W came out).
-
Ok, thanks. So, I am clear to discuss it then.
I'll stay vague and just personally reflect on my feelings after listening to it a few times, more because I still want folks to enjoy it themselves the first time and not rely on other peoples' descriptions of each individual songs. Hopefully my comments help pump up the excitement and anticipation for DoT a little more.
I really, really like this album, and its the first one, for me personally, in FOREVER that continues to grow on me the more I listen. The record, for me, clearly has this combination of Images & Words, Awake, SFAM, and Train of Thought going on that hits a sweet spot for me. The songs are shorter, but aren't any less technical. There's a warmth to the recording that really makes it come alive.
A few individual song comments that I'll keep brief: At Wit's End is every bit as good as the hype. The outro solo on it is not overly technical, and repeats the same riff motif, but its SO emotional. It just pegs something musically to match the topic, and I love it. I really enjoyed Barstool Warrior as well. Viper King doesn't really fit stylistically, but it was fun to listen to. It could have fit really well onto FII with the Jon Lord-inspired keyboards.
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I haven't been a big fan of what Dream Theater has done post-Train of Thought. And that wasn't the heaviness. I am not sure how to describe it, but I felt like the influences of the band came to the surface too much, the songs were more focused on technicality and lost some mood and feeling, etc. I know all of that is really personal to each person, and that's how I thought. Even with the switch to Mangini, I wasn't blown away, and I drifted a bit further from DT.
I'm from Long Island. Lived there the first 25 years of my life, and I still consider myself a Long Islander, and I'm proud of the musicians from my home. I became a Dream Theater fan with ACOS and then FII, going backwards to get Awake and Images. I saw them live for the first time (twice) in 1998 (opening for Deep Purple and ELP, and then the 12/29/98 holiday show in NYC). I've seen them 13 or 14 times total, all across the United States. So, what I'm trying to say is, I beat the drum as a fan of theirs through Train of Thought. And even after that, when I really wasn't a fan of what they were doing, I still was a Dream Theater supporter. But I haven't been a FAN in quite some time.
Thankfully, thanks to DoT, I am again a FAN of what the band is doing. It brilliantly captures Dream Theater's past in a way that makes it completely modern, without sacrificing both technicality and melody. I liken it to the same feeling I got with Fates Warning's Theories of Flight a couple years back. It expertly weaves all eras of the band's sound and presents it in a way that sounds fresh, exciting and inspiring.
My personal favorites (so far):
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
Pale Blue Dot
Thanks Dream Theater. I needed this one. If you're an old school fan that really separated from DT over the last decade or so, give this one a spin. You won't regret it.
This really echoes my feelings on the album. I've only listened to it full through twice and have to spend a lot of time with it, but that first listen made me feel like I was really listening to a classic Dream Theater album again. The last time I felt like that was when Train of Thought came out. Ever since then, each disc has a few songs I like and I have trouble connecting to or even enjoying the rest - it always comes across like Dream Theater paint by numbers.
Absolutely loving this disc!
-
Just unpacked the Deluxe Collector's Box Set. Looks awesome!
Hope the new music gets me back into DT (being a fan since I & W came out).
Even the standard digipack version is cool. A vast improvement over the self titled (booklet glued to the case, gaaaah!) and The Astonishing (booklet glued, lyrics in very standard Arial font and white writing on a white background on the back cover. Ugh)
-
Rumbo, have you read Pale Blue Dot? Here is an excerpt:
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."
Is that not what the song is about?
I can only speak for myself and my personal interpretation of Sagan's speech here. While Carl indeed uses a lot of words like destroyer, blood, war etc, the point of the speech is to show the exact opposite it, the futility of our local feuds. There is a vibe of serenity, standing above those earthly things, and when I heard about the topic of the song I expected that vibe to be reflected in the music. Again, just my personal opinion, but I mostly get the ITPOE war-like vibe from the song. That doesn't make it bad or anything, I was just looking forward for a DT "space epic".
-
Welp. Back from a several-year absence. As someone who haaaaaated DT12 and the Astonishing, this is a pleasant surprise. Mostly. I dig all of Petrucci's solos. I appreciate the audible bass even if it sounds like Myung has fallen into a now-tired "Darkglass pedal metal bass" tone, and I'm always a fan of Rudess on piano.
There are still a bunch of issues. There are only a handful of really catchy choruses, still quite a few tracks that are absolute duds (which I was hoping wouldn't be the case since they made this album shorter), and the vocal melodies on the whole are really lackluster. I imagine its because James needs to hit these live, so he writes stuff that's easier to hit with his current range. Speaking of James, wtf is with all the reverb on his voice? I'm not sure it helps. It buries his voice rather than making it feel bigger (which I imagine was the original intent). Unfortunately I think only Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End are the only tracks that can compete with the best of their pre-DT12 material.
All that being said, it is so much better than DT12 and the Astonishing. 6/10.
Track ranking:
1. Barstool Warrior - Why did they have to give the best song on the album the dumbest name. Lot of Fish-era Marillion vibes on this one but it all works really well. Kind of reminds me of "A New Beginning" in that way, but with better lyrics.
2. At Wit's End - Oh hey DT remembered how to write good long songs.
3. Untethered Angel - Surprisingly good single and one of the better choruses
4. S2N - Lots of great ideas here (it starts off as a real banger except for that stupid robot voice). Could do without the keyboard solo at the end.
5. Out of Reach - Start off with Wither vibes on this one. Pretty good ballad.
6. Fall Into the Light - Big fan of Petrucci's solo but the first half is just okay.
7. Paralyzed - The now-traditional heavy DT single. Its not bad, its not great.
8. Pale Blue Dot - Oh crap DT forgot how to write good long songs. Okay in fairness it starts off well and then just gets bland. I wonder if Jordan has hidden the existence of envelope filter pedals from JM, because if JM ever finds out about them, Jordan's snarling pig patch is basically obsolete.
9. Viper King - I will hand it to DT, "Deep Purple soundalike novelty song" was not something I would ever expect from them. Unfortunately, James has trouble consistently singing in his upper register even in the studio.
10. Room 137 - Boring and bland.
-
Welp. Back from a several-year absence. As someone who haaaaaated DT12 and the Astonishing, this is a pleasant surprise. Mostly. I dig all of Petrucci's solos. I appreciate the audible bass even if it sounds like Myung has fallen into a now-tired "Darkglass pedal metal bass" tone, and I'm always a fan of Rudess on piano.
There are still a bunch of issues. There are only a handful of really catchy choruses, still quite a few tracks that are absolute duds (which I was hoping wouldn't be the case since they made this album shorter), and the vocal melodies on the whole are really lackluster. I imagine its because James needs to hit these live, so he writes stuff that's easier to hit with his current range. Speaking of James, wtf is with all the reverb on his voice? I'm not sure it helps. It buries his voice rather than making it feel bigger (which I imagine was the original intent). Unfortunately I think only Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End are the only tracks that can compete with the best of their pre-DT12 material.
All that being said, it is so much better than DT12 and the Astonishing. 6/10.
Track ranking:
1. Barstool Warrior - Why did they have to give the best song on the album the dumbest name. Lot of Fish-era Marillion vibes on this one but it all works really well. Kind of reminds me of "A New Beginning" in that way, but with better lyrics.
2. At Wit's End - Oh hey DT remembered how to write good long songs.
3. Untethered Angel - Surprisingly good single and one of the better choruses
4. S2N - Lots of great ideas here (it starts off as a real banger except for that stupid robot voice). Could do without the keyboard solo at the end.
5. Out of Reach - Start off with Wither vibes on this one. Pretty good ballad.
6. Fall Into the Light - Big fan of Petrucci's solo but the first half is just okay.
7. Paralyzed - The now-traditional heavy DT single. Its not bad, its not great.
8. Pale Blue Dot - Oh crap DT forgot how to write good long songs. Okay in fairness it starts off well and then just gets bland. I wonder if Jordan has hidden the existence of envelope filter pedals from JM, because if JM ever finds out about them, Jordan's snarling pig patch is basically obsolete.
9. Viper King - I will hand it to DT, "Deep Purple soundalike novelty song" was not something I would ever expect from them. Unfortunately, James has trouble consistently singing in his upper register even in the studio.
10. Room 137 - Boring and bland.
I don't agree with the ranking but otherwise this is pretty similar to my thoughts. For me the keepers are At Wit's End, Out of Reach, and Barstool, and everything else I could take or leave. And really just At Wit's End and Barstool.
I will say it's the best sounding DT album in awhile, James' vocal production aside (which I just find odd, to say the last).
-
Yeah, props to the mixing and production. It does sound great.
-
Hnnnng~ Just hit that groove at the end of S2n for the second time.
I think I need a cigarette.
-
They should play as much as is possible from the album on the tour (excluding Viper King maybe) but I'd love to hear PBD, Barstool and AWE. S2N as well probably.
-
I already knew the first three songs, and listened to tracks 4 and 5 on the way to work; they sounded good.
And now I need to hold out on the others till I go out for lunch and can hear them for the first time in my car, since I don't want the initial listen of those songs to be at work with the ear buds in while being distracted with work and other things going on here in the office.
-
Btw, anyone noticed yet in the credits the mention of "Our court jester, Yorick - alas, we knew him well"? :lol
Nice nod to the Hamlet vibe of the cover!
-
They should play as much as is possible from the album on the tour (excluding Viper King maybe) but I'd love to hear PBD, Barstool and AWE. S2N as well probably.
Just play the whole D/T album as first set and SFAM as second set.
-
About 2:06-2:34 in At Wit's End sounds very WDADU inspired in the vocal melodies and I dig it. So many little sections and parts on this album where I can hear little just glimpses of older albums. Plus the song is just killer.
-
About 2:06-2:34 in At Wit's End sounds very WDADU inspired in the vocal melodies and I dig it.
Love those vocal melodies!
-
At Wit's End is simply amazing. That opening is such a monster.
My favorite part comes at 5:20-5:30. It's the chunky part between the mellow part and then James starting to sing again.
-
At Wit's End is simply amazing. That opening is such a monster.
My favorite part comes at 5:20-5:30. It's the chunky part between the mellow part and then James starting to sing again.
Then MM does his off-beat hi-hats. :lol
-
Very interesting. Not the first time DT have referred to Hamlet in their work...
Very very good album, with definite potential for it to grow further on me. Favourite of the non-singles so far (with the caveat that this may change as I digest the album further) is definitely Barstool Warrior. Pale Blue Dot is such a thrill-ride. I'm also appreciating Fall Into the Light a bit more too.
-
Gotta say, after being underwhelmed/disappointed by Pale Blue Dot, it has grown on me considerably with more listens. I like how sinister it sounds, and James sounds great with those vocal melodies!
-
For me Fall Into The Light fails to amaze me because of the vocal melodies. Everything else is just perfect but vocals are absent to complete the puzzle.
-
They should play as much as is possible from the album on the tour (excluding Viper King maybe) but I'd love to hear PBD, Barstool and AWE. S2N as well probably.
Just play the whole D/T album as first set and SFAM as second set.
I wouldn't be upset if they did this
-
For me, there's a lot of stuff I like in the album, but it's somehow missing the wow-factor. I still have some digesting to do, though. I will probably rank it somewhere in the middle of all the albums.
Early favorites, not counting the singles, seem to be Barstool Warrior, Room 137 and At Wit's End
However the overall sound of the album is a little too echoey for my taste. Bummer.
-
Was able to get one listen in....gotta say....I really dig it. I like the 'shorter' more concise approach they took with these songs. Trimmed the fat and just made every moment count.
I can't even begin to pick a 'favorite' yet but the two standouts to me first listen were Pale Blue Dot and At Wits End.
-
Gotta say, after being underwhelmed/disappointed by Pale Blue Dot, it has grown on me considerably with more listens. I like how sinister it sounds, and James sounds great with those vocal melodies!
Agreed, musically, it’s very much feeling like Rush’s Cygnus X-1 on high amounts of caffeine! Loving the atmosphere of it.
-
My favorites after listening through again are At Wit's End, S2N, Pale Blue Dot (Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot Speech has been my favorite speech/monologue for years), Barstool Warrior, and Room 137. I still really love Fall Into the Light too. I really, really love Mangini's work on this album. Some of those fills are just impossible. But also his ride work, high hat work, and cymbal work in general. And some of that FII type stuff they sprinkle in is so groovy. Drum sound is great too. I'm really happy Mangini is getting some credit.
-
I love the late 70's Rush influence I hear.
I love JP's solos. It's not 1000 notes per second all the time.
Like at 5:55 of AWE when he comes out of nowhere with this amazing sounding solo.
-
Like at 5:55 of AWE when he comes out of nowhere with this amazing sounding solo.
The amazing thing is that it's the same 4 measures repeated over and over and over, sometimes in different octaves, yet it never gets boring. I love it
-
So the way I see it, after the MP fiasco, the guys needed ADTOE to find their sound again. Then DT self-titled to cut away the excessive playing that became a crutch. Then TA to refocus on writing songs.
And now we have D/T.
-
I love the late 70's Rush influence I hear.
I love JP's solos. It's not 1000 notes per second all the time.
Like at 5:55 of AWE when he comes out of nowhere with this amazing sounding solo.
ALL of this. For me personally, it is the most soulful JP has sounded in a very long time. That solo isn't even all that complicated. But the notes resonate with the vibe of the song...ala something harkening back to the I&W-FII days.
-
Listening now, very first impressions:
Unthered Angel - Clean intro.... and then off we go! I like the initial riff, but the song "quiets down" for the verses, I'm not so sure it will be a good opener. Those effects on James' voice though.... not convinced. Chorus is not bad, it will need more listening!
Paralyzed - I expected a heavy shredfest with such a short song but I was pleasantly suprised by how melodic it sounds! the chorus being just "I am paralyzed" is a bit underwhelming, but the pre-chorus is great. Should have been more "full" like at the end.
Fall into the Light - Whoah, nice Metallica-ish riff at the beginning! Another song melodic and not heavy for the sake of being heavy. Anyway - should I get worried at the lack of memorable choruses so far? awesome melodic breakdown in the middle however!
-
I love the late 70's Rush influence I hear.
I love JP's solos. It's not 1000 notes per second all the time.
Like at 5:55 of AWE when he comes out of nowhere with this amazing sounding solo.
ALL of this. For me personally, it is the most soulful JP has sounded in a very long time. That solo isn't even all that complicated. But the notes resonate with the vibe of the song...ala something harkening back to the I&W-FII days.
It's crazy I honestly feel like I'm listening to late 90s JP during that solo. That's an all time great.
-
I've had four solid listens now and honestly the only thing I know for sure is that Room 137 is my 'least' favorite track....but I still dig it.
What I like most about this album is (I'm no audiophile...just a normal music listener) that this 'sounds' like the best mixed album DT has had in some time. At any given moment you can hone in and listen to any one of the band members specifically.
I think that JP, MM and JMX are just showing off in this album....they're spot on and not over the top in any instance. JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I almost wish they'd just play this whole album and Scenes on the Tour
-
Looks like we're back :biggrin: D/T is so awesome it overloaded this forum :lol
I've been trying to listen to bits and pieces here at work and it's driving me nuts. The songs are all so awesome just like you guys have said. I'll need at least a couple of good dedicated listens on headphones once I get home.
-
Um... let's just put it this way - I'm glad I have tickets for all three Texas shows. This is gonna sound SO sick live!
That, and I officially cannot word. WOW. :hefdaddy
-
Looks like we're back :biggrin: D/T is so awesome it overloaded this forum :lol
No kidding. Even the Youtube comments are positive.
-
There's a swagger to this record that I haven't heard from DT before. Even on the darker, heavier stuff, there's an energy and sense of fun that is honestly very refreshing. You can tell they had a great time with the process of creating this music. This is exactly the kind of record I wanted them to make after The Astonishing. Maybe their best since 6 Degrees?
-
Been trying to post for hours!
Listened to the record several times today, really, really good DT record. This might end up being my favorite of the MM era.
-
Yea, there's a lot to like about this album, from the production to the heaviness to the DT doing what DT does best. At Wits End really has got me right now, definitely song of the year so far for me. S2N is fabulous too. I also really enjoy Viper King, that's fun as fuck.
-
I must say I agree with some of the sentiment I've read on Pale Blue Dot. While the song starts strong, I found it too short, and while the instrumental section is pretty cool, the way that the song resolves back to the "God Creators, Dream Destroyers" section (chorus?) in the finale just strikes as a really premature close to something that could have really gone somewhere special.
I wanted more from the song, mostly due to its inspiring source material. The lyrics paraphrase one of the central questions of Sagan's talk. But not only does the song fail to capture the meaning of the full talk, it moreover fails to add any perspective of its own. Instead, it just kind of skims the surface, "how fragile and transient this all is". To have that be the grand conclusion of the song just strikes me as cheap at its best, nihilistic and unintelligent at its worst.
DT have never had a problem treating far more mundane lyric topics with grandiose, epic conclusions - see Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany. Even Barstool Warrior provides its protagonist with an epiphany that isn't fully deserved. That's why it's all the more baffling to me that they came up so short here.
-
Hi. I think we're back after that site crash.
I'm currently listening to the album.
Untethered Angel - Really good song, but most of them will probably go above it in the end.
Paralyzed - Particularly appreciating the middle section now I own the album.
Fall Into the Light - Again, appreciation has grown further as I'm listening now.
Barstool Warrior - Oh this hits all the right spots. Wonderful chorus and the piano in the middle section...wow. Also the ending sort-of brought to mind The Bigger Picture.
Room 137 - OOF! This hits you hard right from the off with some heavy riffage!
S2N - One of those soaring DT choruses that sounds like it will be a classic.
At Wit's End - I must admit, this hasn't grabbed me as instantly as I thought it would judging by posts I read prior to hearing it. It's still a very good song, but it's no BAI. It's also kinda spoilt a little bit by what happens in the last minute, imo. I have questions about it.
Out of Reach - DT ballad. Nice enough.
Pale Blue Dot - Oh yes! Here we go! I'm glad they've allowed themselves one proggy freakout on this album, even within its overall feel of trimming the fat.
Viper King - This is fun! Totally get the Deep Purple vibes.
-
This album already has a spot higher than ADToE, DT and TA in my list of albums I prefer, not that I dislike those... it's just, you know...
DoT feels organic, creative and more collaborative than the last 3 releases. Even the tracks that didn't initially grab me on this first listen still felt different than what I've listened to over the last few years, like this really IS a new Dream Theater album rather than variations of the same progressions, formula and structure which has been my only way to describe the way the last few albums have made me feel.
I agree with your initial reactions for the most part. Bolded words are how I felt about the first 2 post-MP albums. Some gems here and there in ADTOE/DT12 but I'm old school and I want to listen to albums from start to finish, not popcorn style through their catalog. This new album is starting off just like the days of old where I know I like what I hear but it will take time to digest.
My only gripe (though is being heralded as a plus these days... short attention spans?) is the lack of a long masterpiece. I get that it is refreshing to have concise songs that still hit all the elements that make a DT song a DT song but this album is SHORT. They had room to put a 15+ minute epic... :)
I'm also saddened that so many disliked TA. It's one of my absolutely favorites because it hits all the marks for me personally when taken as an album. Not that I've read every post but I've yet to read one good thing said about TA since the release of D/T.
-
Here my thoughts so far:
- This album is a 10/10.
- A second choice for the album name would have been "Quality Over Quantity"! Seriously though, despite of the shorter duration, this album is packed full of goodness. It's very balanced, doesn't leave me wanting more but makes me start it over.
- This album is nothing like the self titled, it's the antithesis of the self titled. In everything, from musical direction all the way to lyrical themes. It was a very misleading comparison that people were making before it came out.
- The chocolate cake is delicious here, it was present but tasteless on the self titled IMO. The guitar sound is stellar and I dare say exceptional, clean and distorted.
- The mellow section that starts at 3:19 of Fall Into The Light got me a little choked up, I think it's kinda wasted on this song because the track is average up until the point it kicks in. A factor could be that I don't like the Hetfield riffing when someone else does it so that turned me off from the start of the song but I think it will grow on me.
- I love Pale Blue Dot. The other day someone on the other thread said that it sounds like an unfinished epic, I completely disagree, it sounds very well rounded, the ending may seem abrupt at first but on subsequent listens I thought it worked perfect.
Least Favorite track: Out of Reach, haven't clicked yet.
Favorite Track: Currently a tie between all the other tracks, this album is awesome.
-
I'm also saddened that so many disliked TA. It's one of my absolutely favorites because it hits all the marks for me personally when taken as an album. Not that I've read every post but I've yet to read one good thing said about TA since the release of D/T.
I am a big fan of The Astonishing, as are many others here. I think it is their best album of the last 17 years (since 6DOIT basically).
-
I'm also saddened that so many disliked TA. It's one of my absolutely favorites because it hits all the marks for me personally when taken as an album. Not that I've read every post but I've yet to read one good thing said about TA since the release of D/T.
I am a big fan of The Astonishing, as are many others here. I think it is their best album of the last 17 years (since 6DOIT basically).
My largest 'gripe' with TA is that I feel like I can't just listen to a song from it. It's all or nothing for me. But, when I do get the chance to listen to it....it's such a great album choc full of insane music moments.....and MM outright and utterly KILLS it on that album.
-
Continuing the first experience, more first hand impressions:
Barstool Warrior - WOW!!! THAT INTRO!!! Amazing, proggy, intense, melodic, Images-and-Wordesque... the first 90 seconds are pure bliss!!! but again, where are the memorable choruses? anyway, another great section with the "promises made, crying in vain" part.
Room 137 - Beautiful People from Marilyn Manson? haha! quite groovy, but once again, where is a proper chorus?
S2N - Yay, bass intro! Awake-sque chorus, this one is quite groovy and heavy! Petrucci really shreds on the solo and the bass is prominent, but it's not gratuitous wanking, it fits the song. They really managed this time around to incorporate all the "showing off" into the proper form of a song rather than being all over the place with it.
-
That outro solo/melody in At Wit's End is the highlight of the album for me (before the reprise comes in). Very closely followed by the mellow section in Fall Into The Light.
-
A couple more detailed thoughts -
Excluding the singles, that I've posted about before:
Barstool Warrior - instant favorite, love the old school prog vibes here. The first time the chorus hits makes me smile. Some amazing melodic guitar work in this one.
Room 137 - a little different for DT, I like it, the vocal effects take a little getting used to, killer drumming.
S2N - love this song, the bass groove starting out, the playing throughout, and the heavy breakdown riff at the end. Awesome.
At Wit's End - modern classic DT, emotional, and gripping. James' vocals are stellar on this one, and again really good melodic guitar work. Cool idea for the ending too.
Out of Reach - pretty straight forward but a welcome breather.
Pale Blue Dot - I need more listens, there are parts I like but the whole thing hasn't come into focus yet, I think it needs more time.
Viper King - Awesome JR organ work, great vibe. I wish the vocals were sung in a lower register, James sounds a little strained, but fun tune.
I think they nailed the vibe of collaboration that they kept talking about throughout this process, that comes through in the music. Impressive performances from all the guys, considering how deep they are in their career's to come out with a record this strong is pretty impressive.
-
Yeah, here I thought they tossed A New Beginning-style bucket of ice over my musical boner, only for the song to come back just give me a happy ending :D
-
I think they nailed the vibe of collaboration that they kept talking about throughout this process, that comes through in the music. Impressive performances from all the guys, considering how deep they are in their career's to come out with a record this strong is pretty impressive.
:iagree:
-
Yeah, here I thought they tossed A New Beginning-style bucket of ice over my musical boner, only for the song to come back just give me a happy ending :D
:lol Yeah it was an interesting idea for sure. Hopefully they play that song live and let JP keep building the solo at the end longer, similar to when they played ANB live.
-
Did the album break the forum?
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
-
Continuing the first experience, more first hand impressions:
Barstool Warrior - where are the memorable choruses?
In my opinion, the BW chorus is the best on the album. I particularly like how the drums make it sound different the second time around
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
I agree...I'm not saying I didn't like what he's doing on the album. I think it's perfect. It's very measured. In fact, they all seem very measured and intentional in their playing. No real 'wasted' time or over playing. Just concise and well thought out.
-
Barstool Warrior - WOW!!! THAT INTRO!!! Amazing, proggy, intense, melodic, Images-and-Wordesque... the first 90 seconds are pure bliss!!! but again, where are the memorable choruses?
Blimey! I think it has an amazing chorus, one of the strongest they've done in quite a few years.
-
My only gripe (though is being heralded as a plus these days... short attention spans?) is the lack of a long masterpiece. I get that it is refreshing to have concise songs that still hit all the elements that make a DT song a DT song but this album is SHORT. They had room to put a 15+ minute epic... :)
I'm also saddened that so many disliked TA. It's one of my absolutely favorites because it hits all the marks for me personally when taken as an album. Not that I've read every post but I've yet to read one good thing said about TA since the release of D/T.
I'm fine with there not being a 15 min long epic, honestly. We just had an entire album that was a 2 hour long epic :lol
It's great to just hear some jams again. Like you said, this popcorn "one or two songs from albums" that it's been hasn't been my preferred way to listen either. I didn't DISLIKE TA... it just doesn't rank very high on my list of go to DT albums.
-
I'll get into a meaty in-depth post when I'm on my laptop.
The short version is; I'm totally floored by how good this album is.
The combo of JM and MM locked in together, coupled with the sound
of their instruments is mind blowing. Add in JP's tone and a stellar
overall production, along with insanely great compositions and
what you get is magnificent ear candy. I never thought I'd feel this
way again about a DT album. There were several occasions when the
hair was standing up on the back of my neck. Goosebumps man.
Kudos to DT.
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
Agree 100%. And it's not just his notes, it's the sounds too. Jordan's at his best when he's not trying to sound like a guitar.
-
Barstool Warrior - WOW!!! THAT INTRO!!! Amazing, proggy, intense, melodic, Images-and-Wordesque... the first 90 seconds are pure bliss!!! but again, where are the memorable choruses? anyway, another great section with the "promises made, crying in vain" part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ5jsCcFW5o&feature=youtu.be
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
Agree 100%. And it's not just his notes, it's the sounds too. Jordan's at his best when he's not trying to sound like a guitar.
The organ tone he uses on a bunch of songs is fantastic IMO, it sounds soooo good with that heavy guitar. JR is like the unsung hero here, he's not as in your phone but his presence isn't unheard. He's in your face when he needs to be but is mostly just elevating the music all around without being the centerpiece.
-
Barstool Warrior - WOW!!! THAT INTRO!!! Amazing, proggy, intense, melodic, Images-and-Wordesque... the first 90 seconds are pure bliss!!! but again, where are the memorable choruses? anyway, another great section with the "promises made, crying in vain" part.
/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ5jsCcFW5o&feature=youtu.be
Yeah, kinda like that :lol
Finishing now my first listening, last batch of songs:
At Wit's End - Didn't expect that heavy and fast intro! then the piano beneath creates a bit of contrast... then the verses start to become more melodic and that chorus is bombastic and haunting! It feels that so much has already happened when we're only 1/3 into the song. And the piano section that leads into the heartfelt outro... nice stuff. Oh, here it comes, the infamous fake ending : D quite weird to have it but hey, at least it's something new.
Out of Reach - Nice ballad! very delicate and sweet, I like the way it gradually builds up, the second bridge is awesome! it's so good it almost outshines the chorus!
Pale Blue Dot - Heavy and menacing, sounds epic and bombastic! Not the mood I was expecting honestly... the chorus is big enough to work as "album closer climax", especially with the solo coming out of it, but I guess this is one of the songs that will require a lot more of listenings!
And Viper King is fun and silly and catchy, the perfect bonus track I guess :D
-
One thing I noticed, all of the guitar solos on the album have no rhythm guitar underneath, interesting production choice which I think works really nicely.
-
My initial rating was
S2N
At Wit's End
Pale Blue Dot
Fall Into The Light
Barstool Warrior
Room 137
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
Out Of Reach
That was after like 4 spins. I am now closer to 20 and I think it is more like
S2N
At Wit's End
Fall Into The Light
Pale Blue Dot
Room 137
Barstool Warrior
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
Out Of Reach
Not much of a change really, and I don't know that S2N is ever not going to be my favorite song from DOT.
My gripes, if I had to find any are with the fade out of AWE, it isn't the fade out that bothers me. Sure the solo could have gone on a bit longer in the fade. But the 10 seconds of silence before the reprise comes back in, kills the flow of the album for me. I also really like the reprise from the writing session, I like the rawness of it, but come on, 10 seconds of silence, that is a lot of nothing.
And I do, if I am being honest, miss the grandeur of a 12-15min song. I get that perhaps it didn't fit in with the theme of writing more concise songs, but I think PBD could have easily been longer.
Oh and it is surprising to see the love for Viper King. I kinda hope they pull it out live.
-
I know it's been said many times already, but I'm so fantastically, pleasantly surprised by this album. I didn't think DT had this kind of release I them, after so many years. Easily some of the strongest tracks of the MM era, and beyond.
The singles didn't do it justice, through I'm starting to enjoy them more in the context of the full album.
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
I agree...I'm not saying I didn't like what he's doing on the album. I think it's perfect. It's very measured. In fact, they all seem very measured and intentional in their playing. No real 'wasted' time or over playing. Just concise and well thought out.
Agree with all of that ;D
-
One interesting thought I just had. I feel like on TA, the stars were James and Jordan. Jordan had his prints all over TA with that upright piano, especially during the softer songs. And love TA or hate it, James sounded phenomenal. His voice sounded beautiful on the ballads, and he had some awesome character voices.
On DoT, I feel like it's the exact inverse. MM, JP, and JM sound absolutely phenomenal. MM is the star, and I feel like he has fully arrived on this album. His kit is mixed so well. JP's tone has never been better, and JM's is highlighted in many parts. His bass sounds great- nice bottom end and awesome tone.
But I've heard much better from James (no hate as he still sounds good for his age), and Jordan is kind of in the background in this album. Neither are bad of course, I just wouldn't consider either to be highlights of the album as they were on TA.
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
Agree 100%. And it's not just his notes, it's the sounds too. Jordan's at his best when he's not trying to sound like a guitar.
Touche
-
My largest 'gripe' with TA is that I feel like I can't just listen to a song from it. It's all or nothing for me. But, when I do get the chance to listen to it....it's such a great album choc full of insane music moments.....and MM outright and utterly KILLS it on that album.
I get this, but I can usually listen to chunks of the album and be good with it. Because who has time to listen to an album that long on a regular basis? :P
-
One interesting thought I just had. I feel like on TA, the stars were James and Jordan. Jordan had his prints all over TA with that upright piano, especially during the softer songs. And love TA or hate it, James sounded phenomenal. His voice sounded beautiful on the ballads, and he had some awesome character voices.
On DoT, I feel like it's the exact inverse. MM, JP, and JM sound absolutely phenomenal. MM is the star, and I feel like he has fully arrived on this album. His kit is mixed so well. JP's tone has never been better, and JM's is highlighted in many parts. His bass sounds great- nice bottom end and awesome tone.
But I've heard much better from James (no hate as he still sounds good for his age), and Jordan is kind of in the background in this album. Neither are bad of course, I just wouldn't consider either to be highlights of the album as they were on TA.
Totally agree on the role reversals here, JP and MM are the starts of the album. The heavy sick riffs and MM amazing drums just shine all over the album where as JLB doesn't sound bad, but he sounds like he's playing it safe here so he can perform it well live. I have no issues with that, but it does come off as JLB not being the star of the album like I thought he was on TA.
-
I'll get into a meaty in-depth post when I'm on my laptop.
The short version is; I'm totally floored by how good this album is.
The combo of JM and MM locked in together, coupled with the sound
of their instruments is mind blowing. Add in JP's tone and a stellar
overall production, along with insanely great compositions and
what you get is magnificent ear candy. I never thought I'd feel this
way again about a DT album. There were several occasions when the
hair was standing up on the back of my neck. Goosebumps man.
Kudos to DT.
Glad you are back emtee with DT. :metal
-
I'm also saddened that so many disliked TA. It's one of my absolutely favorites because it hits all the marks for me personally when taken as an album. Not that I've read every post but I've yet to read one good thing said about TA since the release of D/T.
I am a big fan of The Astonishing, as are many others here. I think it is their best album of the last 17 years (since 6DOIT basically).
My largest 'gripe' with TA is that I feel like I can't just listen to a song from it. It's all or nothing for me. But, when I do get the chance to listen to it....it's such a great album choc full of insane music moments.....and MM outright and utterly KILLS it on that album.
I've never ranked the albums (I probably should) but is definite top 5 for me album-wise. And yes, I mostly listen to albums start to finish so I don't have that problem. :) I literally have every DT album in chronological order in my playlist and I hit play and that's it. I'll hit up some singles sometimes like the more epic songs and some personal faves.
Just finished my 3rd listen of D/T ... it's gets better and better....
-
I like the nod to By-Tor in S2N! :metal
-
I think I'm losing my mind.... God how I needed this.....
THANK YOU .. just thank you...
-
Pleasantly surprised and super pleased with this release. Upon the first listen, it's by far the best MM era release in my opinion.
The record sounds inspired and fresh.
Thank you Dream Theater.
-
I'll +1 on the thank you...
THANK YOU DREAM THEATER :metal :metal
-
Um... let's just put it this way - I'm glad I have tickets for all three Texas shows. This is gonna sound SO sick live!
That, and I officially cannot word. WOW. :hefdaddy
Perhaps the greatest compliment I can pay to this album is that it makes me WANT to go to all three Texas shows, especially in the hopes to see all of the album at various points.
My God, what a tour de force. Most of my feels have been captured in this thread, so i'll just echo that I'm a huge fan of our five dudes holing up for a few weeks to write an album, if it means this is what we'll get!!
-
so i'll just echo that I'm a huge fan of our five dudes holing up for a few weeks to write an album, if it means this is what we'll get!!
No kidding!!!
-
Anyone else think Viper King would make a good encore song?
-
Well, I was hoping for this...this album is a fuxxing grower!
At night, lights off and with the right headphones "At Wit's end" made me cry...and also Barstool has grown a lot.
Also Pale Blue Dot is now a strong like...and Out of Reach is ok.
Just don't love Room 137...appreciate they tried something different, but it's not my cup of team
My overall rating was a 7+...grown to a full 8.
-
20$ says Pale Blue Dot is gonna be the show opener, I dare say it's the second coming of Bridges in The Sky.
-
Um... let's just put it this way - I'm glad I have tickets for all three Texas shows. This is gonna sound SO sick live!
That, and I officially cannot word. WOW. :hefdaddy
Perhaps the greatest compliment I can pay to this album is that it makes me WANT to go to all three Texas shows, especially in the hopes to see all of the album at various points.
My God, what a tour de force. Most of my feels have been captured in this thread, so i'll just echo that I'm a huge fan of our five dudes holing up for a few weeks to write an album, if it means this is what we'll get!!
I'll hoist a drink to those sentiments! :metal
-
Continuing the first experience, more first hand impressions:
Barstool Warrior - where are the memorable choruses?
In my opinion, the BW chorus is the best on the album. I particularly like how the drums make it sound different the second time around
+1
-
I've listened to the album twice so far. I'm digging it for the most part. I hear a ton of Awake in this album (not saying that's a bad thing). I'm a little let down with The Pale Blue Dot, and so far Bar Stool Warrior might be my favorite. Assuming SFAM will be the second set on the upcoming tour, I expect Paralyzed to be the opener.
-
I upgraded my gold ticket to get the VIP meet and greet and really really can't wait to hear this album and SFAM live. I really hope they play almost all songs from D/T live.
-
Only listened to the whole thing once all the way through. Some much needed prog in this album, something I think they'd started to lack in DT and TA. I'll need to give it some more of my time, for sure. First impression is they picked the most single-isa songs for the first three tracks (well done, Inside Out) Barstool Warrior, I thought, "Ok... this is definitely a return to form." I like that JR is definitely on the album, but he isn't so much in the front of the mix on this one, and I like that a lot. Fewer keyboard solos, more playing to enhance the music, from the background, so to speak. Pale Blue Dot was a lot darker than I would have imagined, but it's fantastic. Then I got to Viper King, and thought "Fuck YES!" :metal I've been waiting for a blues riff driven track from DT and this is fucking perfect. Love love love that track. I'm wondering though, is it a cover? Any particular reason for it to be a bonus track? I've seen reviews that say MM has found his place in the band on this album and I can't but agree whole heartedly. He definitely shines on this album. Definitely a return to form for the band.
-
One thing I noticed, all of the guitar solos on the album have no rhythm guitar underneath, interesting production choice which I think works really nicely.
One track I wish JP would go back in time and do that with is Constant Motion, the cool riff section that starts @ 4:03 doesn't work live cause at all cause the sound and the vibe of that riff falls out as soon as JP stops playing the riff with JR and starts playing his solo.
-
20$ says Pale Blue Dot is gonna be the show opener, I dare say it's the second coming of Bridges in The Sky.
Honestly, I would bet it's the closer/encore. While listening to it it has that feel. Also, I don't know what they did previous to SC, but since SC, every album tour ends with the album closer (Not counting encores).
SC: In the presence of the enemies
BCSL: The count of Tuscany
ADTOE: Breaking all illusions (I know Beneath the surface is the album closer, but would not be a good end to a show)
DT12: Illumination Theory
TA we all know how that went.
-
I get what you're saying Vmadera00 but I got a gut feeling about this and the reason I trust my gut feeling is that I had one about Bridges in The Sky being the opener before the ADTOE tour and brushed off as unlikely then when the news started coming in live from the first show I thought "Damn I should have made a bet" :lol
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
I agree...I'm not saying I didn't like what he's doing on the album. I think it's perfect. It's very measured. In fact, they all seem very measured and intentional in their playing. No real 'wasted' time or over playing. Just concise and well thought out.
When my dad was teaching me music when I was younger, one of the first things he said was "the notes you don't play are just as important as the ones you do", implying that you don't need to play a million miles an hour to sound good or full.
-
This is wonderful to see all this love for Dream Theater again, after it feels it was lost a bit in the three years since The Astonishing.
I will say that, as much as I love The Astonishing, it absolutely feels like an outlier now as far as their albums go. Distance Over Time, in terms of the conciseness of the songs, definitely feels like a natural evolution of the process they started on DT12.
-
After listening through it all again, I really love this album. Part of it have some "vibes" from a band called The Third Ending.
-
I love JP's solos. It's not 1000 notes per second all the time.
Like at 5:55 of AWE when he comes out of nowhere with this amazing sounding solo.
ALL of this. For me personally, it is the most soulful JP has sounded in a very long time. That solo isn't even all that complicated. But the notes resonate with the vibe of the song...
I always get laughed at when I mention Gary Moore, but many of JP's solos, especially like the soulful ones on D/T, are what my ears make me think of.
-
My largest 'gripe' with TA is that I feel like I can't just listen to a song from it. It's all or nothing for me. But, when I do get the chance to listen to it....it's such a great album choc full of insane music moments.....and MM outright and utterly KILLS it on that album.
I get this, but I can usually listen to chunks of the album and be good with it. Because who has time to listen to an album that long on a regular basis? :P
I would put my 15 song 68 min Astonishing Abridged against anything in their discog.
-
Ok, after hearing it three times. It sucks, where is Portnoy??
I'm kidding. What a super incredible album. Loved every second of it. Mangini, you are the man!!!!! I have been a fan of his from the start but he never disappoints. The whole band is firing on full cylinders.
01. Untethered Angel...great opener
02. Paralyzed One of my favorites on the album, straight rocker, sorta, for DT at least. :
03. Fall Into the Light Very Metallicaesque, love the pacing of the song, drums are killer!!
04. Barstool Warrior Kind of hard to characterize but I love it.
05. Room 137 Not typical DT but I like the vibe
06. S2N DT meets 1970's Rush!
07. At Wit’s End Very moving song, great instrumentation
08. Out Of Reach Has not clicked yet, but not bad
09. Pale Blue Dot Masterpiece!! I chuckled with happiness at some of the instrumentation
10. Viper King (Bonus track) I am not sure why this is a bonus track and not just put it after Room 137 and before S2N. Reminds me of FII song, but better. :)
-
RYM places the album between ToT and 8V. Which is another way of saying it's the best album of the last 16 years, that's impressive.
-
I upgraded my gold ticket to get the VIP meet and greet and really really can't wait to hear this album and SFAM live. I really hope they play almost all songs from D/T live.
Agreed if they played
1. Distance over time album
2. Breaking all Illusions or Bridges in the Sky
Encore
3. SFAM
4. The Glass Prison
I would be happy.
-
Quite possibly my favorite Mangini era DT album.
The processing on JLB's vocals finally works. It works so well on this album. The composition, the sound of the guitar, it all works well, there is a very robotic vibe to this album but not robotic in a bad way - it sounds sleek, futuristic, almost cybertronic at times, like Haken if Haken didn't go way overboard with that style. The artwork I think represents this very well.
Everybody's firing on all cylinders on this album. Jordan, strangely, stands out the least to me - he's crazy in the instrumental sections but for the most part I'm more fascinated with the riffs, JMX's bass lines, Mangini's drumming, and JLB's vocal characteristics more than him.
At Wit's End's main riff is monstrous. Pale Blue Dot is phenomenal. Paralyzed sounds like a JLB solo tune, in a good way. S2N and Room 137 are really cool. And the instrumental section of PBD... Wow. Just wow.
I loved The Astonishing and still do, but I think this one takes the cake for me. It's concise, it's to the point, it's interesting, it's fresh.
-
Yup...i knew id love this album. So far im enjoying it all. Highlights are S2N, At Wits End, Room 137, and Pale Blue Dot.
I honestly wouldn't mind if they played mostly D/T, and only 3-4 older songs. This album is just that good. Now I have to wait a month to see them live in Denver. Its close enough to the beginning of the tour, so I might go in blind with the set.
-
RYM places the album between ToT and 8V. Which is another way of saying it's the best album of the last 16 years, that's impressive.
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
-
RYM places the album between ToT and 8V. Which is another way of saying it's the best album of the last 16 years, that's impressive.
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
Pretty much this. I don't personally care about the album's rating, but generally speaking, RYM always rubbed me the wrong way.
-
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
Why? Looking at the ordering of the albums they seem to arrive at very sensible ratings. And if D/T gets a bit closer to 8V, If that's how people feel about it, what's wrong about that?
-
JR feels a bit more subdued than previous albums although I don't mind it...and that's not to say that he doesn't have some cool parts. Just feels like he worked on 'atmosphere control' of the songs which worked out great.
I think that JR's pieces on DOT are just more tasteful and instead of hitting a million notes, he is hitting the notes that he needs to hit.
While a bit under the radar, his parts are still pretty damn good.
I agree...I'm not saying I didn't like what he's doing on the album. I think it's perfect. It's very measured. In fact, they all seem very measured and intentional in their playing. No real 'wasted' time or over playing. Just concise and well thought out.
When my dad was teaching me music when I was younger, one of the first things he said was "the notes you don't play are just as important as the ones you do", implying that you don't need to play a million miles an hour to sound good or full.
Wow, never heard that one before. Fact: Jordan’s playing has been extremely tasteful for the last 4 albums. But it’s one of those things people never let go of . . .
-
I'll get into a meaty in-depth post when I'm on my laptop.
The short version is; I'm totally floored by how good this album is.
The combo of JM and MM locked in together, coupled with the sound
of their instruments is mind blowing. Add in JP's tone and a stellar
overall production, along with insanely great compositions and
what you get is magnificent ear candy. I never thought I'd feel this
way again about a DT album. There were several occasions when the
hair was standing up on the back of my neck. Goosebumps man.
Kudos to DT.
Amen to that my friend! And I never thought I would see emtee love a DT album again... :biggrin: :metal
B.Lee
-
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
Why? Looking at the ordering of the albums they seem to arrive at very sensible ratings. And if D/T gets a bit closer to 8V, If that's how people feel about it, what's wrong about that?
RYM is full of people who despise the band and hate-listen to their albums just to give them 0.5/5.
-
My largest 'gripe' with TA is that I feel like I can't just listen to a song from it. It's all or nothing for me. But, when I do get the chance to listen to it....it's such a great album choc full of insane music moments.....and MM outright and utterly KILLS it on that album.
I get this, but I can usually listen to chunks of the album and be good with it. Because who has time to listen to an album that long on a regular basis? :P
I would put my 15 song 68 min Astonishing Abridged against anything in their discog.
Not to get off-topic, but do tell. (The tracks you included, that is. ;D)
-
To the people who ordered the standard jewel case version: does yours have the bonus track on it? I ordered this version specifically to not have it, but it’s on there anyway 😂
-
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
Why? Looking at the ordering of the albums they seem to arrive at very sensible ratings. And if D/T gets a bit closer to 8V, If that's how people feel about it, what's wrong about that?
RYM is full of people who despise the band and hate-listen to their albums just to give them 0.5/5.
No it's not. Have you even looked at the ratings on there?
-
TBH there has been a lot of people that didn't enjoy D/T, the ratings on progarchives are also quite low: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=60604
-
TBH there has been a lot of people that didn't enjoy D/T, the ratings on progarchives are also quite low: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=60604
That's obviously trolls. No way this album ranks anywhere near a 4/10
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
-
TBH there has been a lot of people that didn't enjoy D/T, the ratings on progarchives are also quite low: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=60604
That's obviously trolls. No way this album ranks anywhere near a 4/10
That's 3.67 out of 5 actually, essentially in line with RYM. It's 4 out of 5 stars, which I think is a good rating for the album (no, it's not 5/5).
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
New Millenium??
-
^ Yes actually, to me.
-
Noticing a fair amount of criticisms with the vocal production, now with over 10 listens, I’m really digging a lot of the vocal harmonies all over the album. This whole album is just making me feel good. TYDT!
-
The rating is gonna keep going down though. Fuck RYM.
Why? Looking at the ordering of the albums they seem to arrive at very sensible ratings. And if D/T gets a bit closer to 8V, If that's how people feel about it, what's wrong about that?
RYM is full of people who despise the band and hate-listen to their albums just to give them 0.5/5.
Every band gets trolled. If it makes you happier, re-average the ratings of all the albums omitting the 0.5 entries and even the 1 entries from your own calculation. The order will be similar but the ratings will be higher.
-
I'm saying it now. Mangini has come into his own in DT on Distance Over Time. He absolutely shreds on every track. :hefdaddy
-
Another great album! My only regret at this point is that Pale Blue Dot is about 13 minutes too short. That had all the makings of a 20+ minute epic.....and a lot of great ideas could have been built upon. But still a great song regardless.
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
I have to listen to it again. Mudvayne is one of my favorite bands, so I'll keep that in mind.
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
Actually that part from Three Days is exactly what that section reminds me of! Haha.
-
Record store had about 20 copies of the standard album, but they sold out of the digipak version before I got out of work (they only got like three of those in). But they offered to order another copy of it for me so I'm waiting a little longer before I get the album.
The point is the bonus track version of DoT isn't a website-exclusive thing, thankfully.
-
Anybody know a website with accurate lyrics to bookmark?
-
ALBUM IS KILLER! :metal
Also, and I'm sure this has been discussed, but I bought the standard version of the album and Viper King was still included. Pretty sick!
Barstool Warrior is a favorite. Chorus is great. S2N as well. PBD is kick ass. Was a bit taken aback by Room 137 at first, but after a second listen, it slays! And the Viper King riff is so kick ass.
-
Anybody know a website with accurate lyrics to bookmark?
AZLyrics and Genius Lyrics seem to have accurate lyrics. Genius is better organized in its presentation imo.
-
Holy shit that outro starting at 6:32 on Fall Into the Light is fucking amazing.
-
Went to RYM, gave my rating. Read some of the reviews there and I just laughed. Somebody even said that there's nothing new whatsoever in the album, and I kinda understood already how BC&SL rated much higher than ADTOE in that site. :lol SoA's Psychotic Symphony score much higher than any post-SDOIT DT album was the killer joke for me. :lol
-
Record store had about 20 copies of the standard album, but they sold out of the digipak version before I got out of work (they only got like three of those in). But they offered to order another copy of it for me so I'm waiting a little longer before I get the album.
The point is the bonus track version of DoT isn't a website-exclusive thing, thankfully.
I got the standard jewel case and the bonus track is on there (to my dismay)
-
TBH there has been a lot of people that didn't enjoy D/T, the ratings on progarchives are also quite low: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=60604
That's obviously trolls. No way this album ranks anywhere near a 4/10
That's 3.67 out of 5 actually, essentially in line with RYM. It's 4 out of 5 stars, which I think is a good rating for the album (no, it's not 5/5).
I would be interested to know your 5 star albums to put your opinion in perspective.
-
One of the main things I'm noticing about this album is how many parts sound just so...Rush-y. About half of the songs on the album have a riff or section or the entire song that sounds super Rush-y.
When the band said they would be "going back to their roots" on this album, I wasn't expecting them to go allllllll the way back to Rush lol
-
One of the main things I'm noticing about this album is how many parts sound just so...Rush-y. About half of the songs on the album have a riff or section or the entire song that sounds super Rush-y.
When the band said they would be "going back to their roots" on this album, I wasn't expecting them to go allllllll the way back to Rush lol
Really don't hear that at all outside of S2N...
Well, beginning of Barstool Warrior too ;D
-
Record store had about 20 copies of the standard album, but they sold out of the digipak version before I got out of work (they only got like three of those in). But they offered to order another copy of it for me so I'm waiting a little longer before I get the album.
The point is the bonus track version of DoT isn't a website-exclusive thing, thankfully.
I got the standard jewel case and the bonus track is on there (to my dismay)
Is it listed on the back? I thumbed through a few of the copies and it only listed the nine songs.
-
Record store had about 20 copies of the standard album, but they sold out of the digipak version before I got out of work (they only got like three of those in). But they offered to order another copy of it for me so I'm waiting a little longer before I get the album.
The point is the bonus track version of DoT isn't a website-exclusive thing, thankfully.
I got the standard jewel case and the bonus track is on there (to my dismay)
Is it listed on the back? I thumbed through a few of the copies and it only listed the nine songs.
Not listed, but definitely there
-
After a few listens, I don't think I have a favorite I would just place them
God tier
At Wits End, the crunchy guitar mixed with that bass line that kicks in at 5:22 is just heavenly, don't even get me started with that ending solo fade. I can't wait for JP to improv & extend the shit out of that ending and it will be godly.
Pale Blue Dot, the beginning drum beats are just so kick ass to start with. Only wish is that it was a bit longer and ended a little more grand. I feel like it builds but ends when normally there would have been an additional section.Paralyzed, this is such a straight forward simple track that just makes me tingle
S2N - wow (just had to)
The rest are about the same in likeability, though the chorus line of Untethered Angel is my least liked component of the album. I just don't like that s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d out line sung of the song title.
I love Out of the Reach, it's a great segue after that magical ending of At Wit's End.
-
Record store had about 20 copies of the standard album, but they sold out of the digipak version before I got out of work (they only got like three of those in). But they offered to order another copy of it for me so I'm waiting a little longer before I get the album.
The point is the bonus track version of DoT isn't a website-exclusive thing, thankfully.
I got the standard jewel case and the bonus track is on there (to my dismay)
Is it listed on the back? I thumbed through a few of the copies and it only listed the nine songs.
Not listed, but definitely there
That is so confusing! Maybe I should have just winged it and bought a jewelcase copy. :lol
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
maybe Trial Of Tears? at 5:45 it goes: "Not within his eyes to see, open up, open up..."
-
Holy shit that outro starting at 6:32 on Fall Into the Light is fucking amazing.
Yes it is!
-
I've been spinning this album and it's a really great album. It's been a long time since I've listened and enjoyed this much DT.
-
Just cranked this record in my car, wow!
I think noxon said a while back that this was a great album to listen to while driving. It definitely is!
-
Pale Blue Dot is like The Dance Of Eternity with words. There's some crazy ass playing, but as a song, it just seems to lack the glue to hold it all together.
-
Pale Blue Dot is like The Dance Of Eternity with words. There's some crazy ass playing, but as a song, it just seems to lack the glue to hold it all together.
Definitely not. PBD has more of a typical song structure, despite the chaotic instrumental section in the middle.
-
Is the album actually available in stores somewhere? Best Buy and Target don't have it.
-
Anyone if the harsh/raspy vocal callbacks in S2N is JLB heavily processed or some other band member?
-
After many classes all day, listen to the d/t more times! :metal
Love the new look of the forums :tup
-
Pale Blue Dot is like The Dance Of Eternity with words. There's some crazy ass playing, but as a song, it just seems to lack the glue to hold it all together.
Definitely not. PBD has more of a typical song structure, despite the chaotic instrumental section in the middle.
I mean "technically" there's a song structure. I guess.
-
After the 1st listen here is how I rank the tracks
#1 Barstool Warrior- Great melodic song. Only knock on it is how it ends abruptly like it doesn'[t have a proper ending. I wish the rest of the songs had vocal parts written this well. Beautiful section in the middle and then Petrucci takes over and plays a short guitar solo with feel before the vocals kick in again
#2 At Wit's End - More "feel" here. Love when Petrucci plays with feel - his guitar at the end along with JLB "Don't leave me now" = heaven
#3 SN2 - That bass and that guitar. Damn. Heavy but with melody. Love it. I don't mind the distorted vocals at the beginning. At least they weren't Portnoy cookie monster vocals.
#4 Fall into the Light
#5 Out of Reach - Not a big fan of the high vocal section at the end so far but like the song
#6 Paralyzed
#7 Untethered Angel - Standard DT song that sounds familiar like it was off of A Dramatic Turn of Events
#8 Viper King - Fun song but the verses and chorus were not as memorable as they should be for a song like this. Really wanted to like this more but needed a catchy chorus. Seemed like it need something goofy and memorable like Whitesnake's chorus on their new single....OK...not as goofy but still I expected something like "In the Halls of the Viper King" (little Savatage joke)
#9 Room 137 - Not memorable - Seems like a B-Side
#10 Pale Blue Dot - The vocal verses and chorus do not grab me at all. Liked the first 3 minutes but then wanted it to end. The circus/chaos instrumental sections at the end have been done before tons of times by them.
Overall I am not a huge fan of the new album even though I think they sound tight. It falls short to me on memorable verses and choruses. Just a personal preference but the instrument sections sound unique and I love how tight they sound (At Wits End and SN2 instruments sections are WOW) To me they fell short in writing the vocal sections. I love albums like Awake, Images, Scenes, Octavarium, and even Falling to Infinity because of the excellent musicianship mixed with memorable vocal sections and choruses. Not bashing James at all. I don't ever want DT to switch singers to me it fell short in vocal (writing) department.
I am glad that many fans love the album. I personally even rank The Astonishing above it though. Even though it was too long, had the wasted robot tracks and cheesy lyrics like "my music player" it had more melody in the vocal parts. I at least like every Dream Theater album and this is no exception. Good album but as of now the only one I rank below it is WDADU (and that is only because Charlie sings on it). That could very well change after repeated listens.
*This is based off of a youtube listen since Amazon isn't getting my disc to me until the 26th....the bastards. I wanted to drive around cranking it in my car.
-
With just 1 listen under my belt I can say I definitely like this disk! Early favorites are Pale Blue Dot, Room 137, Fall Into the Light and S2N. My copy is missing the 10th track on the jewel case, and also all the songs had tags with "Instrumental Version", even the DOT title... Hmmm. I wonder...
Also did anyone else think of Marilyn Manson's "Beautiful People" during the intro to Room 137? Just for a second maybe?
-
Anyone if the harsh/raspy vocal callbacks in S2N is JLB heavily processed or some other band member?
It sounds like heavily processed James to me.
-
I'm loving the album, btw. Don't have the words to describe it right now, but I've given it 4 or 5 full listens, as well as listening to individual songs, and it's growing on me more and more with each listen. Might be a top 5 DT album for me, but I still need more time with it to rank it against the other MM era albums + my all time favorites like SFAM and SDOIT.
-
I'm over the moon with this album... I was okay with Untethered Angel but not super excited, it seemed like generic DT, which is still good, but.... WOW. The rest of this is really fresh and new ground in places. I love the sense of space and atmosphere throughout. Everybody really shines to me, and I appreciate Jordan taking the density factor down a notch and giving the songs breathing room. Hopefully it ages well. Top 5 for me at the moment.
-
By the way love the new design on the forum bosk. I assume it's you who changes it. :)
-
After absolutely loving my first several listens, I've been really surprised by how much I've come to enjoy Out of Reach! It's a wonderful change of mood from the rest of the album.
While DT ballads are often criticised as being cheesy and saccharine (sometimes, justifiably so) this one is not so - it has a really nice bittersweet mood -melodic and melancholic at the same time. And JLB's vocals are simply stunning.
-
Pale Blue Dot is like The Dance Of Eternity with words. There's some crazy ass playing, but as a song, it just seems to lack the glue to hold it all together.
Definitely not. PBD has more of a typical song structure, despite the chaotic instrumental section in the middle.
Love this section, I hear some Zappaisms in it.
-
Barstool Warrior is a great song. Like it more now.
R137: unique :hefdaddy
S2N an amazing song. Absolutely fantastic. WOW!
It's a shame the SC/BCSL-like outro. But doesn't matter. It's still amazing!
-
S2N an amazing song. Absolutely fantastic. WOW!
It's a shame the SC/BCSL-like outro. But doesn't matter. It's still amazing!
They have to know fans are going to link it to TDEN. Seems like a weird choice.
I guess we know when the Zen Riffer will make an appearance during the show.
-
The part with:6
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
Brace yourselves
Bow down to Nafaryus
Nope, it doesn't sound like that part from Three Days......for some reason Mudvayne comes to mind but I really can't recall what song the bridge is like.
maybe Trial Of Tears? at 5:45 it goes: "Not within his eyes to see, open up, open up..."
Not sure it's exactly what I was thinking of but I just relistened to that part of TOT and damn that's close! :o Thanks for bringing it to mind.
-
One of the main things I'm noticing about this album is how many parts sound just so...Rush-y. About half of the songs on the album have a riff or section or the entire song that sounds super Rush-y.
When the band said they would be "going back to their roots" on this album, I wasn't expecting them to go allllllll the way back to Rush lol
Really don't hear that at all outside of S2N...
Well, beginning of Barstool Warrior too ;D
Viper King and At Wit's End both have parts that are super Rush-y imo.
-
Given the album a couple of listens in my hotel room in Hong Kong as I went on holiday, the night before it came out. The art book version will be waiting for me when I get home in 4 weeks but obviously I couldn’t wait that long to hear the album so have had to buy the album on iTunes as well.
From what I’ve heard, it’s another excellent album, have they ever done an album which isn’t? Don’t answer that! I know the first 3 songs fairly well and really enjoy them on the album. The rest is going to take some time as I keep becoming distracted. Barstool Warrior and At Wit’s End sound the best to me as I’m a sucker for Petrucci in melodic solo mode. Even those songs though I’m not sure I’ve heard properly all the way through. The others I’m less familiar with but nothing sounds like I won’t like it. The one disappointment is Pale Blue Dot and that’s not to say it’s a bad song per se but when JP said it “screamed closing song”, I was expecting maybe something more epic in nature, a huge finale and it doesn’t feel like that to me. It may grow on me though.
Will give a more thought out review when I know the album better, I have no doubt though that it will be yet another quality album to add to their pretty incredible discography. Dream Theater remain the kings of progressive metal and, whilst I’m not interested in the MP bashing, this is lightyears away from Sons Of Apollo.
-
PBD 2:03: Edit: oops... Darth Vader enters :lol
-
After a couple listens, I am liking this, but not sure how much yet. I get the feeling that some of this will grow on me the more I listen.
Of the three "singles," Fall into the Light really stands out as the best of the bunch, and I would say it is one of the best songs from the whole record. Untethered Angel is a good song and a nice opener, while Paralyzed is still just kinda there.
Of the new songs (in other words, track 4 till the end), I will echo what I am seeing from a lot of people and say that Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End are really standing out. I like both of those a lot already.
Out of Reach seemed like a good ballad, but time will tell how much I like it.
Still trying to wrap my head around Room 137, S2N and Pale Blue Dot.
Viper King, the bonus track, is really good. That main riff is pretty different for them, but I dig it.
The sound of the album definitely lacks dynamic range, but it still sounds good so far, regardless.
-
I am still processing. I really feel JP owns this album so far. He really has brought in alot of heart felt melody. I really was worried after the first 2 singles. Paralyzed was definately in my wheelhouse, but honestly, I feel the rest of the album rises above the singles that were released. At Wits End, is one of the best DT songs, since SDOiT. That outro live is going to be amazing.
Barstool Warrior has such an eclectic melodic piece of writing. It sounds like it would be one of the best tracks on FII. The ballad is their best since Vacant.
Great piece of work and writing by these guys.
-
I get what you're saying Vmadera00 but I got a gut feeling about this and the reason I trust my gut feeling is that I had one about Bridges in The Sky being the opener before the ADTOE tour and brushed off as unlikely then when the news started coming in live from the first show I thought "Damn I should have made a bet" :lol
I'm betting Fall Into the Light will be the opener. And, no, I don't have any inside info. (I asked NOT to know...although I did inadvertently find out one song that is NOT in the set)
-
I'm betting Fall Into the Light will be the opener. And, no, I don't have any inside info. (I asked NOT to know...although I did inadvertently find out one song that is NOT in the set)
My guess would be they would come out to the dark stage to the pre-recorded intro of Untethered Angel and then the full band comes in live at the 30-second mark while the lights comes up and the crowd goes nuts.
-
Barstool Warrior is an instant Top 5 of the Rudess era. Maybe higher.
There, I said it.
There are some ups and downs on this album (I would have cut Room 137), but BW and FITL are definitely some of their best work lately.
-
OK, now I can say that I completely dig AWE. :metal :biggrin:
PBD not yet. :-\
-
Between work and commuting, I must've listened to it 8-10 times. My hot takes are usually restrained and I just let the test of time do its work before ranking etc. But I do have many thoughts so far on each track, after also having listened to the singles many times since they were released. So here we go:
Untethered Angel
If I ranked the songs (excluding Viper King, which I haven't heard yet) it would probably be at the bottom or 2nd last. Not a bad song per se, just not my cup of tea, especially as far as singles go. I still find the 1st verse underwhelming but it gets better from that point on. I find "The Root of All Evil" has the exact same role in its respective record but just is a better track mainly because of the vocal melodies and the lyrics.
Paralyzed
This has been written elsewhere I think but the first part is so Breaking Benjamin huh? I happen to like that band so I don't mind at all. JLB picks it up on that one, although it's strange how what sounds like the bridge ends up almost being the chorus... interesting. To make a parallel with Octavarium again, just like a song such as "I Walk Beside You" doesn't exactly scream "Dream Theater", this one doesn't also, but ends up being a very good song. I like it!
Fall Into The Light
The 2nd riff in the beginning is like the simplest thing ever and still works so well with the production, it sounds so heavy. Can't wait to hear this live. The chorus is not catchy in the classical sense but it's still stuck with me. The changes between mellow and heavy are exactly what you'd expect from them and they still make them sound interesting. Good lyrics by JM as usual, well done overall.
Barstool Warrior
Yeah, I get that Six Degrees vibe from that one, in particular it reminds me of the About To Crash reprise. Overall I think the intention was to have a sense of nostalgia mixed with hopefulness and I think they achieved it. JM and MM kind of give way to the others to shine on this track...
Room 137
Although the approach on this one is interesting and I find some parts fun (especially the solo section), it still doesn't sound like a strong track to me. In particular, I don't find the chorus very interesting. This and "Untethered Angel" probably end up in the "meh" tier for now. I kind of get the whole thing about the number itself and the concept but it doesn't help much.
S2N
JM and MM do great at carrying this track doing great stuff rhythmically. In the beginning I found the structure strange the way the chorus popped up. Also notice how it grows between each repetition ("our wounds begin to heal")... that definitely seems intentional. I think it takes the crown as the best chorus in the album. The heavy riff at the end will be another great moment live without a doubt. In general they have some of the best heavy riffs they have had in a while in the record and although for the most part they are very simple - sometimes they're just single notes - they get a great boost by the production, they end up sounding huge.
At Wit's End
Well I think the final section must've been an instant hit for most people, as almost singlehandedly it makes this song an instant classic. Pretty much every album has a couple of songs that eventually become reference points and this is probably one of them. All sections from the very beginning serve their purpose well and JLB does great as he usually does in tracks where he writes the lyrics. But yeah, the final section is fantastic, you just don't want it to end.
Out of Reach
Meant to serve as a breather track I suppose but this is unexpectedly good. Does what "Along For The Ride" was supposed to, only much better. Soothing and powerful at the same time. It's got its fair share of cheese but I like it.
Pale Blue Dot
I have a soft spot for anything space-related and I was a fan of Sagan's work before I ever listened to Dream Theater. So when I saw the title on the track listing for the first time I cracked a smile and naturally went into super-hyped mode, especially as reviews started coming out. I understand where people are coming from with thinking it's short or not really getting it or whatever but for me it's perfect the way it is. The way I see it, it is written from the perspective of an imaginary passenger on Voyager 1 and I'm wondering if they had this in mind when writing these crazy passages during the instrumental section, thinking about the insane speed (get it? ;D) at which it travels... at least compared to what we're used to in our everyday lives. To me, it captures the essence of Sagan's words very well. Bravo.
Overall I think the album is good with some great moments. So where it sits in their discography after all is said and done to me is for the most part irrelevant. The mere fact they're still capable of putting out quality work after almost 35 years of activity and 13 LPs speaks volumes.
-
OK, now I can say that I completely dig AWE. :metal :biggrin:
PBD not yet. :-\
Yep, I just listened to At Wit's End again and that is definitely a great one (not sure how I feel about the hidden part at the end after the fadeout, though).
Pale Blue Dot is a head scratcher so far for me, but I could see that being a major grower.
-
OK, now I can say that I completely dig AWE. :metal :biggrin:
PBD not yet. :-\
Yep, I just listened to At Wit's End again and that is definitely a great one (not sure how I feel about the hidden part at the end after the fadeout, though).
Pale Blue Dot is a head scratcher so far for me, but I could see that being a major grower.
I totally seconded the bold parts.
-
OK, now I can say that I completely dig AWE. :metal :biggrin:
PBD not yet. :-\
I am with you! I.Love.This.Song.
-
Finally able to post my thoughts after listening to the album for a few hours today on some flights from Chicago to California.
Expectations are everything, and after the 3 solid singles, the glowing reviews and the fan reaction I expected greatness. I have to say I am a little disappointed. Dream Theater albums tend to grow on me so I am not going to overreact yet. But here are my initial thoughts.
The Good: The mix, the production, the energy, the rhythm section.
The bad: The songwriting, Rudess, and the vocals.
I'm going to skip the singles and go to the rest of the album:
Barstool Warrior: The first half is great but the second half drags on and sort of leads to nowhere
Room 137- Fun song, kind of dumb but fun. The Petrucci solo is awesome.
S2N- Good song, but terrible outro with Rudesses completely uninspired solo.
At Wits End: Pretty great, not really any complaints.
Out of Reach: Excellent from start to finish. A great power ballad.
Pale Blue Dot: Ugh... what were they thinking? This song makes no sense.... its one of their worst attempts at an epic. The vocals are bad and the song just sounds like 8 different people wrote sections and moshed them together.
Viper King: Fun song, expected better.
Overall on my first day of listening I would say this ranks as the best or second best Mangini album but nowhere near the Pre-TOT era DT.
I am hoping it continues to grow on me though. I hated 6 degrees when I first got it and now its my #3 DT and one of my all time favorite albums.
So... all of my comments are subject to change. Overall, its a good album but I guess I may have been too influenced by the hype.
-
I hated 6 degrees when I first got it and now its my #3 DT and one of my all time favorite albums.
I hated CD1 when I first got it.
I've spent months listening to only CD2.
-
OK, now I can say that I completely dig AWE. :metal :biggrin:
PBD not yet. :-\
I am with you! I.Love.This.Song.
:D
It's really a great one.
-
The first time I heard that Room 137 riff today, I was like, "That sounds like something I've heard before," and it just hit me: it reminds me of Ayreon's Everybody Dies.
I can always spot the "this DT song sounds like this song" moments. :P
-
Someone told me PBD remembers something about Haken's Veil.
I've listened to Veil again, but I found no similarity, besides chug riffs. I confess that I didn't really pay attention cause I don't like Vector at all.
There's is some similarity?
-
I'm soooooo pissed off.
I put off the preorder long enough....that the deluxe edition was sold out by the time I got around to it.
So I ordered the regular version from Amazon.....................................who isn't shipping it til March 1st. >:( >:( >:( >:( :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored
EDIT - speaking of which. Did anyone buy an extra that they are willing to part with?
-
So I ordered the regular version from Amazon.....................................who isn't shipping it til March 1st.
In the same boat here. I just got that notification. And you and I are in Amazon's backyard! I blame Kshama Sawant.
-
So I ordered the regular version from Amazon.....................................who isn't shipping it til March 1st.
In the same boat here. I just got that notification. And you and I are in Amazon's backyard! I blame Kshama Sawant.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
-
I have only skimmed through all the thoughts here from the past 24 hours, and Kev's post sums up my feelings the most closely.
Untethered Angel: Good rocker.
Paralyzed: 99% awesome, 1% lame (the 1% being the "I am paralyzed" part.
Fall Into the Light: Great
Barstool Warrior: Awesome
Room 137: Pretty good, vocal lines bring it down a bit.
S2N: Great song
At Wit's End: Stellar
Out of Reach: Great, except I don't like the vocal "ooohhhhs" at the end.
Pale Blue Dot: Have not fully decided yet. I was afraid we were going to get minutes of garbage like at the beginning of The Great Debate.
Viper King: The opening riff is not something I care for, but once the vocals come in it is a good song. I imagine it will kill live.
Summary: Sounds great, Fun, enjoyable album start to finish. No filler, few lulls and valleys, few awkward vocal melodies or phrasings (something I am overly sensitive to in DT). Usually digest lyrics after a few listens so not at that point yet. My First 24 Hours thought is that I'd rank this below ADToE, above DT12, and I couldn't assess TA after only a day or two. It's been 3 years and I still don't know how I feel about it!
One thing DT has been lacking for me is memorability. I haven't listened to ADToE in a long, long time but I can instantly hum sections, sing whole verses, and tap my feet to the music in my head. DT12 had none of that for me, and it goes back to the last coulple albums with MP. This album doesn't either, but that's just after a couple listens.
-
very cool video with JP about his riffs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8-RTJkM_g
-
Room 137 reminds me of Drop Dead Cynical by Amaranthe (the intro), That song has grown on me quite a lot
-
PBD 2:03: Edit: oops... Darth Vader enters :lol
Well spotted :lol
-
Thought it was cool that Metacritics for once picked up the album on "new and notable". This album is getting a lot of good reviews from critics which is farily unusual when it comes to DT afaik.
https://www.metacritic.com/music/distance-over-time/dream-theater
-
Loving the album. Another spin and everything has grown even more. Barstool Warrior is just one of the best songs they have done. Room 137 and S2N have grown a lot. At Wit's End is very heartbreaking. What a song and the subject is really touching the way they have done it.
Only UA that I don't fully appriciate. I think I dare say this could be strongest album since SDOIT :omg:
BTW anyone else think Out of Reach has a fantastic kinda dynamic/breathy sound to it? Also James peformance is so cool in that song. Feels like it fits his voice perfect and he sings in a way I never heard really.
-
Funnily enough, Viper King might be my favorite track on here :P It's so out of left field and refreshing to hear an upbeat, groovy, almost danceable song from Dream Theater. I would actually be down if they decided their next album would go into a hard rock / boogie / rockabilly / whatever you would call Viper King direction.
Also, the album deals with some serious issues. The fact that they end the whole thing with a groovy song about a sports car is kind of hilarious to me.
-
I haven't listened to much of the first three tracks since the album came out, since I became so familiar with them as singles ahead of release. So it kind of feels like the first three tracks of D/T are a whole 'nother album. Anyone else feel that way?
-
The more messages the more I'm happy to see how well the album is welcomed :)
I love how it sounds a band's work, how it just goes straight to the point for riffs or solos, it's not wankery, it's pure art.
Dt's magic for me is that beyond the fact I'm not a native english speaker, but still a musician, there are moments that will tighten my throat or even make me cry forever... From at wit's end second part to goodnight kiss...
That's the reason why I can't push the critic to details, even if the band must be proud having such critic and exiging fans (never enough?)
-
What a band! At Wits End is so Dream Theater. Amazing!
And Mangini...what a man. Unbelievable.
-
Also did anyone else think of Marilyn Manson's "Beautiful People" during the intro to Room 137? Just for a second maybe?
Definitively!
-
Also did anyone else think of Marilyn Manson's "Beautiful People" during the intro to Room 137? Just for a second maybe?
Honestly not much....but the initial verse is VERY similar to the RHCP cover of Higher Grounds
-
very cool video with JP about his riffs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8-RTJkM_g
Very cool, but did the interviewer electrocute himself before the interview?
-
Also did anyone else think of Marilyn Manson's "Beautiful People" during the intro to Room 137? Just for a second maybe?
Honestly not much....but the initial verse is VERY similar to the RHCP cover of Higher Grounds
Exactly my thoughts, it had the same rythmic feel
-
I want to give all of DT a hug for writing At Wits End, this song is already among my favorite songs period now.
It's hard to judge between At Wits End and Pale Blue Dot but Wits End gets me on a very intense emotional rollercoaster (the second half is tearful, really, they haven't written anything that makes me feel like this.....for quite a lot of albums) in such a way that I may only just favorite it but it's so hard to judge between the two cause they're both soooo epic :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
-
I just wanted to chime in, again, with how amazingly wonderful this album is and how much I am stoked for this band after this release. Such a strong output, I cannot wrap my head around it (for my full review, please refer to page 3 :lol ). AWE is absolutely mind-boggling, and so is BW.
Another thing I wanted to note is how nice the new skin/theme of forum is.
-
Soon I'll start my second listening. I'm thinking that maybe I should ditch the booklet this time around and just listen to the music, I have all the time in the world to learn the lyrics with future listenings, there's no need to read them every single time during the first days...
-
I'm only about 3 listens in and Out Of Reach is my favorite so far. Did not expect that as I'd heard it's a ballad and it's buried towards the end of the album. Very strong melodically. This album has been a great listen so far.
-
Really nice to see how many people are loving the album.
For my own part, I'm enjoying it hugely but perhaps not as excited as others. I don't see DT as being "back" because I never thought they went away. DT12 and TA were a slightly step down but still really solid. On balance I do think it's better than those two but not as fantastic as ADTOE, which is in my top 3 DT albums. The thing I do particularly like about it is that there's a sense of fun and energy which gives it a nice vibe, and is possibly helping people really connect with it.
Thoughts on each song below. Too early to try ranking or rating them in any meaningful way.
Untethered Angel: Surprisingly this is one of my favourites. Stylistically it's pretty standard DT fare, but it's just really well done and very catchy. Really dig the main riff and the chorus.
Paralyzed: Eh, this is fine but just kind of there. Nothing very memorable or interesting for me.
Fall Into the Light: Solid track overall, but I absolutely adore the instrumental bridge section. Seems to have nothing to do with the rest of the song, but in and of itself it's one of my favourite parts of the album.
Barstool Warrior: Another solid track and another strong chorus. I don't always love DT's obviously-Rush-inspired songs but this is one of the better ones, and the guitar solo is absolutely wonderful. The end of the solo in particular is another of my favourite moments.
Room 137: Another song that's fine but I don't love. It's a bit different for them (especially the Beatles-esque vocals in a heavy track which gives it an oddly grungy feel), which is cool, but I don't find the song very interesting.
S2N: Solid track again and would probably have been a favourite if it had a more interesting chorus. But chorus aside, this has a fantastic groove and lots of brilliant stuff. Chorus might grow on me so it could still end up being among my favourites on the album.
At Wit's End: Really nice song and one of my favourites. I can see the comparisons to The Bigger Picture but I don't think it's a better version or anything. I think TBP is warmer and the melodies more engaging, but AWE has the benefit of feeling more complete - it always bugged me that TBP seemed to fizzle out just as it was introducing a great new theme. So roughly on a far overall I think.
Out of Reach: A very nice ballad, particularly in the power-ballad final chorus, but I've never been a fan of JLB's really breathy ballad vocals and I do find them a bit much in a couple of earlier moments here.
Pale Blue Dot: Considering this is the end of the album-proper, I find it somewhat anticlimactic, even though it's heavy. The music's cool but it doesn't have much of a hook. It's grown on me from my first listens, but I don't see this becoming a favourite.
Viper King: I know this is a fun bonus track but it's one of my favourites. Fantastic groove and energy, just really really enjoyable.
-
Every time I spin it, it gets better. I won't do any rankings or place it in any kind of discography order
as only time allows for that.
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
For the first time in a LONG time, there is nothing that I want to skip over, not one single measure. The album
is concise, focused and my God are the guys playing tight. If they can pull off PBD live it will be amazing.
Others miss the long epic...not me. It's been done to death. This album takes you on a ride and keeps you
at the top of the roller coaster--looking down the slope with anticipation of the crazy descent, and it keeps
you there for the entire duration.
I love every single song, including the beautiful ballad. And, once again, the length of the song matters. If that
song drags on for another 3 minutes, it would detract. But instead, it gives you a short rest from the insanity.
Every single member of the band shines. Their playing, the sound and clarity of their instruments and their ability
to lock in with each other...bolstered by that beefy, clear, low end production just kicks my ass all over the place.
All in all, a fantastic album from start to finish. Mind blowing really. My hats off to everyone in the DT machine
for this one. It's a 475' home run...over the fence of the ball park and bouncing around in the parking lot
smashing windshields on all the cars.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
Only listened on headphones so far, can’t wait to crank the CD in the car when it arrives Monday.
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
-
Jesus christ :lol I tho it sounded great, didn't know it was supposed to sound so shitty.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
Huh...I have to think about that...
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
Well, today I had The Enemy Inside just after D/T in my car, and honestly I have to say I prefer DT12 production to D/T
They are pretty similar, but James voice is much better in DT12
I never understood all the complaints on DT12...the only issue I heard there was the snare sound that clearly did not work on some songs (TBG, Along for the ride...) but for the rest for me is fine.
In D/T, the low vocal mix + excess of effects + average vocal melodies are a real problem IMHO...they prevent the album from "flying"
-
Well, 7 listens in : I don't think it will ever break my top 3 (I&W, Awake and SFAM) BUT it may well take the 4th place occupied in my my list by ToT. I like everything about the album, even though the vocals might have been a little higher in the mix. I was first embarked by the whole songs and didn't pay attention to the subtleties behind. Man, with every new listen, I hear something I hadn't got up to then.
B.Lee
-
I never understood all the complaints on DT12...the only issue I heard there was the snare sound that clearly did not work on some songs (TBG, Along for the ride...) but for the rest for me is fine.
I only listen to the HD version now, so I am okay with it sounds for the most part. I listen to only HD version of ADTOE as well, but the increased dynamic range didn't make it sound less muddy (to me anyway), which is kinda frustrating.
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
Well, today I had The Enemy Inside just after D/T in my car, and honestly I have to say I prefer DT12 production to D/T
They are pretty similar, but James voice is much better in DT12
I never understood all the complaints on DT12...the only issue I heard there was the snare sound that clearly did not work on some songs (TBG, Along for the ride...) but for the rest for me is fine.
In D/T, the low vocal mix + excess of effects + average vocal melodies are a real problem IMHO...they prevent the album from "flying"
To each his own, but for me, D/T succeeds where DT12 fails : "short", concise, interesting songs throughout the whole album (not that there wasn't any on DT12).
B.Lee
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
TL/DR: An album can still sound better/cleaner to most people despite scoring horribly on the loudness test because EQ and loudness/dynamics are 2 different things
The reason people think it still sounds good despite this score is:
As you probably know, this scale is just measuring overall dynamic range in terms of loudness. It's mostly a test for the average differences in loudness between the different peaks of the music.
Muddiness that you mention on ADToE is an Equalization characteristic, where there is too much information in the mid-range which prevents that clarity and "sparkle" of a better mix.
DoT sounds better to most people because it is much better equalized than past albums. The hats sound brighter, the snare hasn't been EQ'd to sound too poppy and unnatural (like on DT12), the album isn't muddy like the last 2, everything is panned nicely and has its own space in the spectrum, etc.
So basically, it can still sound cleaner/clearer but still score terribly on the loudness wars test. This test just means that whoever mastered it is trying to fit in with today's music standard, and raised the setting on his/her limiter way too high.
For those who don't know, the limiter basically lowers the loudest parts of the album below a certain threshold, while raising up all of the lower parts to be closer to that threshold - raising the overall volume of the album but sacrificing natural dynamics and creating more of a "wall of sound".
Hope this helps anyone!
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
TL/DR: An album can still sound better/cleaner to most people despite scoring horribly on the loudness test because EQ and loudness/dynamics are 2 different things
The reason people think it still sounds good despite this score is:
As you probably know, this scale is just measuring overall dynamic range in terms of loudness. It's mostly a test for the average differences in loudness between the different peaks of the music.
Muddiness that you mention on ADToE is an Equalization characteristic, where there is too much information in the mid-range which prevents that clarity and "sparkle" of a better mix.
DoT sounds better to most people because it is much better equalized than past albums. The hats sound brighter, the snare hasn't been EQ'd to sound too poppy and unnatural (like on DT12), the album isn't muddy like the last 2, everything is panned nicely and has its own space in the spectrum, etc.
So basically, it can still sound cleaner/clearer but still score terribly on the loudness wars test. This test just means that whoever mastered it is trying to fit in with today's music standard, and raised the setting on his/her limiter way too high.
For those who don't know, the limiter basically lowers the loudest parts of the album below a certain threshold, while raising up all of the lower parts to be closer to that threshold - raising the overall volume of the album but sacrificing natural dynamics and creating more of a "wall of sound".
Hope this helps anyone!
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. :tup :tup
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
TL/DR: An album can still sound better/cleaner to most people despite scoring horribly on the loudness test because EQ and loudness/dynamics are 2 different things
The reason people think it still sounds good despite this score is:
As you probably know, this scale is just measuring overall dynamic range in terms of loudness. It's mostly a test for the average differences in loudness between the different peaks of the music.
Muddiness that you mention on ADToE is an Equalization characteristic, where there is too much information in the mid-range which prevents that clarity and "sparkle" of a better mix.
DoT sounds better to most people because it is much better equalized than past albums. The hats sound brighter, the snare hasn't been EQ'd to sound too poppy and unnatural (like on DT12), the album isn't muddy like the last 2, everything is panned nicely and has its own space in the spectrum, etc.
So basically, it can still sound cleaner/clearer but still score terribly on the loudness wars test. This test just means that whoever mastered it is trying to fit in with today's music standard, and raised the setting on his/her limiter way too high.
For those who don't know, the limiter basically lowers the loudest parts of the album below a certain threshold, while raising up all of the lower parts to be closer to that threshold - raising the overall volume of the album but sacrificing natural dynamics and creating more of a "wall of sound".
Hope this helps anyone!
Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. :tup :tup
No prob! Btw out of curiosity, have you ever put a Hevy Devy album into the loudness test? I'd be interested to know how it comes back since his music is designed around that wall of sound idea. If you ever do it, let me know! I'd do it but I don't have any albums on my PC atm
SCRATCH THAT ha - I didn't realize the albums were already available on that site. Devy actually didn't do too bad based on his style!
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put on a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
-
Just completed my first listen. I'm not reviewing anything, for I need at least one year of distance to metabolise/contestualise and five years to make a Scene. One thing I do need to say, though:
The last thing I could think in 1992 was seeing myself giddy 27 years down the line for a 14th (and half) DT release. It's a kind of musical/professional miracle for at least 49 different reasons and I feel beyond grateful.
-
So you now can respond to me as Viper Kingshmegland. ;D
-
I'm actually surprised your username hasn't been forcefully modified yet. :D
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put in a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
LOL, what?
No prob! Btw out of curiosity, have you ever put a Hevy Devy album into the loudness test? I'd be interested to know how it comes back since his music is designed around that wall of sound idea. If you ever do it, let me know! I'd do it but I don't have any albums on my PC atm
SCRATCH THAT ha - I didn't realize the albums were already available on that site. Devy actually didn't do too bad based on his style!
:tup :tup
-
Alright just listened again starting with BW. It definitely clicked way more for me this time.
Honestly, there is no skippable track. The only thing bringing this album down for me is PBT. If that song would have been killer this may have been their best album since SDOIT.
Viper King is growing on me A LOT! The chorus actually reminds of the fun and spirit of Take the Time even though the styles are completely different. I really wish they would do this type of thing more often. Upbeat DT songs are always great IMO.
UA... really enjoy it now, especially the instrumental break
Paralyzed... really enjoy it
Fall into the Light... Fantastic
BW(90% amazing, still hoping the final minute clicks)
Room 137 Really enjoy it and that JP solo is great
S2N Great... wish Rudess wasn't soloing at the end.
At Wit's end... fantastic.
Out of Reach... fantastic This song needs more love....it sounds amazing!
PBT- Huge bummer.... The beginning is sweet but as soon as the vocals come in its like SC all over again. I hope it grows on me.
Viper King... fantatic.
-
The last thing I could think in 1992 was seeing myself giddy 27 years down the line for a 14th (and half) DT release. It's a kind of musical/professional miracle for at least 49 different reasons and I feel beyond grateful.
So I vividly remember consciously having those thoughts. I mean, I&W was so monumental "as it was happening". It was clearly the best album I had ever heard by the best band I had ever heard. I used to think, how will they follow this up? Where will they be in 5 years? 10? 25?
Even though I like some albums better than others, I "really like" or "love" all of them. They have never disappointed me, with the exception of FII.
-
After the second listening, I'm feeling something's amiss... I mean, I like all about the approach: the production is cool, them holing up together for "summer camp" and jamming it out was a great idea and it shows, the songs have many nice twists and turns without never being bloated, but.... where are the choruses?
I mean, it's not that DT has to write catchy choruses like if they were a power metal band, but still I'm not totally sold on the choruses, they seem so weak or even absent, because sometimes they just feel like a bridge (Barstool Warrior and Room 137 for example). I have to wait until S2N to hear a good chorus, and yet it's still far from their best ones.... without going too far back in time, there's nothing like the chorus for Behind the Veil here that immediately stands out (even though At Wit's End has a quite cool and dramatic chorus).
Maybe with future listenings the songs will click with me, but even though I like the approach and the occasional great moment here and there (the mellow part in Fall Into the Light, the intro to Barstool Warrior, most if not everything about At Wit's End), I'm not sold yet on the choruses. I hope "yet" is the keyword here, it would feel weird to have an album where I basically applaud every stlistic choice they've made (the variety, the novelty, many of the ideas heard, the production as I said), but fail to appreciate truly the songs because of a lack of climaxes in the choruses.
-
Barstool Warrior's chorus is not memorable?
-
I had cornered the Metallica influence in Fall in the Light to just the opening riff but the more I listen I find a very strong Metallica presence throughout the track.
Like starting 3:19; FITL closely follows the structure of Master of Puppets and almost provokes the same feels. Beautiful mellow section, back to metal, a singing bridge then a fast guitar solo. Only difference is that MOP has another verse and chorus after that while FITL ends.
And the verses, the verses are what most of Hardwired's songs would have sounded like if Metallica had a better drummer or generally gave a genuine fuck about their output.
-
Barstool Warrior's chorus is not memorable?
Hands down best chorus since Bridges in The sky.
-
The last thing I could think in 1992 was seeing myself giddy 27 years down the line for a 14th (and half) DT release. It's a kind of musical/professional miracle for at least 49 different reasons and I feel beyond grateful.
So I vividly remember consciously having those thoughts. I mean, I&W was so monumental "as it was happening". It was clearly the best album I had ever heard by the best band I had ever heard. I used to think, how will they follow this up? Where will they be in 5 years? 10? 25?
Same here, so true. After all, at the time I was someway unconsciously convinced every band's lifespan rarely exceeded the 10 years mark. It takes a special kind of bond between a special kind of people to keep the ship together for all these years, unless you're a moneymaking/driven monster like, say, The Rolling Stones, but that's obviously not the case.
Even though I like some albums better than others, I "really like" or "love" all of them. They have never disappointed me, with the exception of FII.
This resonates a lot. All (my) jokings aside, I can't find myself "really" not liking even those albums I don't like. They're too dense of ideas, music and musicianship. Dislike for me always stemmed from my (not DT's) particular moments and personal expectations in time, and even the albums I like less, I still love. A little bit like family.
Thread sentimental hijacking over.
-
I'm at work now, busy with stuff and people. In all this mess I find myself mumbling "call it bad luck, call it fate... call it la la la..." repeatedly. Just this chorus. :lol
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put on a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
Here is my humble view :)
UA 2nd verse and prechorus? - I actually love the chorus here :biggrin:
BW chorus? :tdwn
Paralyzed verse? I actually love ALL the melodies here...it's the best song for me :loser:
Beatles-esque portion of R137? Fun to here once, but not my cup of tea.
S2n chorus? :tdwn :tdwn Pity because the "dynamics" of the song are great
AWE chorus? Yes, this one is good.
AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? Nice but not stellar
AWE outro? That's cheating, it's guitar :biggrin:
Out of Reach? :\ preatty meah...it's probably my least favorite ballad in a while
VK chorus Fun
So...UA, Paralyzed and AWE (my fav songs at the moment) have indeed nice melodies, all other songs have..other great things, but not vocal melodies.
(e..g the melody of FITL interlude is beautiful, and also the guitar melodies of BW)
I will add one...quite controversial.
The melody of the verse of PBT is indeed beautiful.
I found it absolutely weird and out of place for at least 5-6 listens, but then it clicked and now I love it...
My "click" was a movie...Melancholia by Lars Von tier (strange how the brain works). It dragged me deep into the mood of the song, and there came the click. (probably it came associating sinister + science-fiction + planet + dystopia)
Of course, if you know the movie, it's better not to stay there too long... :biggrin: :biggrin:
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put in a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
LOL, what?
Seriously, what is the good vocal melody in that song? The verse where James is almost just talking? The chorus which sounds like something that could only come out of the late 1980s?
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put in a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
LOL, what?
Seriously, what is the good vocal melody in that song? The verse where James is almost just talking? The chorus which sounds like something that could only come out of the late 1980s?
Well, us people from the 70s love melodies from the 80s.. :biggrin: :biggrin:
And I LOOOOOOVE that chorus
-
very cool video with JP about his riffs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8-RTJkM_g
Very cool, but did the interviewer electrocute himself before the interview?
:rollin
-
Barstool Warrior's chorus is not memorable?
Feels more like a bridge to me. I like it, but after the second time I can imagine something more bombastic coming, that actually doesn't happen. Not such a big problem because the song is great from start to finish, but still....
-
Barstool Warrior's chorus is not memorable?
Feels more like a bridge to me. I like it, but after the second time I can imagine something more bombastic coming, that actually doesn't happen. Not such a big problem because the song is great from start to finish, but still....
On the first listens, I had the same opinion as yours, Mirror, and I felt a bit frustrated, but now, I think the choruses work pretty well in each song.
B.Lee
-
D/T Track by TAC ;D
Untethered Angel-
WHY the Outcry style first verse and opening to the solo section? I mean. It simply doesn't make any sense. The have to know the fans will make the connection. I just think it completely udermines the track.
That said, the groove going into the second verse is fantastic, as is the second verse itself. It's a good, not great, song, that I wish had an opportunity to stand on its own.
Paralyzed-
I must say when I first heard it, I was quite bummed. The more I listen, the more I like. It's just the beginning up through the first chorus is so plodding. But the song really rescues itself by lightening and opening up in the second half. For such a short song, I can't believe the transformation it makes me feel from beginning to end.
Fall Into The Light-
This is one of my favorites on the album. I love everything about it. When the full band kicks in, it's a total ass kicker. That middle instrumental section is amazing. It is so moving and hypnotic. And that outro. Holy shit JP!
Barstool Warrior
Love the Rush-isms. I think this is a really good song. I like the lyric and feel of it. The JR/JP duet in the middle is really nice. I'm sorry. I hear Gary Moore. I think the vocals production holds the ending back a bit though.
Room 137
So the song has two of my favorite parts of the album...JLB's phychadelic vocal passage and JP neato-keen solo. That's it.
S/N
Amazing track. Love the Rush influence. It's all over it. I couldn't list everything I like about it. The playing is off the charts. It is totally engaging and entrapping. My ONLY issue is the TDEN style outro. WHY? Doing something so blatantly similar to a previous song can be a track killer for me. The fact that it isn't speaks to how amazing the rest of the song is. It's something Untethered Angel couldn't overcome. S/N is one of the best tracks here.
At Wit's End
The most bad ass opening of any DT song. Ever. Holy crap. It's this album's tour de force. Like ariich said, it really reminds me of The Bigger Picture. I mean, doing a side by side, they don't really sound alike, and AWE is so much more active, but by the time it ends, the outro really draws me back to TBP. It just does.
I love the fade out and the demo snippet. I feel like the silence between them goes on a few seconds too long. This should've been the album closer, especially with that fade out. It's not Breaking All Illusions, but this is a TOP 5 MM Era track.
Out Of Reach
Yawn. Not much I can say about it.
Pale Blue Dot
So yesterday, I made the observation that this is The Dance Of Eternity with vocals. Yes, there is a song format, but it's all about the wanking, which I am all for. But I think that's why I've read many comments about not being able to connect to it. It's position on the album and it's length brought certain expectations that are unfortunately not met. The playing is hands down ridiculous. I think once people accept it for what it's not, the better it will age. There's a lot to chew on during this song, but it does feel like a glorified instrumental. It would've been more effective if traded places with AWE.
Viper King
This is fantastic. So much fun. I would love to hear an EP of material in this vain. Not sure we'd all accept an entire album like this. We have Systematic Chaos for that. But I love this, and if Inside Out requires them to produce a bonus track on each album, then I'm all for it.
I really like this album a lot. But like most albums, it has skippable tracks, great tracks, and a lot in the middle that simply need some time. But I do love the vibe on it. The band really sounds infused and happy. I think the sound is great. You can almost hear everything JM is playing. Jordan is a bit back, and it's funny, but I haven't read anyone complaing about his noodling. He's more in a support role, but his sounds are all fantastic.
My main issue with the album are the vocals. I'm reposting this from the other day..
To me, the thing that keeps this album good instead of great is the vocals. And I don't mean James.
So much is made of the vibe of their barn studio. You can hear the fun and comradery through the music. So why were the vocals recorded in Canada?
To me, the vocals are so far separated from the rest of the music. They are lower in the mix than they should be. James is kind of what sets DT apart from the rest of the genre in terms of melody and emotion. The way the vocals were recorded and mixed totally impeded this connection.
Which is a shame because I LOVE some of the things they did vocally. An example would be the psychedelic part in Room 137. I think that's great.
Rankings:
1. At Wit's End
2. Fall Into The Light
3. S/N
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Pale Blue Dot
6. Viper King
7. Untethered Angel
8. Paralyzed
9. Room 137
10. Out Of Reach
-
For such a grandiose topic, DT could pull a Rush and begin the next album with Pale Blue Dot: Book Two. Similar subject matter even.
-
For such a grandiose topic, DT could pull a Rush and begin the next album with Pale Blue Dot: Book Two.
:clap:
:lol
-
So it seems Out Of Reach ends up pretty underrated. Sure it lacks some guitar solo in the end but the arrangement of it something DT hasn't done much. I especially love James' vocal style on it.
-
No complaints vocally on it, Serox. Honestly, it's all the song has going for it.
-
I don't get the view that there is a lack of memorable vocal melodies in this album. UA 2nd verse and prechorus? BW chorus? Paralyzed verse? Beatles-esque portion of R137? S2n chorus? AWE chorus? AWE pre-chorus before the 2nd chorus? AWE outro? Out of Reach? VK chorus?
People put in a pedestal a song like LtL which has no good vocal melody, and then complain lack of vocal melody on this album which has lots of them.
LOL, what?
Seriously, what is the good vocal melody in that song? The verse where James is almost just talking? The chorus which sounds like something that could only come out of the late 1980s?
Pretty much all of it. It is one of the band's most popular songs for over 25 years now for a reason. :)
My main issue with the album are the vocals.
I agree, but for a different reason. It feels like they wrote some vocal melodies that were not only less strenuous for JLB in the studio, but will be easier for him to sing live, but the problem is that some of these choruses sound like the hook isn't quite there. Some of them are good, but the songs I am having trouble connecting with thus far are lacking in the vocal melodies department (which is more of an indictment of the written vocal melody than it is of JLB's vocals).
-
I need to stop listening to At wits end. I'm gonna wear it out :lol
-
I need to stop listening to At wits end. I'm gonna wear it out :lol
Me too
-
After the instrumental break of Barstool Warrior the bridge starting with James' intense vocals something beautiful DT has ever done.
-
So, I now have a CD-length playlist called DreaMM Theater of Post-Portnoy DT songs. :lol
2 ADTOE + 1 DT + 3 TA + 3 D/T songs.
-
After the second listening, I'm feeling something's amiss... I mean, I like all about the approach: the production is cool, them holing up together for "summer camp" and jamming it out was a great idea and it shows, the songs have many nice twists and turns without never being bloated, but.... where are the choruses?
I mean, it's not that DT has to write catchy choruses like if they were a power metal band, but still I'm not totally sold on the choruses, they seem so weak or even absent, because sometimes they just feel like a bridge (Barstool Warrior and Room 137 for example). I have to wait until S2N to hear a good chorus, and yet it's still far from their best ones.... without going too far back in time, there's nothing like the chorus for Behind the Veil here that immediately stands out (even though At Wit's End has a quite cool and dramatic chorus).
Maybe with future listenings the songs will click with me, but even though I like the approach and the occasional great moment here and there (the mellow part in Fall Into the Light, the intro to Barstool Warrior, most if not everything about At Wit's End), I'm not sold yet on the choruses. I hope "yet" is the keyword here, it would feel weird to have an album where I basically applaud every stlistic choice they've made (the variety, the novelty, many of the ideas heard, the production as I said), but fail to appreciate truly the songs because of a lack of climaxes in the choruses.
I have to agree with pretty much everything you said. For me personally, the choruses are the weakest part of this album. S2N is also my favorite chorus on the album, and BTV is a perfect example of one of their better more recent choruses. The first time I heard that song, I was in love with the hook. Even the chorus on a song like The Enemy Inside drew me in.
It just seems like everything else is in place - from the mix of the album, to JP's excellent guitar work, and MM and JM sounding better than ever. I feel like nearly every song deserves a better chorus, and that would propel this album to a new level.
I'm glad many people are digging this album though. It makes me really happy to see all of the praise. I just wish I had that same magical feeling I had when listening to ADToE for the first time - playing the album over and over and over again for a full 2 years after its release. I just don't have the excitement to revisit any of the songs, aside from S2N.
That said it is still a solid album. When I am in the mood for it, I really enjoy it.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
I don't disagree with this... at all.
D/T Track by TAC ;D
TL;DR: It all sounds like Gary Moore.
:P
-
So, I now have a CD-length playlist called DreaMM Theater of Post-Portnoy DT songs. :lol
2 ADTOE + 1 DT + 3 TA + 3 D/T songs.
What are the tracks?
-
If he fills up a CD with only 9 songs, I'm quite confident the DT track is Illumination Theory.
-
"wow"
-
Pale Blue Dot is like The Dance Of Eternity with words. There's some crazy ass playing, but as a song, it just seems to lack the glue to hold it all together.
tbh I kinda agree with your assessment of PBD (at least for the middle section), but TDoE (unbelievably) has a really tight knit structure. There are four main sections: that 30 second-ish intro; the "A-section", which is defined by loads of time-signature changes and uses that scalar riff at the beginning as kind of the "main theme" of that section; the "B-Section" which is defined by being entirely in 4/4 (or cut time, depending on what you look at, I'd personally argue 4/4 tho); and a return to that A-section at the end (which again, uses that scalar riff and has loads of time-signature changes). There's a lot of tension built up by all the time-signature changes in the A-section, which gets released in the B-section with its stable 4/4 time-signature.
PBD imo either needs to develop the ideas it has in the second half of that middle-section (5:30-6:30) more, replace everything starting from that 1-bar slow down riff with stuff based on the ideas introduced in the beginning, or just remove everything from that point to when the main riff comes back in. The only thing that section has anchoring it down is one reprise of one riff. There's sooooo much new stuff being introduced there and imo it's just not being developed.
-
D/T Track by TAC ;D
TL;DR: It all sounds like Gary Moore.
:P
Hah! When JP goes for those deep toned soulful notes it does! To me only apparently. :lol
-
"wow"
(https://cdn.empireonline.com/jpg/80/0/0/180/500/aspectfit/0/0/0/0/0/0/t/people/887/profiles/j7oYgvfDiO34VcFdSB7GhM2CSle.jpg)
-
How on earth did that guy get famous?
-
"wow"
(https://cdn.empireonline.com/jpg/80/0/0/180/500/aspectfit/0/0/0/0/0/0/t/people/887/profiles/j7oYgvfDiO34VcFdSB7GhM2CSle.jpg)
Yep :lol
Btw I actually missed that Mangini contributed with lyrics for this album, that's cool!
-
I need to stop listening to At wits end. I'm gonna wear it out :lol
Me too
Yep. Same here.
-
Minority opinion, it seems, but I'm enjoying Paralyzed, Room 137, Out of Reach, and Viper King more than Pale Blue Dot, S2N, and Fall Into the Light.
Not that those songs are disappointing in any way—and PBD especially has more room to grow on me—I just think the band really nailed the shorter, more accessible songs on this album.
-
The first verse of Barstool Warrior reminds me of:
"Brace yourself my brother
I have breaking news"
-
Honestly the only song that I’ve yet to reallly ‘connect’ with is Room 137. I think it has some cool sections but as a whole It’s yet to ‘grab’ me.
But that’s not to say I’m not enjoying the :censored out of this album because I am. I continue to dig this album big time.
-
Fall Into The Light-
This is one of my favorites on the album. I love everything about it. When the full band kicks in, it's a total ass kicker. That middle instrumental section is amazing. It is so moving and hypnotic. And that outro. Holy shit JP!
S/N
Amazing track. Love the Rush influence. It's all over it. I couldn't list everything I like about it. The playing is off the charts. It is totally engaging and entrapping. My ONLY issue is the TDEN style outro. WHY? Doing something so blatantly similar to a previous song can be a track killer for me. The fact that it isn't speaks to how amazing the rest of the song is. It's something Untethered Angel couldn't overcome. S/N is one of the best tracks here.
Viper King
This is fantastic. So much fun. I would love to hear an EP of material in this vain. Not sure we'd all accept an entire album like this. We have Systematic Chaos for that. But I love this, and if Inside Out requires them to produce a bonus track on each album, then I'm all for it.
TAC :metal
love Viper King, I can picture Satriani jamming to this, maybe another G3 down the road, the other 2 tracks you described are my fav's Fall Into the Light and of course the Rush vibe on S2N, Paralyzed is growing on me as well. I give this album 9 out of 10, best DT album in the Mangini era, well done ;D
-
Listened to most of the album once thru. Loving it, sounds fresh, inspired, makes you want to go back and listen again. S2N, wow, one of my favorites right away. Easily their best since ADTOE.
-
Minority opinion but I think the Owen Wilson cameo in S2N is the most memorable moment on the album. Like they've been hinting at it in Octavarium already!
-
Minority opinion but I think the Owen Wilson cameo in S2N is the most memorable moment on the album. Like they've been hinting at it in Octavarium already!
???
-
The first verse of Barstool Warrior reminds me of:
"Brace yourself my brother
I have breaking news"
THAT's what it is! I've been thinking...where have I heard this verse melody before? Granted, it's only 2 or 3 notes but still very similar. Not a bad thing as I like both verses
-
After two listens, this album really clicked with me! I love Room 137, and by no means is this a weak link on the album.
It seems most people are partial to AWE, which is a great track but I'm more partial to BW, FITL, S2N, and Pale Blue Dot. I like the dark vibe of PBD and the drumming and riffing are just earthshaking and insane, I love it! It almost feels like flying through an asteroid field at warp speed and still trying to avoid them. :metal
I like the way the vocals are mixed in the album. Some have said they are a bit buried, but they sound well balanced and very present to me. James is excellent on this album once again. :tup
Viper King is a rockin fun track and closes this album on a lighter note, I don't see why this is just a bonus track. I wish DT would write more songs like this, it has a great "make you feel good" vibe and the musicianship is still crazy good.
This album should be played on a quality stereo system with high end tower speakers at very high volume levels.
-
It might be just me, but I feel like the first verse of BW was played too Metal-ish by JM and MM, a more laid back approach could’ve been a better fit. But that’s just a small section in an excellent song, so no big deal :tup
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
I guess I will wait till I get my CD and bluray to listen and compare but the version on Amazon Music sounds pretty good and doesn't feel like its muddy or overcompressed. ADTOE actually doesn't sound too bad when I listen on my PC with my audio gear. (HD 6xx)
-
I personally find some of these vocal melodies underwhelming because The Astonishing had such truly great and memorable ones.
But otherwise, this record just kicked SoA's ass for me at least 10 times.
-
S2N should be called Wow!
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
I don’t think a millisecond of an audio clip qualifies as “obsession”.
-
I gotta admit I'm a sucker for Petrucci's tasty melodic solos and this album is full of them! Before D/T the solos in Count of Tuscany, Best of Times and Illumination Theory were that gave me the most pleasure, but now they have been rivaled by Fall Into the Light, (especially) Barstool Warrior, At Wit's End and Out of Reach! Damn!
I don't understand why people are so underwhelmed by PBD. It's a badass, complex and IMO delivers it's message handsomely. Also I think moany people pass by Out of Reach just 'cause it's a ballad. But man it's a beautiful one!
I'm just so happy with the album. I can sit and jam with my eyes closed, suck in all the melodies and grin from ear to ear. Heartfelt thanks to DT guys :heart
-
The awesome production sets the table for the overall listening experience. Over the years I've had so
many discussions with other music fanatics--many on mp.com about how important the sonic value of
an album is. Imagine looking at the Mona Lisa through a muddy glass window. If you doubt me, as a
test, grab ADToE (the cd version) and spin a tune from it. Then put on any song from D/T and hear the
clarity and crispness gobsmack you. So the production gets an A from me and I hope like hell they use
the same people and approach on the next one.
I am afraid I cannot agree:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159299
Looks like the newest album ties for having the lowest score to date on the dynamic range scale, with a range of 06, which is considered poor:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=
I am still enjoying the new album quite a bit after a few listens, but I am already getting that "I wish it sounded better" feeling. I rarely listen to A Dramatic Turn of Events anymore because of how muddy that one is.
I guess I will wait till I get my CD and bluray to listen and compare but the version on Amazon Music sounds pretty good and doesn't feel like its muddy or overcompressed. ADTOE actually doesn't sound too bad when I listen on my PC with my audio gear. (HD 6xx)
I’m with emtee on this one Kev. I think this album sounds great. I’ve listened to it in three different environments now on three different delivery systems and it sounds awesome to me.
-
…..
fluojn, you need to post more.
-
My First impressions of the album are quite positive. At Wit's End is a real gem, near-perfect song, and the best one in the album. S2N is a blast; the song Systematic Chaos desperately tried to create but never could. Viper King is incredible too and I hope they continue to experiment on songs like that, Barstool Warrior really got me too. Room 137 and Pale Blue dot are a bit harder to get into but I don't consider them bad songs per se. A great, heavy record that I'll be blasting a lot these days. Good!
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
I don't know exactly but the Loudwire guy, who's dumb as bricks, asked JP playfully denied knowledge of it. The dude, who has the humor of Rachel Meadow, didn't catch that and kept asking people in the studio if he had imagined it until JP had to out and tell him that he's playing with him heh
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
I don’t think a millisecond of an audio clip qualifies as “obsession”.
:lol
-
For the life of me, I can't hear the "Wow" everyone is talking about.
-
For the life of me, I can't hear the "Wow" everyone is talking about.
It’s really quiet, during a second-long break around the 4 minute mark. Gotta turn it up
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
I don’t think a millisecond of an audio clip qualifies as “obsession”.
It's on Octavarium too. That's why I ask.
-
It's on Octavarium too. That's why I ask.
Is it? Where?
As to why, maybe it's just a band goof...maybe an inside joke among the band members, or maybe they just want to confuse us. They know how nitpicky we get...we have previous of superanalyzing millisecond bits of music. See also "People just don't have the *time* for music anymore..."
-
It's on Octavarium too. That's why I ask.
Is it? Where?
As to why, maybe it's just a band goof...maybe an inside joke among the band members, or maybe they just want to confuse us. They know how nitpicky we get...we have previous of superanalyzing millisecond bits of music. See also "People just don't have the *time* for music anymore..."
It's on Full Circle section if I am not mistaken... "Jack the ripper Owens Wilson Phillips and my supper's ready..."
-
Decent album. Not bad, but far from great.
-
Anybody knows why DT's obsession about Owen Wilson?
I don’t think a millisecond of an audio clip qualifies as “obsession”.
It's on Octavarium too. That's why I ask.
It's just a fun thing they added, nothing more. We shoulnd't read too much into everything all the time.
-
What is anyone's obsession with Owen Wilson. Better stated.. how does this talentless hack keep getting jobs?
-
What is anyone's obsession with Owen Wilson. Better stated.. how does this talentless hack keep getting jobs?
Answer is the Wes Anderson.
-
For such a grandiose topic, DT could pull a Rush and begin the next album with Pale Blue Dot: Book Two.
:clap:
:lol
hell yeah, and in 2023 it could be so. :tup
-
For such a grandiose topic, DT could pull a Rush and begin the next album with Pale Blue Dot: Book Two.
:clap:
:lol
hell yeah, and in 2023 it could be so. :tup
:caffeine:
-
Pale Blue Dot: Book Two, Electric Boogaloo
What is anyone's obsession with Owen Wilson. Better stated.. how does this talentless hack keep getting jobs?
Answer is the Wes Anderson.
The Royal Tenebaums is somehow one of the worst movies I've ever seen (and I use that term loosely since I stopped watching it halfway through, something I've done less than 5 times in my life) and at the same time the only performance by Ben Stiller I've ever really enjoyed.
-
Literally one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
-
I don't get it, I have no way to personally relate to Barstool Warrior, yet it still gets me choked up every time so far!
Fuckin bravo DT.
-
I’m with emtee on this one Kev. I think this album sounds great. I’ve listened to it in three different environments now on three different delivery systems and it sounds awesome to me.
Damn it, Gary! :facepalm: :lol
JK, I hear ya. Even though there are times I wish it sounded better, I don't dislike the sound of it per se, if that makes sense.
-
Man, I am effing obsessed with Bar Stool Warrior. I think it's one of DT's best songs in their entire discography.
-
Man, I am effing obsessed with Bar Stool Warrior. I think it's one of DT's best songs in their entire discography.
It's pretty awesome! I like it more than At Wits End.
-
I'm soooooo pissed off.
I put off the preorder long enough....that the deluxe edition was sold out by the time I got around to it.
So I ordered the regular version from Amazon.....................................who isn't shipping it til March 1st. >:( >:( >:( >:( :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored
EDIT - speaking of which. Did anyone buy an extra that they are willing to part with?
Not pissed. but slightly annoyed. Ordered from Amazon because I was too lazy to drive an hour to one of the few independent records stores left in this area. Amazon apparently has decided not to carry the 4-disc version and farmed it out to a third party. Lesson learned.
-
Weighing in on the sound quality;
It does sound a bit muddy in places to me, and there are moments where I find myself thinking, "This part is really good. I wish it was clearer".
That said, for the most part I find the mix/master to be fine. Certainly much better than the self titled.
-
Have one general listen under my belt. Easily the best album from this era, musically and sonically. I should have a good focused listen tomorrow. Fall Into The Light is the track that really grabbed me on the first run though.
Also, it's amazing what the drums can sound like when they actually let Mike set up the mics on his own kit. I saw a quote from him somewhere where this was the first time he actually was able to participate as a full member in the songwriting and such. He mentioned that he was even able to mic his own drums for the first time. Crazy, they waited 4 albums to let him be him. His drums sound awesome on this.
-
I always get mine from the local record store, 30 mile round trip. The owner ordered me a copy without me having to ask. It arrived on time. I'll never go through Amazon unless I'm on a safari down in South America.
-
I always get mine from the local record store, 30 mile round trip. The owner ordered me a copy without me having to ask. It arrived on time. I'll never go through Amazon unless I'm on a safari down in South America.
Usually do that myself, (70 mile round trip for me) but I got lazy this time. Didn't want to chance that they didn't have the deluxe edition and buy the single CD in a weak moment. Lesson learned.
-
Alright, after multiple listens, this album cracked top 5 for me, and I think that’s where it will stay.
1) SFAM
2) SDOIT
3) Awake
4) I&W
5) D/T
Bartstool Warrior is starting to grow on me (still my least favorite of the album). Out of Reach is pretty good. Paralyzed is pretty solid. I love the rest of the songs.
-
I always get mine from the local record store, 30 mile round trip.
Usually do that myself, (70 mile round trip for me) but I got lazy this time.
Dang! Your definition of laziness is way different than mine! If my wife was on fire, I'd bitch and moan about driving that far for a fire extinguisher.
-
I can't say I'm surprised this album turned out so well. These guys aren't stupid, and they knew 'The Astonishing" was very polarizing, so they were compelled to make up for it.
The bonus track is probably the most surprising track on the album for me. Rhythmically, it sounds like something Extreme would have done, then the swinging groove of the chorus reminds me of "Radar Love". I have to say, James sounds very odd on this track through the verses, though.
-
Man, I am effing obsessed with Bar Stool Warrior. I think it's one of DT's best songs in their entire discography.
It's pretty awesome! I like it more than At Wits End.
Agreed. Fuckin brings the feels :blush
-
The only thing that bothers me about this album is Out of Reach. Not in a bad way - I think it is simply gorgeous. But if it had one more repeat of that incredible chorus towards the end, it would take it to the next level. What is there in this track though, is simply stunning...
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
-
I don't know about that but where did you find the instrumental version? A Japanese import?
-
I don't know about that but where did you find the instrumental version? A Japanese import?
Limited Edition Deluxe Art Book (CD+Bonus Track, Instrumental CD + DVD + BD with the high def tracks and Videos for all songs)
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
Not sure about the frequency but when James says "warped inside never ending tide.....") there is about 2 beats then are about 6-8 taps or knocks that sound like a click track reverb (maybe James's click track?) that start at 5:57 and finish at 6:02.
-
I always get mine from the local record store, 30 mile round trip.
Usually do that myself, (70 mile round trip for me) but I got lazy this time.
Dang! Your definition of laziness is way different than mine! If my wife was on fire, I'd bitch and moan about driving that far for a fire extinguisher.
:lol :lol :lol
-
OK, this could open a can of worms, but, does any else hear a "beep" (reminds me of a defibrillator) during 4:09 in Barstool Warrior, in the left channel?
-
OK, this could open a can of worms, but, does any else hear a "beep" (reminds me of a defibrillator) during 4:09 in Barstool Warrior, in the left channel?
Nope.
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
Not sure about the frequency but when James says "warped inside never ending tide.....") there is about 2 beats then are about 6-8 taps or knocks that sound like a click track reverb (maybe James's click track?) that start at 5:57 and finish at 6:02.
Is it on the instrumental version?
-
It's been nice to read everyone's opinions here, and I have to say, it seems pretty positive for most. I think DT definitely hit this one out of the park. I've really been enjoying this album a lot, and I think I might like it more than DT12. I think we all know why The Astonishing failed to capture the fans' attention world-wide - the acronym did not have "DT" in the title (we've got ADTOE, DT12, and now D/T).
All joking aside, this album has some TASTY instrumental performances across the board, and it's nice to hear JMX come out and shine, especially in S2N (which would make a killer show-opener). Vocally speaking, there are some good moments here and there, but it's all still taking time to sink in, but I've caught myself humming the chorus to UA here and there (though it was the first single, so that probably helps it).
BW, AWE and PBD are definite stand-out tracks, and I would love to see them play all three live. I have a feeling, however, that only about half of the album will get played live on this leg of the tour. I remember reading that the band was considering rotating setlists again, so they may swap a few new songs on A/B nights like Rush has done in the past. I could see BW and S2N swapping spots as they are similar lengths. Same with AWE and PBD.
As fun as "Viper King" is, I'm not sure if it'll get played, at least at first, but it IS a great track, and I like it's placement as a bonus track, though it definitely could fit in the middle of the album and still feel at home.
And lastly, the one (new) song I hadn't mentioned yet, "Out Of Reach", is probably one of the band's shortest, but it's got a lot of power, and that guitar solo in the first half is magical. This is a really great ballad, and I'd love to see them pull this one out live this year (since they typically only play new ballads on that album's tour, and rarely bring them back unless they're for an anniversary).
Overall, this is a great return to form for the band as a whole, and I hope the numbers for the live shows prove just how strong this album is and that fans will come out in droves to see them play the new material in addition to SFAM!
-Marc.
-
To me, the band returned to form on ADTOE and haven’t looked back.
-
^ This
-
OK, this could open a can of worms, but, does any else hear a "beep" (reminds me of a defibrillator) during 4:09 in Barstool Warrior, in the left channel?
I just checked. Yes, I heard it.
-
I said I was gonna wait for an official streaming but I then I said Fuck It and bought the album yesterday. The only song I heard before was Untethered Angels and I only watched that video twice. Nothing really jumped out at me first and it sounded like Ruddess was kind of underutilized (he sounds almost Myungish in the mix at times) but the songs are steadily growing on Herrick.
It's NEW Dream Theater songs so there's always an high excitement level for me to hear LaBrie singing on new stuff. We'll see how it goes.
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
Not sure about the frequency but when James says "warped inside never ending tide.....") there is about 2 beats then are about 6-8 taps or knocks that sound like a click track reverb (maybe James's click track?) that start at 5:57 and finish at 6:02.
Is it on the instrumental version?
No definitely not on the instrumental version that's why I ruled out click track through pickups. I'm surprised no one else can hear it, I showed my wife who didn't hear it but after a few listens she did. I cant hear it through spotify but thats probably because of the poor sample rate. I beleive the instrumental CD was remixed which leads me to believe its a processing effect through JLBs vocals.
-
My apologies if this has already been talked about or a stupid question, but is the man in Barstool Warrior the woman's abuser or are they two unrelated people?
-
My apologies if this has already been talked about or a stupid question, but is the man in Barstool Warrior the woman's abuser or are they two unrelated people?
Funny I came to post about this!
JP said in his Loudwire interview that there's two different stories/people, a "drunk townie" and a lady in an abusive relationship, for the first and second verses respectively. I initially thought the woman was the man's wife or something, suffering from his way of life.
-
The lightbulb went on for Room 137. That riff is sick and Mangini's drumming is incredible. :metal :metal
-
The lightbulb went on for Room 137. That riff is sick and Mangini's drumming is incredible. :metal :metal
Lucky! I don't even think I have a socket to hold a lightbulb for that song.
But I've been keeping it in rotation because damnit, I want to like it!
-
This album is doubly exciting personally since it's not just a new release, it's the first new DT release since I became a fan three years ago with the song "Octavarium". I pre-ordered the digipak edition with the bonus track from Wal-Mart and have been listening to it every available chance since yesterday. My thoughts so far:
1. Fall Into The Light is on par with Breaking All Illusions
2. Untethered Angel sounds like it's from DT12.
3. The entire album is Mangini's best drum work to date.
4. The "Wow" in S2N is this the first spoken word sample since ADTOE unless I'm forgetting one.
YMMV.
-
1. Fall Into The Light is on par with Breaking All Illusions
2. Untethered Angel sounds like it's from DT12.
3. The entire album is Mangini's best drum work to date.
4. The "Wow" in S2N is this the first spoken word sample since ADTOE unless I'm forgetting one.
In a survey format :D :
1. Strongly Disagree.
2. Disagree.
3. Strongly Agree.
4. Agree.
-
So, I now have a CD-length playlist called DreaMM Theater of Post-Portnoy DT songs. :lol
2 ADTOE + 1 DT + 3 TA + 3 D/T songs.
What are the tracks?
BITS
TGOM
R137
AWE
Chosen
S2n
ONW
BAI
IT
I've also been toying around with D/T and this sequence works better for my taste
PBD
Paralyzed
FitL
UA
R137
BW
S2n
Out of Reach
AWE
VK
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
Not sure about the frequency but when James says "warped inside never ending tide.....") there is about 2 beats then are about 6-8 taps or knocks that sound like a click track reverb (maybe James's click track?) that start at 5:57 and finish at 6:02.
Is it on the instrumental version?
No definitely not on the instrumental version that's why I ruled out click track through pickups. I'm surprised no one else can hear it, I showed my wife who didn't hear it but after a few listens she did. I cant hear it through spotify but thats probably because of the poor sample rate. I beleive the instrumental CD was remixed which leads me to believe its a processing effect through JLBs vocals.
Just tried twice. Couldn't hear it on the first attempt, clear as anything on the second once my ears had acclimatised. Almost sounds like someone tapping on a hollow piece of wood. Listening to the CD rip on a pair of Beyerdynamic DT(!) 990 Pros.
-
Well I caved and had to listen to the album via youtube, through my phone, through my car speakers while driving around so I could hear it in decent quality and...
holy shit. It's safe to say this is the best album since ADTOE (my favorite) but this may be their best album since, I don't know, I don't really rank albums but let's just say this is fresh, creative, rocking, melodic, and a full band effort. Possibly the biggest band effort in their whole catalog. Definitely a top 5 album for me.
-
At first, I'll admit, I wasn't sure I would like this album. I thought TA was brilliant and one of DT's strongest releases in a while, and a large part of that was due to its strong musical themes and the fact it was an epic concept album, which is where DT is known to shine. Looking at the tracklist and song lengths, I saw that DOT was not a concept album and had no epics. I was a little worried they'd release another album of the caliber of, say, DT12. (No offense to anyone who is a DT12 fan, I just thought it was the weakest release since possibly Octavarium or FII.) I absorbed the singles as they were released and felt somewhat disappointed, particularly by "Untethered Angel" and "Paralyzed." ("Fall into the Light" at least had that nice atmospheric build-up section.)
I just listened to the entire album the whole way through while doing some chores, and the scales have fallen from my eyes! I think this is a original, fun album that breaks away from the standard DT album formula with something truly fresh. It's not SFAM or TA, but it doesn't seem fair to compare it to those albums. It's a different kind of DT project that we aren't used to seeing and should be judged on how well it accomplishes its own creative task. I think DOT is what DT12 tried to be: a collection of short, lively songs that represents what Dream Theater is all about in a concise, punctuated fashion. And the album accomplishes this task so effectively. I found myself involuntarily dancing and popping around while I was doing my chores listening to this thing.
But who knows, it's only one listen. I'm eager to run through it again tomorrow. Anyway, anyone seeing DT in Nashville in April that wants to meet up?
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Can you give more details? What is the frequency? Which kind of tapping does it sound like? The only beats I hear appear to be from the drums.
Not sure about the frequency but when James says "warped inside never ending tide.....") there is about 2 beats then are about 6-8 taps or knocks that sound like a click track reverb (maybe James's click track?) that start at 5:57 and finish at 6:02.
Is it on the instrumental version?
No definitely not on the instrumental version that's why I ruled out click track through pickups. I'm surprised no one else can hear it, I showed my wife who didn't hear it but after a few listens she did. I cant hear it through spotify but thats probably because of the poor sample rate. I beleive the instrumental CD was remixed which leads me to believe its a processing effect through JLBs vocals.
Just tried twice. Couldn't hear it on the first attempt, clear as anything on the second once my ears had acclimatised. Almost sounds like someone tapping on a hollow piece of wood. Listening to the CD rip on a pair of Beyerdynamic DT(!) 990 Pros.
I thought I was going crazy. So the question is, if the sound isn't present in the instrumental version, what the hell is it? Its either the click track through the pickups, a "compounding" knock that replicates itself on the vocal echo/reverb or its Mike Mangini hitting some type of drum or shaker/tube/wooden instrument. Weird, its all I hear now (the reason I think its a click track is because when I record, mine sounds exactly the same and my guitar has picked it up before when recording)
-
I think the only thing I have to say against the album is that the song order could have been better, it shows how good it is!
Awe is the album closer to me
Pbd could have been the opener
Viper king is so great I want it 3 times on the album :D
-
Awe is the album closer to me
Pbd could have been the opener
Yep, it's the only gripe I have with the album : AWE could have been the closer, aptly because the last words are "Don't leave me now" and the fading is a gorgeous way to end the album (even if there's the little in-studio reprise at the end).
-
I also love DT's song order throughout their career. It's been clever but this album fails for that matter. Excluding Viper King since it's a bonus track Pale Blue Dot doesn't give me the closer vibe. This song has its own issue about being ended. It feels so uncompleted.
-
I have been on the fence with DT basically since Portnoy left, but I really enjoy this. Great album!
-
holy shit. It's safe to say this is the best album since ADTOE (my favorite) but this may be their best album since, I don't know, I don't really rank albums but let's just say this is fresh, creative, rocking, melodic, and a full band effort. Possibly the biggest band effort in their whole catalog. Definitely a top 5 album for me.
ADTOE is my second favorite after SFAM, but I share your sentiment.
One thing is album does that I sorely missed on ADTOE was that cool lyrical change-up for the final chorus. Almost every song on this album has some wording changes for the final chorus, something that's been missing from ADTOE & the self-titled.
A prime example of a song that sorely missed that gimmick is Bridges in The Sky, it paints a picture and takes you on this wonderful journey for the first and second verses and the choruses then after the instrumental section the same chorus comes back with no resolve to the journey. It needed a change in the "At last the time has come" part which worked so perfectly the first time but lands flat when repeated in the conclusion.
-
About the album cover, I didn't like it at first but it looks cool on the actual cd packaging. Does anyone know how the cover ties in with the theme of the album or what song it may come closest to?
I think the skull would look really cool if it was glowing green from radio active fallout, with the robots left over to run the world. :lol
-
I've been thinking about that and getting no where, but then again there's still a couple of songs that I don't fully understand their subject. Namely At Paralyzed, Wit's End, S2N and Fall into The Light.
-
I've been thinking about that and getting no where, but then again there's still a couple of songs that I don't fully understand their subject. Namely At Paralyzed, Wit's End, S2N and Fall into The Light.
If I remember correctly, John confirmed that S2N is about the idea of not losing yourself (the "signal") in the chaos of the world (the "noise"), while James confirmed that Wit's End is about an abusive relationship & its damaging effects on the woman being abused.
I don't quite remember if they said what Paralyzed & Fall Into The Light were about though.
-
I just finished my first listen to this album. Well, up to Out of Reach was in the car, the rest on my PC. Even though it was only a single listen, I was actually very impressed. I had ZERO expectations for this and the first three songs didn't rock me. The opener works very well actually and I like it more now I have the album.
Paralyzed sounds fucking great and heavy in the car, that's a solid tune. Fall Into the Light I just don't get. The structure is all over the place and the song itself seems very incohesive. Maybe more listens will fix that. The first minute is killer. Barstool Warrior I liked too. Has that Rush feel DT like to go for and even sounded a bit old school DT at times to me. Room 137 is weird and original as fuck. Can't remember much from it yet but kudos for the band doing something different.
S2N might be my fav on first listen. Heavy, great melodic chorus, JP putting in one amazing solo and really just the band killing it on all fronts. Love this one. TDEN ending made me laugh, but I dig it. At Wit's End is also probably going to be a fav. Can't remember much, but the ending is brilliant. Out of Reach seems like a great ballad with a nice structure. Pale Blue Dot seems to deliver the goods but I need to crank this one in the car. Viper King made me laugh, thank fuck this is a bonus track. I'm kind of wishing I got the standard edition without this song.
I'll listen to this one a bit. The Astonishing was one of the biggest pieces of shit that one of my favourite bands has dished up and I almost disowned DT because of it. It still hurts. Having no expectations for this one will help but this is a heavy ass fucking cool album. You know what it seems like that I like? It's the band doing whatever they feel and not doing music that people expect. Nothing over 10 minutes, no endless Outcry style wanking, no piano based puke inducing ballads, original pieces and just doing things a bit different. Not following any structures or stereotypes here and the band just being creative without limits.
I could be wrong also, but I think At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot should swap places, seems obvious.
-
Just dropping by to say I’m loving this album! Probably the best post-Portnoy album in my possibly unpopular opinion.
-
The part at 4:39 in Fall Into the Light, during the slow break, when the guitar kicks in reprising in an heavier way the mellow theme of the section :metal
Everyone live should sing along to this!!!
-
Just dropping by to say I’m loving this album! Probably the best post-Portnoy album in my possibly unpopular opinion.
My gut feeling tells me that this seems to be the prevailing consensus among the fanbase now. :D
I listened to the album some more, and Pale Blue Dot is slowly starting to sink in. I like it now, though it still remains among my least favorites from the album. I'm also warming up to Untethered Angel, and it's nowhere near as bad as I first thought.
The songwriting has taken such a massive leap forward on this album! They should do the "DT-bootcamp" writing/recording sessions for future albums as well, if the results are this good!
-
Pale Blue Dot sounds like the band just took all the noodling from the individual songs and shoved it all into the album closer.
-
Pale Blue Dot sounds like the band just took all the noodling from the individual songs and shoved it all into the album closer.
I have a hard time disliking the song because Carl Sagan.
-
Okay, this album is really growing on me now. Originally I thought "well that was good, but maybe I overhyped myself a little", but now just two days later & I fuckin' love this thing. :metal
(re: PBD discussion) I enjoy Pale Blue Dot as a song, but I'm finding it's the one track that I can never remember what it sounds like unless I'm actually listening to it. Maybe it's because it's unmemorable, but I wouldn't be surprised if I found out it was just because all the shredding & solos needed more time to sink in. :lol
-
Pale Blue Dot to me has echoes of Outcry, from the beginning using a similar chord progression, to the insane instrumental break in the middle.
-
I think Pale Blue Dot is great, I love the chaotic structure of it.
-
I think the only thing I have to say against the album is that the song order could have been better, it shows how good it is!
Awe is the album closer to me
Pbd could have been the opener
Viper king is so great I want it 3 times on the album :D
Yeah reminds me of Awake in that the first 3 songs are underwhelming. Well, that doesn’t sound right - I just mean not starting with the strongest songs.
-
I've had a good few days to spend listening to this album, and I'm really enjoying it. When I first listened to it as a whole, I thought "ok, this will take some getting used to". Room 137 didn't overly excite me, and there seemed to be a few areas which were all over the place. Now, after only a few days, I think it's excellent. AWE is brilliant, as is BW and OOR is beautiful (again, would've loved that insane chorus one more time!). FITL I still love, ditto for paralysed, but I'm a little different to others and really clicking with PBD. I really think the issue with this one, was as someone already mentioned - the subject matter and knowledge of the song length and album closer, had people having certain expectations. Now we can listen to it and know what to expect, I think it will really grow in time for many. Very, very solid album :metal
-
Just got back last night from a week away. Finally, decent Wi-fi! Anyway, I’m really really enjoying the new album. It feels fresh and vibrant. The approach to the writing and recording progress has really paid off.
The production is fantastic. Every instrument is clear, and the drums sound massive. It feels as if you’re sitting in the middle of MM’s kit. Lots of cymbals and hi-hats that were previously getting buried in the mix.
To me, AWE is a thing of brilliance. The intro is chaotic and ferocious along with the pre-verse riff. The chorus is just wonderful, and that melodic solo outro is just pure magic. I must have heard it about 10 times now, and each time it brings a lump to the throat. What a big baby I am, but this in a nutshell is why DT is my favourite band: it’s the balance of aggression, technical virtuosity, but still having the ability to connect at the fundamental, emotional level.
Bravo DT, I take my hat off to you.
-
Just got back last night from a week away. Finally, decent Wi-fi! Anyway, I’m really really enjoying the new album. It feels fresh and vibrant. The approach to the writing and recording progress has really paid off.
The production is fantastic. Every instrument is clear, and the drums sound massive. It feels as if you’re sitting in the middle of MM’s kit. Lots of cymbals and hi-hats that were previously getting buried in the mix.
To me, AWE is a thing of brilliance. The intro is chaotic and ferocious along with the pre-verse riff. The chorus is just wonderful, and that melodic solo outro is just pure magic. I must have heard it about 10 times now, and each time it brings a lump to the throat. What a big baby I am, but this in a nutshell is why DT is my favourite band: it’s the balance of aggression, technical virtuosity, but still having the ability to connect at the fundamental, emotional level.
Bravo DT, I take my hat off to you.
Exactly my thoughts in a nutshell. Thanks for reading my mind. :biggrin: I personally crack up at the mellow section in FITL : the keyboard melody just after the clean guitar gets me everytime. Geez…
B.Lee
-
Yeah reminds me of Awake in that the first 3 songs are underwhelming. Well, that doesn’t sound right
It certainly does to me. I used to start playthroughs of Awake with track 4 for years, never really warmed to the first three tracks.
-
The part at 4:39 in Fall Into the Light, during the slow break, when the guitar kicks in reprising in an heavier way the mellow theme of the section :metal
Everyone live should sing along to this!!!
One of my favorite moments on the album! So melodic and powerful.
-
Mike, for me personally, this is THE best Dream Theater album in decade's. The whole album does have a new vibe, but a much needed one. I can honestly say that there are no songs which will be put on the back burner, I have listened for two solid days, and every song on the album gives me something new to hook onto every time I hear it.
It is plain to see that the writing process and recording in "The Barn" was an inspired choice, and JP has created a masterful mix.
Being a fellow percussionist, I totally refute what some have said about the drums having no soul or being machine like. Total BS...you bring a nuance to the time changing that is truly breathtaking. The sound and levels are on point so much that when turned up to number 11, the sound is that of if the band were playing for me in my house. So how can that be bad. It's not, it's just frickin amazing...
So thank you all for your hard work, dedication, talent and professionalism in producing a body of music to be truly proud of.
See you in the UK at Download and hopefully a tour later in the year.
Love & Peace... :)
-
After the third listening I'm getting more and more used to the songs.... but I'm afraid my initial impressions about the lack of choruses will stick. Fall into the Light, Barstool Warrior and Room 137's sections which are meant to be choruses feel like bridges to me.
Not every song template has to be the same, but look for comparison at Bridges the Sky - first verse, then the "Sun, come shine my way" part.... second verse, again the "Sun, come shine my way part", and then we climax into the majestic "And at last the time has come" part, which elevates the song even more. When does this happen on Fall into the Light for example? the "Sun, come shine my way" part is quite good, but come on, the "And last the time has come" section is even better, and the song is way better with this part. Maybe with time I'll get used to the new songs, but in the three I mentioned I think a proper chorus is lacking and it's a pity 'cause Fall into the Light and especially Barstool Warrior are so great.
And I agree that expectations for Pale Blue Dot were insanely high - the subject matter for me would have been more worthy of the music for Illumination Theory, especially the big ending.
All of this probably makes it sound like I don't like the album, but it's quite the opposite - as said previously, I like basically everything about the approach, the writing and recording process, the collaborative effort, the fact that it's heavy without the mindless wanking (and even when it happens it's to the point and never derails the song), the general appreciation of it all is what probably make the lackluster choruses stand out way more.
But hey, maybe after a week or so I'll eat my words, the nice thing about music is that you don't have a deadline for definite and final opinions ;D (I hope so at least...)
-
Of course, one of my favorites from the album is the one thats about least liked.
Pale Blue Dot is amazing and a perfect closer for the album. Not all closers need to be epic. I mean that intro and instrumental section is worth the song. Even the rest is good.
-
Really enjoy Barstool Warrior but didn't get how it was people's favorite until I was listening to the album for the fourth time and it clicked. Now I have it stuck in my head ever since.
My personal favorite is probably Pale Blue Dot. Absolutely love Paralyzed too. The whole damn album is so amazing, even Owen Wilson.
-
I know I've stated this in my earlier opinion(s) about the album....but with a solid 15 or so listens under my belt now I'll say it again.....I love how they've 'trimmed the fat' from these songs and how there are no wasted notes or no sections of massive over playing. Everything we hear is well thought out and crafted...intentional and dare I say 'perfect' for that particular song.
On the first listen or two you get the impression that JP's solo's are pretty subdued compared to past efforts....then you get a few good listens in and realize his solos are still massively complex...they're just distilled to the most powerful way he can present them to us. These are some of the most beautiful and technical solos he's produced.
MM is unreal on this album as well and I love the fact that if you so desired you can hone in on JMX and actually hear everything he's playing.
Oh and....'Out of Reach' is already a top three DT ballad for me. (I'm not a ballad person)
-
I love the fact that if you so desired you can hone in on JMX and actually hear everything he's playing.
YES!
-
It's a peaceful, cold, sunny Sunday afternoon and I am cranking up D/T for umpteenth time - a perfect ambiance backdrop for the album. :) Still as fascinating and packing a punch as the first time I gave it a spin.
Feels so good to have witnessed the release of a DT album that got such widespread, if not universal, praise. After so many years.
-
The songwriting has taken such a massive leap forward on this album! They should do the "DT-bootcamp" writing/recording sessions for future albums as well, if the results are this good!
While I agree that the way they got together and wrote this album was great and should be repeated, I don't agree that the songwriting took a massive leap forward, because the songwriting was mostly excellent on the last album. I doubt Distance Over Time will top The Astonishing for me, but it's a worthy follow-up. :tup :tup
-
So, I now have a CD-length playlist called DreaMM Theater of Post-Portnoy DT songs. :lol
2 ADTOE + 1 DT + 3 TA + 3 D/T songs.
I've been hesitant to post my thoughts for a couple of reasons:
A. I never want to rain on anyone's parade, and for most of you, this album is a welcomed return to form.
B. I wanted to wait a few days and digest the record.
But...reading through all the comments this morning, erwinrafael's brutally concise post not only made me chuckle to myself, but it pretty much summed up my thoughts on the new album as well.
My numbers vary a bit from his, but the fact remains that if I take the material I actually listen to from these past 4 albums, I might have ten songs.
I've listened to this album six times all the way through. And there will not be seventh. At least, not all the way through.
I felt this way with the Astonishing as well: life is just too short to try and 'get' something. So much music to explore and listen to, I'm not gonna waste my time with something that just doesn't do anything for me.
My points of 'constructive criticism':
-The production is painful at times. Not to my liking at all. (Why is it so hard to re-create the immediacy and clarity of 6 Degrees???)
-JLB's voice wayyyy too low in the mix (what were they thinking???)
-I 'like' a handful of these songs (especially "Barstool Warrior" and "At Wit's End"), but even those two songs I have gripes with (there's a much better arrangement for both IMO)
But "Pale Blue Dot", "R137", and "Out of Reach" are things I never need to hear again. Ever.
And sadly, there is nothing on here that grabs me like "Bridges in the Sky", or "Breaking All Illusions".
Again, I want to reiterate, I am not at all trying to rain on anyone's parade. I am beyond happy that the majority of DT's fanbase seems to dig this album. And to be honest, it bums me out that I'm in the minority here, bc I 'wanted' to love this record. But, as they say, it is what it is.
That being said, my 10 song post-MP playlist is pretty amazing...just a bummer that it took nearly ten years to acquire it.
-
But...reading through all the comments this morning, erwinrafael's brutally concise post not only made me chuckle to myself, but it pretty much summed up my thoughts on the new album as well.
My numbers vary a bit from his, but the fact remains that if I take the material I actually listen to from these past 4 albums, I might have ten songs.
Err...my playlist is actually my Dream Theater sampler playlist that I intend to share to newbies to get them into DT. I am.perfectly hapoy listening to just post-Portnoy material, like gzarruk. :lol Sorry to rain on your parade. :-P
-
But...reading through all the comments this morning, erwinrafael's brutally concise post not only made me chuckle to myself, but it pretty much summed up my thoughts on the new album as well.
My numbers vary a bit from his, but the fact remains that if I take the material I actually listen to from these past 4 albums, I might have ten songs.
Err...my playlist is actually my Dream Theater sampler playlist that I intend to share to newbies to get them into DT. I am.perfectly hapoy listening to just post-Portnoy material, like gzarruk. :lol Sorry to rain on your parade. :-P
and myself. These are actually the only DT albums I ever listen to nowadays.
-
After the third listening I'm getting more and more used to the songs.... but I'm afraid my initial impressions about the lack of choruses will stick. Fall into the Light, Barstool Warrior and Room 137's sections which are meant to be choruses feel like bridges to me.
Not every song template has to be the same, but look for comparison at Bridges the Sky - first verse, then the "Sun, come shine my way" part.... second verse, again the "Sun, come shine my way part", and then we climax into the majestic "And at last the time has come" part, which elevates the song even more. When does this happen on Fall into the Light for example? the "Sun, come shine my way" part is quite good, but come on, the "And last the time has come" section is even better, and the song is way better with this part. Maybe with time I'll get used to the new songs, but in the three I mentioned I think a proper chorus is lacking and it's a pity 'cause Fall into the Light and especially Barstool Warrior are so great.
I agree with you on FitL and I feel the same for Paralyzed as well.
R137's equivalent of the section you are looking for would be the psychedelic vocals. Which is why I like how in the final third, Mangini drummed the "chorus" with the triplet feel of the verse leading into the repeat of the psychedelia section.
For Barstool Warrior, though, the chorus really feels complete to me, especially given how the vocals turned in the end where JP went with unconventional vocal transitions.
-
But...reading through all the comments this morning, erwinrafael's brutally concise post not only made me chuckle to myself, but it pretty much summed up my thoughts on the new album as well.
My numbers vary a bit from his, but the fact remains that if I take the material I actually listen to from these past 4 albums, I might have ten songs.
Err...my playlist is actually my Dream Theater sampler playlist that I intend to share to newbies to get them into DT. I am.perfectly hapoy listening to just post-Portnoy material, like gzarruk. :lol Sorry to rain on your parade. :-P
No worries. Unintentional or not, it summed up my thoughts perfectly.
-
After the third listening I'm getting more and more used to the songs.... but I'm afraid my initial impressions about the lack of choruses will stick. Fall into the Light, Barstool Warrior and Room 137's sections which are meant to be choruses feel like bridges to me.
Not every song template has to be the same, but look for comparison at Bridges the Sky - first verse, then the "Sun, come shine my way" part.... second verse, again the "Sun, come shine my way part", and then we climax into the majestic "And at last the time has come" part, which elevates the song even more. When does this happen on Fall into the Light for example? the "Sun, come shine my way" part is quite good, but come on, the "And last the time has come" section is even better, and the song is way better with this part. Maybe with time I'll get used to the new songs, but in the three I mentioned I think a proper chorus is lacking and it's a pity 'cause Fall into the Light and especially Barstool Warrior are so great.
And I agree that expectations for Pale Blue Dot were insanely high - the subject matter for me would have been more worthy of the music for Illumination Theory, especially the big ending.
All of this probably makes it sound like I don't like the album, but it's quite the opposite - as said previously, I like basically everything about the approach, the writing and recording process, the collaborative effort, the fact that it's heavy without the mindless wanking (and even when it happens it's to the point and never derails the song), the general appreciation of it all is what probably make the lackluster choruses stand out way more.
But hey, maybe after a week or so I'll eat my words, the nice thing about music is that you don't have a deadline for definite and final opinions ;D (I hope so at least...)
Agreed. My problem with the album is how most of the vocal parts are written. They seem like an afterthought compared to the quality of the rest of the album. Hardly any of the choruses are memorable. My favorite tracks are Barstool Warrior, SN2, and At Wit's End but the lack of memorable melodic verses and choruses makes much of the material mediocre to my ears. When I say mediocre I mean as Dream Theater tracks...who I hold to a much high standard than other bands.
Someone pages back mentioned Learning to Live doesn't have melodic verses and choruses and I strongly disagree. The whole "There was no time for pain no energy for anger" section flows and is instantly memorable. Same with the "I look at the world and see no understanding...."
The issue that I have been having with there more recent albums is that the vocal sections don;t rise to the quality of the rest of the music (not talking about Jame's voice...just how the parts are written)
I still at least like every album they have done but his one is honestly very disappointing overall to me even though I love the approach of writing together and I think many of the instrumental sections are killer and feel like something new. I also like that they are not making every song 10 minutes and derailing song that don't need to be derailed.
Glad that the majority of the fanbase is responding so well to it though and I always appreciate when the band puts out an new album because this world needs more quality music now more than ever with the lack of quality out there. After 5 listens, I like it but hardly any of the vocal parts stick and I couldn't sing them to you except Untethered Angel because I heard it so many times before the release.
-
I don't know. The first time I heard BW I was already able to hum its melody by the second chorus. Same with S2N's chorus and AWE. I really can not comprehend how LtL's vocal melodies are much more hummable compared to these songs, but hey, maybe I really just hate LtL. :lol
And the hyperbole about vocal melodies being afterthoughts in the past few albums, what is this thing called The Astonishing? Did I listen to a different album?
-
The first verse of Barstool Warrior reminds me of:
"Brace yourself my brother
I have breaking news"
A lot of that song has overtones of The Astonishing, weird to me that so many love it when The Astonishing is so divisive. I should say that I also love it but then I love a lot of TA.
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Seen a few people say this. At the end of JLB's held note he makes a little squeaky breath sound and the delay on his voice repeats it, it just so happens it sounds like a click. :D
-
At Wits End:
Does anyone get a WDADU vibe from 2:07 - 2:34 & FII 2:47 - 3:04? This is one of the best songs they have ever written IMO but everyone will have their own favourites.
Can anyone else hear the weird tapping at 5:57 to 6:02 (turn it up and you will hear it, sounds like a hollow tapping)???? I thought it was originally the click-track coming through JP's pickups when he was recording his solo but when I listened to the instrumental version its not there so I think maybe JLBs reverb/echo on vocal overdubs have picked up something weird? I cant hear it on the spotify or youtube version buts there on the cd, dvd, and bluray versions but not in the instrumental so I think it may be part of the vocal echo or the way its mixed?
Its driving me crazy so can someone please explain/clear this up this for me!!!
Seen a few people say this. At the end of JLB's held note he makes a little squeaky breath sound and the delay on his voice repeats it, it just so happens it sounds like a click. :D
Agreed, no click whatsoever on my amazon version or cd version, but the repeating of the the vocals effect is the only thing close.
-
Not every song template has to be the same, but look for comparison at Bridges the Sky - first verse, then the "Sun, come shine my way" part.... second verse, again the "Sun, come shine my way part", and then we climax into the majestic "And at last the time has come" part, which elevates the song even more. When does this happen on Fall into the Light for example? the "Sun, come shine my way" part is quite good, but come on, the "And last the time has come" section is even better, and the song is way better with this part. Maybe with time I'll get used to the new songs, but in the three I mentioned I think a proper chorus is lacking and it's a pity 'cause Fall into the Light and especially Barstool Warrior are so great.
Great observation. Similarly, take the arrangement of a song like Breaking All Illusions. On the first listen, I thought that the "Live in the moment, breathe in a new beginning" part was the chorus. And what an amazing part by the way.
But then, the song goes into that awesome heavy "verse B" section ("Emerald thoughts..."), only to lead into the REAL chorus ("Searching out, reaching in"....) which is just phenomenal, and my favorite chorus of theirs over the last 4 albums.
So basically, you have:
1. The instrumental intro
2. A soft verse
3. A detached pre-chorus which leads into...
4. A heavy second verse which is totally different from the first (A DT staple, but it really stands out here because EVERYTHING is totally different), which finally leads into...
5. The true chorus
6. An amazing instrumental section, leading back into...
7. The final chorus, and finally....
9. A brand new post-chorus part ("Embrace the days"...) which beautifully closes out this amazing song. Similar to the "And at last the time has come" part
The real magic is that detached pre-chorus (for lack of a better term. Maybe Chorus A?), the totally fresh second verse, and the outro section. As you mentioned, not every song has to have such a formula. But this kind of varied arrangement is a main reason that I still listen to an album like ADToE to this day, and a reason I fear D/T will not be in rotation for years to come.
I really do not want to bring any negativity, because I am extremely happy that people are loving this album and I am enjoying it quite a bit. I'm not a big fan of FII, but whenever someone says it's one of their favorite DT albums it makes me really happy.
Also, there are indeed some intricate arrangements on DT12. But since the choruses are weaker (IMO), it really limits that sense of climax you'd get form Breaking All Illusions and Bridges In The Sky.
-
With a couple more listens, the album is growing more and more on me.
Still Liking UA, Paralyzed, Fall into the light. LOVE VK :metal Its such a fun ass song
Barstool Warrior has grown on me much more (but I agree the name is kinda corny)
Room 137: The beginning is pretty catchy, I will give it that, but it stays too much in that initial territory. It just stays in first gear and
doesn't get going musically. By the 2 minute mark I have checked out and At this point I just skip this track.
S2N: Solid song. The chorus sounds a little reminiscent of Through the looking glass's chorus, but what evs. Its a decent song.
At wits end: The clouds parted and this song descended from the heavens :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy If they released this album
and it was just this one song I probably would have been happy :lol
PBD: Yeah... Just not that fun to listen to. I don't like any part of this song. Pale blue dot the book is a favorite of mine and I love sagan.
Thematically when I think of Pale blue dot or sagan in general, I think more optimistic thoughts, more like a learning to live kind of vibe.
This song goes in the opposite direction. Its dark and dull. If you are gonna give me dark, then give me a Train of thought style song. I
would have gotten behind that, but I really don't like PBD.
*** So yeah. Pretty decent album. And one thing I will say is that I like that its under an hour. Its pretty lean and I mean and I dig that.
-
I don't know. The first time I heard BW I was already able to hum its melody by the second chorus. Same with S2N's chorus and AWE. I really can not comprehend how LtL's vocal melodies are much more hummable compared to these songs, but hey, maybe I really just hate LtL. :lol
And the hyperbole about vocal melodies being afterthoughts in the past few albums, what is this thing called The Astonishing? Did I listen to a different album?
Funny that you should mention those 3 songs because those are my favorite 3 songs from the album.
The rest of the album I consider mediocre as Dream Theater songs. Just my opinion Glad the majority is high on the album
-
So, I now have a CD-length playlist called DreaMM Theater of Post-Portnoy DT songs. :lol
2 ADTOE + 1 DT + 3 TA + 3 D/T songs.
-JLB's voice wayyyy too low in the mix (what were they thinking???)
I've listened to this album 3× now and the vocals are mixed just right as far as being balanced with the music. I hate it when vocals are too high in the mix no matter how good the singer is especially in this genre. The voice needs to serve as an instrument that doesn't fatigue the ears. I've heard mixes done by amateurs and I feel like I have to duck when the loud vocals come in.
I really love this new album. I would say the only little thing that I've noticed about the vocals is that some of the enunciating gets a little hard to understand because of the effects used in the production. Other than that, James is great on this record!
-
Great observation. Similarly, take the arrangement of a song like Breaking All Illusions. On the first listen, I thought that the "Live in the moment, breathe in a new beginning" part was the chorus. And what an amazing part by the way.
But then, the song goes into that awesome heavy "verse B" section ("Emerald thoughts..."), only to lead into the REAL chorus ("Searching out, reaching in"....) which is just phenomenal, and my favorite chorus of theirs over the last 4 albums.
So basically, you have:
1. The instrumental intro
2. A soft verse
3. A detached pre-chorus which leads into...
4. A heavy second verse which is totally different from the first (A DT staple, but it really stands out here because EVERYTHING is totally different), which finally leads into...
5. The true chorus
6. An amazing instrumental section, leading back into...
7. The final chorus, and finally....
9. A brand new post-chorus part ("Embrace the days"...) which beautifully closes out this amazing song. Similar to the "And at last the time has come" part
The real magic is that detached pre-chorus (for lack of a better term. Maybe Chorus A?), the totally fresh second verse, and the outro section. As you mentioned, not every song has to have such a formula. But this kind of varied arrangement is a main reason that I still listen to an album like ADToE to this day, and a reason I fear D/T will not be in rotation for years to come.
I really do not want to bring any negativity, because I am extremely happy that people are loving this album and I am enjoying it quite a bit. I'm not a big fan of FII, but whenever someone says it's one of their favorite DT albums it makes me really happy.
Also, there are indeed some intricate arrangements on DT12. But since the choruses are weaker (IMO), it really limits that sense of climax you'd get form Breaking All Illusions and Bridges In The Sky.
The structure of Barstool Warrior
1. Rush-like instrumental intro with the instruments entering one by one
2. The lead guitar line
3. Verse 1
4. Chorus
5. Verse 2, of a different tone from verse 1 (actually, it's the same as the instrumental intro)
6. Chorus, but now in double time
7. Lead guitar line, making us think this is the guitar solo
8. Piano break
9. The real guitar solo
10. The chorus but not really the chorus, reflecting the shift in the tone from the guitar solo
11. A new vocal melody (No one can save you...)
12. And yet another variation playing on the cadence of the original chorus but with a different more hopeful tone, hinting at a climax
13. Climax: Now I see where I belong
The way I see it, it's still a complex arrangement, just shorter.
-
The more I listen to the album, especially loud in the car and the more I like pbd... To me it's dance of eternity level and it has rollercoaster and epic moments :)
Maybe the fact that I don't really focus on singing makes me love this album, tho there are fantastic emotion singing and catchy choruses to me
-
I've listened to this album 3× now and the vocals are mixed just right as far as being balanced with the music. I hate it when vocals are too high in the mix no matter how good the singer is especially in this genre. The voice needs to serve as an instrument that doesn't fatigue the ears. I've heard mixes done by amateurs and I feel like I have to duck when the loud vocals come in.
This is the thing. People tend to state opinions as facts about production but the truth is mixes are down to personal preference just as much as the music. Some people like natural sounding drums, some people like in-your-face punchy drums, some like the vocals to sit back, some like them right up-front.
Unless there's obvious issues with the production it's just down to personal preference.
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
-
Giving this album a good listen for the first time.
So far, still don't like any of the three songs they released first. Moments here or there, but not much.
Barstool Warrior felt like they said "Let's just throw in ideas that we know fans will approve of" just felt safe and lacking heart.
137 had some pretty awesome moments, but the chorus was just very very meh and uninspired.
S2N...same as Room 137. Cool song, but very boring chorus. I get it, you guys slow down and do a big open epic chorus. Change it up!
At Wit's End was very meh. Really didn't do anything for me other than some very nice piano parts and a tasteful lead from JP.
Out of Reach - Did nothing for me at all. Pleasant, then as soon as it ended, I had totally forgotten a single note or melody.
Pale Blue Dot - Also not a fan. A few cool moments, but overall very predictable, safe, and boring (to me)
On Viper King now, but since it's a bonus track, it looks like the album is just not for me. Felt very boring, safe, predictable (for the most part), and an attempt to "give the fans what they want" which I rarely like much as a mentality.
Dug Viper King actually. Vocals could use some tweaking (especially the mix) but definitely the best song on the album for me.
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
In between Room 137 and S2N(?)
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
I don't think that PBD is a particularly effective closer, so my tracklisting would probably go...
1. Pale Blue Dot
2. Untethered Angel
3. Paralyzed
4. Fall into the Light
5. Out of Reach
6. Viper King
7. Room 137
8. S2N
9. Barstool Warrior
10. At Wit's End
That way you've got Out of Reach and Viper King together as the "old school" songs (both have quite a classic rock vibe, in different ways), then Viper King and Room 137 fit nicely together as the "goofy" section of the album. I feel like S2N, Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End slowly increase in terms of lyrical intensity, too - and that fade back in is perfect to close the album.
Not tried it like that, yet, though. Just riffing! Putting Barstool Warrior so late in the album might be too big a change.
-
I've listened to this album 3× now and the vocals are mixed just right as far as being balanced with the music. I hate it when vocals are too high in the mix no matter how good the singer is especially in this genre. The voice needs to serve as an instrument that doesn't fatigue the ears. I've heard mixes done by amateurs and I feel like I have to duck when the loud vocals come in.
This is the thing. People tend to state opinions as facts about production but the truth is mixes are down to personal preference just as much as the music. Some people like natural sounding drums, some people like in-your-face punchy drums, some like the vocals to sit back, some like them right up-front.
Unless there's obvious issues with the production it's just down to personal preference.
:tup
That's why it's impossible to please everybody with an album release.
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
I don't think that PBD is a particularly effective closer, so my tracklisting would probably go...
1. Pale Blue Dot
.
.
.
I may try it between R137 and S2n first and see how that goes.
Regarding PBD, I think that would be a terrific opener live, I'm expecting UA but PBD would work well the same way that BitS did.
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
I don't think that PBD is a particularly effective closer, so my tracklisting would probably go...
1. Pale Blue Dot
.
.
.
I may try it between R137 and S2n first and see how that goes.
Regarding PBD, I think that would be a terrific opener live, I'm expecting UA but PBD would work well the same way that BitS did.
I'm all about that intro tape!
-
I've been thinking about that and getting no where, but then again there's still a couple of songs that I don't fully understand their subject. Namely At Paralyzed, Wit's End, S2N and Fall into The Light.
If I remember correctly, John confirmed that S2N is about the idea of not losing yourself (the "signal") in the chaos of the world (the "noise"), while James confirmed that Wit's End is about an abusive relationship & its damaging effects on the woman being abused.
I don't quite remember if they said what Paralyzed & Fall Into The Light were about though.
After reading and re-reading the lyrics to At Wit's End , it seems to me the song is more about a how a woman getting assaulted/raped by someone other than her man/husband affects that man/husband whose trying to help her get through it.
-
Giving this album a good listen for the first time.
So far, still don't like...... overall very predictable, safe, and boring (to me)
I feel sorry for you....Yes, I do.
Another 2 or 3 year to wait for something unearthy to happen on planet DT.
Lucky enough there are plenty of bands around able to manage the task.
-
Why do you feel sorry for me? I’m not upset. I’m cool. No need to be condescending. Everyone else seems to love it. I just don’t. Ah well. I said my peace. This is apparently not a place for negative opinions. Glad you all like the album. :)
-
Why do you feel sorry for me? I’m not upset. I’m cool. No need to be condescending. Everyone else seems to love it. I just don’t. Ah well. I said my peace. This is apparently not a place for negative opinions. Glad you all like the album. :)
You’re good! Everyone get’s an opinion! hugs
-
Why do you feel sorry for me? I’m not upset. I’m cool. No need to be condescending. Everyone else seems to love it. I just don’t. Ah well. I said my peace. This is apparently not a place for negative opinions. Glad you all like the album. :)
There's a Strange air of déjà-vu in your comment. Kidding aside, we already talked about it Adami, but I think DT is not your thing anymore and I'm totally fine with it. Hopefully, I like the album, so I'm not there yet. Btw, there's so much music out there to enjoy.
B.Lee
-
First full listen today, with lyrics out and headphones on.
I'm a bit underwhelmed actually. There are some nice parts but overall unless it grows on me a lot with repeated listenes I feel like it will be in the bottom third of DTs albums.
Love them all and put all of them very high against other bands but still....
I did not think it would reach the heights that The Astonishing rose to and stay at for me but I hoped for more than I currently find.
Glad you all are loving it.... will give it mote spins to hope it rises for me too
-
I think this album will grow on me :) It's easy to be like 'oh I don't like this, the band sucks since blah blah left', but I felt this way about ADToE and DT12 at first, and I enjoy listening to those albums quite a bit now. Astonishing blew me away immediately (well not immediately, just after the first NOMAC track), but I'll probably be giving DoT more repeats, since I don't feel like I need to invest 2 hours every time I wanna listen :lol
-
Just learned about the first minute of Barstool Warrior on guitar. Fiddly but really fun to play. :biggrin:
-
But...reading through all the comments this morning, erwinrafael's brutally concise post not only made me chuckle to myself, but it pretty much summed up my thoughts on the new album as well.
My numbers vary a bit from his, but the fact remains that if I take the material I actually listen to from these past 4 albums, I might have ten songs.
Err...my playlist is actually my Dream Theater sampler playlist that I intend to share to newbies to get them into DT. I am.perfectly hapoy listening to just post-Portnoy material, like gzarruk. :lol Sorry to rain on your parade. :-P
and myself. These are actually the only DT albums I ever listen to nowadays.
Looks like I was summoned :lol
For the record, I enjoy all the DT catalog, from the Majesty demos to D/T. Obviously, there's some albums I like more than others, and will post my updated ranking once I've had more time to digest the new album. My top two, at the moment, are SFAM (for sentimental reasons - my first DT album/first prog album) and SDOIT (it still blows my mind every time), even though D/T might send SDOIT to 3rd place...
But, yes, I could live happily only listening to the MM era albums from now on, as I seem to come back to them the most. To me, the last 4 albums are the strongest 4 album streak in their career. If FII never existed and we got IAW - Awake - SFAM - SDOIT, that would be VERY hard to top, but FII ruins it.
-
The outro section of At Wit's End is fucking amazing.
-
Barstool Warrior felt like they said "Let's just throw in ideas that we know fans will approve of" just felt safe and lacking heart.
cray-cray
-
My custom track order:
1. Untethered Angel
2. Paralysed
3. Viper King
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Room 137
6. Signal To Noise
7. Fall Into The Light
8. Out Of Reach
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. At Wit's End
(differences are in bold)
-
So the more I listen to this album .... its the style I want from Dream Theater, I just don't think its that great.
Its a decent album but I listened to it all the way through for about the 7th time and then I put on Trial of Tears and was like "ah, now this is Dream Theater"
The snare sound, cymbals and playing of Mangini just make it impossible to get to 90's DT status. The songwriting and effortless Labrie vocals from the 90's were also just much better.
I'm enjoying the album and will continue to listen but its a middle of the road DT album.
Here is how I would rank DT albums now. This could still change but here it is:
SFAM
I&W
SDOIT
Awake
FII
The Astonishing
TOT
DT
D/T
Black Clouds
WDADU
Octavarium
ADTOE
SC
-
Its a decent album but I listened to it all the way through for about the 7th time and then I put on Trial of Tears and was like "ah, now this is Dream Theater"
The snare sound, cymbals and playing of Mangini just make it impossible to get to 90's DT status. The songwriting and effortless Labrie vocals from the 90's were also just much better.
I think it's a bit unfair people comparing recent outputs to 90's DT. I mean, we're talking 25 years ago. Time rolls on, people change and get older, not much is the same in life after a quarter of a century.
-
I completely agree with you.
That said... Trial of Tears does - what's the word I'm looking for? - breathe. It breathes in a way few DT tracks have since. And I do miss that.
-
I get that, that's a production issue that I guess definitely can be rectified no matter how many years have passed. It just falls in line with the modern times of over produced, compressed sounding albums that are brickwalled to the shithouse!
-
Hey Wolfking! My name is TAC. Nice to meet you. Welcome to the DT side.
-
Hey Wolfking! My name is TAC. Nice to meet you. Welcome to the DT side.
Nice to meet you too mate. I just found out I'm actually allowed in this side! I thought it was just a myth but the stories are true!
-
I get that, that's a production issue that I guess definitely can be rectified no matter how many years have passed. It just falls in line with the modern times of over produced, compressed sounding albums that are brickwalled to the shithouse!
See my rant in another thread ;D
-
The intro of Barstool Warrior reminds me of A Life Left Behind, and I mean that in a good way, both are amazing.
-
I get that, that's a production issue that I guess definitely can be rectified no matter how many years have passed. It just falls in line with the modern times of over produced, compressed sounding albums that are brickwalled to the shithouse!
I sort of get the logic now of these.overcompressed productions. I was listening the other day on shuffle, and the rather well-produced songs get lost in a sea of loud compressed songs. With many people now listening on streaming shuffled playlist, it would need an industry-wide effort to bring down loudness.
-
Man, the more I listen to At Wit's End, the more I realize how much I like both halves of the song but I don't necessarily like the song as a whole. It feels like two amazing, top tier DT songs kind of glued together. I feel like you could make two freaking amazing songs out of it if the ideas were developed further (which seems to be a common criticism I'm lobbying at the longer songs on this album lol).
Barstool Warrior still has not grown on me at all. Paralyzed, on the other hand, just keeps getting better and better the more familiar I become with it. Out of Reach too. S2N, Viper King, and Room 137 have remained consistently fantastic. Pale Blue Dot seems like it has a good song hidden in there somewhere beneath the noodles. The dramatic, almost scary music seems more fitting to the lyrics and concept now. It's a different take on the concept of Sagan's speech, instead casting it as something that's diminishing and frightening as opposed to humbling and awe-inspiring.
-
But, yes, I could live happily only listening to the MM era albums from now on, as I seem to come back to them the most. To me, the last 4 albums are the strongest 4 album streak in their career. If FII never existed and we got IAW - Awake - SFAM - SDOIT, that would be VERY hard to top, but FII ruins it.
The thing with the run from DT onwards is that I found myself straining to listen to long songs now except for those with sections that do not overstay their welcome (like BAI and IT). They sort of validated my liking for Awake, which was my fav for a long time because of the lack on unnecessary wank (except for Voices). Same reason why O can not get into Haken, a band whose idea of prog seems to be making songs long even if it means playing the same music idea for one minute.
-
'At Wit's End' seemed like a shorter version of 'Illumination Theory'. And that was good.
And.....can't believe I'm posting something like this for the DT world to see.....I got tears in my eyes at the ending, with the distant 'don't leave me now' vocals and music. I felt like I was calling out to my Mom when she died over three decades ago.
what music can do to a person........
-
I've been thinking about that and getting no where, but then again there's still a couple of songs that I don't fully understand their subject. Namely At Paralyzed, Wit's End, S2N and Fall into The Light.
If I remember correctly, John confirmed that S2N is about the idea of not losing yourself (the "signal") in the chaos of the world (the "noise"), while James confirmed that Wit's End is about an abusive relationship & its damaging effects on the woman being abused.
I don't quite remember if they said what Paralyzed & Fall Into The Light were about though.
After reading and re-reading the lyrics to At Wit's End , it seems to me the song is more about a how a woman getting assaulted/raped by someone other than her man/husband affects that man/husband whose trying to help her get through it.
Yea, from the lyrics and James’ description, that’s the way I’m reading it too :tup
The idea that I really like, is from one of the reviews that mentioned the uplifting solo may mean she is starting to come to terms and accept things in order to move forward. But the impromptu live Easter egg ending, shows that sinister little fragments still find their way through. I don’t actually believe the band may have done this on purpose, and likely just wanted to have a cool little Easter egg. But regardless, I think it’s a great thought process, and one I’m happy to go with, intentional or not, as it seems to fit the feel and vibe of the song beautifully.
AWE is also a fucking unbelievable listening experience to my ears, ranking right alongside the very best.
-
'At Wit's End' seemed like a shorter version of 'Illumination Theory'. And that was good.
At Wit's End is a very short "epic". It has many different sections. Just the vocals are present in many different styles. The You Not Me style (2:07-2:32), aggressive parts, soaring parts, the pleading at the end...
It could even be the closer of the album. Pale Blue Dot is very good, but it isn't the best closer, or that epic as Petrucci describes. (My opinion is that JP isn't very good at describing music. I remember his characterization of The Looking Glass.)
And.....can't believe I'm posting something like this for the DT world to see.....I got tears in my eyes at the ending, with the distant 'don't leave me now' vocals and music. I felt like I was calling out to my Mom when she died over three decades ago.
what music can do to a person........
Indeed! That part in special is very touching. Awesome work there, by everyone.
-
Does anyone have a recommendation for where Viper King would fit well? I want to keep it but I think PBD is a good ender so I'm wondering if VK would fit well somewhere in the middle.
(love the CD, BTW).
In between Room 137 and S2N(?)
I kind of like this, it breaks up the heaviness of R137 and S2n. I hate to break up the intended listening experience but I do think this works.
-
Giving this album a good listen for the first time.
So far, still don't like any of the three songs they released first. Moments here or there, but not much.
Barstool Warrior felt like they said "Let's just throw in ideas that we know fans will approve of" just felt safe and lacking heart.
137 had some pretty awesome moments, but the chorus was just very very meh and uninspired.
S2N...same as Room 137. Cool song, but very boring chorus. I get it, you guys slow down and do a big open epic chorus. Change it up!
At Wit's End was very meh. Really didn't do anything for me other than some very nice piano parts and a tasteful lead from JP.
Out of Reach - Did nothing for me at all. Pleasant, then as soon as it ended, I had totally forgotten a single note or melody.
Pale Blue Dot - Also not a fan. A few cool moments, but overall very predictable, safe, and boring (to me)
On Viper King now, but since it's a bonus track, it looks like the album is just not for me. Felt very boring, safe, predictable (for the most part), and an attempt to "give the fans what they want" which I rarely like much as a mentality.
Dug Viper King actually. Vocals could use some tweaking (especially the mix) but definitely the best song on the album for me.
If there really is nothing that’s holds your interest on the album other than the fun bonus track, then as you have suggested yourself before, DT may just not be your thing anymore. Negative opinions are fine and I don’t think it’s a perfect album. But do think there are some incredible songs and moments, and it seems to be growing each day it becomes more familiar. All good, if it’s not your thing, it’s not your thing. And it would definitely take a bit of a time investment with some tracks, so whether you want to do that is your own prerogative, but by your general vibe sounds unlikely. Which is all fair enough.
If songs like Barstool Warrior have sounds and moments in them the band thinks fans will approve of, then to me, that’s a good thing. I personally think it’s a terrific song and some of those similar sounds are exactly what makes it endearing to me and I would imagine the others that are fans. But again, that’s the great thing about this band - we all like different elements as they have covered a fair bit of ground over the years..
-
Not sure what you're talking about jayvee3, that IS a positive review from Adami.
-
Not sure what you're talking about jayvee3, that IS a positive review from Adami.
Haha, ;D
-
Good Lord, that outro by JP on At Wit's End. I'm bawling like a baby.
-
Room 137 has a groove that reminds me of a more pumped up Just Let Me Breathe.
-
Everyone talking about playlists (d/t or MM era), so I decided to make one over "The Portnoy era: the crap years."
I've had to put These Walls to complete 7 songs (I didn't want to be in only six). :lol
Well, I'm more used to PBD now. MM drumming on it is amazing! :metal
-
But, yes, I could live happily only listening to the MM era albums from now on, as I seem to come back to them the most. To me, the last 4 albums are the strongest 4 album streak in their career. If FII never existed and we got IAW - Awake - SFAM - SDOIT, that would be VERY hard to top, but FII ruins it.
The thing with the run from DT onwards is that I found myself straining to listen to long songs now except for those with sections that do not overstay their welcome (like BAI and IT). They sort of validated my liking for Awake, which was my fav for a long time because of the lack on unnecessary wank (except for Voices). Same reason why O can not get into Haken, a band whose idea of prog seems to be making songs long even if it means playing the same music idea for one minute.
Well, the last 3 albums (DT, TA and D/T) prove they know how to write great prog/metal songs in short lenghts, similar to what they did in the 90s vs what they were doing in the 2000s where longer songs were the rule. Not that every song should be short or that shorter songs mean better songs, but it's nice to hear them focus on songwriting and melody over technicality for the sake of it or including 1000 sections in one song just because.
Well, I'm more used to PBD now. MM drumming on it is amazing! :metal
This guy just posted a drum cover for PBD and he NAILS it, definitely worth checking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
-
This guy just posted a drum cover for PBD and he NAILS it, definitely worth checking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
Yes! I've seen this video earlier. Really a worth checking :tup
-
I was just about to post that link to the drum cover of PBD and I have to say that when finally seen visually, a lot of the instrumental is actually a "musicalization" of Mike Mangini's drum solo spot in the concerts. ;-)
-
Dunno if this is the right place to post or if this has already been discussed (if so just point me in the right direction). Anyway, did anyone have a hard time finding the album in stores? I know the easiest way to go is Amazon but honestly I kinda forgot about the album and I’m used to being able to find these things on release day. Checked two independent record stores and Best Buy and nobody had it. Finally I was able to find a vinyl copy at FYE (but no CD).
It’s really no big deal. I imagine most people probably order physical copies online but I’m just kinda curious if this album’s release is more limited than others due to the new label. I assumed signing with InsideOut would be a bit of a commercial downgrade compared to roadrunner but would be better for them in terms of having more control over the release and avoiding stuff like the Astonishing box set fiasco. So I’m curious if mine is a unique situation or not.
-
Ok another couple spins and I have to revise my album ranking. A few of the songs really hit me this time! I’m excited... even pale blue dot was Better.
Bw, s2n, awe, oor are all great and totally the type of dt we have been missing. Loud bass and emotional melodies.
D/T just moved ahead of DT and could even climb further. The slow part in at wits end leading into the solo is so awake!!!! Love it! And barstool warrior is clicking. Love it also
-
Dunno if this is the right place to post or if this has already been discussed (if so just point me in the right direction). Anyway, did anyone have a hard time finding the album in stores? I know the easiest way to go is Amazon but honestly I kinda forgot about the album and I’m used to being able to find these things on release day. Checked two independent record stores and Best Buy and nobody had it. Finally I was able to find a vinyl copy at FYE (but no CD).
It’s really no big deal. I imagine most people probably order physical copies online but I’m just kinda curious if this album’s release is more limited than others due to the new label. I assumed signing with InsideOut would be a bit of a commercial downgrade compared to roadrunner but would be better for them in terms of having more control over the release and avoiding stuff like the Astonishing box set fiasco. So I’m curious if mine is a unique situation or not.
The only major retailer I've seen it at is Walmart. I mean, they only had one copy, but it certainly surprised me. Otherwise, the only place I've seen it is the local music store.
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
-
I still have no idea who the hell Owen Wilson is.
-
What I actually wonder is if his mention in Octavarium is a sincere tribute, or the guy has just a generic enough name (actually, name - surname combo) that it was an opportunity not to be missed trying to tie up all the "stream of consciousness" that makes up Full Circle ;D
-
I still have no idea who the hell Owen Wilson is.
He's an actor.
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
Because it is a running joke in his movies, where he almost always has a scene where he says WOW.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-legend-of-owen-wilsons-wow-2
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
Because it is a running joke in his movies, where he almost always has a scene where he says WOW.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-legend-of-owen-wilsons-wow-2
I see.
-
What I actually wonder is if his mention in Octavarium is a sincere tribute, or the guy has just a generic enough name (actually, name - surname combo) that it was an opportunity not to be missed trying to tie up all the "stream of consciousness" that makes up Full Circle ;D
Yeah, I always went with the idea that they needed a puzzle piece and his name worked, no" tribute" type thing.
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
Because it is a running joke in his movies, where he almost always has a scene where he says WOW.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-legend-of-owen-wilsons-wow-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn5Tattkj_E
-
Not sure what you're talking about jayvee3, that IS a positive review from Adami.
I love you, TAC.
-
I have a question: Who yells out the "Yeaah, baby!!" right at the very beginning of Viper King?
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
-
I have a question: Who yells out the "Yeaah, baby!!" right at the very beginning of Viper King?
I think it may be the first recorded instance of Mangini vocals in Dream Theater!
-
My money's on JM ;D
-
Great observation. Similarly, take the arrangement of a song like Breaking All Illusions. On the first listen, I thought that the "Live in the moment, breathe in a new beginning" part was the chorus. And what an amazing part by the way.
But then, the song goes into that awesome heavy "verse B" section ("Emerald thoughts..."), only to lead into the REAL chorus ("Searching out, reaching in"....) which is just phenomenal, and my favorite chorus of theirs over the last 4 albums.
So basically, you have:
1. The instrumental intro
2. A soft verse
3. A detached pre-chorus which leads into...
4. A heavy second verse which is totally different from the first (A DT staple, but it really stands out here because EVERYTHING is totally different), which finally leads into...
5. The true chorus
6. An amazing instrumental section, leading back into...
7. The final chorus, and finally....
9. A brand new post-chorus part ("Embrace the days"...) which beautifully closes out this amazing song. Similar to the "And at last the time has come" part
The real magic is that detached pre-chorus (for lack of a better term. Maybe Chorus A?), the totally fresh second verse, and the outro section. As you mentioned, not every song has to have such a formula. But this kind of varied arrangement is a main reason that I still listen to an album like ADToE to this day, and a reason I fear D/T will not be in rotation for years to come.
I really do not want to bring any negativity, because I am extremely happy that people are loving this album and I am enjoying it quite a bit. I'm not a big fan of FII, but whenever someone says it's one of their favorite DT albums it makes me really happy.
Also, there are indeed some intricate arrangements on DT12. But since the choruses are weaker (IMO), it really limits that sense of climax you'd get form Breaking All Illusions and Bridges In The Sky.
The structure of Barstool Warrior
1. Rush-like instrumental intro with the instruments entering one by one
2. The lead guitar line
3. Verse 1
4. Chorus
5. Verse 2, of a different tone from verse 1 (actually, it's the same as the instrumental intro)
6. Chorus, but now in double time
7. Lead guitar line, making us think this is the guitar solo
8. Piano break
9. The real guitar solo
10. The chorus but not really the chorus, reflecting the shift in the tone from the guitar solo
11. A new vocal melody (No one can save you...)
12. And yet another variation playing on the cadence of the original chorus but with a different more hopeful tone, hinting at a climax
13. Climax: Now I see where I belong
The way I see it, it's still a complex arrangement, just shorter.
Right, yeah in my last couple of sentences I acknowledged that there were some complex arrangements on D/T, but to me the weaker choruses make these songs less appealing to me personally.
With BAI, every single last part of the song is just incredible, and I was hoping there would be a couple songs like that. I guess I’m just holding everything to such a high standard that is BAI.
I do love Pale Blue Dot more and more though.
-
BAI is a perfect song. I won't make that a benchmark as everything would be bound to disappoint.
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Without clicking the link or reading the comments let me guess...
Wow. Much better than Mangini!
Bring back Portnoy
Mindless fills over a song is much better than well orchestrated parts. :)
-
PBD gives me a huge Symphony X vibe at parts; very reminiscent of The Odyssey.
-
PBD gives me a huge Symphony X vibe at parts; very reminiscent of The Odyssey.
I remember bosk said that PBD was the best Symphony X song ever.
After listening, I agree 100%
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Not so bad as FITL :lol :lol
That cover was the epitome of the disaster on the drums.
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
Because it is a running joke in his movies, where he almost always has a scene where he says WOW.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-legend-of-owen-wilsons-wow-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn5Tattkj_E
Does someone know which one of these 102 "wow"s was sampled on S2N?
Or did they get an original from Owen Wilson?
-
Just curious in the song S2N after the instrumental, did anyone else hear an Owen Wilson "Wow"?
Yeah I heard that on the first listen but I didn't know it was Owen Wilson. A few hours ago I saw "Petrucci Confirms Owen Wilson Cameo" but I didn't click on it.
Edit: All right just looked it up again and it said Petrucci WON'T confirm Owen Wilson Cameo". I've never seen a movie with Wilson in it. How did you know it was him?
Because it is a running joke in his movies, where he almost always has a scene where he says WOW.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-legend-of-owen-wilsons-wow-2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn5Tattkj_E
Does someone know which one of these 102 "wow"s was sampled on S2N?
Or did they get an original from Owen Wilson?
Isn't it the one from Marley And Me (#47) in that clip?
-
Check out @dreamtheaternet’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1100047780205056000?s=09
Speaking of "wow"...
-Marc.
-
I remember bosk said that PBD was the best Symphony X song ever.
After listening, I agree 100%
Ahh looks like I'm a bit late here! Haha that's great.
-
I actually get a big Scar Symmetry vibe from Pale Blue Dot.
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Not so bad as FITL :lol :lol
That cover was the epitome of the disaster on the drums.
I find it cringy when people refer to those covers as “the Portnoy way”. Maybe some of us do not hold Portnoy as high as we once used to but he’a a damn fine orchestrator on the drums. He certainly knew when to not overplay and not play a 16th note fill every 2 bars or so. This guy is basically showing off chops for the sake of MP Warrior likes, I feel.
-
Haha...My previous post I had said Room 137 reminds me of Just Let Me Breathe. Well, I didn't have a way to hear the album at the time and wanted to post before i forget. Listened to the album again, its S2N that has that JLMB groove.
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
These people sure love their fills.
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Not so bad as FITL :lol :lol
That cover was the epitome of the disaster on the drums.
I find it cringy when people refer to those covers as “the Portnoy way”. Maybe some of us do not hold Portnoy as high as we once used to but he’a a damn fine orchestrator on the drums. He certainly knew when to not overplay and not play a 16th note fill every 2 bars or so. This guy is basically showing off chops for the sake of MP Warrior likes, I feel.
Agreed, the comments manage to insult Portnoy and Mangini at the same time.
-
I find it cringy when people refer to those covers as “the Portnoy way”. Maybe some of us do not hold Portnoy as high as we once used to but he’a a damn fine orchestrator on the drums. He certainly knew when to not overplay and not play a 16th note fill every 2 bars or so. This guy is basically showing off chops for the sake of MP Warrior likes, I feel.
And this only makes the situation worse.
People who love MP so much, but are unable to perceive a poorly made imitation.
-
Haha...My previous post I had said Room 137 reminds me of Just Let Me Breathe. Well, I didn't have a way to hear the album at the time and wanted to post before i forget. Listened to the album again, its S2N that has that JLMB groove.
S2N reminds me of a few Rush songs, especially the riffing. Three that come to mind are Headlong Flight, Main Monkey Business, and By-Tor and the Snowdog at the "Wow" section.
Even the Beatles sounding parts of Room 137 has a Headlong Flight sound as well, the part where it says "I have stoked the fire on the big steel wheel" section.
This is all a good thing though! :tup
-
Haha...My previous post I had said Room 137 reminds me of Just Let Me Breathe. Well, I didn't have a way to hear the album at the time and wanted to post before i forget. Listened to the album again, its S2N that has that JLMB groove.
S2N reminds me of a few Rush songs, especially the riffing. Three that come to mind are Headlong Flight, Main Monkey Business, and By-Tor and the Snowdog at the "Wow" section.
Even the Beatles sounding parts of Room 137 has a Headlong Flight sound as well, the part where it says "I have stoked the fire on the big steel wheel" section.
This is all a good thing though! :tup
Yeah I enjoyed the By-Tor part. What reminds me of JLMB though is the verses and the groove/feel of that part. It would be neat to hear JLMB before S2N.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
If I had to pick one era of the band, I would say that the JP/JM era really showcases an unparalleled consistency.
The first verse of Barstool Warrior reminds me of:
"Brace yourself my brother
I have breaking news"
Totally. That and Beautiful Agony.
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Without clicking the link or reading the comments let me guess...
Wow. Much better than Mangini!
Bring back Portnoy
Mindless fills over a song is much better than well orchestrated parts. :)
I don't really get the constant criticism of the guy. He likes posting his covers, they are usually well done, and he doesn't seem to take shots at anybody that I've seen. Not sure what the issue is that some seem to have with him.
-
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
What's sad to me is that this guy sets his drums up exactly like MP and has the same body language, same drumming posture, same body language, long hair, beard, etc. as MP. It's way over the top and creepy. Like being over obsessed with MP.
I'm a drummer and MP was an influence for me back in the 90's. But I never wanted to be a replica of him or any other drummer I consider an influence.
-
Not sure why anyone cares, you either enjoy or not. I thought the link was going to be someone bashing the album or something based on what people here were commenting, it's just someone playing the drums.
-
I admit Pale Blue Dot's first impression was pretty bad for me. It grows fastly. I still think outro is the weakest part.
-
I'm happy to say that some of PBT has been in my head today. It continues to grow on me... I just don't like the part that sounds like systematic chaos, i think its the chorus. Has an ITPOE vibe and I don't like that song very much.
The beginning of PBT is sweet though! and the vibe of the song of kind of a scary space vibe is great. I think the song could have been better buts it becoming a solid track for me and not the huge eyesore I originally thought it was.
-
Album is aging well for me. Pale Blue Dot hasn't clicked for me and for Room 137 just doesn't cut it. I appreciate the different sound and arrangements that DT was going with this one but it's just not clicking.
I love the rest of the album..absolutely love it.
-
I just loved that they turned the bass up and changed the sound. This albums has its own vibe which is great... regardless of what we think of the songs.
-
Many listen-through in, the album is aging much better than Astonishing did. It's remarkably easy to listen, despite the complexity of the music.
On a secondary not, today I received my box set, and I'd like to remark on the quality of the videos, especially At Wit's End, Out of Reach and most significantly Pale Blue Dot. A definite step up from previous DT animated video (think Forsaken), but in my opinion also on the more traditional band-driven videos such as On The Backs of Angels and The Enemy Inside.
-
I admit Pale Blue Dot's first impression was pretty bad for me. It grows fastly. I still think outro is the weakest part.
Absolutely agree here. As the "true" album closer, this is probably the most underwhelming outro among the rest of the discography. I was pretty disappointed on my first listen, and I was very relieved that Viper King followed immediately, because it very quickly washed away that feeling.
After many many listens, I still feel that it's not as good as other outros, but the solo in a vacuum is pretty solid. And the rest of the song has really really grown on me as well. I find myself randomly blurting out "GOD CREATOR" during the day.
-
Haha...My previous post I had said Room 137 reminds me of Just Let Me Breathe. Well, I didn't have a way to hear the album at the time and wanted to post before i forget. Listened to the album again, its S2N that has that JLMB groove.
S2N reminds me of a few Rush songs, especially the riffing. Three that come to mind are Headlong Flight, Main Monkey Business, and By-Tor and the Snowdog at the "Wow" section.
Even the Beatles sounding parts of Room 137 has a Headlong Flight sound as well, the part where it says "I have stoked the fire on the big steel wheel" section.
This is all a good thing though! :tup
I also get a bit of Double Agent vibe in S2N.
Frank
-
Yes, I agree.
-
I already have more spins of DOT than The Astonishing.
I'm still holding out hope that we get more split screen videos of them playing the songs at Yonderbarn.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
If I had to pick one era of the band, I would say that the JP/JM era really showcases an unparalleled consistency.
The first verse of Barstool Warrior reminds me of:
"Brace yourself my brother
I have breaking news"
Totally. That and Beautiful Agony.
So the guy who profits from milking the adoration of MP fanboys is at it again.
https://youtu.be/nGohd3DYb-g
Wow, was that painful to listen to.
Without clicking the link or reading the comments let me guess...
Wow. Much better than Mangini!
Bring back Portnoy
Mindless fills over a song is much better than well orchestrated parts. :)
I don't really get the constant criticism of the guy. He likes posting his covers, they are usually well done, and he doesn't seem to take shots at anybody that I've seen. Not sure what the issue is that some seem to have with him.
For me it's more about the comments. I give the guy credit for posting and he obviously having a lot of passion. But you're right my mindless fills comment does seem critical. The comment section is what gets me. I personally have no problem with him. I think he's obviously talented but no where near Portnoy or Mangini.
-
Bought the album today, along with a Kenny Garrett album. Listened to it on the drive home. I've listened to each of the 3 singles twice, which are the first 2 tracks, so everything else after was new.
Beautiful day out, sunny skies, some clouds, very windy. Haven't been listening to much Dream Theater, kinda fell off after MP left, though I enjoyed SC and BC&SL I would not have been opposed to a ~5 year break. However, I enjoyed ADTOE and think it's a good album, with drums that are a bit low in the mix. I was not a big fan of the last couple of albums, bought both blind excl. singles, as well as Distance Over Time; DT12 had sound problems, and I felt like many of the compositions had an unfinished quality to them, or the tunes weren't given time to marinate, so to speak, and I felt The Astonishing was very bloated, almost a chore to get through, and I'm not into the whole Broadway/Disney musical style so that didn't help.
With that said I thoroughly enjoyed Distance Over Time. So many elements in the songs that I felt have been missing or hard to find for the last half dozen albums or so. While it has more of the 'modern DT' sound at times, the technical through composed aspect of their music has returned, but is not overdone like on, say, Outcry from ADTOE. This new album has more grooves than the last bunch of albums, as well. The drums sound pretty good, as they did on the last album, but this may finally be the album of Mangini-unleashed. Some nice drum parts in there, really creative stuff. We even get some great bass lines everywhere, the bass was quite noticeable during most of the listen. Some Rush/Steve Morse/Yes influence felt here and there which kept the music bright and energetic. But also there were some hard riffs in there as well, and really sounded fun, unlike the last few albums IMO.
I'm going to go as far as saying this is the best album since Six Degrees, which I think I said about ADTOE when it came out, but I think I like this Distance Over Time more. The sound is more full, they've been playing with each other for almost 10 years now, but the conditions in which this album was created explains a lot too. This album SOUNDS like they were having a great time at the house-studio they lived in last summer writing music. I can't say much on any individual songs, I'll have to re-listen, which I obviously will. I did note that the last song Pale Blue Dot seemed to be the most intense song, and the final track, labeled as a bonus track Viper King really raised my eyebrows a little because of how much it sounds like they're actually trying to expand their sound, without worrying about keeping their "core sound" with them album-to-album, which I understand doing for a band this far along into their career, but I would not complain about an album of songs where the band really experiments with different sounds, like they almost did during the SDOIT sessions, bringing in World music influences, etc... I don't wanna hear that they did different things on the last album, TA is different, and I want a 'band' album. But anyway, the bonus track has a funky hard groove to it, mixed in with some double time, and a couple other things I thought sounded different for the band, I can't wait to listen to this album again, haven't said that in a while.
TL;DR It's a good one.
-
I've been spinning the album intensively recently and I enjoy playing it all the way through, it is cohesive and very energetic. Unfortunately, there are quite a few moments that bring some of the songs down for me in terms of melodies, riffs and song structures, preventing those songs from being truly great. The ones I return to most often are Pale blue dot and Paralyzed.
-
I have been skipping the first three tracks and begin listening with Barstool Warrior. I didn't listen to much of the first 3 tracks when they were released so that I wouldn't have burnout on them before the entire album was released. I feel as if the album from Barstool Warrior on is much better and enjoyable than the first three tracks. Anybody else have the same opinion?
-
I have been skipping the first three tracks and begin listening with Barstool Warrior. I didn't listen to much of the first 3 tracks when they were released so that I wouldn't have burnout on them before the entire album was released. I feel as if the album from Barstool Warrior on is much better and enjoyable than the first three tracks. Anybody else have the same opinion?
Pretty much agree with this, except I like FITL a lot. I just burned out on it for now which is my fault :lol but yea like you I'm also starting the album at BW usually.
-
I have been skipping the first three tracks and begin listening with Barstool Warrior. I didn't listen to much of the first 3 tracks when they were released so that I wouldn't have burnout on them before the entire album was released. I feel as if the album from Barstool Warrior on is much better and enjoyable than the first three tracks. Anybody else have the same opinion?
I like the first three a great deal, particularly Paralyzed, but think Barstool Warrior is superior to them.
-
So now it’s official for me, the Mangini albums are DT’s best 4-album stretch. If FII had never been released, obviously it would be I&W-SDoIT, but . . .
If I had to pick one era of the band, I would say that the JP/JM era really showcases an unparalleled consistency.
I agree, WDADU through to D/T is a decent run :lol
-
It does sort of feel like the 3 singles are an EP and then the rest of the album is an LP.
I sort of wish Paralyzed was later in the album.
-
I like TA quite a bit so I can say unequivocally that this is their best release since TA. I rank ADToE in my top 5 and I don't see this surpassing that. I felt DT12 was quite a drop from that, and TA is so hard to rank among the rest of their discography. So I am not sure where DoT (I am still using that, eat me) falls. Right now it is above DT12. It's above BC&SL, slightly above SC, and very slightly above 8VM (both of which have higher peaks and much lower valleys).
So while I am not ga-ga over this release as much of the fan base is, I am happy that they are pleased, and that the band seems happy, energized, and ready to the road and kick some ass. If only because that helps ensure we will get a quality DT15 (and hopefully DT16, and DT17...)
-
I have been skipping the first three tracks and begin listening with Barstool Warrior. I didn't listen to much of the first 3 tracks when they were released so that I wouldn't have burnout on them before the entire album was released. I feel as if the album from Barstool Warrior on is much better and enjoyable than the first three tracks. Anybody else have the same opinion?
I listened to the album from BW to the end for like a dozen times, since then I have been listening to the whole thing, I think within the context of the whole album, the singles sound better.
-
Man I'm so glad I held out on the singles, I've been listening to the whole thing over and over.
I decided to take break today and started listening to Luna Park, no D/T today so it won't burn out.
I got as far as Surrounded and thought "That was beautiful, you know what else is beautiful? Barstool Warrior" and I switched back :lol
-
I don't want to rank it, because it's just too early. I do like it a lot, as I've said. There isn't a single song that I find "skippable." I don't think I will end up ranking it in my top 4 (SDOIT, SFAM, ADTOE, DT12, in that order). It will probably be somewhere in the next tier with I&W, Awake, Octavarium, SC, and TA. But where in that group, I don't know.
-
I'm loving At Wits End every time I listen to the album. I feel it's placement in the album is perfect. You got the epic, a ballad, and the non-epic album song.
But then, at the same time...I'm remebering a Mike Mangini Facebook post that said this...
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
Which makes me wonder...Pale Blue Dot is pretty damn amazing, and rightly deserves the last track of the album. The album gradually builds itself to the ending of PBT. I love the album because of how they placed the songs...
-
I'm loving At Wits End every time I listen to the album. I feel it's placement in the album is perfect. You got the epic, a ballad, and the non-epic album song.
But then, at the same time...I'm remebering a Mike Mangini Facebook post that said this...
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
Which makes me wonder...Pale Blue Dot is pretty damn amazing, and rightly deserves the last track of the album. The album gradually builds itself to the ending of PBT. I love the album because of how they placed the songs...
The song placement is perfection. I took Viper King off and made sure the album proper runs right through. Great stuff.
-
I'm loving At Wits End every time I listen to the album. I feel it's placement in the album is perfect. You got the epic, a ballad, and the non-epic album song.
But then, at the same time...I'm remebering a Mike Mangini Facebook post that said this...
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
Which makes me wonder...Pale Blue Dot is pretty damn amazing, and rightly deserves the last track of the album. The album gradually builds itself to the ending of PBT. I love the album because of how they placed the songs...
The song placement is perfection. I took Viper King off and made sure the album proper runs right through. Great stuff.
I think of VK as an "end credits" song. In the way that Beneath the Surface provides a beautiful calming piece to contrast the epic ending of Breaking All Illusions, and the way the Easter Egg is also a nice calming piece after Illumination Theory, Viper King is a super fun joy-ride to contrast the menacing tone of Pale Blue Dot.
My only issue is that PBD doesn't have more seconds of silence so I can digest that ending before jumping into VK
-
Why take Viper King off? It's a very fun song with high energy! :metal
-
I like the song placement too. Part of me thinks At Wits End should be the album closer, but then it does work well leading into the ballad so there goes that idea. Untethered Angel is a solid opener too. VP kind of feels like a bonus track, as in, it doesn't sound like it fits on the album so when you hear that one, I already kind of know the album is over and now it's bonus time, and for a bonus song, it kicks serious ass.
I haven't listened to this as much as I thought I would, just been busy, but I think it's going to be hard to beat this one out for album of the year for me, it's just so damn good all around and it's probably a good thing I am not burning myself out from too many listens early. Devin Townsend may give it a run, but man, this album is sooo good. At Wits End is my favorite, but S2N is really becoming one of my favorites as well with more listens.
-
Personally I'm not digging Pale Blue Dot as a closer and I'm glad for Viper King. PBD has been growing on me a bit as a song generally, it's a cool heavy track, but I'm not a fan of its placement.
Another song that's growing on me is Paralyzed. The first half is still nothing special or particularly interesting, but I really dig the final chorus.
Oh and I'm also loving the djenty riff under the key solo at the end of S2N.
-
S2N is sooooo good.
That's all.
-
S2N is sooooo good.
That's all.
Agreed, easily my favorite song on the album.
-
Why take Viper King off? It's a very fun song with high energy! :metal
No doubt! But it also doesn't really jibe with the tone of the rest of the album, and is a bonus track. The album proper, the full listening experience, is just the nine songs.
Trust me, I like Viper King, and its a fun song. But its clearly a bonus track, and I really prefer it as something I have on the side, instead of following PBD. PBD is how the album was meant to end by the band, and that's why I'll do the same. In fact, the physical copy I bought doesn't even have Viper King (it was just on the digital promo I received).
-
Why take Viper King off? It's a very fun song with high energy! :metal
No doubt! But it also doesn't really jibe with the tone of the rest of the album, and is a bonus track. The album proper, the full listening experience, is just the nine songs.
Trust me, I like Viper King, and its a fun song. But its clearly a bonus track, and I really prefer it as something I have on the side, instead of following PBD. PBD is how the album was meant to end by the band, and that's why I'll do the same. In fact, the physical copy I bought doesn't even have Viper King (it was just on the digital promo I received).
Yeah, I'm kinda with you on this, I like VK, but I view it as a bonus (makes sense)! PBD works fine for me as the closer.
My only thing with VK is that I wish James' verse vocals were a little lower in his register, they sound too strained. If they want to keep the chorus vocals that high, that's fine because it'll lift the chorus, but I feel like they could have come up with a better, lower verse vocal. Other than that, love that song.
-
Why take Viper King off? It's a very fun song with high energy! :metal
No doubt! But it also doesn't really jibe with the tone of the rest of the album, and is a bonus track. The album proper, the full listening experience, is just the nine songs.
Trust me, I like Viper King, and its a fun song. But its clearly a bonus track, and I really prefer it as something I have on the side, instead of following PBD. PBD is how the album was meant to end by the band, and that's why I'll do the same. In fact, the physical copy I bought doesn't even have Viper King (it was just on the digital promo I received).
Yeah, I'm kinda with you on this, I like VK, but I view it as a bonus (makes sense)! PBD works fine for me as the closer.
My only thing with VK is that I wish James' verse vocals were a little lower in his register, they sound too strained. If they want to keep the chorus vocals that high, that's fine because it'll lift the chorus, but I feel like they could have come up with a better, lower verse vocal. Other than that, love that song.
Agreed. The vocals are a little high yeah.
-
Random though, but I love the TDS inspired riff under the keyboard solo in AWE.
-
The only song that I hadn't felt anything special about was PBD, but I'm really starting to dig it now!! Even the three singles are starting to feel more part of the album to me (next time, I'll do like some friends here and not listen to the singles at all).
About PBD, the final instrumental turn before the final verse, that riff that becomes a unison solo, it really reminds of a unison solo from Raw Dog!! Anyone else??
-
In Pale Blue Dot its Manginis intro and the band. Once I heard that. I knew I was in for a treat.
-
Now that the album is out, did you have any expectations, assumptions or suppositions based on reviews and / or gut feeling that were subversed, be it for the better or for the worse?
My main ones are:
- I expected the first three tracks to be a total shredfest, something reminding of the second half of This Dying Soul so to speak. I was pleasantly surprised to find so much melody in all the three songs.
- Given the subject matter, I expected Pale Blue Dot to be something majestic and uplifting like the end of Illumination Theory. Didn't expect a tune so eerie and menacing (bit of a letdown in relation to the lyrics, I still have to figure out the music itself 'cause this is not a piece for instant and easy listening).
-
Now that the album is out, did you have any expectations, assumptions or suppositions based on reviews and / or gut feeling that were subversed, be it for the better or for the worse?
My main ones are:
- I expected the first three tracks to be a total shredfest, something reminding of the second half of This Dying Soul so to speak. I was pleasantly surprised to find so much melody in all the three songs.
- Given the subject matter, I expected Pale Blue Dot to be something majestic and uplifting like the end of Illumination Theory. Didn't expect a tune so eerie and menacing (bit of a letdown in relation to the lyrics, I still have to figure out the music itself 'cause this is not a piece for instant and easy listening).
In all honesty about PBD. It's the meancing sad part of knowing what we are as humans, in this pale dot.
-
For some reason, when I hear PBD, i can’t shake the thought that it’s Lord Nefaryus singing. :lol
I do like it, but it seems to take more effort to get into, more so than the other songs. Currently BW has shot up in my own internal ranking. I’d say it’s almost as good as AWE, it’s a very close call. The reprise after the piano part is really good.
-
For some reason, when I hear PBD, i can’t shake the thought that it’s Lord Nefaryus singing. :lol
I do like it, but it seems to take more effort to get into, more so than the other songs. Currently BW has shot up in my own internal ranking. I’d say it’s almost as good as AWE, it’s a very close call. The reprise after the piano part is really good.
That's what makes me wonder. I figured too that DT fans would love PBD.
It's amazing though, how much peoples music views have changed....
I'm listening to Scenes and I if they played the entire D/T album I wouldnt complain.
-
So I have been really enjoying the album but is it just me or .....
Does anybody else just tune out while Rudess solos now? His organ solo on FITL is AWESOME but I find the rest of his solos to be completely underwritten.
I loved Rudess on SFAM and SDOIT and I really like TA but am I struggling with him on this album.
I also think AWE could have been elevated to ALL TIME DT CLASSIC had they not had the fade out and just written something to connect it to the part where the music comes back and make it louder and longer.
Anyways, nitpicking stuff there but I do wish DT would just cut out keyboard solo's if JR is not going to put any thought into them.
-
Perhaps JR just played for the song, as opposed to over playing...
That's a GOOD thing in my book.
-
So I have been really enjoying the album but is it just me or .....
Does anybody else just tune out while Rudess solos now? His organ solo on FITL is AWESOME but I find the rest of his solos to be completely underwritten.
I loved Rudess on SFAM and SDOIT and I really like TA but am I struggling with him on this album.
I also think AWE could have been elevated to ALL TIME DT CLASSIC had they not had the fade out and just written something to connect it to the part where the music comes back and make it louder and longer.
Anyways, nitpicking stuff there but I do wish DT would just cut out keyboard solo's if JR is not going to put any thought into them.
Agreed. I am liking the album more and more, but while JP, MM and JM are all killing it all on this record, JR is very much in the background for most of the record, and most of his few solos are pretty forgettable. He is more of a prog guy than metal, and this album is more metal than prog (generally speaking), so this was not his bread and butter, and probably why he did a solo album around the same time.
-
Yeah, I've had similar thoughts. I mostly like the songs, but Jordan's solos on this album leave me cold. A lot of them happen over riffs rather than chord progressions, which I don't think showcases his talent in the best way, and on top of that the backing is often quite simplistic, not giving him all that much to work with. I do think that in the Portnoy era the solos often became more like an obstacle course with very odd and changing meters for Jordan to play over, but here it's almost the opposite extreme with him playing over some very straightforward sections that lack any bite.
-
I mean think of all his kick ass solos in Fatal Tragedy and Beyond This Life or the amazing run in Blind Faith? Where is that Rudess!!?? Melodic and awesome.
This album is just basically void of any of that from him.... the FITL solo and the UA solos are pretty solid. The rest of the album from him is just meh... in terms of solos.
-
I agree that Jordan plays more of a supporting role on this one, and the solos are kinda standard fayre, but I like the organ intro in Viper King. That’s cool.
-
I won't hold it against JR, though, considering how tremendous his work was on TA. :coolio
-
For some reason, when I hear PBD, i can’t shake the thought that it’s Lord Nefaryus singing. :lol
I do like it, but it seems to take more effort to get into, more so than the other songs. Currently BW has shot up in my own internal ranking. I’d say it’s almost as good as AWE, it’s a very close call. The reprise after the piano part is really good.
That's what makes me wonder. I figured too that DT fans would love PBD.
It's amazing though, how much peoples music views have changed....
I'm listening to Scenes and I if they played the entire D/T album I wouldnt complain.
I am surprised too about the split reactions to PBD. It is my favorite on the album.
-
So I have been really enjoying the album but is it just me or .....
Does anybody else just tune out while Rudess solos now? His organ solo on FITL is AWESOME but I find the rest of his solos to be completely underwritten.
I feel the same. I love his organ solos in UA, FITL, and VK, and absolutely adore the supporting piano he plays in all the other tracks, but I'm not sure I can recall a single melody from any of his other solos. All I can say about his S2N outro solo is that it exists. Same with At Wit's End.
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
"Not within his eyes to see
Open up, open up"
Trial of Tears
---------------------
Loved the production on the album, and the run FitL - AWE is superb :metal
Figures the 5-7th position among SDOIT/ADTOE, have to listen more to give it a proper ranking.
-
Although it hasnt been nearly long enough to tell if it'll stand the test of time, I'm confident in saying DoT is easily the best of the Mangini Era. I wasn't keen on the first three songs until I heard the album as a whole, but now they rock. Room 137 is the weakest for me though. Yes, that includes Viper King, which is a fun song. Mangini is on fire, and I like that the bass and kick drums are really loud. At Wit's End is my favorite and I wish Pale Blue Dot was five minutes longer. Despite the silly name, Barstool Warrior is a beautiful song. Really, the only low point is 137. Mangini isn't Ripper Owens level lyricist, but they certainly arent my cup of tea. It's kind of the Never Enough of the album. I didn't hate The Astonishing, but I agree it should have been shorter. Distance Over Time is a nice return to form, and the best album since Ocravarium. What I mean by that is that it's an album where I like all the songs, although admittedly it took a long time for a few on 8VM to click. From SC to TA, there are songs I don't care for and have deleted from my phone. For further reference, I like all the songs on FII. Same deal as with 8VM. Prophets of War will always be terrible though.
9/10
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
"Not within his eyes to see
Open up, open up"
Trial of Tears
---------------------
Loved the production on the album, and the run FitL - AWE is superb :metal
Figures the 5-7th position among SDOIT/ADTOE, have to listen more to give it a proper ranking.
Yep that section immediately reminded me of that heavy section from ToT. Love that they were able to capture a lot of those late 90's/early 2000's vibes with this record.
-
The only thing on this record that reminded me of another DT song is the intro to Wit's, made me think of The Test That Stumped Them All.
-
The only thing on this record that reminded me of another DT song is the intro to Wit's, made me think of The Test That Stumped Them All.
To me, it’s the similarity of the riff in BW to TBOT. Almost sounds blatantly identical to the point it’s the only bit of the song I wish was changed to something a little more original.
-
I get a lot of Six Degrees moments from this album.
-
Not sure if this was brought up, but did anyone else think of ITNOG while listening to PBD? There's one part in the middle of PBD where they play in 15/8 and subdivide it into 3 chunks of 5, then switch it to 5 chunks of 3, which is something they did in the middle of ITNOG as well.
-Marc.
-
The only thing on this record that reminded me of another DT song is the intro to Wit's, made me think of The Test That Stumped Them All.
To me, it’s the similarity of the riff in BW to TBOT. Almost sounds blatantly identical to the point it’s the only bit of the song I wish was changed to something a little more original.
Oh I guess I got lucky there :lol, see I haven't heard TBOT since the year BC&SL came out as I really didn't like it. I think it's the only song outside of FII that I don't know by heart.
-
So I have been really enjoying the album but is it just me or .....
Does anybody else just tune out while Rudess solos now? His organ solo on FITL is AWESOME but I find the rest of his solos to be completely underwritten.
I've felt that way for a while to be honest. For me his most memorable solos are almost always the ones where he doesn't use his ''solo sound'' but instead uses things like organs or pianos.
As for the album, I like it a lot. Even Fall Into To Light which is probably my least favorite is pretty solid. So far I'd say S2N is my favorite song. It's just crazy! Mangini has some my favorite drum groove in that song. Speaking of Mangini, one thing I noticed in Room 137 that I though was cool, is that the trippy vocal section goes from being 4 lines to only 3 at the end which make it so that the vocal lines end up beginning 1 measure earlier every time they repeat. Not sure how to really explain it properly, but I thought it was neat.
I also think that Paralyzed and Pale Blue Dot are the strongest perfomance by James on the album, probably because he stay in a fairly safe range in both song. But his delivery is really good and the melodies are interesting enough that it doesn't feel boring at all.
So I'm going to need more time to digest it all, but so far I'd say it will likely end up ranking in the upper half of their discography for me. Great job Dream Theater! :metal
-
So I have been really enjoying the album but is it just me or .....
Does anybody else just tune out while Rudess solos now? His organ solo on FITL is AWESOME but I find the rest of his solos to be completely underwritten.
I loved Rudess on SFAM and SDOIT and I really like TA but am I struggling with him on this album.
I also think AWE could have been elevated to ALL TIME DT CLASSIC had they not had the fade out and just written something to connect it to the part where the music comes back and make it louder and longer.
Anyways, nitpicking stuff there but I do wish DT would just cut out keyboard solo's if JR is not going to put any thought into them.
Agreed. I am liking the album more and more, but while JP, MM and JM are all killing it all on this record, JR is very much in the background for most of the record, and most of his few solos are pretty forgettable. He is more of a prog guy than metal, and this album is more metal than prog (generally speaking), so this was not his bread and butter, and probably why he did a solo album around the same time.
Good point! That didn't occur to me when I found out he did the album.
-
The only thing on this record that reminded me of another DT song is the intro to Wit's, made me think of The Test That Stumped Them All.
To me, it’s the similarity of the riff in BW to TBOT. Almost sounds blatantly identical to the point it’s the only bit of the song I wish was changed to something a little more original.
Oh I guess I got lucky there :lol, see I haven't heard TBOT since the year BC&SL came out as I really didn't like it. I think it's the only song outside of FII that I don't know by heart.
Haha, that’s funny man! 😊 I think you’re on the right track - stick to BW my friend, while the riff may be similar, is is also vastly superior in my book :tup
-
I'd really like to know if all of the jewel's were missing VK, or if just a batch or two went out. One of my favorites BTW...
-
Gotta say, I’m ready for DT to move on from the “internal struggle” lyrical subject matter. The AA Saga, The Answer Lies Within, These Walls, Panic Attack, The Enemy Inside, Untethered Angel, Paralyzed, Room 137, etc etc. Most of the Awake stuff.
-
I really like Jordan's parts on this album. His piano parts are very well done, and synth progressions are atmospheric and serve the songs well. His use of different sounds is nice and diverse. I do agree about the Hammond organ sounds better for the soloing on this record, but his other patches are cool too. He's a innovator of sound and he did some nice soundscapes on D/T.
-
at wit's end is one of their best songs in the last 15 years. pale blue dot is fun, so is room 137. untethered angel is workmanlike but i'm with it. i don't like fall into the light or s2n. barstool warrior is solid. paralyzed is dece. out of reach is a song on the albu
it's not bad. 6/10. roughly as good/bad as their output since 2007 (i really like the astonishing though)
hi everyone :3
-
I'd really like to know if all of the jewel's were missing VK, or if just a batch or two went out. One of my favorites BTW...
I picked up the standard jewelcase that I saw at Walmart, and it had VK on it. Not listed, but on it. Going to cancel that special request I made for the digipak at the record store. This is so confusing. Did VK just get put on to a bunch of standard copies by accident? The website selling the digipak made a big deal about it having the bonus track. :lol
-
I really like Jordan's parts on this album. His piano parts are very well done, and synth progressions are atmospheric and serve the songs well. His use of different sounds is nice and diverse. I do agree about the Hammond organ sounds better for the soloing on this record, but his other patches are cool too. He's a innovator of sound and he did some nice soundscapes on D/T.
I agree. Really like his parts, even if not that prominent. For example (one of many), the piano player at AWE is excellent, even if in the background.
-
Really solid album. I think At Wit's End is phenomenal and the line where James sings "something's missing" and that whole little section is probably my favourite part of the whole album. The drumming, the guitar, James' voice. Really excellent.
-
This album just continues to grow on me and is rising up the album rankings. Best album since train of thought!
Pale blue dot is finally clicking.. the first half is just amazingly cool.
I’m also loving paralyzed more every time I listen and I’ve already heard it like 25 times haha.
Viper king is so fun... please make more stuff like this!
Bw, s2n, awe, oor just great dt tunes. Love that they brought the cheese back on out of reach... that’s where James shines imo... hair metal cheese. Sounds like an insult but it’s honestly where I love him as a vocalist. He does that far better than sinister stuff.
Very excited!!! So happy to hear Myung loud and clear again! And Petrucci, my favorite musician really brought the goods on this one. His solos are really hitting home now. Well done gents!
-
at wit's end is one of their best songs in the last 15 years. pale blue dot is fun, so is room 137. untethered angel is workmanlike but i'm with it. i don't like fall into the light or s2n. barstool warrior is solid. paralyzed is dece. out of reach is a song on the albu
it's not bad. 6/10. roughly as good/bad as their output since 2007 (i really like the astonishing though)
hi everyone :3
:heart
-
My thoughts of the day.
I dared to look at the Facebook comments on the Dream Theater page, and they were EXTREMELY positive!
The first slightly negative comments showed up something around the 40# position, and I still have to find one "bring Portnoy back" whine.
That's surprising...I like this album but for me is nowhere as good as The Astonishing or ADTOE
Clearly "playing safe" helps at least with the Internet..ehm...fans base
I know really love Pale Blu Dot.
It's one of the (several) cases where I moved my judgment from "what the hells is this" to "wow" in 8-10 listens...
It really takes some effort to digest, but it's worth the pain.
When it clicks it's truly a masterpiece..
Even the instrumental section, that sometimes feels a bit "clichè", has its moments of genius...
There are moments where it really feels like being in a space ship spinning out of control close to a black hole..:) :)
Love it
-
Well, I absolutely disliked this Untethered Angel song and still do (a bit less, as I got used to it), but, damn, the album just gets better from track 2 up until the inevitable ballad but then returns with pretty solid PBD. My favs - S2N, AWE and that intro to PBD.
-
So in TA, MM drummed two simultaneous snare rolls to simulate a marching band for the song Astonishing.
In PBD at the 3:31 mark, MM does a marching snare roll. Then at 3:45, another snare comes in. That's when one realizes that he is playing one-handed snare rolls again. LOL
-
The only thing on this record that reminded me of another DT song is the intro to Wit's, made me think of The Test That Stumped Them All.
Try to sing Losing Time over the piano part in Barstool Warrior :P
-
I haven't seen anyone say this yet, but the intro to Barstool reminds me of Glasgow Kiss from JP's solo album..
-
I admit Pale Blue Dot's first impression was pretty bad for me. It grows fastly. I still think outro is the weakest part.
Absolutely agree here. As the "true" album closer, this is probably the most underwhelming outro among the rest of the discography. I was pretty disappointed on my first listen, and I was very relieved that Viper King followed immediately, because it very quickly washed away that feeling.
After many many listens, I still feel that it's not as good as other outros, but the solo in a vacuum is pretty solid. And the rest of the song has really really grown on me as well. I find myself randomly blurting out "GOD CREATOR" during the day.
While I actually really like PBD, I wonder if the outro might actually be enhanced with some more of the “space” samples that begin the track... While I’m not crazy about a ridiculous amount of samples, I think a few seconds more of the samples heard at the beginning to round it out may have helped in the overall vibe and subject matter, and a good way to bring it all together and finish it up. Again, nothing overblown, just enough to tie it all together...
-
Amazon delivered this yesterday, and I gave it its first listen last night.
Initial thoughts:
Hmm - not sure I like the black border around the digipack edition. Is it supposed to make it look classy? It doesn't. But at least the booklet isn't glued to the case this time, so that's something.
First three songs I'm already familiar with, of course, but they sound great on a proper hi-fi rather than on my phone. The production here is stellar, and I don't think DT have ever sounded so good.
Barstool Warrior - not sure about this one, needs more listens. Room 137 and S2N are both fantastic, I love the way they sound like DT without sounding like DT. Am loving this so far.
I don't like the way At Wit's End fades out - DT songs shouldn't fade out IMO. Out of Reach made no impression on me whatsoever, and Pale Blue Dot - Wow! This is going to take repeated listening to really appreciate, but on first hearing, a classic in the making. Viper King is fun, and actually does fit in surprising well with the rest of the album.
It left me exhausted, this really is a relentless barrage on the senses. It's not only heavy, it's heavy in a new way for DT, they really have stripped back their sound into something much more direct. It'll be interesting to see how well this one ages.
It left me exhausted. That's often a sign of excessive compression or "brickwalling". Be interesting to see what the next few listens reveal.
So on first listen - yes, I like. Roll on the tour!
-
Okay, ranking time!
10. Room 137 - Might be one of my least favourite DT songs, overall feeling just doesn't do anything for me.
9. Out Of Reach - Nice ballad but not even near from their bests like Wither
8. Pale Blue Dot - I think they really lost their songwriting in this one. Just riffs after riffs and it sounds like everybody wants to do a solo after another.
7. Unethered Angel - Nice song, reminds me of OTBOA
6. S2N - Really great intro but verses are just chaos and not really melodic. Outro slays
5. Paralyzed - This has a potential to be one of my faves from these more straightforward songs but it lacks a good chorus. The chorus sounds like pre-chorus and then it goes to another verse :'(
4. Fall Into the Light - Same arguments than in Paralyzed. It could be really strong song but the chorus is so weak... Metallica part is gold!
3. Barstool Warrior - This could be from The Astonishing but it could as well be from I&W. That song is just like what Astonishing should have been, strong individual tracks which could have connected musically and lyrically.
2. Viper King - The song I find listen a lot lately. Only argument is that James's voice in the first verse sounds quite bad.
1. At Wit's End - Liking this song more and more. Definitely their best song for a while.
-
Giving the album a break for a couple of days. I've listened to it so many times since last week I'm worried about getting worn out with it :lol
I'll cleanse the palate with some other music for a little while. If it's still as good when I come back to it then I know this album is a winner.
-
This is nerdy (from Mangini?)
In the instrumental section of PBD, there is a section in 5/4 player in triplets followed by a section in 3/4 played in quintuplets.
A sort of "reverse metrics" on a very strange timing.
The intro riff should be in 19/16, have to check if they used this metric before* (surely not for such a "relevant" riff..)
* Yes, there a couple of bars in the final instrumental section of Home
-
I have had time to get several listens in and so far I'm not able to decide what I think. Ultimately I have yet to form an emotional connection to album. It's a fun and energetic album to listen too but nothing is sticking with me. I love it when I'm listening to it and then it finishes and I find it forgettable. Now I wouldn't be surprised that one day the album just clicks with me but it hasn't happened yet.
Pros
- Best production and drum sound since Mangini joined. If ADTOE of DT had this drum sound those albums would 100x better.
- Riffs- Man JP and JM have some nasty riffs on this albums
Cons
- JR definitely took a back seat on this album. Unlike their ToT which I think is comparable he slayed on that album. Outside of Viper King, I can't think of one really cool JR spot on the album
- As good as the drums sound, some of the songs could have had a better vocal mix
- Room 137- This song does nothing for me.
-
One thing I think that is preventing me from enjoying this album as much as I want to is the wall of sound. I miss the analog recording of the 1970s so much, I so wish DT could have recorded on that equipment, it would have sounded amazing. Some of my favorite-sounding records ever were recorded back then. That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
After listening several times, ironically I now appreciate the opening 3 tracks more than I did when they were released as singles. Funny. Pale Blue Dot: even though they've kinda jumped the shark on epics, I totally could see this song stetched out to a great 15-20 minute journey. MORE VERSES for sure would have been welcome for such an epic topic.
-
One thing I think that is preventing me from enjoying this album as much as I want to is the wall of sound. I miss the analog recording of the 1970s so much, I so wish DT could have recorded on that equipment, it would have sounded amazing. Some of my favorite-sounding records ever were recorded back then. That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
After listening several times, ironically I now appreciate the opening 3 tracks more than I did when they were released as singles. Funny. Pale Blue Dot: even though they've kinda jumped the shark on epics, I totally could see this song stetched out to a great 15-20 minute journey. MORE VERSES for sure would have been welcome for such an epic topic.
I agree with both points.
This album with analog recording and/or a warmer mix would have sounded so amazing.
I have come around to liking Pale Blue Dot, but it's funny, because as many songs as the band have done where it is often said, "it is too long," that is one that is too short. It's like the song finally gets going and then it's over. It could have been an 11-12 minute gem rather than the good 8 minute song that it is, IMO.
-
I kinda get what people are saying about JR taking a back seat on this record. It's a heavier record, especially after something like TA, his parts are definitely working to complement the guitar, bass, and drums most of the time on D/T. But, he is doing a lot of subtle things, and doing them very well. I appreciate the fact that JR has the security in himself and his playing that he is comfortable taking a backseat at times. There are a lot of moments on this record where a casual listener might not even notice JR is playing during a section, but he's tucked in the mix adding texture or doubling up on a riff to fill out more frequency space.
-
That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
I must say I haven't totally loved the mix like most, its not bad but it's not their best IMO however when I finally put this on in my car I feel like it worked so well that I see what others are saying now.
-
That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
I must say I haven't totally loved the mix like most, its not bad but it's not their best IMO however when I finally put this on in my car I feel like it worked so well that I see what others are saying now.
It's a very guitar/drums heavy mix. While I don't think it's one of their better mixes, it works for the album.
-
I don’t have a problem with JR’s playing on the album... I just think his solos are totally just wanking and uninteresting outside of the organ solos and the UA section.
-
I've listened to this album a good 15 times now.
Bar Stool Warrior is still my favorite track.
Viper King has grown a lot on me.
I'm still not understanding the love for Pale Blue Dot. It's a decent song, but I'm not hearing the 'masterpiece' that many are claiming it to be.
I find myself skipping Room 137 every time. That song does absolutely nothing for me.
I still somehow haven't noticed Owen's "Wow" :(
Prediction: Paralyzed will be the upcoming tour's opener.
I like this album a lot
-
Agreed on PBD and Room 137.
-
I still somehow haven't noticed Owen's "Wow" :(
Listen on headphones.
S2N - 4:01 into the song. The last pause they take right before the chorus comes back in. In the middle of the pause there is a faint "wow".
-
Got about 10 listens under my belt this week and I think I'm starting to discover where this album sits for me in the grand scheme.
Songs are largely well written, the mix whilst one of the better modern era mixes, is still very tiring and the loudness rarely ever lets up. One thing I am happy about is that it's massively more memorable than DT12 and particularly TA. Probably my second favourite Mangini era album after ADTOE.
If I had to rank them I'd probably go with this:
At Wits End: I agree that this should have been the last track, choosing on that live fade in would have been such an interesting and memorable way to end the album. I love JRs organ work on this especially, adds a great sense of melody to the heavy verses. Solos in the middle have that TOT vibe which I also love.
Room 137: Good God I love me some of those riffs! And the solo from Petrucci is incredibly fun. Vocoder vocals are something a bit different for DT and for me, it works. Lyrics do nothing for me, unfortunately.
Barstool Warrior: Not really sure I'm on board with the "this could be from Images" opinions, but it sure is lovely. Some beautiful chord choices and again, JR adds some true magic to proceedings. That Six Degrees sounding piano break... Wow. Whoever said this reminded them of Fish era Marillion were spot on. Pure comfort food DT.
Paralyzed: Hello solo JLB! This is probably the best "single" DT have released in a very, very long time. Catchy, groovy and memorable and a great solo from JP.
Pale Blue Dot: Could have been so much more. The individual parts are great and the instrumental section is off the chart, but as a closer, nothing really made that much of a statement, probably due to the whole thing moving from part to part so quickly. Could have done with a nice slow section and maybe a Count of Tuscany style finale, but hey, what you gonna do?
S2N: Eh it was ok. Actually, some of it was great but the verses didn't really do anything for me. The bass riff didn't really seem all that, but the chorus was kinda cool and the instrumental sections were huge!
Out of Reach: Didn't really like the breathy singing on the first verse and the middle section left something to be desired. I usually like their ballads and to be fair, the verse melody was pretty good but I dunno... Felt just a short walk from being something really good.
Untethered Angel: It was ok. Felt like a "modern DT's greatest hits" without really doing much what beyond that. The effects on James' voice didn't do anything to help, for me at least.
Fall Into the Light: Instrumental section was incredible, one of their best, but nothing else really drew me in. I hate to say it but James' vocals kinda put me right off this one. Can't really explain why, just found them to be slightly unpleasant. I really wish I could put it any clearer than that but I can't.
Viper King: Lots of fun at first (sounded like it would be more or less at home on FII with some production tweaks) but replay value dropped right off. Again, vocals did absolutely nothing to help.
All in all I definitely enjoy this album. There's more to enjoy than there is to detract. One unfortunate thing I've had to come to terms with this time around is that I haven't really enjoyed JLB's studio vocals since ADTOE. Personal taste I guess but he sounds different somehow these days and I just don't enjoy his delivery anymore.
That said, he is now their best lyricist and I'd be super into a DT album with just James lyrics.
-
I kinda get what people are saying about JR taking a back seat on this record. It's a heavier record, especially after something like TA, his parts are definitely working to complement the guitar, bass, and drums most of the time on D/T. But, he is doing a lot of subtle things, and doing them very well. I appreciate the fact that JR has the security in himself and his playing that he is comfortable taking a backseat at times. There are a lot of moments on this record where a casual listener might not even notice JR is playing during a section, but he's tucked in the mix adding texture or doubling up on a riff to fill out more frequency space.
He had such a different role on The Astonishing. TA and D/T are like two sides of the same coin, for me. If you want lots of James and Jordan... TA. If you want lots of Mike and JP... D/T.
-
D/T has lots of good piano work. The piano breaks in AWE and BW were spot on in the emotion conveyed and JR contributed to the grandeur of the AWE outro.
Many have been calling for more JR mood work, and that is basically what he brought to this album.
-
I still somehow haven't noticed Owen's "Wow" :(
Listen on headphones.
S2N - 4:01 into the song. The last pause they take right before the chorus comes back in. In the middle of the pause there is a faint "wow".
:lol :lol Just heard it. I'm surprised I never heard that when listening through my home system, car, or Bose Mini Soundlink, yet it somehow stands out on my shitty $14 Bluetooth desk earbuds.
-
D/T has lots of good piano work. The piano breaks in AWE and BW were spot on in the emotion conveyed and JR contributed to the grandeur of the AWE outro.
Many have been calling for more JR mood work, and that is basically what he brought to this album.
The background supporting parts are also amazing. The piano in Paralyzed and the background organ all over Viper King are also highlights
-
D/T has lots of good piano work. The piano breaks in AWE and BW were spot on in the emotion conveyed and JR contributed to the grandeur of the AWE outro.
Many have been calling for more JR mood work, and that is basically what he brought to this album.
I agree, he is definitely playing a different role here in comparison to the last record, but he shows a lot of tact with this record.
:lol :lol Just heard it. I'm surprised I never heard that when listening through my home system, car, or Bose Mini Soundlink, yet it somehow stands out on my shitty $14 Bluetooth desk earbuds.
I can never hear it in my car, I think the background noise of the road just covers it up, but I can totally hear it on my crappy Apple earbuds! :lol
-
Not to mention that JR is basically the "music" of PBD, as JP / JR / MM was playing locktight as a rhythm section.
-
D/T has lots of good piano work. The piano breaks in AWE and BW were spot on in the emotion conveyed and JR contributed to the grandeur of the AWE outro.
Many have been calling for more JR mood work, and that is basically what he brought to this album.
The background supporting parts are also amazing. The piano in Paralyzed and the background organ all over Viper King are also highlights
I've dug the albums when JR was front and center and his sound was very pronounced, he's truly great at what he does. This album is just another feather in his cap because it seems to be that his initial priority was to create an atmosphere for JP and JMX to thrive in.....then compliment them. Yes, he has some solo spots but even those moments are far more controlled than in the past.
I really like his approach here.....like JP seems to have done......it's just a refined effort that showcases their understanding of music.
-
I've dug the albums when JR was front and center and his sound was very pronounced, he's truly great at what he does. This album is just another feather in his cap because it seems to be that his initial priority was to create an atmosphere for JP and JMX to thrive in.....then compliment them. Yes, he has some solo spots but even those moments are far more controlled than in the past.
I really like his approach here.....like JP seems to have done......it's just a refined effort that showcases their understanding of music.
I can imagine in the studio and during live performances: "ooooh John, what a nice solo"
-
One thing I think that is preventing me from enjoying this album as much as I want to is the wall of sound. I miss the analog recording of the 1970s so much, I so wish DT could have recorded on that equipment, it would have sounded amazing. Some of my favorite-sounding records ever were recorded back then. That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
After listening several times, ironically I now appreciate the opening 3 tracks more than I did when they were released as singles. Funny. Pale Blue Dot: even though they've kinda jumped the shark on epics, I totally could see this song stetched out to a great 15-20 minute journey. MORE VERSES for sure would have been welcome for such an epic topic.
I agree with both points.
This album with analog recording and/or a warmer mix would have sounded so amazing.
I have come around to liking Pale Blue Dot, but it's funny, because as many songs as the band have done where it is often said, "it is too long," that is one that is too short. It's like the song finally gets going and then it's over. It could have been an 11-12 minute gem rather than the good 8 minute song that it is, IMO.
I have thought this about PBD since the first listen and still now. It just almost NEEDS to be longer.
-
I'm still not understanding the love for Pale Blue Dot. It's a decent song, but I'm not hearing the 'masterpiece' that many are claiming it to be.
Funny because that's how I feel about BW. The song has grown on me a little more, but it's still rank last from the album for me.
-
This is nerdy (from Mangini?)
In the instrumental section of PBD, there is a section in 5/4 player in triplets followed by a section in 3/4 played in quintuplets.
A sort of "reverse metrics" on a very strange timing.
The intro riff should be in 19/16, have to check if they used this metric before* (surely not for such a "relevant" riff..)
* Yes, there a couple of bars in the final instrumental section of Home
I brought this up on the previous page, how they used quintuplets in 3 and switched to triplets in 5, and was something they've used before in "In The Name Of God" but with different phrasing.
-Marc.
-
I've dug the albums when JR was front and center and his sound was very pronounced, he's truly great at what he does. This album is just another feather in his cap because it seems to be that his initial priority was to create an atmosphere for JP and JMX to thrive in.....then compliment them. Yes, he has some solo spots but even those moments are far more controlled than in the past.
I really like his approach here.....like JP seems to have done......it's just a refined effort that showcases their understanding of music.
I can imagine in the studio and during live performances: "ooooh John, what a nice solo"
:lol
-
One thing I think that is preventing me from enjoying this album as much as I want to is the wall of sound. I miss the analog recording of the 1970s so much, I so wish DT could have recorded on that equipment, it would have sounded amazing. Some of my favorite-sounding records ever were recorded back then. That said, the drums and bass sound big and powerful on my car stereo.
After listening several times, ironically I now appreciate the opening 3 tracks more than I did when they were released as singles. Funny. Pale Blue Dot: even though they've kinda jumped the shark on epics, I totally could see this song stetched out to a great 15-20 minute journey. MORE VERSES for sure would have been welcome for such an epic topic.
I agree with both points.
This album with analog recording and/or a warmer mix would have sounded so amazing.
I have come around to liking Pale Blue Dot, but it's funny, because as many songs as the band have done where it is often said, "it is too long," that is one that is too short. It's like the song finally gets going and then it's over. It could have been an 11-12 minute gem rather than the good 8 minute song that it is, IMO.
I have thought this about PBD since the first listen and still now. It just almost NEEDS to be longer.
Methinks it is in the danger of becoming really wanky if it's longer. as it is really focused a lot on technicality than a narrative.
-
I appreciate the band taking this more "concise" approach, I feel like no songs on the record overstay their welcome. Could AWE or PBD be longer? Sure. But I'm good with them as is.
-
I appreciate the band taking this more "concise" approach, I feel like no songs on the record overstay their welcome. Could AWE or PBD be longer? Sure. But I'm good with them as is.
Same. I generally love the mega-epics. And while they certainly could have made some of the songs longer--PBD probalby stands out most in this regard--they certainly did not have to.
And here's the thing with the way they write: They write a complete song instrumentally first, and then once it is "done," they write a vocal melody, and then lyrics. With PBD, for example, they wrote the entire instrumental part of the song, felt it was done, and then wrote the vocal melody and lyrics. Instrumentally, they felt that the song did what it needed to do and said what it needed to say. Arguably, maybe that one was a case where, after they got deep into the lyrics, they could have gone back and said, "You know, with this subject matter, there is more we can do here. Why don't we add a few more minutes and a few more sections to accommodate it." But it is what it is. That's the way they write. And, to me, even though in retrospect I see what they could have done to make it longer, the song doesn't sound incomplete at all, so I'm happy with what we got.
-
PBD is the only track that feels like it could have been longer IMO, the rest all feel just right.
-
I appreciate the band taking this more "concise" approach, I feel like no songs on the record overstay their welcome. Could AWE or PBD be longer? Sure. But I'm good with them as is.
Same. I generally love the mega-epics. And while they certainly could have made some of the songs longer--PBD probalby stands out most in this regard--they certainly did not have to.
And here's the thing with the way they write: They write a complete song instrumentally first, and then once it is "done," they write a vocal melody, and then lyrics. With PBD, for example, they wrote the entire instrumental part of the song, felt it was done, and then wrote the vocal melody and lyrics. Instrumentally, they felt that the song did what it needed to do and said what it needed to say. Arguably, maybe that one was a case where, after they got deep into the lyrics, they could have gone back and said, "You know, with this subject matter, there is more we can do here. Why don't we add a few more minutes and a few more sections to accommodate it." But it is what it is. That's the way they write. And, to me, even though in retrospect I see what they could have done to make it longer, the song doesn't sound incomplete at all, so I'm happy with what we got.
I agree, if they made it longer it may have fallen into the Misunderstood trap where it seems long for the sake of it, or Ministry of Lost Souls in my opinion. I like how PBD feels epic and tight at the same time.
-
I don’t have a problem with JR’s playing on the album... I just think his solos are totally just wanking and uninteresting outside of the organ solos and the UA section.
I wish he would retire that pitch wheel like Hammett should retire his wah pedal. Would love to hear Jordan when forced to make other note choices.
-
I wish he would retire that pitch wheel like Hammett should retire his wah pedal. Would love to hear Jordan when forced to make other note choices.
That's basically asking Kirk to retire from playing music :lol (I think he should, though... and take Lars with him :P)
-
D/T track by track: Barstool Warrior with JP and JR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LV08MGIQhI)
-
I don’t have a problem with JR’s playing on the album... I just think his solos are totally just wanking and uninteresting outside of the organ solos and the UA section.
I wish he would retire that pitch wheel like Hammett should retire his wah pedal. Would love to hear Jordan when forced to make other note choices.
That's why I usually prefer his solos when he's playing piano and organ.
As for PBD, I think the reason why people are saying it should be longer is not because it's too short. It's because the ending falls flat, leaving people unsatisfied. A similarly short but more effective ending could've improved things without turning the piece into a bloated 15 minute epic.
-
Ummm.....hello? This is a thing. (https://twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1100438126349168641)
-
D/T track by track: Barstool Warrior with JP and JR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LV08MGIQhI)
Cool video, thanks for posting!
Love what JP mentions here about his melodic lead lines in this song. I love his tasteful playing throughout this one.
-
DT and Rush's 14th studio albums are the only albums in each bands catalog that feature skulls on the album cover and artwork.
Distance Over Time and Roll The Bones both designed by Hugh Syme. Coincidence or Nugget??
I also posted this on the DT Universe page on FB.
-
As for JR's playing on this album, I think he "took a backseat" to a good effect this time. His playing serves ambiance and atmosphere more than it did on numerous previous records, it's very understated but tasteful - think Richard Barbieri of Porcupine Tree who is a master of that. There's a lot of great undertones and atmospheric sounds he does in Barstool Warrior, Room 137 and elsewhere on the album. I also like the extensive use of Hammond, gave his palette more color I think.
As for song lengths, I think they finally (after a long while) managed to not write a single 10+ of 15+ min song and yet make most of them (AWE, S2N, PBD, even Barstool Warrior) feel longer than they are owing to variety of musical themes and changes of tempo and mood in them. They feel longer and not for dragging, but for their content.
-
Not sure if this was posted:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_reveals_how_his_guitar_solos_were_recorded_differently_on_new_dream_theater_album.html
Good interview.... explains why there are some sections with no rhythm guitar to help capture the live sound vibe. I loved that they did this...
-
Not sure if this was posted:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_reveals_how_his_guitar_solos_were_recorded_differently_on_new_dream_theater_album.html
Good interview.... explains why there are some sections with no rhythm guitar to help capture the live sound vibe. I loved that they did this...
Yeah. I was just thinking about that yesterday when listening to the album while driving. And I was thinking about whether they will drop the click and play a little more loosely on this tour because of it. But there are some parts where there is definitely a backing guitar track, and necessarily so. For instance, those huge backing chords are part of the huge sound during the part that starts about about 4:44 in Fall Into the Light, which is my favorite part of the song.
-
I know this is old news to many (because I found it while digging through threads I'd missed!) but I had no idea Room 137 was about Wolfgang Pauli.
My genuine best guess up to that point was that it was about a killer robot. Probably due to the cover art, that one - but the never ending number line sounded like maybe someone was programmed to kill 137 people? Knowing it's about someone who was genuinely obsessed with that number (and that it's a pretty interesting number, and that the song is in 137 tempo!) has just made the song significantly cooler. And hey, I loved it back in the killer robot days.
Not sure if this was posted:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_reveals_how_his_guitar_solos_were_recorded_differently_on_new_dream_theater_album.html
Good interview.... explains why there are some sections with no rhythm guitar to help capture the live sound vibe. I loved that they did this...
I have always low-level wanted them to do that. It's never irritated me, but I've always felt like it'd sound great and give the bass more opportunity to cut through. It works so well!
-
I really thought more people would genuinely geek out over the Wolfgang Pauli storyline behind the song. :dunno:
-
I know this is old news to many (because I found it while digging through threads I'd missed!) but I had no idea Room 137 was about Wolfgang Pauli.
I too had no idea (I am a physics buff, but apparently not that much of a buff since I let that slip past by me) and now knowing this makes the song infinitely cooler! Awesome choice of a subject.
-
For instance, those huge backing chords are part of the huge sound during the part that starts about about 4:44 in Fall Into the Light, which is my favorite part of the song.
That section is one of the best moments of the album :metal
Epic fail from any audience who won't sing along to that! who ho ho oh-hoooo, who ho ho oh-hoooo...... :hefdaddy
-
Jordan does a ton of cool things underneath the music. When I listened with great headphones, I was hearing all kids of new stuff from him that I wasn't hearing in my car. I think that's part of how awesome JR is. He can add an element to the song to branch it out even more. His solos are great. I think we get spoiled by his virtuosity. I think he kept things simpler in regards to tonality this time around. He played to the music and within the song...which is a good thing. I don't understand the disappointment some have expressed towards the keyboard solos on this record. I think the solos are great.
Mangini is a powerhouse. This is his best work with DT. He's always been a hard hitter (remember his work with Steve Vai?) but he is so precise with each stroke on the drum. Each note has a purpose. Plus, he approaches his compositions as being linear to the music. It's different than Portnoy and that's good. Not saying one is better or more preferable than the other. It's another approach to playing drums with the music of DT. I think he's come into his own with DT on this album and he fits better now musically than he previously did.
-
Jordan does a ton of cool things underneath the music. When I listened with great headphones, I was hearing all kids of new stuff from him that I wasn't hearing in my car. I think that's part of how awesome JR is. He can add an element to the song to branch it out even more. His solos are great. I think we get spoiled by his virtuosity. I think he kept things simpler in regards to tonality this time around. He played to the music and within the song...which is a good thing. I don't understand the disappointment some have expressed towards the keyboard solos on this record. I think the solos are great.
Mangini is a powerhouse. This is his best work with DT. He's always been a hard hitter (remember his work with Steve Vai?) but he is so precise with each stroke on the drum. Each note has a purpose. Plus, he approaches his compositions as being linear to the music. It's different than Portnoy and that's good. Not saying one is better or more preferable than the other. It's another approach to playing drums with the music of DT. I think he's come into his own with DT on this album and he fits better now musically than he previously did.
Do you like the Rudess solo at the end of S2N? It just seems like total wanking and a solo we have heard 1000 times from him. That one is my biggest complaint but there are a few others where the same issue applies.
The atmospheric parts, organ parts, and piano parts are great. I just feel like when I listen to a song on this album while Rudess is soloing I'm like "ok lets just get to the JP solo"
-
I just wanted to comment on the album's artwork, which I love. I saw some people mention on YouTube comments that the artwork is about technology taking over the world. Sure, that's an obvious take, but I view it a little differently. To me, the robot and skull are merely metaphors for future and past. And that can take on a variety of deeper meanings -- whether it's a person's emotional struggle with leaving their past behind to find future happiness, or mankind's need to learn from past mistakes to give the world a brighter future, etc. The lyrics for "Barstool Warrior" are a good example of the leave-the-past-behind theme, while the lyrics for "Pale Blue Dot" are a good example of the mankind-learning from-past-mistakes theme. You can even take it a step further by incorporating the album title: the more time that passes, the more distance people put between their old selves. Just curious how other people interpret the artwork?
-
D/T track by track: Barstool Warrior with JP and JR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LV08MGIQhI)
Looking forward to the At Wit’s End video to see if they explain the weird fade out/silence/fade in/fade out ending. Seems utterly pointless (and a tiny bit irritating) to me but will be interested to see the thought process behind it. The song is awesome regardless obviously.
-
Jordan does a ton of cool things underneath the music. When I listened with great headphones, I was hearing all kids of new stuff from him that I wasn't hearing in my car. I think that's part of how awesome JR is. He can add an element to the song to branch it out even more. His solos are great. I think we get spoiled by his virtuosity. I think he kept things simpler in regards to tonality this time around. He played to the music and within the song...which is a good thing. I don't understand the disappointment some have expressed towards the keyboard solos on this record. I think the solos are great.
Mangini is a powerhouse. This is his best work with DT. He's always been a hard hitter (remember his work with Steve Vai?) but he is so precise with each stroke on the drum. Each note has a purpose. Plus, he approaches his compositions as being linear to the music. It's different than Portnoy and that's good. Not saying one is better or more preferable than the other. It's another approach to playing drums with the music of DT. I think he's come into his own with DT on this album and he fits better now musically than he previously did.
Do you like the Rudess solo at the end of S2N? It just seems like total wanking and a solo we have heard 1000 times from him. That one is my biggest complaint but there are a few others where the same issue applies.
The atmospheric parts, organ parts, and piano parts are great. I just feel like when I listen to a song on this album while Rudess is soloing I'm like "ok lets just get to the JP solo"
I do. It's a throwback to The Dark Eternal Night. I like a metal groove with the solo on top. We've heard it before but I happen to like it. Is it wanking? I guess so.
-
The atmospheric parts, organ parts, and piano parts are great. I just feel like when I listen to a song on this album while Rudess is soloing I'm like "ok lets just get to the JP solo"
Agreed. The guitar is so much nicer on the ears when it comes to soloing, unless it's done on the hammond or piano.
I have a friend that just can't get into DT because of the keyboard solo's, but he can see the talent in the band. I will eventually force feed him D/T over a few beers. He's done that to me with Ghost and Metallica... Now it's my turn! :xbones
-
The S2N ending solo is the low point of the album for me. Which is a shame, because as tacked on as that coda is, the syncopated riff itself is actually pretty cool. It's just that Jordan's solo doesn't do much with the underlying rhythm at all and in fact distracts from it. Not a good fit at all.
For the record, I found the TDEN coda equally unnecessary and also a low point of that album.
-
Out of Reach was reminding me of something for the longest time (all 4 days it's been out), and it just dawned on me: there are parts of the vocal melody that are very similar to Tale as Old as Time from Beauty and the Beast.
"Try to find the words
None sit right with me
Air of confidence
Beauty and the Beast"
And now I can't unhear it
-
Wrong thread.
-
IMHO, this is best DT album in years. I've listened to it 6 times in 2 days all the way through. Love the solos and overall sound mix. Definitely feels like JR's role is downplayed here though. HD version as mentioned in the other thread(s) definitely sounds better than the standard version also.
-
Not sure if this was posted:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_reveals_how_his_guitar_solos_were_recorded_differently_on_new_dream_theater_album.html
Good interview.... explains why there are some sections with no rhythm guitar to help capture the live sound vibe. I loved that they did this...
Thanks for sharing. I really think this approach is why this album is speaking to me so much right now. It gives all the guys a chance to shine — letting them provide the atmosphere instead of layering to create it.
-
Out of Reach was reminding me of something for the longest time (all 4 days it's been out), and it just dawned on me: there are parts of the vocal melody that are very similar to Tale as Old as Time from Beauty and the Beast.
With how many times I listened to this and everything I read in this forum, it sure feels a lot longer than 4 days lol
-
Out of Reach was reminding me of something for the longest time (all 4 days it's been out), and it just dawned on me: there are parts of the vocal melody that are very similar to Tale as Old as Time from Beauty and the Beast.
"Try to find the words
None sit right with me
Air of confidence
Beauty and the Beast"
And now I can't unhear it
Glad I'm not the only one. That caught my attention on the first listen!
-
I still somehow haven't noticed Owen's "Wow" :(
Listen on headphones.
S2N - 4:01 into the song. The last pause they take right before the chorus comes back in. In the middle of the pause there is a faint "wow".
:lol :lol Just heard it. I'm surprised I never heard that when listening through my home system, car, or Bose Mini Soundlink, yet it somehow stands out on my shitty $14 Bluetooth desk earbuds.
Same thing with me. Of course I would have rather gone through my whole life without hearing it.
-
Holy shit balls wow! Ok I absolutely hated TA, and this was a very long wait until they released something really good. This album has so much from their whole career, it’s a must for any fan. It’s heavy, technical without being too technical, and JlB just about proved every hater wrong with his vocal performance. And that JP tone, that Myung tone, and finally, finally absolutely killer drums!
Yes Paralyzed sounds like Breaking Benjamin and Chevelle, and the RHCP version of Higher ground, but it’s still a great song. Can’t pick a favorite, this album just rocks !
-
So JR was the one who came up with the main melody of BW.
-
Oh yeah room 137 intro sounds like Beautiful People, but I don’t care because it makes me head bang so hard!
-
Holy shit balls wow! Ok I absolutely hated TA, and this was a very long wait until they released something really good. This album has so much from their whole career, it’s a must for any fan. It’s heavy, technical without being too technical, and JlB just about proved everybhater wrong with his vocal performance. And that JP tone, that Myung tone, and finally, finally absolutely killer drums!
Yes Paraluzed sounds like Breaking Benjamin and Chevelle, and the RHCP version of Higher ground, but it’s still a great song. Can’t pick a favorite, this album just rocks !
I think you will find that this album is not for every Dream Theater fan... sure a lot of people fawn over it but there are quite a few feeling a bit disappointed in it too
I have listened to it three times so far and don't really have much desire to listen again. Don't know why as that never happens with DT. I will of course and also hope to get to see them live... might help me connect more
I have much more desire to go back and listen to The Astonishing which is an album that to me let's everyone shine, espescially JLB and JR who are not as suited for this album.
Composition, instrumentation, feeling, a production that let's the music breathe.... I find everything soo much better on TA
But then I came to Dream Theater back when Images and Words was released as a prog fan mostly.
I hope it will grow on me D/T but I have small hopes of it becoming a favorite as of now it sits in the bottom tier. But bottom tier DT is still better than most...
-
Holy shit balls wow! Ok I absolutely hated TA, and this was a very long wait until they released something really good. This album has so much from their whole career, it’s a must for any fan. It’s heavy, technical without being too technical, and JlB just about proved everybhater wrong with his vocal performance. And that JP tone, that Myung tone, and finally, finally absolutely killer drums!
Yes Paraluzed sounds like Breaking Benjamin and Chevelle, and the RHCP version of Higher ground, but it’s still a great song. Can’t pick a favorite, this album just rocks !
I think you will find that this album is not for every Dream Theater fan... sure a lot of people fawn over it but there are quite a few feeling a bit disappointed in it too
I have listened to it three times so far and don't really have much desire to listen again. Don't know why as that never happens with DT. I will of course and also hope to get to see them live... might help me connect more
I have much more desire to go back and listen to The Astonishing which is an album that to me let's everyone shine, espescially JLB and JR who are not as suited for this album.
Composition, instrumentation, feeling, a production that let's the music breathe.... I find everything soo much better on TA
But then I came to Dream Theater back when Images and Words was released as a prog fan mostly.
I hope it will grow on me D/T but I have small hopes of it becoming a favorite as of now it sits in the bottom tier. But bottom tier DT is still better than most...
Totally get where you’re coming from. This album has been on rotation since Friday so I guess it’s been at least 4 or 10 listens. I’m a metal head, but I always loved progressive rock, and the prog aspect is what made me love DT after the initial heavy tone. Now I was a late “bloomer”, I was introduced to DT back in 05 or so with the Budokan DVD, so TOT holds a special place. Maybe I just wanted another balls to the wall metal album and this delivers.
Purist prog lovers wont like the one-dimensional metal feel of this album, it reminds me the reception to SC back in 07, it was just too heavy, yet it had ITPOE and MOTLS to please the prog heads. This album is definitely more TOT since well, TOT. I’m just rambling over whisky right now lol!
-
One dimensional metal feel?
Barstool Warrior?
S2n?
At Wit's End?
Out of Reach?
Viper King?
I don't get it.
-
One dimensional metal feel?
Barstool Warrior?
S2n?
At Wit's End?
Out of Reach?
Viper King?
I don't get it.
Well, I don't think it's a problem of "variety"...there's plenty of different and good stuff in D/T.
But it's clearly a riff-groove driven album, and it's not a melody driven album (that does not mean that there are NO good melodies...)
TA was quite the opposite...a piano/ melody album, with some heavy inserts.
I am also a fan of the "melodic" side of Dream Theater, so I like D/T but less than TA.
As simple as that.
-
I appreciate the band taking this more "concise" approach, I feel like no songs on the record overstay their welcome. Could AWE or PBD be longer? Sure. But I'm good with them as is.
I completely agree. I really appreciate how focused and tight the songs are on this album. We've got almost twenty years' worth of albums of the band fleshing things out more and embellishing the lengths, for better or worse (I mean one of my all-time fave DT albums is Six Degrees, after all). The decision to tighten the pace up a bit here feels like a really great breath of fresh air for me.
-
It seems like I ended up ranking this album 4th of all the DT albums, but this might change after the freshness of the record wear off (My top 3 is Scenes, I&W and ADTOE)
-
Damn that riffing underneath the solo-ing on Viper King is tighter than a gnat's ass! I love it!
-
Damn that riffing underneath the solo-ing on Viper King is tighter than a gnat's ass! I love it!
Man, I'm loving this song so much!!! DT had ever written a rocker like that?! Interesting that it sounds like a croosover of Raibow and Deep Purple, but DP of Morse's phase, for obvious reasons.
-
Got the regular jewel case edition CD from Amazon yesterday and after ripping the CD it has the extra track on it even though I bought the regular edition. Strange.
-
Track by track for R137
https://youtu.be/mgiwc1Kjy0Y
How awesome that this started with the 137 bpm.
-
This is slowly growing for me which means it's a really great album. Easily the best DT album since Octavarium and may end up in the top 3 for me.
-
Got the regular jewel case edition CD from Amazon yesterday and after ripping the CD it has the extra track on it even though I bought the regular edition. Strange.
You're not the only one, I think this is a global printing error.
-
Got the regular jewel case edition CD from Amazon yesterday and after ripping the CD it has the extra track on it even though I bought the regular edition. Strange.
You're not the only one, I think this is a global printing error.
Wish I had not added the 100 SEK to get the bonus track. Could have got it for free....
-
I have a jewel case too, but no bonus track for me.
-
My jewel case version also do not contain the bonus track.
-
We keep finding more and more "nuggets" in Room 137. Honestly, if this is the sort of stuff Mangini is into in his songwriting, I'm hopeful he'll contribute this way to future DT albums. Perhaps the most nugget-filled song since Octavarium?
-
Good to hear that not everyone had the bonus track.... adding 56% to the price to get one track extra would have felt even worse if it had been totally unneccesary.
-
Good to hear that not everyone had the bonus track.... adding 56% to the price to get one track extra would have felt even worse if it had been totally unneccesary.
Mine was a $1 more. Where is ever shopping. $11.99 for the non bonus and $12.99 for the Bonus.
-
We could write lyrics about that and set it to the music of Room 137:
I can see it, here from the door.
Bonus edition, costs $1 more.
Obsession blinds me, need it for my stash.
Bonus edition, I am running out of cash.
-
:rollin
-
That’s excellent Bosk!
-
Given that I *hate* digipacks/digibooks/stupid bullshit I ordered the jewel case version. When I got a promo of the album it included Viper King and I really took to liking the song as was sad I wouldn't have it on my copy. Then I popped in the CD for the first time and got the pleasant surprise that it was on there, despite not being listed. So count me as one of the lucky ones.
-
I realize it's early, but this album keeps getting better. On my third listen, and I think it's the best Mangini album by far, and best overall album since Six Degrees, though I'm an Octavarium defender, and have a soft spot for BC&SL.
Even ADTOE had one track I sometimes skip, (Build Me Up...)
DOT has the spirit of the 90s DT within it, but I wouldn't put it above I&W, Awake, Scenes, or SDOIT.
It's definitely tied with 8vm, ADTOE, ToT, and BC&SL, though for me, I'd venture to say DOT is going to rise above those. I still need to listen more and let it marinate a bit more before coming to any concrete conclusions.
-
Good to hear that not everyone had the bonus track.... adding 56% to the price to get one track extra would have felt even worse if it had been totally unneccesary.
Mine was a $1 more. Where is ever shopping. $11.99 for the non bonus and $12.99 for the Bonus.
That difference would have been a nobrainer...
In Sweden the jewelcase was 159 SEK and the limited edition was 249 SEK. Felt like too much to only get one bonus song.... but it's frickin Dream Theater
-
Bosk, you should contribute the next album's bonus track :metal :lol
-
Boskstool Warrior
-
We keep finding more and more "nuggets" in Room 137. Honestly, if this is the sort of stuff Mangini is into in his songwriting, I'm hopeful he'll contribute this way to future DT albums. Perhaps the most nugget-filled song since Octavarium?
How's this for a nugget?
The song is in B minor (or maybe B Dorian, I'm not sure).
If you consider the scale degrees of the B minor scale, then the vocal melodies of the verses ONLY use the numbers 1, 3,
and 7! (This also includes a sharp-3 and a sharp-7)
The first "Someone" is B. That's 1.
The second "someone" is D. That's 3.
"Is" is D#. That's 3 but sharp.
"Dying" is B again.
"Tell Me" is A and A#, which are 7 and sharp-7.
I posted this already in the Room 137 thread if it looks familiar
-
We could write lyrics about that and set it to the music of Room 137:
I can see it, here from the door.
Bonus edition, costs $1 more.
Obsession blinds me, need it for my stash.
Bonus edition, I am running out of cash.
Boskstool Warrior
:lol
-
Boskstool Warrior
:lol
Pale Blue Bosk.
-
:millahhhh
-
All this bonus track talk makes me glad I just downloaded the album from iTunes for $10 bucks, bonus track included. Much simpler.
-
Boskstool Warrior
:lol
Pale Blue Bosk.
Viper Bosk
At Bosk's End
Out of Bosk
Signal to Bosk
Fall into the Bosk (or Bosk into the light if you prefer)
-
All this bonus track talk makes me glad I just downloaded the album from iTunes for $10 bucks, bonus track included. Much simpler.
Same here. This is literally the first DT studio album where I won't have a physical copy. Just no need to buy the physical copies anymore.
-
All this bonus track talk makes me glad I just downloaded the album from iTunes for $10 bucks, bonus track included. Much simpler.
Same here. This is literally the first DT studio album where I won't have a physical copy. Just no need to buy the physical copies anymore.
Same, my first DT release I didn't buy physically. The digital sales had the bonus track which was a huge selling point besides the cheapness and easiness.
-
:millahhhh
Like I said before you should have a pale blue dot with your face attached to it and stick arms and legs for your avatar. :lol
-
Same, my first DT release I didn't buy physically. The digital sales had the bonus track which was a huge selling point besides the cheapness and easiness.
For sure.
I do plan to redo my CD rack sometime in the next year or two, where I will narrow it down to 100 or so, and it is possible I will buy a physical copy then so I can have each one there (I will like having all studio albums by my top tier bands in there - Rush, DT, Porcupine Tree/SW, Neal Morse, Devin Townsend), but for now it was just easier to buy the songs digitally.
-
After buying The Astonishing in CD format and never opening it, I figured this time around I'd just go digital.
-
After buying The Astonishing in CD format and never opening it, I figured this time around I'd just go digital.
People just don't have the time for CDs anymore, and no one seems to care.
-
I'm thinking this is their best album since TOT for me and possibly even since SDOIT. This may be where I place it..... subject to change. I think the high points on FII are still better but as an album D/T may get the nod.
SFAM
I&W
SDOIT
Awake
D/T
FII
The Astonishing
TOT
DT
BC&SL
-
So let me get this straight, when I get home next week and find my standard edition CD waiting, Viper King will be on it?
-
So let me get this straight, when I get home next week and find my standard edition CD waiting, Viper King will be on it?
Most likely
-
After buying The Astonishing in CD format and never opening it, I figured this time around I'd just go digital.
People just don't have the time for CDs anymore, and no one seems to care.
My friends, I've heard the D.O.T., it has the songs for you and me
The album is the answer to our prayer
-
Boskstool
Ewww!
-
All this bonus track talk makes me glad I just downloaded the album from iTunes for $10 bucks, bonus track included. Much simpler.
Same here. This is literally the first DT studio album where I won't have a physical copy. Just no need to buy the physical copies anymore.
Same, my first DT release I didn't buy physically. The digital sales had the bonus track which was a huge selling point besides the cheapness and easiness.
Ditto. This is the first time I didn't buy a physical copy of new DT. As soon as I saw the album on iTunes had the bonus track, I figured I'd just download it. All my CDs are currently in a box in a closet at my house anyway :lol
-
Boskstool
Ewww!
Barstool Bosk sounds better. I really doubt he's a heavy drinker though.
-
I a cd guy to my grave. Idk, I just like the old school way of popping the album into the player and having the physical copy in front of you with the artwork and lyrics and everything.
-
I a cd guy to my grave. Idk, I just like the old school way of popping the album into the player and having the physical copy in front of you with the artwork and lyrics and everything.
Absolutely! :tup
-
I a cd guy to my grave. Idk, I just like the old school way of popping the album into the player and having the physical copy in front of you with the artwork and lyrics and everything.
I only get physical copies of DT and Steven Wilson, because those are my two absolute favorites
-
I a cd guy to my grave. Idk, I just like the old school way of popping the album into the player and having the physical copy in front of you with the artwork and lyrics and everything.
I have ditched my CD because we in the Third World are discriminated against in the aspect. LOL
-
so, today will be my first time I listen to the album (I was organizing a listening party with my friends, that's why I'm late)
Do you guys recommend us to listen the album in order, or should we listen the songs from shortest to longest (because I guess that's how the complexity of the songs grows)?
-
I would go in album order. I think the album flows pretty nicely.
-
does anyone know when amazon (US) is supposed to be shipping out the box set?
-
At Bosk's End
:omg:
-
I a cd guy to my grave. Idk, I just like the old school way of popping the album into the player and having the physical copy in front of you with the artwork and lyrics and everything.
As someone whose first owned recorded music was on an 8-track (look it up on Google, youngsters), I never would have thought that a CD would be considered old school. Oh, well.
-
I would go in album order. I think the album flows pretty nicely.
Yeah I agree, when I first got the album, I was skipping the first three tracks because I already knew them. The last 2 days, I've been listening to it in running order, start to finish, and everything flows very nicely.
-
After buying The Astonishing in CD format and never opening it, I figured this time around I'd just go digital.
People just don't have the time for CDs anymore, and no one seems to care.
The time or the space? Essentially all of my CDs are in a couple CD storage towers that are very very dusty in my basement. I just have no desire to add to this pile anymore.
-
does anyone know when amazon (US) is supposed to be shipping out the box set?
I am wondering the same thing. I sure hope we don't get screwed and they never actually get them.
-
Boskstool
Ewww!
Barstool Bosk sounds better. I really doubt he's a heavy drinker though.
Sorry, I was referencing the "stool" part like in feces. Just doing my part to contribute meaningful content to the discussion.
-
Regarding Room 137 - I'm really digging the King's X (by way of Beatles) sections. Anyone else make the connection to the bridge in "These Shoes" from the album Dogman? Great song.
-
I have listened to the new album enough that I can confidently say it's really good. I usually overrate albums a bit when they first come out, and then my opinion comes back down to earth after the next record, but this album might be a bit different because it simply is what it is: A collection of concise, solid Dream Theater songs with terrific production. And that's an awesome thing.
-
I have listened to the new album enough that I can confidently say it's really good. I usually overrate albums a bit when they first come out, and then my opinion comes back down to earth after the next record, but this album might be a bit different because it simply is what it is: A collection of concise, solid Dream Theater songs with terrific production. And that's an awesome thing.
Yup.
-
The low notes/chords on this album are so menacing and heavy.
The album has created a rebirth of my fandom. I spin it twice a day and
it continues to grow stronger. Could possibly be in the top tier along with
the run from I&W to SDoiT...which I thought would never be possible.
A total ass kicker of an album!I love it!
-
The low notes/chords on this album are so menacing and heavy.
The album has created a rebirth of my fandom. I spin it twice a day and
it continues to grow stronger. Could possibly be in the top tier along with
the run from I&W to SDoiT...which I thought would never be possible.
A total ass kicker of an album!I love it!
Seconded every word.
-
Btw, the beginning of Barstool Warrior sounds familiar...could it be the beginning of The Best of Times I'm thinking of?
-
The low notes/chords on this album are so menacing and heavy.
The album has created a rebirth of my fandom. I spin it twice a day and
it continues to grow stronger. Could possibly be in the top tier along with
the run from I&W to SDoiT...which I thought would never be possible.
A total ass kicker of an album!I love it!
Seconded every word.
Thirded, but I still loved DT as I found TA a great album. With D/T, I think they managed to recapture some of their past magic while incorporating the good in modern DT and things they had never done before. A great achievement ranking number 4 for me (I never thought it would dislodge ToT from 4th place but it has).
B.Lee
-
The low notes/chords on this album are so menacing and heavy.
The album has created a rebirth of my fandom. I spin it twice a day and
it continues to grow stronger. Could possibly be in the top tier along with
the run from I&W to SDoiT...which I thought would never be possible.
A total ass kicker of an album!I love it!
Seconded every word.
Thirded, but I still loved DT as I found TA a great album. With D/T, I think they managed to recapture some of their past magic while incorporating the good in modern DT and things they had never done before. A great achievement ranking number 4 for me (I never thought it would dislodge ToT from 4th place but it has).
B.Lee
Oh absolutely - I am actually among those who loved The Astonishing as well (it's just my cup of tea of an album) and am in fact much happier with post-Portnoy releases compared to 2003-2009 run of albums (or 2005-2009, since I have complicated feelings for ToT ;D ).
So when I say that D/T rekindled my fandom it doesn't mean that I was away and now they got me back. But while TA was a solid hit for me, this album did something to me that no DT albums have done in quite a while. Listening to it for the first time brought a surge of adrenaline and a feeling of adventure (that TA had too, but in a different way) in that I did not know what was coming next and was always caught by surprise by the changes in songs, their sheer energy and vitality. They got the right balance of heavy and proggy stuff this time that made the album so special for me, topping it off with a top-notch sound.
Right now, I too rank D/T as my number 4.
-
Picked up my copy last Friday, but due to work and glorious Wisconsin weather, hadn’t had a chance to listen until today.
First impression? It’s okay.
I heard the three songs released prior to the album coming out and none of them really wowed me and I guess I can say the same about the rest of the album. Sure there were moments that caught my ear, especially S2N, but not one song stood out above the others.
And I don’t know what has been discussed in this thread because I’m way behind in reading it, but I thought the lyrics were very subpar and kind of corny at points.
I’ll spin it again tomorrow and see what happens. Whatever I get out of it I know this album will be leaps and bounds more enjoyable than “The Astonishing”.
-
Btw, the beginning of Barstool Warrior sounds familiar...could it be the beginning of The Best of Times I'm thinking of?
I had the same feeling and couldnt figure out what it reminded me of. I think it might be the intro for "A life left behind" from TA, Maybe?
-
Boskstool
Ewww!
Barstool Bosk sounds better. I really doubt he's a heavy drinker though.
Sorry, I was referencing the "stool" part like in feces. Just doing my part to contribute meaningful content to the discussion.
:rollin
-
From https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/compact_discs/dream_theater/distance_over_time/47799/
There are some real jaw dropping moments and performances that Mangini has on this album that really elevates the band to areas that I don't believe they could have reached from a technical point of view with Portnoy behind the kit.
-
First DT CD I haven't bought a physical copy of. All I wind up doing is ripping it and putting it on my phone anyhow so this is quicker and cheaper. :) Plus I got it 9pm the date before it was released because I'm in California.
-
The album's mastering is pretty hot and therefore a bit tiring after a few tracks, but hell yes am I enjoying DT having punishing production again. The album's riffs smack like a bulldozer, and it's not a bad look for DT. JP's on point, in his solos giving off quite a few callbacks to classic 90's era DT. Some ToT vibes in the instrumental sections, love the JP soloing over just pure JR piano and airtight bass from JMX. And JLB: While quite a few vocal touch ups can be noticed, and the effects are possibly applied a tad more than absolutely neccesary (it really detracts from the experience IMO), his personality definitely shines through, with a performance he can be very proud of.
At Wit's End is my favorite track to return to it seems, mostly in part of the dramatic opening part with the chugging JP arpeggio and JR's mournful piano chords. That shit instantly transports me back to ToT, tonally reminiscent of In The Name of God. The 'Something's missing' section later on is just spine-chilling to hear from DT after an album I did not gave a damn about. The way that the groove of that section came in after the piano & vocals section feels so great every time I'm hearing it. What a masterpiece of a track from DT at this stage in their careers.
Paralyzed I liked from the start and it's still not winding down. Instantly accessible melodies with an amazing groove to it and a premium guitar solo from JP. Dude, I'm not worthy.
Not a bad track on the album, even. I'll always miss Mike Portnoy on the drums, but this is the first DT album with Mike Mangini that I can honestly say I love. The musicality and TONE finally seem to match.
One final thing: Pale Blue Dot is a missed chance at being the 'Octavarium' of the album - hell, the ending JP solo definitely hints at that vibe - but it had to be freakin' longer.
-
Yay my Box set is finally shipping from Century Media.
-
Yay my Box set is finally shipping from Century Media.
I hope Amazon ships them out soon.
-
Yay my Box set is finally shipping from Century Media.
I hope Amazon ships them out soon.
My guess is that Amazon is slated to receive stock around the 15th of March which is why they don't have a date ready for shipping yet.
-
Just listened to the album for the first time.
I like it a lot, but I feel like a lot of the choruses kind of sound too similar to each other. Still gotta listen to it more times to let it sink in. I'll probably give it another listen tonight on my headphones. I only listened to it through my speakers.
Also is it just me or does Viper King sound like a combination of something that off WDADU and the band Motley Crue? lol
-
Been listening to it on Amazon Prime until my artbook edition comes in, so my initial impressions are based on streamed tracks.
This album is fantastic. At Wit's End, S2n, Fall into the Light, and Pale Blue Dot are all standout tracks. Untethered Angel and Room 137 are also excellent. Paralyzed and Viper King are strong too.
I like Barstool Warrior, though not as much as other fans seem to. Out of Reach is the only throwaway track so far: it has some great moments, but the cheesy vocals render it unlistenable (someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads). Looking forward to the instrumental versions.
Too soon to say with certainty how much replay-value Distance Over Time has, but I'm more excited about it than I was for the last couple albums. More energy and jamming, less cringe-inducing vocals and lyrics. We'll see how it holds up over time.
-
I love the vocals on Out of Reach! Thats the Labrie we have been missing! The cheesier the better with Labrie IMO.
-
(someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads).
Wow. I think ballads are his strong side.
-
(someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads).
Wow. I think ballads are his strong side.
-
I wouldn't tell him anything really. He does what he is supposed to do and he does it well. I don't have a problem with him singing ballads. (he isn't Steve Perry thank goodness.)
-
The album's mastering is pretty hot and therefore a bit tiring after a few tracks...
I'm glad it's not just me that's noticed that.
-
I would agree that LaBrie shines on ballads and soft moments these days.
-
but the cheesy vocals render it unlistenable (someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads)
I'm curious, if you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean by cheesy? I think he's too airy/breathy on the softer parts sometimes but other than that I don't see anything wrong here. Except maybe those strained high vocals in Viper King.
-
I don't like his singing in ballads for exactly what Kat said. Those airy/breathy moments. Otherwise it's all good.
-
I think someone needs to tell JLB to sing on more music like The Astonishing... cause that is where he is really shining ;)
-
I think someone needs to tell JLB to sing on more music like The Astonishing... cause that is where he is really shining ;)
I think someone needs to tell JLB to stay in Dream Theater...that's where he shines! ;)
-
but the cheesy vocals render it unlistenable (someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads)
I'm curious, if you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean by cheesy? I think he's too airy/breathy on the softer parts sometimes but other than that I don't see anything wrong here. Except maybe those strained high vocals in Viper King.
I mean no disrespect to LeBrie, who is a fantastic singer (lots of range, power, and style). I just don't care for breathy or overly emotional vocals, at least not in prog metal. It just feels awkward.
Some other recent DT tracks I skip:
- Most of The Astonishing
- The Bigger Picture
- Along for the Ride
- This Is the Life
- Far from Heaven
- Beneath the Surface
It's not a new development. I've been skipping these since I bought Images and Words in 1992:
- Another Day
- Surrounded
- Wait for Sleep (though once in a while I'll play this as it is a beautiful song... but there are many piano-only covers that I prefer)
I have the same opinion of Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson: most of their recent albums have had ballads (or pseudo ballads) that I find skippable, at least partly because of vocals:
- Tears of a Clown
- Coming Home
- Out of the Shadows
- The Thin Line Between Love and Hate
That last one is a really cool song for the most part, but When Dickinson sings "The Thin Line Between Love and Hate" at 6 minutes in and again near the end, I cringe... it's not that he sings poorly, but I find it over the top.
Many Maiden/Dickinson fans adore those songs, especially Coming Home. To me it sounds terrible.
Just so I'm not accused of singling out the singers, sometimes it's that the guitars feel cheesy.
And it's not that I dislike all slow songs by prog/metal bands... in the case of Maiden, Journeyman works quite well. So does Infinite Dreams. Metallic's Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters, and Until It Sleeps are great tunes.
Just my opinion. To each his own.
-
Man, you must really hate ballads!, You metal purist you! :lol
-
I was thinking about what makes d/t special and unique in the band's catalog and two words came to mind to define the album: riffy and groovy.
I believe no other album they made is so riff driven and has so many cool grooves as this one. I totally dig it :metal
-
I was thinking about what makes d/t special and unique in the band's catalog and two words came to mind to define the album: riffy and groovy.
I believe no other album they made is so riff driven and has so many cool grooves as this one. I totally dig it :metal
Awake is close in some way, but I agree.
-
I simply cannot get the end of Wits End out of my head. What a delicious piece of ear candy. Their best since Spirit Carries On.
-
I simply cannot get the end of Wits End out of my head. What a delicious piece of ear candy. Their best since Spirit Carries On.
When I turned my car on this morning it played right where I left off with the ending, what a great way to start my day. Such a beautfiul part
-
I just want to say that this album rocks and feels like a return to the early days. Concise, heavy, groovy all at the same time.
Also S2N sounds like it could be straight out of Falling Into Infinity.
-
Just wanted to share and add my little opinion and my one change to this album.
I'm actually pleased with the album, and I'm not a big fan of the post MP era, but I still get every album, maybe out of habit. This may be the best post MP era. It's fun (S2N and Viper King), it's small epic (PBD and At Wits End), and got Awake feel (Paralyzed), and I&W feel (Barstool Warrior). It's those last two songs (Paralyzed and Barstool Warrior) that really sold me on the album. Untethered Angel sounds like every other opening song DT has done post MP (Astonishing not included).
Drums sound great. I miss past JP playing style, but players/musicians change.
I really found that changing the track order (I'm an old schooled album order based listener) a small bit helped me tremendously with the pacing. Thank goodness for having that ability in the last 15 years.
So this is how I listen to the album. It just works better for me. Get rid of Out of Reach, and put the 2 small epics together. The outro for At Wits End is much much better placed as an album closer.
1 "Untethered Angel"
2 "Paralyzed"
3 "Fall into the Light"
4 "Barstool Warrior"
5 "Room 137"
6 "S2N"
7 "Viper King"
8 "Pale Blue Dot"
9 "At Wit's End"
-
but the cheesy vocals render it unlistenable (someone needs to tell LaBrie to stop singing ballads)
I'm curious, if you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean by cheesy? I think he's too airy/breathy on the softer parts sometimes but other than that I don't see anything wrong here. Except maybe those strained high vocals in Viper King.
I mean no disrespect to LeBrie, who is a fantastic singer (lots of range, power, and style). I just don't care for breathy or overly emotional vocals, at least not in prog metal. It just feels awkward.
Some other recent DT tracks I skip:
- Most of The Astonishing
- The Bigger Picture
- Along for the Ride
- This Is the Life
- Far from Heaven
- Beneath the Surface
It's not a new development. I've been skipping these since I bought Images and Words in 1992:
- Another Day
- Surrounded
- Wait for Sleep (though once in a while I'll play this as it is a beautiful song... but there are many piano-only covers that I prefer)
I have the same opinion of Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson: most of their recent albums have had ballads (or pseudo ballads) that I find skippable, at least partly because of vocals:
- Tears of a Clown
- Coming Home
- Out of the Shadows
- The Thin Line Between Love and Hate
That last one is a really cool song for the most part, but When Dickinson sings "The Thin Line Between Love and Hate" at 6 minutes in and again near the end, I cringe... it's not that he sings poorly, but I find it over the top.
Many Maiden/Dickinson fans adore those songs, especially Coming Home. To me it sounds terrible.
Just so I'm not accused of singling out the singers, sometimes it's that the guitars feel cheesy.
And it's not that I dislike all slow songs by prog/metal bands... in the case of Maiden, Journeyman works quite well. So does Infinite Dreams. Metallic's Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters, and Until It Sleeps are great tunes.
Just my opinion. To each his own.
What the heck did I just read? :omg: :sadpanda:
-
I just want to say that this album rocks and feels like a return to the early days. Concise, heavy, groovy all at the same time.
Yes. I know it's been said in the thread, but I'm really, really pleased with how restrained JP and JR are on this album. I feel like it forced them to find the hooks and melodies in these songs, and it's paid off in such a huge way.
-
Hi all, I'm an occasional visitor here and just wanted to say DOT gets the thumbs up from me. I had been really struggling with it but now the penny has dropped - long live DT ;D
-
I just want to say that this album rocks and feels like a return to the early days. Concise, heavy, groovy all at the same time.
Also S2N sounds like it could be straight out of Falling Into Infinity.
Thank you, I thought I was crazy for thinking that. Btw, S2N rocks! :metal
B.Lee
-
Second listen of the album today was much more pleasing than the first. I still don’t hear a great Dream Theater song on the album, but I don’t think there are any clunkers.
Anyone have a thought on the second outro on “At Wits End”?
-
Finally listened to the album (I feel bad for my girlfriend who just wanted to hang out and instead was forced to sit in silence :lol :lol)
Untethered Angel: The outro is still perfection. That is all
Paralyzed: Didn't like it as a single, but in the album it kills. It's fantastic
Fall Into the Light: That Bridge...delicious
Barstool Warrior: 30 seconds in I turned to my girl and told her it was perfect. 10 listens later it still is
Room 137: This was the only song that didn't grip me at first, but I've listened a few more times and it's growing on me
S2N: Nice and groovy. Really like the verses
At Wit's End: That outro...that moment is the highlight of the entire album. Nothing tops it. So emotional and just perfect. The easter egg part is nice but too short.
Out of Reach: It's decent. I liked it but it's overshadowed
Pale Blue Dot: I need a few more listens to grasp it, but I enjoyed it while listening
Viper King: DRIVE ONNNN. But seriously, it's just fun
-
Anyone have a thought on the second outro on “At Wits End”?
Yup. It's way to long of a pause between the fade out and this outro. Easy fix in music editing software. I just spliced the two to fade together and now it's a perfect album closer.
-
Btw, the beginning of Barstool Warrior sounds familiar...could it be the beginning of The Best of Times I'm thinking of?
It always makes me think of the beginning of New Millennium particularly when the synth comes in.
-
I was thinking about what makes d/t special and unique in the band's catalog and two words came to mind to define the album: riffy and groovy.
I believe no other album they made is so riff driven and has so many cool grooves as this one. I totally dig it :metal
Yeah, you are right. The riffs and groove really drive the album. But at the same time, the album is so tight. I mean, DT has always been a pretty tight band. They have to be to do what they do and do it so well. But everything that is going on in these songs is so tightly locked in on the guitar riffs and the groove that it all just really, really works well. To give an example, I had mentioned early on that PBD is very deceptive because the guitar riffs are so upfront and in your face. But the more I listened to it, the more I felt like it was actually the keyboards that were driving the song, and everything is really locked in on what Jordan is doing. I'm probably not explaining it well, but I find it to be really cool.
Get rid of Out of Reach, and put the 2 small epics together. The outro for At Wits End is much much better placed as an album closer.
Good post, but I am disagreeing with the part I quoted. Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
And I get what people have said about AWE closing the album. But I think it's just fine where it is, and I like PBD being the closer (with Viper King being that optional "post credits bonus").
Anyone have a thought on the second outro on “At Wits End”?
Well, yeah, lots of thoughts. It's been discussed quite a bit. But what specifically are you getting at?
-
Sorely disappointed today to find out that the lyric in Paralyzed says "silent as the dead", not "silent oxygen" heh
I've been singing along as silent oxygen, thought it was such a cool line. Granted it doesn't make sense but I've been listening to quiet a bit of avant-garde rock recently, where lyrics don't have to make sense at all :lol
-
S2N keeps getting better. Love it! :heart
-
Anyone have a thought on the second outro on “At Wits End”?
Well, yeah, lots of thoughts. It's been discussed quite a bit. But what specifically are you getting at?
Haven’t been able to read through this whole thread so forgive me if it has been discussed already, but it feels it loses effect with the long dead air.
-
Can I say just how incredible it feels to LOVE a Dream Theater album again. It has been a long, long time. And I know a lot of Long Islanders who are DT fans say this, but while the band has become more geographically-diverse over its career, there's something about having your hometown boys putting out something that you really FEEL, that is the best feeling in the world. I've never met them, but I have friends who either know them well, or see them all the time. Hell, John lives where I grew up. :lol And there's this feeling of pride. That's how I feel with Distance Over Time. After not really feeling a lot of what Dream Theater has done post-SFAM, to get DoT NOW, after me really just letting them go for the most part, is incredible.
Even though JLB had a tough night, I took my family to Oakland on the I&W anniversary tour. And I said that it would likely be the last time I saw Dream Theater live. And I was really bummed about it. It seemed fitting that the song (ACOS) and album that really started it all for me was what I was ending on. Fast forward, and boom. New life.
Thanks Dream Theater. Especially after a tough start to 2019, I really needed this one. See ya next month. :tup
-
Anyone have a thought on the second outro on “At Wits End”?
Well, yeah, lots of thoughts. It's been discussed quite a bit. But what specifically are you getting at?
Haven’t been able to read through this whole thread so forgive me if it has been discussed already, but it feels it loses effect with the long dead air.
There's a separate thread here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53473.0
-
I’m going to stick my neck out and give Out Of Reach an honourable mention. It’s not getting too much love, but I like it. It’s the song that most reminds me of old school DT. It has a real Lifting Shadows vibe.
I think it serves its purpose as a breather song before PBD well. If I was to give one criticism of it, I think the chorus could be a little stronger, but it’s fine as it is.
-
^and the vocals are pretty stellar too. I know there is a camp out there that just has their mind switch off when they hear James do soft, breathy vocals. But even if you don't like that, his soaring vocals on the chorus are REALLY nice, especially the way they build. I know one fan in particular who felt that that has been an element missing from their recent output.
On a completely different note, I had forgotten about this thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53037.0 :lol Keep in mind that this was before Room 137 had been released as a title (I knew about it, but most did not).
-
Out of reach is gorgeous... that guitar part at the beginning could be straight from SFAM IMO. I absolutely love it. I also think Labrie's vocals are excellent and remind me of his work on FII.
Also.... I think my favorite part of the album may be on "AWE" on the part right after the chorus and right before the sleepless words for wear part. Amazing riff and Labrie slays it. Big SDOIT vibe there.
-
I think one review called the song the obligatory ballad or something similar and it does kind of come off as that on such a heavy album, but I think it's a nice song and I love it's placement. It works really well after At Wits End. Its a solid DT ballad song, maybe even in their upper half of DT ballads.
-
Confession time: I had to look up the word maculate (from AWE) in the dictionary..
I’d never heard that word in my life!! Every day’s a school day. :lol
-
Understandable. It is far less commonly used than it's antonym, immaculate.
-
I thought it was immaculate, until I read the lyrics.
..and now I have to go and look up “antonym” ;)
This forum is just too highbrow for me..
-
Also.... I think my favorite part of the album may be on "AWE" on the part right after the chorus and right before the sleepless words for wear part. Amazing riff and Labrie slays it. Big SDOIT vibe there.
My favorite part of the album might be right after that sleepless word part - the "deafening, deafening" part. Such a killer part that only shows up once and then is gone forever.
-
Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
Maybe I'm not getting this because I'm not a native english speaker, but I've read the lyrics and don't find anything shocking, care to explain? :biggrin:
-
Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
Maybe I'm not getting this because I'm not a native english speaker, but I've read the lyrics and don't find anything shocking, care to explain? :biggrin:
I really really would like to know this as well. Noxon says it's about being friendzoned, which I do not see at all.
-
Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
Maybe I'm not getting this because I'm not a native english speaker, but I've read the lyrics and don't find anything shocking, care to explain? :biggrin:
Well, "shocking" is an ironically great choice of words that has something to do with it. :lol
-
Okay after a week to digest things; I think it just kicks all kinds of ass. Not a bad tune on the album.
Actually having a hard time ranking them, I like every track equally. Everything is tied for 1st place except Out of Reach, comes in at 2nd only because I'm not a big ballad guy.
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
forgive if it's been answered but.... https://youtu.be/R8XgP8C2oqU?t=347
-
Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
Maybe I'm not getting this because I'm not a native english speaker, but I've read the lyrics and don't find anything shocking, care to explain? :biggrin:
Well, "shocking" is an ironically great choice of words that has something to do with it. :lol
Ok I'll bite.
The singer is a ghost singing about his wife. He's dead because he got electrocuted. He also drowned.
She can't let go of him and is letting her life slip away as a result.
She's out of reach because he's in the afterlife
-
Song is supposed to be of a guy who meets a girl at a coffee shop...don't know how credible this is though.
"I wanted to write a song about how people are affected when they lose a loved one," LaBrie said in a Songfacts interview. "This guy notices an absolutely beautiful girl, and at first he thinks she has it all going for her: she's beautiful, well-dressed, seems to be financially stable. But as he sees her from day to day, sitting at her table, he realizes there is a sadness to her. So, the lyric is about him trying to communicate to her to rediscover love, because he sees that something is seriously missing in her life due to a loss."
-
The part with:
"Deafening, deafening
Shout it out, shout it out
Burning, burning
No way out, no way out"
From At Wits End, really reminds me of something but I can't remember what......anyone know?
forgive if it's been answered but.... https://youtu.be/R8XgP8C2oqU?t=347
That's my favorite part of AWE, that song needs more of that!
It reminds me of a Porcupine Tree song, but I can't recall the name right now. I'll post it later..I'm pretty sure it's Track 2 off the Deadwing album.
Edited: the song is called Shallow. It's not identical, but similar.
-
grabbed me after first listen, that's good point.. straightful and strong release indeed...
top highlight:
S2N
highlights:
FITL
PBD
JP
MM
JM
pros:
best MM era album so far
production and sound
cons:
quite many SC vibes...
wishes:
more toms
if PBD was opener on album.
-
Man, I really quite like the Darth Vader section in PBD. I wish it was longer.
-
Happy Vlasto day! Glad you like it.
-
Great album and likely to satisfy the majority of listeners who despised The Astonishing.
Barstool Warrior is incredible, but should have been given a different song title.
Not sure, but perhaps Out of Reach should have been swapped out for Viper King.
S2N's heavy outro is awesome, but sort of feels out of place.
-
Great album and likely to satisfy the majority of listeners who despised The Astonishing.
Barstool Warrior is incredible, but should have been given a different song title.
Not sure, but perhaps Out of Reach should have been swapped out for Viper King.
S2N's heavy outro is awesome, but sort of feels out of place.
No way. Can't agree with that one.
-
Out of Reach is terrific. And that twist in the lyrics... :omg:
Maybe I'm not getting this because I'm not a native english speaker, but I've read the lyrics and don't find anything shocking, care to explain? :biggrin:
Well, "shocking" is an ironically great choice of words that has something to do with it. :lol
Ok I'll bite.
The singer is a ghost singing about his wife. He's dead because he got electrocuted. He also drowned.
She can't let go of him and is letting her life slip away as a result.
She's out of reach because he's in the afterlife
I also got a ghost vibe from the song. But what is the twist in the lyrics?
-
After my disappointment with the last album, I was hesitant about this new release. I am sitting here on the 4th track in listening via youtube.. Hell! This is a really good album so far. I am almost tearing up... My other window is open to Amazon to purchase.
:metal
-
Great album and likely to satisfy the majority of listeners who despised The Astonishing.
Barstool Warrior is incredible, but should have been given a different song title.
Not sure, but perhaps Out of Reach should have been swapped out for Viper King.
S2N's heavy outro is awesome, but sort of feels out of place.
No way. Can't agree with that one.
I really love Viper King, but it feels a bit out of place on the album where as Out of Reach fits in for the ballad after the way At Wits End ends. I'd probably say I like Viper King more, but it feels like the bonus track moreso than Out of Reach.
-
Paralyzed just keeps growing on me... James is really on fire and the melodies are awesome.
The vibe kind of reminds me of Misunderstood.
Its one of the songs I continue to crave... its literally ear candy. I didn't expect that after my first few listens to it.
Really enjoying this album. I hope they continue to write this way.
I love the album and have it ranked 5th now but I'm going to throw in some EXTREME nitpicking just because I am bored. Curious if other's agree with me on some of these. These are truly EXTREME nitpicks and not song rankings or song opinions. I say no complaints on Room 137 but its far from my favorite track on the album. I just don't have any structural complaints about it.
UA: I wish they found a smoother way to transition into the instrumental section... the drum/guitar run is sort of played out. I also wish JR's keys were louder when they bring back the opening riff and he sort of plays a lead part.
Paralyzed: Loving it and James is amazing... on the " ghost within" and time again"... parts I wish he didn't drag the words out.. I think it would sound cooler. Its the only part of the song that reminds me of SC era DT because of that one little drag of the note
FITL: no complaints
BW: I wish they would have ended it before the "no one can save you part" It drags a bit and keeps it from perfection
Room 137: No real complaints
S2N: This is the one song where we badly needed more of JR... I think more of a soundscape with some color would have elevated this to classic DT status. Picture this song with SDOIT version of JR...would be amazing. As it is, its a very good song.
At Wits End: Not a big fan of the time elapsed between the ending and the outro..... the outro sounds incredible though. I wish they would have faded straight to that and made that louder and MUCH longer. It sounds gorgeous. Maybe live we will get treated to that.
Out of Reach: Fantastic all the way through. No complaints.
Pale Blue Dot: Not going to nitpick this one... its a crazy song. I don't love the chorus but thats less a nitpick and more of just my tastes
Viper King: No real complaints
-
JM never seizes to amaze me, in the track-by-track video for S2N, he sits down with MM and JLB. If you show that video to someone who knows nothing about DT and asked them to guess which one of these three is a founding member of the band, they'll never guess it was JM, with how polite and restrained his mannerisms are.
-
I think one review called the song the obligatory ballad or something similar and it does kind of come off as that on such a heavy album, but I think it's a nice song and I love it's placement. It works really well after At Wits End. Its a solid DT ballad song, maybe even in their upper half of DT ballads.
After At Wits End majestic ending, it needed to be followed by something somber and softer. Which OOR is great before Pale Blue Dot.
Pale Blue Dot, is a nice fit for the ending, likely due to its lyric subject. Which is also why I feel AWE is perfect where its placed. The entire Tracklisting is perfect as is for me.
-
JM never seizes to amaze me, in the track-by-track video for S2N, he sits down with MM and JLB. If you show that video to someone who knows nothing about DT and asked them to guess which one of these three is a founding member of the band, they'll never guess it was JM, with how polite and restrained his mannerisms are.
Very cool.
He has already spoken more during the d/t promotion than in all previous years combined! :biggrin:
Love JM.
-
Put me in the camp that “Pale Blue Dot” should not be the closer on the album. It just doesn’t feel right.
-
Both DOT and The Verdict were supposed to be shipped by March 1st. The Verdict has shipped and will be arriving tomorrow.
DOH!!!! I just looked at it again. I was up late at night pre-ordering, and didn't realize until just now that I ordered the BOXED SET. That must be why there is a delay. I wonder if they will write me later and tell me that it's just....gone.
Maybe I better just order the regular CD instead. If I ended up with both, it wouldn't be that big a deal.
-
Glad that Viper King was left off the album, I just can’t take it seriously. But then again, maybe that’s the whole point of it?
-
Glad that Viper King was left off the album, I just can’t take it seriously. But then again, maybe that’s the whole point of it?
Clearly.
-
Viper King is such a fun song though. I love the hammond organ and the guitar absolutely shreds on the soloing. I'm so glad it's on the CD I bought from the music store.
-
VP is fun and fits D/T very well. It definitely serves as the “end credits” of the album like others have said and it’s a nice “encore” after PBD is finished and your mind still hurts because of it. Glad they included it :metal
-
Bought 2 new CDs within a month of each other (DT and Within Temptation), and can honestly say it's been years since that happened.
So let me get this straight, when I get home next week and find my standard edition CD waiting, Viper King will be on it?
Most likely
What's the deal with this? Haven't been following this thread last couple days (too busy to keep up). Just got my "standard" jewel case and it has VK on it.
-
After buying The Astonishing in CD format and never opening it, I figured this time around I'd just go digital.
People just don't have the time for CDs anymore, and no one seems to care.
My friends, I've heard the D.O.T., it has the songs for you and me
The album is the answer to our prayer
Sooooo anyone else caught up on this? :mehlin
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
Also, yes, Barstool Warrior is a pretty silly title out of context but given what the song is about I don't think it's that bad but actually kind of fitting
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
-
Nice to hear JM get out his fretless bass on Out of Reach. When was the last time he used one?
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
:lol at this. Just thinking of my own trusty 2008 Fiesta which is currently in getting fixed.
Even if someone did give me a Dodge Viper, I'd need a second mortgage to be able to put petrol in it, what with UK fuel prices.
-
I recommend a yellow jacket!
-
JM never seizes to amaze me, in the track-by-track video for S2N, he sits down with MM and JLB. If you show that video to someone who knows nothing about DT and asked them to guess which one of these three is a founding member of the band, they'll never guess it was JM, with how polite and restrained his mannerisms are.
Very cool.
He has already spoken more during the d/t promotion than in all previous years combined! :biggrin:
Love JM.
Indeed. I was watching When Dream and Day Reunite Commentary DVD the other day and while the guys were reminiscing about their process in the early days, JM chimed in on several occasions with his own particular memories of that era.
And on more than one occasion (must have been at least two or three times) you can hear him saying how they used to live and work together on those early albums and how cool it would be if they could do it again. Honestly, he just repeated that as if he was hinting and nudging all the other guys with an elbow, "Why don't we do it again?", like. And MP's answer to that would always be that they had different lives back then, didn't have families and so on, clearly evading to make any promise of that writing and recording process happening again.
What I'm saying is, I think JM really missed that approach. That commentary DVD was in 2004. Fourteen years later, his wishes were finally granted. And the results are electrifying.
-
Nice to hear JM get out his fretless bass on Out of Reach. When was the last time he used one?
I didn’t realize he was using a fretless on OOR... and I’m a bassist :lol
IIRC, the last time he used a fretless was Far From Heaven, but it’s very subtle. Before that, I think the last one for a long time was Through Her Eyes.
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
But it looks awesome.
-
I don't think I've seen anyone mention this before but the first time I listened to "Barstool Warrior" I thought that the part that starts around the 01:00 mark had an uncanny "Don't Look Past Me" sort of vibe.
"Distance Over Time" rocks, by the way. I really, really dig it!
-
BW: I wish they would have ended it before the "no one can save you part" It drags a bit and keeps it from perfection
I could not disagree more. The "No one can save you" takes this song to a completely new level. I may be biased though, because I've been hyped for that part ever since the facebook video of Jordan finishing his keyboard tracking many months ago.
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
-
BW: I wish they would have ended it before the "no one can save you part" It drags a bit and keeps it from perfection
I could not disagree more. The "No one can save you" takes this song to a completely new level. I may be biased though, because I've been hyped for that part ever since the facebook video of Jordan finishing his keyboard tracking many months ago.
I'm going to agree with you actually that the "no on can save you" part is nice, I just don't love how they drag the finale with the "now i'm cutting the anchor away part"... reminds me a little too much of some of the dragged out Astonishing songs (even though I like TA).
Remember though... these are EXTREME nitpicks due to boredom and just wanting to over analyze the album because I am having so much fun with it.
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
Yea quite an exaggeration to say the least
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
Yea quite an exaggeration to say the least
:lol yea my civic too is a better car than a viper....
-
I bet my 85 Toyota corolla goes better in the snow than a dodge viper! ;D
-
BW: I wish they would have ended it before the "no one can save you part" It drags a bit and keeps it from perfection
I could not disagree more. The "No one can save you" takes this song to a completely new level. I may be biased though, because I've been hyped for that part ever since the facebook video of Jordan finishing his keyboard tracking many months ago.
I'm going to agree with you actually that the "no on can save you" part is nice, I just don't love how they drag the finale with the "now i'm cutting the anchor away part"... reminds me a little too much of some of the dragged out Astonishing songs (even though I like TA).
At first I felt the same way, because the song doesn't sound like it knows where it's going. But when I finally got the melodic transitions in my head, I now find it brilliant.
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
Yea quite an exaggeration to say the least
:lol yea my civic too is a better car than a viper....
Yea, the Viper is not that great of a sports car but it works better in the lyrics. Singing "My MP4-12C King" just doesn't flow. Also, the car just looks cool.
-
DOT entering the dutch album chart on 3th position!
-
I have never liked the Dodge "muscle" cars. But give me an old Camero, Chevelle, or GTO! Doesn't need to hug all the corners, just look good, sound loud and have a great stereo! I had a Camero when I was a teenager we would cruise this street in Denver - it was packed with muscle cars and everybody rockin! Like a party but in cars! :metal
-
Distance Over Time got to no. 12 in the main UK Album Chart, but once again they've hit number one in the Rock Albums Chart!
-
It went to the top spot in Germany. Out of nowhere, for the first time ever.
-
What about the Billboard 200? Maybe it’ll hit the top 5?
-
I opened a thread in the DT concerts section for the NYC show, it's sold out and secondary market is insanely expensive for a ticket. I've never seen a local show here (NY/NJ) where DT sold out. I'm super happy for them and I can only imagine the success of this album played a role (and Im sure SFAM helped too).
-
Distance Over Time got to no. 12 in the main UK Album Chart, but once again they've hit number one in the Rock Albums Chart!
Is that the best they did in the UK (main album chart)? Billboard 200 entry we can expect tomorrow, I guess.
I'd really love to see this album succeed commercially as well. They deserve it.
-
Now I’m curious, what’s the twist in Out Of Reach? What am I missing?
-
DOT entering the dutch album chart on 3th position!
Wow, at 3th place! Sounds mystical...
Glad to see the album charting very well around the world, though. These guys deserve it!
-Marc.
-
Now I’m curious, what’s the twist in Out Of Reach? What am I missing?
Yeah, I also remember reading something about a twist and hadn't picked one up.
I am loving this album so much. Fucking great. Just gets better. So awesome to be feeling this way about the band again! ;D
-
Petrucci reacting to covers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_ulo9Yp7Y
-
Petrucci reacting to covers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_ulo9Yp7Y
Just spotted that myself. It was annoying that they condensed the video so much, but JP always has a nice way about him and was very complimentary to the folks making the videos.
It always amazes me to think how many amazing musicians and singers there are out there, and most of them will never be well known or make a lot of money out of their talent.
-
A topic I haven't seen being discussed yet: how do you guys think James will be able to handle the material live? Some people here have a good idea about the highest pitch of songs etc, how does D/T compare to other albums?
-
A topic I haven't seen being discussed yet: how do you guys think James will be able to handle the material live? Some people here have a good idea about the highest pitch of songs etc, how does D/T compare to other albums?
I think the part in S2N where he goes ''Innocent die'' tops at a Bb (or something around that) during ''die''. Same thing on the ''go'' of ''Don't be afraid of letting go'' during Untethered Angel. It seems to be around his typical high notes these days. Like he sings a B in Bridges in the Sky before the instrumental for example. Not sure how well he manages those live though.
-
Distance Over Time got to no. 12 in the main UK Album Chart, but once again they've hit number one in the Rock Albums Chart!
Number 12 in the main UK chart and number 1 in Germany (for the first time) is a brilliant achievement, and fully deserved for this album. Congratulations to them.
-
A topic I haven't seen being discussed yet: how do you guys think James will be able to handle the material live? Some people here have a good idea about the highest pitch of songs etc, how does D/T compare to other albums?
I think FITL might be a shaky one for him
-
Now that I’ve listened to the album in full a few times, I feel comfortable sharing my thoughts on it, track by track.
-Untethered Angel is one of the band’s best lead singles, up there with Pull Me Under, Home, and As I Am. Also a solid album opener.
-Paralyzed is to this album what Build Me Up, Break Me Down was supposed to be to ADToE. The riffs on this song just scream out of the speakers. Special mention to John Petrucci’s solo on this one, which hasn’t been discussed much on these forums in the early stages of this album’s release. Tasteful and serves the song perfectly.
-Fall Into the Light is, IMO, the weakest of the three singles, but it’s still great. That opening riffs screams Metallica, and it had me headbanging from the moment I first heard it. The middle section sounds tremendous, and really highlights now much better the production on this album is this time around.
Side note, I kind of wish Dream Theater didn’t release the first three tracks as the promo singles, as for a lot of us, that means we already heard the first 20 minutes of the album before it was even released. Kind of nitpicky, but it would have been nice to not have to wait until track four to hear something new. Ah well, I guess that’s what I get for listening to them in the first place.
-Barstool Warrior’s placement on the album is perfect. After the first three heavy tracks, having a more progressive rock style song to diversify the flow of the album was a smart choice. It helps that this song kicks total ass, while a unique subject matter gives this song its own place in the band’s discography.
-Room 137...I really wanted to love it. I was so excited to hear what Mangini would bring to the table lyrically, and while they aren’t terrible, they aren’t great either. I don’t think that Labrie’s voice suits the melody or style of the song either. The instrumentation is also kind of bland. Not a terrible song, but certainly the weakest link and only disappointment on an otherwise great album.
-S2N picks the album back up off of the ground with a grooving intro that reminds me a bit of Take the Time and Lines in the Sand. This song is the one that reminds me most of classic Dream Theater, and i have a blast listening to it every time. The keyboard solo over the heavy riff at the end reminds me of The Dark Eternal Night, and is the perfect way to end this epic song. To quote Owen Wilson, “wow”.
-At Wit’s End has some of James’ finest lyrics. This is a difficult subject matter to write about, and he did it with grace, leading to some truly emotional moments. And then John Petrucci ends the song with one of the most beautiful guitar solos he has ever written. Easily one of the top three tracks on the album.
-Out of Reach’s placement on this record is predictable as the ballad before the bombastic album closer (standard edition anyway but we’ll get to that), but hey if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The album needed a second to breathe after AWE, and OoR has some amazing moments in its short runtime. The guitar solo with its feedback is awesome, and the ending is beautiful. Maybe not a song that I’ll come back to often outside of the album, but not one I would ever skip.
-Pale Blue Dot. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy I actually might be in love. There’s so much to say about this song. The ambient intro. The epic instrumentation. The intelligent lyrics. This song is Dream Theater at their very best. Upon the first listen of this album, this is the song that immediately grabbed my attention and it’s had it ever since. This may end up working its way into my top 10. It’s that good. Oh and this may also be Mangini’s best drum performance on an album since he joined the band. What a song.
-Viper King is easily the biggest surprise of the album. As a bonus track, I didn’t expect much, but it’s such a fun song to listen to. It doesn’t really fit in with the rest of the album which is why I guess they made it a bonus track, but I have a smile on my face for the duration of the song every time I listen to it.
In my opinion, Distance Over Time is Dream Theater’s best album since Octavarium, and I fully expect to have it in my album rotation for a very long time. 8.5/10.
-
Viper King gives me a real Deep Purple vibe. Specifically, from around the Purpendicular era which happens to have been Steve Morse's first record with them. It feels like it would fit with Ted the Mechanic and Rosa's Cantina nicely. It's like a Purple song on a few metal steroids to ratchet up the heaviness.
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
Yea quite an exaggeration to say the least
:lol yea my civic too is a better car than a viper....
Yea, the Viper is not that great of a sports car but it works better in the lyrics. Singing "My MP4-12C King" just doesn't flow. Also, the car just looks cool.
What about "My koenigsegg king"?
-
Viper King gives me a real Deep Purple vibe. Specifically, from around the Purpendicular era which happens to have been Steve Morse's first record with them. It feels like it would fit with Ted the Mechanic and Rosa's Cantina nicely. It's like a Purple song on a few metal steroids to ratchet up the heaviness.
this.
-
Distance Over Time got to no. 12 in the main UK Album Chart, but once again they've hit number one in the Rock Albums Chart!
Number 12 in the main UK chart and number 1 in Germany (for the first time) is a brilliant achievement, and fully deserved for this album. Congratulations to them.
I just wanted to post that! Great achievement for a band that makes music like this!
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53052522_2288909051168071_358247100514828288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=6fb4e6cc5def2ad3e21c0cede04ebcf5&oe=5D18A64F)
-
Wow wow wow, all this smells really good for DT!!! :metal
B.Lee
EDIT : apparently, Le Capitole in Quebec is sold out and the Salle Wilfrid Pelletier in Montreal is almost sold out.
-
DT knocking out Avantasia (actually, I think they had already moved before the release off #1) but so fucking cool to see the success of this band and album :metal :metal Looking forward to see where they land on the Billboard 200
-
#4 in Italy just behind 3 Italian pop singers (just because we recently had the Italian pop music festival)
https://www.fimi.it/top-of-the-music/classifiche.kl#/
-
#4 in Italy just behind 3 Italian pop singers (just because we recently had the Italian pop music festival)
https://www.fimi.it/top-of-the-music/classifiche.kl#/
:metal
-
I don’t see them anywhere on Billboard.
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Cant go around corners? Look at number 10 and, 16 respectively. Then look at all the cars under those two. Yeah Viper is a straight line kind of car. :facepalm:
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
-
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Seems totally reasonable.
Yea quite an exaggeration to say the least
:lol yea my civic too is a better car than a viper....
Yea, the Viper is not that great of a sports car but it works better in the lyrics. Singing "My MP4-12C King" just doesn't flow. Also, the car just looks cool.
What about "My koenigsegg king"?
:tup
Viper King reminds me of the "bonus track" off Face the Heat by the Scorpions, same sort of vibe and also out of the bands typical element.
-
Now that I’ve listened to the album in full a few times, I feel comfortable sharing my thoughts on it, track by track.
~snip~
Great post! I had pretty much all the same thoughts.
Only two things, I had difficulty finding any of the 3 singles to be weak - they're all sooo good. The other thing is that I think 137 is fantastic!
I did find the lyric "maculate" to be interesting. I actually had to look it up. Still feels a bit funny singing along to it :biggrin:
-
I agree that VK is fun and I like it but I'd like to know what is Viper King
It's a Dodge Viper - one of those stupid American muscle cars they seem to like over there that can't go round corners and is outclassed in every respect by most common European road cars. Honestly, my Ford Fiesta is better than one of those things.
Cant go around corners? Look at number 10 and, 16 respectively. Then look at all the cars under those two. Yeah Viper is a straight line kind of car. :facepalm:
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife
I think you missed the memo, 170 corners is pretty much a straight line :lol
-
My feelings in order of love to love a little less.... ;D
Room 137 :metal
Fall into the Light
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
Viper King
Pale Blue Dot
At Wit's End
S2N
Barstool Warrior
Out of Reach
On a strange note....I find Viper King to be one of the catchiest songs DT has ever put out. It still has the patented DT never gonna get radio play feel...but, catchy.
*I reserve the right to change this every minute of every day from this day forward. :biggrin:
-
Loving the new album - JP & MM is kickass; JR is great "restrained"; and JM's bass is just sexy!
-
Am I the only one that feels that time flies while listening to the new album? I mean, ok, it's actually short but Train of Thought was only 9 minutes longer... it's just that the song not only are concise enough, but also they don't wander off the rails and they always keep it focused so by the time I'm listening to the final parts of S2N, I'm like "wow, we're already near the two epics of the album". This album flows away quite nicely and there's no fatigue and no "obstacle" to pass through (an ugly song, a pointless and prolonged solo section, stuff like that... nothing of the sorts on this album).
-
Looks like D/T is sitting at number 12 in the main UK album chart:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3MpClRLZKLPsFVXZ4nh9kSY/the-official-uk-top-40-albums-chart
and #1 in the Rock/Metal chart:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/rock-and-metal-albums-chart/
-
Looks like D/T is sitting at number 12 in the main UK album chart:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/albums-chart/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3MpClRLZKLPsFVXZ4nh9kSY/the-official-uk-top-40-albums-chart
and #1 in the Rock/Metal chart:
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/rock-and-metal-albums-chart/
That rocks!
-
I'm still waiting for my artbook, but I've listened to the album a bunch over the last week and I love it. I've just read the first few pages of this thread but it seems to be getting a positive reception, which is awesome.
At Wit's End is my favorite.
-
I'm still waiting for my artbook, but I've listened to the album a bunch over the last week and I love it. I've just read the first few pages of this thread but it seems to be getting a positive reception, which is awesome.
At Wit's End is my favorite.
It's mine too, but the album as a whole is killer!
B.Lee
-
Mine too. A definite top 5 DT song for me.
The part leading into the outro solo still hits me, even after a week of constant listening.
-
Now I’m curious, what’s the twist in Out Of Reach? What am I missing?
Yeah, I'm also missing that twist, I think somebody hinted at ghosts or something like that some pages ago. I've read the lyrics and I don't find the twist.
-
Now I’m curious, what’s the twist in Out Of Reach? What am I missing?
Yeah, I'm also missing that twist, I think somebody hinted at ghosts or something like that some pages ago. I've read the lyrics and I don't find the twist.
This might be unrelated to the twist you guys are talking about, but JP used a baritone guitar on this song..
-
Am I the only one that feels that time flies while listening to the new album? I mean, ok, it's actually short but Train of Thought was only 9 minutes longer... it's just that the song not only are concise enough, but also they don't wander off the rails and they always keep it focused so by the time I'm listening to the final parts of S2N, I'm like "wow, we're already near the two epics of the album". This album flows away quite nicely and there's no fatigue and no "obstacle" to pass through (an ugly song, a pointless and prolonged solo section, stuff like that... nothing of the sorts on this album).
Yes, this was very evident when I was listening to it while doing work around the house.
-
Am I the only one that feels that time flies while listening to the new album? I mean, ok, it's actually short but Train of Thought was only 9 minutes longer... it's just that the song not only are concise enough, but also they don't wander off the rails and they always keep it focused so by the time I'm listening to the final parts of S2N, I'm like "wow, we're already near the two epics of the album". This album flows away quite nicely and there's no fatigue and no "obstacle" to pass through (an ugly song, a pointless and prolonged solo section, stuff like that... nothing of the sorts on this album).
Yes, this was very evident when I was listening to it while doing work around the house.
Yeah, the album flies by so quickly it's astonishing (hint intended). I've listened more than 15 times since last week and it seems I've had just a few listens. What a killer album!
B.Lee
-
I finally bought the album the other day and I'm loving it so far. I haven't been this excited about the band since the self titled album came out, which feels like ages ago. It's so much easier to digest and enjoy than The Astonishing for me (even though I did really enjoy some of TA, it does contain a top 10 DT song for me in Ravenskill).
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
Bite me. It’s called an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t judge and insult others for having a different opinion than your own.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
Bite me. It’s called an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t judge and insult others for having a different opinion than your own.
Didn’t mean anything harsh by it. Just my way of saying I disagree.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
Bite me. It’s called an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t judge and insult others for having a different opinion than your own.
Didn’t mean anything harsh by it. Just my way of saying I disagree.
Yeah, well there’s a much better way of disagreeing, without being an asshole.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
Bite me. It’s called an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t judge and insult others for having a different opinion than your own.
Didn’t mean anything harsh by it. Just my way of saying I disagree.
Yeah, well there’s a much better way of disagreeing, without being an asshole.
Speaking of assholes..
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
That’s a level of stupid I’ve not heard in quite some time.
Bite me. It’s called an opinion. Maybe you shouldn’t judge and insult others for having a different opinion than your own.
Didn’t mean anything harsh by it. Just my way of saying I disagree.
Yeah, well there’s a much better way of disagreeing, without being an asshole.
Speaking of assholes..
Calling someone out for calling me stupid because I happen to not like the album makes me the asshole? Your logic seems off, but okay.
-
I apologize if what I said was taken the wrong way, meant that as a joke. I disagree with your statement.
-
Let me get this back on track.... THIS ALBUM ROCKS! Just blasted it in my car and it's such a fun album.
Definitely the most playful and enjoyable album start-finish by DT in many many years.
The only two songs I would even consider skipping are UA and R137 but I still think both are far from terrible.
Outside of those two though I am loving every track.
It won't penetrate by big 4 (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, Awake) but I am quite certain it will land at #5.
They did a great job of incorporating all styles in this album and Labrie is definitely unleashed now... finally! The last three albums(especially TA and D/T but also DT) have been Labrie's best performances since SDOIT in my opinion. Please continue to sing in this style James! I love the full sounding over the top vocalist named James Labrie... I don't love the thin sinister James and I feel like he has finally shelved that and gone back to the over the top vocals. Love it!!!!
-
He didn’t call you stupid, just what you said is stupid. There’s a difference. Giving your opinion is one thing. But when you say that one of DT’s albums “a steaming pile of shit” and another “absolute garbage” than don’t act all offended when someone strongly disagrees with you.
-
I haven't thoroughly enjoyed a DT album since ADTOE, so this has been quite refreshing. Still not sure how I feel about all of it, but Pale Blue Dot is a fucking banger.
-
Just in case anyone is still interested, my order for the box set on Amazon just changed status from “pending“ to “arriving March 25th-April 12th”
Now....it sucks that I have to wait that long, but considering that it is sold out everywhere else, and I was beginning to fear I wouldn’t get one AT ALL, this new development gives me hope.
-
Just in case anyone is still interested, my order for the box set on Amazon just changed status from “pending“ to “arriving March 25th-April 12th”
Now....it sucks that I have to wait that long, but considering that it is sold out everywhere else, and I was beginning to fear I wouldn’t get one AT ALL, this new development gives me hope.
That's one main reason why I always order from the band.
-
With the exception of Fall Into the Light, Room 137 and S2n, this album is awful. One of their absolute worst, for sure.
I take it you like the heavier side of DT on the most part?
-
He didn’t call you stupid, just what you said is stupid. There’s a difference. Giving your opinion is one thing. But when you say that one of DT’s albums “a steaming pile of shit” and another “absolute garbage” than don’t act all offended when someone strongly disagrees with you.
Absolutely THIS
-
Just in case anyone is still interested, my order for the box set on Amazon just changed status from “pending“ to “arriving March 25th-April 12th”
Now....it sucks that I have to wait that long, but considering that it is sold out everywhere else, and I was beginning to fear I wouldn’t get one AT ALL, this new development gives me hope.
That's weird. Mine still says "Delivery Estimate: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 by 8pm". Hopefully I get shipping confirmation in the next two days from Amazon. If I do, I'll be sure to update here, but please let me know if you get any other updates, fellow Amazon Box-set pre-orderer! :tup
-Marc.
-
Am I the only one that feels that time flies while listening to the new album? I mean, ok, it's actually short but Train of Thought was only 9 minutes longer... it's just that the song not only are concise enough, but also they don't wander off the rails and they always keep it focused so by the time I'm listening to the final parts of S2N, I'm like "wow, we're already near the two epics of the album". This album flows away quite nicely and there's no fatigue and no "obstacle" to pass through (an ugly song, a pointless and prolonged solo section, stuff like that... nothing of the sorts on this album).
Yep. Mine is on repeat, and just about every single time I’m like “oh wow there’s Unthetered Angel again”. Album does go by fast. But even at just over an hour long, it’s still longer than most albums in the industry which are at about 40-45 minutes. So it might be DT’s shortest album, yes it is still longer than average.
-
I apologize if what I said was taken the wrong way, meant that as a joke. I disagree with your statement.
Now, ask Stewie when was the last time he liked a DT album.
-
My artbook was supposedly shipped from Germany on the 18th and still hasn't arrived here and I'm starting to get really pissed off.
-
.
-
Distance Over Time entered at # 3 in the Dutch (Netherlands) album chart. :metal
-
Awesome! But what's up with Billboard, shouldn't the album enter it by now?
-
Has anyone heard/read an interview concerning what Paralyzed and Out Of Reach are about? Of course I have my own thoughts but I would be interested to know what they are meant to be about...
-
Distance Over Time entered at # 3 in the Dutch (Netherlands) album chart. :metal
Superb chart results as of now. Great!
B.Lee
-
Has anyone heard/read an interview concerning what Paralyzed and Out Of Reach are about? Of course I have my own thoughts but I would be interested to know what they are meant to be about...
This is something I posted before about "Out of Reach". Dont know how credible it is! Apparently the song is about a guy who meets a girl at a coffee shop.
"I wanted to write a song about how people are affected when they lose a loved one," LaBrie said in a Songfacts interview. "This guy notices an absolutely beautiful girl, and at first he thinks she has it all going for her: she's beautiful, well-dressed, seems to be financially stable. But as he sees her from day to day, sitting at her table, he realizes there is a sadness to her. So, the lyric is about him trying to communicate to her to rediscover love, because he sees that something is seriously missing in her life due to a loss."
-
I put on Pale Blue Dot while taking my son to school this morning.
He didn't say anything during the keyboard intro, but once the drums kicked in he asked, "Dad, is this the Monster Mash?"
-
:lol
-
Awesome! But what's up with Billboard, shouldn't the album enter it by now?
I believe the Billboard 200 charts are updated on Saturday, but are only released to the public on Tuesday. So we will know their position tomorrow.
-
Here's hoping for top 10!
-
Sorry everyone for the off topic but I just have to compliment EPIC Outro on his choice of avatar (wanted to do that since quite some time). Awesome and wonderful album, one of the very best of Rage, when you all guys grow tired of Distance Over Time, go check out Rage's End of All Days :metal :hat
-
He didn’t call you stupid, just what you said is stupid. There’s a difference. Giving your opinion is one thing. But when you say that one of DT’s albums “a steaming pile of shit” and another “absolute garbage” than don’t act all offended when someone strongly disagrees with you.
Absolutely THIS
Yeah, I don't get it. I am not into Queensryche these days but I would not go on their forum and insult the album like that. Maybe, that I like this and that but the rest I am not into.
Anyhow, back on topic. I am literally addicted to this album!
-
Given Stewie's string of posts outright insulting the band and other forum members, and previous warnings in the past, there's no point in future warnings. He has been shown the door.
Now let's get the discussion back on track.
-
Stewie doesn't really sound like a fan... I agreed slightly with one of his posts but there is a constructive way to express your opinions.
His posts come from hate and not love. If I critique DT its like critiquing my child... I want them to clean their room because I have seen what their room looks like clean and I know how beautiful it can look :)
This album is great though... everyone will have complaints but its the most consistent album they have made since SDOIT IMO.
-
This album is great though... everyone will have complaints but its the most consistent album they have made since SDOIT IMO.
Honestly, I think all of their albums in the Mangini era have been models of consistency, unlike anything they had done before. The Astonishing is the only one of the four Mangini-era albums that I would not say that about. But, obviously, what they were going for with that album was so different that I don't even think it makes sense to analyze it using the same criteria we would for other more "normal" albums. But, again, my point is simply that I find ADTOE and DT12 to be incredibly consistent as well.
-
I can say that Pale Blue Dot is an instant grower. In the first three days I was like: well, ok. This is kinda cool but nothing much. Now this is a must play for me.
The first spins of my ranking:
1- At Wit's End
2- Barstool Warrior
3- S2N
4- Out Of Reach
5- Paralyzed
6- Room 137
7- Viper King
8- Fall Into The Light
9- Pale Blue Dot (I didn't expect it to be that bad for my taste)
10- Untehered Angel
Current Ranking:
1- At Wit's End
2- Barstool Warrior
3- Pale Blue Dot
4- S2N
5- Paralyzed
6- Out Of Reach
7- Fall Into The Light
8- Viper King
9- Room 137
10- Untethered Angel
-
I can say that Pale Blue Dot is an instant grower. In the first three days I was like: well, ok. This is kinda cool but nothing much. Now this is a must play for me.
The first spins of my ranking:
1- At Wit's End
2- Barstool Warrior
3- S2N
4- Out Of Reach
5- Paralyzed
6- Room 137
7- Viper King
8- Fall Into The Light
9- Pale Blue Dot (I didn't expect it to be that bad for my taste)
10- Untehered Angel
Current Ranking:
1- At Wit's End
2- Barstool Warrior
3- Pale Blue Dot
4- S2N
5- Paralyzed
6- Out Of Reach
7- Fall Into The Light
8- Viper King
9- Room 137
10- Untethered Angel
That is pretty spot on. I reserve the right to reorder the whole thing but I think your AWE at #1 and your r137 and ua at 9 and 10 will always stick.
As for consistency ....
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album since SDOIT.
I would take both of those over:
AS I AM
I walk beside you, These Walls
Constant Motion
Right of Passage
Build me up Break me down
Enemy Inside
Several tracks on TA (Although I love TA)
So I just think from start to finish on D/T there are no duds.
-
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album
:lol That's a great way of putting it.
-
Taking a break from DOT
Just wanted to post that I don't care for "D/T" especially with so many who call the band's twelfth album "DT"
-
Same here. But since that is the abbreviation the band went with, I think we're stuck with it.
-
Same here. But since that is the abbreviation the band went with, I think we're stuck with it.
What the band decides shouldn't have much importance. We're nerds and obsessed fans, WE decide what an album is called and/or abbreviated.
;D
(Kiddin' of course)
-
I've actually only seen it as "d/t" in the official artwork posted online, in all lowercase, not uppercase. Is that too nitpicky? :rollin
-Marc.
-
Taking a break from DOT
Just wanted to post that I don't care for "D/T" especially with so many who call the band's twelfth album "DT"
DT12 seems to be the standard abbreviation for the self-titled record.
I am good with D/T or DoT in regards to the new album.
-
As for consistency ....
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album since SDOIT.
Yeah, this is a good point. Even at the album's weakest points for me personally (PBD and Barstool Warrior) are still pretty strong by DT standards. Like, yeah, they have issues, but there's still plenty to like about them.
Speaking of having issues with still plenty to like, At Wit's End is really growing on me. The song overall still has some flow issues I think and it feels like two songs taped together, but those are two great songs that have been taped together.
-
As for consistency ....
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album since SDOIT.
Yeah, this is a good point. Even at the album's weakest points for me personally (PBD and Barstool Warrior) are still pretty strong by DT standards. Like, yeah, they have issues, but there's still plenty to like about them.
Speaking of having issues with still plenty to like, At Wit's End is really growing on me. The song overall still has some flow issues I think and it feels like two songs taped together, but those are two great songs that have been taped together.
I think that At Wit's Ends change is a reflection of the conversation between the man and woman. He is mostly first, the music being about the ugliness of her attack, his frustration in not being able to help her and the relationship in turmoil. When it shifts, the piano is soft and she explains her points, her sufferings. Then the music takes on that melancholy hopeless sound, with the reprise indicating it's over. Just my thoughts :smiley:
-
I returned to Pale blue dot today. God damn, that song is fantastic! :metal
-
Hard to rank but what the heck...every song is a winner
Pale Blue Dot
At Wit's End
Barstool Warrior
S2N
Room 137
Paralyzed
Fall Into The Light
Untethered Angel
Viper King
Out Of Reach
-
As for consistency ....
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album since SDOIT.
Yeah, this is a good point. Even at the album's weakest points for me personally (PBD and Barstool Warrior) are still pretty strong by DT standards. Like, yeah, they have issues, but there's still plenty to like about them.
Speaking of having issues with still plenty to like, At Wit's End is really growing on me. The song overall still has some flow issues I think and it feels like two songs taped together, but those are two great songs that have been taped together.
I think that At Wit's Ends change is a reflection of the conversation between the man and woman. He is mostly first, the music being about the ugliness of her attack, his frustration in not being able to help her and the relationship in turmoil. When it shifts, the piano is soft and she explains her points, her sufferings. Then the music takes on that melancholy hopeless sound, with the reprise indicating it's over. Just my thoughts :smiley:
I think that's either dead-on, or at the very least VERY close to it.
-
I held off ranking (don't be fooled by the few postings; long time lurker here) until I had digested it all. Here is my ranking of the songs:
1. At Wit's End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. Untethered Angel (I like it more than most; love the solos back and forth and great chorus)
5. S2N
6. Viper King
7. Out of Reach
8. Room 137
9. Fall Into the Light
10. Paralyzed
I find that the second and third singles are the weakest tracks for me. They are just "meh". They aren't particularly sonically interesting (whereas I think Untethered Angel is very sonically interesting). The slow section on FitL seems "thrown in" and there is no coherent theme in the song (the riff from the first section doesn't really appear in the third, for example).
I absolutely love AWE, BW, and PBD and think that they are the three best songs that I have heard from them since ADTOE.
-
As for consistency ....
I think UA and R137 may be the best "worst" songs on any album since SDOIT.
Yeah, this is a good point. Even at the album's weakest points for me personally (PBD and Barstool Warrior) are still pretty strong by DT standards. Like, yeah, they have issues, but there's still plenty to like about them.
Speaking of having issues with still plenty to like, At Wit's End is really growing on me. The song overall still has some flow issues I think and it feels like two songs taped together, but those are two great songs that have been taped together.
I think that At Wit's Ends change is a reflection of the conversation between the man and woman. He is mostly first, the music being about the ugliness of her attack, his frustration in not being able to help her and the relationship in turmoil. When it shifts, the piano is soft and she explains her points, her sufferings. Then the music takes on that melancholy hopeless sound, with the reprise indicating it's over. Just my thoughts :smiley:
That makes a lot of sense. Great analysis! It makes me like the song a bit more. The way they did that reminds me of Outcry a bit, where the hectic middle section represents the actual revolution that the song is all about in a way
-
I usually don't rank stuff, but I'll give it a go -
1. At Wit's End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. S2N
4. Pale Blue Dot
5. Fall into the Light
6. Paralyzed
7. Untethered Angel
8. Out of Reach
9. Room 137
Not sure where I'd rank Viper King, it's such a different vibe from the rest of the album. I'm not a fan of James' verse vocals, if they wrote a slightly lower vocal line, it would be near the top of the list. As it stands, it probably falls somewhere in the middle or bottom middle.
-
After serveral days, I would go with this one
1. At Wit's End/ Pale Blue Dot/ Paralyzed
4. Barstool Warrior
5. S2N/ Fall Into the Light
7. Untethered Angel
8. Vipre King
9. Out of Reach/ Room 137
-
So, this album has basically renewed my love for Dream Theater! I didn't fall out of love or anything like that but I was distracted with other things in general and wasn't really actively listening to DT the last couple of months. Well, until now that is.
I'm really loving the whole album! I'd say my favorite tracks are AWE, S2N, UA (I tend to really enjoy their singles) and I think Viper King, it's such a fun song!
Also, hats off to JLB for writing about such a difficult topic in AWE and pulling it off with so much grace.
Anyway, I think in two days I'll know about the Swiss album chart placement and I'm quite excited! They were at Nr. 2 for the iTunes chart on release day and as of today they're still at Nr. 22, so I feel like the interest is surely there. I can never really figure out the Swiss music market, though, so we'll see! ;D
-
After quite some listenings, here's what I've come to think of the album...
The good
Such a lot of stuff. The very inception of the record. Their desire to go away for a while and work as a family, with everyone having their say. A teamwork even in the lyrics, which are all various degrees of good with no corny moments. The production. ALL the songs, because all the songs are great and there is no stinker. The fact that everything was kept concise and to the point, making this an album very easy to listen to, and not "easy" because they're all commercial short songs. And of course the many brilliant moments (Fall Into the Light's melodic solo, the melodies of Barstool Warrior, basically all of At Wit's End...) discussed at lenght in these pages. Basically this is the album I more or less imagined they would do, and it's what they gave the idea they could do by their description of it. A modern, current Dream Theater album with a lot of both heavy and melodic moments and no cringeworthy moments.
The bad
Basically nothing. There's nothing on this album that is bad, mediocre or very sub par.
The "It's not that I don't like it, I do, really, but...
Oh boy, here comes the minor nitpicking that will get me lynched :lol I like all the songs to the point that I can't even pick a clear favorite, nor a lesser one, but.... there are little details here and there throughout the songs that made me feel that with just some minor improvements they could have been so much better.
Stating the obvious, this is how I experienced the songs, it's not that I know better than DT about writing a song of course.... but here are the, albeit VERY MINOR DETAILS, things that I wish could have changed a bit:
- As I said before (I promise it's the last time :lol), the choruses. Never with a DT album I had thought so many times (or probably I never thought it at all period) "where are the choruses?". Took me quite some time to accept that what felt a bridge at best were the actual choruses in Fall into the Light, Room 137 and Barstool Warrior. Out of the three, the latter probably has the best choruses, but at the first listenings it totally felt like a bridge and there was no climax like it happens for example in Bridges in the Sky, when after two times of "Sun, come shine my way" it explodes in the grandiose "And at last the time has come".
- Even when there are choruses, they seem to cut down on the momentum. Unthetered Angel is fine, but when in the final chorus the end of it is near, with that little pause after "Don't be afraid of letting go......" seemed a good moment to repeat it twice, and only after the second time finishing with "open your heart, be set free". Uh well, no biggie.
But take Paralyzed for example, it goes, capitalizing for emphasis, "A HEART THAT FEELS NO PAIN, ADDICTED TO THE GAME", you're in the moment, and then "BREAKING BENEATH the strain... I am paralyzed". It winds down too soon. Yes, I get that it gets repeated a lot at the end which is the climax of the song, but during the piece it feels to short.
Same for At Wit's End, best chorus of the album, but then again, "DON'T LEAVE ME NOW, DON'T LEAVE ME NOW, I KNOW THAT IT'S TEARING YOU APART", hell yeah, wonderful, then "DON'T LEAVE ME NOW, DON'T LEAVE ME NOW, come undone". Already? again, not every song has to be the same but.... it winds down just when I was so pumped up.
- Solo sections: they're all concise and to the point, and even when they really go for it, like the end of Fall into the Light and S2N, they keep it to the point rather than going off the rails for three minutes. But, at the same time, they just... start and end, there's no sense of bringing it to a conclusion. I'm there listening to S2N and Pale Blue Dot and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, "oh here comes back the chorus". I've always complained of the long solo sections of previous albums, like for example The Ministry of Lost Souls, but at least the end of that "wankfest" has that big dramatic unison piece that leads back into the initial riff, you know it's climaxing. This doesn't happen on this record.
- Pale Blue Dot... I like the song. But I almost spoiled it for myself having enormous expectations given how much I love the subject matter, which I think is so wonderful and intelligent that it should have been reserved for Illumination Theory, whose music would serve the Pale Blue Dot speech much better than a generic menancing and eerie song. If I forget the song is named Pale Blue Dot, I have no complaints.
----
So, as I said: the point is not that DT did some things wrong and that I know better. Of course not. But as little as these nitpickings are, they "annoy" me because I like everything about the album, from the approach to the actual songs, and to feel that, for my own and solely personal tastes obviously, they've come THIS CLOSE to create songs that I would call perfect falling short of these minor details it just irks me a bit. Like, to make a silly example, "yes, I like this car, it's everything I wanted it to be, it's not that you got me a totally different car, but.... couldn't the color be just a tiny bit darker and couldn't the interiors be just a tiny little bit more comfortable for my butt and couldn't the placement of the steering wheel have been not different, just one little cm nearer to me?"
I mean, I am so close to love the album to death, but I "just" like it a lot. And I fear in the long run it won't have much longevity for me. But for now I spin it as much as I can 'cause it grows stronger with every listening. Perphaps in a month or two I'll come back here to eat my own words, but for now I'm just this short of really, truly, madly loving the album that it's a pity.
Glad at least that the vast majority of the fanbase embraces it even more than me, this sense of global excitement is great, expecially after not everyone shared my complete enthusiasm and adoration for The Astonishing.
-
There are definitely things on this album that keep it from truly being a "GREAT" record IMO but seriously, it's the bands 14th album now, James is 55 years old, and the band is already incredibly established as legends and has literally nothing to prove.
Considering all of that... I think this is a pretty fantastic effort.
I think its a return to a writing style that most of us have been pining for since TOT came out and for that I am truly excited about the future of DT.
-
Since everyone be ranking stuff:
1. At Wit's End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. Fall Into the Light
5. S2N
6. Untethered Angel
7. Out of Reach
8. Paralyzed
9. Room 137
1 - 4 are pretty good to me and stand as great DT tracks all around, with maybe a few nitpicky gripes I have with them here and there. 5 - 7 are ok but don't really stand out to me much and are just kinda "there" to me. Not much that would keep me coming back but are fine enough in the album's context. 8 and 9 I honestly don't like much at all, with some really questionable song writing decisions throughout on both songs.
-
I think most people agree that the "room mic" jam section at the end of Wits End is awesome. I suspect they thought it sounded so good they decided to tack it on. I love it too.
That said, I find the long fade out...big pause...fade back in to be awkward. What I think would have worked better is if they started the fade out at the same time they started the fade in, so the studio recording just faded right into room mic bit, and then the song ended. I think that would have sounded much better.
-
That said, I find the long fade out...big pause...fade back in to be awkward. What I think would have worked better is if they started the fade out at the same time they started the fade in, so the studio recording just faded right into room mic bit, and then the song ended. I think that would have sounded much better.
Oh, I agree on this and I thought it myself too. Well, the complete pause helps for an easy editing job for those with even rudimentary sound editing skills.
-
I have to say, this album has grown on me even more. I'd put it up there with some of my favorites, but likely just below them. Probably a top 5 album for me at this point. Of course, this could just be the newness of it that's hitting me.
-
Here's where I am:
Killer: Room 137, S2N
These weren't the ones that stood out on first listen, but they're the ones I keep coming back to. Just keep rising for me.
Great: Untethered Angel, At Wit's End, Pale Blue Dot, Viper King
At Wit's End has dropped a little bit - I thought it was the standout track the first time I listened (and, honestly, one of only two worth writing home about) and while I still love it, I'm not craving it. Opposite is true of everything else. PBD is a great song in the wrong place. Pompous chaos, but not a good closer. Viper King is a stronger note to end on!
Good: Paralyzed, Barstool Warrior
BW was an early favourite, but doesn't offer much that I don't get from other DT songs (The Bigger Picture among them). Paralyzed is a perfectly decent single, no more or less.
So-so: Fall into the Light, Out of Reach
Wanted to love them, don't quite. But there's still time! It happened for Pale Blue Dot.
-
I think I would like Viper King more if JP had played it with a normal 6-string in standard tuning. Or am I incorrect in assuming he didn’t?
-
afaik he plays a 7-string on Viper King
-
So far my favorite part is the slow section in Fall into the Light. I love the melody and the slow build to the power cords. Very epic. I know some of the other some are better overall but I just get pumped with that section.
-
So far my favorite part is the slow section in Fall into the Light. I love the melody and the slow build to the power cords. Very epic. I know some of the other some are better overall but I just get pumped with that section.
Oh so much this! Very powerful moment on the record, goosebump material..
-
So far my favorite part is the slow section in Fall into the Light. I love the melody and the slow build to the power cords. Very epic. I know some of the other some are better overall but I just get pumped with that section.
I remember feeling “meh” when Unthetered Angel dropped. But when FITL dropped I was just in awe, from that retro pentatonic riff that reminded me a bit of the 80’s, and that absolutely killer tone with that thrash-esque riff in standard tuning, with JM’s bass kicking in and then with Mangini double kicking to the riff. Then that slow section which culminates with a very ride the lightning guitar tone moment. I knew right then this album was going to be good.
So here’s my ranking:
1. Fall Into the Light
2. At Wit’s End
3. S2N
4. Pale Blue Dot
5. Room 137
6. Paralyzed
7. Barstool Warrior
8. Out Of Reach
9. Viper King
10. Unthetered Angel
The top 3 can easily change tomorrow though.
-
My ranking:
S2N
Pale Blue Dot
At Wit's End
Barstool Warrior
Paralyzed
Room 137
Viper King
Fall Into The Light
Out Of Reach
Untethered Angel
What I really like about this album is the overall energy of the songs. You can clearly hear that this was a fun album for them to make. For me, it feels like the most inspired record they have done in a while. I hope they continue writing albums collectively in the future.
This is defenitely Mangini's strongest album IMO. S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot has some insane, yet tasty drumming!
The production is fine overall, but the mix/mastering feels a bit to loud at parts. One example is in S2N when James sings "Have you heard the news". The clipping of the vocal-track really throws me off.
There is so many great parts and ideas on this record, but sometimes I feel the arrangements could have been better. Pale Blue Dot and Barstool Warrior has some sections that I wish they could have worked on a bit more to get the transitions smoother.
Controversial opinion:
I love James, but he feel very forced in the upper regions of his register on this album. I don't think he delivers a bad performance, but this is probably the album with the weakest vocal-performance from him IMO.
I probably sound a bit critical, but I think it's a really strong album. Probably their best since Octavarium (I love that album).
-
My ranking:
S2N
Pale Blue Dot
At Wit's End
Barstool Warrior
Paralyzed
Room 137
Viper King
Fall Into The Light
Out Of Reach
Untethered Angel
What I really like about this album is the overall energy of the songs. You can clearly hear that this was a fun album for them to make. For me, it feels like the most inspired record they have done in a while. I hope they continue writing albums collectively in the future.
This is defenitely Mangini's strongest album IMO. S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot has some insane, yet tasty drumming!
The production is fine overall, but the mix/mastering feels a bit to loud at parts. One example is in S2N when James sings "Have you heard the news". The clipping of the vocal-track really throws me off.
There is so many great parts and ideas on this record, but sometimes I feel the arrangements could have been better. Pale Blue Dot and Barstool Warrior has some sections that I wish they could have worked on a bit more to get the transitions smoother.
Controversial opinion:
I love James, but he feel very forced in the upper regions of his register on this album. I don't think he delivers a bad performance, but this is probably the album with the weakest vocal-performance from him IMO.
I probably sound a bit critical, but I think it's a really strong album. Probably their best since Octavarium (I love that album).
I could not disagree more about JlB performance. Now I have been very critical of him over the years. I believe that’s why I’m being “watched”, I’m sure it was some harsh comment about him some years ago. He sounds more natural in this album than any other album since as far back as 6DOIT.
-
My ranking:
S2N
Pale Blue Dot
At Wit's End
Barstool Warrior
Paralyzed
Room 137
Viper King
Fall Into The Light
Out Of Reach
Untethered Angel
What I really like about this album is the overall energy of the songs. You can clearly hear that this was a fun album for them to make. For me, it feels like the most inspired record they have done in a while. I hope they continue writing albums collectively in the future.
This is defenitely Mangini's strongest album IMO. S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot has some insane, yet tasty drumming!
The production is fine overall, but the mix/mastering feels a bit to loud at parts. One example is in S2N when James sings "Have you heard the news". The clipping of the vocal-track really throws me off.
There is so many great parts and ideas on this record, but sometimes I feel the arrangements could have been better. Pale Blue Dot and Barstool Warrior has some sections that I wish they could have worked on a bit more to get the transitions smoother.
Controversial opinion:
I love James, but he feel very forced in the upper regions of his register on this album. I don't think he delivers a bad performance, but this is probably the album with the weakest vocal-performance from him IMO.
I probably sound a bit critical, but I think it's a really strong album. Probably their best since Octavarium (I love that album).
I could not disagree more about JlB performance. Now I have been very critical of him over the years. I believe that’s why I’m being “watched”, I’m sure it was some harsh comment about him some years ago. He sounds more natural in this album than any other album since as far back as 6DOIT.
I second this... James is excellent on this album! I mentioned in another thread that he finally sounds “unleashed”. I love the over the top vocal style of James... it’s honestly what made me fall in love with dream theater as a kid before I realized how much of an unpenatrable force jp is. Completely agree that this is the most natural sounding album from James since 6doit!
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
-
Barstool Warrior is such a drag. It's under 7 minutes and it feels like 14. So far not much has changed in my initial ranking, Paralyzed and At Wit's End keep growing on me and remain at 1 and 2 respectively.
-
Barstool Warrior is such a drag. It's under 7 minutes and it feels like 14.
For me, it just flies by. Tastiest piece of music by them in a while.
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
Damn, that's quite a drop. The previous four albums were all in the top 10, if I recall correctly. Maybe The Astonishing was eleventh or something.
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
That is quite low compared to previous albums and other countries charts. It will be interesting to see how many copies it’s sold.
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
Damn, that's quite a drop. The previous four albums were all in the top 10, if I recall correctly. Maybe The Astonishing was eleventh or something.
Just checked and yeah looks like The Astonishing was 11.
I wonder how much streaming has played a part in the performance of the album as well. I am quite surprised especially considering the strong performance of the album outside of the US. Do we know how well it has done on the more specialist charts, things like the Rock Albums, etc?
-
For reference, I looked up the chart positions of each DT album & made this graph:
(https://i.imgur.com/IiY5PHf.png)
Note: I couldn't get Google Sheets to invert the Y-axis, so in this case lower is actually better.
-
For reference, I looked up the chart positions of each DT album & made this graph:
(https://i.imgur.com/IiY5PHf.png)
Note: I couldn't get Google Sheets to invert the Y-axis, so in this case lower is actually better.
Thanks for that! Such an irony that Scenes From a Memory, arguably their finest album (for me it is), is the lowest-charting album of their career by some distance.
I mean, of course I know there is no correlation between quality and chart positions, but hey.
-
Thanks for that! Such an irony that Scenes From a Memory, arguably their finest album, (for me it is) is the lowest-charting album of their career by some distance.
I mean, of course I know there is no correlation between quality and chart positions, but hey.
What do you expect. The masses wouldn't know great music if it punched them senseless in the face.
-
Thanks for that! Such an irony that Scenes From a Memory, arguably their finest album, (for me it is) is the lowest-charting album of their career by some distance.
I mean, of course I know there is no correlation between quality and chart positions, but hey.
What do you expect. The masses wouldn't know great music if it punched them senseless in the face.
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
Damn, that's quite a drop. The previous four albums were all in the top 10, if I recall correctly. Maybe The Astonishing was eleventh or something.
Just checked and yeah looks like The Astonishing was 11.
I wonder how much streaming has played a part in the performance of the album as well. I am quite surprised especially considering the strong performance of the album outside of the US. Do we know how well it has done on the more specialist charts, things like the Rock Albums, etc?
It is 4th on Rock albums and 3rd on Hard Rock albums.
Does anyone know the historical performance of these albums? All we know is their peaks. BCSL peaked at 6, but is that where it started, or did it start lower and climb there?
-
I wonder if the lower position could be to do with the move to InsideOut?
There certainly seem to be a lot less copies available in stores here than I remember. In fact, HMV (probably the biggest music/film shop in the UK) did not have 1 single copy in store on release day. This surprised me, normally I can guarantee a copy there...
Not sure if the continuing shift to downloads/streaming has affected things (though I thought these were counted these days in charts?).
Either way, if that graph proves anything, is that sales =/= quality!
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
Damn, that's quite a drop. The previous four albums were all in the top 10, if I recall correctly. Maybe The Astonishing was eleventh or something.
Just checked and yeah looks like The Astonishing was 11.
I wonder how much streaming has played a part in the performance of the album as well. I am quite surprised especially considering the strong performance of the album outside of the US. Do we know how well it has done on the more specialist charts, things like the Rock Albums, etc?
It is 4th on Rock albums and 3rd on Hard Rock albums.
Does anyone know the historical performance of these albums? All we know is their peaks. BCSL peaked at 6, but is that where it started, or did it start lower and climb there?
I believe they tend to start at those points and then drop pretty quickly off of the charts unfortunately. Will be interesting to see if this one does have any longevity.
-
afaik he plays a 7-string on Viper King
I don't understand that choice at all. If you're recording a straight-up VH/DP rock song, you don't muddy it up by playing it heavier than it needs to be.
-
So D/T landed at #24 on Billboard 200. Not the performance that I was expecting, seeing as previous albums reached higher places. Though I can't remember if they debuted on these positions or they climbed to peak there.
They have quite some competition because the Queen albums are hogging the charts because of Bohemian Rhapsody. Without the Queen albums, they would have topped the hard rock charts.
-
Album equivalent units. That don't at all factor in length of albums or songs. In the US, they started to count these towards album sales in late 2014. 1250 song streams on a paid service count as a sale (3750 on a free ad supported service).
If you have an hour long record with 10 tracks, or a 35 minute record with 18 tracks, the latter is getting more 'sales' in a shorter amount of time, even if they get the same number of start to finish album plays.
The Astonishing was actually decently set up for this, with 34 tracks per full listen (with maybe one or two of the shorter interludes not counting).
Distance Over Time on the other hand is 9 tracks per full listen (I legitimately don't know if Viper King counts toward album sales for this, since it's a 'bonus track').
Then you have a zillion Soundcloud rappers on the charts, who have been on there since, well would you look at that, early 2015. Right after this change was made. They were barely selling any records when people had to actually spend money, but they've really shot up with streaming. Most of them tend to have albums with short run times and lots of tracks, which inflates their 'sales' under the new system.
It will be very interesting to see what the actual sales numbers were for D/T.
As an aside, Distance Over Time debuted at #12 here in Canada.
-
There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.
On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
-
Hi there fellas ,
I’ve ben listening Distance Over Time since it’s release , I can easily say this , this album is their best work since 2000 .
Great album, great quality.
Dream Theater rocks 🤘🤘🤘.
85/100 .
🤘🤘🤘
-
Mericege, welcome to the board! Great first post btw. :tup
-
So, I've been out of the loop, has the BluRay been released by now?
-
There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.
On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
So this is the classic Billboard chart thay excludes streaming. So this means THIS IS THEIR HIGHEST CHARTING ALBUM.
-
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
This could be why d/t started low. I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.
Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases). I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.
-
Album equivalent units. That don't at all factor in length of albums or songs. In the US, they started to count these towards album sales in late 2014. 1250 song streams on a paid service count as a sale (3750 on a free ad supported service).
If you have an hour long record with 10 tracks, or a 35 minute record with 18 tracks, the latter is getting more 'sales' in a shorter amount of time, even if they get the same number of start to finish album plays.
The Astonishing was actually decently set up for this, with 34 tracks per full listen (with maybe one or two of the shorter interludes not counting).
Distance Over Time on the other hand is 9 tracks per full listen (I legitimately don't know if Viper King counts toward album sales for this, since it's a 'bonus track').
Then you have a zillion Soundcloud rappers on the charts, who have been on there since, well would you look at that, early 2015. Right after this change was made. They were barely selling any records when people had to actually spend money, but they've really shot up with streaming. Most of them tend to have albums with short run times and lots of tracks, which inflates their 'sales' under the new system.
It will be very interesting to see what the actual sales numbers were for D/T.
As an aside, Distance Over Time debuted at #12 here in Canada.
Great explanation, thanks. Puts a whole new perspective on the BB 200.
-
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
This could be why d/t started low. I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.
Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases). I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.
It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.
-
Mericege, welcome to the board! Great first post btw. :tup
Thanks Man .
🤘🤘🤘
-
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
This could be why d/t started low. I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.
Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases). I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.
It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.
That is actually quite good.
Might have been higher if Inside Out got their act together. I still haven't received my box set. Many people still haven't even received their single cd.
-
Don't know if that has been posted before:
https://www.offiziellecharts.de/charts/album
-
There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.
On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
Well, that puts it into a much better perspective and, looking at it like that, it makes much more sense considering that the album charted very high elsewhere. Like erwinrafael said, it can technically be regarded their highest charting album on Billboard then.
Great! And thanks for the helpful explanation! :)
-
So, I've been out of the loop, has the BluRay been released by now?
You mean the one that comes with the collector's edition? If so then yes.
-
I could not disagree more about JlB performance. Now I have been very critical of him over the years. I believe that’s why I’m being “watched”, I’m sure it was some harsh comment about him some years ago. He sounds more natural in this album than any other album since as far back as 6DOIT.
LOL, I think I'm being watched because I made a comment years ago about Petrucci looking silly and needing to shave his beard. It seems John didnt listen to me.
-
Don't know if that has been posted before:
https://www.offiziellecharts.de/charts/album
Yeah, baby, yeah!!! :metal
-
There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.
On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
Well, that puts it into a much better perspective and, looking at it like that, it makes much more sense considering that the album charted very high elsewhere. Like erwinrafael said, it can technically be regarded their highest charting album on Billboard then.
Great! And thanks for the helpful explanation! :)
Can we just take this #5 ranking and compare it to the previous releases? Like it the chart on the previous page. Are we comparing the same things? Is the #6 ranking for BC&SL the same as the #5 for D/T?
-
Anybody know what the phrase "At Wit's End" actually means? Is that "wit" as in mind/sanity/reason?
-
Is there any chance something from this album could be nominated for a Grammy, or would that already have been stated by now? I don't know how that works.
-
Anybody know what the phrase "At Wit's End" actually means? Is that "wit" as in mind/sanity/reason?
"The idiom at wits' end means to be very upset, or at the limits of one's emotional or mental limitations. It's commonly spelled at wit's end, but we say at the end of my wits, not at the end of my wit, so at wits' end makes more sense". (taken from the site grammarist.com)
Or for a more detailed definition :
www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/at-ones-wits-end.html (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/at-ones-wits-end.html)
B.Lee
-
Thanks B.Lee!
-
Thanks B.Lee!
No problem bro! :tup
-
Is there any chance something from this album could be nominated for a Grammy, or would that already have been stated by now? I don't know how that works.
I think there are songs on this album that should easily qualify. Untethered Angel most likely since it is the first track and single.
-
UA wouldn't be my first choice for a nomination since there are many better candidates on the album. Having said that, I think DoT is a fantastic return to form by the band. Yes, we all know how I felt about the last 2 albums. My DT faith has been renewed. After only 4 or 5 spins, this album is a gem. So many tasty things going on that I can't really list at this point. I can definitely see DoT becoming Progressive Metal album of the year.
-
UA wouldn't be my first choice for a nomination since there are many better candidates on the album. Having said that, I think DoT is a fantastic return to form by the band. Yes, we all know how I felt about the last 2 albums. My DT faith has been renewed. After only 4 or 5 spins, this album is a gem. So many tasty things going on that I can't really list at this point. I can definitely see DoT becoming Progressive Metal album of the year.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but were you the poster who dismissed UA when it was released and said something about the band not putting any effort in? I apologize if that was someone else.
Edit: never mind, I just saw your retraction in the UA thread :lol
-
:tup
-
One thing I will criticize is JLB should have recorded the vocals in upstate NY. I also get the feeling a 'same-y-ness' with the choruses on this album, almost seem stock, and don't always feel like they fit with the rest of the song, to my ears. The band could be a little more creative about the chorus, or not worry about verse-chorus structure so much, I mean, they are a Progressive Metal band.
-
^ Yes, one of the many things I enjoyed about TA was some unconventional song structures. I agree they do the big half-time chorus way too often.
-
Yeah, I think the part of this album I like the least was the choruses. They were usually the least interesting part of each song. Dream Theater's verses have always been better than their choruses (and most metal is like this imo), but this album really makes it extreme. After hearing it a couple of times, I realized that choruses in Barstool Warrior are what makes me not like the song as much because of this.
Really, I think one thing I would've liked them to keep over from the musical theater influences they absorbed for The Astonishing. Compare say the chorus for Untethered Angel (one of the better ones on the album imo) to something like How Far I'll Go from Moana or Cell Block Tango from Chicago or even Pinball Wizard from Tommy.
-
UA might be the best chorus on the album, and fits the song very well.
-
So, they hit Nr. 1 on the Swiss album charts! :D Very happy for them!
EDIT: It's actually their highest charting album ever as well! :tup
-
UA while my least favorite song of the album, could get a nomination. Paralyzed could be a radio single with a bit of editing so it stays under 3:30.
-
UA wouldn't be my first choice for a nomination since there are many better candidates on the album. Having said that, I think DoT is a fantastic return to form by the band. Yes, we all know how I felt about the last 2 albums. My DT faith has been renewed. After only 4 or 5 spins, this album is a gem. So many tasty things going on that I can't really list at this point. I can definitely see DoT becoming Progressive Metal album of the year.
Who are you, and what have you done with Dublagent66?? :lol
Joking, of course - I'm glad you're enjoying the album. :tup
-
UA wouldn't be my first choice for a nomination since there are many better candidates on the album. Having said that, I think DoT is a fantastic return to form by the band. Yes, we all know how I felt about the last 2 albums. My DT faith has been renewed. After only 4 or 5 spins, this album is a gem. So many tasty things going on that I can't really list at this point. I can definitely see DoT becoming Progressive Metal album of the year.
Who are you, and what have you done with Dublagent66?? :lol
Joking, of course - I'm glad you're enjoying the album. :tup
Was thinking the same : where is Dublagent66? It's not his guy in any case because when have you seen Dublagent66 liking a DT album as of late?!? :rollin :rollin :rollin Kidding of course : I'm glad your liking for DT was rekindled with the release of D/T.
B.Lee
-
To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof: I really don't get what you are talking about. The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.
-
Yep, they did a really good job with the choruses on this record. And the last album. And the one before that... :lol :lol
-
To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof: I really don't get what you are talking about. The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.
Yes, I don't see where this is coming from : the choruses are fantastic and as Kev said, they have been so for a while, if not, with a few exceptions, for ever. Man, D/T / DT is great!
B.Lee
-
So today on my commute home, which takes the time of around 1 CD-length playlist, I just added Breaking All Illusions to the end of D/T. Voila, I think I now have my favorite DT "album". :lol
-
https://youtu.be/mf4vGLSDVuI
Out Of Reach track by track video
-Marc.
-
They came up with the music in half an hour!
-
The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.
-
To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof: I really don't get what you are talking about. The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.
I just don't have that feeling that there's strong enough choruses on the record. Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses, the best chorus is on Viper King. Now when you mentioned it I think that's the main problem for me on D/T
-
S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more
-
Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses...
And, again, I have no idea what that means or how the choruses in those songs could be considered "weak." Makes no sense to me. I'm not even sure what you mean.
-
S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more
Same here, and I've probably be the most critical of the choruses. S2N's one is one of the best of the album.
-
To the two or three of you complaining about the choruses or lack thereof: I really don't get what you are talking about. The choruses are clearly there, and I think they are fantastic.
I just don't have that feeling that there's strong enough choruses on the record. Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses, the best chorus is on Viper King. Now when you mentioned it I think that's the main problem for me on D/T
I'll give you Paralyzed and PBD, but S2N has a great singable chorus. I dont think PBD's chorus was a priority. That song is all about the instrument. Besides, what they lack in choruses, they make up for in other aspects.
-
The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.
As noted a few pages ago, the Billboard today is not comparable to the Billboard before as it now includes streaming in platforms like Soundcloud and Spotify, which is why there are so many artists there that have been there for more than two years already.
If you look, however, at the chart of actual album sales, which was what was taken into account in the Billboard rankings of their albums pre-Astonishing, D/T ranked number 5, which surpassed the ranking of BC&SL which held the record before at #6.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
Considering that the album was released during the week of the Oscars, and two of the top-selling albums are film soundtracks that got the Oscar boost, I would say that D/T's ranking is impressive.
-
Paralyzed I can see, I guess. It's just very simple, but also kind of fun to just sing "I am paralyzedddd" I dont know, I like it but I guess I can understand how one might think it's weak. But S2N is like the catchiest chorus on the album, it's fantastic. I don't know how one would find it weak at all. I haven't even listened to the song today but I've been singing that chorus in my head all day.
The album is currently 24 on the billbpard 200. Pretty low compared to their previous albums.
As noted a few pages ago, the Billboard today is not comparable to the Billboard before as it now includes streaming in platforms like Soundcloud and Spotify, which is why there are so many artists there that have been there for more than two years already.
If you look, however, at the chart of actual album sales, which was what was taken into account in the Billboard rankings of their albums pre-Astonishing, D/T ranked number 5, which surpassed the ranking of BC&SL which held the record before at #6.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
Considering that the album was released during the week of the Oscars, and two of the top-selling albums are film soundtracks that got the Oscar boost, I would say that D/T's ranking is impressive.
Yea, the 24 is not that interesting. #5 in albums sales is impressive though. I'm very happy for DT.
-
So to confirm that D/T did surpass BC&SL in the comparable rankings, here is the album sales chart that one would generate for the week of Black Clouds' release:
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales/2009-07-11
Yep, #6. So D/T ranking #5 means that this is their highest Billboard position using comparable metrics. :D
Interestingly, if one would generate a similar chart for The Astonishing, it actually hit #6 also.
-
So I'm not sure if this was brought up, but watching the AWE Track-by-track video, they mentioned it was the first song they wrote, which doesn't surprise me because I believe it was John (or maybe MP) who said that whenever they reconvene for a new album, they typically write their longest song first.
-Marc.
-
I guess the exception would be StR, which was the first song written for DT12?
-
I guess the exception would be StR, which was the first song written for DT12?
Was it? Actually, does anyone have a list of which songs were written in which order for every DT album? It would be interesting to know, and I think we know more about that for d/t since the band members have actively said which song was "Song ##" when talking about the album.
-Marc.
-
Yep. John Myung said it.
https://forbassplayersonly.com/interview-john-myung/
-
Right, ITPOE was first for SC
-
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
This could be why d/t started low. I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.
Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases). I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.
It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.
That is actually quite good.
Might have been higher if Inside Out got their act together. I still haven't received my box set. Many people still haven't even received their single cd.
But if you had preordered the album before the week one numbers were reported, then InsideOut’s delays would have no impact on sales numbers. A purchase is a purchase
-
To add to this, hype levels may have been lower because Falling Into Infinity wasn't that good
This could be why d/t started low. I know many of us here appreciate TA but "the masses" didn't seem to, so the pre-release buzz for this album may have been a little lower.
Having said that, maybe this album will have a couple of weeks of staying power (unlike most DT releases). I can't remember the last time a DT album had this much positive buzz post-release.
It is not low. As explained above, the Billboard 200 today is not comparable pre-2015 because it now includes streams. If we go to the chart of actual album sales, it debuted at #5.
That is actually quite good.
Might have been higher if Inside Out got their act together. I still haven't received my box set. Many people still haven't even received their single cd.
But if you had preordered the album before the week one numbers were reported, then InsideOut’s delays would have no impact on sales numbers. A purchase is a purchase
A preorder is not a purchase on Amazon. Your card isn't charged until it ships.
-
Right, ITPOE was first for SC
That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?
-Marc.
-
For sales, it doesn't matter how many purchases/pre-orders were made. The sales counts as how many units the label shifted to retail stores. The retail stores purchased those units. So in theory, yes, the lack of units in amazon (orders being delayed) may have affected the charts. But let's say if Amazon ordered 10k CDs and only got 5k, then the 10k counts towards the charts (not the 5k, even though 5k units were not fulfilled).
-
Paralyzed, FITL, R137 and PBD have all quite weak choruses...
And, again, I have no idea what that means or how the choruses in those songs could be considered "weak." Makes no sense to me. I'm not even sure what you mean.
S2N has a weak chorus? I couldn't disagree more
Yeah I changed S2N to R137, my mistake. S2N has okay chorus. But yes, I just don't feel that I could jam on these choruses. If I compare these choruses to for example choruses like These Walls, Lie, Take The Time, The Bigger Picture or Endless Sacrifice, these D/T choruses are quite toneless, like those are not so uplifting, memorable, banging. Not bad at all but not their best. But it's just my opinion. Hopefully these songs will grow after a few spins.
-
Right, ITPOE was first for SC
That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?
-Marc.
Thought I read somewhere that ANTR was first for BC&SL but I could be wrong.
-
I was previously on the fence about getting tickets to see them in NJ next month since it's on a work night for me... after listening to this album, it was a no brainer and I bought tickets today :metal
-
I don't get this "chorus" thing. Dream Theater isn't a chorus band. They have some but a lot of their best tracks aren't built around the chorus. If I want a sing along, memorable chorus I'll listen to Iron Maiden. I listen to Dream Theater for the instrumentation and often like the verses, or other non chorus vocal lines, more than the chorus. I would be fine with no chorus in a whole Dream Theater album. Where is the chorus in Metropolis anyway?
OK, off to listen to Number of the Beast - I need a good chorus.
-
I don't get this "chorus" thing. Dream Theater isn't a chorus band. They have some but a lot of their best tracks aren't built around the chorus. If I want a sing along, memorable chorus I'll listen to Iron Maiden. I listen to Dream Theater for the instrumentation and often like the verses, or other non chorus vocal lines, more than the chorus. I would be fine with no chorus in a whole Dream Theater album. Where is the chorus in Metropolis anyway?
This. If people want a catchy, poppy chorus, just go listen to Nightwish or something :lol
Having said that, I have no issues with the choruses in D/T. UA, FITL, BW and specially S2N have great choruses and have had these stuck in my head for days without even listening to the songs that much (don't want to burn out the album too soon, it's too good).
-
Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.
Has the band ever made this claim?
-
Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.
Has the band ever made this claim?
Of course not but there's been a few comments in this thread about a lack of memorable choruses.
-
This album sounds so inspired. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when they were writing it. They had to be giddy jamming these riffs into the songs they turned out to be. Everyone is firing on all cylinders. The drum sound is amazing and full of life compared to the other Mangini albums. I cannot get enough. Not a bad song on the album.
My favorites as of right now are Barstool Warrior, At Wits End and Out of Reach for the emotion. I love the idea and groove of Room 137 and S2N. PBD is a monster instrumentally. The released songs are really good but are my least favorites. Viper King is a great jam with the DP/VH vibe and the Full Bug like guitar riff. Bravo DT , you knocked it out of the park with this one.
-
Honestly, JP may really be the MVP on all DT albums, but, man, MM is on fire on D/T! So, this is how he sounds when he has a real say in what he does? OK, gimme that every day! :metal
B.Lee
-
I think the issues arises when the majority of tracks on DoT tout more conventional verse-chorus-verse structures, but fall short when the vocal melodies on display are lackluster to the ears. They lack the catchy-ness of DT's more contemporary influenced sounds (see: Octavarium), and the powerful deliveries of their more emotionally charged songs (see: Scenes From a Memory).
-
I think the issues arises when the majority of tracks on DoT tout more conventional verse-chorus-verse structures, but fall short when the vocal melodies on display are lackluster to the ears. They lack the catchy-ness of DT's more contemporary influenced sounds (see: Octavarium), and the powerful deliveries of their more emotionally charged songs (see: Scenes From a Memory).
Music is extraordinary, because to me, the vocal melodies are the perfect fit for the songs on D/T. Whether it's to everyone's taste is another thing.
B.Lee
-
Of course. I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. I can very well see how it works for others where it doesn't work much for me. Keeping in mind that I actually do enjoy some of the choruses on the record, just not as much compared to some of the band's greats.
-
About the choruses.... I don't want to be the negative guy and keep in mind that as I wrote some pages ago I actually like the album, and I don't think there's a single bad song on it, but the point is not that DT had or should have choruses like "RUN TO THE HIIILS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVEEEES" or "EEEEXIT LIIIGHT, ENTER NIIIGHT".
Still, they always had good choruses, which were the clear climaxes of the song no matter their intensity; without going too far back in time, I dare anyone to listen for the first time to On the Back of Angels or The Looking Glass and not realize that their choruses were, well, the choruses (Just to not play it too easy with bombastic stuff like Bridges in the Sky or Behind the Veil).
Never with a DT album before I went through more than one song on the same album expecting the song to climax into a chorus, only to realize later that the chorus was what sounded like a bridge. This happened with Fall into the Light and Room 137 mostly, I'd count also Barstool Warrior in the category but by now I've come to feel the chorus more as a chorus and not something that, after the second repetition, would have went into something even more grandiose (see Bridges in the Sky for example).
Again, I like the album, and not every song has to have the same structure nor have the same intensity, it's just that no matter the style of the song, the intensity, the vibe, never before I had so many "wait, where's the chorus?" moments, not even on the first listenings when the albums were new. If you listen to Fall into the Light and to you the "Too much love will set you free" section stands out the same way a "I'm running from the enemy inside" or "Lost not forgotten, reigning against the odds" does, good for you, but to me it took forever to get used to them.
It's hard to explain, and probably if I were musically educated I could point out to more precise stuff, it's just like the songs prepare you for something that should happen.... but it actually doesn't. I guess it's something subjective, and that there other cases in the discography when to me a song would feel just complete but someone would point "I totally expected them to do something in this part of that song but they didn't".
-
Hmmmm...I think Room 137 is not designed to have the chorus as the climax. It's climax is the psychedelia section.
I already stopped looking for a chorus in DT songs ever since I heard Metropolis Pt. 1. :lol
-
Oh well, for sure not every song has to be a chorus, nor the chorus has to be the most standout part of the song. I was just pointing out how, since after all all the songs of the new album do have a chorus, especially during the first listenings they didn't even look like that, that's all.
-
Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.
Has the band ever made this claim?
Of course not but there's been a few comments in this thread about a lack of memorable choruses.
They may not be a chorus band, but one of their best features is putting catchy vocal melodies into very technical music, it's what makes them so appealing to a bigger audience than your typical prog metal band IMO.
-
^ Totally agree. DT, for me, have got the "secret sauce" of technicality combined with accessibility.
Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.
-
Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.
Same here.
-
Haken does get it right sometimes....1985, Good Doctor, Veil etc.
-
Yes, but the afore mentioned bands don't have JP.
B.Lee
-
^ Totally agree. DT, for me, have got the "secret sauce" of technicality combined with accessibility.
Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.
Yes something is always missing with any other band. Sometimes when I am trying to give a new band a fair shake in my head, I visualize DT playing the song.
-
Mr Kevin James LaBrie, the secret sauce.
-
Mr Kevin James LaBrie, the secret sauce.
And that as well.
-
My main gripe was that I don't think some of the choruses 'fit' the rest of the song they are a part of, or the transition to the chorus could have been better/less clunky. Viper King stands out, Barstool Warrior, and perhaps S2N.
-
After perusing through many of the posts, it looks like I am in the minority on this album. I've only listened to it three times so I will see if it grows on me but this is the first album that I remember where I can't recall a single song really catching me.
On my third time through, I was trying to listen closely to figure out why this was the case. I think this is the strongest work by MM and I also really like the work JR has done on the tracks. The guitar tracks by JP are strong but I have to admit I have to listen to the bass lines closer on my next listen. So, if I think the instrumentals are strong, I am thinking what is the problem.
This leads me to focus on the vocals. To me, they just sound way too processed and they seem to be sung in a very similar fashion from one song to another. I wish I had a musical background to better explain what I mean but when I go back to listen to DT's older albums, JLB sings in a more expansive way and his voice doesn't sound so processed. I've noticed this happening more and more through the last 3 albums and it really hit me on this one. Maybe its because JLB doesn't have the vocal range anymore or it's the way his vocals are being engineered but it isn't working for me so far on this one. Hopefully this disc will grow on me, but if not it is destined for being one of my lowest ranked DT albums.
-
I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time! :metal
-
I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time! :metal
I initially thought it was weak, but the song has grown on me like crazy. Can’t get it out of my head!
-
I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time! :metal
I initially thought it was weak, but the song has grown on me like crazy. Can’t get it out of my head!
Same here :loser:
-
So... my copy finally came and I had a good spell in the car yesterday to listen to it through. I will be giving it additional spins, but I made a very grave mistake after the first listen. I listened to "The Great Adventure" (or at least the first disk of that album, and about three songs on disk two).
It provided some really clear contrast.
Dream Theater was always a top tier band for me, up until September of 2010, and recently (within the last week or so) I was burning my CDs (and even DVD audio) to my network drive. Really blown away by revisiting some old favorites, and even had a new perspective on some of them (About To Crash comes to mind). This album is certainly a step in the right direction after The Astonishing (which didn't click for me) and generally I liked this. I loved Jordan and James. But there are a couple not minor criticisms: One, Mangini. I get it; monster, technical wizard, etc. etc. It's just not the same, man. That bass drum is so... loud, for lack of a better word, it just overpowers, and again, I'm always sort of left with a clinical admiration, but no goosebumps. It just seems so .... jarring to me. There are too many moments like the intro to Pale Blue Dot where you can almost hear him counting, and not enough like Out Of Reach where the song guides the players, and not the other way around.
Two, Petrucci. Sho'nuff, he plays his ass off, and technique wise, he runs the gamut from blistering unison lines to some very Gilmour-esque solos (might be one of his best, from the solo perspective). But the rhythm sound is just so predictable. He just keeps going to that really compressed, really overdriven growly bass sound and it's boring. The start of Paralyzed. The start of Room 137. The verse of Pale Blue Dot. I want some of that Petrucci who was channeling Alex Lifeson on "Learning To Live" or better yet, "About To Crash". There was some of that on DT12 (The Looking Glass, I think it was) and a little here - the intro to Barstool Warrior - but not enough for my taste, at least not in comparison to the heavy, growling rhythm that dominates this album.
Three, melodies; admittedly, I'm a melody guy. I don't need "choruses" per se, but I do need those moments like "Voices" and the "without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" section of Fatal Tragedy, where the melody sticks in my head and informs the music that comes after it. No doubt, compositionally, DT are an exceptional band, but for my taste, there need to be more moments like in Barstool Warrior: "Call it bad luck... call it fate... Call it stuck here the rest of my days..." (The prechorus in Viper King is close). I don't know if that is a conscious choice on their part, or a swing and a miss in terms of intent.
End of the day: very good, not great, so far. Goosebump moments: zero, so far.
Contrast this to the new Neal Morse album. I had two goosebump moments in the first overture! Excellent mix of vocalists to create a real sonic tapestry. I am braced for the inevitable "Mike has drummed this album four times in the last five years" but it works. He is mixed well, in the context of the other members, and it seems as if all occupy their own space in the sonic field. There is some typically strong playing from Mike, but it's never jarring and never works against the music. Lyrically it's... ah who cares. I don't really listen to this (or DT) for the lyrics, but the melodies... I can't sing one track off the DT yet other than that chorus from Barstool Warrior (probably my favorite song on the record so far) but I have been singing "I Got To Run" for most of the day (and if I wasn't it would be one of "Venture In Black" or "Hey Ho Let's Go", as I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins).
I don't know if it as simple as the arranging skills of Portnoy, though I think not, because many of the criticisms I have of Dream Theater apply to Sons of Apollo. That could be the "compartmentalizing" that Mike does ('this is my trad prog album, this is my prog metal album, this is my..."), but I would love to hear this band playing the D/T material (meaning, hearing D/T using TGA setups/sounds) and I think it would make a world of difference. Goosebump moments: About six, so far.
I'll give both albums several more listens, and I'm going to see DT live (but passing on Neal Morse this time around), but these were my initial impressions.
-
We get it, Stadler. If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you.
But if we're going to compare the two albums you did, I'll just say this: I got TGA early so I could review it, and I listened to it a bunch. It is no secret from my review how much I love that album. I was convinced it would likely be my album of the year, and that it would be a runaway. As much as I love DT, I didn't think d/twould even be close, given the short running time.
Now, having listened to d/t a bunch, it is VERY close, and I fell like d/t will likely take it. PLENTY of goosebumps moments--moreso than most DT albums in recent history. And aside from that, just good quality songwriting all the way around. I have said this repeatedly throughout the Mangini era, but the consistency of this album, song-by-song, is incredible. As much as I like TGA, I cannot say that same thing. It's hard to rank them against each other. Are there more minutes of music that I like better on TGA? Maybe. And I'm generally a "more is more" kind of guy when it comes to ranking albums. (I rank Six Degrees ahead of A Change of Seasons, because the overall quality is equal, and while Six Degrees may have a few things I don't care for, when it comes to the things I DO care for, there's just MORE of it) But, again, the quality of d/t is just SO consistent. Whether I ultimately come down on the side of choosing d/t or not, the fact that such a short album with such short songs could even compete with TGA, much less possibly edge it out, speaks volumes to the quality.
-
Man o' man Stadler! :lol
I can't disagree more about JP's rhythm guitar tone, I think it may be his best ever. If your looking for Alex Lifeson tone or technique, didn't you listen to S2N?
Btw, I've been listening to TGA Alot too, fantastic album! :tup
I highly recommend seeing the Neal Morse Band on this tour!
-
We get it, Stadler. If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
-
UPDATE - Amazon now says I will get my boxed set tomorrow.
At this point, I preordered so late that I’m just relieved that I’m getting one.
-
S2N sounds like a Portnoy-era song, might as well be on Systematic Chaos or something, especially the moment from 1:30 - 1:50.
-
I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".
For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.
And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.
-
S2N sounds like a Portnoy-era song, might as well be on Systematic Chaos or something, especially the moment from 1:30 - 1:50.
I know what you mean, but I think it's a cool section. And I really love the following bit as well - too bad it leads to what I consider one of the low points of the album (2:10-2:22). From groovy and driving with a good flow to that stiff non-groove that just feels unnecessary - wish they'd written a direct transition to the chorus there.
-
I ordered it and after a couple of days Amazon emailed me to say that m whole package was damaged and I would get a refund. I hurried onto the online webs and re-ordered. Then the original order showed up, and it I can't cancel the other so I guess I'll have a copy to give away.
It's a great album. I am still just finding my way around it.
-
I don't get the chorus issue either.... I don't like the chorus in These Walls, Lost not forgotten, blind faith, eternal sacrifice etc... and I am loving this album.
They definitely have some great choruses over the years( Take the Time, Pull Me Under, Voices) but it's not really their strong suit anyways IMO.
Not having a distinguishable chorus make it sound proggier which I like.
-
I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".
For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.
And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.
To me, all four Mangini-era albums have been mid-tier, but there is no shame in that. I don't expect them to ever equal or top Awake, Scenes, I&W and 6DOIT, so 5th place through 9th (or 10th, or 11th) is mid-tier for me. I think all four Mangini albums are better than all four albums they did from 2003-2009, although I do like Train of Thought a lot more than I used to, and a recent listen of Octavarium was quite nice.
-
Personally I think the album gets better and better every time I hear it.
Also, I agree that always staying melodic and poppy helps distinguish over other prog metal bands but not necessarily because of their choruses.
I find a ton of distinguishable moments and distinct sounds on this album.
Best album since SDOIT IMO.
-
Here's a silly question.
Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?
I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!
There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!
-
Here's a silly question.
Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?
I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!
There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!
Yes, JP just explained this in a recent interview. Don’t have the link.
-
I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".
For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.
And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.
The second half of AWE doesn’t stand out to you? Ok.
-
I still love this album. Been checking out other purchases and new releases (Avantasia, Queensryche, I Flames, Starbreaker) but I find myself coming back to D/T after each one and loving it every single time.
-
Here's a silly question.
Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?
I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!
There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!
He enjoyed to play with the velocity formula, D
T
how it resembled Dream Theater's initials in a minimalist, stripped down way. The idea can be seen in the complementary artwork...
-
DT foes a very different thing with a Beatles-esque like psychedelia section that is so unlike them, and then people say I don't remember anything from Room 137.
-
Honestly, JP may really be the MVP on all DT albums, but, man, MM is on fire on D/T! So, this is how he sounds when he has a real say in what he does? OK, gimme that every day! :metal
B.Lee
Mangini is definitely my pick for MVP on DoT. Really amazing showcase for him. You can tell he puts a lot of thought into his parts and isn't just winging it. I'm not a drummer, but I hope the drummers here can appreciate what he's doing in. I am a guitar player and JP didn't really do anything new or exciting here, and he doesn't have to, he's done plenty, but everything he did do on DoT is solid.
I also think DoT is my favourite sounding DT album in probably ever. I just love it.
-
We get it, Stadler. If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you.
I'm not sure that's really fair. There's plenty of music with intellectual depth that I like. For every Kiss album in my collection there's a Miles Davis or a Fish or Steely Dan or Robbie Robertson. As far as Mike goes, I like Neal, I like Transatlantic, I like Flying Colors, but can take or leave The Winery Dogs, and leave Metal Allegiance and A-Mob. Just because Mike is on it, doesn't make it gold. That's kind of the point. There's no set rules and there's no roadmap. I just spent the last two weeks re-acquainting myself with what I love about DT, and it's different to me in those terms, and in being different, it resonates less. I'm not comparing Dream Theater to Kiss, I'm comparing it to itself, and, in this particular case, using another album "in the family" to illustrate my point. Nothing more nothing less.
But if we're going to compare the two albums you did, I'll just say this: I got TGA early so I could review it, and I listened to it a bunch. It is no secret from my review how much I love that album. I was convinced it would likely be my album of the year, and that it would be a runaway. As much as I love DT, I didn't think d/twould even be close, given the short running time.
Now, having listened to d/t a bunch, it is VERY close, and I fell like d/t will likely take it. PLENTY of goosebumps moments--moreso than most DT albums in recent history. And aside from that, just good quality songwriting all the way around. I have said this repeatedly throughout the Mangini era, but the consistency of this album, song-by-song, is incredible. As much as I like TGA, I cannot say that same thing. It's hard to rank them against each other. Are there more minutes of music that I like better on TGA? Maybe. And I'm generally a "more is more" kind of guy when it comes to ranking albums. (I rank Six Degrees ahead of A Change of Seasons, because the overall quality is equal, and while Six Degrees may have a few things I don't care for, when it comes to the things I DO care for, there's just MORE of it) But, again, the quality of d/t is just SO consistent. Whether I ultimately come down on the side of choosing d/t or not, the fact that such a short album with such short songs could even compete with TGA, much less possibly edge it out, speaks volumes to the quality.
I won't argue with consistent. Not one bit. It's certainly not one of those albums where I love songs 1, 2, 4, 7, and 9, and want to skip 3, 5, 6, and 8. As for the goosebumps, well, I can't intellectualize that. It kind of is what it is, and I don't usually fight it. Not to say that it never comes later (it does; Marillion's "Afraid Of Sunlight" took years) and I will undoubtedly give it more listens before all is said and done.
-
So... my copy finally came and I had a good spell in the car yesterday to listen to it through. I will be giving it additional spins, but I made a very grave mistake after the first listen. I listened to "The Great Adventure" (or at least the first disk of that album, and about three songs on disk two).
It provided some really clear contrast.
Dream Theater was always a top tier band for me, up until September of 2010, and recently (within the last week or so) I was burning my CDs (and even DVD audio) to my network drive. Really blown away by revisiting some old favorites, and even had a new perspective on some of them (About To Crash comes to mind). This album is certainly a step in the right direction after The Astonishing (which didn't click for me) and generally I liked this. I loved Jordan and James. But there are a couple not minor criticisms: One, Mangini. I get it; monster, technical wizard, etc. etc. It's just not the same, man. That bass drum is so... loud, for lack of a better word, it just overpowers, and again, I'm always sort of left with a clinical admiration, but no goosebumps. It just seems so .... jarring to me. There are too many moments like the intro to Pale Blue Dot where you can almost hear him counting, and not enough like Out Of Reach where the song guides the players, and not the other way around.
Two, Petrucci. Sho'nuff, he plays his ass off, and technique wise, he runs the gamut from blistering unison lines to some very Gilmour-esque solos (might be one of his best, from the solo perspective). But the rhythm sound is just so predictable. He just keeps going to that really compressed, really overdriven growly bass sound and it's boring. The start of Paralyzed. The start of Room 137. The verse of Pale Blue Dot. I want some of that Petrucci who was channeling Alex Lifeson on "Learning To Live" or better yet, "About To Crash". There was some of that on DT12 (The Looking Glass, I think it was) and a little here - the intro to Barstool Warrior - but not enough for my taste, at least not in comparison to the heavy, growling rhythm that dominates this album.
Three, melodies; admittedly, I'm a melody guy. I don't need "choruses" per se, but I do need those moments like "Voices" and the "without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" section of Fatal Tragedy, where the melody sticks in my head and informs the music that comes after it. No doubt, compositionally, DT are an exceptional band, but for my taste, there need to be more moments like in Barstool Warrior: "Call it bad luck... call it fate... Call it stuck here the rest of my days..." (The prechorus in Viper King is close). I don't know if that is a conscious choice on their part, or a swing and a miss in terms of intent.
End of the day: very good, not great, so far. Goosebump moments: zero, so far.
Contrast this to the new Neal Morse album. I had two goosebump moments in the first overture! Excellent mix of vocalists to create a real sonic tapestry. I am braced for the inevitable "Mike has drummed this album four times in the last five years" but it works. He is mixed well, in the context of the other members, and it seems as if all occupy their own space in the sonic field. There is some typically strong playing from Mike, but it's never jarring and never works against the music. Lyrically it's... ah who cares. I don't really listen to this (or DT) for the lyrics, but the melodies... I can't sing one track off the DT yet other than that chorus from Barstool Warrior (probably my favorite song on the record so far) but I have been singing "I Got To Run" for most of the day (and if I wasn't it would be one of "Venture In Black" or "Hey Ho Let's Go", as I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins).
I don't know if it as simple as the arranging skills of Portnoy, though I think not, because many of the criticisms I have of Dream Theater apply to Sons of Apollo. That could be the "compartmentalizing" that Mike does ('this is my trad prog album, this is my prog metal album, this is my..."), but I would love to hear this band playing the D/T material (meaning, hearing D/T using TGA setups/sounds) and I think it would make a world of difference. Goosebump moments: About six, so far.
I'll give both albums several more listens, and I'm going to see DT live (but passing on Neal Morse this time around), but these were my initial impressions.
Please don’t give Mike Portnoy credit for how incredible the Neal Morse stuff sounds, as great a drummer as he undoubtedly is. NM was writing incredible songs and melodies long before he had even heard of Mike Portnoy. Mike’s legendary “arranging skills” were not able to save the countless projects he’s started since leaving DT from being bang average or worse (Adrenaline Mob, I’m looking at you). Put simply Mike’s stuff only sounds good when he aligns himself with great writers, whether that be Neal Morse and his endless supply of incredible melodies or Petrucci with the more technical, melodic metal side.
-
Exactly.
As for the new DT vs the new NMB, while I am as big a fan of Neal and the Neal Morse Band as anybody here, I am taking Distance over Time over The Great Adventure. The Great Adventure is a good record, but Distance over Time is just better to my ears. I joked to a few people that after Haken and NMB gave us good but underwhelming albums this winter, it was up to Dream Theater to save the prog season...and they did. :metal :metal
-
How can I listen to the Neal morse album? On Apple Music only a few songs seem to be available and I can’t seem to find it on YouTube in its entirety
-
How can I listen to the Neal morse album? On Apple Music only a few songs seem to be available and I can’t seem to find it on YouTube in its entirety
Buy it.
-
The hard copy is the only way to listen?
-
It is available on iTunes as well. I just looked.
-
got it thanks!
-
Exactly.
As for the new DT vs the new NMB, while I am as big a fan of Neal and the Neal Morse Band as anybody here, I am taking Distance over Time over The Great Adventure. The Great Adventure is a good record, but Distance over Time is just better to my ears. I joked to a few people that after Haken and NMB gave us good but underwhelming albums this winter, it was up to Dream Theater to save the prog season...and they did. :metal :metal
I won't disagree, but I think I only would feel that way because of how TGA and d/t are follow-ups of two very different albums that seemed to be on polar ends of how they were received three years ago. On the DT hand, The Astonishing was received with mix reception and has garnered less-than-favorable views since release, where as on the NMB hand, The Similitude Of A Dream was almost universally praised by Neal-fans and prog-fans alike, and it still holds up today.
Following TSOAD was always going to be a tough battle, and for many TGA falls just short of TSOAD, and though many still seem to enjoy it as much, they still hold TSOAD above it. With The Astonishing, many fans' expectations were lowered to the point that anything the band could do might not be worse than TA, so when d/t came out blazing, many fans found renewed faith in the band. Personally speaking, I hadn't really listened to Dream Theater in the last couple of years - TA sort of ruined the momentum of the band for me, so I hadn't really cycled them through my listening as the months and years went by, but d/t has renewed my interest in listening to my second favorite band again! Distance Over Time has been one of their best albums in years, and many fans who have distanced themselves from the band have come back and embraced the new album, which is pretty amazing.
As for where I'm going with all of this, I'd say that by comparison, d/t had a lot going for it where as TGA had a lot to live up to, so fans of both might see d/t as a better album because it surpassed expectations where as TGA might have barely reached them.
As for MP's part in the NMB, he definitely still has a huge hand in arranging and re-arranging the various members' demos, but in the case of TGA, it's a bit more unclear how much his arranging survived the initial sessions, since Neal pretty much chopped up the album and rearranged it into the sequel to TSOAD that we now know. The Making Of documentary wasn't very clear on how much work survived Neal's slices and dices before they recorded the final album, but Mike definitely keeps track of arranging demos and jams, which has always been a strength of his in many of his bands. He has a very "big picture" mentality that helps see an album come together, where as Neal is very song oriented and has strong melodic senses that really propel the individual songs to catchy heights. I haven't spun TGA in awhile, but I remember enjoying a LOT of the individual songs and choruses, Neal is very good at that. With d/t, I've been having a harder time latching on to vocal melodies, but they are slowly settling in as I listen to the album more and more. It's definitely a slow-burn kind of album for me.
-Marc.
-
How can I listen to the Neal morse album? On Apple Music only a few songs seem to be available and I can’t seem to find it on YouTube in its entirety
Buy it.
👏bravo bravo!!!
-
I loved The Astonishing to bits and have Train of Thought much lower in the discography so I knew that Distance Over Time would probably not have the same staying power as TA.
It did not help either that I got O.R.k Ramagehead at the same time. That is an album I find myself wanting to listen to D/T not so much.
I mean it's good.... Dream Theater are always good to me, but it's not great.
I also don't really remember anything from the album after a couple of listens.... it's just there. A few awesome spots but not one awesome song to me.
As for comparisons to The Neal Morse Bands The Great Adventure.... loved TSOAD and hold TGA almost as high but much, much higher than D/T.
-
How can I listen to the Neal morse album? On Apple Music only a few songs seem to be available and I can’t seem to find it on YouTube in its entirety
Neal has actually started his own streaming service with all his stuff on it. Can’t remember the name off the top of my head but it won’t be hard to find out.
TGA is another incredible album in a long line of incredible albums stretching back to Spock’s Beard. Mike’s drumming is great on the album as it always is. As others have said, it’s the same box of tricks he’s used for years but it works and sometimes familiarity is not a bad thing. I just took umbridge at the suggestion or maybe hint that he was in some way responsible for Neal Morse having more memorable and effective melodies when he is likely to have had little or no involvement in coming up with them. Neal has been putting similar stuff out since the beginning of Spock’s Beard when NDV was on drums. His stuff though is not metal and is therefore very different to Dream Theater. I think most DT fans would have an even bigger meltdown than they did over The Astonishing if they did an album with a similar production to NMB.
I do agree with Stadler in that I prefer JP in Alex Lifeson mode to modern sludgy metal mode but there is a decent mix of the two here. The album is excellent and growing all the time. I am away on holiday so haven’t had a chance to sit down with the physical album and listen along with the lyrics and I think that’s hampered me a bit as I kept losing concentration and drifting off in the songs. It took me nearly two weeks to finally get through Pake Blue Dot without drifting off and Im now beginning to appreciate that song a lot more. There’s no song I skip at the moment but Im not sure how long FITL will stay in rotation. I’ve also deleted Viper King from my iTunes version as it just doesn’t fit for me. It will be on the cd when I finally get home in two weeks to get my art book edition but not my phone.
-
Continuing this side-discussion, I never really liked Transatlatntic and Neal Morse. Probably haven't heard more than 3 songs from him over the years. I checked out some songs from TGA and I really liked I Got To Run and Welcome To The World. I might go back and check his discography and even relisten to TA as my musical tastes have expanded since then.
-
I think his streaming thing is called waterfall streaming or something like that. As far as I am aware, all his stuff is on there including Transatlantic so this may be a cost effective way of investigating his discography further.
-
I just commented in the Neal Morse thread that it's a tie game between D/T and TGA for me, but if we add Haken to the equation, Vector is the winner. I know, I'm surprised too.
-
I just commented in the Neal Morse thread that it's a tie game between D/T and TGA for me, but if we add Haken to the equation, Vector is the winner. I know, I'm surprised too.
Wow really?? I guess I'll have to order Vector, the only Haken album I own is The Mountian. I like it, but not near as much as d/t or TGA..
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk&t=311s
-
I loved The Astonishing to bits and have Train of Thought much lower in the discography so I knew that Distance Over Time would probably not have the same staying power as TA.
It did not help either that I got O.R.k Ramagehead at the same time. That is an album I find myself wanting to listen to D/T not so much.
I mean it's good.... Dream Theater are always good to me, but it's not great.
I also don't really remember anything from the album after a couple of listens.... it's just there. A few awesome spots but not one awesome song to me.
As for comparisons to The Neal Morse Bands The Great Adventure.... loved TSOAD and hold TGA almost as high but much, much higher than D/T.
I don't get this post... what does TOT have to do with D/T? I don't see any of that stale NU metal sound on D/T.
I am someone who gravitates towards the 90's DT and prog sound VS the modern metal sound and I am loving this new album. I also loved TA.
Did you like Awake? I think that would be a better judge IMO.
D/T has SOOO many warm emotional melodic moments to accompany the heavy.... it reminds me more of classic DT than TOT. The only time I get a TOT or SC vibe is the chorus of Pale Blue Dot but even that has grown on me.
Barstool Warrior, At Wits End, Out of Reach, Viper King, I can't even find an ounce of modern metal sound.
-
The intro to At Wits End feels very modern metal to me. Actually a lot of this album sounds like modern metal compared to previous DT albums, I think that's why I like it so much, feels like a more fresh metal style for DT (Untethered Angel sounds more like your typical DT metal song and not so modern).
And wtf with the nu metal reference, I can't think of anything DT have done that would be nu metal or similar.
The references to ToT are likely due to the heaviness of that album and DoT
-
I just commented in the Neal Morse thread that it's a tie game between D/T and TGA for me, but if we add Haken to the equation, Vector is the winner. I know, I'm surprised too.
Wow really?? I guess I'll have to order Vector, the only Haken album I own is The Mountian. I like it, but not near as much as d/t or TGA..
Vector is the worst Haken album.
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk
Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.
Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!
-Marc.
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk
Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.
Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!
-Marc.
Yeah, great video, the best in terms of insights on the songwriting.
-
The intro to At Wits End feels very modern metal to me. Actually a lot of this album sounds like modern metal compared to previous DT albums, I think that's why I like it so much, feels like a more fresh metal style for DT (Untethered Angel sounds more like your typical DT metal song and not so modern).
And wtf with the nu metal reference, I can't think of anything DT have done that would be nu metal or similar.
The references to ToT are likely due to the heaviness of that album and DoT
TOT was definitely influenced by NU metal.... same time as disturbed and all that junk and the production is not warm at all. It's emotionless. I still like the album because I think it's well written but it's not my favorite DT style at all.
FITL has a very retro metal metallica feel, I don't think AWE sounds like modern metal at all..... the versus actually remind me of I&W a little.
It's funny because to me UA is the one that sounds the most like modern DT metal to me which is why it's my least favorite song on the album (still good though).
Room 137 reminds me of something that would be on an 80's Alice Cooper album.
S2N is like a mix of SDOIT/FII with maybe a little TOT sprinkled in.
To me production is so key and this album doesn't sound anything like TOT or SC to me.
-
Vector is the worst Haken album.
Agreed, and not nearly as good as Distance over Time or The Great Adventure.
-
Plus it was released in October, so it's technically a 2018 album ;)
-
D/T has SOOO many warm emotional melodic moments to accompany the heavy....
This is perhaps the most concise description of the overall feel of d/t. I LOVE this quote! Perfect!
TOT was definitely influenced by NU metal....
And on the other hand, this completely confuses me. I have no idea how anyone could hear nu metal in TOT. And I'm not slamming nu metal at all (although it isn't a part of the metal genre I have ever gravitated toward). But I have never heard any such influences. At all.
Vector is the worst Haken album.
Agreed, and not nearly as good as Distance over Time or The Great Adventure.
Agreed. I listened to Vector so many times trying to latch onto something positive. But I just came away from it feeling like it was awful. Sorry, Haken fans. It just didn't work for me.
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk
Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.
Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!
-Marc.
Is that why? I was wondering if someone was in my you tube account and started watching it. Thanks for saying that.
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk
Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.
Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!
-Marc.
Is that why? I was wondering if someone was in my you tube account and started watching it. Thanks for saying that.
Yes. They must have copied the link from their desktop and didn't click-off the "From Current Time" option, because the link ends with "&t=311s", denoting the timestamp at which the video will start playing, in this case, 311 seconds (5:11) into the video.
-Marc.
-
D/T has SOOO many warm emotional melodic moments to accompany the heavy....
This is perhaps the most concise description of the overall feel of d/t. I LOVE this quote! Perfect!
TOT was definitely influenced by NU metal....
And on the other hand, this completely confuses me. I have no idea how anyone could hear nu metal in TOT. And I'm not slamming nu metal at all (although it isn't a part of the metal genre I have ever gravitated toward). But I have never heard any such influences. At all.
Vector is the worst Haken album.
Agreed, and not nearly as good as Distance over Time or The Great Adventure.
Agreed. I listened to Vector so many times trying to latch onto something positive. But I just came away from it feeling like it was awful. Sorry, Haken fans. It just didn't work for me.
ha so I was 1/2 :). Maybe NU metal is the wrong description.... it was just a very modern metal sound at the time. It did not have the hair metal vibe AT ALL. It did have some Metallica but the production was not 80's or 90's sounding at all.
So I guess the production of it just sounded modern to me and that is right when NU metal was popular. Even the melodic sections like the versus of Eternal Sacrifice don't have a warmth to them that D/T production has.
I am passionate about music but incredibly laymens on engineering/mastering etc... so it's tough for me to articulate sometimes. Hopefully the above made sense.
-
Yeah, I think I'm following you.
-
I think I've settled down a bit on the new album. While it is solid, maybe the best Mangini era album, probably at least tied with ADTOE, it is still middle of the road for DT. Yes, they're 14 albums in, over 30+ years, but after two stale/bloated albums this one had to be great. In light of that, looking back at the last 4 albums, I can't help but feel something is missing, like taking Jon Fishman out of Phish, or Lars out of Metallica, or even a non-founding member like Neil Peart out of Rush, etc... you can't imagine it any other way, I'm not even the biggest fan of Rush's later material but I couldn't imagine them without Peart. Yes, I like DOT, but after almost 2 weeks with the album, I'm already over it. Same thing with the last 3 albums, maybe a little more time with ADTOE. I'm still going to revisit these albums, of course, I just mean the lust is over and I'm back to wishing MP was back. Even with the later albums with MP I'd still gush over them for months, especially Black Clouds. I'd gladly have DT take a chance with a new singer if it meant MP came back. I'm over the 'JLB is the voice of the band' narrative. I'm fine listening to Ozzy or Dio, Paul or Bruce, Roth or Hagar, etc... being as that's what seems to be the issue of MP ever coming back. I'm not even knocking Mike Mangini, he's a fine drummer, I might not be into his style as much as many other drummers out there metal or otherwise, but he does a fine job with the material he's given, but I miss the groove in DT's music that I don't think MM has. I've said elsewhere, MM is a metal drummer first, and I'm not a fan of the 'sound' of the drums on any of the albums he's been on, even DOT.
tl;dr I think the band shines more when there is pressure to put on a good album (ADTOE, DOT) but if those 2 albums are as good as it's going to get, well I guess that makes me a semi-casual DT fan, sad to say. If they changed their name after MP left I probably wouldn't be as critical. To me, MP is the DT drummer like Peart is the Rush drummer, and these last 4 albums have been a side project under the DT banner.
Vector is the worst Haken album.
Have to agree with this. While there were flashes of brilliance, I didn't think a lot of it was very good (haven't listened to it since the time it came out)
-
I think the 7 string chugging riffs is what might compel some to associate it with nu-metal, but as a whole, nothing about "Train of Thought" resembles nu-metal to me. Not in the least.
The intro to At Wits End feels very modern metal to me. Actually a lot of this album sounds like modern metal compared to previous DT albums, I think that's why I like it so much, feels like a more fresh metal style
I agree. It's why I've been so drawn to this album, as well. They desperately needed to make this transition, and I'm so glad they did. I know a lot of people who were beginning to think of them as a nostalgia act.
-
I think the more contemporary metal influences on ToT mostly show up in some tracks where JLB is rapping over more percussive grooves, like on TDS or HTF. Obviously I wouldn't call the album nu metal by any stretch, but the connection is there in small bits and pieces.
-
CRAP! I thought I had pre-ordered the boxed set through Amazon, but apparently I pre-ordered the vinyl only.
Really disappointed, but I *did* want the vinyl anyway. Just thought I would be getting it as a part of the whole boxed set package, and now I only have it as a stand-alone. Really pissed at myself for not just pre-ordering from the official website before they sold out. >:( :censored
-
Amazon still has the box set to be ordered.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLTV9J4/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-
Amazon still has the box set to be ordered.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLTV9J4/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you. I ordered it. I just feel a little silly for ordering the wrong thing. I guess I will see if they will let me return this stand-alone vinyl. But I don't want to even attempt that until I have the boxed set in hand.
-
I know for some things, there is a limited time you can return it. I would advise calling them and requesting the return. If it works the same as the last return I did, they will almost immediately email you a return label to print and stick on the package to return it. But then you can just hold off until you get the box set. By doing it that way, you've locked in your eligibility to return it, and then it's up to you to either follow through on the return or keep it.
That's my two cents.
-
I know for some things, there is a limited time you can return it. I would advise calling them and requesting the return. If it works the same as the last return I did, they will almost immediately email you a return label to print and stick on the package to return it. But then you can just hold off until you get the box set. By doing it that way, you've locked in your eligibility to return it, and then it's up to you to either follow through on the return or keep it.
That's my two cents.
Good advice.
-
Track by track - Pale Blue Dot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk
Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.
Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!
-Marc.
Thank you for fixing the link :facepalm: you the real MVP!
It is a great video though. Made me appreciate the song a lot more.
-
:tup
-
I think I've settled down a bit on the new album. While it is solid, maybe the best Mangini era album, probably at least tied with ADTOE, it is still middle of the road for DT. Yes, they're 14 albums in, over 30+ years, but after two stale/bloated albums this one had to be great. In light of that, looking back at the last 4 albums, I can't help but feel something is missing, like taking Jon Fishman out of Phish, or Lars out of Metallica, or even a non-founding member like Neil Peart out of Rush, etc... you can't imagine it any other way, I'm not even the biggest fan of Rush's later material but I couldn't imagine them without Peart. Yes, I like DOT, but after almost 2 weeks with the album, I'm already over it. Same thing with the last 3 albums, maybe a little more time with ADTOE. I'm still going to revisit these albums, of course, I just mean the lust is over and I'm back to wishing MP was back. Even with the later albums with MP I'd still gush over them for months, especially Black Clouds. I'd gladly have DT take a chance with a new singer if it meant MP came back. I'm over the 'JLB is the voice of the band' narrative. I'm fine listening to Ozzy or Dio, Paul or Bruce, Roth or Hagar, etc... being as that's what seems to be the issue of MP ever coming back. I'm not even knocking Mike Mangini, he's a fine drummer, I might not be into his style as much as many other drummers out there metal or otherwise, but he does a fine job with the material he's given, but I miss the groove in DT's music that I don't think MM has. I've said elsewhere, MM is a metal drummer first, and I'm not a fan of the 'sound' of the drums on any of the albums he's been on, even DOT.
tl;dr I think the band shines more when there is pressure to put on a good album (ADTOE, DOT) but if those 2 albums are as good as it's going to get, well I guess that makes me a semi-casual DT fan, sad to say. If they changed their name after MP left I probably wouldn't be as critical. To me, MP is the DT drummer like Peart is the Rush drummer, and these last 4 albums have been a side project under the DT banner.
Vector is the worst Haken album.
Have to agree with this. While there were flashes of brilliance, I didn't think a lot of it was very good (haven't listened to it since the time it came out)
I would agree with you if Petrucci left. Without MP, DT still sounds like DT but without Petrucci there is no DT. If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
-
So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?" :lol
-
So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?" :lol
From what little I've listened to, yup. That's pretty much my take.
-
So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?" :lol
Some of his stuff is, some isn't. The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure" are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy. When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood. Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. :coolio
-
One of the songs I listened to was The Great Adventure. It's not the lyrics per se, but the music. I have an officemate who plays gospel music the whole day and the TGA song is really at home with that genre. It's good, I just did not expect it.
-
One of the songs I listened to was The Great Adventure. It's not the lyrics per se, but the music. I have an officemate who plays gospel music the whole day and the TGA song is really at home with that genre. It's good, I just did not expect it.
Try "Fighting With Destiny." It's sweet.
-
CRAP! I thought I had pre-ordered the boxed set through Amazon, but apparently I pre-ordered the vinyl only.
Really disappointed, but I *did* want the vinyl anyway. Just thought I would be getting it as a part of the whole boxed set package, and now I only have it as a stand-alone. Really pissed at myself for not just pre-ordering from the official website before they sold out. >:( :censored
:facepalm: OOF...that sucks, but hopefully you can return it. I guess my post about the box set going on sale to $119.99 on Amazon a couple months back in this thread got buried under the talk around "Fall Into The Light". It was made available again after the release date for that price, but it was back-ordered, and now the price has gone back up to $149.99 (last I saw). Either way, hopefully you are able to get the box set in, it really is a beautiful set.
The vinyl in the box set, however, has a different cover, so if you're a vinyl collector, and you can afford to keep it, the regular vinyl has the normal cover on it while the box set vinyl has the red cover (with white vinyl discs).
-Marc.
-
Right, ITPOE was first for SC
That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?
-Marc.
If I remember correctly, I Walk Beside You was originally written in the TOT sessions, but was omitted because it didn't fit with the rest of the album (thus making it the first song written for Octa).
If we go by the demo track-lists as the writing order (which I don't know why they'd be in any other order), we can also figure out the first songs written for the classic albums:
WD&DU: Afterlife
I&W: Metropolis
Awake: Scarred
FII: Take Away My Pain (or Raise The Knife if you wanna be technical)
SFAM: the 20 minute instrumental demo (which included elements of Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Dance Of Eternity and One Last Time)
TOT: In The Name Of God
After that it gets tricky.
I've already mentioned how (if memory serves) IWBY was the first song written for Octa.
The making of SC documentary also points out that ITPOE was the first song written for that album (though technically they probably wrote Part I first).
As stated earlier, it's been confirmed that STR was the first song written for DT12.
& it's been confirmed that AWE was the first song written for DOT.
That leaves SDOIT, BC&SL, ADTOE and TA, which I don't have a clue on. If anyone has any other leads, I'd be interested to know. :)
-
Right, ITPOE was first for SC
That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?
-Marc.
If I remember correctly, I Walk Beside You was originally written in the TOT sessions, but was omitted because it didn't fit with the rest of the album (thus making it the first song written for Octa).
If we go by the demo track-lists as the writing order (which I don't know why they'd be in any other order), we can also figure out the first songs written for the classic albums:
WD&DU: Afterlife
I&W: Metropolis
Awake: Scarred
FII: Take Away My Pain (or Raise The Knife if you wanna be technical)
SFAM: the 20 minute instrumental demo (which included elements of Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Dance Of Eternity and One Last Time)
TOT: In The Name Of God
After that it gets tricky.
I've already mentioned how (if memory serves) IWBY was the first song written for Octa.
The making of SC documentary also points out that ITPOE was the first song written for that album (though technically they probably wrote Part I first).
As stated earlier, it's been confirmed that STR was the first song written for DT12.
& it's been confirmed that AWE was the first song written for DOT.
That leaves SDOIT, BC&SL, ADTOE and TA, which I don't have a clue on. If anyone has any other leads, I'd be interested to know. :)
Cool, thanks for that! As for IAW, yes, Metropolis was written before the IAW sessions, but my question was about the first song written DURING new album sessions, disregarding any material written prior that would be resurrected for a new album (as they always seem to revive riffs or grooves they wrote while on the road).
This post has prompted me to look at my Ytse Jam Records demo discs and read MP's liner notes, and it does seem that after Metropolis, both TTT and LTL were written next.
In the Awake demos, MP states that Scarred, Raise The Knife, The Glass Prison, In The Name Of God, and Sacrificed Sons "were all the first tracks written for their respective albums."
Guess that leaves BC&SL, ADTOE and TA. If I had to guess, I would say either ANTR or TCOT was written first.
-Marc.
-
Ah, I misunderstood your question then. I thought what you meant was "out of all the songs on the album, which was written first?".
That clarification does bring up the question of SFAM though, since the demo was written in the FII sessions & not the SFAM sessions. :-\
-
Ah, I misunderstood your question then. I thought what you meant was "out of all the songs on the album, which was written first?".
That clarification does bring up the question of SFAM though, since the demo wasn't written in the FII sessions & not the SFAM sessions. :-\
No worries. Also, I think your last sentence meant to say that the Metropolis Part 2 demo WAS written in the FII sessions? I think SFAM was just expanded upon, but in the Making of SFAM liner notes, MP says that SDV was the first piece of music the band wrote with Jordan, so I think that counts.
As for ADTOE, according to this interview (https://noisecreep.com/dream-theater-band-interview/), OTBOA was the first song written for the album, although John has said that BTS and TITL were songs he had written beforehand and brought for the band to finish.
I couldn't find any interviews or articles that stated which BC&SL song was written first, though. So to recap...
Afterlife
Metropolis (sort of, the making of IAW had a long history)
Scarred
Raise The Knife
Strange Déja Vu (technically speaking)
The Glass Prison
In The Name Of God
Sacrificed Sons
In The Presence Of Enemies
?
On The Backs Of Angel's
Surrender To Reason
?
At Wit's End
So yeah, the whole "first song written tends to be long" thing kind of held up, even after MP left, given that OTBOA is nearly 9 minutes, and AWE is over 9 minutes.
-Marc.
-
There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.
On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
While D/T did better than TA in terms of chart position in the album sales chart, it sold 19,575 copies in the first week (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-3-6-dream-theater-go-the-distance), which is approximately 10K less than the first-week sales of TA (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-210-some-astonishing-debuts).
As for the album itself, after a few listens I find myself enjoying At Wit's End, Out of Reach and Viper King (incidentally, the songs with JLB's lyrics :lol), and while I respect TA as an experiment, going back to a more band-oriented sound and making a more compact album was definitely the right move. When it comes to the rest of the songs, I'm not really feeling it, but that's probably got more to do with my taste in music, which has gone through changes, than the quality of the album itself. If this had come out instead of S/T in 2013, I might've loved it, but I'm not sure I'm totally in the right headspace for new DT music anymore.
-
Has anyone heard the song “The Old Me” by Memphis May Fire? The riff and verse sounds verrrrry similar to Paralyzed. Probably coincidence but ooof
-
James shared a rehearsal scene from the studio via Twitter.
I hope we have a kickass DoT World Tour.
-
This tour will be great I'm sure. I'll be even more excited if and when James were to share a photo about the stage design too.
-
I would agree with you if Petrucci left. Without MP, DT still sounds like DT but without Petrucci there is no DT.
Yep. Vocals/Lead Guitar are the toughest things to replace.
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
-
I don't know, no one thought MP was replaceable before he left. Post-MP Dream Theater sounds like a hybrid of JLB solo albums but with JP and JR anyway, so I think JP is replaceable at this point, but not when MP was in the band. The combination of MP and JP/JM is the core of the DT sound to me, and MP/JP/JR is the feel of post-Moore DT, can't do much about KM leaving.
ADTOE and DOT are the best we'll get in the modern era, and while they're solid efforts, I have trouble thinking of them as Dream Theater and more like John Petrucci & Friends, a brand to market. Is current Opeth really just Mikael A and friends? Later Megadeth? Is post Ozzy Sabbath really Tony Iommi solo albums?
Edit: In light of that, I have to say, Barstool Warrior might be the best tune since Octavarium the song, just listened to it again, man that song does hit it out of the park, even if it has a few flaws. At Wit's End is growing on me. I actually think Untethered Angel is one of the better songs on the album as well, wasn't a fan of it when it was the lead single, and Fall Into The Light is still pretty good, I like the middle section a lot.
-
No JP equals no DT to me. I love Portnoy but drums are replaceable.
I cannot fathom DT continuing without JP.
D/T is absolutely a Dream Theater album despite my love for Portnoy.
I love every song on the album outside of Room 137 and UA but I still like Room 137 and think UA is ok also.
-
Post-MP Dream Theater sounds like a hybrid of JLB solo albums but with JP and JR anyway"
No, it sounds like Dream Theater.
-
Breaking All Illusions, Illumination Theory, and At Wit's End does not remotely sound like a hybrid of JLB solo with JP and JR anyway.
-
JP has been the main music and lyric writer since the very beginning of the band. MP was a very important part of the band, definitely, but John has always been the main guy in DT. There's no way we could say MP's contributions amount the same, or more, than JP's.
Btw, I'm not, at all, diminishing MP's role in the band for 25 years, he was a BIG part of DT, and I totally acknowledge and respect that. He poured his whole being into DT and that's what got him burnt out imo. I'm only saying that, as big of a role MP had in DT, JP's role was always bigger/more significant, only he wasn't as vocal/loud about it.
-
MP was a big part of DT, but not as a major songwriter. Because he isn't a major songwriter. And this isn't a demerit from him.
If Alex and Geddy wanted to continue Rush with another drummer, and if they make a new album, it would sound like Rush. Different drumming. Completely different lyrics. But songwriting, it would be totally Rush.
-
Breaking All Illusions, Illumination Theory, and At Wit's End does not remotely sound like a hybrid of JLB solo with JP and JR anyway.
I think he is just trying to say he’s a big Mike Portnoy fan haha. He’s definitely exaggerating but that said, the chorus of At Wit’s End would feel right at home on a JLB solo album.
MP and his playing style was a HUGE component to DT’s sound and they haven’t been the same since but the basic sound is still there. I would say JP and JLB are the most irreplaceable band members. If either of those two are out, you might as well call it a different band.
-
Just as a thought, if anyone here knows anything about editing Wikipedia articles, someone should probably add their #5 on the Top Album Sales chart to the Distance Over Time Wikipedia page.
I would, but I took a glance at it, and it's different from how I remember.
Here's the link to the chart. https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales
It feels like something that should be included.
-
MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it. Everything about JP leaving and it may as well be a different band is what I'm saying now. I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together. It's a main reason I find Neal Morse's work with Portnoy to be much stronger than without, and Neal is an excellent song writer. That's just my take, I'm harsher on the new DT because it sounds like a DT-side project.
-
MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.
I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!
-
If MP could contribute to the arrangements of Beethoven's ninth symphony, it would certainly be much better.
-
So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?" :lol
Some of his stuff is, some isn't. The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure" are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy. When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood. Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. :coolio
For me they feel very preachy, I stopped listen to TGA after three songs, could not stand it.
Will try it again in a few weeks
-
After listening for two weeks almost constantly to D/T, I went back to the complete catalogue over the weekend chronologically, actually I replaced WDaDu with the reunite live version, otherwise original CDs and I have to say, I am very happy beeing a DT fanboy.
In my opinion they developed in the right direction, there is no album I can’t listen to and three of the last four (I am not so fond of DT12) are in the top six.
Just bought tickets for the the concert in June in Dresden, it is a pity there are no M&G tickets yet :metal :heart
-
So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?" :lol
Some of his stuff is, some isn't. The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure" are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy. When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood. Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. :coolio
For me they feel very preachy, I stopped listen to TGA after three songs, could not stand it.
Will try it again in a few weeks
They don’t feel too preachy or too in your face religious to me, but I’m a Christian, so I might be biased :lol
-
MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.
I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!
When I say that, I'm not saying "song writer", I mean composing all the wild and best compositions DT has created was not done by one person.
-
When I say that, I'm not saying "song writer", I mean composing all the wild and best compositions DT has created was not done by one person.
John Petrucci has proven that he can write songs from start to finish, music and lyrics, with no help from anyone else.
Mike Portnoy cannot say that.
-
MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.
I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!
I disagree as well. The way MP described how much he did in the band when ADTOE came out I expected it to be just a bunch of random chords and notes strung together.
-
So the final track by track video reveals that "Viper King" was the 8th song written, now we can piece together the order in which the songs were written/completed!
At Wit's End
Paralyzed
3
Untethered Angel
5
Fall Into The Light
7
Viper King
9
S2N
Haven't quite figured out where the last four go- Barstool Warrior, Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Pale Blue Dot. Were their "song numbers" ever revealed?
-Marc.
-
Mangini said:
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
And the only thing I can decipher is that PBD is 9th. :lol
-
I heard it the other day and I must say it's definitively a grower, by now even Room 137 which had me a bit WTF-ey at first grabs me, and I think it's a cool and concise rocking tune.
And yet, I'm now listening to a band from Italy that just released their latest album (a folk / rock band) and I'm much more caught by it. I'm not saying it's better, also because the music is apples and oranges when compared, but at the end of Distance Over Time I am totally happy, and yet not with that "WHOAH!!!!!" factor, that urging desire to go back again, the delusion to realize that I have other stuff to do and that I won't be able to listen to the album until the next day...
I mean, there's nothing I dislike here. All the songs are from good to great. Songs that I consider bad or just so-so? none. Moments in the songs that makes me cringe? zero. Things I have to complain about the approach (the songwriting all together, the splitting of the tasks, the diversity in the lyrics writers, the lyrics themselves, the style of the album, the production....)? none, not a single one. And yet as I said, I miss that burning desire to go back to it again as soon as it finished and I'm already not listening to it every single day (same as Avantasia after all, they steal each other time).
To put it in a deliberately funny and not so literal way: I never liked so (relatively) little an album that I like so much (if it makes sense).
-
Mangini said:
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
And the only thing I can decipher is that PBD is 9th. :lol
:lol MM sure has a way to making things complicated... I guess that means PBD was written 9th then, maybe? That still leaves OOR, BW, and R137.
-Marc.
-
Mangini said:
"Very excited for D.O.T. to be heard from top to bottom. I'm smiling typing this knowing what's going to happen if you sit in a great, but fairly loud listening environment..and then hit that halfway mark and off you go... and then get to the last dooozy. Don't go out of order!! Then when you get back to Untethered Angel.. you may see why it is Track 1 even though it was written 4th. 4 Can't be 8 and 10 (if you get the bonus) can't be 4. 9 has to be 9, but not released first. Get it?"
And the only thing I can decipher is that PBD is 9th. :lol
I think what he's saying is:
-The fourth track (Barstool Warrior) wasn't the 8th track written
-The tenth track (Viper King) wasn't the 4th track written
-The ninth track (Pale Blue Dot) was the 9th written
So basically that's the only thing we didn't already know. :lol
-
While I'm appreciating the long overdue love for Mangini's drumming that has come with this album...I still don't hear much difference over what he did on the other DT albums, which makes me wonder why those albums (especially DT12) attracted such vitriol over the drum sound/drumming. He's been absolutely stellar all the way through his time with DT.
-
I don't get this "chorus" thing. Dream Theater isn't a chorus band. They have some but a lot of their best tracks aren't built around the chorus.
Signed.
-
Continuing this side-discussion, I never really liked Transatlatntic and Neal Morse. Probably haven't heard more than 3 songs from him over the years. I checked out some songs from TGA and I really liked I Got To Run and Welcome To The World. I might go back and check his discography and even relisten to TA as my musical tastes have expanded since then.
Give the first Transatlantic album another go, it is pretty amazing.
-
Room 137 reminds me of something that would be on an 80's Alice Cooper album.
For the life of me I have no idea what you mean by this. Half of Alice's 80's albums were punk/new wave influenced. And nothing on Constrictor or RYFAY sound anything like Room 137.
-
I really like this album. There is a lot of good music, much more heavier than the previous one. The acoustic segment of Fall into the light is the more beautiful and emotional moment of that album for me. I only had the time to listen to it 3 or 4 times.
-
Room 137 reminds me of something that would be on an 80's Alice Cooper album.
For the life of me I have no idea what you mean by this. Half of Alice's 80's albums were punk/new wave influenced. And nothing on Constrictor or RYFAY sound anything like Room 137.
The only Alice album I could see this coming from is Brutal Planet.
-
Room 137 reminds me of something that would be on an 80's Alice Cooper album.
For the life of me I have no idea what you mean by this. Half of Alice's 80's albums were punk/new wave influenced. And nothing on Constrictor or RYFAY sound anything like Room 137.
The only Alice album I could see this coming from is Brutal Planet.
Yeah, maybe. But that came out in 2000.
-
Room 137 reminds me of something that would be on an 80's Alice Cooper album.
For the life of me I have no idea what you mean by this. Half of Alice's 80's albums were punk/new wave influenced. And nothing on Constrictor or RYFAY sound anything like Room 137.
The only Alice album I could see this coming from is Brutal Planet.
Yeah, maybe. But that came out in 2000.
Just the straight forward metal combined with the playful sinister vibe... 80's Cooper is probably the wrong way to describe it, something like Brutal Planet is what I meant. Alice is one of my all time favorites so I didn't mean it as an insult. Just that it doesn't sound like modern metal to me.
-
Alice is one of my all time favorites
:metal
We're going to get along just fine!
-
I'm really enjoying this album a lot. My favorite track is S2n, but they are all just great. It might be my favorite of the Mangini era so far.
-
While I'm appreciating the long overdue love for Mangini's drumming that has come with this album...I still don't hear much difference over what he did on the other DT albums, which makes me wonder why those albums (especially DT12) attracted such vitriol over the drum sound/drumming. He's been absolutely stellar all the way through his time with DT.
Uhm...open and close hi-hats? :lol
-
This album is one of their best. It has a great balance of the old and new, the chunky and soaring moments. Really a pleasure to listen to loudly, the production is good, and I feel like MM absolutely shines here. I have DT tickets for a little over a month from now and am damned eager to be there!
-
He always did shine brightly IMHO. It's possible that some people had a hard time appreciating that, but like I said, he always did on the DT records and he always did with Steve Vai too. (I liked him with Annihilator too, I'm not too familiar with them though)
-
I agree. I love Mangini's drumming on A Dramatic Turn of Events. I know JP had a general idea of the drum parts, but there are lots of Mangini-isms in there (like where he follows Jordan's lines on the ride cymbal).
-
He always did shine brightly IMHO. It's possible that some people had a hard time appreciating that, but like I said, he always did on the DT records and he always did with Steve Vai too. (I liked him with Annihilator too, I'm not too familiar with them though)
I agree I loved Mangini's drumming from his DT debut, not sure why people are just noticing but I'm glad they are.
-
So far I've been listening to the album via the official playlist on Youtube when I'm away from home (I have the CD). Since that's now missing a track I guess I'll move on to a less legit 'full album' provider.
Delightful album, my favourite since SFAM. The Astonishing, which brought back my enthusiasm for the band, had higher highs, but this is a tad more consistent and sounds kickass apart from the at times annoyingly clicky bassdrum sound.
-
Damn, 40 pages! But here I am.
I avoided this thread and as much "spoiler" material as possible. Didn't listen to the singles, didn't read up on how they did this one differently, or the same, or whatever, until I'd listened to the album in its entirety. But life got in the way and I wasn't able to get to Best Buy until a week ago Saturday, then I learned that they stopped carrying CDs last year! So I had to order it. I have a physical copy of every Dream Theater album, and because I'm anal that way, I'm gonna keep that going as long as I have the option.
It came last Wednesday, and so did I (bad joke). Since then, I've listened to it probably 10 times. I like this album more than any Dream Theater since Scenes from a Memory. A lot of people were saying that at first, but it's been a couple dozen pages since then.
I like how the songs are more concise. I like the mix. The production is compressed, but not too horribly. It's passable. The most important thing is that I can hear everything. I've listened to it on CD in the car, lossless rip on the PC via earphones, and finally 320k mp3 on both the iPod and over the PC speakers. I really like this album. The music is great, the grooves are groovy.
For me, the weakest link continues to be JLB. I get it; this is how he sings now. Always the same tone, zero emotion, and silly breathy stuff when he's trying (and failing) to project emotion. Sorry, but that's what I hear. Nothing at all like back in the early days. So this album is in many ways a return to form, but not for everyone and everything. I know some people think he's fine here, some even say he's great. I'm glad some people like it. To me, the melodies and choruses are very hit or miss. Not so bad that it spoils the album for me, but as much as I love the music, I can already tell that JLB's boring sameness on every fucking song is what will eventually make me tire of this album.
But until that happens, I'm still digging it.
-
I did receive my boxed set this morning .....just as I was heading out the door to spend the entire weekend at Emerald City Comic Con. :facepalm:
It’s still in the shrink wrap, but I will do an unboxing video when I get home.
LLLOOOVVVEEE The ventricular cover!!!
-
I did receive my boxed set this morning .....just as I was heading out the door to spend the entire weekend at Emerald City Comic Con. :facepalm:
It’s still in the shrink wrap, but I will do an unboxing video when I get home.
LLLOOOVVVEEE The ventricular cover!!!
WHOA! I'm jealous - I just browsed the Entertainment Guests line-up for that con and I am FLOORED by how many are going! That's exciting, hope you have a great weekend!
Also, glad to hear you finally got your box set! I'm sure you'll be super tired when you get home on Sunday or Monday, but that'll give you some time to break open the box set and go through all that it has to offer! You'll love it!
-Marc.
-
I did receive my boxed set this morning .....just as I was heading out the door to spend the entire weekend at Emerald City Comic Con. :facepalm:
It’s still in the shrink wrap, but I will do an unboxing video when I get home.
LLLOOOVVVEEE The ventricular cover!!!
WHOA! I'm jealous - I just browsed the Entertainment Guests line-up for that con and I am FLOORED by how many are going! That's exciting, hope you have a great weekend!
Also, glad to hear you finally got your box set! I'm sure you'll be super tired when you get home on Sunday or Monday, but that'll give you some time to break open the box set and go through all that it has to offer! You'll love it!
-Marc.
Last year was better.... but I am excited about Peter Capaldi and the Stranger Things cast. I’m actually dressing up as the Capaldi Dr.....which was serendipity, because he’s a last minute replacement for Matt Smith who cancelled.
-
Damn, 40 pages! But here I am.
I avoided this thread and as much "spoiler" material as possible. Didn't listen to the singles, didn't read up on how they did this one differently, or the same, or whatever, until I'd listened to the album in its entirety. But life got in the way and I wasn't able to get to Best Buy until a week ago Saturday, then I learned that they stopped carrying CDs last year! So I had to order it. I have a physical copy of every Dream Theater album, and because I'm anal that way, I'm gonna keep that going as long as I have the option.
It came last Wednesday, and so did I (bad joke). Since then, I've listened to it probably 10 times. I like this album more than any Dream Theater since Scenes from a Memory. A lot of people were saying that at first, but it's been a couple dozen pages since then.
I like how the songs are more concise. I like the mix. The production is compressed, but not too horribly. It's passable. The most important thing is that I can hear everything. I've listened to it on CD in the car, lossless rip on the PC via earphones, and finally 320k mp3 on both the iPod and over the PC speakers. I really like this album. The music is great, the grooves are groovy.
For me, the weakest link continues to be JLB. I get it; this is how he sings now. Always the same tone, zero emotion, and silly breathy stuff when he's trying (and failing) to project emotion. Sorry, but that's what I hear. Nothing at all like back in the early days. So this album is in many ways a return to form, but not for everyone and everything. I know some people think he's fine here, some even say he's great. I'm glad some people like it. To me, the melodies and choruses are very hit or miss. Not so bad that it spoils the album for me, but as much as I love the music, I can already tell that JLB's boring sameness on every fucking song is what will eventually make me tire of this album.
But until that happens, I'm still digging it.
As always, your points are well-articulated and laid out nicely. :tup :tup
Regarding JLB, while I was a bit worried at first, after hearing the whole album, he still sounds good, even quite good at times, but I do think it is clear that the vocal melodies are being written with the thought that he cannot do what he used to, rather than merely being stylistic choices that fit the song. And that is okay. He is in his mid-50's now and is lucky to have any voice left given the issue he had over 20+ years ago combined with how he has abused it live over the years.
-
My favorite track is S2n.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/464/wowowne.jpg)
-
For me, the weakest link continues to be JLB. I get it; this is how he sings now. Always the same tone, zero emotion, and silly breathy stuff when he's trying (and failing) to project emotion. Sorry, but that's what I hear. Nothing at all like back in the early days. So this album is in many ways a return to form, but not for everyone and everything. I know some people think he's fine here, some even say he's great. I'm glad some people like it. To me, the melodies and choruses are very hit or miss. Not so bad that it spoils the album for me, but as much as I love the music, I can already tell that JLB's boring sameness on every fucking song is what will eventually make me tire of this album.
I think JLB displayed a variety of emotions in AWE. I remember listening to the instrumental mix of the outro section and that's when I noted how much JLB added to the impact of that section.
-
It's hard to describe. I can hear that he's trying to emote; I know that he's capable of it. I've heard him do it!
Imagine a device capable of measuring the "degree and intensity of emotion" in a vocal performance, from pure joy to infinite sadness.
(https://i.imgur.com/9tF5FuD.png)
James, to me, never gets outside the yellow anymore. He was never the most expressive guy to begin with, but he used to be able to at least get into the light green at one end and the orange at the other end. All I hear is blah blah yellow whenever he opens his mouth. The needle moves a bit, just not enough to do anything for me, not consistently. He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists. Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.
-
It's hard to describe.
You did a good job nonetheless.
I don't know if I fully agree with the specifics but there is something to what you are talking about. And I don't know how much of it I want to put on JLB's shoulders. He has a lot of control over the vocal melodies, but not 100% of it. He always defers to the song's lyricist when crafting his performance. If the lyricist calls for him to sing a song a certain way, he will incorporate that in to his delivery.
-
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.
-
Right. He's great on The Astonishing.
-
James hasn’t been the same singer since six degrees imo but I actually love his vocals on D/T and think he sounds great.
-
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.
Yup, Don't understand this criticism at all. Emotion is basically the ONLY thing he can bring these days, power and range are history.
-
Regarding James' voice and style in DoT I love what he does. He knows his limits, doesn't abuse his voice like he did on Awake and live performances and it sounds natural to me. And saying that James doesn't give emotions anymore is just off base. Range, power is another story but he conveys lots of emotions both TA and DoT, imo. Actually I've never had a problem about feeling emotions from the songs James sings from the beginining. And I can safely say that conveying amazing emotions define his singer career.
-
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists. Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.
:rollin I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.
-
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.
Yup, Don't understand this criticism at all. Emotion is basically the ONLY thing he can bring these days, power and range are history.
Say what! James shows Alot of power and range on the last four albums. Listen to S2N and Untethered Angel and tell me again that he has no power or range. If anything, he was way more limited on BC&SL than all of the Mangini era albums.
-
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.
Yup, Don't understand this criticism at all. Emotion is basically the ONLY thing he can bring these days, power and range are history.
Say what! James shows Alot of power and range on the last four albums. Listen to S2N and Untethered Angel and tell me again that he has no power or range. If anything, he was way more limited on BC&SL than all of the Mangini era albums.
Yeah, I agree. I somehow missed that comment. But I don't know how in the world anyone can say he has no power or range.
-
Yeah, I really don't understand where any of the criticism for James is coming from. I mean, at the very least in the studio setting, he's been sounding absolutely fantastic. And it's not just autotune or something, the emotion and style and the energy he brings into his performances isn't something that can be digitally enhanced.
Between The Astonishing, and the other stuff he's been doing lately, like his appearances on Rik Emmet's album, Ayreon, and Last Union, he's been absolutely knocking it out of the park! And that very much stays the case for D/T. Yes, a few of the parts on the new album have some effects on his vocals, but that's also true for A Dark Eternal Night, and it's a creative choice. There are also plenty of songs on D/T where he's just singing cleanly, with his natural voice, and it sounds fantastic.
-
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists. Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.
:rollin I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.
I actually like Nicolas Cage a lot, and "no range at all" is hyperbolic and unfair. He does a great "mopey sad everyman" and also a great "batshit insane everyman" and even a few things in between.
Maybe I'm not feeling it because it's always the same. I listened to DoT again last night. There's the pleading voice, the aggressive voice, the breathy little-girl voice, a few others, and I guess he's doing them well (lots of people seem to like them). But I don't hear James pleading, I hear him singing words he didn't write using the "pleading voice". I don't hear James being angry, I hear James singing words he didn't write using his "angry voice". And so on. It just doesn't move me. I don't hear actual emotion, though I do hear a singer projecting emotion, if that makes any sense. That why I thought of the parallel to acting. No, the actor is not actually sad or angry or happy or whatever, but he should be able to make you see a character who is sad or angry or happy, not some guy acting sad or angry or happy. That's the part that's hard to describe. I just don't feel the performance. I don't feel the character; I am 100% aware that it's all a performance.
The music, on the other hand, is amazing. JP's tone is incredible. He takes a solo and I'm in bliss for the next 30-45 seconds or whatever it is. The band goes into one of their patented DT jams, and I have to remember that I'm driving my car at the same time because suddenly I'm not sitting in a car, I'm sitting in a room with four phenomenal musicians and they're tearing the place apart.
Then the vocals come back in and I'm actually driving a car, listening to a guy sing words he didn't write and trying to sound like he means them.
-
I understand what you are saying. You are describing it well. I do NOT understand why you feel that way, because I don't feel anything close to that. I don't at all get the vibe of a singer singing words he didn't write and failing to emotionally connect with them. But that's okay--I don't need to. I enjoy it and I do feel the emotion in the songs.
-
Disagree with the comments on James lacking emotion but totally agree that the Nicolas Cage insults are unfair!
Cage has a ton of range and is actually a pretty great actor. He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.
-
Right. He's great on The Astonishing.
You could say he's... astonishing.
:biggrin:
-
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists. Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.
:rollin I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.
Maybe I'm not feeling it because it's always the same. I listened to DoT again last night. There's the pleading voice, the aggressive voice, the breathy little-girl voice,
Oh c'mon man, Faythe had to sing at least one song on the new album. Didn't you realise she is part of the band now ?
-
He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.
The movies Nicolas Cage is in are terrible largely because he is in them.
-
He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.
The movies Nicolas Cage is in are terrible largely because he is in them.
-
A quick tip to realize how much the production/mix of this album has improved:
Just compare the intros of BAI and Barstool Warrior!
WOW
-
Funny that you mention this specific comparison, because I did the same thing yesterday :omg:. I did it, because the intro of BW reminded me a lot of the intro riff form BAI.
One thing I have to critize about the otherwise excellent mix is, that in some party the keys are too low. this has been a thing since forever for DT, but songs like Viper King have such a great organ playing, it is a shame that you can only here it loudly at the intro and the solo. When you listen to the instrumental track, you start to realize how important the organ is in the chorus for example. You can hear it on the normal version, but the guitars drown it
-
I would much prefer the keys to be lower in the mix, especially during the verses and rhythm sections on a guitar driven song. That's why it's Rock-n-Roll..
This is part of the reason why d/t sounds so good, they got it right! :tup
-
Yeah, from day 1, DT has been a metal band that is centered around the guitars, with the keys playing a supporting role. Unless a particular song or part of a song is meant to feature the keys out in front, they will always be seen as a background, supporting instrument in this band. Don't get me wrong--they are a VERY important part of the band's sound. And JP considers the guitars AND keyboards to be the lead compositional components of the band's sound. But they are a slight second place behind the guitars.
-
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!! :metal :metal
-
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!! :metal :metal
You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.
B.Lee
-
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!! :metal :metal
You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.
B.Lee
For me (not counting the ACOS EP):
Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII
>>>>Its a great record.
-
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!! :metal :metal
You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.
B.Lee
For me (not counting the ACOS EP):
Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII
>>>>Its a great record.
Out of curiosity, where would you put ACOS?
-
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!! :metal :metal
You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.
B.Lee
For me (not counting the ACOS EP):
Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII
>>>>Its a great record.
We have the same first 4! My number 5 is ToT and 6 is FII. I don't rank ACOS because as you said it, it's an EP.
-
I'm feeling pretty much the same. It's up there with the upper echelon, in
the formerly untouchable tier. The stellar production enhances the greatness
of the songs. I would pay again for ADToE, DT12 and TA if they could be released
sounding like this.
Awake/I&W
DoT/SFaM/FII/SDoiT
-
I'm feeling pretty much the same. It's up there with the upper echelon, in
the formerly untouchable tier. The stellar production enhances the greatness
of the songs. I would pay again for ADToE, DT12 and TA if they could be released
sounding like this.
Awake/I&W
DoT/SFaM/FII/SDoiT
Great to see you found new interest in the band, emtee. :tup
-
My take on the vocals discussion is, I agree with Orbert's statement that the vocals rarely exceed "being there" status on D/T, but I disagree on the reason why. Yes, James can not sing those crazy notes anymore, but IMO he shouldn't have to rely on those shenanigans to have an outstanding performance. My real beef is rather with the melodies themselves he is singing. They often add very little harmonically or rhythmically.
It's a real shame, because James was the clear VIP on TA, which shows that with good melodies he can deliver big time.
-
The melodies are pretty boring. I guess that's rolled up in the whole thing, but I probably should've mentioned that separately, too. I never cried over him not being able to hit the high notes or wail like he used to. Others brought that up. What bothered me most was that he's just become boring. The melodies follow the tonics and chords in a pedestrian way and aren't very imaginative. The choruses sound the same as they've been for several albums now. Between that and the tentative delivery which robs things of any emotion, I'm just not digging it.
On the other hand, I listened to it yet again on the way to work this morning, and I'm starting to hear a little more emotion. I think. It still seems really subdued, but maybe that's because he's not wailing like he used to so he has to emote in other ways.
So who knows? Maybe this will be the one where my ears finally adjust to how James does things now. The music continues to intrigue me. I've already played this album more than anything since Six Degrees.
-
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs, which would be absurd, and on top of that I think he'd want to start running the show again and I don't think the guys would want that. DT has been able to progress in so many ways because of MPs departure - primarily in their connection with the fans and their live shows. Their show production is 10000% better and now that they're playing to click tracks, everything is synced much better. They can have backing tracks play, videos line up with the songs, the light show is consistent and perfect every time. Not being able to watch MP put his hand up in the air randomly during songs or throw sticks into the front row is a small price to pay.
-
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs...
Yeah, this should be in another thread. But I'll just say this: I would not just assume that he would not be willing to play anything from the MM era. I think, by and large, he would likely be fine with it. He probably would not be able to play some of it exactly the way MM plays it, but that's fine. He could easily reinterpret the drum parts and it would be fine. There are lots of reasons to believe he would not or should not come back. But I don't believe this is one of them.
Mike Portnoy has legitimate flaws you can point to. But being a hypocrite is not one of them, at least as far as I have seen. Refusing to play songs because they were written by someone who would then be a former member, while he regularly had other members of the band play songs that were done when their respective predecessors were in the band would be hypocritical. But he seemed to think nothing of James singing songs written when Charlie was in the band, or having Jordan play songs written when KM or Derek were in the band. I really don't think this would be much of a problem for him.
-
What Bosk said sums it up. MP is a professional, he would play them. Especially if the fans demand certain songs from the MM era.
-
Plus it's not like he'd have a say in the matter anyway. I'm sure that would all be ironed out. JP, with the MM era setlists has shown great respect to the entire catalog.
-
I have D/T ranked 5th in their Catalogue:
SFAM
I&W
SDOIT
Awake
D/T
It is truly a VERY fun album. I think it may have been bosk who said before the album came out.... it may not really bring anything crazily new, but it's just a very good record from start to finish.
At Wit's End is my favorite DT song since Six Degrees. It is truly fantastic and has the "magic" of classic DT.
Also, the "anchor away" part of BW was a big problem for me but now I am actually looking forward to it.
I find myself skipping UA and R137 now... and FITL I pretty much just listen to for the magical middle part but the rest of the album just doesn't get old to me.
I still like UA, R137 and especially FITL but the other tracks just seems so fresh to me still.
-
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs...
Yeah, this should be in another thread. But I'll just say this: I would not just assume that he would not be willing to play anything from the MM era. I think, by and large, he would likely be fine with it. He probably would not be able to play some of it exactly the way MM plays it, but that's fine. He could easily reinterpret the drum parts and it would be fine. There are lots of reasons to believe he would not or should not come back. But I don't believe this is one of them.
Mike Portnoy has legitimate flaws you can point to. But being a hypocrite is not one of them, at least as far as I have seen. Refusing to play songs because they were written by someone who would then be a former member, while he regularly had other members of the band play songs that were done when their respective predecessors were in the band would be hypocritical. But he seemed to think nothing of James singing songs written when Charlie was in the band, or having Jordan play songs written when KM or Derek were in the band. I really don't think this would be much of a problem for him.
You're absolutely right about everything except MP has said that he wouldn't want to play any MM songs.
I'd have to search for the interview which I don't really feel like doing but it was during the PSMS era when he wanted to play Acid Rain and Mike said something to Derek along the lines of, "I get it. I wouldn't want to play any parts of the person that replaced me but the fans would love it."
So the only thing we know on record is that Mike has no interest in that. He could change his mind but this is where it stands now.
-
That does sound familiar, now that you mention it.
-
I’m kinda 50/50 on whether MP would play Mangini era stuff if he ever came back. Bosk makes a good point about him insisting on JLB and JR play earlier material but I think he considers DT to be his band and he may consider anything recorded without him to not be DT. I’ve got a feeling he would basically say something like he would find it too heartbreaking to play DT stuff recorded while he was out of the band. Would be interesting to see though.
-
I’m kinda 50/50 on whether MP would play Mangini era stuff if he ever came back. Bosk makes a good point about him insisting on JLB and JR play earlier material but I think he considers DT to be his band and he may consider anything recorded without him to not be DT. I’ve got a feeling he would basically say something like he would find it too heartbreaking to play DT stuff recorded while he was out of the band. Would be interesting to see though.
But JLB and JR play stuff that was recorded BEFORE they entered the band, and are still in the band. For MP, coming back and playing stuff that was written AFTER he left would feel weird. As said above, he stated that it would be like asking Derek to play Jordan's DT songs, which he probably would not be interested in doing. Heck, DS has even gone on record as saying that he wants to get away from playing DT music in general, even stuff he wrote with the band.
It would be very awkward, I think, hearing him play anything that was written with MM in the band, not that he couldn't do it, or do it his way, but just because it was released as a band without him in it. Maybe if there was just ONE song the band insisted on playing from the MM-era if MP rejoined, he might concede to that, which reminds me of Steve Howe, who I think wasn't very keen on the Yes West material, but was convinced to be play "Owner Of A Lonely Heart", a song released by Yes but with his successor Trevor Rabin, who has a distinctly different sound and style, but Steve plays it anyway.
So who knows... I don't think MP or the band are really looking to reunite in any capacity that would be beyond a single night, or even a single song. Baby steps, though, as having JR and MP on the same stage again at Cruise To The Edge was, I think, the first time any of the current DT members have been on stage with MP since 2010. It may have taken nine years, but we might see MP with JP or the rest of DT on a stage again before they all call it a day. With the recent news that Nick Mason got tired of waiting for the call for a Pink Floyd reunion that never happened, I don't see MP ever truly closing that door if the others were open to it, but I don't feel like now (or any time soon) is the right time. Maybe for DT's 40th anniversary in 2025?
-Marc.
-
I don't care about MP coming back, and it's way off topic.
D/T has settled and revealed for me just as I had hoped. I'm singing along with it in the car, loving the vocals. The instrumental sections are nuts and a little more concise. MM sounds like a powerhouse. The production could be the best they've ever had. And it sounds so energised and fun! I still can't quite believe it. This was really a make or break release for me as 8VM was the last album i enjoyed by them before this. Bravo, still.
Hoping to catch them on tour in the UK at some point.
-
Me when I see there's yet another MP vs MM discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZxWg0sw_BI
-
Back to the album.....I've been giving this 2-3 days in between listens since the first day it came out, to keep it fresh, though I should listen to it 2-3 times a day. An incredibly enjoyable album.
As for my wife, using the old 'if this were vinyl' format, the version I made for her is:
Side One
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
Fall Into The Light
Barstool Warrior
(after 6-8 seconds of inserted silence…)
Side Two
Room 137
S2N
Out Of Reach
At Wit's End
My version
Same order as the official release, but with ‘Viper King’ inserted before ‘Pale Blue Dot’. With the title, at first I thought it was some sort of ‘Forsaken’ type theme. :D A fun song, adds a bit of punch near the end, doesn’t ruin any ‘flow’ for me, and actually improves it IMHO. And PBD just has to be the finale.
I did shorten the amount of silence for the AWE ‘Easter Egg’. Other than that, and unlike all previous releases from SC onward, there are no songs removed. A great album. Other than ‘Barstool Warrior’ and ‘Out of Reach’ (tracks I enjoy but see them not being the best on stage), I wish they’d perform the rest on this tour. That’s how good this album is to me.
I’d give eight songs a grade of at least an ‘A-‘, with the other two at a ‘B’ or better. I hope within a year I’ll be able to note most of the subtle nuances throughout the albums as well.
Thank you, Dream Theater.
-
First band's release I got into was Octavarium, alghout I've known the band since 2002. Thought the Self titled and specially The Astonishig were weak albums and kinda lost interest for DT. I'm really happy that D/T changed that, being their strongest release since 8V, when I heard Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot I knew this was an instant classic. The first 3 to 4 minutes of these two songs are so diverse and surprising, without that feeling they're chopping parts (like I feel it happens on Breaking All Illusions), it flows really well.
Probably the best sounding album of the Mangini Era but still far from gems like Scenes, 6doit and Octavarium. I think the vocals are somewhat strange, like they don't fit the particular sound they were aiming at with the other instruments. It's kinda pale and muddy. And finally the rythm session is really clear and audible without the need to mess with the equalizer even on low volumes. I loved Myung's tone in this one, so clear and heavy at the same time.
Besides the wierd vocal mix, overall James is killing in this album, I really think the more he stays into his mid tone range for an ocasional trip on higher notes the better, I'm not a fan of his timbre when doing high notes, his voice tends to get quite ducky. Mangini kills it, it shows how different his style is in the sense that he's trying to fill the drummer role and stick more with Myung on the rythm session, instead of the more front-man music-writer style of Portnoy. And those fills on Petrucci and Rudess solos are mindblowing!
As usual Petrucci shows some new solo tricks but nothing too unusual . I really liked how he seated in the back with the rythm guys on several parts just rolling those muffled riff notes, attaining a certain balance and making the album sound less guitar-orientend when it really isn't. Rudess shines on what I think is the most underrated of his extense abilities: background atmospheric tone. Wierd outwordly pads, fatty organ patches, beatiful piano themes setting the correct song mood for the strings.
Having no song I skip on every listen I dare to say it's the album I've enjoyed the most, and that's probably because it's a really mature-metal oriented piece with few ballads. Their top albums for me are the SFAM - 8V cycle, but every one of them there's songs I usually skip or only listen in the "whole album" listening experience. I liked ALL the songs, and even after the cringe-ballad supermarket JP fleshed out in The Astonishing, Out of Reach is quite refreshing and I enjoyed enough to play it on its own while shuffling songs on my car.
Only two strange things happened for me with this release. First one is that while I liked the 3 pre-released songs (specially Fall Into the Light), I wasn't particularly impressed with them, but as I heard with the entire album I was like "AAAAH so that's what they were meant for" and I like them even more now.
Second think I find unfitting is that I'd give it a 10/10 1st/14 but it feels strange as no particular song stands out to me as their best song to date. Pale Blue Dot cracks the top 3 maybe. A 20 minute epic in the style of this album would propably be my #1 song. So I'd say the missing epic makes this album a 9,5 and maybe a top 3(or 4) album. It's good to be excited with this band again!
-
There’s a new album?
How about that ....
-
There’s a new album?
How about that ....
LOL! :biggrin:
-
Interesting Spotify statistics as of this moment:
Number of plays:
UA - 2,240,235
Paralyzed - 1,443,138
FitL - 1,887,159
BW - 757,768
R137 - 639,640
S2N - 633,342
AWE - 663,818
OoR - 506,393
PBD - 528,429
VK - 409,548
-
So it's been a few weeks, and to my pleasant amazement, I'm still digging the new album. I'm not sure what it is specifically but I am enjoying this much more than any of the post MP albums.
Pale Blue Dot, Paralyzed, Barstool Warrior...just great songs.
-
Interesting Spotify statistics as of this moment:
Number of plays:
UA - 2,240,235
Paralyzed - 1,443,138
FitL - 1,887,159
BW - 757,768
R137 - 639,640
S2N - 633,342
AWE - 663,818
OoR - 506,393
PBD - 528,429
VK - 409,548
Looks about right. The "singles" released before the album dropped are naturally going to have more plays.
-
Ok.
So....after one listen there's nothing really "wrong" with album. It's ok stuff, some recycled noises and riffs here n there (how could there not be after all these years). Considering nothing from them had moved me since Illumination Theory that I found myself tapping along to a few songs is a good sign.
I can already tell that A Wit's End will get the highest replay from me. Barstool Warrior was interesting, SN2 as well and the ballad was decent, though the lyrics seemed a little forced. Dave Mustaine could probably ask for some royalties for the beginning of Fall Into the Light, sounds more megadeth than megadeth.
cute album
7/10
Ytse
-
Interesting Spotify statistics as of this moment:
Number of plays:
UA - 2,240,235
Paralyzed - 1,443,138
FitL - 1,887,159
BW - 757,768
R137 - 639,640
S2N - 633,342
AWE - 663,818
OoR - 506,393
PBD - 528,429
VK - 409,548
Looks about right. The "singles" released before the album dropped are naturally going to have more plays.
Yep. What I found interesting though was BW and AWE appears to have the most replay value. In DT's artist page, their most popular songs as of the moment are BW, PMU, Parayzed, UA, and AWE.
-
This might be old news, but anyone else notice they used the wrong logo font for this album?
-
This might be old news, but anyone else notice they used the wrong logo font for this album?
News to me. I don't see what you're referring to.
-
This might be old news, but anyone else notice they used the wrong logo font for this album?
News to me. I don't see what you're referring to.
Compare the tail of the M. The font on DoT is the unofficial one that's been floating around the internet for years.
-
Compare the tail of the M. The font on DoT is the unofficial one that's been floating around the internet for years.
Okay, I see it now. Honestly, I never in a million years would have noticed it, but I don't pay that much attention.
-
Compare the tail of the M. The font on DoT is the unofficial one that's been floating around the internet for years.
Okay, I see it now. Honestly, I never in a million years would have noticed it, but I don't pay that much attention.
I got my artbook today, so it was very noticeable.
-
I got my artbook today, so it was very noticeable.
I guess I was too excited to look inside the artbook, to pay attention to the outside of it, haha.
I do wonder why this version of the font was used.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/bX8VHi7.png) (https://i.imgur.com/1qbxcnY.png)
I still can't see the difference.
-
Not sure how well you can see it on the actual CD, but on the H, there is a tiny gap between the left vertical line and the horizontal line. But on the "unofficial" font, the vertical and the horizontal bleed into each other, so that gap isn't there. That's one other thing I noticed about it.
It is much better visible on the physical versions, especially something like vinyls, or something with a higher resolution.
-
Lazy Syme?
-
(https://i.imgur.com/bX8VHi7.png) (https://i.imgur.com/1qbxcnY.png)
I still can't see the difference.
Both have the official font. Strange. Both my CD and artbook have the unofficial font.
-
Lazy Syme?
I feel like having the font from his other work with the band should be more accessible than having to search for it online. I wonder if he deleted it after they didn't commission him to do the artwork for The Astonishing, haha.
-
Lazy Syme?
I feel like having the font from his other work with the band should be more accessible than having to search for it online. I wonder if he deleted it after they didn't commission him to do the artwork for The Astonishing, haha.
Remember, this is the guy who takes watermarked images straight from Google.
-
Just wanted to say that Barstool Warrior is the band's best song since the epic Octavarium. This song just hits all the right buttons, it is brought down a peg by the chorus though. Could have been better, but it just rules on every other level other MM-era tunes just don't, so many powerful parts in BW.
AWE is great, too. I don't know about Pale Blue Dot, though. Seems unfinished, not well arranged. Maybe needs more listens. The intro kills though.
-
(cover art for Awake and Distance Over Time)
I still can't see the difference.
Both have the official font. Strange. Both my CD and artbook have the unofficial font.
So the CD cover art uses the official font, but the artbook and the label on the CD itself use the unofficial font?
Lazy Syme?
I feel like having the font from his other work with the band should be more accessible than having to search for it online. I wonder if he deleted it after they didn't commission him to do the artwork for The Astonishing, haha.
Remember, this is the guy who takes watermarked images straight from Google.
I thought about that, too. Do we know if Syme was involved in producing the artbook?
-
(cover art for Awake and Distance Over Time)
I still can't see the difference.
Both have the official font. Strange. Both my CD and artbook have the unofficial font.
So the CD cover art uses the official font, but the artbook and the label on the CD itself use the unofficial font?
Lazy Syme?
I feel like having the font from his other work with the band should be more accessible than having to search for it online. I wonder if he deleted it after they didn't commission him to do the artwork for The Astonishing, haha.
Remember, this is the guy who takes watermarked images straight from Google.
I thought about that, too. Do we know if Syme was involved in producing the artbook?
No, both pictures you posted have the official font, but the physical CD and artbook both have the unofficial one.
-
(cover art for Awake and Distance Over Time)
I still can't see the difference.
Both have the official font. Strange. Both my CD and artbook have the unofficial font.
So the CD cover art uses the official font, but the artbook and the label on the CD itself use the unofficial font?
Lazy Syme?
I feel like having the font from his other work with the band should be more accessible than having to search for it online. I wonder if he deleted it after they didn't commission him to do the artwork for The Astonishing, haha.
Remember, this is the guy who takes watermarked images straight from Google.
I thought about that, too. Do we know if Syme was involved in producing the artbook?
No, both pictures you posted have the official font, but the physical CD and artbook both have the unofficial one.
Oh my god, I can see it now. I'm looking at my pics of the box set LP cover, and I see the longer tail on the M, but the artbook has a shorter tail on the M. That is a GLARING misuse...how unfortunate. So the artwork for the album cover online, as posted by Orbert, is correct, but somehow, when the proofs for the artbook cover came around, I guess no one caught or bothered to check the font because it's definitely different. Oof... :facepalm:
-Marc.
-
What!?!?! I just found out that my video of Paralyzed is no longer "official" and now this! :lol
-
:lol
were these the same artbooks that were delayed? Seems like a non issue on the grand scheme of things, but kind of interesting to see such a mistake. I guess it could make those who own this have a unique item for the ultra curious DT fans out there
-
:lol
were these the same artbooks that were delayed? Seems like a non issue on the grand scheme of things, but kind of interesting to see such a mistake. I guess it could make those who own this have a unique item for the ultra curious DT fans out there
Were all of them delayed, though? I got mine in the deluxe box set, which got to my house from Amazon just 10 days after release. Some folks are still waiting to get theirs, just the stand-alone artbook. I wonder if those have the fixed font, or if they'll be like the ones from the box set as well?
-Marc.
-
I really havent followed the delay situation since I'm all digital these days, but I do wonder if there is a connection.
-
I'm really enjoying the new album, going through emotions like "this is the DT that has been missing since Octavarium!" and similar moments of joy. While I loved and listened to a lot of The Astonishing, there was also something lacking in respect to the usual DT-album-feel and I'm pretty much completely satisfied in this regard with DoT. Heavier, dirtier, proggier, more song-y.
However, there are some moments where I'm not 100% a fan of Petrucci's lyricism (although this has technically always been the case, I've just grown older to care more about whether or not the lyrics click with me). Especially Untethered Angel doesn't really sit right with me. First, some tidbits just don't seem very original / poetic, like "entangled and tied in knots, cold feet and second thoughts, a painful thing to watch".
Furthermore, what is he actually trying to say in this song? "Yeah, listen, I know you have some problems with anxiety that make you kinda live in agony, so, I just wanna tell you that your fear is severely limiting yourself"? It seems like most people who suffer from such fears already know that and it makes them even more frustrated to know that there is this huge burden keeping them from being what they want to be. It seems kind of "thanks, I'm cured"-like.
Anybody with me or able to share some additional context / discussion for the lyrics?
-
Four listens in (So still not really qualified to say much) but the sonics and compression really bother me and there's something about the processing of James vocals that are strange in some cases but other than that.....
It's very inspiring. Lyrics are better too. The first two tracks (The ones I never listened to until Sunday were my least favorite on the album. Gets much better after that. Jordan is all over this record but he's difficult to hear unfortunately. Maybe the instrumental disc which I have not yet explored will be different.
Anyone try that yet?
-
D/T just hit a milestone on Spotify, with 10 million streams!
-
Maybe the instrumental disc which I have not yet explored will be different.
Anyone try that yet?
I did, it's pretty great.
D/T just hit a milestone on Spotify, with 10 million streams!
Very cool :tup
-
Sorry if this has been brought up in previous pages already, but has anyone noticed that the copyright information for this album says, "Ytse Jams Inc. under exclusive license to InsideOutMusic"? It never said anything like that for their RoadRunner albums. I'm not a legal expert, but this makes it sound like what this basically means is that all rights to the album are actually retained by the band, and they're basically licensing it out to the label.
In other words, it makes it sound like, if DT ever switches to another label, that the album and its rights would remain belonging to the band, so that if they want to do anything with it in the future (like releasing a remaster, just as an example), they'd have the full rights to do that with the new label, or through any means they choose.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, for all I know, this wording doesn't mean much of anything. But it stuck out to me, so I just wanted to point it out.
-
No General DT Discussion thread to post this, so let me just say for the umpteenth time . . .
John Petrucci is a musical genius. So many INCREDIBLE songs and INCREDIBLE moments strewn over these 14 albums + EP. I'm not discounting the keyboardists, but JP is the driving genius behind it. So yeah this comment kinda applies to the D/T discussion I guess.
-
Furthermore, what is he actually trying to say in this song? "Yeah, listen, I know you have some problems with anxiety that make you kinda live in agony, so, I just wanna tell you that your fear is severely limiting yourself"? It seems like most people who suffer from such fears already know that and it makes them even more frustrated to know that there is this huge burden keeping them from being what they want to be. It seems kind of "thanks, I'm cured"-like.
Anybody with me or able to share some additional context / discussion for the lyrics?
It's not about anxiety in general, but the anxiety you get when you want to do something extraordinary, but decide it's either too hard or the risk is too high, so you back out and never fulfill your true potential.
It's saying "if you have a dream, go out and chase it".
-
Jordan is all over this record but he's difficult to hear unfortunately.
Agreed. Maybe his parts are more subtle but...I listened to the album with a good pair of earphones and Ruddess didn't really stand out. His part in S2N at around 2:09 is the only thing that really stood out for me. I love that part but it's very short.
-
So finally after many years of lurking, I decided to open an account.
Just to introduce myself I have been into DT since I&W, when at the time almost no one in UK knew who they were. This album became one of my favourites, only to be topped a couple of years later... Awake was a dark revelation over time and has been my all time favourite album ever since really (I don't get out as much as I did 😂). I like/love all DT albums to varying degrees although DT12 requires a little effort, and TA still leaves me a little cold thinking about the effort required for it's attention.
As I have got older I found the excitement level dropping on each release, since 8V really, although ADTOE was better. But now they're back.....
For me this takes me back to the 90s for energy and focus, and is the album I thought DT12 should have been (Enigma Machine is terrific though). Initially the first three singles seemed ok (same old...) but in the context of the whole album, have improved their standing to the point that I can listen to UA in particular as a stand alone. And then those centrepiece four songs, each a standout on their own but complementing each other when played as a whole. BW brought memories of days gone by, R137 a jaunty, slightly unusual piece for DT but still terrific. S2N has great instrumentation led by JM (yes with a great chorus), and the heaven that is AWE where JP proves that he's still the master of tugging heartstrings.
Due to time constrictions, I have only listened to D/T 5 or 6 times so PBD has still not completely worked its way into my psyche yet, but it's happening. VK is just a fun blast and a perfect coda. The first time I listened to the album as a whole was on bus journey to a different city (I live in Shanghai now) and as soon as I could I get in touch with my UK friends, saying DT have their balls back, go buy the album, you will not be disappointed. I kid you not.
So it was D/T that persuaded me to finally join this group, to rave after 25 years about my fave group. Currently although the new car smell is still there, I would put D/T in my top 5, but I doubt it will go out of there. It is certainly the most consistent album since SFAM, IMHO, and they still had a couple of great releases after that.
Hope the guys can keep it up for DT15 😎
I'm sure I have trod on a few guys toes here, but isn't that the DTF way?
-
..snip..
Good first post. Welcome sir!
-
Maybe the instrumental disc which I have not yet explored will be different.
Anyone try that yet?
I did, it's pretty great.
D/T just hit a milestone on Spotify, with 10 million streams!
Very cool :tup
Cool yes, but the band isn't making any money off of that unfortunately.
-
Maybe the instrumental disc which I have not yet explored will be different.
Anyone try that yet?
I did, it's pretty great.
D/T just hit a milestone on Spotify, with 10 million streams!
Very cool :tup
Awesome!
I have something else to look forward to then.
-
I’ve taken my time with D/T and ultimately have decided that it’s a damned fine record!
My first spin, a few weeks ago, brought to mind that time I tried on my second wife’s bra. A little loose at the top (hey, she had broad shoulders. She always told me her name was Tammy but I suspect she started life as Tommy), kinda tight around the middle, and twisted toward the bottom. I was tempted to drag the album down to the DT Custom Shops™ for some modifications, but as the weeks wore on I found that my first impressions faded. Now the album fits me to a tee.
Untethered Angel, Paralyzed, and Fall into the Light are all great rockers that are subtle in their complexity while still providing great sing-along moments. On my first few listens, I was anxious to get through these opening tunes (I’d heard them before) but pleasantly, the more I listen the more I savor them.
Unintuitive to its title, Barstool Warrior is a stellar throwback the softer side of DT prog that always seems much grander than its concise 6:43. Without a doubt, one of the real standouts on the album.
I really got into Room 137 from the start. The beautiful people, the beautiful people…sorry, could help it. Quite a different tune for DT and enjoyable. I really like that it’s very rhythmic…all the instruments and even the vocals stay locked into a percussive theme throughout.
S2N (I find it funny that the band preempted DTF to give this song an acronym from the start) is my favorite type of DT metal. I like it when the band uses the heavy “chugging” as accents rather than the focus. The chorus demands that I sing along at top volume (when I’m in the car only). Great riffs and JMX really steals the show on this tune but JP and JR aren’t far behind. Fantastic solos.
My favorite of the album, At Wit’s End is (to me) the best thing DT has done in a very long time. This is the only song on the album that the lyrics really stand out and grab me. Of course, JLB’s performance of them is quite evocative which helps a great deal. The frenetic opening really sets the stage and provides a nice contrast with the verses and chorus. MM really brings the thunder in this tune and without a doubt this is my favorite performance of his since he joined the band. The last half of the song, from 4:45 on just leaves me speechless. The piano, the vocal melody, the introduction of the chugging riff, the synth as it harmonizes with James, the build-up to JP’s mountain top lead, James haunting “don’t leave me now” that harmonizes with the afore mentioned guitar. All, sublime.
It took a while for Out of Reach to hit me. It’s maybe not fair that it was placed after WE…that’s just a hard act to follow. I like it though… and holy Satriani, does JP channel his G3 friend in that first lead break or what. The tone and performance sounds like a Satch guest spot.
I get the impression that I should like Pale Blue Dot more than I do. It’s great and all, a true showcase for DT’s angular proggy writing style, but to me it suffers because of my preconceived notions of the message of Sagan’s words. My bias keeps getting in the way. I tend to enjoy this song a lot more if I zone out and get more in Cygnus X1 frame of mind then Carl Sagan’s humanist poetry.
I absolutely love that DT wrote a Van Halenesque swinging-shuffle just for fun. I had a huge smile on my face the first time I heard it. It’s a great performance and all, but over time I’ve found that I prefer the album without listening to Viper King. Dozens of listens later, I tend to skip it now. I guess that’s why it’s a bonus song.
Anyway, what an accomplishment for the band. It’s astonishing that this far into their careers, and all these years later, they can still put out albums chock full of thrills. Overall, a consistently stellar record that feels ageless from this end. I guess we’ll find out…over time.
-
I did a search in the forum and it seems to me that this good Petrucci/LaBrie interview in Italy for the new album has not been posted.
So I 'm posting it now.
Kudos to Barbara Caserta for the smart and interesting questions. Petrucci with his hair and beard seems like a indian Guru now.
https://youtu.be/ilIFuCe7TuY (https://youtu.be/ilIFuCe7TuY)
-
Maybe the instrumental disc which I have not yet explored will be different.
Anyone try that yet?
I did, it's pretty great.
D/T just hit a milestone on Spotify, with 10 million streams!
Very cool :tup
Cool yes, but the band isn't making any money off of that unfortunately.
Uhm...no. Artists do get paid on Spotify based on the number of streams.
-
It was posted.
-
Uhm...no. Artists do get paid on Spotify based on the number of streams.
Not nearly as much as they deserve to. Spotify are crooks.
Ironically enough, based on what I've read, the one streaming service that pays the biggest cut of royalties to the artists is Napster.
-
^ whether Spotify pays as much as the artist deserves is another story.
-
Uhm...no. Artists do get paid on Spotify based on the number of streams.
Not nearly as much as they deserve to. Spotify are crooks.
Ironically enough, based on what I've read, the one streaming service that pays the biggest cut of royalties to the artists is Napster.
DT maybe made $600 off those streams. MAYBE.
-
Uhm...no. Artists do get paid on Spotify based on the number of streams.
Not nearly as much as they deserve to. Spotify are crooks.
Ironically enough, based on what I've read, the one streaming service that pays the biggest cut of royalties to the artists is Napster.
DT maybe made $600 off those streams. MAYBE.
I have been looking at different Spotify online calculators, and that figure is severely below all the estimates I have seen so far.
-
I have been looking at different Spotify online calculators, and that figure is severely below all the estimates I have seen so far.
Yeah, I don't think it's quite that low, but considering that whatever Spotify ends up paying for the plays has to be divided between the label AND the band, and that the labels usually take the majority cut, and that there are 5 guys in the band, it's still not going to be nearly as much as they should be getting for 10 million plays.
-
I gave the album a few days rest and when I spun it again
it was even stronger! That's a good indicator that it will
age well.
-
I gave the album a few days rest and when I spun it again
it was even stronger! That's a good indicator that it will
age well.
Did the same and listened twice in a row and man was it fantastic! Geez, I LOVE that album!
B.Lee
-
So, Paralyzed and Fall Into the Light, are hitting harder.
-
In my opinion, At Wit's End is DT's most perfect song. Song is full of emotion, JP's solo is amazing, the lyrics are deep...I just don't see any flaw in this song.
-
So, Paralyzed and Fall Into the Light, are hitting me harder.
-
So, Paralyzed and Fall Into the Light, are hitting me harder.
Self-quote?
-
For emphasis.
-
As people say new car smell is still there but I would easily put it top 3 or top 4 if I put I and W behind it. Awake and SFAM I like a bit better than D/T but it's close.
Highlights after MANY MANY listens
-The guitar solo in Bar stool Warrior
-Mangini's playing on the entire album, but on Pale Blue Dot is just incredible
-Myung's Bass, I can hear him throughout and his playing is so solid
-AWE, the emotional "Don't leave me now" That song goes from heavy playing to such emotional highs
-How there is no bloat on the album, everything is so tight and concise without sacrificing technicality, in fact I feel the compositions are more intricate without the "middle of metropolis" moments, except for Pale Blue Dot which it works exceptionally well.
I gave the album a few days break and when I came back to it, I listened back to back
-
What I like is that some moments where you can "fear" the bloat, gets resolved pretty quickly; see for example the ending of Fall Into the Light or S2N, they're to the point while still allowing some shredding, in previous albums maybe those sections would have laster 2-3 minutes longer (and that would have been 2-3 minutes too many).
-
What I like is that some moments where you can "fear" the bloat, gets resolved pretty quickly; see for example the ending of Fall Into the Light or S2N, they're to the point while still allowing some shredding, in previous albums maybe those sections would have laster 2-3 minutes longer (and that would have been 2-3 minutes too many).
Yeah, although I don't suffer from the "fear of the bloat" problem as much as some, in that I don't think most of their long songs are "bloated," that's a pretty good description. The songs are concise and don't stray TOO far down the rabbit hole for very long before coming back. Everything feels concise and well-placed. Even the "long" songs don't really feel long, for the most part. In many ways, I feel like this album is very similar to Awake. It still has those DT signature "prog" moments, but, again, it just feels very focused and concise.
-
A long time ago, Dream Theater was compared to Yes, and a lot of people thought that that was stupid because they don't sound anything alike, but I immediately saw the parallels in their approach to writing and recording, and also the trajectory their writing styles have taken. At one point, Yes songs were getting longer and longer until they released a double album of all "side-long epics". Dream Theater seemed to get a bit epic-crazy in the mid-2000s, seemingly with more emphasis placed on instrumentals than the songs of which they were a part (hopefully that makes sense). "Bloated" to me is an accurate way to describe some of Black Clouds & Silver Linings and also Six Degrees.
But eventually Yes came back to albums with shorter, more "regular" songs, and Distance Over Time feels like DT kinda getting back into that. Remembering that it still comes down to the song. The instrumentals should serve the song, not the other way around.
-
They started the process of removing the bloat with the self-titled album. Which is why for all that album's faults, it was an important step for them to take.
-
It's mostly not something I hate actually. I'm fine with it. The notes matter and they are right IMHO.
-
But eventually Yes came back to albums with shorter, more "regular" songs, and Distance Over Time feels like DT kinda getting back into that. Remembering that it still comes down to the song. The instrumentals should serve the song, not the other way around.
Yeah, and I actually think it started earlier than that. To me, even though there are longer songs, I think the "course correction," if you want to call it that, started with ADTOE. Then, the songwriting is even more focused on DT12, save for Illumination Theory, and then we get d/t being even more focused. And you can say TA fits right into that evolution as well, but it is a different animal that has shorter songs for a different reason.
-
But eventually Yes came back to albums with shorter, more "regular" songs, and Distance Over Time feels like DT kinda getting back into that. Remembering that it still comes down to the song. The instrumentals should serve the song, not the other way around.
Yeah, and I actually think it started earlier than that. To me, even though there are longer songs, I think the "course correction," if you want to call it that, started with ADTOE. Then, the songwriting is even more focused on DT12, save for Illumination Theory, and then we get d/t being even more focused. And you can say TA fits right into that evolution as well, but it is a different animal that has shorter songs for a different reason.
Agreed completely. I really noticed it on ADTOE and DT12, and obviously, while TA is its own thing, the songs are shorter on that as well.
I know all the progheads and musicians love all long stuff, but there needs to be a balance. I LOVE long songs, relatively speaking. But the longer instrumental pieces within the songs need to (for me), as was said above, SERVE THE SONG, as opposed to being a wankfest to just show how technically brilliant the band is. The easier thing is to write complex, long stuff. But its brilliant when you can still be complex, but get the idea across in a way that the song is immediately gratifying without losing its integrity. IMO, of course.
-
I have no issues with long songs, but only if the song calls for it. A few examples:
Songs like The Great Debate and The Count of Tuscany, which are long(er) songs, feel like a journey to me. There's a story being told, and I'm not even talking about the lyrics, the music flows in a way that I really enjoy and have no problems listening to the whole song. These songs I mentioned (and a lot others) don't feel like a 10+ minute song, they feel just right.
On the other hand, one of the biggest examples, for me, of a song that's unnecessarily long is The Best of Times. And while it doesn't have the typical "crazy instrumental wank prog section", it definitely feels like they stretched it to fit more of Mike's super personal lyrics and the song ultimately suffers from it. It has a great start (the Rush-like intro) and is solid for the first couple minutes, but then just loses its way and the only thing that saves it at the end is THAT solo.
-
But eventually Yes came back to albums with shorter, more "regular" songs, and Distance Over Time feels like DT kinda getting back into that. Remembering that it still comes down to the song. The instrumentals should serve the song, not the other way around.
Yeah, and I actually think it started earlier than that. To me, even though there are longer songs, I think the "course correction," if you want to call it that, started with ADTOE. Then, the songwriting is even more focused on DT12, save for Illumination Theory, and then we get d/t being even more focused. And you can say TA fits right into that evolution as well, but it is a different animal that has shorter songs for a different reason.
Agreed. I remember when ADTOE came out, when a lot of fans were happy to see four songs in the 10-13 minute range, none of which sounded overcooked or bloated. Had those songs been recorded years earlier, they might have mushroomed into 18-20 minute slogfests, but in 2012, it was clear that the band was focused on tightening up the songwriting. Like Orbert said, they went through that "the longer, the better" phase, and now it would seem to be over.
-
I did finally get the boxed set. Here’s my unboxing video...
https://youtu.be/Erlg0fWsOdk
-
To add to the discussion about song lengths, I don't think there is a "correct" song length at all. At this point in time, Petrucci could envision a song to be 13 or 6 minutes long and it will turn out different, but not in a way that the one is better than the other. It's just a different course.
Like, I agree that they applied a more concise approach over the years, which can be viewed as "wrong" in the way that lots of people complained about sections not being fleshed-out, just visited shortly and then left. Longer songs give more room to either let the whole thing breathe or fill it with jamming, adding a more hypnotic feel.
Neither is better than the other. They are merely different ways the piece can develop and in the end one can like it or prefer it to be different, but it's not a measure of quality.
Petrucci always tries to listen to all voices and to give everyone what they want, which is incredibly hard not to say impossible concerning DT's fanbase.
I think if you put faith in him and just take the final composition for what it is, analyzing it's length and structure in the context of what he was trying to do with it, instead of what could have been done with it, it's not only much more fair to JP, it opens a whole new world of enjoyment.
-
I'm starting to think that my Dream Theater "Life" has run it's course. Been listening since '94, and have made every show in my area that I could since 2001 (about 12 shows). I missed last weeks shows, and I could have ponied up and went. I've done the meet and greet 3 times, and even have a DT Tattoo. This new album is enjoyable, but it doesn't really move me, so to speak. Which again to me is indicative of my current DT state. I will always be a DT fan and enjoy the music, just not as passionately as I did for 20 plus years.
The highlights of the new album for me are PBD, Room 137, S2N and At Wit's End.
-
I did finally get the boxed set. Here’s my unboxing video...
https://youtu.be/Erlg0fWsOdk
Glad you finally got it bro! This was an ordeal :lol
-
Barstool Warrior is the hottest song on the album now on Spotify. It's nearing a million plays already in less than one and a half months from release, despite not being released as a single.
-
Barstool Warrior is the hottest song on the album now on Spotify. It's nearing a million plays already in less than one and a half months from release, despite not being released as a single.
Makes sense, it’s the best song.
-
D/T is in my top half for sure and is my favorite of the Mangini albums.
The only real disappointment for me is it's about 5 minutes away from being VERY high up on my list. If they had just added 1-2 minutes to the ending guitar solo of AWE and added 3-4 minutes to PBD they would have been great and the album would also. Instead they both end, for me, before they should.
-
Well, Pale Blue Dot already has the longest solo section of the album, adding 3-4 minutes unless it's a whole new verse / chorus or a different passage with lyrics wouldn't help the song.
-
I like how they cut the ending of AWE, it leaves room for the imagination, and when they get to play this live, a chance for JP to improv.
-
I don’t understand not liking something as much because it’s too short. I think the “leave you wanting more” thing is what they’re going for.
-
Well, Pale Blue Dot already has the longest solo section of the album, adding 3-4 minutes unless it's a whole new verse / chorus or a different passage with lyrics wouldn't help the song.
The vocals for PBD end 1:10 before the end of the track. I think the song is worthy of a 3-4 minute solo to end the track/album.
Not trying to sound like a complainer, I love the track and album, I just think they could have gone from very good to exceptional with a little longer ending solo. Same with AWE.
-
Well, Pale Blue Dot already has the longest solo section of the album, adding 3-4 minutes unless it's a whole new verse / chorus or a different passage with lyrics wouldn't help the song.
The vocals for PBD end 1:10 before the end of the track. I think the song is worthy of a 3-4 minute solo to end the track/album.
Not trying to sound like a complainer, I love the track and album, I just think they could have gone from very good to exceptional with a little longer ending solo. Same with AWE.
Yeah, but that is kind of the obvious way to end it. They’ve done that multiple times. I’m glad they are trying to do things differently.
-
At Wit's End really should have been the closing track. Not only is the song more emotionally climatic for me, but it makes no sense to me that there's a hidden track that isn't at the end of the album. :huh:
-
Can always count on DT for a fun live show, even with technical difficulties :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba5bEit62u4
-
I'm at work, I look up to the monitor that shows the number of calls received today.... it was 137.
;D
-
The number of mails received at my job is 135 at the moment. Damn. :lol
-
Fun fact, I think D/T is the only album besides BCSL where every track has a guitar solo. I don’t think anything JP does on Only a Matter of Time could be considered a solo.
-
I'm at work, I look up to the monitor that shows the number of calls received today.... it was 137.
;D
I was on the bus, buried in a book, and I only looked up for a moment, but when I did, we were driving by a building numbered 137.
I think DT fans are forever doomed to notice the number, hahaha.
-
I'm at work, I look up to the monitor that shows the number of calls received today.... it was 137.
;D
I was on the bus, buried in a book, and I only looked up for a moment, but when I did, we were driving by a building numbered 137.
I think DT fans are forever doomed to notice the number, hahaha.
Never ending number line :omg:
-
DoT probably has more radio friendly songs than most DT albums or maybe any of them for that matter. I realize DT gets a lot of internet radio play but what about local radio stations? I never listen to the radio, so does anyone know if some of the new songs are getting radio play at all?
-
DoT probably has more radio friendly songs than most DT albums or maybe any of them for that matter. I realize DT gets a lot of internet radio play but what about local radio stations? I never listen to the radio, so does anyone know if some of the new songs are getting radio play at all?
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993, which is a bummer since they have quite a few radio friendly songs since then.
I don't know if the label has much clout with mainstream radio since they mostly focus on prog/metal music. I wish insideoutmusic would push harder to get Distance Over Time on some hard rock stations around the country, but like I said I doubt they have enough clout to do so.
It seems an absolute crime that songs from this album (d/t) aren't getting airplay, Dream Theater deserves better than that! I know they would have a bigger following here in the states if they did. Plus they would sell out bigger venues.
It all has to do with contracts between radio stations and mainstream record companies. :tdwn
-
I don’t understand not liking something as much because it’s too short. I think the “leave you wanting more” thing is what they’re going for.
I was initially disappointed with the length (heh heh) of the songs but I ended up being ok with it.
-
PBD is the only song that makes me feel like I want more and it's not even a short song, the rest feel concise and complete to me.
-
I have no issue with the song lengths. The only thing that is lacking (to my personal criteria) is precision.
-
DoT probably has more radio friendly songs than most DT albums or maybe any of them for that matter. I realize DT gets a lot of internet radio play but what about local radio stations? I never listen to the radio, so does anyone know if some of the new songs are getting radio play at all?
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993, which is a bummer since they have quite a few radio friendly songs since then.
I don't know if the label has much clout with mainstream radio since they mostly focus on prog/metal music. I wish insideoutmusic would push harder to get Distance Over Time on some hard rock stations around the country, but like I said I doubt they have enough clout to do so.
It seems an absolute crime that songs from this album (d/t) aren't getting airplay, Dream Theater deserves better than that! I know they would have a bigger following here in the states if they did. Plus they would sell out bigger venues.
It all has to do with contracts between radio stations and mainstream record companies. :tdwn
I know what you mean, but I'm not sure how radio contracts work. Do they need a request from the record labels in order to play certain bands music? There has to be some program directors and DJ's out there who know about DT and want to get them into their playlists.
-
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56300118_10155946469442181_604217923346628608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=d1bb93a16d6b79b8b5ce009edafe232a&oe=5D483B87)
News of an exciting collaboration coming on Monday! Stay tuned… 🍻
we getting an official DT beer?
-
I'm guessing an alternate version of the song with guest vocalist. But what do I know?
-
I'm guessing an alternate version of the song with guest vocalist. But what do I know?
That ran through my mind too given Our New World, but the beer bottles emoji is what my guess is based on (and obviously the song title), plus it's kind of becoming a popular thing for bands to partner with a brewer and make something for the band. We shall find out Monday.
-
Maybe one of the members got too drunk and they’re cancelling the tour? :lol
-
What about new merch: A barstool with DT logo!
-
I'm guessing an alternate version of the song with guest vocalist. But what do I know?
That ran through my mind too given Our New World, but the beer bottles emoji is what my guess is based on (and obviously the song title), plus it's kind of becoming a popular thing for bands to partner with a brewer and make something for the band. We shall find out Monday.
Exactly what I thought.
-
JP is really into whisky lately. High end stuff. Looks like a DT
brand of hooch in the works.
-
JP is really into whisky lately. High end stuff. Looks like a DT
brand of hooch in the works.
my guess would be some kind of Gin, seeing as the male protagonist of the piece talks to it.
-
Still loving this record. Has unfolded very nicely. Currently loving those two "rock" numbers in the middle - R137 and S2N. The former has many subtle and tasteful variations around those beefy riffs, all locked down with that pummeling swing . Mad.
Have gotten much more into MM this time around. He is precise in style, but has a rolling feel and, my word, just BATTERS those tubs.
:metal
-
Just watched a decent quality vid of PBD...holy crap. They were
flawless and Mangini is super human. Unbelievable talent from
every member to play that song so spot on live. Stunning !!!
-
Just watched a decent quality vid of PBD...holy crap. They were
flawless and Mangini is super human. Unbelievable talent from
every member to play that song so spot on live. Stunning !!!
Link?
-
YouTube search PBD in St. Paul MN. A little hard to hear the bass drum
but decent footage and sound.
-
Super pumped to see them Wednesday in Red Bank, very close to home. My friend and I are looking for tickets for NYC Friday, and I am on the edge about making the drive to Philly for Saturday but kind of dependent if I can get a ticket for NYC. Although even if I do go to NJ and NYC, I may end up wanting to go to Philly too.
-
*snip*
-
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993....
KISW played As I Am when ToT came out.
-
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993....
KISW played As I Am when ToT came out.
News to me...
-
I swear that happened. I even remember being in the car when I heard it. I was not keeping up to date on DT news at that point in my life so that's how I found out about ToT being released.
-
Just watched a decent quality vid of PBD...holy crap. They were
flawless and Mangini is super human. Unbelievable talent from
every member to play that song so spot on live. Stunning !!!
Link?
I'm guessing it's this, from emtee's description.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojqBIiZTaDU
-
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993....
KISW played As I Am when ToT came out.
As I Am got airplay here in Chicago as well. With all the "controversy" surrounding Train of Thought (the stripped-down approach, more metal, less prog, whatever) I remember thinking that I guess I was okay with it if it meant DT finally scored a hit again, or at least got noticed.
-
DoT probably has more radio friendly songs than most DT albums or maybe any of them for that matter. I realize DT gets a lot of internet radio play but what about local radio stations? I never listen to the radio, so does anyone know if some of the new songs are getting radio play at all?
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993, which is a bummer since they have quite a few radio friendly songs since then.
I don't know if the label has much clout with mainstream radio since they mostly focus on prog/metal music. I wish insideoutmusic would push harder to get Distance Over Time on some hard rock stations around the country, but like I said I doubt they have enough clout to do so.
It seems an absolute crime that songs from this album (d/t) aren't getting airplay, Dream Theater deserves better than that! I know they would have a bigger following here in the states if they did. Plus they would sell out bigger venues.
It all has to do with contracts between radio stations and mainstream record companies. :tdwn
Hit radio stations aren't playing Dream Theater, in part because rock and metal are 'over' as a mainstream source of music. Like jazz before it, it will live on (obviously, and imo most of the best jazz came after it wasn't mainstream anymore) but is underground. New songs aren't going to be filled with riffs, or even people playing instruments for the most part. Mainstream music has been dumbed down more and more each decade, a band like Dream Theater is only going to expand minds, it's any wonder that The Mars Volta had a relatively big hit back in 2005/6, "The Widow" but the rest of their music sounds nothing like that song, but they kind of fit a particular sound that was popular in the rock spectrum at that time. The 'popular' music keeps getting simpler, less reliant on anyone playing an instrument, and more on the ability to push a few buttons in a studio, or have someone do it for you. Notice how the biggest rock songs from the 60s-00s the average song got simpler and simpler until we got to the point of no guitar solos and simple chords while someone sings over them and someone plays a beat. Today's youth in America is just fine with a rapper who can't sing and doesn't know where middle C is, who doesn't write music, just raps over a beat for 3 minutes. Maybe there's something that one could mistake for a chorus.
DT also never got airplay throughout the 2000s, and had many radio-friendly tunes during that era, where rock 'hits' were still a thing until late in the decade from my perspective. I did hear Constant Motion a few times on the NYC Q1043 classic rock station, and each time it was during the Eddie Trunk show on Friday nights. That's not really much exposure, outside of your general fan base.
Besides, what constitutes a 'hit' song? I read one time a couple years back that you pay the stations to play your single, the more you pay, the more they'll play. I'm sure there was something related to the record company, but record companies, for all the bad they did in trying to control artistic directions for bands and artists through the 20th Century they did take risks and give many types of acts a chance to succeed. Part of the problem is illegal downloading, and more recently "streaming" and things like Spotify and Apple Music. These things destroyed the music business for better or worse. Nowadays, a hit is a hit before it enters the audiences ears. The general crowd listening to what's popular now, is not seeking anything else out. Combined with a poor education system in this country, especially in regards to the arts and music, and how our society doesn't care about music like they used to a generation ago, and its easy to see why Dream Theater is not a mainstream act. I still think it's amazing that Pull Me Under was a hit, considering the sound and that grunge was coming in as the new big thing.
-
According to Setlist.fm, they played FITL 3 shows in a row, instead of alternating it with Paralyzed. Can anyone confirm?
Yesterday in Montreal, they indeed played Fall into the light.
at 25:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lDsAYboHjw
-
*snip*
I just realized I posted this here instead of the setlist thread. Sorry :eek
-
Anyone notice the acoustic intro to Untethered Angel is related to Pale Blue Dot? The re-occurring solo after the lines " who's out there, to save us from ourselves" could be played right over the intro to UA and it fits musically. Possible nugget?? :coolio
-
DoT probably has more radio friendly songs than most DT albums or maybe any of them for that matter. I realize DT gets a lot of internet radio play but what about local radio stations? I never listen to the radio, so does anyone know if some of the new songs are getting radio play at all?
Not around here (Seattle/Pacific Northwest area). I haven't heart DT on the radio since 1993, which is a bummer since they have quite a few radio friendly songs since then.
I don't know if the label has much clout with mainstream radio since they mostly focus on prog/metal music. I wish insideoutmusic would push harder to get Distance Over Time on some hard rock stations around the country, but like I said I doubt they have enough clout to do so.
It seems an absolute crime that songs from this album (d/t) aren't getting airplay, Dream Theater deserves better than that! I know they would have a bigger following here in the states if they did. Plus they would sell out bigger venues.
It all has to do with contracts between radio stations and mainstream record companies. :tdwn
Hit radio stations aren't playing Dream Theater, in part because rock and metal are 'over' as a mainstream source of music. Like jazz before it, it will live on (obviously, and imo most of the best jazz came after it wasn't mainstream anymore) but is underground. New songs aren't going to be filled with riffs, or even people playing instruments for the most part. Mainstream music has been dumbed down more and more each decade, a band like Dream Theater is only going to expand minds, it's any wonder that The Mars Volta had a relatively big hit back in 2005/6, "The Widow" but the rest of their music sounds nothing like that song, but they kind of fit a particular sound that was popular in the rock spectrum at that time. The 'popular' music keeps getting simpler, less reliant on anyone playing an instrument, and more on the ability to push a few buttons in a studio, or have someone do it for you. Notice how the biggest rock songs from the 60s-00s the average song got simpler and simpler until we got to the point of no guitar solos and simple chords while someone sings over them and someone plays a beat. Today's youth in America is just fine with a rapper who can't sing and doesn't know where middle C is, who doesn't write music, just raps over a beat for 3 minutes. Maybe there's something that one could mistake for a chorus.
DT also never got airplay throughout the 2000s, and had many radio-friendly tunes during that era, where rock 'hits' were still a thing until late in the decade from my perspective. I did hear Constant Motion a few times on the NYC Q1043 classic rock station, and each time it was during the Eddie Trunk show on Friday nights. That's not really much exposure, outside of your general fan base.
Besides, what constitutes a 'hit' song? I read one time a couple years back that you pay the stations to play your single, the more you pay, the more they'll play. I'm sure there was something related to the record company, but record companies, for all the bad they did in trying to control artistic directions for bands and artists through the 20th Century they did take risks and give many types of acts a chance to succeed. Part of the problem is illegal downloading, and more recently "streaming" and things like Spotify and Apple Music. These things destroyed the music business for better or worse. Nowadays, a hit is a hit before it enters the audiences ears. The general crowd listening to what's popular now, is not seeking anything else out. Combined with a poor education system in this country, especially in regards to the arts and music, and how our society doesn't care about music like they used to a generation ago, and its easy to see why Dream Theater is not a mainstream act. I still think it's amazing that Pull Me Under was a hit, considering the sound and that grunge was coming in as the new big thing.
Metal has been “over” many times and it always comes back, there will always be people who want to listen to aggressive loud guitar music and rock out, there just needs to be a new superstar band to do it. We’re still largely relying on old bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica to headline major metal festivals and that needs to change. Not sure who’s going to do it but someone will eventually come along.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1114972807782387713 (https://mobile.twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1114972807782387713)
Now Dream Theater has their own beer. Pretty cool. It seems to be the popular thing to do right now. I’ve never had any band beers except Iron Maiden’s, which was good. If it’s NY and order only, I won’t be able to ever have it since you can’t ship beer to MN, but still a cool opportunity.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1114972807782387713 (https://mobile.twitter.com/dreamtheaternet/status/1114972807782387713)
Now Dream Theater has their own beer. Pretty cool. It seems to be the popular thing to do right now. I’ve never had any band beers except Iron Maiden’s, which was good. If it’s NY and order only, I won’t be able to ever have it since you can’t ship beer to MN, but still a cool opportunity.
I am in Nevada and you can ship anything here! :biggrin:
-
Metal has been “over” many times and it always comes back, there will always be people who want to listen to aggressive loud guitar music and rock out, there just needs to be a new superstar band to do it. We’re still largely relying on old bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica to headline major metal festivals and that needs to change. Not sure who’s going to do it but someone will eventually come along.
I think when people say a music genre is "over" or "dead" they really mean it's no longer "popular". Nothing is ever "over" and seeing the crowds at the live rock/metal shows (especially in Europe and Japan) is testament to that.
We'd just be happier if mainstream music wasn't one-dimensional like it is nowadays and gave a more diversified landscape like back in the 80s when they'd play a bit of everything and have live interviews and performances from all across the board.
-
Been a few weeks now. I'll say It's probably my favorite JP
album. The solos and riffs are just amazing.
The opening riff in PBD is so addicting...I wish a whole song could be
built around it. Every time I hear the song I wish that riff kept going.
-
Anyone notice the acoustic intro to Untethered Angel is related to Pale Blue Dot? The re-occurring solo after the lines " who's out there, to save us from ourselves" could be played right over the intro to UA and it fits musically. Possible nugget?? :coolio
Ha! No way! I was thinking that exact thing tonight! I had just listened to the UA intro then went for a run and realized I was humming the PBD part in my head over the UA intro.
-
At 5:43 Mangini starts hitting the high hat faster and it's stuck in the left speaker - it's super annoying :D. Every time I hear it it's like scratching a chalkboard or something and I'm always relieved when he stops it a few seconds later. It also sounds louder on earbud headphones.
-
After almost 2 months in now. It still is very very strong. I would still put it in the Top 3 with Awake and SFAM. The band has never been tighter! I am glad to hear they are going to record the same way again. I really don't have anything insightful to say.
-
At 5:43 Mangini starts hitting the high hat faster and it's stuck in the left speaker - it's super annoying :D. Every time I hear it it's like scratching a chalkboard or something and I'm always relieved when he stops it a few seconds later. It also sounds louder on earbud headphones.
You're talking about AWE here? I love that part, so unorthodox and it is slightly offbeat that it really gets you offguard.
-
Yeah, AWE - forgot to mention it.
-
Two months in.. still play the whole thing every other day while working out! PBD did nothing for me at launch but it is growing on me. R137 still does nothing but its OK in the album flow i guess.
I feel that Mangini's serene happiness channels through this record and makes me keep coming back for more.
-
I know it's barely 2 months in, but I'm surprised by how well this album is aging for me. May be my favorite of the Mangini era thus far. I wouldn't place it in the upper echelon of DT albums personally, but for a group this deep into their career, it's a solid effort.
Initially I was feeling a bit lukewarm on S2N, but in hindsight I really enjoy the drum work towards the latter half of the track, and the only thing I wish is that it had a more grand and explosive pay off. PBD hasn't warmed up to me in the way I would have hoped, however. Some of the vocal lines I feel are delivered a bit awkwardly and as much as I love and admire the subject matter, I was really expecting something more introspective and meditative when I first saw the tracklist revealed.
Standout songs to me are still BW and AWE for sure, and stand up as some of DT's strongest songs of the past decade. I still think the overall flow of the album could have been better, as I feel it doesn't make the grandest of opening and closing statements, but in general the album is a really solid effort from one of my favorite bands of all time.
-
For me it's weird - there has been so many new releases lately, that d/t has been swamped by it and I rarely listen to it. I say it's weird because I like the album - I like all the songs, the stylistic choices behind it, basically everything about the album, and yet I never come back to it.
Today I have a longer trip than usual 'cause I have stuff to do around the city so I'll probably try and listen to it. Also because whenever it happens, it's a nice and pleasant musical ride from the beginning to the end so I'm puzzled myself as to why I never feel the urge to listen to it anytime I can.
-
It's been almost 2 months and it still feels fresh and new. Hope the feeling will last.
-
Having listened to a lot of Evergrey recently in preparation for their show and putting this album on my way back home, the vocals sounded almost buried in the mix.
-
I don't know if it's appropriate to say so, but anyway: When I listened to S2N this morning, I noticed that James' first cue (the spoken parts) reminded me of both Dave Mustaine in some way and the spoken sections of This Dying Soul as well, which I didn't really expect to happen again (for James to use this kind of effect again) And one other thing: I only tend to like one piece on the album and that is Pale Blue Dot.
-
I haven't played it nearly as much since I saw the live show. Doesn't mean I don't love it, but I have just been listening to various things.
I considered putting it #4 behind what I consider the big 3 (SFAM, I&W, SDOIT) but the production on Awake is just too amazing to be dethroned.
I have DOT solidly in at #5 behind the big 3 and awake.
This now makes 2 straight albums by DT though that surpassed a 90's album (FII) for me and I honestly never through that would happen again.
I have DOT and TA at 5 and 6 with FII at 7 now.
-
Sadly, the only piece on the album I always come back to is PBD. So many little details make the album as a whole an unpleasant listening experience to me, which I didn't really fully anticipate. I'm not saying anyone who loves the album (and they're many it seems to me) is wrong or anything like that.
-
At 5:43 Mangini starts hitting the high hat faster and it's stuck in the left speaker - it's super annoying :D. Every time I hear it it's like scratching a chalkboard or something and I'm always relieved when he stops it a few seconds later. It also sounds louder on earbud headphones.
Also hate that part in AWE- it sounds like a scratch in a CD. Like I literally thought there was something wrong in the stream/download. Maybe it’s super complex or showing off some technique I’m unaware of but it sounds awful to my ears.
But then again others have been pointing to it as one of their favorite moments, so, to each their own.
-
At 5:43 Mangini starts hitting the high hat faster and it's stuck in the left speaker - it's super annoying :D. Every time I hear it it's like scratching a chalkboard or something and I'm always relieved when he stops it a few seconds later. It also sounds louder on earbud headphones.
Also hate that part in AWE- it sounds like a scratch in a CD. Like I literally thought there was something wrong in the stream/download. Maybe it’s super complex or showing off some technique I’m unaware of but it sounds awful to my ears.
But then again others have been pointing to it as one of their favorite moments, so, to each their own.
not a scratch compromising the CD, he splits the hihat pattern between two hihats and one of them has that dark raw "scratch" sound.
-
I don't think it sounds that bad. It only lasts for 5 secs anyway. Not a big deal.
-
Haven't posted here in a long time, but new DT album compels me to. Just finished my first listen and so far I'm not particularly impressed by it. It's not bad but nothing really stood out to me as spectacular which is extremely rare for me in a DT album. The first 3 tracks of the album kinda bored me, they kinda felt like I've listened to them before and not in a good way. Just kinda dull. Barstool Warrior was decent but I expected more from it since I heard a lot of people say it was their favorite song on the album. Room 137, S2N and At Wits End is where I truly started to enjoy the album. They were memorable and fun to listen to. Out of Reach is easily my least favorite song. Pale Blue Dot I liked and Viper King so far is my favorite song but not sure if it counts since its a bonus track? Of course I do need to listen to it more to truly see how I feel about it but at the moment it ranks towards the bottom of my album rankings.
-
Haven't posted here in a long time, but new DT album compels me to. Just finished my first listen and so far I'm not particularly impressed by it. It's not bad but nothing really stood out to me as spectacular which is extremely rare for me in a DT album. The first 3 tracks of the album kinda bored me, they kinda felt like I've listened to them before and not in a good way. Just kinda dull. Barstool Warrior was decent but I expected more from it since I heard a lot of people say it was their favorite song on the album. Room 137, S2N and At Wits End is where I truly started to enjoy the album. They were memorable and fun to listen to. Out of Reach is easily my least favorite song. Pale Blue Dot I liked and Viper King so far is my favorite song but not sure if it counts since its a bonus track? Of course I do need to listen to it more to truly see how I feel about it but at the moment it ranks towards the bottom of my album rankings.
After one listen? Wow!
-
Happy that after 2 month in this album is still one of my all time favorite albums from Dream Theater. Not beating SFAM and SDOIT but actually just behind. Only so so song would be Unthered Angel for me but the rest is fantastic and varied songs. Barstool Warrior is still goosebump material after listening to it most likely 100 times. Petrucci said it was a great album to just put on in the car and blast away with, I think he got it!
Sometimes on Spotify after Viper King it will choose a new random song that would fit whatever was playing before and it takes something like The Looking Glass. If I wasn't sure how bad DT12 sounds compared to D/T I think that ones makes it crystal clear.
-
Of course I do need to listen to it more to truly see how I feel about it but at the moment it ranks towards the bottom of my album rankings.
After one listen? Wow!
He did say "at the moment" though. :P
-
Untethered Angel has grown on me a ton. Enjoyed it at first. Love it now. It is a riff goldmine.
-
It happened again: I look up casually at work and I see the number of calls received this day so far. 137. It's the second time it happens already :lol
-
It happened again: I look up casually at work and I see the number of calls received this day so far. 137. It's the second time it happens already :lol
OMG nuggetz! :rollin
-
Speaking of nuggets:
Today, I was finally able to get Distance Over Time on CD - the digipack edition. Looking at the artwork for "Untethered Angel", I noticed that the picture hanging on the wall (next to the window in the room) is exactly the same as the "The Answer Lies Within" artwork in the Octavarium booklet.
Sorry if it's already been pointed out - I was curious about it, and wondering whether there's any meaning behind Syme re-using that image. Maybe something to do with the lyrics of both songs?
-
Speaking of nuggets:
Today, I was finally able to get Distance Over Time on CD - the digipack edition. Looking at the artwork for "Untethered Angel", I noticed that the picture hanging on the wall (next to the window in the room) is exactly the same as the "The Answer Lies Within" artwork in the Octavarium booklet.
Sorry if it's already been pointed out - I was curious about it, and wondering whether there's any meaning behind Syme re-using that image. Maybe something to do with the lyrics of both songs?
Given Syme's prior work, he probably didn't care to find a new image :lol
-
Hard to say whether it is a cool nugget or just laziness he didn't think anyone would spot. :lol I'll give him the benefit of the doubt unless we learn otherwise. So...cool nugget!
-
Speaking of nuggets:
Today, I was finally able to get Distance Over Time on CD - the digipack edition. Looking at the artwork for "Untethered Angel", I noticed that the picture hanging on the wall (next to the window in the room) is exactly the same as the "The Answer Lies Within" artwork in the Octavarium booklet.
Sorry if it's already been pointed out - I was curious about it, and wondering whether there's any meaning behind Syme re-using that image. Maybe something to do with the lyrics of both songs?
Nice! I first looked at the artwork release with the single and I didn't see the picture. You have to look at the full image from the album. I like it! cool nugget.
-
Speaking of nuggets:
Today, I was finally able to get Distance Over Time on CD - the digipack edition. Looking at the artwork for "Untethered Angel", I noticed that the picture hanging on the wall (next to the window in the room) is exactly the same as the "The Answer Lies Within" artwork in the Octavarium booklet.
Sorry if it's already been pointed out - I was curious about it, and wondering whether there's any meaning behind Syme re-using that image. Maybe something to do with the lyrics of both songs?
Given how I put together the DoT cover with a simple Google search of "robot hand holding skull", I'll chalk it up to Syme's habitual laziness.:lol
-
Speaking of nuggets:
Today, I was finally able to get Distance Over Time on CD - the digipack edition. Looking at the artwork for "Untethered Angel", I noticed that the picture hanging on the wall (next to the window in the room) is exactly the same as the "The Answer Lies Within" artwork in the Octavarium booklet.
Sorry if it's already been pointed out - I was curious about it, and wondering whether there's any meaning behind Syme re-using that image. Maybe something to do with the lyrics of both songs?
Given Syme's prior work, he probably didn't care to find a new image :lol
Whenever I see Syme's work I get a mental image that he random clicks on photos on a folder labeled "Cover Art lolz" on his desktop and then pastes parts of them together.
-
I just checked, and the lyrics to both songs feature the word "within" and the phrase "don't be afraid". Maybe he (Syme) thought the songs were somewhat connected.
-
I noticed the dominoes from the Octavarium booklet instantly, and I thought they were there as an easter egg, maybe also because both songs have similar lyrical themes.
Now, about D/T, I feel weird about it. Once the brand new feeling ran away, I have barely listened to it, except once I changed the songs order for something that made more sense (to me). The tracks I listen the most are At Wit's End (love how Proggy it is) and Out Of Reach, the others, pretty much never.
It's a good album for an easy listening, to jam to, if that makes sense. But other than, I don't think I'll find a reason to came back to it continuously, like I do with ADTOE, TA, I&W or Awake, even DT12 and WDADU.
Also, I feel it's some kind of "this is who we are" album, or what DT12 tried to be, and for that reason, there's not a "I love THIS about this album" sensation, like, let's say, the ambience of Awake, the happy vibe of I&W, the funkiness of FII, or even the heaviness of TOT.
I guess I can summarize it as: I'm happy it exists, but I could live without it.
I wonder if someone else feels the same.
-
There's also the (probably) co-incidence of both These Walls and Untethered Angel "falling into darkness". :justjen
-
There's also the (probably) co-incidence of both These Walls and Untethered Angel "falling into darkness". :justjen
A better DTF historian than me might know the specific post, but long ago someone posted a word map of DT lyrics, and light and dark were among the most prominent.
-
It's a good album for an easy listening, to jam to, if that makes sense. But other than, I don't think I'll find a reason to came back to it continuously, like I do with ADTOE, TA, I&W or Awake, even DT12 and WDADU.
Also, I feel it's some kind of "this is who we are" album.....
I guess I can summarize it as: I'm happy it exists, but I could live without it.
I wonder if someone else feels the same.
I don't feel the same about everything in this post, but I wanted to touch on it. If it is a statement of "this is who we are, and this is the album we wanted to make, and we loved making it and we feel stronger than ever" than I am exceedingly happy with it, even if I don't love it myself. I equate it with DT12. I enjoy all the songs to varying degrees, but at the same time, none of them resonate with me 10 seconds after the fade out.
-
Also, I feel it's some kind of "this is who we are" album, or what DT12 tried to be, and for that reason, there's not a "I love THIS about this album" sensation, like, let's say, the ambience of Awake, the happy vibe of I&W, the funkiness of FII, or even the heaviness of TOT.
I guess I can summarize it as: I'm happy it exists, but I could live without it.
I wonder if someone else feels the same.
I don't feel the same way at all. I think DoT is a "return to form" album following a "this is who we aren't" album.
-
A better DTF historian than me might know the specific post, but long ago someone posted a word map of DT lyrics, and light and dark were among the most prominent.
Last October, the great noxon posted this one here, and on DTW's Facebook page:
- https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52809.msg2483390#msg2483390
- https://www.facebook.com/TheDreamTheaterWorld/photos/a.977563095652365/2259900554085273
(https://scontent.frel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44213896_2259900567418605_3900885226045308928_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.frel1-1.fna&oh=f9e57520be97642eeaca6e8a20940528&oe=5D63BD50)
Maybe that's the one you're thinking of.
-
Also, I feel it's some kind of "this is who we are" album, or what DT12 tried to be, and for that reason, there's not a "I love THIS about this album" sensation, like, let's say, the ambience of Awake, the happy vibe of I&W, the funkiness of FII, or even the heaviness of TOT.
I guess I can summarize it as: I'm happy it exists, but I could live without it.
I wonder if someone else feels the same.
I don't feel the same way at all. I think DoT is a "return to form" album following a "this is who we aren't" album.
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
-
"Also, I feel it's some kind of "this is who we are" album, or what DT12 tried to be"
Personally I had this notion from the very first songs that the band released.
Particularly this album is a mix of what DT12 would like for them to be, in terms of success and what the fans really where expecting.
DoT is both a new exploration for Dream Theater's musical territory and an answer to the call of fans that wanted something heavier and more raw.
Everyone has their own tastes and personalities that they will judge if they like the songs or maybe if the album is already considered a classic.
I'll be honest this album and TA just can't stick with me..DoT has the production qualities that I wished DT12 had, and the songs seem more focused but they lack personality and the artistic vision of what this album is about..
-
I don't feel the same way at all. I think DoT is a "return to form" album following a "this is who we aren't" album.
That's pretty harsh. If anything, The Astonishing *is* who they are, since it showcases every aspect of their abilities and doesn't lean obviously into one style... other than prog-style.
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
I'm a fan and The Astonishing is exactly what I wanted.
-
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
I'm a fan and The Astonishing is exactly what I wanted.
The Astonishing is my favorite but a lot of fans were really vocal about it and to the band it must have seemed that the fans did not like it.
-
I'm a fan and The Astonishing is exactly what I wanted.
I can't imagine myself thinking "I want DT to release an album like TA..." but at that point in their career I am glad they did.
-
I think I've said this before, but I really respect DT for taking a big chance with The Astonishing, despite the album missing the mark on every level for me!
D/T is better on every level. Everything from songwriting to production. First DT album in years with any real staying power for me.
-
This could be a possible nugget. The front of the cd cover (with bonus track version) is glossy and the back side is matte, just like the JP Majesty Monarchy 2017/2018 guitar. The front of the guitar being glossy, while the back of the neck is flat/matte finish. Hmm, I dunno. :justjen
-
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
This whole idea of "fan service" is a strange one. Before The Astonishing, there were some fans crying out for another concept album a la SFAM. We got The Astonishing. Those fans got their concept album. A concept album that went far far deeper than SFAM in terms of fleshing out the characters and giving them lives, a place to live, etc. And yet it seems many were still unhappy. You can't please everyone.
D/T is aging very well for me. I love The Astonishing and will defend its merits and worth against all opposers until the day I shuffle off this mortal coil, but D/T 100% tops it. My only minor complaint about D/T is the way At Wit's End ends, with the fadeout and "easter egg". We got a bit less of a song than the initial pre-release time suggested. That's all.
-
There's also the (probably) co-incidence of both These Walls and Untethered Angel "falling into darkness". :justjen
A better DTF historian than me might know the specific post, but long ago someone posted a word map of DT lyrics, and light and dark were among the most prominent.
That one line in Surrounded accounted for a solid 12% of all uses.
*some numbers made up
-
DT and Distance Over Time have been nominated for best album cover, best international band and album of the year for Prog Magazine's Progressive music awards. You can vote here: https://www.loudersound.com/features/vote-now-in-the-2019-progressive-music-awards
-
Here is a spooky coincidence. I asked my two kids to choose a random number between 136 and 138 and they both chose 137! WTF?
-
Here is a spooky coincidence. I asked my two kids to choose a random number between 136 and 138 and they both chose 137! WTF?
Whoa Graham - that's deep!
:rollin
-
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
That's always the struggle for any successful act. The guys in DT aren't stupid. They know, instinctively, what everyone wants from them. But if they only did that, they'd be bored out of their minds. But venturing into new territory comes with a risk, and I think The Astonishing showed that. A ton of push back.
I view Distance Over Time very much the way I view Fates Warning's Theories of Flight. The records are both the sum of three decades-plus of experience and creativity, plus some new nuances, put through a blender of their biggest commercial successes. The result is something new, inspiring, but distinctly familiar at the same time, and really resets the template of what each of the bands is.
Extremely well-executed records that have a beautiful balance of stylistic hallmarks from across the years, and some new flavors. I do expect the next albums from both those bands to follow a similar trend, but perhaps expand a bit more, depending on the interests of the band members.
At any rate, I think Distance Over Time is a brilliant album, and the absolute right move after The Astonishing.
-
Out of reach came on today when I was playing songs from my phone on shuffle. It's such a beautiful song, it grew to be one of my favorites on the album.
-
Out Of Reach has also grown into one of my favourites overv time.
Still loving the album as a whole.
Room 137 is another that grew and grew. The section after the lead from just before the 3 minute mark to just before 3.30 is cracking.
-
I don't feel the same way at all. I think DoT is a "return to form" album following a "this is who we aren't" album.
That's pretty harsh. If anything, The Astonishing *is* who they are, since it showcases every aspect of their abilities and doesn't lean obviously into one style... other than prog-style.
I don't think it's harsh at all. Of course it sounds like DT, but it sounds like DT trying to be like Pink Floyd or Rush. That's not who they are. Different styles is one thing. Going down a different path altogether with concept and format is something else. They basically drifted away from what they're well known for, progressive metal.
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
I'm a fan and The Astonishing is exactly what I wanted.
That's not really the point. It's what they wanted to do regardless if the fans wanted it or not.
-
I don't think TA sounds anything like PF or Rush. To me it sounded more like them being a kind of TSO/Les Miserables hybrid. I actually think I'm going to like the album a lot more as time goes on, it's just a lot to digest. I still think some songs don't sound finished, but I really dig the concept.
-
I don't think TA sounds anything like PF or Rush. To me it sounded more like them being a kind of TSO/Les Miserables hybrid. I actually think I'm going to like the album a lot more as time goes on, it's just a lot to digest. I still think some songs don't sound finished, but I really dig the concept.
Interesting point.
I agree about the concept, I just really wish the lyrics were up to it.
-
I'm feeling more like a "this is who the fans want us to be" after a "this is what we want to do no matter what the fans want".....
That's always the struggle for any successful act. The guys in DT aren't stupid. They know, instinctively, what everyone wants from them. But if they only did that, they'd be bored out of their minds. But venturing into new territory comes with a risk, and I think The Astonishing showed that. A ton of push back.
I view Distance Over Time very much the way I view Fates Warning's Theories of Flight. The records are both the sum of three decades-plus of experience and creativity, plus some new nuances, put through a blender of their biggest commercial successes. The result is something new, inspiring, but distinctly familiar at the same time, and really resets the template of what each of the bands is.
Extremely well-executed records that have a beautiful balance of stylistic hallmarks from across the years, and some new flavors. I do expect the next albums from both those bands to follow a similar trend, but perhaps expand a bit more, depending on the interests of the band members.
At any rate, I think Distance Over Time is a brilliant album, and the absolute right move after The Astonishing.
All of this.
-
I think JP's solo in Barstool Warrior may be one of his finest moments ever. I never thought he'd be able to top the solos in Voices or Octavarium, but he may just have done it.
-
Indeed! For me it's in the league of UAGM solo. Very tasty
-
I think JP's solo in Barstool Warrior may be one of his finest moments ever. I never thought he'd be able to top the solos in Voices or Octavarium, but he may just have done it.
Mostly agree, but I still hold The Inevitable Summer solo from ACOS in higher regard. :hefdaddy
-
JP just has too many greater ones for me to say it is one of his best, but that solo in Barstool Warrior is definitely pretty sweet. :coolio
-
I love JP's solos on the new album. They sound fantastic.
-
The thing with JP is that he has SO MANY perfect guitar solos, that it’s impossible to pick a favorite, not even a top 5, at least for me.
-
JP's guitar tone on the new album is incredible as well. I don't consciously keep track of this stuff, but it's got to be one of the best guitar tones I've ever heard.
-
I totally agree.
-
JP's guitar tone on the new album is incredible as well. I don't consciously keep track of this stuff, but it's got to be one of the best guitar tones I've ever heard.
That struck me as well. Agreed.
-
Saw the guys at download festival in the UK last night. Great stuff, the new songs work really well live having such great riffs and whatnot. Petrucci was excellent, amazing tone and pretty much flawless playing throughout!
-
Saw the guys at download festival in the UK last night. Great stuff, the new songs work really well live having such great riffs and whatnot. Petrucci was excellent, amazing tone and pretty much flawless playing throughout!
Cool, how big was the audience?
-
Saw the guys at download festival in the UK last night. Great stuff, the new songs work really well live having such great riffs and whatnot. Petrucci was excellent, amazing tone and pretty much flawless playing throughout!
Cool, how big was the audience?
Oh god, that's hard to say haha!! They played the second stage between Anthrax and Slayer and it was completely packed that's for sure!
-
I think JP's solo in Barstool Warrior may be one of his finest moments ever. I never thought he'd be able to top the solos in Voices or Octavarium, but he may just have done it.
Just got through hearing BW and it donned on me that what makes JP's solo so awesome is JR's accompaniment in the background. The keys are absolutely epic also. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
-
This album is aging like wine for me, I'm still revisiting it at least once a week at this point, after the initial run of several times daily for the first couple of month.
-
Saw the guys at download festival in the UK last night. Great stuff, the new songs work really well live having such great riffs and whatnot. Petrucci was excellent, amazing tone and pretty much flawless playing throughout!
Cool, how big was the audience?
Oh god, that's hard to say haha!! They played the second stage between Anthrax and Slayer and it was completely packed that's for sure!
How did they go down between Anthrax and Slayer, thought it was a tough spot to put them in. I know DT can go pretty heavy when they want to but still felt it was a strange place to put them.
-
This album is aging like wine for me, I'm still revisiting it at least once a week at this point, after the initial run of several times daily for the first couple of month.
Still on constant rotation in the car and still not one song that I ever skip. I even enjoy Viper King a lot now where I initially felt it was out of place and shouldn’t be on there. I initially deleted it from my iPhone version of the album but, having the cd on in the car all the time, I’ve grown to appreciate it.
-
I'm not listening to the first two songs much anymore, but the rest is still getting regular rotation with me.
-
After another listen, it is holding up well, though I still rank it below ADToE out of the last 4. AWE is a stellar song, and would be a highlight on any DT album. That song deserves live treatment on all current tours. PBD is a disappointment to me. I don't consider songs disappointments often. If I don't like a song, I don't like it. If my expectations were out of whack, I try not to let it color my opinions. But for whatever reason I feel like this song has untapped potential.
-
After another listen, it is holding up well, though I still rank it below ADToE out of the last 4. AWE is a stellar song, and would be a highlight on any DT album. That song deserves live treatment on all current tours. PBD is a disappointment to me. I don't consider songs disappointments often. If I don't like a song, I don't like it. If my expectations were out of whack, I try not to let it color my opinions. But for whatever reason I feel like this song has untapped potential.
I know what you mean. I like Pale Blue Dot, but I don't love it, and also feel like it could have been so much better had the focus been more on melody rather than making it all crazy with the time signatures and whatnot. At Wit's End is like a million times better, for sure. :tup :tup
-
After another listen, it is holding up well, though I still rank it below ADToE out of the last 4. AWE is a stellar song, and would be a highlight on any DT album. That song deserves live treatment on all current tours. PBD is a disappointment to me. I don't consider songs disappointments often. If I don't like a song, I don't like it. If my expectations were out of whack, I try not to let it color my opinions. But for whatever reason I feel like this song has untapped potential.
I know what you mean. I like Pale Blue Dot, but I don't love it, and also feel like it could have been so much better had the focus been more on melody rather than making it all crazy with the time signatures and whatnot. At Wit's End is like a million times better, for sure. :tup :tup
But, that's why PBD is the way it is. It's meant to be.
-
I like how Pale blue dot is subtle and abstract melodically. The melody doesn't jump out, but it's still there. The melodies on At wit's end sound a bit predictable and sometimes too simple for me to get into them.
-
Bar stool Warrior as a song and the Solo it self is really a stand out but I can't say it is the best even in the album.
I am trying to learn that song and it kicked my ass!
-
At First, PBD was ok. It had some interesting sounds. But now, after time and getting to know the song well, when it comes up on a random play, I am cranking it and enjoying it all! :metal
-
I liked it at first, but the odd 19 time signature just made it seem to random and wanky at times. But then I heard JP explain how he counts it (4 4's and then a 3 the fifth time through so it is unresolved), and it clicked for me and makes total sense. And I love the contemplative nature of the subject matter, so there's that too. Really fun song. I enjoy it a lot.
-
I definitely love AWE more than PBD and initially felt that same "where's the rest?" for PBD. Like it was missing something and that kind of made me put it lower in my song rankings for the album. Then I saw it live, twice, and I really enjoy it a lot more now. Still would put AWE over it, but it no longer has the feeling of missing something.
-
I liked it at first, but the odd 19 time signature just made it seem to random and wanky at times. But then I heard JP explain how he counts it (4 4's and then a 3 the fifth time through so it is unresolved), and it clicked for me and makes total sense. And I love the contemplative nature of the subject matter, so there's that too. Really fun song. I enjoy it a lot.
I get that, but even just reading that makes me think of the song as more of a mathematical exercise than anything else, instrumentally speaking that is, since I do like the vocal melodies a lot. It's like The Dance of Eternity but with some vocals.
But, that's why PBD is the way it is. It's meant to be.
I understand that, but DT being as technical as they can be is not what I love the most about them.
-
I liked it at first, but the odd 19 time signature just made it seem to random and wanky at times. But then I heard JP explain how he counts it (4 4's and then a 3 the fifth time through so it is unresolved), and it clicked for me and makes total sense. And I love the contemplative nature of the subject matter, so there's that too. Really fun song. I enjoy it a lot.
I get that, but even just reading that makes me think of the song as more of a mathematical exercise than anything else, instrumentally speaking that is, since I do like the vocal melodies a lot. It's like The Dance of Eternity but with some vocals.
I don't really disagree with that description. But I also don't think that is a bad thing at all. IMO, it totally works.
-
It is a bit DoE with vocals. I love it.
-
I will eventually come back and make a lengthier post of my thoughts, but it's worth saying, since I've been a bit down on this record elsewhere on the forum:
My initial impressions of this album were quite negative. I really didn't like it at all and wound up neglecting it for a good while. I especially disliked Room 137, S2N and Pale Blue Dot.
Five or six listens in, and I'm finally starting to come around on it. I don't know where it's going to land, but at this point:
1. Fall into the Light (which I did not listen to prior to the album, honestly because Untethered Angel was such a disappointment at that time that I stopped paying attention) is maybe the best song here, particularly because of the instrumental break.
2. Still not crazy about S2N or R137, but I at least think they're decent songs. I do find it strange that S2N is such a favorite while Systematic Chaos is so hated. For all the claims that MP was trying to make DT into modern metal on SC and BCSL, R137 and S2N are WAY more modern metal than anything on either of those albums... yet they are generally liked while SC and BCSL aren't. Just something I find interesting.
3. I agree with those who say that At Wit's End should have been the album closer. The experimental outro is interesting, and in my opinion works quite well.
4. I do not like the production on this album. It is true that it is fairly clear, with each instrument being fairly distinguishable, but JR is too low in the mix, JP's guitar sound is too monotonically chunky (this is also true of DT12), and the thing is way, way too loud. I have to turn it a solid 10% below the volume I'd use for, say, the latest Neal Morse Band album. I wish they would stop with the heavy guitar sound and brickwalled production.
-
I like both Room 137 and S2N a lot, but I suspect both will eventually because songs I view as good, but rarely re-visit on their own, only really hearing them when listening to Distance over Time from start to finish.
I fully expect At Wit's End and Fall into the Light to hold up as major favorites for me in the long run. I haven't done a DT top 50 in quite a while (probably a year or two before The Astonishing came out), but I am sure both will end up in there, with Barstool Warrior having a puncher's chance to make it.
-
R137 and S2N have reached "skippable" status when I play the album star to finish. At least it's convenient for me they are back to back.
AWE and Fall into the Light would make my Top 50 easily, AWE maybe 20.
-
I had a brain cramp last night and totally forgot to mention Out of Reach, which I probably like about as much as Barstool Warrior. Love that one as well.
-
Viper King is still my favorite from this album, but Out Of Reach and pale Blue Dot have really jumped ahead of the pack. I think OOR might be my favorite ballad of theirs since Disappear. PBD was my least favorite song initially but I've really come to love how odd it sounds, mainly the chordal structures in the verses. I do wish it was extended a bit more and maybe an atmospheric bit added to signify the "vastness of space" or whatever, but I'm pretty happy with it. I think my least favorite song is actually Barstool Warrior, mainly because it reminds me too much of The Bigger Picture at spots.
-
Viper King would probably me my 5th favorite at this point. It's all kinds of fun, and I really like that they did a song that just effortlessly rocks without sounding like a technical show.
1a. Fall Into the Light
1b. At Wit's End
3. Barstool Warrior
4. Out of Reach
5. Viper King
6. Pale Blue Dot
7. Room 137
8. S2N
9. Untethered Angel
10. Paralyzed
-
Ooh, let me try it:
1. Pale blue dot
2. Paralyzed
3. Out of reach
4. S2N
5. Barstool warrior
6. Untethered angel
7. At wit's end
8. Room 137
9. Fall into the light
I have no idea where I would rank Viper king. :biggrin:
-
Hey, good to hear from some folks who share my FitL love and R137/S2N wariness.
I like Viper King a lot, more than a good half of the songs on the album at least, but I refuse to include it in an album ranking because it's not part of the album.
Very tentative ranking:
1. Fall Into the Light
2. Barstool Warrior
3. At Wit's End
4. Paralyzed
5. Untethered Angel
6. Pale Blue Dot
7. Out of Reach
8. S2N
9. Room 137
PBD and OoR are the two that I really don't know what to do with yet.
-
My ranking:
1. Viper King
2. Out Of Reach
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. Room 137
5. Fall Into The Light
6. At Wit's End
7. Paralyzed
8. S2N
9. Untethered Angel
10. Barstool Warrior
There's no song I dislike but UA and BW just fall below the others.
-
1. At Wit’s End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. S2N
5. Paralyzed
6. Out Of Reach
7. Fall Into The Light
8. Untethered Angel
9. Room 137
-
1. At Wit's End
2. Pale Blue Dot
3. Untethered Angel
4. Fall Into the Light
These top 4 are easy and clearly a level above the rest for me. After this, I find it a little more difficult to rank, because the songs are all fairly evenly matched. It's one of their most consistent albums - I don't dislike any of the songs. Even some of the albums I prefer overall to D/T have a song or two I don't care for that much.
5. Barstool Warrior
6. Paralyzed
7. S2N
8. Out of Reach
9. Room 137
10. Viper King
-
1. Room 137
2. Pale Blue Dot
3. At Wit's End
4. S2N
5. Paralyzed
6. Fall Into the Light
7. Barstool Warrior
8. Untethered Angel
9. Out of Reach
-
At Wit's End
Fall Into the Light
Paralyzed
Barstool Warrior
Out of Reach
Untethered Angel
Pale Blue Dot
Viper King
S2N
Room 137
-
Can't do a full ranking (it's impossible for me to say "this song is 4th best and this is 7th) but I listen to Pale Blue Dot and Barstool Warrior the most. Brilliant songs both of them.
-
It's hard to rank but:
PBD - I love this song more everytime and really turn it up.
AWE - Just so good.
S2N------------
Room 137 - any one of these 4 next
Paralyzed --
BW ----‐--------
UA
FItL
OoR
VK
I enjoy the ones at the bottom nearly as much as the others, but there really is no bottom for me.
-
1. At Wit's End
2. Untethered Angel
3. Viper King
4. Fall Into The Light
5. Barstool Warrior
6. Out Of Reach
7. Signal To Noise
8. Pale Blue Dot
9. Room 137
10. Paralysed
-
1. Barstool Warrior - just a perfect DT song with a classic 90s vibe in places. Some of Petrucci best lead/solo work ever.
2. At wits end - another amazing song, powerful but brings the riffs big time! Great solo at the end. Still don't like fade ours (in any song) though and it makes it sound unfinished.
3. Pale blue dot - So epic and so heavy at point, I love all of it but it leaves me wanting more/slightly unsatisfied! Wish it were 2 or 3 mins longer with another verse. Still awesome though!
4. Fall into the light - Riffs so hard at the start, and the break is both beautiful and unique for DT. Love the keyboard solo and the shreddy guitar/drums at the end too.
5. S2N - Groovy and fun as hell, love it. Love the key shred at the end. Sounds like it could be on FII.
6. Untethered Angel - Good song if a bit DT by numbers. Instrumental /solo is ace. Rest is good but not great.
7. Paralyzed - One of the better mainstream tracks of late. Really solid and good fun.
8. Room 137 - Heavy and something different. I dig it, but it's not something I gravitate towards.
9. Out of reach - yeah not a big fan of modern DT ballads (usually just overtly saccharine). I like the solo and the piano at the start, once the guitar kicks in proper it's a bit meh for me. Not bad though. I know even before hearing a note of this it would probably be my least favourite.
- Viper king - probably sit around 6/7 if I was to rank. Really good fun, great solo, vocals don't 100% fit the style however and sometimes work/sometimes do not
-
Alright, it has been long enough that I think it's safe to rank the songs again.
1) At Wits End
2) S2N
3) Vyper King
4) Pale Blue Dot
5) Paralyzed
6) Bartstool Warrior
7) Room 137
8) Untethered Angel
9) Out of Reach
10) Fall Into The Light
The only song I don't revisit, and I skip it every time is FITL. Barstool Warrior did not do anything for me at first, but it's grown on me a lot.
-
There's a CD/Bluray edition coming up for d/t
https://www.lasercd.com/cd/distance-over-time-cdblu-ray-preorder
-
My rankings would probably be:
Tier One: Untethered Angel, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End
Tier Two: Paralyzed, Fall into the Light, Pale Blue Dot
Tier Three: Room 137, Out of Reach
I think it's an awesome album with a mix that puts most other metal albums to shame. Seriously... It sounds so good!
-
Been back on DoT this week. Still loving it. UA is my least favourite but the rest is all pretty much equal for me.
The songs i was less enthusiastic about to start with have levelled up (S2N, OOR, R137) and the rest has stood up great.
The lyrics are really good. The vocal melodies are totally singable. Cracking record.
-
My rankings would probably be:
Tier One: Untethered Angel, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End
Tier Two: Paralyzed, Fall into the Light, Pale Blue Dot
Tier Three: Room 137, Out of Reach
I think it's an awesome album with a mix that puts most other metal albums to shame. Seriously... It sounds so good!
A big second to that... the mix/master is incredible in my opinion, it breathes so well! Sounds killer in my car system (Pioneer deck, Kappa tweets, and four Kappa 6x9s), punch without the rawmpt sound of over-punch and deep breathing, swelling bass (almost like the explosion effect).
PBD has really, really grown on me; it's my go-to to hype-up for my two weekly b-ball games (right behind FiTL and Paralyzed).
-
There's a CD/Bluray edition coming up for d/t
https://www.lasercd.com/cd/distance-over-time-cdblu-ray-preorder
I've ninja'd myself since the last couple of posts have been about the mix/master of the album. If you think the CD version of the mix was good, the BR is even better. I would recommend in getting this version and ripping the BR audio. It sounds even better.
-
It's way too early to determine this, but I feel like At Wit's End has a good chance of eventually entering the Pantheon of established all-time DT classics. Give it a few seasons of DT the League or whatever tournaments come in the future...if it can hold its own against the likes of ACOS, Metropolis, Octavarium, BAI and LTL, then it will earn its rightful place among the gods. But the reaction to the song so far suggests that it might be heading that way.
-
Good grief, I just lost my d/t cd! I went to a friend's to play music and when I was loading my guitar and amp back into my car afterwards, I left the CD with the cover on top of my car and forgot about it. It likely blew off onto the road or into a ditch somewhere about 15 miles away and probably destroyed. Hopefully, some passerby will find it and it will still work and cause them to become a DT fan. :lol
-
Good grief, I just lost my d/t cd! I went to a friend's to play music and when I was loading my guitar and amp back into my car afterwards, I left the CD with the cover on top of my car and forgot about it. It likely blew off onto the road or into a ditch somewhere about 15 miles away and probably destroyed. Hopefully, some passerby will find it and it will still work and cause them to become a DT fan. :lol
Oh no! :lol Well, luckily, CDs are relatively inexpensive. I "lost" mine too and had to replace it, but it was intentional. I found out literally the day of the concert on the first tour leg that a friend of my son's was a BIG JP fan, so I had JP sign my copy that night and gave it to my son's friend. Had to go buy a new one, but it was well worth it.
-
Wow, that's awesome you did that for him bosk! I bet he was pretty stoked, I know I would be..
-
And here's my........... 2112th post!!! This post is only relevant until my next post. I savor the moment. I HAVE ASSUMED CONTROL!! :metal :metal :metal
-
Congratulations!
Hold the Red Star proudly, high in hand!
-
Just listened to the album.... and once again it just flies by!
It's probably the "fastest" album to listen to, the easiest one, you put in on and bam, you're listening to Viper King and you're like "did an hour already pass by?" (I feel it most particularly at the end of S2N - "holy shit are we already unto one of the two final epics?")
It's not that the other albums are difficult to get through, it's always a pleasure to listen to them, but you can't "wing" some albums... you have to be in the mood for it, you just can't go "Eh, I have some spare time, guess I'll listen to Octavarium or The Astonishing". With d/t instead you put it on, enjoy it, and it's already finished.
-
Definitely an easy listen, I appreciate that each song is different and short, like you said don’t need to be in the frame of mind to listen to it.
-
I love they way the albums sounds, especailly the guitar sound. Also, I think James knocks it out of the park. My only issue is the lack of epics. At Wits End is an epic, but for me only barely (by DT's normal standard).
And just to clarify, I consider a DT epic as any song longer than 9 minutes.
But, man does this album have a lot of good songs! :metal
-
I personally consider AWE an epic by its own merits, in that it has all the bearings of your classic DT epic, regardless of length. I feel the same with Metropolis Pt. 1 and BAI.
On the flipside, there's songs like TMOLS and ANTR, which are certainly long enough, but just don't deliver the same experience.
I think that's why I enjoy AWE so much, it's concise and doesn't suffer from being overlong and drawn out, the way some DT songs tend to do.
-
Out of curiosity:
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
It strikes me that the album was designed as a cohesive unit ending with Pale Blue Dot, and that Viper King is an extra, standalone thing. To me, it only feels right to finish a listen to this album with Pale Blue Dot.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Because it's there!
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Yup, but if you are talking about how you internally interpret the albums ending, then sure I mentally know it's over at PBD, but when VK kicks on, I'm not turning it off.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Yup, but if you are talking about how you internally interpret the albums ending, then sure I mentally know it's over at PBD, but when VK kicks on, I'm not turning it off.
Here, here!
-
Where, where?
-
:lol
-
Out of curiosity:
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Yes, for the same reason that, when I listen to Moving Pictures, I listen to Vital Signs as the final track and, when I listen to Train of Thought, I listen to In the Name of God as the final track and, when I listen to The Number of the Beast, I listen to Hallowed Be Thy Name as the final track.
It strikes me that the album was designed as a cohesive unit ending with Pale Blue Dot, and that Viper King is an extra, standalone thing. To me, it only feels right to finish a listen to this album with Pale Blue Dot.
Please feel to think and do as you please in this regard.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Uhh, what is the source on this? It's listed as a bonus track. I have literally never heard of a listed bonus track being considered part of the album proper. Not every edition of the album even includes it!
I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Uhh, what is the source on this? It's listed as a bonus track. I have literally never heard of a listed bonus track being considered part of the album proper. Not every edition of the album even includes it!
I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
Well it is on the cd, sooo. It's part of the album to me, and I'm glad it's there! :metal
-
I just want to take a moment to appreciate how minimal JP was with guitar overdubs (Outside of "Fall into the light") on this album. It feels more intimate, and closer to what it would sound like in a live setting. There were many places on the album that easily could have had rhythm guitars dubbed in underneath a solo or lead, and without those, everything else shines brighter.
-
Uhh, what is the source on this? It's listed as a bonus track. I have literally never heard of a listed bonus track being considered part of the album proper. Not every edition of the album even includes it!
I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
Well it is on the cd, sooo. It's part of the album to me, and I'm glad it's there! :metal
I get that it's on (some versions of the) CD, and I don't mind that it's there. It's a good song. But I don't see how that means it's part of the album proper.
My CD of Haken's The Mountain contains alternate versions of two songs after the final song "Somebody." Are those part of the album? Am I meant to listen to those two alternate versions at the end every time I listen to the album? Have I been listening to the album wrong all along by turning it off without listening to the bonus tracks?
My CD of Nightwish's Oceanborn contains two songs that were not on the original release, plus three live versions of the album songs. Are those five tracks now magically part of the Oceanborn album by virtue of being on my particular CD? Am I listening to the album wrong when I only listen to the tracks that are actually on the album's original official tracklisting?
I'm just weirded out by what I perceive as a totally different treatment being given to Viper King by some in this thread than I have ever heard of or seen anyone give to anything else labeled explicitly as a bonus track.
-
My take on this is that if the "bonus tracks" are new songs, I consider them part of the album. If the bonus tracks are just live versions, acoustic versions or different versions of tracks from the same or previous albums, I just remove them from the digital album and never listen to them. To me, it's more about having the "ultimate" version of a song and sticking with that one, and that's why I don't, for the most part, listen to live albums, demo versions or alternate versions of songs I like. But that's something that I do, it doesn't have to be your way of doing things.
Speaking particularly about Viper King, even though it's a bonus track (because it's stylistically different than the rest of the songs on the album, but still fun and they wanted to include it anyway), I think it works perfectly as the album closer, like an encore would work on a live show.
Actually, if you think about it, 3 out of 4 MM era DT albums have a sort of "end credits" moment at the end:
- ADTOE has BAI as the epic closer, and BTS is the "extra" track, that bookends the album quite nicely.
- The self-titled has IT as the epic closer, then a few senconds of silence and the "end credits" once again with that piano + guitar tag at the end.
- Finally, D/T has the epic ending with PBD, and VK as a fun extra thing that works really well to loosen things up after a very serious and dark song.
(I could say something similar with TA, if you consider ONW as the closer of the album, and the last 2 tracks as the end credits scenes, but it's kind of a stretch).
-
VK is a classic B side, not part of the album experience but a song the band has that they want to get out. D/T ends with PBD.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Technically no, but I still include it
1. Untethered Angel
2. Paralyzed
3. Viper King
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Room 137
6. Signal to Noise
7. Fall Into the Light
8. Out of Reach
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. At Wit's End
(bold are the ones that differ from the actual track listing)
I think I've posted this before, but I figured I'd say it again since it's semi-related to the discussion.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Technically no, but I still include it
1. Untethered Angel
2. Paralyzed
3. Viper King
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Room 137
6. Signal to Noise
7. Fall Into the Light
8. Out of Reach
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. At Wit's End
(bold are the ones that differ from the actual track listing)
I think I've posted this before, but I figured I'd say it again since it's semi-related to the discussion.
This works really well too!
-
Out of curiosity:
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
It strikes me that the album was designed as a cohesive unit ending with Pale Blue Dot, and that Viper King is an extra, standalone thing. To me, it only feels right to finish a listen to this album with Pale Blue Dot.
For me, it depends on my mood. For instance, there are plenty of times that I will listen to BC&SL and stop after The Count of Tuscany, but at other times I will listen clear through To Tame a Land. I know there are some differences here because 1, it's a bonus disc and not on the same disc as the rest of the album and 2, they are covers and not songs originally written by DT, but I think it still somewhat applies.
In general I listen to Viper King as the last track even though it is a little out of harmony with the rest of the album. Mostly because I just like the song.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Uhh, what is the source on this?
My "source" is that it is listed on the back of the CD booklet as the final track, and when I play the album, it is the 10th track out of 10. That makes it, by definition, the "final track." I'm not sure where your disconnect is. Yeah, it's labeled as a "bonus track." So what? It's a bonus track on the album. It's not like droves of fans hunted down this mysterious, obscure bonus track on the Internet and randomly appended it to their track listings. It's on the album. Hence, people listen to it along with any other song on the album.
-
:lol
It feels like a loose encore to the album. I like it. A lot. Honestly, what I really like is what it represents to me...that that band was having a good time together in the studio. Enough to do something not only fun, but kind of cool IMO.
I take it as a good sign of where the band is.
-
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?
Pretty simple: Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.
Uhh, what is the source on this?
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King. That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.
I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
But that's a different issue than what you first asked about. You asked, "When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track?" If you intended a different question, then you should have asked a different question. Had you asked, "Do you consider Viper King to be part of the core album," you likely would have gotten different responses.
On that issue, I don't really care what label is slapped on it. If I thought it sucked I wouldn't listen to it, but I don't, and it's there, so I listen to it as part of the album.
-
My "source" is that it is listed on the back of the CD booklet as the final track, and when I play the album, it is the 10th track out of 10. That makes it, by definition, the "final track." I'm not sure where your disconnect is. Yeah, it's labeled as a "bonus track." So what? It's a bonus track on the album. It's not like droves of fans hunted down this mysterious, obscure bonus track on the Internet and randomly appended it to their track listings. It's on the album. Hence, people listen to it along with any other song on the album.
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King. That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.
So, again, the Haken album The Mountain includes two alternate versions of tracks as part of the album? The final track on that album is essentially a radio edit of another song on the album? And I'm some sort of freak for not listening through to that radio edit whenever I listen that album?
I guess I just don't understand this way of thinking. To me, an album is not "whatever happens to be on the CD," but a structured sequence of songs with a defined beginning and end. A CD release could contain the whole album and nothing but the album. But it could also contain the album, plus some extras that are not part of the album proper, but addenda to it. To me, the phrase "bonus track" literally means "this is not part of the album." It's like the bonus features on a Blu-Ray. The deleted scenes and the bloopers and the behind-the-scenes documentary on my Blu-Ray copy of Avengers: Endgame are not part of the movie Avengers: Endgame, irrespective of whether they were packaged on the same disc.
To me, it's very clear that Distance Over Time was created as a nine-song album. The experience of listening to Distance Over Time, as the band intended it, is the experience of listening to Untethered Angel through Pale Blue Dot. Viper King is a standalone thing that was given as a bonus extra. Basically the equivalent of a B-side for the post-vinyl era.
I don't have a problem if people like to listen to it right after the album, but it's just completely foreign to me that so many are treating it as though it's on the same level as Barstool Warrior or Out of Reach in terms of being a part of the album Distance Over Time, because as I see it the band has made it explicit that it is NOT part of that album.
I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
But that's a different issue than what you first asked about. You asked, "When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track?" If you intended a different question, then you should have asked a different question. Had you asked, "Do you consider Viper King to be part of the core album," you likely would have gotten different responses.
On that issue, I don't really care what label is slapped on it. If I thought it sucked I wouldn't listen to it, but I don't, and it's there, so I listen to it as part of the album.
This is fair. I guess maybe I'm a little more precious than some people about the experience of listening to an album. For me, I usually like to listen to *the album*, as designed, as a single experience, and stop listening, at least for a few minutes, when the album ends. To me, listening to an unrelated song uninterruptedly after an album would, I guess, feel weird in terms of breaking up my ability to take in the unified album experience. I suppose this may be more of a me thing and less of a common experience than I thought.
-
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King. That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.
Using this rule I’m good if VK is part of the album, cause I’m in the SDOIT is multiple songs for the same reason.
As a Spotify listener I generally dislike bonus tracks, because they’re on auto play with the rest of the album and don’t do much but alert me to switch tracks. Halen’s reissues with instrumentals are a good example.
-
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King. That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.
Radio edits, alternate versions, cover and live tracks stand out more as not belonging to the album. Viper King is a brand new song written along the other 9, so it's easier to just go with the flow and listen to it.
-
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King. That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.
So, again, the Haken album The Mountain includes two alternate versions of tracks as part of the album? The final track on that album is essentially a radio edit of another song on the album? And I'm some sort of freak for not listening through to that radio edit whenever I listen that album?
Despite your use of question marks, these sentences aren't questions. If you intended to ask questions about Haken, I don't have the answers because I know next to nothing about that band.
I guess I just don't understand this way of thinking. To me, an album is not "whatever happens to be on the CD," but a structured sequence of songs with a defined beginning and end. A CD release could contain the whole album and nothing but the album. But it could also contain the album, plus some extras that are not part of the album proper, but addenda to it. To me, the phrase "bonus track" literally means "this is not part of the album." It's like the bonus features on a Blu-Ray. The deleted scenes and the bloopers and the behind-the-scenes documentary on my Blu-Ray copy of Avengers: Endgame are not part of the movie Avengers: Endgame, irrespective of whether they were packaged on the same disc.
To me, it's very clear that Distance Over Time was created as a nine-song album. The experience of listening to Distance Over Time, as the band intended it, is the experience of listening to Untethered Angel through Pale Blue Dot. Viper King is a standalone thing that was given as a bonus extra. Basically the equivalent of a B-side for the post-vinyl era.
I don't have a problem if people like to listen to it right after the album, but it's just completely foreign to me that so many are treating it as though it's on the same level as Barstool Warrior or Out of Reach in terms of being a part of the album Distance Over Time, because as I see it the band has made it explicit that it is NOT part of that album.
I suppose this explanation (except for the third paragraph) is the only way for the "bonus track" label to have any significance, and I assume the band wouldn't have used the label if it wasn't meaningful in some way to them. However, for me, it's a meaningless label. What if it didn't have that label? Would your opinion be any different? What about Awake, which omitted Scarred on the cassette version (and maybe also the vinyl version?)? Was Scarred not part of the album? And yes, a non-concept album released as a single CD is simply a collection of songs. As for the third paragraph, I don't really know what you mean by "on the same level. I don't know how I'd rank the songs on DOT, but VK might very well be at the bottom (although I like it), but that wouldn't be because of the "bonus track" label.
This is fair. I guess maybe I'm a little more precious than some people. . . .
Eh?
-
pg1067 said everything that needs be said.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
-
425 is absolutely right and I don't really get why people are choosing this as their hill to die on. Sure, if you like VK as a closer, by all means listen to the CD front to back.
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album. 425 already gave examples of this and there are tons more.
Deep Purple In Rock has a bunch of studio chatter bonus tracks. They are most certainly not part of the album even though Studio Chat (2) is track number 11. It was recorded at the same time as Deep Purple In Rock but no, it is just a bonus.
:lol
It feels like a loose encore to the album. I like it. A lot. Honestly, what I really like is what it represents to me...that that band was having a good time together in the studio. Enough to do something not only fun, but kind of cool IMO.
I take it as a good sign of where the band is.
My view pretty much lines up with this. It's my least favorite track on DoT but it's still cool. A nice bonus to a great album
-
I don't really get why people are choosing this as their hill to die on.
I don't think anybody is doing that. But he for some reason thinks it's crazy for people to consider it part of the album, so we are explaining to him why we do. If he or you can't handle that, I'm not sure what to tell you.
-
425 is absolutely right
Except that these are opinions, so there is no "right" or "wrong."
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.
So...it's part of the improper album?
Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.
-
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.
So...it's part of the improper album?
Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.
What other explanation could there be? :huh: The literal meaning of a bonus track is that it's a song that isn't part of the album that's added onto a deluxe edition (ie, the "improper album" by definition). The intent of a bonus track only has one implication. If you don't care about the artist's intent then that's fine, but I think it's silly to act like the intent is in any way ambiguous.
-
In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
Awesome! I just watched it and although I love the song, I didn't think the video was all that engaging. However it did give some visual context to the story of the song, so it has some worth. I wondered why they didn't release this song as a single considering how great the chorus is. But I guess they finally did.
I hope it gets lots of views and gives the band some more exposure to new potential fans.
-
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper. I personally don't have issue with anyone who listens to it as such. Neither track really make for that grand of a closer so maybe that's largely why I'm not too invested in either side of this, but I do find the implications of it interesting.
For example, if Metropolis Pt. 2 were released alongside a "bonus track" in the vein of VK, would people be more or less willing to include it as part of the album? Considering it's so conceptual, a one-off bonus track that has little do to with the main album's concept would probably not be widely considered part of the overall album experience.
-
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper. I personally don't have issue with anyone who listens to it as such. Neither track really make for that grand of a closer so maybe that's largely why I'm not too invested in either side of this, but I do find the implications of it interesting.
For example, if Metropolis Pt. 2 were released alongside a "bonus track" in the vein of VK, would people be more or less willing to include it as part of the album? Considering it's so conceptual, a one-off bonus track that has little do to with the main album's concept would probably not be widely considered part of the overall album experience.
Ha if SfaM had a bonus track, and it was TGP, I’d argue it was part of the album! Guess it comes down to the quality of the song...
-
I have a feeling Viper King was always intended to be part of the album proper until, perhaps, the label asked for a bonus track. Had that not occurred, I think VK would have fit between Room 137 and S2N.
Just speculation.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.
Blue-ray version? What are you talking about?
-
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, this has nothing to do with it. To me, it is part of the album for one reason and one reason only: it is on the album. The strength or weakness of PBD, or any other song, is irrelevant.
And as an aside, I think PBD is a fine song, as a "closer" or otherwise.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.
Blue-ray version? What are you talking about?
Unless I'm losing my memory, the Box-set for the album included a Blue-Ray with visualization for every song.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.
Blue-ray version? What are you talking about?
Unless I'm losing my memory, the Box-set for the album included a Blue-Ray with visualization for every song.
Yup it did. And just looking at vids preview shot, i knew it was going to be the same visuals on the Blu-Ray and live.
The actual album closer is Pale Blue Dot, and Viper King is the end bonus fun song. It's like a "whew" we got through it, let's have fun type of song.
I don't really understand why it being a bonus track is a big deal. When you can just by the cd without Viper King. Or just push stop after Pale Blue Dot.
As of Now the album now is:
1. At Wit's End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. S2N
4. Pale Blue Dot
5. Room 137
6. Fall Into The Light
7. Untethered Angel
8. Out of Reach
9. Paralyzed
-
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.
So...it's part of the improper album?
Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.
What other explanation could there be? :huh: The literal meaning of a bonus track is that it's a song that isn't part of the album that's added onto a deluxe edition (ie, the "improper album" by definition). The intent of a bonus track only has one implication. If you don't care about the artist's intent then that's fine, but I think it's silly to act like the intent is in any way ambiguous.
I don't entirely disagree with this, and I did point out earlier that it's probably the only real way for the "bonus track" label to have any meaning. However, it's really odd to have done this right from the get go (normally "bonus tracks" show up on re-releases years later). In this case, one version of the album has 10 tracks, and the other has 9. Why is one "proper" and the other is...I don't know...something else. I recall seeing comments about some people specifically wanting the 9-song version and thinking that was really odd -- kinda like choosing to buy the 16 ounce bottle of nectar instead of the 20-ounce bottle that costs the same price. If there's some sort of cosmic cohesiveness that binds together the first 9 songs on the album that is lost by listening to VK, that's completely lost on me. In other words, while the notion of an "album proper" might be the only way for the "bonus track" label to have meaning, it strikes me as nothing but semantics and, therefore, meaningless.
In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.
I don't know to whom he was speaking, but if "you" means the fans in general, it didn't work for all of us. I have no "understanding" of the order or why PBD had to come last.
-
In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.
I don't know to whom he was speaking, but if "you" means the fans in general, it didn't work for all of us. I have no "understanding" of the order or why PBD had to come last.
Yeah, I think both Petrucci and Mangini have made comments along those lines. I don't get it either, other than to say that I think Untethered Angel sounds good as an album opener and PBD sounds good as the album closer, with VK sounding good as a...well, sort of "post-credits scene," much like ADTOE and DT12 do with Beneath the Surface and the "easter egg" tag at the end of Illumination Theory. All three albums have a big, climactic faux-ending, and then a nice "bonus" at the end. But, yeah, beyond that, I don't really understand the comments about the track order.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
"Cutting the anchor away."
> Show a picture of a moored boat.
Come on.
DT would be better served by showing footage of them playing. The odd lyric/animated video is fine, but now that's basically all we've had from them from D/T so far. Especially Barstool Warrior, which seems to be the "it" track from D/T, give it a proper release.
-
I recall seeing comments about some people specifically wanting the 9-song version and thinking that was really odd -- kinda like choosing to buy the 16 ounce bottle of nectar instead of the 20-ounce bottle that costs the same price.
I bought the "standard" 9 track CD, thinking if I wanted the "Bonus Track" I would just download it separately. Paraphrasing Steve McQueen in The Magnificent Seven: It made sense at the time. Then I got the CD, with no mention of VK on the disk, case, or liner notes. And then I put the CD in, and found out the CD had VK as Track 10. Now that is a bonus! Then on the forum I read that other people had the same experience. Was a CD with VK not included ever produced?
And I don't think anything about DT triggers me more than hearing Beneath the Surface is a "post-credits" scene or anything of the sort.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
"Cutting the anchor away."
> Show a picture of a moored boat.
Come on.
DT would be better served by showing footage of them playing. The odd lyric/animated video is fine, but now that's basically all we've had from them from D/T so far. Especially Barstool Warrior, which seems to be the "it" track from D/T, give it a proper release.
Are music videos still a big thing? I can't remember the last time I watched a music video that wasn't an animated video. It makes since, it's probably cheap to make and most people will listen to songs in the background and not even pay attention to the video.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
"Cutting the anchor away."
> Show a picture of a moored boat.
Come on.
DT would be better served by showing footage of them playing. The odd lyric/animated video is fine, but now that's basically all we've had from them from D/T so far. Especially Barstool Warrior, which seems to be the "it" track from D/T, give it a proper release.
Are music videos still a big thing? I can't remember the last time I watched a music video that wasn't an animated video. It makes since, it's probably cheap to make and most people will listen to songs in the background and not even pay attention to the video.
They are rare but still a thing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUhTHGR1Tk
-
I don't know if they are that rare. Within Temptation put out a couple videos for Resist, and they were neither animated nor just the band playing. From the lovely Sharon herself:
ON WITHIN TEMPTATION’S NEW MUSIC VIDEO FOR “SUPERNOVA” ALREADY HITTING 3 MILLION VIEWS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF MUSIC VIDEOS FOR MUSICIANS TODAY
I think it’s pretty important, because it defines who you are as a band. It’s an easy way to get an impression of a band, and music videos are easy to access. People go on the Internet to check out a band and get an idea of a band and see the music they are making. I think a lot of people make very basic videos, but we try to spend more time on videos and put a lot into them. It’s more than a simple video — it’s an expressive one with a story behind it. So, the videos that we’ve done so far for this album are pretty expensive. I think it’s a good way to promote your album, especially because you can’t rely on radio in all countries.
-
I don't know if they are that rare. Within Temptation put out a couple videos for Resist, and they were neither animated nor just the band playing.
I wonder if maybe the music industry (Rock and Metal labels specifically) put more importance on it in Europe than in North America. You could look up Nuclear Blast Records, or Napalm Records, and they both have plenty European bands all making really good and engaging music videos. But I rarely see that from North American bands. I don't know if it's because the Metal scene in Europe is bigger, maybe they're actually getting TV play, and people still watch TV, or something, but I definitely see more effort being put into music videos by European bands over North American ones.
-
Like so many other things, we have 1000 varieties of everything in the U.S., and instant access to it. If you make a video here, it will be out there with a million other videos viewable on a hundred different platforms and channels. Some people will see it. Yay. In Europe, there are only a handful of outlets, so a new video will be mainstream for a while and most people will see it. It's a better bang for the buck over there. That's my theory anyway.
-
Eh...Usually InsideOut is the one that usually does the lyric video animations.
The other labels are the ones that do videos, I'll see a couple lyric videos now and then from some bands, but not all.
-
Eh...Usually InsideOut is the one that usually does the lyric video animations.
Not to be critical, but do people actually watch these videos? I don't get the appeal.
-
Eh...Usually InsideOut is the one that usually does the lyric video animations.
Not to be critical, but do people actually watch these videos? I don't get the appeal.
Me neither, but lyric videos are less expensive to make, so I guess that’s another factor too.
-
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
"Cutting the anchor away."
> Show a picture of a moored boat.
Come on.
DT would be better served by showing footage of them playing. The odd lyric/animated video is fine, but now that's basically all we've had from them from D/T so far. Especially Barstool Warrior, which seems to be the "it" track from D/T, give it a proper release.
Are music videos still a big thing? I can't remember the last time I watched a music video that wasn't an animated video. It makes since, it's probably cheap to make and most people will listen to songs in the background and not even pay attention to the video.
"Scripted" music videos with acting and such aren't as common but filming a live performance or two and cutting a video is simple enough and easier than a lyric video, honestly. When I did my lyric video for This Is The Life back in the day it took forever and it wasn't even complicated. I would have much preferred to slice together a 12-camera performance video.
Take a look at Untethered Angel, that's a "performance" video, and much more interesting than watching an animated slideshow and way easier to put together.
-
On the topic of Untethered Angel, a video solely dedicated to JP and the guys grilling would make for more fascinating viewing than most of the videos they'd ever released. I would totally watch that.
-
JLB: …Between the tours we’re going to be doing after Europe we’re introducing new songs, so let’s play a couple of songs from the album that we haven’t played yet.
Source: https://downloadfestival.co.uk/news-features/interview-dream-theater-we-knew-we-wanted-to-do-a-heavier-album/
My money is on AWE and S2N :metal :metal :metal
-
Heck yeah now I’m hyped for the upcoming show. Less than 2 months :millahhhh :metal
-
And I don't think anything about DT triggers me more than hearing Beneath the Surface is a "post-credits" scene or anything of the sort.
??? Why?
-
And I don't think anything about DT triggers me more than hearing Beneath the Surface is a "post-credits" scene or anything of the sort.
??? Why?
and IIRC, JP himself called it either that or something to the effect during an interview during ADTOE's promo cycle, I may be wrong though.
-
Exactly
-
And I don't think anything about DT triggers me more than hearing Beneath the Surface is a "post-credits" scene or anything of the sort.
??? Why?
and IIRC, JP himself called it either that or something to the effect during an interview during ADTOE's promo cycle, I may be wrong though.
Yep, it came from JP's mouth.
-
Maybe I (unfairly?) feel like a descriptor such as that diminishes its worth and value.
-
Well, I don't hold BTS in very high regard anyway.
-
Maybe I (unfairly?) feel like a descriptor such as that diminishes its worth and value.
Well, JP doesn't feel that way, and he was the one that came up with that description, so I think your feelings may be misplaced. And, honestly, I've always felt that it is a pretty appropriate descriptor.
-
Right and as I said, i did not realize that was a sentiment initially posited by the band.
-
I was listening to Barstool Warrior the other day and I was really digging the solo, mood, and atmosphere before the "Promises made" part. Love that whole lyrical passage, but then it transitions into another section and kinda goes nowhere for me and I was just left feeling disappointed. It would have been cool if the song went:
*Epic, emotional guitar solo*
Promises made, crying in vain
All empty, never accepting the blame
And not letting go of the shame
A river of tears, as months turned to years
All wasted on someone not willing to change
Now only a shadow remains
*Return to the epic, emotional guitar solo for another minute or so, fade out, outro*
It was just another one of those musical moments that DT has done recently where the transitions can feel kinda jarring or they never return to a really cool part. It happens in S2N for me as well:
Shocking truth, climate change
Floods and fires, hurricanes
Overdose, suicide
Innocent die
Fear and race, endless lies
Sex and faith, terrorize
Drugs and guns taking lives
Innocent die
*proggy instrumental section for a minute that leads into the chorus*
It kinda ruins the momentum that the song had going for it, for me at least. I guess I wish it went:
Drugs and guns taking lives
Innocent Die
*return to the main riff of the song, with perhaps a little bit of variation then into the chorus*
I know, the band has it that way because that's how they wanted it to be and that's the way they heard the song. It just holds me back from really loving the songs as a whole, but rather only getting attached to certain parts of the song.
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
I wouldn't object actually (Ravenskill is one of these pieces on TA that I like more than some others)
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
I wouldn't object actually (Ravenskill is one of these pieces on TA that I like more than some others)
Ravenskill rocks! and..... :rollin
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
Would be fun to have TA pt2 but it’s just an epic on a larger album, 10-20 minutes. Doesn’t even need a story, just revisit that albums sound in a condensed way.
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
Would be fun to have TA pt2 but it’s just an epic on a larger album, 10-20 minutes. Doesn’t even need a story, just revisit that albums sound in a condensed way.
I support this idea, sort of a reverse Metropolis thing where the standalone epic comes second instead of first.
And just for nerdiness sake, Metropolis part 1 goes into Metropolis part 2 8.1 times, so if DT were to keep the same ratio then TA part 2 would be a 16:07 epic. Which I think would be awesome! :metal
-
Anybody heard the instrumental version of the album? It's on YouTube at
https://youtu.be/VsfmWudh-EU (https://youtu.be/VsfmWudh-EU)
It's neat hearing it without vocals. Although I think LaBrie did a good job on this album, hearing the album instrumentally allows you to focus on the music and hear things you didn't notice before.
Cool stuff.
-
Haken included the instrumental versions on their last two albums. It's interesting the 1st time, but the novelty wears off quick. I don't find myself going back for multiple listens.
-
There was another post specifically about S2N instrumental. It’s cool to listen to it everyone once in a while.
-
I'm about to toss Room 137 in the trash with Enigma Machine. It seems to be the only song from this album that pops up on shuffle, and I was never that big on it to begin with. Same with Three Days. HAUH. HAUH. HAUH.
-
I still shake my head at one of the most badass riffs and musical moments DT has ever had in Ravenskill at 2:22-2:44. One of my favorite passages in recent memory from DT and it's played for 22 seconds never to be heard again. :lol
I texted almost those exact words to John Petrucci once. His response was, "Well, I guess I'll have to revisit that riff on The Astonishing, pt. II." :lol
Would be fun to have TA pt2 but it’s just an epic on a larger album, 10-20 minutes. Doesn’t even need a story, just revisit that albums sound in a condensed way.
I support this idea, sort of a reverse Metropolis thing where the standalone epic comes second instead of first.
And just for nerdiness sake, Metropolis part 1 goes into Metropolis part 2 8.1 times, so if DT were to keep the same ratio then TA part 2 would be a 16:07 epic. Which I think would be awesome! :metal
I quite like that idea. I hated TA due to the length and lyrical angle but if they were to have done a Broadway style EP, for example, with a decent plot, I'd probably have loved it.
-
I had listened to Barstool Warrior again this morning and the moment JP's solo came up, I was somehow reminded of Bed Of Roses in some strange way. :D (but only during his solo)
-
That’s an awesome Sambora solo, hugely underrated guitarist.
-
New edition:
https://dream-theater.lnk.to/DistanceOverTimeCDBlu-ray
-
That’s an awesome Sambora solo, hugely underrated guitarist.
I totally agree. Sambora is the main reason why I picked up guitar at all when I was 14.
As much as I love Bon Jovi, when they came last year to support the first album without Sambora, it was the first time in my life that I just didn't feel like going. Even though Phil X fits in perfectly it just didn't feel right. I didn't even buy the album, just streamed it a few times and nothing blew me away.
Conversely, Sambora's current music doesn't do anything for me either, even though his first two solo albums were amazing, the first moreso than the second.
It's just too bad things are the way they are right now. The power and chemistry of Sambora/Bon Jovi together is so much more than how they are now.
-
100% agree with all of this. I didn’t bother with the album or any shows since Sambora left. I don’t blame JBJ for kicking him out as he unfortunately always looks wasted whenever I see him interviewed or footage of him playing live. That wouldn’t fly in the smooth running juggernaut that is Bon Jovi and rightly so. Hope he can overcome his problems and get back to making good music either solo or with the band as they are not the same without him.
-
New edition:
https://dream-theater.lnk.to/DistanceOverTimeCDBlu-ray
Milking the cow much?
-
I'm about to toss Room 137 in the trash with Enigma Machine. It seems to be the only song from this album that pops up on shuffle, and I was never that big on it to begin with. Same with Three Days. HAUH. HAUH. HAUH.
I'll take Room 137 over the other two songs any day.
-
I'm about to toss Room 137 in the trash with Enigma Machine. It seems to be the only song from this album that pops up on shuffle, and I was never that big on it to begin with. Same with Three Days. HAUH. HAUH. HAUH.
I'll take Room 137 over the other two songs any day.
I'll take Room 137 AND Enigma Machine and you guys can fight over Three Days which I can only assume is on The Astonishing.
-
Honestly, I think R137 is bar none the worst song of the Mangini albums. Might be down there with the likes of PoW and ARoP. The few times I've come back to revisit the album, it's the one song I just can't stomach and feel composed to just skip entirely.
-
I don’t think it’s THAT bad, although it is my least favorite off the album. It’s definitely a rocker you can bang your head to, and the lyrics are interesting. But overall it doesn’t do much for me.
-
Just popping in to defend Room 137. Reminds me of the bridge in Dogman by Kings X. Both great tracks.
-
Easily my least favorite track on the album. I am happy MM was able to write some lyrics he feels good about and is proud of, but man this song is near the bottom of my DT rankings.
-
I'm about to toss Room 137 in the trash with Enigma Machine. It seems to be the only song from this album that pops up on shuffle, and I was never that big on it to begin with. Same with Three Days. HAUH. HAUH. HAUH.
I'll take Room 137 over the other two songs any day.
I'll take Room 137 AND Enigma Machine and you guys can fight over Three Days which I can only assume is on The Astonishing.
Yes, it is on TA. You haven't heard it? Not much there to fight over. :lol
-
Room 137 is a chore to get through, IMO
It's weird, there are plenty of great moments in the song. Some parts of the track are some of the best moments on the album, but the song as a whole does absolutely nothing for me.
-
Honestly, I think R137 is bar none the worst song of the Mangini albums. Might be down there with the likes of PoW and ARoP. The few times I've come back to revisit the album, it's the one song I just can't stomach and feel composed to just skip entirely.
Might be my least favorite MM era song (exempting TA, which I'm still not overly familiar with), but that only demonstrates how strong ADTOE, DT12 and DOT are because I don't dislike R137.
-
Room 137 is a chore to get through, IMO
It's weird, there are plenty of great moments in the song. Some parts of the track are some of the best moments on the album, but the song as a whole does absolutely nothing for me.
That's funny cause I feel exactly the same way about TA.
-
Room 137 is not my favourite on the album but I don’t find it a chore, there’s nothing on the new album that I skip. Also would say it’s far from the worst song of the Mangini era. BMUBMD would probably take that title for me along with a few songs on TA (I enjoy TA a lot overall but there are moments I’m not keen on).
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing. Great solo and backing. And the rearranged half verse near the end is a perfect example of what DT do best, imo.
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing.
What is the lyrical background?
R137 immediately reminded me of Marilyn Manson's song The Beautiful People (which isn't really a good or a bad thing).
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing.
What is the lyrical background?
R137 immediately reminded me of Marilyn Manson's song The Beautiful People (which isn't really a good or a bad thing).
It's about the life and work of Wolfgang Pauli (an Austrian physicist who specialised in quantum mechanics and electron configuration and who defined the fine structure constant as being 1/137), who was obsessed with the number 137. He died in said room as well.
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing.
What is the lyrical background?
R137 immediately reminded me of Marilyn Manson's song The Beautiful People (which isn't really a good or a bad thing).
It's about the life and work of Wolfgang Pauli (an Austrian physicist who specialised in quantum mechanics and electron configuration and who defined the fine structure constant as being 1/137), who was obsessed with the number 137. He died in said room as well.
Seriously?
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing.
What is the lyrical background?
R137 immediately reminded me of Marilyn Manson's song The Beautiful People (which isn't really a good or a bad thing).
It's about the life and work of Wolfgang Pauli (an Austrian physicist who specialised in quantum mechanics and electron configuration and who defined the fine structure constant as being 1/137), who was obsessed with the number 137. He died in said room as well.
Seriously?
yes, as far as I can remember. I may not be completely accurate on this, but Mike mentioned the guy and his obsessions and the fine structure constant. (and he wrote the lyrics, remember)
-
Yeah you are pretty much on point -
https://genius.com/Dream-theater-room-137-lyrics
-
Yeah. I remember JP was really giddy over the song and the lyrics prior to the album coming out. I really thought it was going to make it into the set list. (they even sound checked part of it at the show I attended)
-
Omg. Love R137. Great lyrical background, really interesting rhythmically with the whole chunky swing thing.
What is the lyrical background?
R137 immediately reminded me of Marilyn Manson's song The Beautiful People (which isn't really a good or a bad thing).
It's about the life and work of Wolfgang Pauli (an Austrian physicist who specialised in quantum mechanics and electron configuration and who defined the fine structure constant as being 1/137), who was obsessed with the number 137. He died in said room as well.
Seriously?
yes, as far as I can remember. I may not be completely accurate on this, but Mike mentioned the guy and his obsessions and the fine structure constant. (and he wrote the lyrics, remember)
Then I learned something new today. However, I learning that actually diminishes my feelings about the lyrics for some reason.
-
It must have been unbelievably unsettling ending his days in room 137. Weird AF.
What did you think it was about before, out of interest?
-
It must have been unbelievably unsettling ending his days in room 137. Weird AF.
What did you think it was about before, out of interest?
Me? Or Pg? I actually thought it had to do with The Shining (but then I remembered it was Room 237 in The Shining. Silly me.)
-
Great riff, nice melodies, cool chorus, etc. in Room 137...what's not to like? ??? ???
I can't say it's one of their best songs, or even one of my favorites from the new album, but I dig it and find it to be a kickass deep cut. :metal :metal
-
It must have been unbelievably unsettling ending his days in room 137. Weird AF.
What did you think it was about before, out of interest?
Me? Or Pg? I actually thought it had to do with The Shining (but then I remembered it was Room 237 in The Shining. Silly me.)
I honestly hadn't given it much thought, but I do recall seeing something about The Shining, which I think would have been cooler, so that's probably what I had in the back of my mind.
-
Great riff, nice melodies, cool chorus, etc. in Room 137...what's not to like? ??? ???
I can't say it's one of their best songs, or even one of my favorites from the new album, but I dig it and find it to be a kickass deep cut. :metal :metal
it's nice you love it. I'll respectfully say I don't (I like the lyrics though), because it seems to simplistic musically speaking. (That being said: I may find out what's interesting about it, and my expectation was that given that Mike was involved with the piece, I expected it to be really technical and complicated. Boy was I wrong.)
-
It must have been unbelievably unsettling ending his days in room 137. Weird AF.
What did you think it was about before, out of interest?
Me? Or Pg? I actually thought it had to do with The Shining (but then I remembered it was Room 237 in The Shining. Silly me.)
In the book it's 217. In Kubrick's film it's 237. [King nerd mode off]
-
Great riff, nice melodies, cool chorus, etc. in Room 137...what's not to like? ??? ???
I can't say it's one of their best songs, or even one of my favorites from the new album, but I dig it and find it to be a kickass deep cut. :metal :metal
it's nice you love it. I'll respectfully say I don't (I like the lyrics though), because it seems to simplistic musically speaking. (That being said: I may find out what's interesting about it, and my expectation was that given that Mike was involved with the piece, I expected it to be really technical and complicated. Boy was I wrong.)
Here's a DRUM! Magazine video where a guy explains some of Mike's drum patterns on the album. I found the R137 one to be harder than it actually sounds, maybe you could check it out :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFdA1z72yMA
Also, the song is super cool, like Kev said, it's a great riff, has cool melodies, the solo section is really cool, as is the vocoder-ish section. Plus, it's the song with the most nuggetz (for those who care about that), like the first time the words "137" are sung, for example, James finishes singing "one thirty seven" at 1:37 minutes into the song :eek
But I agree it's not one of the best songs on the album, when you have tracks like PBD, AWE, S2N and FITL :metal
-
If anyone likes R137, more power to you. I'll keep my thoughts on it short, but what really kills the song for me is the redundant and wholly uninteresting riff that they stick with for a majority of the track. It never progresses or develops into something more interesting, it just trudges along at a sluggish pace and really test my patience. The overbearing effects used on James' vocals in the latter half really turn me even further off from it; they just drone on and on and is possibly the most repugnant aspect of the song to me.
Again, to those who enjoy the song, don't let me stop you from jamming to it! It's just not my bag.
-
Room 137 is my least favorite song on the album. But, I don't think it's a bad song at all. I like the main riff and the lyrics and the story behind the lyrics quite a lot. It just isn't as interesting musically as the other songs on the album IMO. If I heard it on the radio I'd totally crank it!
-
Room 137 may be my least favorite as well, but I still think it's a fun song that's pretty unique in their recent catalogue. And it's only my least favorite because the other songs on D/T are so good!
-
It is unique!
-
Great riff, nice melodies, cool chorus, etc. in Room 137...what's not to like? ??? ???
I can't say it's one of their best songs, or even one of my favorites from the new album, but I dig it and find it to be a kickass deep cut. :metal :metal
it's nice you love it. I'll respectfully say I don't (I like the lyrics though), because it seems to simplistic musically speaking. (That being said: I may find out what's interesting about it, and my expectation was that given that Mike was involved with the piece, I expected it to be really technical and complicated. Boy was I wrong.)
Here's a DRUM! Magazine video where a guy explains some of Mike's drum patterns on the album. I found the R137 one to be harder than it actually sounds, maybe you could check it out :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFdA1z72yMA
Yeah, R137 is one of those Mangini songs that sound simple while listening but when you play it, you go WTF. Like you do a triplet feel for the bass and drums, play it on a 7/4 meter, but the freaking cymbals play half notes on a 4/4. WHY?
And that guitar solo. When it did the fun twist, and JM joined, it really makes me smile.
-
Great riff, nice melodies, cool chorus, etc. in Room 137...what's not to like? ??? ???
I can't say it's one of their best songs, or even one of my favorites from the new album, but I dig it and find it to be a kickass deep cut. :metal :metal
it's nice you love it. I'll respectfully say I don't (I like the lyrics though), because it seems to simplistic musically speaking. (That being said: I may find out what's interesting about it, and my expectation was that given that Mike was involved with the piece, I expected it to be really technical and complicated. Boy was I wrong.)
Here's a DRUM! Magazine video where a guy explains some of Mike's drum patterns on the album. I found the R137 one to be harder than it actually sounds, maybe you could check it out :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFdA1z72yMA
Yeah, R137 is one of those Mangini songs that sound simple while listening but when you play it, you go WTF. Like you do a triplet feel for the bass and drums, play it on a 7/4 meter, but the freaking cymbals play half notes on a 4/4. WHY?
And that guitar solo. When it did the fun twist, and JM joined, it really makes me smile.
I knew that aspect about the 7 over 4 bits yes. (the way Mike joined in as well), I just expected a lot more, that's all.
-
On another note I finally listened to the podcast with JP and Eddie Trunk. JP mentioned a riff that JM wrote and they put it in the album. Does anyone know what track that riff is in?
-
I think that's S2N.
-
On another note I finally listened to the podcast with JP and Eddie Trunk. JP mentioned a riff that JM wrote and they put it in the album. Does anyone know what track that riff is in?
Don't know the specific one he was talking about there, as I haven't listened to it, but the two that have been confirmed to be JM riffs (that I know of) are S2N and UA.
-
I think that's S2N.
and IMHO it's a fun riff from JM's point of view, him channeling Geddy Lee and all that (I instantly was reminded of both Anthem and By-Tor the first time I listened to it, right when the hunt ended.)
-
Geez, duh of course it had to be S2N. I don't know why I didn't connect the two. I just listened to d/t right after that podcast too. :facepalm:
-
On another note I finally listened to the podcast with JP and Eddie Trunk. JP mentioned a riff that JM wrote and they put it in the album. Does anyone know what track that riff is in?
I'm fairly certain he's said in a previous interview that the opening bass riff on S2N was written by JM, but I don't know if it's the same one he's referring to in this interview.
Edit: oops I forgot to go to the next page, so I thought that question was the latest post in the thread :lolpalm:
-
It must have been unbelievably unsettling ending his days in room 137. Weird AF.
What did you think it was about before, out of interest?
Me? Or Pg? I actually thought it had to do with The Shining (but then I remembered it was Room 237 in The Shining. Silly me.)
I honestly hadn't given it much thought, but I do recall seeing something about The Shining, which I think would have been cooler, so that's probably what I had in the back of my mind.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I initially thought the song was about the room directly beneath 237 in The Shining. Turns out it was about something else. :-\
-
Didn't know where to post this, but DT just won "Best International Band" at Prog Music Awards :metal
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EETD0vvXsAAQ0zO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
-
Is that Al Murray presenting the award? :lol
-
Didn't know where to post this, but DT just won "Best International Band" at Prog Music Awards :metal
I don't get these categories. So, did they win because they go to multiple nations on tour or because they're a bunch of yankees with a canuck in the band?
-
Because it’s a U.K. based awards show. They have an award for best U.K. band (which Haken won) and then an award for best international band (essentially best foreign band from outside the U.K.) which Dream Theater won.
-
Because it’s a U.K. based awards show. They have an award for best U.K. band (which Haken won) and then an award for best international band (essentially best foreign band from outside the U.K.) which Dream Theater won.
Gotcha.
In that case :metal
-
So I gave DoT an extended break and have started to listen to it again. I loved it before but I was surprised at how fresh it all still felt. They really knocked this one out of the park.
I think UA and R137 are just ho hum modern DT songs but I love the rest of the album.
BW and AWE are truly legit classic DT songs. As a fan of the astonishing as well I really love the direction the band is going. Their last 3 albums are my 3 favorite since TOT by far and in ascending order with DoT my favorite DT album since Sdoit.
I expected to come back and find the album a tad stale but if anything it was even better this time around. My number 4 DT album of all time.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
I thought Bosk made that kind of clear on the "The Countdown Has Begun - European Tour Dates CONFIRMED!" thread:
Very true. I wonder whether the "new" set list will commence immediately, or if they will do the "old" version in those markets where they haven't played yet (I don't know the answer to that). But even though the changes are relatively small, I think the new set will leave people in awe.
I'm still considering going but SFaM in it's entirety is a real downer for me so I probably won't.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
Signed as in wet ink signatures? Or replica signatures?
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
Signed as in wet ink signatures? Or replica signatures?
Wet ink sigs. Real deal.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
I thought Bosk made that kind of clear on the "The Countdown Has Begun - European Tour Dates CONFIRMED!" thread:
Very true. I wonder whether the "new" set list will commence immediately, or if they will do the "old" version in those markets where they haven't played yet (I don't know the answer to that). But even though the changes are relatively small, I think the new set will leave people in awe.
I'm still considering going but SFaM in it's entirety is a real downer for me so I probably won't.
1. I think bosk only confirmed there would be some small changes, my guess is one or two songs, and am hopeful AWE is one.
2. I'm not the hugest SFAM fan but I would suggest you not miss the show. I'm even seeing them this leg again even though I wasn't crazy about SFAM being played in full from the get go. Oh well, it also allowed me to schedule my bathroom breaks accordingly and not have to worry about lines.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
Signed as in wet ink signatures? Or replica signatures?
Wet ink sigs. Real deal.
Cool! I had my eye on that but didn't realize it was real signatures. Good deal for $26. Just ordered. Thanks.
-
So I gave DoT an extended break and have started to listen to it again. I loved it before but I was surprised at how fresh it all still felt. They really knocked this one out of the park.
I think UA and R137 are just ho hum modern DT songs but I love the rest of the album.
BW and AWE are truly legit classic DT songs. As a fan of the astonishing as well I really love the direction the band is going. Their last 3 albums are my 3 favorite since TOT by far and in ascending order with DoT my favorite DT album since Sdoit.
I expected to come back and find the album a tad stale but if anything it was even better this time around. My number 4 DT album of all time.
137, Ho Hum?
Thats the most unique DT song we have got.
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
I thought Bosk made that kind of clear on the "The Countdown Has Begun - European Tour Dates CONFIRMED!" thread:
Very true. I wonder whether the "new" set list will commence immediately, or if they will do the "old" version in those markets where they haven't played yet (I don't know the answer to that). But even though the changes are relatively small, I think the new set will leave people in awe.
I'm still considering going but SFaM in it's entirety is a real downer for me so I probably won't.
1. I think bosk only confirmed there would be some small changes, my guess is one or two songs, and am hopeful AWE in this leg.
Well the last word in the line I quoted from Bosk ....
"I think the new set will leave people in awe."
-
We’ll find out in three days! :metal [Insert Nafaryus’ evil laugh here].
-
So, Prog magazine has a retrospective article on SFAM with new interviews (nothing mind blowing) but it came with a signed lyric sheet of At Wit's End.
That makes me think they may be pulling that one out for the next leg.
I got this issue last week with the signed lyric. Looks sweet! I do hope they play AWE in this leg.
I thought Bosk made that kind of clear on the "The Countdown Has Begun - European Tour Dates CONFIRMED!" thread:
Very true. I wonder whether the "new" set list will commence immediately, or if they will do the "old" version in those markets where they haven't played yet (I don't know the answer to that). But even though the changes are relatively small, I think the new set will leave people in awe.
I'm still considering going but SFaM in it's entirety is a real downer for me so I probably won't.
1. I think bosk only confirmed there would be some small changes, my guess is one or two songs, and am hopeful AWE in this leg.
Well the last word in the line I quoted from Bosk ....
"I think the new set will leave people in awe."
:lol
#nuggetz
-
It seems Dream Theater is going to film two shows of London next year.
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2yieL-AXHo/
I'm unhappy because we already had SFAM in its entirety.
I'm happy because we'll have DoT in its entirety. (Assume they'll play different DoT songs both night)
-
I'm happy that we get another version of SFAM - with this current lineup, and hopefully with much better graphics/animations than LSFNY.
-
If they play The Astonishing at one of those shows I will be happy... not otherwise
-
I think the ship has long sailed for an Astonishing live album.
The reality is, unfortunately, it is one of the least popular DT albums. I doubt they are going to revisit it live just to play a note for note rendition of it. I can't really see the point of that and I doubt it would be particularly successful.
Of course, if they make it into a proper production, get a 'cast' of vocalists (similar to Ayreon) and costumes, sets etc, that would be very cool.
This should be an interesting DVD, perhaps a bit redundant, bt the band was on excellent form when I saw them at Download Festival.
-
Are we 100% sure this DVD will include scenes? Here is the actual setlist from the LSFNY show:
Set 1: Metropolis, Part 2: Scenes From a Memory
Set 2:
Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
The Mirror (Including "Lie" coda)
Just Let Me Breathe
Acid Rain (Liquid Tension Experiment cover)
Caught in a New Millennium
Another Day (with Jay Beckenstein)
Keyboard Solo
Erotomania
Voices
The Silent Man
Learning to Live
Encore:
A Change of Seasons
The DVD only included 3 songs from the second set and the encore. What if they will only include the first set (rotating a few songs will help with duration) and maybe 1/3 of Scenes?
-
They could pull that off if they play different setlists each night. That way we could get all the songs from the 1st set they did on the US run, all the new songs they're including in the slightly modified version of the set for the upcoming leg, the songs they played on the European festivals, and probably a couple songs from SFAM (hopefully the ones that don't appear on BTFW, nor TSCO), but I feel like they would include the whole thing anyway.
-
I'm guessing they will do the same set both nights and comp the best stuff together from both nights for the DVD.
-
I think the ship has long sailed for an Astonishing live album.
The reality is, unfortunately, it is one of the least popular DT albums. I doubt they are going to revisit it live just to play a note for note rendition of it. I can't really see the point of that and I doubt it would be particularly successful.
Of course, if they make it into a proper production, get a 'cast' of vocalists (similar to Ayreon) and costumes, sets etc, that would be very cool.
This should be an interesting DVD, perhaps a bit redundant, bt the band was on excellent form when I saw them at Download Festival.
Pretty much. If they would film The Astonishing, they would probably do it in two nights such as this London back-to-back date. Would be hard to pull TA perfectly in one night if they were filming it. I'm actually stoked for this film. The current light and video setup for this tour is amazing.
-
Honestly, This Scenes show will likely top the Live Scenes DVD. As long as they make it Especially Special.
-
Now Petrucci has a chance to redeem himself with 'there can be no turning baaaaaaaaack' :o
-
Now Petrucci has a chance to redeem himself with 'there can be no turning baaaaaaaaack' :o
And James can finally correct "we're laring one eternity" :biggrin:
-
Now Petrucci has a chance to redeem himself with 'there can be no turning baaaaaaaaack' :o
And James can finally correct "we're laring one eternity" :biggrin:
He should do it again -- just for the sake of nostalgia.
-
If they play The Astonishing at one of those shows I will be happy... not otherwise
There’s zero chance of this. Tickets are being sold for the 2nd night on the basis of this being the DOT tour and celebrating SFAM. If people buy tickets to see that and then get The Astonishing instead, they’ll be royally pissed off and justifiably so. If 2nd night was going to be The Astonishing, they would have to advertise it as such.
-
I wouldn't say zero percent. It's probably more along the lines of...um...well, yeah, actually zero sounds about right.
-
Now Petrucci has a chance to redeem himself with 'there can be no turning baaaaaaaaack' :o
And James can finally correct "we're laring one eternity" :biggrin:
He should do it again -- just for the sake of nostalgia.
And the closing quote is: Sorry for the short set.
-
Maybe they will finally fix "Please never forget, let your memory of me dissappear!" (Still a beautiful moment from that album.)
-
Listened to the album in full after taking an extended break. Thoughts:
The first four songs, while not including any 5-star songs, is a solid run, definitely one of their strongest opening 4-song runs to start an album.
R137 wasn't as skippable as I remembered it being. It's not great, but I made it through with some enjoyment. I feel like if this song was written in the late 00s it would be 10 minutes long and annoyingly repetitive.
S2N was better than I remembered, though that instrumental section in the middle is my least favorite on the album. A bit of a wasted effort.
AWE is still awesome, though [controversial opinion?] the instrumental break before the "Asked me to listen..." part is weak and keeps it from being one of my top 5 DT songs.
Out of Reach: Good song and a bridges the AWE-PBD gap nicely. I don't like the "Ahhh-ahhhs" at the end, but small detail, otherwise no complaints.
PBD: I still think there is something missing that keeps this from being an instant classic. It is a great song, just a feeling there it's a bit of a missed opportunity. Love the subject matter/theme.
VK: Still not sure what to make of this song. I wonder how I would feel about it if it didn't have that silly "Bonus Track" label. It's not bad, but it doesn't stand out in any way. Chorus is pretty rocking though.
Solid album, some highs though nothing legendary, a few lows that don't bring it down significantly.
-
PBD: I still think there is something missing that keeps this from being an instant classic. It is a great song, just a feeling there it's a bit of a missed opportunity. Love the subject matter/theme.
I think the subject matter would have been better suited for the music of Illumination Theory. Not that the actual lyrics of that song are bad or out of place, but a speech about the immensity of the universe and the urge to togetherness in face of our insignificant little spot in the universe would have made wonders for IT, especially the ending part.
-
Did D/T grow on you or did you like it right away? (I know this may have made sense as a thread of its own, but I'm interested to know)
-
Did D/T grow on you or did you like it right away? (I know this may have made sense as a thread of its own, but I'm interested to know)
Are you asking somebody specifically, or is this aimed at everybody? If the latter, I'll go ahead and answer: I liked it right away. But not really for the singles (other than Paralyzed). Untethered and FITL actually took me a bit to appreciate. But the deep cuts grabbed me right away. The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
-
Did D/T grow on you or did you like it right away? (I know this may have made sense as a thread of its own, but I'm interested to know)
Are you asking somebody specifically, or is this aimed at everybody? If the latter, I'll go ahead and answer: I liked it right away. But not really for the singles (other than Paralyzed). Untethered and FITL actually took me a bit to appreciate. But the deep cuts grabbed me right away. The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
yes, the latter. Forgot to mention that originally.
-
The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
It definitely feels "short" (by DT standards), but that's probably because the songs fly by, there's no unnecesary noodling or longer sections for the sake of it.
Having said that, I really want a 30 minute epic on the next album :biggrin:
-
The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
It definitely feels "short" (by DT standards), but that's probably because the songs fly by, there's no unnecesary noodling or longer sections for the sake of it.
Having said that, I really want a 30 minute epic on the next album :biggrin:
now that would be fun I'm sure
-
The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
It definitely feels "short" (by DT standards), but that's probably because the songs fly by, there's no unnecesary noodling or longer sections for the sake of it.
Having said that, I really want a 30 minute epic on the next album :biggrin:
now that would be fun I'm sure
:metal :metal :metal
-
Did D/T grow on you or did you like it right away? (I know this may have made sense as a thread of its own, but I'm interested to know)
Are you asking somebody specifically, or is this aimed at everybody? If the latter, I'll go ahead and answer: I liked it right away. But not really for the singles (other than Paralyzed). Untethered and FITL actually took me a bit to appreciate. But the deep cuts grabbed me right away. The one thing that felt "off" initially was that the album felt too short. It doesn't anymore, but I remember feeling that way the first few listens.
I felt similar, also on the "short" comment. At some point thought that if an Instrumental song was the thing missing so it wouldn't feel "short"...But think making it longer or an instrumental were things the band was not looking forward on this album. I would have loved at least a short instrumental song on D/T ;).
-
I think the album has grown on me a lot over the past few months. I couldn't be happier that they went with the more concise approach to the song structures, & the album (or at least the playlist I made of it :lol) flows really well. The album as a whole isn't quite as good as TA, but it's really close, & far above ADTOE & DT12.
That said, I'm going to reiterate what many people have already said: I think Room 137 should've been the bonus track instead of Viper King.
-
I liked it straight away and it grew on me with time also, particularly PBD. I respectfully disagree with the above post regarding Room 137 and Viper King. I’m not saying one is a better song than the other but, to me at least, Room 137 fits on the album sonically and stylistically. Viper King, whilst I enjoy it a lot, screams bonus track to me. Not because it’s bad but just because it doesn’t sound like it fits on the album, it sounds like a fun homage to Deep Purple on an album of fairly dark, modern sounding metal songs. Just my opinion though, it’s an awesome album that stands up 8 months on.
-
Yeah, I agree with you, Viper King definitively is the bonus track. And if you take out Room 137 off the album, the number on the android's hand has no meaning :P
-
I liked it straight away and it grew on me with time also, particularly PBD. I respectfully disagree with the above post regarding Room 137 and Viper King. I’m not saying one is a better song than the other but, to me at least, Room 137 fits on the album sonically and stylistically. Viper King, whilst I enjoy it a lot, screams bonus track to me. Not because it’s bad but just because it doesn’t sound like it fits on the album, it sounds like a fun homage to Deep Purple on an album of fairly dark, modern sounding metal songs. Just my opinion though, it’s an awesome album that stands up 8 months on.
I don't disagree with that at all.
-
I liked it straight away and it grew on me with time also, particularly PBD. I respectfully disagree with the above post regarding Room 137 and Viper King. I’m not saying one is a better song than the other but, to me at least, Room 137 fits on the album sonically and stylistically. Viper King, whilst I enjoy it a lot, screams bonus track to me. Not because it’s bad but just because it doesn’t sound like it fits on the album, it sounds like a fun homage to Deep Purple on an album of fairly dark, modern sounding metal songs. Just my opinion though, it’s an awesome album that stands up 8 months on.
Based on the track by track interview that was the subject of another thread, it sounds to me that DT intended Viper King to be just a fun off-the-cuff song. And it sits nicley as labeled as a bonus track, but I still listen to the album all the way through as if it was intended to be part of the album proper even though I know that was not the case.
-
Me too, it’s a fun song with some killer JP playing.
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
-
:lol
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
VK reminds me more of Extreme then VH.
BTW - LOVE JP's solo on this track!
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
Lol, I agree!
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
VK reminds me more of Extreme then VH.
BTW - LOVE JP's solo on this track!
and Led Zeppelin too IMHO (think Black Dog but with cleaner execution)
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
1984
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
VK reminds me more of Extreme then VH.
BTW - LOVE JP's solo on this track!
Mike was in Extreme after all...
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
What VH album should it be on?
1984
I'm going to make a 1984 playlist and sneak that song in somewhere.
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
Viper King is the best Sons of Apollo song ever
-
Viper King is the best Van Halen song in the last 20 years.
Viper King is the best Sons of Apollo song ever
Well, so is Out of Reach.
-
The new digipaks have the correct logo font.
-
At Wit's End live from Tivoli Theater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTFbusGkjdY
I think At Wit's End is the second Breaking All Illusions where James shines live considering his age and limits.
-
Love that song on the album, but that video seems to
lack energy. Also could not hear MM's kick. Watching him
reach so high makes my traps and upper back hurt.
-
Did D/T grow on you or did you like it right away? (I know this may have made sense as a thread of its own, but I'm interested to know)
I like it just as much as when I first heard it. I think it's a good solid album but I haven't listened to it that much since the first month it came out.
-
So, this is my first post. Have been a fan since Images and words, liked most of the albums, but not all.
I heard DoT on Spotify first, and liked the music, but not so much the sound. Since I'm a bit of a hifi-enthusiast, I bought the album in high resolution online, and to my surprise the sound was just as bad. I was shocked!
I think this must be the worst album so far when it comes to mastering. The sound totally lacks dynamics, and sounds like limiters are working overtime in more intense tracks (opening track is a good example). Drums are compressed and kick drum sounds really odd with a low range boost. Fat sound, but no dynamics and really tiring to listen to. Digital audio can do so much more, we are not using cassettes any more (the sound reminds me a little of a tape with the recording level set too high).
Other albums have been varying in sound quality(WDADU comes to mind :), but in this case is seems the input (recorded tracks) was ok, but the dynamics where lost in the mixing/mastering.
Too bad, since the music is top notch (best in the MM-era IMO), but sound quality makes me want to turn it off..
Has nobody else noticed this?
-
Maybe I'm just not as much of a hi-fi enthusiast, but I think DOT is one of the band's best-sounding albums ever. :justjen
-
So, this is my first post. Have been a fan since Images and words, liked most of the albums, but not all.
I heard DoT on Spotify first, and liked the music, but not so much the sound. Since I'm a bit of a hifi-enthusiast, I bought the album in high resolution online, and to my surprise the sound was just as bad. I was shocked!
I think this must be the worst album so far when it comes to mastering. The sound totally lacks dynamics, and sounds like limiters are working overtime in more intense tracks (opening track is a good example). Drums are compressed and kick drum sounds really odd with a low range boost. Fat sound, but no dynamics and really tiring to listen to. Digital audio can do so much more, we are not using cassettes any more (the sound reminds me a little of a tape with the recording level set too high).
Other albums have been varying in sound quality(WDADU comes to mind :), but in this case is seems the input (recorded tracks) was ok, but the dynamics where lost in the mixing/mastering.
Too bad, since the music is top notch (best in the MM-era IMO), but sound quality makes me want to turn it off..
Has nobody else noticed this?
Yes, several of us did, enough to rip the stereo version from the blu-ray. Much better than any other version, including the version made available through HDTracks.
Edit: Here you go: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53465.0
Have a read through that thread. Slightly embarrassing from a personal perspective that my (inebriated) rant near the start of it stated, by implication, that the stereo blu-ray track also sounded terrible. It didn't and it doesn't. Well worth getting hold of the converted files.
-
So, this is my first post. Have been a fan since Images and words, liked most of the albums, but not all.
I heard DoT on Spotify first, and liked the music, but not so much the sound. Since I'm a bit of a hifi-enthusiast, I bought the album in high resolution online, and to my surprise the sound was just as bad. I was shocked!
I think this must be the worst album so far when it comes to mastering. The sound totally lacks dynamics, and sounds like limiters are working overtime in more intense tracks (opening track is a good example). Drums are compressed and kick drum sounds really odd with a low range boost. Fat sound, but no dynamics and really tiring to listen to. Digital audio can do so much more, we are not using cassettes any more (the sound reminds me a little of a tape with the recording level set too high).
Other albums have been varying in sound quality(WDADU comes to mind :), but in this case is seems the input (recorded tracks) was ok, but the dynamics where lost in the mixing/mastering.
Too bad, since the music is top notch (best in the MM-era IMO), but sound quality makes me want to turn it off..
Has nobody else noticed this?
Yes, you’re not the only one. It’s loud and compressed. Not as bad as, say, Metallica’s “Death Magnetic” or RHCP’s “Californication” and not unlistenable, but still a bad master. Definitely tied with D12 as their worst sounding album. And yes, it’s a shame, because Astonishing was one of their better releases in that regard. At the end of the day, though, a lot of people like that in-your-face brickwalled sound, so it is what it is.
-
Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?
As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun
-
Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.
Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.
-
Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?
As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun
If you get the blu-ray and rip the stereo track off it, you'll be fine and it's miles ahead (sonically speaking) from the HDTracks version.
-
Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.
Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.
[/b][/u]
I feel exactly the same way. Bummed that it didn't grab me, and at this point, after multiple revisitings, I am ready to concede that this is just not for me.
-
I haven't listened to the album in a good minute, and I haven't really been compelled to either. There are some great moments here and there but the overly-compressed production and some of the more lackluster cuts keep me from revisiting it more often than I am. I can kinda just take it or leave it.
-
If it's only been a minute, I think you like the album more than you are letting on.
-
I have been exposed. :sadpanda:
-
Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.
Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.
I wouldn’t go as far to say it sounds like they’re phoning it in. But the whole thing seems a bit rushed. It’s super short and some of the songs seem to need a bit more work and a bit more room to breathe. To me, it sounds more like “shit, we’re contractually obligated to write an album...BEFORE MARCH 2019!!”
I really only go back to Barstool Warrior, At Wit’s End and S2N, the rest is pretty bottom of the DT barrel for me.
In my own prog fantasyland I’d probably take the best/most inspired/proggy musical ideas of the Astonishing, cut out all the fat (and the concept storyline), mix it in a blender with some of the best moments (and efficiency) of D/T, and spend some time arranging that into 70 minute album, it would be a masterpiece.
-
Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?
As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun
If you get the blu-ray and rip the stereo track off it, you'll be fine and it's miles ahead (sonically speaking) from the HDTracks version.
Hdtracks will refund (nice of them).
I have no blu-ray player, and I'm not planning to get one only to be able to get decent quality on one album. Either DOT will be dismissed, or I go searching in the dark corners of the internet..
-
I'm also in the camp where DoT is easily the lowest-ranked MM era album for me. VERY FEW moments of brilliance. Competence, yes. But I don't listen to DT for competence.
-
I'm also in the camp where DoT is easily the lowest-ranked MM era album for me. VERY FEW moments of brilliance. Competence, yes. But I don't listen to DT for competence.
I agree. 2 good pieces (not brilliant) out of 10 (PBD and OOR, it's a pretty good ballad IMHO and PBD is fairly close to greatness too IMHO, it could have had more notes though) isn't a good tally. It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO. Some other moments of nicety (not brilliance) include the Morricone section during FITL and maybe the introductory section of Barstool Warrior IMHO.
-
It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO.
I literally cannot compute that. Would be lovely to be able to hear what you do. Virtually every song is filler for me.
Back specifically to Distance Over Time: it's not aged so well. I initially thought it was a top five album, now I think I'd rank it in the lower third. Lacks depth. At least they're not slated to be playing much of it in February.
-
It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO.
I literally cannot compute that. Would be lovely to be able to hear what you do. Virtually every song is filler for me.
Back specifically to Distance Over Time: it's not aged so well. I initially thought it was a top five album, now I think I'd rank it in the lower third. Lacks depth. At least they're not slated to be playing much of it in February.
no no, sorry. I meant ADTOE being all killer no filler IMHO. (and honestly, I can see why fans that are my age or younger love it) DT12 is not entirely like that IMHO, although I love it lots as well. Again, back to D/T, I can somewhat see why people like it a lot though and it's fine with me (i.e D/T not being TA, not being overly long, a lot "straighter" as it were, easier to grasp and all that, being heavier again and all these aspects. I think it did a good job of having fans come back to DT that didn't like TA or DT12, so I think that's a nice achievement as it were)
-
Ah, gotcha.
Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't ;D
-
Ah, gotcha.
Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't ;D
of course. I'm ready for DT15 now though to be honest.
-
Count me in the "all killer/no filler" camp for both albums (ATDOE and DT12). As I've often said, those are DT's two most consistent albums ever. Not a single song I dislike on either of them. Even BAI has plenty of interesting moments. And while d/t may be a step down from either of those, the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.
-
the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.
Yep. there's no denying it
-
Count me in the "all killer/no filler" camp for both albums (ATDOE and DT12). As I've often said, those are DT's two most consistent albums ever. Not a single song I dislike on either of them. Even BAI has plenty of interesting moments. And while d/t may be a step down from either of those, the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.
very true. (What I meant by "not entirely killer on DT12" was that there is one section on the entire album that I don't think makes sense, so overall it still is all killer no filler :D) And yes, I think the level of constant quality in the MM era is unprecedented. I've been a fan since 1998 and I've seen (IMHO) hits and misses in the songwriting (and personal criteria of playing). It hasn't been like that ever since 2010 IMHO. I'm grateful for all these developments (although it may not seem like that on the surface, but I am) And one more thing I've observed: I guess IO are doing a good job of giving our guys the royal treatment for this album and beyond (as it were) that they deserve and have been deserving for a long time already.
-
Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't ;D
I love DT12. Some of the flaws are obvious, like the sound/mixing and mastering choices, but I feel like the songs come from a real place of them trying to make the best album for who they were around that particular time. If feels authentic, and, like Bosk says, it's one of the most consistent DT albums to date.
The songs, while also on the shorter side, have some pretty cool twists and turns on the songwriting aspect and not the technical side; and they definitely crafted these sections carefully to highlight the song, not just noodling for the sake of noodling. And the grooves, oh man, the grooves. As a bassist and drummer, the musical chemistry between MM and JM was a pleasant surprise back then, as it seemed they really worked together to fine tune those bass/drum parts :metal
Also, it was released during a very bad/dark season of my life and it helped me go through it. For the first time I started paying attention to the lyrics and actually connecting with them, and those lyrics meant something special to me at that time (I was 18 back then).
-
Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't ;D
I love DT12. Some of the flaws are obvious, like the sound/mixing and mastering choices, but I feel like the songs come from a real place of them trying to make the best album for who they were around that particular time. If feels authentic, and, like Bosk says, it's one of the most consistent DT albums to date.
The songs, while also on the shorter side, have some pretty cool twists and turns on the songwriting aspect and not the technical side; and they definitely crafted these sections carefully to highlight the song, not just noodling for the sake of noodling. And the grooves, oh man, the grooves. As a bassist and drummer, the musical chemistry between MM and JM was a pleasant surprise back then, as it seemed they really worked together to fine tune those bass/drum parts :metal
Also, it was released during a very bad/dark season of my life and it helped me go through it. For the first time I started paying attention to the lyrics and actually connecting with them, and those lyrics meant something special to me at that time (I was 18 back then).
this was what happened to me when ADTOE came out. (DT12 as well actually, coming to think of it)
-
I stopped listening to it so I wouldn't get burnt out on it. I'd say about a month or so of no D/T. I listened to Pale Blue Dot and At Wits End the other day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
-
It's crazy to me how much I disagree with some of the most recent comments. The energy on DOT is better than any album since SDOIT to me.
I really like DT12 and The Astonishing but I feel like they finally produced magic again with the new one.
I still don't understand the love fest for ADTOE... talk about an album that seems mailed in. The production is awful and there is literally nothing unique about the album. They sound like any other neo prog band. Just long boring bland prog songs and mediocre ballads.
Breaking All Illusions aside but I still don't even like the vocal melodies on it.
-
The DT that truly made DT the cult band phenomenon it was died after TOT. To call the MM albums an unprecedented run of quality music just seems strange to me. You can certainly have your opinion but it would be in the MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board.
I believe the MM albums represent a nice return to form for an aging band that had lost it's way. Very few people are ranking DT "the greatest prog band of all time" because of ANY album that has come after TOT.
-
The DT that truly made DT the cult band phenomenon it was died after TOT. To call the MM albums an unprecedented run of quality music just seems strange to me. You can certainly have your opinion but it would be in the MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board.
I believe the MM albums represent a nice return to form for an aging band that had lost it's way. Very few people are ranking DT "the greatest prog band of all time" because of ANY album that has come after TOT.
You are certainly not alone in feeling that what made you love about DT "died" after [album X]. But "album X" is SO different for so many people. Ask one person, and they'll say I&W was the last great album. Another says Awake. Another said...well, you get the picture. You can find fans that say that about virtually ANY album in the band's history all the way up to some saying that what made them special died when MP left. And I'm not knocking that at all. If you feel that way, you feel that way. But I have certainly NOT seen that expressed by a majority of fans, on this board or elsewhere. Your statement that any opinion other than yours is shared by only a "MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board" isn't supported by anything I have seen on these forums through the years.
-
Look at the DT by decade poll on this very board.....
It is an overwhelming majority for people liking the music of the 90's the best.
And that is on a sample size of diehard fans that are STILL diehard through 2019. It also makes sense... the band was in their prime and at their most inspired.
DT is my favorite band of all time (them and the kinks... I know thats weird) so I don't think they every DIED per se but I think it's a pretty strong majority of people that would rank I&W and SFAM as their two best albums and SDOIT or Awake is usually third.
Now that is not to say that there are not many people who have other favorites as there definitely are... I just think to call the MM album era an "unprecedented" level of quality is not a realistic viewpoint of the band as a whole. That implies that there were no other eras that match or surpass the quality of the last 4 albums. You can definitely have that opinion but it is certainly in the minority of their fanbase. The bands CLASSIC and most highly rated and respected work came in the 90's. I also have DoT #4 on my list of DT albums all time so I still very much love them and the direction they are going.
-
I stopped listening to it so I wouldn't get burnt out on it. I'd say about a month or so of no D/T. I listened to Pale Blue Dot and At Wits End the other day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I think these three (including OOR) make for a great "home run" (as it were) of the album, or a good ending. I enjoyed the recent live versions of AWE quite a bit too (more so than the album version if I may say so)
-
What I will say about this topic is that D/T has been the easiest album for me to get into. I enjoyed the album from the first time I listened to it, and still do. In fact, the songs I originally did not enjoy got better with time (specially Barstool Warrior). The other 3 MM album took me a while. TA took me a couple of listens (though I rarely revisit much of it nowadays), and ADTOE took me a couple of months before I could consider it a good album. Just recently BMUBMD clicked to me, as much hate as it gets I think its a great song.
DT12 had it's ups and down. During the first week after release, I liked 2 songs (Enemy Inside and Bigger picture, both of which were the reason I got my first 7 string guitar). In the year following it, I learned to appreciated it and I thought every song was good-great. Now if it comes on, I listen to it, but only song I constantly revisit is Surrender to reason, everything else is just ok (to me).
You are certainly not alone in feeling that what made you love about DT "died" after [album X]. But "album X" is SO different for so many people. Ask one person, and they'll say I&W was the last great album. Another says Awake. Another said...well, you get the picture.
Agree with that. I personally don't think DT has any bad albums, just album I personally don't care to listen to as often as others. Based on one of the recent polls, there are some fans who believe 2000-2009 were DT best years, even though the sentiment for most here is that those were their dark ages.
-
Please keep in mind that I never said DT as a band died after TOT... I simply said and implied the "holy of all holy legendary cult phenomenon band known as DT." died after TOT.
There is not a single DT album that I don't enjoy so I happily listen to their entire catalogue, but the band became a thing of legend because of albums that Mike Portnoy was on, not because of the solid run of MM albums.
Also, don't forget that SDOIT and TOT were also included on that 2000-2009 poll and those albums are not lumped into the "dark ages".
Regardless though... the MM era has the least amount of votes for "favorite decade" which is exactly what I have been discussing here.
-
Look at the DT by decade poll on this very board.....
It is an overwhelming majority for people liking the music of the 90's the best.
Yes. But feeling that a particular era is their "best" is not the same as disliking other eras or feeling that the band "lost their way" (I thought you said "died," which is why I used quotes, but you actually said "lost their way," so my mistake) after that. A lot of people who voted in that poll and said that they voted for that era expressed that they love other eras as well. So it's not accurate to say that a majority feel that they lost their way afterward. That really isn't accurate.
(not to mention that 86 votes isn't a large enough sample to be representative of a message board that has had something like 15,000 members)
-
I like every decade by DT, I like some decades far more than others.
I was commenting on the "unprecedented run of quality by MM albums" comment you made. That is in the minority of this fanbase.
The poll shows it and its just obvious that their classic albums are before MM got here.
-
Minor quibbles aside, I agree in spirit with lovethedrake. I am a big fan of all four albums they have done with Mangini, and not many bands can say their 11th through 14th studio albums as a 4-album run is as good as ADTOE, DT12, TA and D/T, but they are prog metal legends (by and large) because of 1992-2002. I won't say they ever lost their way, but there was definitely some slippage the last few years of the Portnoy era, and I think it's clear that his departure combined with the addition of Mangini gave them the kick in the pants that they were needing.
-
Very well said KevShmev.
I did say that the band of legend known as DT "died" after TOT and that is probably where Bosk is getting hung up on here.
I don't have anything to back that comment up.
I kind of think of TOT as the black album for DT, bridges the gap between classic DT and the shift in direction.
-
Also, with every shift in direction comes a new wave of fans. Those fans that started off with TOT may not think of DT the same way I do. The 90's music may seem too light and dated.
I totally get that there is a humungous fanbase here and not everyone has the same opinion but as KevShmev said the band made their name from 1992-2002.
-
Also, with every shift in direction comes a new wave of fans. Those fans that started off with TOT may not think of DT the same way I do. The 90's music may seem too light and dated.
This is me. I am only on board since early 2016. I was looking for metal, fell in love with how they mix the prog with the metal, and would say that I listen to Images and Words the least..Although when I do listen, I enjoy it very much.
-
I loved Images and Words back in the day. I still do. But I love it less than a lot of other stuff they have done. It ranks right in the middle of their discography for me. There is some stuff that is done really, really well. But other songs that just don't make the cut. I can't say that about 3 of the 4 Mangini-era albums. As much as I like I&W, and as much as the highs on that album might be higher than the highs on anything in the 2010s, it just isn't as consistent. Other than Scenes and Six Degrees, no album is.
-
I think the problem DT has created for themselves is that fans are constantly expecting an OHMYGODTHISISSOGROUNDBREAKING EXPERIENCE, and I just think that's an impossible expectation to live up to.
Personally, I rate ADTOE as my Top 3 DT album, and The Astonishing really isn't that far behind.
I'd say the MM Era has represented.
-
Also, with every shift in direction comes a new wave of fans. Those fans that started off with TOT may not think of DT the same way I do. The 90's music may seem too light and dated.
This is me. I am only on board since early 2016. I was looking for metal, fell in love with how they mix the prog with the metal, and would say that I listen to Images and Words the least..Although when I do listen, I enjoy it very much.
I am in the same camp you are. I became a fan right after ADToE and I am much more into their new stuff.
I loved Images and Words back in the day. I still do. But I love it less than a lot of other stuff they have done. It ranks right in the middle of their discography for me. There is some stuff that is done really, really well. But other songs that just don't make the cut. I can't say that about 3 of the 4 Mangini-era albums. As much as I like I&W, and as much as the highs on that album might be higher than the highs on anything in the 2010s, it just isn't as consistent. Other than Scenes and Six Degrees, no album is.
I agree. I&W has some really good songs and I know it's a land mark album for the band and when I do listen I enjoy it. However, it just sounds way too dated for me to listen to often. The same goes for Awake. I know many fans consider it really heavy and it is sort of in some parts, but when I think of heavy I usually think more along the lines of ToT, and DT12.
Just my pov though.
-
Personally, I rate ADTOE as my Top 3 DT album, and The Astonishing really isn't that far behind.
Yes and yes. ADToE and the Astonishing are stellarly good. :metal
-
This may be controversial, but I think DOT might be my new second-favourite DT album, behind only Images & Words.
-
I think the problem DT has created for themselves is that fans are constantly expecting an OHMYGODTHISISSOGROUNDBREAKING EXPERIENCE, and I just think that's an impossible expectation to live up to.
Someone made a thread a while back asking the forum if ti was necessary for DT to still innovate, so I'll just repost what I said there:
I don't think "reinventing" or pushing the boundaries of the prog metal genre should fall on them anymore. They've been around long enough to be well respected and revered as pioneers, but I think the ones to take the genre to new places will be the younger, newer groups.
-
Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?
As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun
I listened to the blu-ray version yesterday, and the dynamics were as expected (nothing exceptional, but good enough), so now I will be able to enjoy the music!
-
I am so glad my brain and/or ears are stupid enough that I can listen to pretty much anything and enjoy it if I like the music without letting things like dynamics and compression ruin the experience for me.
-
Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?
As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun
I listened to the blu-ray version yesterday, and the dynamics were as expected (nothing exceptional, but good enough), so now I will be able to enjoy the music!
Yup. It still doesn't sound amazing but it is a marked improvement.
-
I am so glad my brain and/or ears are stupid enough that I can listen to pretty much anything and enjoy it if I like the music without letting things like dynamics and compression ruin the experience for me.
Mine too, I can tell the dynamics are lacking but wow to hear everyone in the band with a separate tone again is so nice. The last few albums every instrument blended together to me, with DT12 being unlistenable. D/T is a fun listen, and I hope the next album has the same separation.
-
I think the problem DT has created for themselves is that fans are constantly expecting an OHMYGODTHISISSOGROUNDBREAKING EXPERIENCE, and I just think that's an impossible expectation to live up to.
That's a really good point. If they don't blow us away, then they've failed. Impossible expectations indeed.
Yes and yes. ADToE and the Astonishing are stellarly good. :metal
I finally got a good chance to listen to TA all the way through -- mostly without interruption (driving to and from my daughter's marching band competition last Saturday). It was a struggle, and I actually stopped the last track before it ended. There are 2-3 stellar tracks, and the rest of it is just...boring. There's SO MUCH sameness on the album. I may give it one last chance when I drive up to Fresno in a few weeks, but I'm pretty much ready to pack it in and deposit it down with FII and SC at the bottom of the discography.
-
I'm not sure I would like The Astonishing as a "driving" album. As much as I love the album and enjoy listening to it, I have to be in the right mood and in the right setting. In the car on a long drive generally isn't the best setting for me for a "prog band doing broadway musical format" type of album. I generally need something with more energy. Same reason I don't listen to Neal Morse's Jesus Christ - the Exorcist in that setting either. It just doesn't work for me. But on the other hand, TA is my go-to when I'm out on the bike trails for a 1-2 hour bike ride. It's just magic in that setting for me.
-
I'm not sure I would like The Astonishing as a "driving" album. As much as I love the album and enjoy listening to it, I have to be in the right mood and in the right setting. In the car on a long drive generally isn't the best setting for me for a "prog band doing broadway musical format" type of album. I generally need something with more energy. Same reason I don't listen to Neal Morse's Jesus Christ - the Exorcist in that setting either. It just doesn't work for me. But on the other hand, TA is my go-to when I'm out on the bike trails for a 1-2 hour bike ride. It's just magic in that setting for me.
Fair point, and I actually thought about it. Ideally, I'd like about 2 1/2 hours at home by myself with the lyrics booklet in hand, but that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
-
The better place is the "track description" page that used to be on DT.net, if you can find it. It provided a track-by-track walkthough of the story, which was more concise than the lyrics, but provided more info for figuring out what was going on. It used to be located at http://dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks, but apparently is no longer there. Not sure why.
-
The better place is the "track description" page that used to be on DT.net, if you can find it. It provided a track-by-track walkthough of the story, which was more concise than the lyrics, but provided more info for figuring out what was going on. It used to be located at http://dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks, but apparently is no longer there. Not sure why.
You can access that page (and I did earlier this week) by using the Wayback Machine (www.archive.org). It does explain the story very well (I couldn't really follow the story well just by listening). I miss the days of bringing an album home, putting it on, and just lying on my bed reading the lyrics along with the songs.
-
Similarly, I miss the days when my eyes were good enough that I could actually read what was in the lyric books. :biggrin:
-
I'm not sure I would like The Astonishing as a "driving" album. As much as I love the album and enjoy listening to it, I have to be in the right mood and in the right setting. In the car on a long drive generally isn't the best setting for me for a "prog band doing broadway musical format" type of album. I generally need something with more energy. Same reason I don't listen to Neal Morse's Jesus Christ - the Exorcist in that setting either. It just doesn't work for me. But on the other hand, TA is my go-to when I'm out on the bike trails for a 1-2 hour bike ride. It's just magic in that setting for me.
Fair point, and I actually thought about it. Ideally, I'd like about 2 1/2 hours at home by myself with the lyrics booklet in hand, but that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
This is how I listened to it the first time through. I told my family I was not available, locked myself in my room, put on my best pair of headphones, layed in bed with the lyrics and story all printed out and just... listened. This'll sound over dramatic but it was a magical experience, and not in the Disney sort of way.
-
I'm not sure I would like The Astonishing as a "driving" album. As much as I love the album and enjoy listening to it, I have to be in the right mood and in the right setting. In the car on a long drive generally isn't the best setting for me for a "prog band doing broadway musical format" type of album. I generally need something with more energy. Same reason I don't listen to Neal Morse's Jesus Christ - the Exorcist in that setting either. It just doesn't work for me. But on the other hand, TA is my go-to when I'm out on the bike trails for a 1-2 hour bike ride. It's just magic in that setting for me.
Fair point, and I actually thought about it. Ideally, I'd like about 2 1/2 hours at home by myself with the lyrics booklet in hand, but that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
This is how I listened to it the first time through. I told my family I was not available, locked myself in my room, put on my best pair of headphones, layed in bed with the lyrics and story all printed out and just... listened. This'll sound over dramatic but it was a magical experience, and not in the Disney sort of way.
Exactly, its why I wish they could do a full on Broadway musical.
-
I am so glad my brain and/or ears are stupid enough that I can listen to pretty much anything and enjoy it if I like the music without letting things like dynamics and compression ruin the experience for me.
I'm with you. I know a bunch of fans found DT12 hard to listen to because of the compression/loudness, but it doesn't bother me at all and Metallica's Death Magnetic doesn't bother me either, clipping and all :)
-
Similarly, I miss the days when my eyes were good enough that I could actually read what was in the lyric books. :biggrin:
Reading glasses are wonderful things!
-
Minor quibbles aside, I agree in spirit with lovethedrake. I am a big fan of all four albums they have done with Mangini, and not many bands can say their 11th through 14th studio albums as a 4-album run is as good as ADTOE, DT12, TA and D/T, but they are prog metal legends (by and large) because of 1992-2002. I won't say they ever lost their way, but there was definitely some slippage the last few years of the Portnoy era, and I think it's clear that his departure combined with the addition of Mangini gave them the kick in the pants that they were needing.
Agreed 100%. It's like around SC-BC&SL they were all over the highway, weaving between lanes.... And since 2011, they've settled in to the lane they feel happiest and most comfortable in, and set the cruise control at 65. (Maybe TA was them trying the express lane for a bit, and taking the off-ramp for some grub). I don't mean that part about the cruise control in a negative way. I think that's the best most anyone could hope for at that stage in their life and career. Other bands are going to blow by them, take a more popular route, but they aren't going to sacrifice going erratically for stability when they feel that's the best way to get where they are headed.
I suck at analogies.
-
Minor quibbles aside, I agree in spirit with lovethedrake. I am a big fan of all four albums they have done with Mangini, and not many bands can say their 11th through 14th studio albums as a 4-album run is as good as ADTOE, DT12, TA and D/T, but they are prog metal legends (by and large) because of 1992-2002. I won't say they ever lost their way, but there was definitely some slippage the last few years of the Portnoy era, and I think it's clear that his departure combined with the addition of Mangini gave them the kick in the pants that they were needing.
Agreed 100%. It's like around SC-BC&SL they were all over the highway, weaving between lanes.... And since 2011, they've settled in to the lane they feel happiest and most comfortable in, and set the cruise control at 65. (Maybe TA was them trying the express lane for a bit, and taking the off-ramp for some grub). I don't mean that part about the cruise control in a negative way. I think that's the best most anyone could hope for at that stage in their life and career. Other bands are going to blow by them, take a more popular route, but they aren't going to sacrifice going erratically for stability when they feel that's the best way to get where they are headed.
I suck at analogies.
I see what you're saying though, so it works I guess.
-
Even if I agree on the fact I had high and lows with systematic chaos / black cloud & SL / the astonishing...
I don't feel that DT "died" after TOT, because when they try stuff, people complain it's different, when they do typical DT, people say they redid X album track by track.
To each his own, D/T is super strong, the only little things that bother me are CD audio dynamics compared to bluray and the song order on the disk :)
Can't wait to see them live in 2020 and I think the blend of all the eras is gonna be awesome !
-
The album has grown on me over time; it is my favorite Mangini album. This album is best enjoyed driving fast with the windows down on a long, straight country road.
-
Similarly, I miss the days when my eyes were good enough that I could actually read what was in the lyric books. :biggrin:
Reading glasses are wonderful things!
I actually swiped a magnifying glass from my step son for those hard to read passages... :)
-
Listened to the album for the first time in a little while yesterday, and I still think this is the most "fun" DT album they've ever done. They sound so relaxed and completely dialed in, and it shows throughout the record. I hope the next record has that same vibe and energy.
-
I'm with you romdrums. Listened to DOT for the first time in months today. The record is still fresh, still good. They really nailed a great balance on this one.
-
https://soundcloud.com/everymanpodcast/41-james-labrie-dream-theater
This is a new podcast with James LaBrie. I listened it.
To who can't listen whole podcast I take some interesting notes.
*James mentions his vocal practices. Like eating habit, sleeping habit (he says he is an insomaniac), walking or else.
*James feels he sounds better than Astonishing and I&W anniversary tour.
*James thinks he has to take more control over his voice to keep it for older ages.
*James re-works with Jamie Vandera again (he actually made a working calender with him yesterday before podcast)
*James knows his voice is not some of cup of tea. Understands the criticisms, even negative and mean ones.
*James literally said "yeah I have nights sounds like shit too" like any other vocalists and hopes he's never been remembered for his off nights.
*James' next solo album is going to be like EoP, much more keyboard orianted album. Have ideas and in one years he hopes to release.
Other than those, his musical history (winter rose to solo projects), vocal incidents, band enviroment, tours, next album ideas and his personal view of music.
-
*James knows his voice is not some of cup of tea. Understands the criticisms, even negative and mean ones.
*James literally said "yeah I have nights sounds like shit too" like any other vocalists and hopes he's never been remembered for his off nights.
That makes me respect him even more.
-
Blah, I hate Vendera. The notes he coaches people to hit are impressive, but the vowels and the tone really suffer in everything I've ever seen of his coaching work. Good news about the solo albums, the pop melodeath thing was very fun but after two albums it's time to take it down a notch, especially since I presume Matt Guillory is going to be doing the same thing on his own solo album.
Gonna listen later, I love hearing James talk.
-
https://soundcloud.com/everymanpodcast/41-james-labrie-dream-theater
This is a new podcast with James LaBrie. I listened it.
To who can't listen whole podcast I take some interesting notes.
*James mentions his vocal practices. Like eating habit, sleeping habit (he says he is an insomaniac), walking or else.
*James feels he sounds better than Astonishing and I&W anniversary tour.
*James thinks he has to take more control over his voice to keep it for older ages.
*James re-works with Jamie Vandera again (he actually made a working calender with him yesterday before podcast)
*James knows his voice is not some of cup of tea. Understands the criticisms, even negative and mean ones.
*James literally said "yeah I have nights sounds like shit too" like any other vocalists and hopes he's never been remembered for his off nights.
*James' next solo album is going to be like EoP, much more keyboard orianted album. Have ideas and in one years he hopes to release.
Other than those, his musical history (winter rose to solo projects), vocal incidents, band enviroment, tours, next album ideas and his personal view of music.
James is one class act. I know he struggles, but when he's good, he's really good. Especially on the albums. I love his voice and so does my whole family. I couldn't imagine DT without him.
-
Me either. And he was very friendly when I met him at age 12. (as were JP and Jordan)
-
Me either. And he was very friendly when I met him at age 12. (as were JP and Jordan)
Same here, he's the only DT member I met 'cause I caught him touring solo, and he was absolutely kind and receptive. I even said about my bunch of booklets "Well, do you want to maybe sign them after the show?" to not take up much of his time, and he replied "I'm here now, let's just do it" while he could have just saved himself the trouble to sign several DT and solo booklets.
-
9 months after release, this album holds up well. I was kind of feeling like I had overplayed it a bit early on, and that as much fun as the songs were to listen to, they might not have much staying power. But my interest in the album is really getting a strong second wind after seeing the last tour, and I'm really enjoying the songs a lot.
-
9 months after release, this album holds up well. I was kind of feeling like I had overplayed it a bit early on, and that as much fun as the songs were to listen to, they might not have much staying power. But my interest in the album is really getting a strong second wind after seeing the last tour, and I'm really enjoying the songs a lot.
Amen. I really do think it will grow to become a classic for most people. It seems it has everything people love about DT, and also a bit more mainstream appeal in a way. For me personally, it's up there:
1. Images and Words
2. Awake
3. SFAM
4. Distance Over Time
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
7. Train of Thought
8. Self-Titled
9. ADTOE
10. WDADU
The rest...
>>>And bosk, you know how I feel about DT. For them to do a record that connects with me NOW, after so many years of just not feeling what they were doing, that means something.
-
I lost my copy about four months ago as I left my CD in the case sitting on top of my car at night. It flew off onto the road somewhere and probably ended up in a ditch or ran over. I haven't listened to it since.
I guess I'll have to order the new version with the CD and the bluray with videos.
-
9 months after release, this album holds up well. I was kind of feeling like I had overplayed it a bit early on, and that as much fun as the songs were to listen to, they might not have much staying power. But my interest in the album is really getting a strong second wind after seeing the last tour, and I'm really enjoying the songs a lot.
My favorite song from the album is still Out of Reach.
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
-
9 months after release, this album holds up well. I was kind of feeling like I had overplayed it a bit early on, and that as much fun as the songs were to listen to, they might not have much staying power. But my interest in the album is really getting a strong second wind after seeing the last tour, and I'm really enjoying the songs a lot.
My favorite song from the album is still Out of Reach.
Out of Reach really grew on me. Which surprised me a bit. It's not my favorite on the album, but I do really like it.
Currently my favorite is S2N.
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
:rollin
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
:lol
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
:clap:
-
That’s it, close the thread :rollin
-
I agree, it still holds up well for me. My favourite track off it is Fall Into The Light.
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
Pale Blue Dot :rollin
-
Just listen to it more, and I'm sure it won't feel as distant. But which song is it?
Pale Blue Dot :rollin
Yep, that's about as distant as they come :lol
-
In the midst of listening again. It has held up extremely well. The songs are so cohesive. Hands down best drumming on a DT album. Definitely in the top 3 with Awake and SFAM. A great mix of emotion, complex playing within the context of the song and amazing singing.
-
The best since SFAM.
-
The best since SFAM.
Wow! That is quite the assessment. I'm still working on ranking it (it's still a little too new for me to rank it properly). But I really love the album and congrats to DT for producing something so masterful this late in their career.
-
The best since SFAM.
here's a controversial opinion for you: D/T is my least favourite of the MM era (although I respect your opinion of course), I'm interested to hear what will happen in DT15. And I agree: D/T being the best since Met2 is a bold statement. (as you'll see now)
-
Hi, I wanted to share my thoughts so far about this album. I don't write a lot on this forum but I AM a huge Dream Theater fan since almost 20 years now!!!
I'll start off by saying that I don't have the physical CD as of yet. I listened to the whole album on youtube (official DT channel) 2-3 times already and I'm just STARTING to like it very much! Just in case somebody is asking how many DT CD's do I have, I think I must have 20 or more (albums, singles, fan club releases, live albums, DVD's, japanese versions of albums).
For some reasons I felt this album was good when I first listened to it, but not more than good. I really liked The Astonishing because I thought it was a bold move from DT and a different experience. I still listen to The Astonishing quite often. I also liked the self titled one too. But Distance Over Time left me kinda cold at first. I thought the SOUND was awesome in my headphones but that was the only thing that grabbed me.
Now fast forward some months later, I started revisit this album and I really like some songs. Untethered Angel, Room 137 & Viper King are REALLY great songs with a lot of groove and attitude :)
Right now I'm looking for the version of the physical CD that I'd want the most : regular 9 tracks CD, limited edition digipak or even the book with the DVD's.............So that's where I am now! This album have grown on me since it's release and almost 1 year will have passed before I have it in my hands. Shame on me some would say, but I guess the good part of it is that it won't be that long of a wait for me between the day I'll have Distance Over Time in my hands and the day I'll have THE NEXT ALBUM in my hands (in 2022 if I'm counting it right :)).
That's it for today.
Thanks for reading :)
-
The best since SFAM.
I'm inclined to say it's their best since Six Degrees.
-
I rank it as the 3rd best DT album, but still only the best since BC&SL :lol
-
As I said above, I lost my copy of d/t four months ago. I don't think I could listen to it right now anyway.
When I first got the album, I would take my dog with me to the river in my old toyota Carolla through the woods on the property I live on. I would park near the shore and let her out to play at her favorite place. In the meantime, I would open all four doors and blast d/t through the car stereo and that's how I got to know the album really well.
My dog suddenly passed away early September at a young age. If I listened to the album right now, it would spark all those memories of those great moments with her at the river
and probably make me too emotional. I love the album, but there's now some heavy stuff connected to it for me personally. :(
-
I might say it is their best since The Astonishing. :P
This is one of those cases where in my head I think that Distance over Time is probably the better album, but it has never owned my CD player like TA did for much of 2016.
-
As I said above, I lost my copy of d/t four months ago. I don't think I could listen to it right now anyway.
When I first got the album, I would take my dog with me to the river in my old toyota Carolla through the woods on the property I live on. I would park near the shore and let her out to play at her favorite place. In the meantime, I would open all four doors and blast d/t through the car stereo and that's how I got to know the album really well.
My dog suddenly passed away early September at a young age. If I listened to the album right now, it would spark all those memories of those great moments with her at the river
and probably make me too emotional. I love the album, but there's now some heavy stuff connected to it for me personally. :(
I don't even know what to say to that. That's the saddest thing I've heard all year. I'm really sorry.
-
Now fast forward some months later, I started revisit this album and I really like some songs. Untethered Angel, Room 137 & Viper King are REALLY great songs with a lot of groove and attitude :)
Right now I'm looking for the version of the physical CD that I'd want the most : regular 9 tracks CD, limited edition digipak or even the book with the DVD's.............So that's where I am now!
Those two songs are not what I expected, and both were a nice surprises. Specially Viper King. Great jam!
-
The best since SFAM.
I'm inclined to say it's their best since Six Degrees.
I agree with this statement regarding best since SDOIT
-
As I said above, I lost my copy of d/t four months ago. I don't think I could listen to it right now anyway.
When I first got the album, I would take my dog with me to the river in my old toyota Carolla through the woods on the property I live on. I would park near the shore and let her out to play at her favorite place. In the meantime, I would open all four doors and blast d/t through the car stereo and that's how I got to know the album really well.
My dog suddenly passed away early September at a young age. If I listened to the album right now, it would spark all those memories of those great moments with her at the river
and probably make me too emotional. I love the album, but there's now some heavy stuff connected to it for me personally. :(
I don't even know what to say to that. That's the saddest thing I've heard all year. I'm really sorry.
Thanks so much! :heart
-
So sad to hear all of that, Architeuthis. Stay strong.
I might say it is their best since The Astonishing. :P
Absolutely. As solid as Distance over time is, The Astonishing was on a completely different level.
-
As I said above, I lost my copy of d/t four months ago. I don't think I could listen to it right now anyway.
When I first got the album, I would take my dog with me to the river in my old toyota Carolla through the woods on the property I live on. I would park near the shore and let her out to play at her favorite place. In the meantime, I would open all four doors and blast d/t through the car stereo and that's how I got to know the album really well.
My dog suddenly passed away early September at a young age. If I listened to the album right now, it would spark all those memories of those great moments with her at the river
and probably make me too emotional. I love the album, but there's now some heavy stuff connected to it for me personally. :(
condolences
-
So sad to hear all of that, Architeuthis. Stay strong.
I might say it is their best since The Astonishing. :P
Absolutely. As solid as Distance over time is, The Astonishing was on a completely different level.
Yep, The Astonishing is pretty great. It currently sits in my top 3. I understand the criticisms surrounding it, but dang it's amazing!
-
Sorry for your loss Arch, that's very upsetting and sucks even more that you'll now have this emotional attachment to the music, at the same time, it's pretty powerful how you can attach emotions in real life to music like that. In some ways, that shows how good the music is. Hopefully you can come around one day and enjoy it without feeling upset.
-
Sorry for your loss Arch, that's very upsetting and sucks even more that you'll now have this emotional attachment to the music, at the same time, it's pretty powerful how you can attach emotions in real life to music like that. In some ways, that shows how good the music is. Hopefully you can come around one day and enjoy it without feeling upset.
Thanks everyone!
Yeah I could probably listen to some of the heavier tracks and be ok. The middle section of Fall into the Light with the melodic keyboards and powerful guitar solo would make me tear up. I remember looking up at the trees and the evening sky during that section and all the scenery with my dog by the riverside saying to myself "life is good". Barstool Warrior also has the same effect for some reason.
I don't think I could handle At Wits End at this time,, epecially the "don't leave me now" part..
-
Sorry for your loss Arch, that's very upsetting and sucks even more that you'll now have this emotional attachment to the music, at the same time, it's pretty powerful how you can attach emotions in real life to music like that. In some ways, that shows how good the music is. Hopefully you can come around one day and enjoy it without feeling upset.
Thanks everyone!
Yeah I could probably listen to some of the heavier tracks and be ok. The middle section of Fall into the Light with the melodic keyboards and powerful guitar solo would make me tear up. I remember looking up at the trees and the evening sky during that section and all the scenery with my dog by the riverside saying to myself "life is good". Barstool Warrior also has the same effect for some reason.
I don't think I could handle At Wits End at this time,, epecially the "don't leave me now" part..
you will, over time (pun not intended), I'm sure.
-
The best since SFAM.
I agree which was the best since Awake. :)
-
So sad to hear all of that, Architeuthis. Stay strong.
I might say it is their best since The Astonishing. :P
Absolutely. As solid as Distance over time is, The Astonishing was on a completely different level.
Yep, The Astonishing is pretty great. It currently sits in my top 3. I understand the criticisms surrounding it, but dang it's amazing!
Nice to hear some love for TA. Im still saddened by the fact there is so much negativity about it...DOT is little behind it for me so Im happy with the latest deliveries from the band! No pointless noodling, just concise, how nice!
-
I actually enjoy TA slightly more than D/T as well. It's close for sure though.
-
Just here to show some love to the self-titled :metal
-
Just here to show some love to the self-titled :metal
I'm right behind you Gabriel
-
I actually enjoy TA slightly more than D/T as well. It's close for sure though.
Same here. While DOT is more consistent in its quality, The Astonishing just has some absolutely brilliant material.
-
Played DoT a counter of times this week. First plays since the release extended honeymoon ended. Was curious to know how it would go and...
It's bloody great! Still my go-to DT album. Got them truly back on track since (for me) a very patchy and wobbly 15 years since 6D. Love it.
-
Just here to show some love to the self-titled :metal
I'm right behind you Gabriel
Yeah, it's got some pretty great songs on it. I remember when the video for TEI came out on Youtube, and in the comments someone was commenting on JP's solo and asked if it was Joe Satriani. Of course he was educated by others on the greatness of JP in pretty quick order :).
Although not my favorite DT album, it is awesome in many ways and I don't mind the way it sounds either.
-
I love the sound of DT12! :tup
-
I love the sound of DT12! :tup
(https://i.imgflip.com/15b7jc.jpg)
-
I love the sound of DT12! :tup
DOT's mix is miles above DT12's but I think the criticism was way overblown back then. It's fine, it rocks.
The mix does not stop me from enjoying the music at any level.
-
I love the sound of DT12! :tup
DOT's mix is miles above DT12's but I think the criticism was way overblown back then. It's fine, it rocks.
The mix does not stop me from enjoying the music at any level.
I agree. In fact the guitar sound has a lot of punch, which I like. And the snare doesn't bother me.
But, having said that, D/T certainly sounds better. And it does deserve all the praise it's getting.
-
I think SC and BCSL both sound worse than DT12. I don’t hear people criticize the production on those albums the same way.
-
I think the biggest issue I have with the DT12 mix is that there are too many points the instruments feel like they're fighting each other instead of having their own space in the mix. It's not unlistenable or anything, but it sounds a lot more "we don't know what we're doing"-y than all their other albums except maybe WD&DU.
The instruments sound fine individually yes, but that's not really the point of a "mix", is it. :lol
-
I think SC and BCSL both sound worse than DT12. I don’t hear people criticize the production on those albums the same way.
That’s because there’s nothing wrong with the production on those albums except being loud and Portnoy being mixed too hot. The snare on DT12 alone puts it amongst the worst sounding DT albums.
-
I think the biggest issue I have with the DT12 mix is that there are too many points the instruments feel like they're fighting each other instead of having their own space in the mix. It's not unlistenable or anything, but it sounds a lot more "we don't know what we're doing"-y than all their other albums except maybe WD&DU.
The instruments sound fine individually yes, but that's not really the point of a "mix", is it. :lol
As much as I love JP, those are his production decisions. Some fresh ears wouldn't hurt for future releases, but I don't think it's too likely to happen at this point.
I can listen to DT12 with no issues, but it's true it's not one of their best sounding albums. By far.
-
I think DT12 is definitely the worse sounding album after WDADU.
So many bad production decisions, and the snare alone is ruining everything.
-
DT12 is probably still my favorite MM-era album. But the new one is climbing the charts.
-
I think DT12 is definitely the worse sounding album after WDADU.
So many bad production decisions, and the snare alone is ruining everything.
Agreed, I don't know who on earth would like this snare.
Have you guys heard that play along video of MM of The Enemy Inside (of course you guys have)? Suddenly this track gets a a lot more groove. I hate when people say MM can't groove - he CAN, it's just that weird compressed drum sound that ruins it.
Proof 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTYWwqchhQ
Proof 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDY0hjky7i0 f.e. minute 3:00 and 4:40.
-
I think DT12 is definitely the worse sounding album after WDADU.
So many bad production decisions, and the snare alone is ruining everything.
Agreed, I don't know who on earth would like this snare.
Have you guys heard that play along video of MM of The Enemy Inside (of course you guys have)? Suddenly this track gets a a lot more groove. I hate when people say MM can't groove - he CAN, it's just that weird compressed drum sound that ruins it.
Proof 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTYWwqchhQ
Proof 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDY0hjky7i0 f.e. minute 3:00 and 4:40.
He's so good. This is one of DT's best singles IMO that gets very little love.
-
I think DT12 is definitely the worse sounding album after WDADU.
So many bad production decisions, and the snare alone is ruining everything.
Agreed, I don't know who on earth would like this snare.
Have you guys heard that play along video of MM of The Enemy Inside (of course you guys have)? Suddenly this track gets a a lot more groove. I hate when people say MM can't groove - he CAN, it's just that weird compressed drum sound that ruins it.
Proof 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTYWwqchhQ
Proof 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDY0hjky7i0 f.e. minute 3:00 and 4:40.
He's so good. This is one of DT's best singles IMO that gets very little love.
I'm here to compensate.
-
Last DT album I'd loved was ADTOE. I like D/T more than DT12 & TA, but still don't think is great. I'd put it in that "grey area" with BC&SL and Octavarium. Some good moments but not a cohesive work.
-
I think DT12 is definitely the worse sounding album after WDADU.
So many bad production decisions, and the snare alone is ruining everything.
Agreed, I don't know who on earth would like this snare.
Have you guys heard that play along video of MM of The Enemy Inside (of course you guys have)? Suddenly this track gets a a lot more groove. I hate when people say MM can't groove - he CAN, it's just that weird compressed drum sound that ruins it.
Proof 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTYWwqchhQ
Proof 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDY0hjky7i0 f.e. minute 3:00 and 4:40.
He's so good. This is one of DT's best singles IMO that gets very little love.
I'm here to compensate.
Me as well. I didn't like TEI very much when I first heard it. It took a while to grow on me and now I love it and always crank the volume when it comes on in my play list. And, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it also get nominated for a Grammy?
-
And, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it also get nominated for a Grammy?
Yes, On The Backs Of Angels and The Enemy Inside are Dream Theater's two Grammy nominations (for "Best Metal Performance"), but they didn't win either of them, losing to Foo Fighters and Black Sabbath respectively.
(I looked that up btw. I don't have that kind of info on memory. :lol)
-
At this point, it feels like Distance over Time is similar to A Dramatic Turn of Events, for my tastes, in this way:
-Tracks 1 and 2 on both albums are all solid tunes, but none are essential, and I never seek out any of them on their own.
-Both have two really, really good songs that I would say don't quite make my DT top 25, but are good enough to be called modern day DT classics (Bridges in the Sky, Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, At Wit's End).
-My 3rd favorite song on each album is a slower song (ballad or whatever) that is pretty damn good (This Is the Life and Out of Reach).
-Both have a couple of highly technical songs that I like, but don't love (Lost Not Forgotten, Outcry, S2N, Pale Blue Dot).
-I have minor issues with the sound of both (ADTOE is a bit too dry and muddy, DoT is a bit too hot).
-
At this point, it feels like Distance over Time is similar to A Dramatic Turn of Events, for my tastes, in this way:
-Tracks 1 and 2 on both albums are all solid tunes, but none are essential, and I never seek out any of them on their own.
-Both have two really, really good songs that I would say don't quite make my DT top 25, but are good enough to be called modern day DT classics (Bridges in the Sky, Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, At Wit's End).
-My 3rd favorite song on each album is a slower song (ballad or whatever) that is pretty damn good (This Is the Life and Out of Reach).
-Both have a couple of highly technical songs that I like, but don't love (Lost Not Forgotten, Outcry, S2N, Pale Blue Dot).
-I have minor issues with the sound of both (ADTOE is a bit too dry and muddy, DoT is a bit too hot).
I get this feeling totally! I think that both of these albums are BETTER than the self titled one. I put The Astonishing in another category because it is really different than a «regular» Dream Theater album.
Tx
-
Listening to DoT again and...it’s odd because it really is a great album, but I don’t think there’s one top 20 song on there. It’s like an entire album of songs that would be in my 30s and 40s if I were to rank them all. All very solid songs, just...not anything amazing, if that makes sense. It feels very “middle of the road”. Nothing weak at all imo, but nothing amazing either.
-
Found it on Facebook :lol
(https://scontent.flim9-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/80087564_183338569453284_397813722225049600_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ohc=9kmIdqPafYEAQkVIB_V8Na_M_ctWMjRs63WxQgxSOuK65mPfsUD3TP5rw&_nc_ht=scontent.flim9-1.fna&oh=79808499f80b784c33f2ec692d5c3c5c&oe=5E7B4321)
-
Listening to DoT again and...it’s odd because it really is a great album, but I don’t think there’s one top 20 song on there. It’s like an entire album of songs that would be in my 30s and 40s if I were to rank them all. All very solid songs, just...not anything amazing, if that makes sense. It feels very “middle of the road”. Nothing weak at all imo, but nothing amazing either.
I'm kind of with you on this. Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
-
Listening to DoT again and...it’s odd because it really is a great album, but I don’t think there’s one top 20 song on there. It’s like an entire album of songs that would be in my 30s and 40s if I were to rank them all. All very solid songs, just...not anything amazing, if that makes sense. It feels very “middle of the road”. Nothing weak at all imo, but nothing amazing either.
I'm kind of with you on this. Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
For me, At Wit's End is up there, not sure where though, but overall I don't disagree that it's a collection of good songs but not necessarily the best songs DT has done. But I also think DT's catalog of music is so strong, to break top 20 is already something really difficult to do. Making an album full of 30/40 songs is still pretty strong, but at the end of the day, the album as a whole is somewhere in the middle of the ranks for me (probably upper half though).
-
Listening to DoT again and...it’s odd because it really is a great album, but I don’t think there’s one top 20 song on there. It’s like an entire album of songs that would be in my 30s and 40s if I were to rank them all. All very solid songs, just...not anything amazing, if that makes sense. It feels very “middle of the road”. Nothing weak at all imo, but nothing amazing either.
I'm kind of with you on this. Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
For me, At Wit's End is up there, not sure where though, but overall I don't disagree that it's a collection of good songs but not necessarily the best songs DT has done. But I also think DT's catalog of music is so strong, to break top 20 is already something really difficult to do. Making an album full of 30/40 songs is still pretty strong, but at the end of the day, the album as a whole is somewhere in the middle of the ranks for me (probably upper half though).
Very true. There's just SO much to choose from.....and it's a ton of great music. Such a great problem to have :lol
-
Exactly, my comment was actually a compliment to the band having such massive and strong amount of material and even a compliment to D/T as landing in the upper half means it's a really good album for me.
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
Exactly why I like TA more than D/T. D/T is very good, but I couldn't put TA down for the longest time. It took awhile to really love it, but once I did, I really did love it which made the second time seeing it live all the much better and cemented it as one of my favorites from them.
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
Exactly why I like TA more than D/T. D/T is very good, but I couldn't put TA down for the longest time. It took awhile to really love it, but once I did, I really did love it which made the second time seeing it live all the much better and cemented it as one of my favorites from them.
seeing it live helped me appreciate it more (same as in your case), I appreciated it for what it was already, but the live show went the extra kilometer in that respect for me
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
Exactly why I like TA more than D/T. D/T is very good, but I couldn't put TA down for the longest time. It took awhile to really love it, but once I did, I really did love it which made the second time seeing it live all the much better and cemented it as one of my favorites from them.
seeing it live helped me appreciate it more (same as in your case), I appreciated it for what it was already, but the live show went the extra kilometer in that respect for me
This. I 'really liked' TA when it came out. BUT.....when I saw it live it was just SO GOOD. Honestly, I think it was a CD/Story written to see live. Simple audio doesn't do it justice. The live performance was just incredible.
-
The performance was great, but the first time I saw it, at the Radio City Music Hall, I felt the atmosphere was terrible. With all the ushers yelling at people to sit and shut up or put the phone away, the vibe was killed for me. However, the second time, I got front row so none of that stuff could bother me and I just zoned out and fell in love with the performance. It felt like they were playing to me and me alone. Maybe it's because I've never seen a band I loved so much from the front row, or maybe it's because of that theater vibe of everyone sitting, and I did sit in the front row (no choice in the matter, ushers made us sit) that I just was so absorbed into the show. Helped that JP shook my hand before getting off stage which cemented it as probably my favorite DT show ever.
I told myself on the last SFAM tour, that it was front row or bust having seen the show twice before. The only way I was going to top those experiences was to be up front and it just wasn't meant to be.
-
The performance was great, but the first time I saw it, at the Radio City Music Hall, I felt the atmosphere was terrible. With all the ushers yelling at people to sit and shut up or put the phone away, the vibe was killed for me.
I remember that show. I got yelled at for taking my phone out, wasn’t even taking a picture lol
-
I have a similar opinion as a lot of you have said the last few days. It normally takes me a while to rant a DT album so I still don't know where D/T lands, but it most likely isn't in my top 4 or 5. Although, speaking about it right now, it's stand out tracks for me are FItL, S2N, AWE and OoR. At least those are the ones that have really stuck to me so far.
I also agree that TA live was absolutely amazing. Skunk-weed behind me, and friendly drunks in front. That plus the amazing music and great show just made the experience awesome. TA is in my top 3 albums and will probably never be dethroned. Every time I give it a spin I think "oh, I forgot about that part!" There is just so much very good music.
I will probably need another year or two to finally place D/T and some of those songs I mentioned may become permanent classics for me eventually. Who knows.
-
I was in Florida last week and came across artwork on the side of a building that resembled the cover for Distance Over Time. It was the venue for Palm Beach Dramaworks. They must be DT fans. :D
(https://i.ibb.co/vVFHD8b/Florida91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmrKnt9)
-
I was in Florida last week and came across artwork on the side of a building that resembled the cover for Distance Over Time. It was the venue for Palm Beach Dramaworks. They must be DT fans. :D
(https://i.ibb.co/vVFHD8b/Florida91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmrKnt9)
NYT strikes again :lol
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
I still haven’t listened to TA in its entirety. I barely even listened to it at all tbh. I can’t get past the cheesy fantasy story stuff, and everyone said the album was bad, so I kind of just...never got through it. I do plan on it eventually, but...meh. I’m kind of ashamed to admit it with DT being my second favorite band of all time, but yeah, I pretty much skipped it when it came out and haven’t gone back to it.
-
I was in Florida last week and came across artwork on the side of a building that resembled the cover for Distance Over Time. It was the venue for Palm Beach Dramaworks. They must be DT fans. :D
(https://i.ibb.co/vVFHD8b/Florida91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmrKnt9)
Well, it's not a robot hand...so I'll just assume that they're referencing Hamlet. The actual original idea.
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
I still haven’t listened to TA in its entirety. I barely even listened to it at all tbh. I can’t get past the cheesy fantasy story stuff, and everyone said the album was bad, so I kind of just...never got through it. I do plan on it eventually, but...meh. I’m kind of ashamed to admit it with DT being my second favorite band of all time, but yeah, I pretty much skipped it when it came out and haven’t gone back to it.
There's a ton of great music on The Astonishing. Parse through what you like on it. I made an abridged version that I'd put up against any other DT album.
-
Don't know where I'd 'rank' them as far as all time DT songs.....but they are a group of really good, fun songs to listen to yet I don't revisit them all that much? When I do....I love them....but I'm not compelled to revisit them like I am to other DT material. It's odd.
Same for me. Like you, I have so much to choose from, and who has the time to listen to all of the good music nowadays, but Distance over Time has barely gotten any play from me since I saw Dream Theater 2 1/2 months ago. Quite a contrast to The Astonishing, which was still getting regular plays in my CD player well over a year after its release.
I still haven’t listened to TA in its entirety. I barely even listened to it at all tbh. I can’t get past the cheesy fantasy story stuff, and everyone said the album was bad, so I kind of just...never got through it. I do plan on it eventually, but...meh. I’m kind of ashamed to admit it with DT being my second favorite band of all time, but yeah, I pretty much skipped it when it came out and haven’t gone back to it.
There's a ton of great music on The Astonishing. Parse through what you like on it. I made an abridged version that I'd put up against any other DT album.
100% agree.
-
Like Northern Lion, it'll probably also take me a while to really rank Distance Over Time. I don't really have a set in stone ranking of DT albums anyway. But I will say that things are looking pretty favorable for the new one. I just listened to it recently and thoroughly enjoyed it, and was a little disappointed when it was over so soon. So I listened to it again. Great album.
-
I just popped into say that the bass and guitar tones that JM and JP selected for AWE are just perfect and I'd like to see them do that more in the future. JP's tone leaves enough sonic space for JM to occupy that you can hear Myung attacking the strings. Subsequently, the riff that begins at 0:49 is powerful and aggressive without getting muddy. I just love it! :metal
-
I can't believe D/T has now been out for almost a whole year. I know Feb. 22nd is still over a month away, so I'm a little early on the anniversary. But what a great album! I am absolutely loving the Mangini era!
I'm planning on listening to nothing but D/T on Feb 8th. And here's a question, do any of you do that with any other DT album? I am thinking I might start doing that this year and listen to DT's albums on the day they were released.
But... maybe that's just a goofy idea.
-
I can't believe D/T has now been out for almost a whole year. I know Feb. 8th is still a little over a month away, so I'm a little early on the anniversary. But what a great album! I am absolutely loving the Mangini era!
I'm planning on listening to nothing but D/T on Feb 8th. And here's a question, do any of you do that with any other DT album? I am thinking I might start doing that this year and listen to DT's albums on the day they were released.
But... maybe that's just a goofy idea.
D/T was released on February 22nd, fyi :P
-
Well, I read wikipedia wrong :). Fixed :tup
-
I can't believe D/T has now been out for almost a whole year. I know Feb. 8th is still a little over a month away, so I'm a little early on the anniversary. But what a great album! I am absolutely loving the Mangini era!
I'm planning on listening to nothing but D/T on Feb 8th. And here's a question, do any of you do that with any other DT album? I am thinking I might start doing that this year and listen to DT's albums on the day they were released.
But... maybe that's just a goofy idea.
D/T was released on February 22nd, fyi :P
I just listened to this today while doing some cleaning.
-
Well, on the 22nd - the anniversary - I will be watching them live! :metal
-
I finally acquired the d/t cd and blu-ray package. Just listened to the blu-ray version and the sound quality is like night and day. I can see what JP meant when he said that this is how the album is meant to be heard. I listened to it through my big home stereo and it just sounds so RICH and very pleasing to the ears. Like the equivalent of a fresh fluffy lemon cake with home made frosting. No matter how loud I crank the stereo, it never fatigued my ears like many cd's do. The graphics are a nice bonus to watch along with too, and how they go along with the stories of each song. ESPECIALLY Pale Blue Dot! :omg: :metal :metal :metal
That would be bad-ass to see on imax!
I hope this could be the wave of the future, albums being released on high def/audio format.
-
I finally acquired the d/t cd and blu-ray package. Just listened to the blu-ray version and the sound quality is like night and day. I can see what JP meant when he said that this is how the album is meant to be heard. I listened to it through my big home stereo and it just sounds so RICH and very pleasing to the ears. Like the equivalent of a fresh fluffy lemon cake with home made frosting. No matter how loud I crank the stereo, it never fatigued my ears like many cd's do. The graphics are a nice bonus to watch along with too, and how they go along with the stories of each song. ESPECIALLY Pale Blue Dot! :omg: :metal :metal :metal
That would be bad-ass to see on imax!
I hope this could be the wave of the future, albums being released on high def/audio format.
Wow, is PBD's annimation that good? I've gotten a little tired of the animation videos with this release, although I did really like Paralyzed one.
-
Yes, PBD's animation is really good imo. It's kind of hit and miss in the other songs, FITL is also really cool with the mountians and the water. The sound is STELLAR on blu-ray!
-
Happy 1st Anniversary to Distance Over Time! Will give it another listen later to commemorate it. :metal
-
Wowsers a year already!
-
1 year on and this album is still amazing. An absolute beast.
-
Distance Over Costco
(https://i.imgur.com/133D45l.jpg)
-
Food Court Warrior :metal
(I just sent this to JP :lol )
-
Food Court Warrior :metal
In a dark and lonely corner
of a mall once bright, now dim
sits the local food court warrior
aiming for the bin
tracing past decisions
he encounters a cleaning bot
is he doomed to be a man this world forgot
just a prisoner of the children on his back?
add in chorus as normal
-
Distance Over Costco
(https://i.imgur.com/133D45l.jpg)
Dang. I came here to post a similar pic.
-
Food Court Warrior :metal
In a dark and lonely corner
of a mall once bright, now dim
sits the local food court warrior
aiming for the bin
tracing past decisions
he encounters a cleaning bot
is he doomed to be a man this world forgot
just a prisoner of the children on his back?
add in chorus as normal
:hefdaddy
-
Food Court Warrior :metal
In a dark and lonely corner
of a mall once bright, now dim
sits the local food court warrior
aiming for the bin
tracing past decisions
he encounters a cleaning bot
is he doomed to be a man this world forgot
just a prisoner of the children on his back?
add in chorus as normal
:rollin
-
I'll never be able to listen to this song the same way ever again.
:rollin
-
^
:D to the lyrics and magazine
I came here because we listened to the album on a drive yesterday. I adjusted the album for my wife, having Room 137 'start' my side two, deleting S2N, and inserting Viper King before Pale Blue Dot. Yeah, I know, ...but at least I get to listen to it on occasions on drives with her.
I still hear an instrument in spots that I hadn't heard in my prior umpteen listens. The time and care they put into it shines. This LP is aging really well for me. Still sounds as fresh as day one.
I listened to DT12 last night for the first time since D/T was released. I can tell I didn't listen to it as much initially, or the years since, as I actually forgot a lot of segments and couldn't follow along with it many times.
-
^
:D to the lyrics and magazine
I came here because we listened to the album on a drive yesterday. I adjusted the album for my wife, having Room 137 'start' my side two, deleting S2N, and inserting Viper King before Pale Blue Dot. Yeah, I know, ...but at least I get to listen to it on occasions on drives with her.
I still hear an instrument in spots that I hadn't heard in my prior umpteen listens. The time and care they put into it shines. This LP is aging really well for me. Still sounds as fresh as day one.
I listened to DT12 last night for the first time since D/T was released. I can tell I didn't listen to it as much initially, or the years since, as I actually forgot a lot of segments and couldn't follow along with it many times.
You deleted S2N?!!!! That's one of my favorite songs on the album. But I get it, different strokes for different folks :).
I actually think putting Viper King before Pale Blue Dot makes a lot of sense. Pale Blue Dot is an excellent album closer. Of course that depends on whether you thing Viper King is part of the album proper, which I do even though it is labeled as a bonus track.
-
They used a stock photo on the cover, that's why it pops up elsewhere. Nothing to do with someone being a DT fan, the cover just wasn't really an original work.
-
We know, mang. That’s the joke :D
-
^
:D to the lyrics and magazine
I came here because we listened to the album on a drive yesterday. I adjusted the album for my wife, having Room 137 'start' my side two, deleting S2N, and inserting Viper King before Pale Blue Dot. Yeah, I know, ...but at least I get to listen to it on occasions on drives with her.
I still hear an instrument in spots that I hadn't heard in my prior umpteen listens. The time and care they put into it shines. This LP is aging really well for me. Still sounds as fresh as day one.
I listened to DT12 last night for the first time since D/T was released. I can tell I didn't listen to it as much initially, or the years since, as I actually forgot a lot of segments and couldn't follow along with it many times.
You deleted S2N?!!!! That's one of my favorite songs on the album. But I get it, different strokes for different folks :).
I actually think putting Viper King before Pale Blue Dot makes a lot of sense. Pale Blue Dot is an excellent album closer. Of course that depends on whether you thing Viper King is part of the album proper, which I do even though it is labeled as a bonus track.
I'm lucky....my wife and I are both in our 60s, Queen brought us together, but she is a ton more into mellow rock. She's gone to four DT concerts with me, but I don't push things 'too much'. That, and my boombox in the garage no longer plays CDs, so, in order to have a 60 minute cassette include VK and not cut out PBD at the end, S2N had to go. And I got used to that flow. But I do love S2N.
And VK does work between Out of Reach and PBD as a change. And it's fun. And I have a couple small models sitting around the house of that car and gave them as gifts. Being an ol' fart, I am soooo used to album sides, I'll insert silence in between tracks, and Rm 137 would have made an absolutely fab side two opener.
-
So I have had Distance Over Time in the car for the last week.
This is a really great album. So many excellent tunes.
I must say that At Wits End is incredible. It's a Top 5 tune of the Mangini Era for me. I still think it would've been better served to be the album closer, especially with the demo callback. Seems weird having that during the album.
-
So I have had Distance Over Time in the car for the last week.
This is a really great album. So many excellent tunes.
I must say that At Wits End is incredible. It's a Top 5 tune of the Mangini Era for me. I still think it would've been better served to be the album closer, especially with the demo callback. Seems weird having that during the album.
Yeah, I'm still spinning about once per month myself. Still dig it. S2N and AWE always grab my attention no matter what I'm doing. I've become fond of Pale Blue Dot--I didn't much care for it when the album first dropped. I pleased that it finally clicked. Now, I'm kinda the opposite with Viper King...it was a cool little ditty at first, but now I skip it.
-
Half of the album is Top Notch.
Fall Into The Light
Barstool Warrior
S2N
At Wits End
Pale Blue Dot
I do really like Viper King
I don't not like Untethered Angel. It's fine.
But I can definitely live without Paralyzed, Room 137, and Out Of Reach. Especially Out Of Reach. God does that song blow.
-
Half of the album is Top Notch.
Fall Into The Light
Barstool Warrior
S2N
At Wits End
Pale Blue Dot
I do really like Viper King
I don't not like Untethered Angel. It's fine.
But I can definitely live without Paralyzed, Room 137, and Out Of Reach. Especially Out Of Reach. God does that song blow.
I agree on everything except Out of Reach. I really like it.
-
I especially love Out of Reach. In fact, other than AWE, it's a favorite...probably number 2. Oh, and I like Paralyzed and Room 137 well enough. Really, Untethered Angel and Viper King is what I could live without, but they're alright, nothing really wrong with them.
-
My ranking now would be
1. At Wits End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. S2N
4. Room 137
5. Pale Blue Dot
6. Fall Into The Light
7. Paralyzed
8. Untethered Angel
9. Out of Reach
I have no idea why I don't enjoy Out of Reach as much. I think it's the baritone.
-
This is the album that will go down in history as the most perplexing one for me and my experience of it. I have NOTHING to complain about, since I like the songs, the approach of writing it together, the direction and the musical choices they've made, and yet I've come back rarely to it. I'm working from home due to the Covid-19 emergency, each day I have 8 hours to listen to music, and yet I have heard the album at best twice since the lockdown began.
-
I haven't listened to d/t since probably January. I love the album, but I go through phases and albums come and go with me.
As far as my ranking goes.
1. Barstool Warrior
2. Pale Blue Dot
3. Fall into the Light
4. S2N
5. At Wits End
6. Viper King
7. Untethered Angel
8. Room 137
9. Out of Reach
10. Paralyzed
I still like every song on the album though, from strongest to weakest. :coolio
-
Count me in on the Out of Reach hate. Worst song since Prophets of War...maybe worse. It just sounds like one of JLB's more recent solo material, and OMG is that stuff cheesy and terrible. (for the record, I liked the MM albums and *LOVED* EoP...but the last two have taken a turn for the worst. Can't stomach them)
But as for the album as a whole: I really think this is an extremely strong album (in spite of the one misstep). I even support the decision to list Viper King as a bonus track, as it doesn't feel like a part of the album, or even like a proper DT album track. I think of it as a fairly cool "B-side" that they just decided to stick on the end of the album. But I also find myself not coming back to it much. I've listened to the album straight through probably a dozen times, and I still have it on shuffle at work. I enjoy the songs when they come on, but even after all those listenings, I could only name half of them if you played them for me right now. They are just not sticking for some reason. Maybe I'm just burnt out on the DT sound after hearing them near constantly for 28 years.
-
I play it less now than when it was newer. But it is still probably my most played album. REALLY strong, start to finish. I'm glad the crazy people that don't like Out of Reach are a small minority, because that song is fantastic. Probably my #3 behind At Wit's End and S2N.
-
Out of Reach is automatic skip for me. I've listened to the album many times and skipped it every time.
In fact it's the only DT song that I've never heard in it's entirety. I couldn't even make it through one single listen.
-
As far as their more ballad-y songs go, Out of Reach is just a big blah. For sure one of the weaker ones, but I don't feel so strongly as to say I hate it.
No, the real stinker of this album? Room 137. What an utter disasterpiece of a song that is. I just cannot get behind that obnoxious and repetitive guitar riff that pervades the length of the track. I get the whole thing behind the significance of the number in the lyrics, but even coming from a bit of a maths geek, they still just come across as really trite, cliche, and nondescript. It's also probably the worst offender in the recent trend of drenching LaBrie's vocals in cold reverb, which does no favors for the already bland and forgettable chorus.
-
Out Of Reach is really pretty. I can understand the argument that it's more simplistic than the rest of the album, & maybe some people find it generic as a "love song", but I can't hate it. It's so sweet & lovely & it makes me happy. :heart
-
This is the album that will go down in history as the most perplexing one for me and my experience of it. I have NOTHING to complain about, since I like the songs, the approach of writing it together, the direction and the musical choices they've made, and yet I've come back rarely to it. I'm working from home due to the Covid-19 emergency, each day I have 8 hours to listen to music, and yet I have heard the album at best twice since the lockdown began.
This is me as well.
-
Out Of Reach is really pretty. I can understand the argument that it's more simplistic than the rest of the album, & maybe some people find it generic as a "love song", but I can't hate it. It's so sweet & lovely & it makes me happy. :heart
I think Out of Reach is DT's strongest ballad in years! DT are not particularly good at making ballads barring a few exceptions, but I quite liked Out of Reach.
Regarding the album as a whole, I still think it's easily the best Mangini era album! I don't listen a whole lot of DT nowadays, but I find myself coming back to Distance Over Time from time to time. Barstool Warrior, AWE and S2N are absolute bangers! There are not automatic skips on this album, although some of the songs are not as good as the ones listed above.
I have probably listened to D/T more already than the previous 2 albums combined! I was getting pretty burned on DT after The Astonishing, but now I'm excited to see where they go next.
-
Out of Reach is automatic skip for me. I've listened to the album many times and skipped it every time.
In fact it's the only DT song that I've never heard in it's entirety. I couldn't even make it through one single listen.
I always skip Out Of Reach when my friends are around, but usually let it play through when by myself. So maybe I'm a closet Out Of Reach guy.. :lol
-
I think Out of Reach is a nice little ballad. It’s my favorite one out of all the ballads from the MM era (excluding TA). I like the melodies and the buildup to the chorus. And excellent vocal work from James.
-
...and excellent guitar work from Petrucci. ...and excellent piano/keys from Jordan (the ambient swells that you barely notice if at all in the background are SO key to the song's energy and build). ...and excellent, subtle bass lines from JM. ...and excellent, tasteful drumming from MM. Just an all around home run of a song, really. And for someone who generally doesn't care for many of DT's ballads, I think that's saying something (although their ballads during the MM era have generally felt MUCH stronger than those that came before).
-
Out of Reach isn't the best song, but it's the right song, at the right place, on the right album.
-
This is the album that will go down in history as the most perplexing one for me and my experience of it. I have NOTHING to complain about, since I like the songs, the approach of writing it together, the direction and the musical choices they've made, and yet I've come back rarely to it. I'm working from home due to the Covid-19 emergency, each day I have 8 hours to listen to music, and yet I have heard the album at best twice since the lockdown began.
I sorta know what you mean. I always say that if I like an album a lot, it finds its way into my CD player (or iTunes or iPhone) a lot, and once the initial wave of excitement of the album wore off, I have barely revisited most of it. The exceptions are Fall into the Light, At Wit's End and Out of Reach, all of which I will still listen to regularly when in the mood for DT, but I don't really listen to the others anymore except very rare occasions.
-
...and excellent guitar work from Petrucci. ...and excellent piano/keys from Jordan (the ambient swells that you barely notice if at all in the background are SO key to the song's energy and build). ...and excellent, subtle bass lines from JM. ...and excellent, tasteful drumming from MM. Just an all around home run of a song, really. And for someone who generally doesn't care for many of DT's ballads, I think that's saying something (although their ballads during the MM era have generally felt MUCH stronger than those that came before).
there we go, succinct and accurate.
Out Of Reach and PBD are the only two I regularly come back to. (whereas I always listen to my two favourite DT albums in one go and feel relieved) I hope DT15 will be more like the first two MM era albums in that regard for me. And yes I agree, it's perplexing to me that the hype for D/T was bigger than the thing itself (and wrongly so IMHO, but then again I know it's been praised to bits. I can't see why though.)
-
Yeah for me Pale Blue Dot is the best track in the album, it's got the usual epic touch that the band is very familiar with and the lyrics are great..as far as the weakest song, easily for me it's Out of Reach..also why James decided to name it almost as a (much better) track from Impermanent Resonance (Slightly Out of Reach) is something that leaves me puzzled..and only that, the song has a similar vibe with another really great song from Static Impulse called Coming Home..In any case it feels that the album could've easily existed without it.
-
The spontaneity of the album is what I enjoy the most and that's part of the reason why I enjoy Out of Reach so much plus we all know the back story of how this song was written in 30 minutes.
BTW - I was listening to AWE at low volume yesterday while working out in the yard and when JP's outro interlude came in at around 5:56 I could have sworn I heard subtle sobbing in the background. Anyone else hear this?
-
The spontaneity of the album is what I enjoy the most and that's part of the reason why I enjoy Out of Reach so much plus we all know the back story of how this song was written in 30 minutes.
BTW - I was listening to AWE at low volume yesterday while working out in the yard and when JP's outro interlude came in at around 5:56 I could have sworn I heard subtle sobbing in the background. Anyone else hear this?
I think what you're hearing there is actually a rhythmic tapping for a couple of bars from that exact timestamp.
It's been discussed before on this forum. If memory serves, the consensus was that it was probably part of a click-track.
-
The spontaneity of the album is what I enjoy the most and that's part of the reason why I enjoy Out of Reach so much plus we all know the back story of how this song was written in 30 minutes.
BTW - I was listening to AWE at low volume yesterday while working out in the yard and when JP's outro interlude came in at around 5:56 I could have sworn I heard subtle sobbing in the background. Anyone else hear this?
I think what you're hearing there is actually a rhythmic tapping for a couple of bars from that exact timestamp.
It's been discussed before on this forum. If memory serves, the consensus was that it was probably part of a click-track.
It happens from 5:54 to 5:56 and at could be JP's finger moving against the string although I don't know what you mean by rhythmic tapping. But it sure don't sound like a click to me.
-
No, no click IMHO. I'm very sure it's James being on a delay on " warped inside a never ending TURN turn turn turn...." (you get the idea) and fading out gradually.
-
Out Of Reach is really pretty. I can understand the argument that it's more simplistic than the rest of the album, & maybe some people find it generic as a "love song", but I can't hate it. It's so sweet & lovely & it makes me happy. :heart
Out of reach is my most listened song in DOT.next to Barstool.
I used to like Unthetered Angel and other songs but like others the album felt old fast I listen more to the Astonishing now.
-
No, no click IMHO. I'm very sure it's James being on a delay on " warped inside a never ending TURN turn turn turn...." (you get the idea) and fading out gradually.
My perception is that it sounds like a wooden block being tapped. I can hear it begin in earnest at 5m58. But I think we're hearing the same sound regardless of its origin.
Not hearing anything between 5m54 and 5m56, though.
Love these sorts of discussions. Always amazing to hear sounds that may simply be remnants of recording.
-
No, no click IMHO. I'm very sure it's James being on a delay on " warped inside a never ending TURN turn turn turn...." (you get the idea) and fading out gradually.
I kinda agree, but I think it sounds like there's some feedback thing on the vocals as well. It seems like it gets more jumbled up as it fades out, but it's subtle & quiet enough to not sound "weird". It's a nice touch that I hadn't noticed until today. :tup
-
My perception is that it sounds like a wooden block being tapped. I can hear it begin in earnest at 5m58.
You can hear what MICROPHONE they used ? ;D
-
I hear "Tide" being echoed and then as it fades, the echo is shortened to just repeat "Tide, tide, tide, tide"
-
Still a great album, it was exactly what was required at the time following Astonishing.
It is a bit unremarkable in that we have mostly short songs that don't really offer anything new, however it is damn solid and has a great 'rocking' attitude that has been missing on the previous few albums that were getting overtly saccharine, culminating with TA.
-
How does everyone rank the Mike Mangini albums so far ?
For me it's :
1. Distance Over Time - completely nailed it. Great songs and great production. Everything sounds killer. Also - Wiki says it's their most successful album to date.
2. The Astonishing ( i love it for what it is - but if it was one CD with all the best material on it could have been their best album )
3. DT12 - despite the snare and hot production I think it's great
4. A Dramatic Turn Of Events - a really great 'comeback' if you will. It needed to be business as usual to reassure the fans and it mostly succeeded. I think it's better than Systematic Chaos for sure.
-
Dramatic Turn
DoT + DT12
I love DoT / DT12 but ADTOE has a special place for me.
Astonishing is... Not bad... At all... But I still haven't listened to it since seeing it live.
Astonishing
-
1. ADoTE and it’s not even close. Definitely in the top 4-5 records they’ve ever done.
2. D12 and D/T (tie) - both have 2 or 3 great cuts, a couple passable songs, and a couple duds.
3. Astonishing - 45 minutes of great, musical, ideas (especially from Rudess) buried within another 1.5 hours of filler, and saccharine cheesy lyrics. Did work better in a live setting, though.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. Distance Over Time
3. Dream Theater XII
4. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
Top 2 are really close though
-
1. A Dramatic Turn of Events - Great album. Breaking All Illusions is a Top 10 Dream Theater song, and most of the others are easily in my Top 50 or so.
2. Distance Over Time - It might not reach the highs that most of their other albums do, but it's so consistently good and it's so much fun to listen to. Fall Into The Light is the best song on the album for me.
3. The Astonishing - I really, really like this album. It's just really pleasant to listen to. I don't find myself bothered by a lot of the things people complain about, like "My muuuuusic plaaaayer" or the names of some of the characters. I'm glad DT decided to make an album like this. A New Beginning is easily my favorite.
4. Dream Theater - It has some absolutely amazing songs (Illumination Theory, The Enemy Inside, The Bigger Picture) but also has some songs I think are just "okay" (The Looking Glass, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason).
-
1. The Astonishing
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over Time
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
-
1. A Dramatic turn of events
2. The Astonishing
3. Distance over time
4. Dream Theater
-
1. The Astonishing
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over Time
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
What about Scenes, Six Degrees, Train of Thought & Octavarium ?
-
1. A Dramatic Turn of Events - a clear step above the others for me and my favourite since Train of Thought. BAI is also their best song since Octavarium.
2. Distance Over Time - Strong album and really consistent, but it doesn't reach the highs of ADTOE. It would be much closer if I enjoyed Barstool Warrior and especially S2N as much as everyone else seems to.
3. The Astonishing - Very ambitious effort and there's lots of great stuff on here - so many brilliant melodies and moments. It does suffer a bit due to it's length, as I'm not that keen on so many 'lighter' songs and similar intros. I love my abridged version, but then you're sacrificing some of the story.
4. Dream Theater - When I start to think about each song on here, I find myself thinking 'this album is better than I thought'. Illumination Theory is incredible, The Enemy Inside and Surrender to Reason are great, The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil are pretty good. FAS is a cool intro too. The other three tracks let it down though, especially Enigma Machine which is one of their weakest instrumentals and something about The Looking Glass just rubs me up the wrong way. Somehow to me, this ends up being an album that's weaker than the sum of it's parts.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over Time
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
What about Scenes, Six Degrees, Train of Thought & Octavarium ?
Masterpiece, one song on disc 1 plus half disc 2, very good & two songs.
-
4. Dream Theater - . Somehow to me, this ends up being an album that's weaker than the sum of it's parts.
Yeah it's a shame. Since they so very nearly nailed the album. They just made it too loud and the snare sound was terrible.
Imagine DT12 with the production of Distance Over Time.
D/T is like a much better attempt at DT12.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over Time
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
What about Scenes, Six Degrees, Train of Thought & Octavarium ?
Way too much hit and miss on 6 D's and 8V.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Dream Theater
4. Distance over Time
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
What about Scenes, Six Degrees, Train of Thought & Octavarium ?
Way too much hit and miss on 6 D's and 8V.
Yeah, that’s a weird example of a 4-album run. Images through Scenes would be much better even though I dislike FII.
-
I get you, but how can a streak be “consistently good” if you dislike one album?
-
1. Distance Over Time
2. Dream Theater
3. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
4. The Astonishing
Like Metallica's Hardwired I didn't think DT had an album as great as DoT in them. It's one of my favorite DT albums overall, not just mangini era.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. Distance over Time
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events
4. Dream Theater
A Dramatic Turn of Events would probably be my number 1 album of the Mangini era if it sounded better. Distance over Time has sound issues as well, but the HD version of it sounds better than the HD version of ADTOE, so it gets the slight nod over it for number 2.
-
1. Distance Over Time - All-around grand slam of an album and destined to be a classic
2. A Dramatic Turn Of Events - Nearly tied with DoT for the same reasons. Excellent comeback!
3. Dream Theater - Very good album but just not as good as the top 2. Flawed production, as mentioned by everyone else
4. The Astonishing - I actually like this album quite a bit, and I think it has some of their strongest and most melodic material to date. Only reason it takes last spot is that I need to be in a specific mood to listen to it; I can't throw it on anytime like I can with the other albums. Also it's a bit of a chore to sit through.
-
4. Dream Theater - . Somehow to me, this ends up being an album that's weaker than the sum of it's parts.
Yeah it's a shame. Since they so very nearly nailed the album. They just made it too loud and the snare sound was terrible.
Imagine DT12 with the production of Distance Over Time.
D/T is like a much better attempt at DT12.
Pretty sure D/T is much more compressed than DT12 (the CD/streaming versions anyway). In any event D/T has major brickwalling issues.
Although, yes, I agree the overall production is better in D/T.
-
I get you, but how can a streak be “consistently good” if you dislike one album?
Oh you misunderstood me. I meant it would more sense for HIM to cite Images-Scenes.
-
1. The Astonishing
2. Distance over Time
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events
4. Dream Theater
A Dramatic Turn of Events would probably be my number 1 album of the Mangini era if it sounded better. Distance over Time has sound issues as well, but the HD version of it sounds better than the HD version of ADTOE, so it gets the slight nod over it for number 2.
This list x2.
The Astonishing is a top 5 DT album for me. It's wonderful.
-
1. D/T - a pleasure from front to back
2. ADTOE - some amazing tracks
3. DT12 - v nearly great but somehow v dull
4. Astonishing - brave but unbearable
D/T remains my go-to DT record. So impressed with it still.
-
1. A Dramatic Turn of Events - By far the most consistent and solid of the four, and BAI is still their best song in ages. My biggest issue is that they really pad out almost every non-ballad track and I think if it had done with some trimming and kept the best moments of each song, it'd probably be in my top half of their discography for me.
2. Distance Over Time - I don't find myself returning to this one all too often, and it's pretty standard DT by the numbers, but it does have its highlights. Biggest problem for me is that it's pretty inconsistent with some real stinkers in the tracklist, and it's not exactly an ideally cohesive album experience.
3. Dream Theater - Pretty much have the same issues with this one as I did D/T, only with not as many highs and way worse production. Still, it has its moments and I do tend to warm up to it anytime I put it on; I usually like it more than I think I do.
4. The Astonishing - In its entirety, I just can't stomach it. I admire and respect the ambition because no matter how you feel about it, writing two-and-a-half hours of music is no easy feat. But I just don't care for the story, and it feels to me just one bland prog rock ballad after the other. I haven't listened to it outside of a few standout songs in years.
-
1. D/T - a pleasure from front to back
2. ADTOE - some amazing tracks
3. DT12 - v nearly great but somehow v dull
4. Astonishing - brave but unbearable
D/T remains my go-to DT record. So impressed with it still.
Pretty much this.
-
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
Couldn't agree more. I love all four albums. There is no better 4-album streak, by DT or anyone else.
But as far as ranking my them in order:
1. ADTOE: SO consistently good from start to finish. I have to say, other than The Astonishing, which is perhaps less consistent for very good reasons due to its format, this album heralded an unprecedented consistency from the band that continues.
2. DT12: It only misses the #1 spot because ADTOE is just so good.
3. D/T: I liked it just fine when it came out, and it has only climbed higher with more listens.
4. TA: I love the adventure of what they did here, and disk 1 is some of my favorite music from the band. Despite that things about it may not have worked optimally for me, I am so glad they put this out.
-
Thinking about it, the overall most consistently good four consecutive albums streak in their catalogue.
Couldn't agree more. I love all four albums. There is no better 4-album streak, by DT or anyone else.
But as far as ranking my them in order:
1. ADTOE: SO consistently good from start to finish. I have to say, other than The Astonishing, which is perhaps less consistent for very good reasons due to its format, this album heralded an unprecedented consistency from the band that continues.
2. DT12: It only misses the #1 spot because ADTOE is just so good.
3. D/T: I liked it just fine when it came out, and it has only climbed higher with more listens.
4. TA: I love the adventure of what they did here, and disk 1 is some of my favorite music from the band. Despite that things about it may not have worked optimally for me, I am so glad they put this out.
I agree as well. My ranking is almost identical. Rotate the bottom two and there you have it. ADTOE and DT12 are equally great IMHO. I could argue that DT12 *maaaay* score a tad bit higher to me, because of the greater complexity of the music (especially concerning Mike's, JP's and Jordan's respective parts), but ah well. Two proper bangers in a row (and I really mean bangers, top tier albums). A great relief listening to these two (especially back to back) considering what came out before MM joined.
-
What we've seen so far since MM joined the band is dropping the long song format and writing more tight and focused songs. ADTOE was the last album that saw songs that clocked above 10' and although it contained 9 songs, it was as long as BC&SL (6 songs). Not counting TA, DT the album and DoT although completely different albums they roughly have the same length, the same number of songs (not counting Viper King) and they kind of signify a new beginning considering the time they were released. Also the album titles are oddly familiar..
Out of the 4 albums with MM, ADTOE is the most 'Dream Theater' in my opinion. Breaking All Illusions was a classic from day one and highlights for me are On the Backs of Angels, This the Life and Outcry..The weakest is the self titled and TA..DoT was heavy and raw and it was those elements that caught people's ears..it has definitely some better moments than DT but again, it doesn't seem to be any different from what we've come to expect from the band since 2011..
-
DT12 had Illumination Theory, though (20 minute epic), but yeah, the last 2 albums have no songs in the 10+ minute range and I hope we get some of that on DT15. An album similar to ADTOE structure-wise would be a great balance (some short songs and a few longer ones), but I'm still waiting for them to write a 30 minute epic someday :lol
As for a ranking of the last 4 albums, I find it very difficult to do, as they're all excellent and quite different from each other. I'd say that ADTOE has higher highs than DT12, but the latter is more consistent. TA is very hard to rank because it's very different and really good, but also quite long, so it's not an album you could play all the time. D/T sounds fresh and I revisit it a lot, but it does feel a bit short at times (it is) and lacking some more crazy stuff lol. My dream DT15 would be something with their current production and experimentation but with longer songs and crazier instrumental sections (think ADTOE meets D/T).
-
(think ADTOE meets D/T).
Something like this would be perfect
-
(think ADTOE meets D/T).
Something like this would be perfect
on steroids
-
unfortunately for me the last 4 albums are among my least favorite DT-albums. Somehow I don't feel a lot of connection with most of the songs compared to the albums they released in nineties and early zero's which still are Peak DT for me.
This thread made me revisit DoT and DT today, both albums I hadn't heard in a while.
My ranking:
ADTOE: easibly the albums that feels most like DT I fell in love with. Breaking all Illusions is a top 10 DT song for me and On The Backs of Angels, Bridges in the Sky and Outcry are other standout songs.
DoT: very consistent but also a bit too much of the same. Pale Blue Dot, S2N and Fall into the Light are my favorites but don't come close to BAI.
DT: probably the only DT album that makes it difficult to even name a few songs I really like. Surrender to Reason and The Bigger Picture are my favorites on this album. I don't see myself revisiting this album in the near future.
TA: I admire the effort and I'm glad so many people enjoy it. It's just not for me. A lot of great tunes, a few great songs but way too long and I feel zero connection to the story. Could have been different it they had chosen multiple singers for the different characters.
-
Here's mine :
1) ADTOE : Very different songs, half of them are oustanding ! The 11-12 minutes lenght of some makes me wonder about the "no epic song argument". I love bridges in the sky and it was the best show opener I ever saw XD
2) D/T : Same feeling, reaching sadness, anger, even overjoy with viper king, half of the album is legendary and we even get dance of eternity's nephew :D
3) DT12 : I loved illumination theory even if the cuts between parts are preventing it from being a fluent single song. Enigma machine & Along for the ride are unique and enjoyable. The remaining isn't as impressive to me as the two other albums I mentionned...It's a little more accessible songs, a little less proggy, it's hard to put words on this
4) The astonishing : Still half outstanding, but this time the other half is a little bland, narrative tool or not, it's harder to enjoy for me and listening for one song here and there is tricky ^^
Little reminder about this opinion, I'm a guitarist and I nearly only sensible to melodies, harmonies, solos, song construction, etc...
It might be well different for an audiofile that enjoys music as a whole, exemple: how good an album is to play in the car for a long ride ^^
-
Here is my ranking:
1. A Dramatic Turn of Events (I just wish it sounded better but the songs elevate it so much I can't help put put it at no. 1)
2. The Astonishing (This is one of the best albums DT has ever made, but right now I am liking ADToE more, thus the ranking)
3. Distance over Time (What a great album! But not as good as the previous 2 in my view, I think it really could have used some longer epics)
4. Dream Theater (This has some really awesome songs that I regularly return to, but it also has some duds that I never listen to)
I do have to say though, that all of these albums contain some of my favorite DT songs.
-
Here’s my ranking of the four Mangini albums.
1. Distance Over Time - I know it may seem like recency bias, but this is basically everything I’ve ever wanted out of a Dream Theater album. It’s got the right balance of prog vs. metal, fantastic production, better arrangements, and fun concise (for DT) songs. Mangini’s best album as well.
2. DT12 - This was the path that led to DoT, a little more proggy with more concise songs. Production suffers, which brings it down a notch.
3. ADTOE - I think this album suffered from lack of input from other band members. Drums sound too basic. But still some fun songs, and a step in the right direction after Portnoy’s departure
4. TA - Too long for its own good. There’s some great work in there, but I find it tiring to sit through all of the fat in order to find it.
-
1. ADTOE-Strong and inspired. I loved it the day it was released and still do.
2. D/T-Strong but waning. Everything is great, but nothing amazing.
3. TA-One hell of an effort but there isn’t a standout song on the whole thing.
4. DT-This hasn’t stood the test of time at all for me. Nothing bad. Nothing all that great either.
-
Couldn't agree more. I love all four albums. There is no better 4-album streak, by DT or anyone else.
Leviathan - Blood Mountain - Crack The Skye - The Hunter.
-
Couldn't agree more. I love all four albums. There is no better 4-album streak, by DT or anyone else.
Leviathan - Blood Mountain - Crack The Skye - The Hunter.
Morningrise - My Arms Your Hearse - Still Life - Blackwater Park ::)
but we're getting very off-topic now
Edit: Also how tf did I forget Dark Side Of The Moon - Wish You Were Here - Animals - The Wall :lolpalm:
-
Couldn't agree more. I love all four albums. There is no better 4-album streak, by DT or anyone else.
Leviathan - Blood Mountain - Crack The Skye - The Hunter.
Morningrise - My Arms Your Hearse - Still Life - Blackwater Park ::)
but we're getting very off-topic now
well, it's not surprising, since we're all waiting for DT15 to be made (and released). (well, maybe not everyone here, but I'm sure some of us are. I certainly am.)
-
ADTOE - The best of the post-Portnoy era, if anything because it's closest to the Portnoy-era sound, Mangini had no involvement in the writing. Sound is terrible. Songs have great parts and I over-listened when it came out, but it feels a little DT-by-numbers now.
DoT - Fun album. The whole is better than the sum of it's parts, imo. Sound is OK, a little too compressed, but Rudess is up front in the mix.
DT - The sound production is very cold to me, and and the mix is too hot. Makes it hard to enjoy the music. While it has amazing sections, especially the beautiful ambient and orchestral sections, I don't feel like the epic Illumination Theory is a cohesive piece of music. My favorite part of the album is the hidden track at the end *shrugs* the only song I feel works on this album is Behind The Veil.
The Astonishing - So many mixed feelings about this album, and it's way too long. Best sounding mix of the Mangini-era band. After almost 5 years of this album existing, while I think the first overture is one of their best things under the DT banner, I'm just not into much of the material, even the better tunes. TA is my least favorite DT album for me.
All are basically in my bottom 5 Dream Theater albums, with the debut somewhere in there. I feel like Portnoy grounded a lot of JP and JR's ideas. As opposed to describing the music as "too" technical, I feel like modern songs sometimes suffer from weird flow and/or awkward transitions, as crazy ridiculous as they be to play/perform, from a listening perspective it just doesn't vibe with me as much. I also haven't been into whatever sounds or patches Rudess has been using lately, though I thought some cool stuff popped up in DoT and he has been using more organ since Portnoy left, which is good. Maybe it's because he's getting older, but I'm not into whatever filter or reverb JLB uses. I miss the clean, dry vocals of the 90s/00s albums. I remember listening to either Six Degrees or Train of Thought a little while back, then put on DoT and I turned it off within a couple of songs because I couldn't listen to the vocals right after listening to the older album.
-
Hilarious the band names that were dropped in this thread instead of Beatles, Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, Maiden, Metallica, etc.
-
Hilarious the band names that were dropped in this thread instead of Beatles, Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, Maiden, Metallica, etc.
Why would we discuss those bands in a Dream Theater thread? :huh:
-
Hilarious the band names that were dropped in this thread instead of Beatles, Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, Maiden, Metallica, etc.
Why would we discuss those bands in a Dream Theater thread? :huh:
it's the DTF Derailment Algorithm (TM)
-
Hilarious the band names that were dropped in this thread instead of Beatles, Sabbath, Purple, Zeppelin, Maiden, Metallica, etc.
Why would we discuss those bands in a Dream Theater thread? :huh:
it's the DTF Derailment Algorithm (TM)
:lol
-
1. ADTOE-Strong and inspired. I loved it the day it was released and still do.
2. D/T-Strong but waning. Everything is great, but nothing amazing.
3. TA-One hell of an effort but there isn’t a standout song on the whole thing.
4. DT-This hasn’t stood the test of time at all for me. Nothing bad. Nothing all that great either.
So, I must’ve been smoking some of that good crack when I posted this. I just listened to Distance Over Time. First time all the way through in probably a year. Yeah...that shit is stupid good. Mangini’s drums are badass. His playing and the sound. I love it. The riffs and melodies are so good. The whole albums is great.
-
For the first time in a couple of month; I gave it a spin today, followed by the instrumental versions CD.
This album is aging like fine wine.
-
Still love the album, i think it's one of their strongest on the second half of their career.
I really wish we would get such a punchy production on ADTOE and DT12, especially DT12 in my ears is almost as bad as WDADU, and i like the songs quite a lot.
-
For the first time in a couple of month; I gave it a spin today, followed by the instrumental versions CD.
This album is aging like fine wine.
I agree. It has some very creative song writing in it which keeps the album interesting for a long time. I'm still blown away virtually every time I listen to tracks like FITL and AWE. They are just so interesting musically. And those are just examples, i feel that way about other songs on the album as well.
-
I'm not as crazy about some of the individual songs as I was when it came out, but I still listen to the whole thing, because I like the SOUND of the album.
Also, you people are crazy. Out of Reach is not only good, it's the best song on the album.
-
I'm not as crazy about some of the individual songs as I was when it came out, but I still listen to the whole thing, because I like the SOUND of the album.
Also, you people are crazy. Out of Reach is not only good, it's the best song on the album.
yes, I already mentioned OOR being my personal favourite on the album (along with PBD of course)
-
I'm not as crazy about some of the individual songs as I was when it came out, but I still listen to the whole thing, because I like the SOUND of the album.
Also, you people are crazy. Out of Reach is not only good, it's the best song on the album.
yes, I already mentioned OOR being my personal favourite on the album (along with PBD of course)
I'm with both of you. OOR is a really great song. I didn't like it much at first, but now I think it is awesome.
-
I skip it every time. I cannot find any redeeming quality.
-
OOR may crack my top 3. I'd have to revisit the album, haven't listened to it for a while, but that was an instant fav.
-
OOR may crack my top 3. I'd have to revisit the album, haven't listened to it for a while, but that was an instant fav.
Wolfking? Is that you?
-
OOR may crack my top 3. I'd have to revisit the album, haven't listened to it for a while, but that was an instant fav.
Wolfking? Is that you?
You probably think my account has been hacked over the last 24 hours. :lol
-
Don't listen to the album much anymore. I don't really have anything bad to say about the album but I also don't really seek it out.
-
I don't neccesarily seek it, but when songs from d/t come up in a random playlist, I love all of them. Maybe Room 137 less. But like others have said, the album took time to grow. Thinking about it though, much of DT music is like that for me. Even recently UA grew more enjoyable and S2N was a late bloomer.
-
I skip it every time. I cannot find any redeeming quality.
You aren't likely to find any qualities at all if you skip it every time.
-
I don't neccesarily seek it, but when songs from d/t come up in a random playlist, I love all of them. Maybe Room 137 less. But like others have said, the album took time to grow. Thinking about it though, much of DT music is like that for me. Even recently UA grew more enjoyable and S2N was a late bloomer.
That's often the case for me as well. On every album, there are always songs that I will like instantly, but then there are some that take time for me to really like. But once they "click" then I love them. OOR PBD and UA were like that for me on this album.
-
My most played albums right now are d/t, Human Nature, and Sola Gratia.
-
I don't neccesarily seek it, but when songs from d/t come up in a random playlist, I love all of them. Maybe Room 137 less. But like others have said, the album took time to grow. Thinking about it though, much of DT music is like that for me. Even recently UA grew more enjoyable and S2N was a late bloomer.
That's often the case for me as well. On every album, there are always songs that I will like instantly, but then there are some that take time for me to really like. But once they "click" then I love them. OOR PBD and UA were like that for me on this album.
The latter half of the album I liked pretty much instantly but later on I got kinda bored of them (except for AWE). Then I grew to like the first half but not too long after that I got bored again. If the songs come on I still listen to them and for the most part enjoy them, they just don't feel very special to me like most of DT's discography. I do skip 137 and S2N though, I don't like them much anymore.
-
I just really love the production and the tones they got with this album. Along with the mix.
-
Most DT albums don't really do anything for me when they come out. I usually get them within a week of them dropping and then find that they sound OK but nothing really bowls me over. It usually takes the next album coming out for the previous one to really click with me. When S/T came out and I revisited ADToE and all of a sudden it sounded like ten times better than I remembered and became a favorite for regular listening. Same thing happened when the Astonishing came out. S/T suddenly clicked and started to sound really cool and also became a part of my regular music rotation. Unfortunately I can't say the same thing happened for the Astonishing after D/T came out. Checking it out a few days ago and forcing myself to listen to the whole thing (and not just the stuff I knew I already liked) was an experience I don't think I ever want to repeat again. I've officially given up on giving it any more chances.
Conversely, in breaking the trend, I really enjoyed D/T from the very 1st listen. So that was a nice unexpected surprise. Still enjoy it whenever I spin it...so it's not just a matter of the honeymoon phase of new music expiring.
-
My most played albums right now are d/t, Human Nature, and Sola Gratia.
I assume you have a promo copy of Sola Gratia, right? Is it good?
-
It's really good. Still digesting it.
-
My most played albums right now are d/t, Human Nature, and Sola Gratia.
I assume you have a promo copy of Sola Gratia, right? Is it good?
I take it these aren't Dream Theater projects?
-
My most played albums right now are d/t, Human Nature, and Sola Gratia.
I assume you have a promo copy of Sola Gratia, right? Is it good?
I take it these aren't Dream Theater projects?
Dream Theater, Nightwish, & Neal Morse respectively
-
Listening to D/T since the announcement of Distant Memories...
This is damn good rocking album and one that is best heard cranked up on a good sound system with Stomach moving bass... :metal :metal :metal
Ranking time
1. At Wit's End
2. S2N
3. Barstool Warrior
4. Room 137
5. Pale Blue Dot
6. Fall Into The Light
7. Paralyzed
8. Out of Reach
9. Untethered Angel
-
It's been forever since I listened to d/t. I like it quite a bit but when I want a DT fix nowadays I pretty much go to either FII or WDADU. At Wit's End is still a song I find to be completely average yet the majority seem to place it way higher. Viper King is probably the most fun DT song there is, and Out Of Reach mighty be my favorite ballad of theirs aside from TSCO.
My ranking:
1. Viper King
2. Out Of Reach
3. Pale Blue Dot
4. Room 137
5. Fall Into The Light
6. S2N
7. At Wit's End
8. Paralyzed
9. Untethered Angel
10. Barstool Warrior
-
Been a while since I listened to it, but mine's something like this:
1. At Wit's End
2. Pale Blue Dot
3. Untethered Angel
4. Fall Into the Light
5. Barstool Warrior
6. Out of Reach
7. Paralyzed
8. S2N
9. Room 137
10. Viper King
Even the bottom 2 songs I quite enjoy, so it's a consistent album. I guess it's similar to Awake for me - every track is probably 6.5/10 or above and a couple are maybe 9/10, but it doesn't quite have those top-tier 10/10 tracks that elevate other albums.
-
1. At Wits End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. Untethered Angel
4. Fall Into The Light
5. Signal To Noise
6. Pale Blue Dot
7. Out Of Reach
(Viper King)
8. Paralyzed
9. Room 137
-
Have slowly been chipping through this thread Start to finish :corn
1. Untethered Angel
2. Barstool Warrior
3. At Wit's End
4. Fall Into The Light
5. Out Of Reach
6. Viper King
7. Paralyzed
8. S2N
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. Room 137
That said it dig them all and the album has probably only improved with time easily the fave of the last 4 \m/
Distance Over Time
Dream Theater
A Dramtic Turn Of Events
The Astonishing
-
1. At Wits End
2. Pale Blue Dot
3. Barstool Warrior
4. Fall Into The Light
5. S2N
6. Viper King
7. Room 137
8. Out Of Reach
9. Untethered Angel
10. Paralyzed
-
I wouldn't be able to rank this album as there's no Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride. There's no song that I never listen to or stands out for being the weak one.
But just skimming the tracks - Fall Into The Light would be in last place I think. It's just OK. It's not an instant 'skip' - but it doesn't really have a chorus
and has Myungs usual meaningless lyrics.
Honestly - i've never been into Myung's lyrics. They always sound like a compilation of those 'self help' quotes people post on Instagram.
-
Honestly - i've never been into Myung's lyrics. They always sound like a compilation of those 'self help' quotes people post on Instagram.
This is going to fly under the radar but it is possibly the most controversial thing anyone has ever posted in this subforum.
-
To be fair, Myung does have a thing for self-reflective, self-improvement, self-searching lyrics. However, I think he does it really well.
-
Honestly - i've never been into Myung's lyrics. They always sound like a compilation of those 'self help' quotes people post on Instagram.
This is going to fly under the radar but it is possibly the most controversial thing anyone has ever posted in this subforum.
Not considering the source, it's not.
-
Well I'd rather him write about that than fantasy lyrics about counts of Tuscany, pharaohs haunting a town (TDEN), or bloodsucking vampires (Forsaken).
He's probably my favourite lyricist in DT.
-
He's probably my favourite lyricist in DT.
Same
-
He's probably my favourite lyricist in DT.
Same
I like some lyrics by John, but my favourite lyricists in the band are (in no particular order) James, JM and MM. I'd gladly welcome more lyrics by MM to be honest.
-
Well I'd rather him write about that than fantasy lyrics about counts of Tuscany, pharaohs haunting a town (TDEN), or bloodsucking vampires (Forsaken).
I'd welcome JM penned song about any of these fantasy topics, wonder what he'll come up with. :)
-
Although I can't really say I'm a huge fan of DT lyrics, FWIW I do think the James' lyrics seem to resonate more with me. It also seems that James has to work harder to emote singing some of the other guy's lyrics, but when he sings his own the performances sounds so much smoother (don't really know how to describe it). I've always wondered if that had something to with the vocal melody itself -- that is to say in the songs that James writes lyrics does he have more say in determining the vocal melody? Or is it simply a matter of being able to relate better with your own words, that is, it's easier for a singer to get into the necessary "headspace" to service their own lyrics?
-
Honestly - i've never been into Myung's lyrics. They always sound like a compilation of those 'self help' quotes people post on Instagram.
This is going to fly under the radar but it is possibly the most controversial thing anyone has ever posted in this subforum.
Well...let's see.
Learning to Live -- Definitely NOT "a compilation of . . . 'self help' quotes."
Lifting Shadows off a Dream -- I'm not sure what it's about, but it's definitely not a bunch of "self help" quotes.
Trial of Tears -- I don't know...maybe.
Fatal Tragedy -- This is just about the antithesis of "self help" quotes.
Breaking All Illusions -- Probably the song most worthy of this description, but who knows what Myung wrote and what Petrucci wrote.
Surrender to Reason -- ??
Fall Into the Light and S2N -- Ummm...no.
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
-
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. :lol
-
The whole " OMG MYUNG SPOKEEEEEEE " posts are the same as " LOL METALLICA NAPSTER " posts.
They're about 10 years out of date.
-
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. :lol
Attaching? Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.
-
obsequious reverence? :rollin
I'm sorry that just hit me a little weird.
-
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. :lol
Attaching? Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.
I mean, maybe it's because those were our favorite lyrics :lol JLB, JP and MP also have some lyrics that can go against these two without an issue. KM is still one of my favorite lyricists when I go beyond what he wrote for Dream Theater, and Myung only contributes when he's inspired, so people were just excited about him being inspired enough to do so. Plus, he has a knack, he almost always selects the songs that will become fan favorites once they're complete and says "okay so I'll do this one".
-
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. :lol
Attaching? Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.
I mean, maybe it's because those were our favorite lyrics :lol JLB, JP and MP also have some lyrics that can go against these two without an issue. KM is still one of my favorite lyricists when I go beyond what he wrote for Dream Theater, and Myung only contributes when he's inspired, so people were just excited about him being inspired enough to do so. Plus, he has a knack, he almost always selects the songs that will become fan favorites once they're complete and says "okay so I'll do this one".
As I said, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like or saying that "KM is still one of my favorite lyricists." Nor is there anything wrong with, "Myung is writing a lyric for ADTOE? Cool. It's been a while." But some of the stuff I read made it seem like whatever Myung wrote would be lyrical perfection, and some of the stuff I've read over the years about the wonder of KM lyrics has verged on the absurd.
-
That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly. So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM. The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."
Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. :lol
Attaching? Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.
This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.
I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.
Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1
-
This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.
I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.
Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1
Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?
I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).
-
This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.
I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.
Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1
Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?
I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).
The list would look a lot uglier if I counted songs that were co-written differently than the others. How do we determine how much of a song did one or the other person write? IIRC, Moore only did one verse for To Live Forever; Octavarium has lyrics by JP, MP and JLB; Collins' lyrics didn't end up being used at all (one song was re-written by Charlie and the other was never even demoed, but he isn't too relevant to this discussion anyway). Take The Time is the odd song of the bunch, with lyrics written by 4 members, but it's still a contribution by each. As for SDOIT (and ITPOE) that's another debate entirely, but let's just stick with what the band has said (that they're full songs) for this application.
-
But some of the stuff I read made it seem like whatever Myung wrote would be lyrical perfection, and some of the stuff I've read over the years about the wonder of KM lyrics has verged on the absurd.
I'm pretty sure that in the pile of the "some of the stuff", some of the stuff I wrote would rank pretty high on the absurd scale :angel:
-
Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1
:eek - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided :omg: I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics. This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"
-
The Astonishing really sent Petrucci's count up to the sky, but he still would have been by far in the lead anyway...
-
This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.
I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.
Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1
Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?
I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).
The list would look a lot uglier if I counted songs that were co-written differently than the others. How do we determine how much of a song did one or the other person write? IIRC, Moore only did one verse for To Live Forever; Octavarium has lyrics by JP, MP and JLB; Collins' lyrics didn't end up being used at all (one song was re-written by Charlie and the other was never even demoed, but he isn't too relevant to this discussion anyway). Take The Time is the odd song of the bunch, with lyrics written by 4 members, but it's still a contribution by each. As for SDOIT (and ITPOE) that's another debate entirely, but let's just stick with what the band has said (that they're full songs) for this application.
Easy enough to say, "TTT has four lyricists listed, so 1/4 credit each; BAI has two lyricists listed, so 1/2 credit each." Also, why include Collins at all since nothing he wrote was ever released? For all we know, he wrote 49 sets of lyrics that "didn't end up being used at all."
I would say the more accurate counts are as follows:
JP - 99.15
MP - 21.65
JLB - 13.7
KM - 12.75
JM - 7.75
CD - 1.5
MM - 1
CC - 0
Songs with multiple listed lyricists** are divided with the assumption that each lyricist contributed evenly, except Octavarium. Since each section of 8VM is listed, it is split 5 ways between JP (2/5), MP (2/5) and JLB (1/5). Also, the single song versus multiple songs debate aside, SDOIT includes seven discrete sets of lyrics, so those are counted separately.
** - Status Seeker, Take the Time, Caught in a Web, You Not Me (1/2 credit to JP), Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, S2N, To Live Forever (I included TLF as a multi-lyricist composition, even though one of the two versions on COTC lists only JP as lyricist).
:eek - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided :omg: I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics. This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"
27 of his number come from The Astonishing, so....
-
I would say the more accurate counts are as follows:
JP - 99.15
MP - 21.65
JLB - 13.7
KM - 12.75
JM - 7.75
CD - 1.5
MM - 1
CC - 0
Songs with multiple listed lyricists** are divided with the assumption that each lyricist contributed evenly, except Octavarium. Since each section of 8VM is listed, it is split 5 ways between JP (2/5), MP (2/5) and JLB (1/5). Also, the single song versus multiple songs debate aside, SDOIT includes seven discrete sets of lyrics, so those are counted separately.
** - Status Seeker, Take the Time, Caught in a Web, You Not Me (1/2 credit to JP), Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, S2N, To Live Forever (I included TLF as a multi-lyricist composition, even though one of the two versions on COTC lists only JP as lyricist).
Yeah, no one is going to use a system like that, regardless of accuracy.
-
Yeah, no one is going to use a system like that, regardless of accuracy.
It takes all the fun out of it :lol
:eek - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided :omg: I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics. This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"
27 of his number come from The Astonishing, so....
You take TA out of the equation (but still counting D/T) and JP still has around 70 songs with his lyrics.
-
You take TA out of the equation (but still counting D/T) and JP still has around 70 songs with his lyrics.
Exactly, even without TA, his number is 3x that of MP, and MP is still 1.5x that of JLB despite not having been in the band for 10 years and 4 albums.
-
I think the two current main lyricists are both solid. But they hit me differently.
For JP's lyrics, my reaction is often along the lines of: "Heh, that's pretty clever" or "Oh, that's kinda cool."
For James, my reaction is often: There's a LOT of emotion there to connect with.
To put it another way, I think I connect more with JP's lyrics on an intellectual level, and connect with James' on a more visceral, emotional level. Both are effective, but satisfy different needs.
For the other lyricists, it's a bit different.
Portnoy: I usually don't have a strong reaction either way and just feel like most of his are just "solid."
Myung: He used to be my favorite DT lyricist, but some of his more recent efforts haven't connected with me. Hit and miss.
Moore: Even more hit and miss. He uses a lot of clever devices and does some things that are really cool. But for every one of those, there is another absolute clunker that makes me just want to ignore the lyrics so I don't injure myself eyerolling.
-
Portnoy: I usually don't have a strong reaction either way and just feel like most of his are just "solid."
Does ACOS hit the spot for you at all or is it just "solid"?
-
Good one. That might just be his best (or at least up there at the top), so I would put it a cut above "solid."
-
I've found that, as my life has progressed, I've paid less and less attention to lyrics. In part that's because I can't just lie around blasting an album and listening to it over and over anymore. And, while I HATE to admit it, it's harder for me to read lyrics in a CD booklet the way I could read lyrics on an album sleeve in my teens and 20s.
Back when it was the JP & MP show, I always thought I liked JP's lyrics better, but then I realized I was misattributing some songs. I had it in my head that MP was responsible for the heavy stuff and JP was responsible for the proggy stuff. Beyond This Life is a good example. For quite a while, I mistakenly thought it was an MP lyric.
Looking now at a list of DT songs by lyricist, the only JLB songs that have really hit with me are Blind Faith, Out of Reach, Sacrificed Sons and Vacant (although SS is really ITNOG Part 2).
JM stuff has been generally good. I always like LTL, but it became personally meaningful when my wife's father died of AIDS in 1995 - about six months before we got married (he contracted it via tainted blood used in a transfusion). I've always thought Lifting Shadows was a cool lyric, and Fatal Tragedy is excellent.
KM's songs have been hit or miss. LOVE Surrounded and Only a Matter of Time, but not so much with Lie and 6:00.
Same with MP. ACOS, Home and Strange Deja Vu are great, but I'm not a fan of any of the 12SS songs, and stuff like Never Enough and Honor Thy Father verges on juvenile.
JP probably has 2-3 lyrics I like for every one I don't care for, and even some of the songs for which he is most maligned I kind of like.
-
I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb (Hey Ho, Let's Go by NMB, for example) or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me, so it's fine. Having said that, there's really good lyrics and there's others that aren't. For example, ACOS and TBOT were written by the same person and have a similar base theme (the loss of a parent), but the results were very different.
-
I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb (Hey Ho, Let's Go by NMB, for example) or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me, so it's fine. Having said that, there's really good lyrics and there's others that aren't. For example, ACOS and TBOT were written by the same person and have a similar base theme (the loss of a parent), but the results were very different.
The difference being, the lyrics of one are more personally related than the other. The Best of Times, reads as if MP is talking to his Dad (He died during the making of the album, but still got to listen to it). A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother.
-
I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb . . . or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me. . . .
I think that accurately summarizes where I am these days.
A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother.
I have to wonder why folks continue to say this. MP's mother's death is only one part of ACOS. According MP, ACOS is "about the cycle of life. Basically, I took a lot of personal incidents, like losing my mother and a couple of things that happened in my life, and I wrote them into the lyrics. Like, on a smaller scale, I wouldn't try to compare it with this, but when I listen to Pink Floyd's the Wall, there are a lot of emotions there- just a lot of frustrations and anger. He goes full circle, the character. He has a child and just as he's about to pass on and die, now his son is going to have to live the life he did and go through those same experiences."
https://mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/30.aspx#297
-
A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother.
I have to wonder why folks continue to say this. MP's mother's death is only one part of ACOS. According MP, ACOS is "about the cycle of life. Basically, I took a lot of personal incidents, like losing my mother and a couple of things that happened in my life, and I wrote them into the lyrics. Like, on a smaller scale, I wouldn't try to compare it with this, but when I listen to Pink Floyd's the Wall, there are a lot of emotions there- just a lot of frustrations and anger. He goes full circle, the character. He has a child and just as he's about to pass on and die, now his son is going to have to live the life he did and go through those same experiences."
https://mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/30.aspx#297
Wow, that's something I don't recall reading before. I think people, myself included, relate it so much to his mother's death is because, iirc, he posts the song every year on the anniversary of her death (same as with TBOT for his father).
-
I don't think relating it to his mother's death is at all inaccurate. Yes, there is more to it than that. But even with that description, his mother's death and its impact on him is a huge part of it.
-
I don't think relating it to his mother's death is at all inaccurate. Yes, there is more to it than that. But even with that description, his mother's death and its impact on him is a huge part of it.
Agree, and it's why I said life changing story.
-
To say that the song is "about" his mother's death (as lots of folks do) or to call it "a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother" just isn't correct (or, at best, is incomplete). His mother's death is a part of it, but it's much more than that.
-
I don't think DoT has aged well with me. I listened to both this and ADTOE recently, and ADTOE is still great for the most part besides the production. With DoT, I can take or leave the first 3 tracks, Barstool is cool, then I lose interest again until the last 3 songs, which is a great EP's worth of decent DT music. The bonus track I can also take or leave, though I like the groove riffs. ADTOE only has one song I don't care for (BMU, BMD)
-
I haven't thought much about this album for a while. At Wit's End is the only song I specifically reach for. I also do enjoy Paralyzed-FitL-BW quite a bit. It's an album I can enjoy start to finish without any 'definite skip' songs or "how much longer is this album?' thoughts, but it's not one I have an urge to spin much.
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
I can concede with Along for the Ride but Surrender is a top 5 song quintessential song that I would introduce DT to people.
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
Nah. Systematic Chaos is worse. And Awake is 3 good opening songs then boring as fuck from then on.
-
Awake is 3 good opening songs then boring as fuck from then on.
HAHAHAHAHAHA No.
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
FII would like to have a word with you :lol
-
FII > Awake
-
Guys, this is the Distance Over Time thread, the controversial opinions are two doors down. :corn
-
Guys, this is the Distance Over Time thread, the controversial opinions are two doors down. :corn
In YOUR opinion :neverusethis:
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
Not even close. At least WDADU, FII, SC, BC&SL and TA are worse.
Awake is 3 good opening songs then boring as fuck from then on.
HAHAHAHAHAHA No.
Agree. Every song on Awake is no worse than really good except for Innocence Faded and The Mirror.
FII > Awake
Back in the day, Awake beat up FII on the playground on pretty much a daily basis.
Guys, this is the Distance Over Time thread, the controversial opinions are two doors down. :corn
Well...yeah....
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
Nah. Systematic Chaos is worse. And Awake is 3 good opening songs then boring as fuck from then on.
Now you're just trolling me.
-
Guys, this is the Distance Over Time thread, the controversial opinions are two doors down. :corn
That's right but this one can actually be posted in both.
Long story short, this is the result of my experience over the last 3 albums.
DT12: Punched me in the gut.
TA: Kicked me while I was down.
DoT: "Come with me if you wanna live". :lol :2metal:
-
As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.
That's because DT12 is the worst DT album.
FII would like to have a word with you :lol
WDADU already did.
-
Guys, this is the Distance Over Time thread, the controversial opinions are two doors down. :corn
That's right but this one can actually be posted in both.
Long story short, this is the result of my experience over the last 3 albums.
DT12: Punched me in the gut.
TA: Kicked me while I was down.
DoT: "Come with me if you wanna live". :lol :2metal:
This is hilarious.
-
For me the biggest determining factor in where I rank an album is "how often do I play it."
Based on just that criteria, Images & Words will be my #1 Dream Theater album for a long time because I must have repeat played that thing 10,000 times. It was ALL I listened to until they released Awake, which, to me, is Dream Theater's most overrated album. I was disappointed with it then and to this day I rank it in the bottom 1/3 of their catalog. I rarely listen to it and usually the only time I hear any of those songs is on the live albums. The only other albums that are like that for me are the debut and The Astonishing. I'll even admit I've never made it all the way through the first disc and I don't even know what the second disc sounds like, after 4 or 5 tracks I'd heard enough. It's just not the kind of thing I listen to Dream Theater for.
One thing about this band that I've learned over the years is they're never afraid to try something new and different and I give them a lot of credit for that even if I don't always like the outcome. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there like that and I admire it.
Anyway, so as I mentioned already, the number of times I go back to an album is the thing that tells me the most about how I like it and unfortunately Distance Over Time, while having a few really good songs, is also going to end up ranking in the bottom 1/3. In fact, those are my bottom 3 albums, The Astonishing in last place, Distance over Time next to last and the debut just above that. Yes, I like the debut more than Distance over Time and The Astonishing. The debut is really an incredible album, musically. The vocals are, well, they could have been better.
-
I have been feeling a certain way about Distance over Time for a while, and never really been able to sum up how I feel about it. I think you summed up my thoughts pretty well, Kirk. There's some really good songs on DoT, but for some reason I just don't feel any draw to it, no desire to go back and listen to it. I thought this would change when I saw them play some tracks from it live on the tour earlier this year, (that was what happened for me on the 2014 tour with Awake) but I really didn't. Despite being leagues above The Astonishing for me, it's still not grabbing me in the same way most other DT releases have
-
For me the biggest determining factor in where I rank an album is "how often do I play it."
Based on just that criteria, Images & Words will be my #1 Dream Theater album for a long time because I must have repeat played that thing 10,000 times. It was ALL I listened to until they released Awake, which, to me, is Dream Theater's most overrated album. I was disappointed with it then and to this day I rank it in the bottom 1/3 of their catalog. I rarely listen to it and usually the only time I hear any of those songs is on the live albums. The only other albums that are like that for me are the debut and The Astonishing. I'll even admit I've never made it all the way through the first disc and I don't even know what the second disc sounds like, after 4 or 5 tracks I'd heard enough. It's just not the kind of thing I listen to Dream Theater for.
One thing about this band that I've learned over the years is they're never afraid to try something new and different and I give them a lot of credit for that even if I don't always like the outcome. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there like that and I admire it.
Anyway, so as I mentioned already, the number of times I go back to an album is the thing that tells me the most about how I like it and unfortunately Distance Over Time, while having a few really good songs, is also going to end up ranking in the bottom 1/3. In fact, those are my bottom 3 albums, The Astonishing in last place, Distance over Time next to last and the debut just above that. Yes, I like the debut more than Distance over Time and The Astonishing. The debut is really an incredible album, musically. The vocals are, well, they could have been better.
Man, I could've written this post myself. Those are my exact thoughts!
DOT, while widely considered a return to form, literally does nothing for me. The brickwalled production is really what kills me here, but generally, despite a handful of attempts to revisit, there's nothing outside of a few songs that really grabs my ear.
As far as The Astonishing, other than 'A Life Left Behind,' I literally cannot get into that record whatsoever.
But, to your point, I give them credit for trying new things, and am happy that the majority of the fanbase was so happy with DOT.
-
I no longer listen to brand new albums to death to where i'm sick of them...
I usually listen to them on repeat for about a week then very sporadically after that.
That way - when i do decide to play it again - it still sounds fresh - years later.
The only reason I haven't listened to Distance Over Time in a while is because I listened to it A LOT when it came out and I don't want to get sick of it.
Also that way - I find the 'gap' until the NEXT album that much shorter . If I only listen to the most recent album VERY occasionally - when another album comes out - the
previous one still feels new.
----
That said I think Distance Over Time is comfortably the best album with Mangini so far. If the drums sounded better on Dream Theater it may have been that one.
I see Distance Over Time as a way of re-doing their "eponymous" album. It's a very similar style with mostly all shorter songs but they couldnt call it Dream Theater again
so they called it something that could be abbreviated to D/T.
-
DoT is still one of my favorite car albums. FITL is a blast! Barstool is as beautiful and perfect as day one. Honestly this is the best catchy melodic song they've done since Surrounded, which is big in my book. At Wits End is amazing and Pale Blue Dot could be better, since the intro is mind blowing and the rest never reach the same levels, but overall great track. The rest are solid tracks that work well in the album flow.
All in all DoT stands the test of time really well. It's fun and varied and a big step up in fidelity from what ever they did with ADTOE and onward. I can't believe how anyone could ever say that WDADU or self titled is better. The awful sound of both albums alone should make that impossible :o
-
DoT is still one of my favorite car albums. FITL is a blast! Barstool is as beautiful and perfect as day one. Honestly this is the best catchy melodic song they've done since Surrounded, which is big in my book. At Wits End is amazing and Pale Blue Dot could be better, since the intro is mind blowing and the rest never reach the same levels, but overall great track. The rest are solid tracks that work well in the album flow.
All in all DoT stands the test of time really well. It's fun and varied and a big step up in fidelity from what ever they did with ADTOE and onward. I can't believe how anyone could ever say that WDADU or self titled is better. The awful sound of both albums alone should make that impossible :o
I agree with everything you just said here.
-
It's not til Barstool Warrior that the album really kicks off, but then I don't care for the next few songs, and then the last 3 tunes are pretty good. Bonus track is ok like the first 3 tracks. So not a return to form, that would require the band to let MP rejoin or write with MP's style in mind (see: ADTOE)
-
So not a return to form, that would require the band to let MP rejoin or write with MP's style in mind (see: ADTOE)
:rollin
Distance Over Time is the best album since Octavarium. They don't need Ol' Blue Beard in the band to make classic sounding DT music.
Also - Sons Of Apolling have MP in the band and neither of their albums sound like classic DT either.
-
Haven't listened to the album since the release window. Maybe I feel different now, but then I felt the album lacked any interesting vocal-hooks (and I do think their preceding three albums deliver on that front), while the music itself was really good.
-
So not a return to form, that would require the band to let MP rejoin or write with MP's style in mind (see: ADTOE)
:rollin
Distance Over Time is the best album since Octavarium. They don't need Ol' Blue Beard in the band to make classic sounding DT music.
Also - Sons Of Apolling have MP in the band and neither of their albums sound like classic DT either.
I agree 100% with you.
-
So not a return to form, that would require the band to let MP rejoin or write with MP's style in mind (see: ADTOE)
:rollin
Distance Over Time is the best album since Octavarium. They don't need Ol' Blue Beard in the band to make classic sounding DT music.
Also - Sons Of Apolling have MP in the band and neither of their albums sound like classic DT either.
I think DoT is the best since ADTOE, but it's not better than ADTOE. ADTOE is the best album since Octavarium, but I enjoyed the last two MP albums.
Octavarium is the band's last classic album, with good flow, all the in between track stuff, the greatest song the band has written, and lots of other things we don't usually hear from the band. ADTOE is good, but its production flaws and the fact that they're trying to recreate the past brings it down. Say what you want, but even though MP touted BC&SL as an album with ACOS, The Glass Prison, Octavarium, etc.. all in one album, the album didn't sound like any of the older albums/era those songs came from (obviously excluding The Shattered Fortress for obvious reasons) They were always moving forward, which hasn't happened since ADTOE. They've sounded the same on every album, even though they claim some rule of doing something different every album. They may try different themes for an album, but the style of the music hasn't evolved, other than trying to prove, when they're not letting Rudess play slow boring sad piano themes for 2 hours, that they can play really fast with an even more technical drummer... but where's the feel? I'm a musician, and I don't get off on a million notes played over every time signature possible and then awkwardly drop into a "it-was-barely-mainstream-anymore-10-years-ago" rock ballad anthem chorus bridge that doesn't fit with everything that had just preceded it. Just my opinion of course.
I'm not familiar with Sons of Apollo yet, I'm behind on a lot of MP-projects, been catching up recently.
-
Personally I share the opinion of darkshade. The 4 albums that they produced after MP left lack in variety, creative ambition and adequate exploration of styles.
Also I want to talk about a little bit about ADTOE. I think this album doesn't belong anywhere in the scope of the band meaning simply that, to me, it's a transitional album and a post-echo of the DT that used to be until then. It was a product of the departure of MP combined by the effort of JP and the band to prove that they still maintain the style, sound and playing that they are known for. They succeeded in that respect but moving forward they left a lot to be desired. I'll be very surprised if the upcoming album will be anything drastically different from DoT..
-
Well they did something vastly different on The Astonishing. A 2 hour concept album with very short songs, not one epic and a LOT of ballads and not a lot of shredding.
...The fans hated it.
I'm 100% fine with DT sounding like DT on every album :dunno:
Why do they have to suddenly do an album of Nicaraguan Pan Pipe Throat singing for some people to find it 'valid' ?
It'll probably sound like Dream Theater. . . It's their living after all..
-
Kotowboy I get what you're saying and totally respect that. What can I say, the reason why I still keep listening to them is that they spoiled me..Every time they released an album it was a surprise (for the most part) plus they made me have great expectations..not a good thing I suppose! I wholeheartedly wish they deliver some great satisfying music that makes us all happy!
-
If they make albums like ADTOE, DT12 & D/T for the remainder of their career i'm fine with that.
Everyone is 50 and Jordan is 64 in 2 weeks now so be happy that the albums are still quality.
-
If they make albums like ADTOE, DT12 & D/T for the remainder of their career i'm fine with that.
Everyone is 50 and Jordan is 64 in 2 weeks now so be happy that the albums are still quality.
Count me among the ones that didn´t like The Astonishing.
Still I would prefer them pushing their boundaries like they did on that album instead of playing it safe like they did on DT12 and DoT.
-
The discussion here made me realize that:
1. Haven't listened to DOT since the release window. Plus, haven't listened any DT album since DOT.
2. I wondered, which DT's albums have I listened to independently in the last 10 years (outside the context of listening to the discography in chronological sequence)?
Well, if I remember correctly - I&W, FII, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT and Mangini era.
But it is worth saying that in the last 6-7 years I have become a listener of discography. Except for a few releases, I listen to isolated discs less and less. It became a craze. :lol
-
It's true. People just don't have the time for music anymore.
-
Well, if I remember correctly - I&W, FII, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT and Mangini era.
For me, all those pre-Mangini albums, plus Train of Thought and Octavarium as well. Things started getting weird on SC and the band hasn't been the same since, and as someone highly critical of the Mangini era, I fail to see how it was Portnoy's fault for the decline in the last 15 years. Him leaving didn't improve things in my eyes/ears, in fact, things slowly got worse. I'd have taken 3 or 4 more albums like SC or Black Clouds, or a hiatus and coming back 5 years later with a big album, over nearly all of the post-Portnoy output. I thought BC&SL was actually a step in the right direction, but SC and BC&SL have aged well IMO. I really liked ADTOE when it came out, but in hindsight I think it is flawed musically, and was a transitional album to the era we've had for the last 10 years. I agree with Ignotus, about ADTOE being an echo of the band that used to be, while it was also a preview of things to come, unfortunately, both with production, and musically. The one good thing is Myung has been more audible (but I think he's audible just fine in earlier releases, even Train of Thought.)
-
It's true. People just don't have the time for music anymore.
Yeah, it's just a matter of time.
-
Well, if I remember correctly - I&W, FII, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT and Mangini era.
For me, all those pre-Mangini albums, plus Train of Thought and Octavarium as well. Things started getting weird on SC and the band hasn't been the same since, and as someone highly critical of the Mangini era, I fail to see how it was Portnoy's fault for the decline in the last 15 years. Him leaving didn't improve things in my eyes/ears, in fact, things slowly got worse. I'd have taken 3 or 4 more albums like SC or Black Clouds, or a hiatus and coming back 5 years later with a big album, over nearly all of the post-Portnoy output. I thought BC&SL was actually a step in the right direction, but SC and BC&SL have aged well IMO. I really liked ADTOE when it came out, but in hindsight I think it is flawed musically, and was a transitional album to the era we've had for the last 10 years. I agree with Ignotus, about ADTOE being an echo of the band that used to be, while it was also a preview of things to come, unfortunately, both with production, and musically. The one good thing is Myung has been more audible (but I think he's audible just fine in earlier releases, even Train of Thought.)
And I probably wouldn't be here writing anything about DT.
:rollin
-
Still like DOT. I'm not in a DT space right now but a few weeks back I listened to it and really enjoyed it still.
SC, DT and BCSL get no attention from me, however, and i can't imagine revisiting.
-
To me, every album up through Octavarium had elements that were new, different, and/or surprising. For what I believe are probably obvious reasons, I would also put The Astonishing into that category as well. SC and BCSL didn't have that. And that's okay--they were still solid albums.
Coming into the Mangini era, ADTOE, DT12, and DoT don't really have that "new, different, and/or surprising" element either. I would say that they all feel very "safe" in terms of the writing--not a lot that is new or different, but just DT doing what they do best, and doing it well. And that's ok. Heck, both ADTOE and DT12 are in my top 5 DT albums of all time, so I am absolutely not knocking albums being "safe"--especially so deep into the band's career. They obviously are going to have an established sound by now, and also pretty obviously aren't going to significantly deviate from it too often.
To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12 for me. But it is still a really good album. It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality. Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me.
-
To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12 for me. But it is still a really good album. It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality. Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me.
Listen to bosk1 in all things.
-
That thought seems legit. I think DT wanted to play things safe with MM and then felt comfortable to explore more and kind of got burned by the fanbase for that and went back to safe. All good albums IMO, but I do wonder if they'll try something different for next time.
-
That thought seems legit. I think DT wanted to play things safe with MM and then felt comfortable to explore more and kind of got burned by the fanbase for that and went back to safe. All good albums IMO, but I do wonder if they'll try something different for next time.
I'd welcome it. I liked TA for what it was, and it was done well. Bosk is right though.
-
To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12 for me. But it is still a really good album. It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality. Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me.
Yeah I dont get it either. The whole " well theres nothing on this album they havent done before so its lame " mentality.
Does it have good songs ? YES/NO
Secondly is it well produced ?
Everything else is Tertiary.
After 35 years i'm glad they can still write albums like Distance Over Time and aren't just doing their most successful album again and again and again for easy $$$
-
Well, if I remember correctly - I&W, FII, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT and Mangini era.
For me, all those pre-Mangini albums, plus Train of Thought and Octavarium as well. Things started getting weird on SC and the band hasn't been the same since, and as someone highly critical of the Mangini era, I fail to see how it was Portnoy's fault for the decline in the last 15 years. Him leaving didn't improve things in my eyes/ears, in fact, things slowly got worse. I'd have taken 3 or 4 more albums like SC or Black Clouds, or a hiatus and coming back 5 years later with a big album, over nearly all of the post-Portnoy output. I thought BC&SL was actually a step in the right direction, but SC and BC&SL have aged well IMO. I really liked ADTOE when it came out, but in hindsight I think it is flawed musically, and was a transitional album to the era we've had for the last 10 years. I agree with Ignotus, about ADTOE being an echo of the band that used to be, while it was also a preview of things to come, unfortunately, both with production, and musically. The one good thing is Myung has been more audible (but I think he's audible just fine in earlier releases, even Train of Thought.)
And I probably wouldn't be here writing anything about DT.
:rollin
I don't mean they would have sounded like those two albums. A lot of stuff from the last 4, or at least first 2 with Mangini, albums would likely have made it onto these hypothetical DT albums with MP. Or MP gets his way and a 2-5 year hiatus and maybe you're right, but you never know.
-
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.
'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.
Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.
-
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.
'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.
Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.
So define innovation. What would you have done different or want different?
-
...and the album lacks innovation.
I agree with this. But at the same time, that has never been something that detracted from my enjoyment, even a little bit.
-
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.
'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.
Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.
So define innovation. What would you have done different or want different?
They didn't do anything to push their sound forward, which has really been going on since ADTOE. Each album has had a safe feeling, other than TA, but there, the band still had the same general sound they've had since Mangini joined, just in a different context. With DoT, the band sort of reverted back to an ADTOE/DT12 type of sound, much of the music on DoT could have been on either of those albums.
-
wrote out a long post, posted it, and it was mangled all to shit happens to me all time time here, what the fuck
-
Anyway, the gist of it was I hope they write ADTOE II that album stands head and shoulders above the other three in the Mangini era
-
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).
Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way. I understand they needed such a piece to bring back the fans that declared war eternal on The Astonishing (for what I feel is a pretty well thought-out argument on why I find TA to be a wonderful album feel free to check the "I see why they left MP go" thread) and thus delivering what, I think, should've been the self-titled back in 2013.
This one has songs that, to me, are instant DT classics like Barstool Warrior or Pale Blue Dot and was definitely a step in the right direction regarding mixing and mastering, with a far more modern and engaging soundscape and I do think it's going to age well, but I feel it's going to suffer the eventual fate that SC or Black Clouds suffered. Those two albums are good in their own right, but they're right in the middle of the controversial Octavarium and the game-changing first album with Mangini on drums.
I for, one, am super excited with their new recording process because I cannot see them taking the safe route again. They needed an album like DOT in 2018/2019, and they delivered greatly and fans are mostly happy with the way things are in DT land now *shields himself from the upcoming barrage of MP Warrior comments* and they're in a great place to do something more daring and exciting.
-
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).
Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?
-
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).
Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?
I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.
Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.
-
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).
Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?
I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.
Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.
Excellent post.
-
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).
Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?
I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.
Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.
That didn't really answer Scotty's question. All you've basically said is that you like ADTOE a lot better than the albums that came before it. But what is "daring or life changing"? I like ADTOE too, but I like DT12 a bit better, and I think ADTOE is really only a little better than DOT. Those three MM era albums are very close for me, and I like all three better than the last two MP era albums, but I don't find anything "daring or life changing" or particularly "inspired" about any of them, and I don't think any are in the same class as I&W, Awake or SFAM.
-
That didn't really answer Scotty's question. All you've basically said is that you like ADTOE a lot better than the albums that came before it. But what is "daring or life changing"? I like ADTOE too, but I like DT12 a bit better, and I think ADTOE is really only a little better than DOT. Those three MM era albums are very close for me, and I like all three better than the last two MP era albums, but I don't find anything "daring or life changing" or particularly "inspired" about any of them, and I don't think any are in the same class as I&W, Awake or SFAM.
I really did not mean to textually answer Scotty's question as such lol, as I in my original post did not state ADTOE was a "daring or life changing" album but for some reason the discussion turned into that direction. I stated the reasons I think ADTOE is so important in DT's career and why I like it so much and that's it. No need to debate about something that really didn't ask to be debated. It's so easy to answer something with another question, as I could now ask you something along the lines of: "okay, so now you tell me why Awake is a daring and life changing album" but that would not take us anywhere. Not all the pieces of music I love or enjoy have to be "life changing", and just to clear things up it was said more in a figure of speech manner and not to be interpreted textually; so that renders this discussion pretty much pointless in my eyes.
In a speculative manner, I can only think that ADTOE was very life changing for DT because it was the first album without their "leader", so to speak, and its enormous success put some strong roots in the career DT had ahead of them, and there's that.
-
Overall ADTOE seems like a much denser body of work than anything the band has done prior. I think there's a higher concentration of "prog metal nerdiness" :lol to be found in many of the longer tracks (Lost Not Forgotten, Bridges In the Sky, Outcry, Breaking All Illusions) than there was before. The instrumental stuff just seems a little bit more "on steroids" than usual for DT. In contrast, S/T and D/T seem more like a return to more balanced waters. Just my 2 cents..
-
Overall ADTOE seems like a much denser body of work than anything the band has done prior. I think there's a higher concentration of "prog metal nerdiness" :lol to be found in many of the longer tracks (Lost Not Forgotten, Bridges In the Sky, Outcry, Breaking All Illusions) than there was before. The instrumental stuff just seems a little bit more "on steroids" than usual for DT. In contrast, S/T and D/T seem more like a return to more balanced waters. Just my 2 cents..
Yeah, I definitely feel that, and I think that it was only natural. They had to prove MM's prowess to the fanbase and the world, as DT has always been the "group of guys that are so amazing at their instruments" band and they know that.
Also, the whole progressive metal scene nowadays is so full of amazing players and technical music it's crazy. Some stuff by bands like Animals as Leaders for example, mathematically speaking, can really give DT a run for their money; so as the poster boys of the genre they kinda had to up their game in that regard.
-
I did love how people tried to make out A Dramatic Turn Of Events was Dream Theater basically copy and pasting Images and Words
as if they were unable to write without MP around.
When musically they could not be more different - and who cares if you copy an ARRANGEMENT anyway ?
In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.
-
In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.
And it was not an entire album anyway. They used five songs and didn't even follow them to the letter (piano intro for Lost Not Forgotten, chorus for Outcry structurally similar to Metropolis which doesn't have a chorus.....)
-
How many people mocked Systematic Chaos for being almost identical in structure to Octavarium ?
if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 min song at the end of the album it would have been almost the same.
Maybe half the reason they split it in two.
-
D/T is my favorite MM era album. Is it innovative? In the context of the band's discography, I find it is. In the sense that it got the essence of the DT sound without going the long song wanky route that was sort of their thing from SDOIT onwards. This is what they were trying to do in DT12, but they really nailed it this time. AWE felt like one of their long epics without actually being long.
And they actually have three songs whose styles I haven't heard from them before: Room 137. S2n. and Viper King.
I think they would continue going this short to medium-length song route. The streaming market literally forces them to do it, with revenues coming in based on number of track plays. Long songs do not make sense in this revenue environment.
-
I did love how people tried to make out A Dramatic Turn Of Events was Dream Theater basically copy and pasting Images and Words
as if they were unable to write without MP around.
If that's what you think that dead-horse discussion was about, then you completely missed the point.
who cares if you copy an ARRANGEMENT anyway ?
Translation: This isn't really an interrogative statement; it's a declarative statement that you don't care.
In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.
JP has never fessed up to doing this, and it wasn't the entire album. However, if it was done intentionally (and it's so obvious on at least a couple songs that there's no way it wasn't intentional), I agree that it was an interesting concept -- one that I think worked very well with BAI.
-
How many people mocked Systematic Chaos for being almost identical in structure to Octavarium ?
if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 min song at the end of the album it would have been almost the same.
Maybe half the reason they split it in two.
Not at all. Sorry but this whole 8v and SC are "almost identical in structure" is a big stretch. Yeah, both have a 20+ minute epic, a semi-epic that starts off mellow and has an extended instrumental section, a heavy Muse-influenced song and (surprise surprise) another part of the 12SS. But let's be real - those are broad descriptions, and the individual songs have little to no correlation to their supposed equivalent. Likewise, there's no U2-ish song, nor super sappy ballad, nor rock song on baritone guitar with a Neal Schon-esque solo on SC. And there's no Evanescence-y song, nor a song with Pantera-ish riffs, shouted verses and wacky Zappa-esque instrumental section on 8v. Plus there aren't equivalents for Constant Motion and Panic Attack on the opposing albums.
The thing is, you can be sure that as they were writing the various tracks for SC, MP wasn't saying "hey - let's make sure that we include these same style tracks that we just did on our last album!" In an interview that I did with MP back in 2004, when I asked him if he would ever consider using previous DT albums for "inspiration corner" instead of other bands' albums, he said:
We would never make a record with the mindset “let’s try to re-do this” or use Images and Words or Awake as inspiration corner – we don’t ever want to repeat ourselves. In fact, we would use those more as references for things not to do, because we’ve already done them! There’s been times where we have looked at our past records and said “wait – we’ve already done that – we can’t do that again.” So if anything, those earlier albums are not so much an influence, they’re more of a guideline for us to not repeat ourselves.
OTOH, after MP left, JP directed the band to "get back to their roots" for their first album without MP. What better way to go back to their roots than to get ideas from the album that put them on the map in the first place and remains the most popular album in their catalog? Whether it started out as a simple writing exercise akin to the 2003 Stream of Consciousness fan club contest or something less innocent, it's quite evident that 5 of the songs on ADToE were initially based off the structures of songs from IaW. Structurally they may not be carbon copies of what is on IaW but it's to be expected that they'd probably make minor tweaks and adjustments as they went along. The reality is there are far too many similarities for this to all be purely coincidental.
-
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.
[edit: thinking about it a little more. Both track 3's have unison parts, but they occur in different spots in the songs, so it's not really structurally similar]
-
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.
Nope, the pairings in structures are:
Pull Me Under / On the Back of Angels
Under a Glass Moon / Lost Not Forgotten (without the piano intro of course)
Metropolis / Outcry (but with a chorus)
Wait for Sleep / Far from Heaven
Learning to Live / Breaking All Illusions
The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.
-
^^ OK that makes a lot more sense. So it's a track to track comparison and not a running order thing really. I should have read Setlist Scotty's post more carfully.
-
It's funny how the pairing thing makes me love ADToE even more until today! That album is amazing, and the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.
That's the kind of song structure I actually missed on DT12, TA and D/T. Not that I want them to have an older album as inspiration again, but there's something special when they write music like that. I am not complaining though, I look forward to every single new DT music anyway :metal
-
That's interesting since the structure of the songs is the biggest issue with ADTOE for me. It doesn't sound as dynamic and lack parts that elevate the songs beyond solid. I&W is a great example of using similar structure but the songs sound fresh, exciting and groovy throughout the full play length. BAI however manages to do something really amazing using a similar structure as LTL.
I thought D/T was a big comeback to songs with great dynamic. Only PBD was bumming me out since that one would really elevate if the structure was as mystical and epic as the subject matter 😁
-
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.
Nope, the pairings in structures are:
Pull Me Under / On the Back of Angels
Under a Glass Moon / Lost Not Forgotten (without the piano intro of course)
Metropolis / Outcry (but with a chorus)
Wait for Sleep / Far from Heaven
Learning to Live / Breaking All Illusions
The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.
Maybe someone can find it, but I recently did a fairly in depth comparison of LTL and BAI that includes time stamps and describes what's the same versus what's different.
Here's an article that did something similar for a couple of the other songs and which stirred up a bunch of controversy at the time: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150771825130184
the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.
Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).
-
The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.
Don't forget Another Day / This Is the Life
And really the connection between WFS and FFH really is more of them both being piano/vocal pieces that are preludes to the closing epics of their respective albums. WFS and FFH really aren't the same structurally, even tho LtL and BAI are.
the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.
Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).
To a degree, I also agree, because it does take a lot of effort to write parts that fit the basic descriptions of those structural outlines, as well as to make sure everything fits, works well and smoothly transitions from one part to another. But OTOH, I can why some are critical with the idea of it being considered "cheating" since it wasn't as if they came up the ideas in a completely organic, natural way as they had done with everything up until that point.
That said, it's not my favorite album of theirs, but there are several songs on it that I do enjoy, especially BAI.
-
Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).
Yeah! I remember when this discussion was going on that even MP addressed the subject.
-
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
-
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
That's how I found out about the similarities. And Thiago himself says that he doesn't see the references as something bad.
-
The band never confirmed any of that.
-
The band never confirmed any of that.
The comparisons are pretty obvious (at least with OTBOA and BAI; I've never really looked at the others) -- so much so that there's no way any reasonable person could believe it was anything but intentional, so confirmation isn't needed.
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
Same content as the link I shared. Formatted differently for whatever reason.
-
The band never confirmed any of that.
The comparisons are pretty obvious (at least with OTBOA and BAI; I've never really looked at the others) -- so much so that there's no way any reasonable person could believe it was anything but intentional, so confirmation isn't needed.
Well, JP denied that... he could be lying (who knows?), but the band (JP) did make a statement about this.
-
I don't know. Didn't John Petrucci recently say in an interview something to the effect of spending a lot of time working on a song only to find that it's the same as a song that he had already done? Basically stating that all that time was wasted. I believe this may have been in regards to his new solo release.
I know this anecdote has nothing to do with ADTOE, but I'm using it to illustrate the point that sometimes artists like JP repeat themselves without realizing it. The structural similarity between all those tunes on I&W and ADTOE could be a very similar situation from a creative standpoint. Sounds reasonable enough to me :angel:
-
Distance Over Time is a good album innit :P
-
The first time I heard On the Backs of Angels I thought it built up in a similar way to Pull Me Under. It "felt" the same somehow. But that was neither good nor bad; it's just something I noticed, and I'm sure others would, too. This was before any of the so-called controversy. The next thing I heard was that the entire album was basically structured the same and Images and Words, and I thought that that was dumb.
But if one looks hard enough, and if one is specifically looking for similarities, they can be found. Or at least things that have some similar elements. That's all it is.
-
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
That's how I found out about the similarities. And Thiago himself says that he doesn't see the references as something bad.
Right, but back then he really worded his opinions (in forum posts and such) in a way that felt more in a "DT basically did I&W all over again and that's because their spiritual leader left" way if I recall correctly. Nothing against Thiago whose comparisons are in places really spot on, but it's not so much the things you say but the way you say them.
-
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
That's how I found out about the similarities. And Thiago himself says that he doesn't see the references as something bad.
Right, but back then he really worded his opinions (in forum posts and such) in a way that felt more in a "DT basically did I&W all over again and that's because their spiritual leader left" way if I recall correctly. Nothing against Thiago whose comparisons are in places really spot on, but it's not so much the things you say but the way you say them.
Hmmmm that's a good point!! And you're totally right, the way you say things change it all.
-
Is this the link?
https://www.facebook.com/notes/thiago-campos/a-dramatic-turn-of-events-images-words-revisited-spoiler/10150771825130184/
That's how I found out about the similarities. And Thiago himself says that he doesn't see the references as something bad.
Right, but back then he really worded his opinions (in forum posts and such) in a way that felt more in a "DT basically did I&W all over again and that's because their spiritual leader left" way if I recall correctly. Nothing against Thiago whose comparisons are in places really spot on, but it's not so much the things you say but the way you say them.
Hmmmm that's a good point!! And you're totally right, the way you say things change it all.
Yeah, I remember being really impressed with Thiago's comparison but he kinda took it too far mostly because the Portnoy thing was still too fresh, and some people were still kinda very sensitive about those matters (still are? lol). He drew way too much attention to himself and his own progressive metal outlet out of the controversy sparked by his post (cannot blame him for that though, any chance of success you just seize it).
-
I joined this forum a few days before A Dramatic Turn of Events came out. I remember people talking about the similarities between that album & Images and Words. I never caught on to those similarities even after all this time. I'm not saying they do not exist...just that I don't care *shrug*
Distance Over Time is a good album innit :P
Indeed, mang :metal I just wish there was a leetle more Rudenessness. The keyboards are very understated in most of the songs.
-
gave this a spin today and found that it's actually aging pretty well. In fact I think I appreciate it a little more now than I did when it was first released. I still think Petrucci held back all of his best riffs for the first 4 songs on his solo album.
-
Bump!
I've been digging DoT lately in preparation for AVFTTOTW. I can see why Barstool Warrior gets a lot of love but to me At Wit's End is the main event of this record. It's the only song from this album I wouldn't mind if they play in the next tour.
-
Bump!
I've been digging DoT lately in preparation for AVFTTOTW. I can see why Barstool Warrior gets a lot of love but to me At Wit's End is the main event of this record. It's the only song from this album I wouldn't mind if they play in the next tour.
At Wit's End is easily in my all-time top 10 DT songs.
-
Bump!
I've been digging DoT lately in preparation for AVFTTOTW. I can see why Barstool Warrior gets a lot of love but to me At Wit's End is the main event of this record. It's the only song from this album I wouldn't mind if they play in the next tour.
At Wit's End is easily in my all-time top 10 DT songs.
I haven't done a formal ranking in ages but I think it'd be in mine too. It's heavy, it's melodic, it transitions well from section to section, James takes it to another level at the end repeating "don't leave me now" over and over while JP pulls one of the most soothing solos since Goodnight Kiss.
Excellent excellent stuff.
-
AWE is the best DT song since SDOIT IMO. Love it. Absolutely awesome.
Would love to see it live, they didn't play it when I saw their DOT show.
-
AWE is the best DT song since SDOIT IMO. Love it. Absolutely awesome.
Would love to see it live, they didn't play it when I saw their DOT show.
It's on the Live in London. Not quite the same as being there, but the video and audio and James all are fantastic.
-
AWE really is a beast of a song. The only thing that keeps it from being a favorite of mine (in the same way that PDT is for example) is the 'Dont leave me now' chorus and ending. It just repeats too many times and is a little cheesy. The repetitions draw your attention to that. Other than that it is flawless to my ears.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
I listened to BSW and AWE in the car, what a great songwriting, what a guitar tone...It was delicious
And AWE just rips hearts out of the ribcage of emotion.
Viper king is great too :)
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
While those two are indeed phenomenal tracks, sone others are also excellent and far better than “stock DT tunes”. S2N is a ripping song - I love the drum work, the experimentation and sense of fun in that tune. I think Out of Reach is one of the best ballads they have ever done, Pale Blue Dot rocks and Fall into the Light is a terrific track with heaviness, melody and emotion. I actually really enjoy Paralyzed too. It’s a simple metal song executed well. Really solid album and still gets regular play from me…
-
This album and album rollout really went a long way towards reinvigorating my interest in DT. I'd fallen off a bit after the disappointment that I thought Black Clouds was, as well as Portnoy leaving. The lead up to the self-titled caught my eye again, and while I enjoyed the album, it didn't really save them for me enough to follow the release of the Astonishing.
It's still the only DT album that I've never been able to make it through, and they seemed so all-in on this project that I was really turned off by for what feels like the better part of 5 years.
DoT did really feel like their saving grace, though, and put one of my favorite bands back on my radar after almost a decade of feeling lukewarm about them, and for that I'm super appreciative of the album.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
I listened to BSW and AWE in the car, what a great songwriting, what a guitar tone...It was delicious
And AWE just rips hearts out of the ribcage of emotion.
Viper king is great too :)
Viper King is my favorite tune on DoT actually, but it's relegated to "bonus track" so I was only talking about the main album. It has a fun energy that is lacking in Mangini-era DT. I do however, find the transitions from the verses to the chorus to be a little jarring, with the double time tempo seemingly coming out of nowhere.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
While those two are indeed phenomenal tracks, sone others are also excellent and far better than “stock DT tunes”. S2N is a ripping song - I love the drum work, the experimentation and sense of fun in that tune. I think Out of Reach is one of the best ballads they have ever done, Pale Blue Dot rocks and Fall into the Light is a terrific track with heaviness, melody and emotion. I actually really enjoy Paralyzed too. It’s a simple metal song executed well. Really solid album and still gets regular play from me…
S2N is a promising track, but I find the chorus is really stock, typical-sounding Mangini-era chorus, and imo doesn't fit the feel of the rest of the song (and the song has a completely unnecessary outro that is all too similar to The Dark Eternal Night's outro (which DID fit the song)
-
S2N is a top tier Dream Theater song with the Wow factor!
-
S2N is a top tier Dream Theater song with the Wow factor!
Yup :metal
-
S2N is a top tier Dream Theater song with the Wow factor!
Yes. S2N sounds very refreshing while still maintaining that DT signature sound. Absolutely love it!
-
Listened to some of these songs yesterday after quite a while, and I didn't remember how loud the room mic is.... Lots of ambiance there. I remember JP talking about how they loved the acoustics of the barnyard used in the recordings, and now it clicked to me.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
-
S2N is a top tier Dream Theater song with the Wow factor!
Yes. S2N sounds very refreshing while still maintaining that DT signature sound. Absolutely love it!
I agree. I love how it feels at times like a structured jam. To me this is the "let's have fun" song they wrote on the album (Viper King aside)
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
Pale Blue Dot sounds like a stock tune but Wits End doesn't? What is so fresh about Wit's End that the other songs on the record don't exhibit?
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
Pale Blue Dot sounds like a stock tune but Wits End doesn't? What is so fresh about Wit's End that the other songs on the record don't exhibit?
AWE and BSW are the two songs where everything comes together and sounds like DT, and don't sound like role player songs (songs that have to be a certain way eg. "this is the poppy single, this is the ode to Metallica, this is the semi-epic closer with chugga chugga riffs and "dark" sounding chords we've done a million times over the previous 3 albums")
Sorry, but I find Pale Blue Dot has weak sounding drums (could be the mix) when they enter before the guitars it sounds thin, and then the guitars come in and overpower everything else. I also find it could have been fleshed out some more, maybe their 'rule' for that album to make things more concise didn't work as well with PBD.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
Pale Blue Dot sounds like a stock tune but Wits End doesn't? What is so fresh about Wit's End that the other songs on the record don't exhibit?
AWE and BSW are the two songs where everything comes together and sounds like DT, and don't sound like role player songs (songs that have to be a certain way eg. "this is the poppy single, this is the ode to Metallica, this is the semi-epic closer with chugga chugga riffs and "dark" chords we've done a million times")
But AWE has some of its own chugga riffs too, no? Under the "you feel I'm asking too much of you" and under JRs solo come to mind. PBD doesn't remind me of any other band's song and the main chugga riff is presented in an interesting way in a time signature (19/16) that I dont think the band has riffed in before (someone can correct me if I am wrong here about the time sig being new for the band). Also, how do you square your 'role player' critique of most of DoT with your fondness for the Octavarium album which has more blatantly obvious role player songs than any other DT album?
-
What can I say? It doesn't sound derivative on AWE. MAYBE a tiny bit of ITPOE in the beginning.. but I find it all works.
The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.
Not sure how Octavarium's songs are role players, other than the title track at the end. TROAE works well as an opener, with its build-up intro and all. The other songs follow the concept of changing keys each song.
-
The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.
I don't know if I totally agree. Sure TDEN and CM are heavy, but I feel like SC is way underrated in terms of its variety.
After the peak of Score, I feel like DT went into the studio for SC and just winged it. It's a fun album, and they clearly had no blueprint for it.
SC isn't any more metal than SFAM or Awake.
-
The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.
I don't know if I totally agree. Sure TDEN and CM are heavy, but I feel like SC is way underrated in terms of its variety.
After the peak of Score, I feel like DT went into the studio for SC and just winged it. It's a fun album, and they clearly had no blueprint for it.
SC isn't any more metal than SFAM or Awake.
SC is way more metal than SFAM and Awake. MP was literally calling for balls and chunk for the entire thing.
I wouldn't even call almost half of Awake metal, is 6:00 metal? Most of Innocence Faded? and much of Scenes isn't metal either (proggy? Yes. heavy? yes)
SC doesn't have songs like The Silent Man, LSOAD, Through Her Eyes, TSCO, etc...
I don't dislike SC, but to me, the flow of the album drops off significantly after TDEN and the album never recovers.
-
The Mirror and Lie are pretty damn heavy. As is 6:00 and Voices. Heck, even Scarred is quite heavy.
Other than TDEN and CM, what is so heavy about SC?
I'd actually call Awake heavier than SC.
And as far as Scenes, Fatal Tragedy is very heavy. Strange Deja Vu and Beyond This Life are also quite heavy.
If you want to talk about song quality, and rag on SC, that's fair, but classifying it as DT going heavy is really a misclassification.
-
Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem? That is quite a take.
-
The Mirror and Lie are pretty damn heavy. As is 6:00 and Voices. Heck, even Scarred is quite heavy.
Other than TDEN and CM, what is so heavy about SC?
I'd actually call Awake heavier than SC.
And as far as Scenes, Fatal Tragedy is very heavy. Strange Deja Vu and Beyond This Life are also quite heavy.
If you want to talk about song quality, and rag on SC, that's fair, but classifying it as DT going heavy is really a misclassification.
I never claimed there were not heavy songs on any DT albums. DoT to me doesn't have any of the softer songs or moments that Awake and Scenes have. All DT albums have their heavy moments.
Ranking DT albums for their overall heaviness or how metal the overall album is, would be a different ranking for me to what my general DT top14-15 albums would be. IMO the best DT is when they fuse metal equally with other styles or vastly different moods throughout the album. The exception for me is Train of Thought.
Train of Thought is just DT kicking everyone's ass non stop for well over an hour, with a 2 minute break in the middle for those who haven't perished yet. It comes off as the most genuine of their heaviest albums.
-
Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem? That is quite a take.
I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts :lol The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.
-
Honestly, I can remember the simulisten of ToT on MIRC with mike portnoy and loads of comments were like "oh the metallica section" "oh the megadeth section" "DT abused its inspiration corner" and MP went a little crazy about it :D
BTW I was the first one disappointed how heavy it was sounding, rather than proggy like SDOIT and before...But you can't write the same thing over and over I guess !
Or you do ADTOE and people say it's I&W remaster with no inspiration...
It's pretty intense in the community haha.
Honestly, DOT was a grower for me, but as I wrote, barstool and AWE are wonderful, from composition to writing and voice melodies, plus emotion. Pure prog.
Songs like paralysed or invisible monster, even with great guitar solos, feel like a filler song I will not listen again.
My only regrets about DOT are 1) song order, I would have made it totally differently 2) Where the fock is the other half of pale blue dot ? it was nearly dance of eternity level :D
-
(someone can correct me if I am wrong here about the time sig being new for the band).
There’s a part of Home in 19/16 I think.
-
(someone can correct me if I am wrong here about the time sig being new for the band).
There’s a part of Home in 19/16 I think.
That's true.
-
Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem? That is quite a take.
I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts :lol The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.
Well, most of his DT posts seem like he adopted the "old DT great, new DT not-so-great" stance, and then it is forming his opinions to reinforce that belief. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but his are often just bizarre.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
While those two are indeed phenomenal tracks, sone others are also excellent and far better than “stock DT tunes”. S2N is a ripping song - I love the drum work, the experimentation and sense of fun in that tune. I think Out of Reach is one of the best ballads they have ever done, Pale Blue Dot rocks and Fall into the Light is a terrific track with heaviness, melody and emotion. I actually really enjoy Paralyzed too. It’s a simple metal song executed well. Really solid album and still gets regular play from me…
S2N is a promising track, but I find the chorus is really stock, typical-sounding Mangini-era chorus, and imo doesn't fit the feel of the rest of the song (and the song has a completely unnecessary outro that is all too similar to The Dark Eternal Night's outro (which DID fit the song)
I feel almost the polar opposite. I love the chorus, it’s concise, fits everything well, love the drum work and think it’s a super outro which ends in a great crescendo which works way better the The Dark Eternal Night, because it doesn’t carry on for an eon…
As for the DoT songs sounding derivative, I can’t think of any other songs S2N sounds like. Sure if you wanna look for it you could mention the outro here or a riff there, but to me, it sounds fresh, fun and I love it, so fortunately for me, I’ll just carry on and keep listening to it…
-
Wait, Octavarium, which is filled with songs that are derivative of songs by other bands, is greatness, but DT having songs that are derivative of their own is a problem? That is quite a take.
I have thought this time and time again after reading Darkshade's posts :lol The guy has some of the most perplexing opinions and assumptions about DT on this forum.
Well, most of his DT posts seem like he adopted the "old DT great, new DT not-so-great" stance, and then it is forming his opinions to reinforce that belief. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but his are often just bizarre.
It's not "old DT great, new DT not so great" it's that I find the recent output to be repetitive and derivative of itself. The Mangini albums all have a similar thread throughout them. I can barely tell one album apart from another. Despite that, I still find diamonds in the rough throughout the last 4 albums. Octavarium may have had its influences on its sleeves for a few songs, but it was still something different for the band overall, and it wasn't THAT derivative of other bands, outside of 3 songs (TW, IWBY, and NE) and those are probably the least best songs on the album, too.
-
What can I say? It doesn't sound derivative on AWE. MAYBE a tiny bit of ITPOE in the beginning.. but I find it all works.
The difference with Octavarium is they still hadn't entered the current phase they're in, of "guys, we have to keep reminding everyone we're a metal band" on nearly every song, which began on Systematic Chaos. 8vm's greatness is also attributed to the meta-album concept, the 5/8 concept, and the title track is the band's greatest musical achievement.
Not sure how Octavarium's songs are role players, other than the title track at the end. TROAE works well as an opener, with its build-up intro and all. The other songs follow the concept of changing keys each song.
Meh. Meta album, key changes etc, etc. At the end of the day, all of that leaves us with the very pedestrian Root of all evil, the Answer lies within, These Walls, I Walk beside you and a couple of very Muse sounding tracks, with the lyrics to Never Enough wanting to make me uppercut myself. Hard.
Sure, there’s a couple of nice sounds amongst them, but they are absolutely role players. Regardless of the key they are played in, to me, they just have far better sounding songs from the MM era than any of these. For all the stick The Astonishing cops, I could pick 6 tracks from that album that I would take any day over the first 6 tracks from 8V. The title track is nice, I genuinely like it, but a bit overrated in my book. I would go nowhere near calling it the bands greatest musical achievement. Ah well, it is what it is…
-
Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.
-
Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.
The Astonishing would like a word with you…
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style. Get over it."
-
Well, I don't think Octavarium is their best album or anything, the point was back then the band were willing to try new things, and didn't always feel the need to play everything as complex as possible. If we're using the word "pedestrian" to describe DT's music, then I would label most post-MP output as such. "Safe" is another word I would use as well, and perhaps more accurate. You can make a song in 51/36 with 1000 key changes and a million notes a second, and it will sound safe coming from DT if they don't do something more original with it, being they have an entire catalog of songs with complex stuff going on, and considering they seem to fall back on a pop structure of ABABCAB in most of their 2010s output.
The Astonishing would like a word with you…
Touche!
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style. Get over it."
Not when they're repeating themselves album to album since 2011. Their signature style left when MP left, as his drumming was half their sound.
Now they're just recreating IaW's melodicism with SC's balls and chunk with varying results, with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance. I find Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End to be superior pieces of music in the modern era, precisely because it's the band doing what it does best, crafting the best song they can with the musical knowledge they have, with little regard for what genre they're playing in, or what previous DT album they're trying to emulate or romanticize.
and The Astonishing might be something different for the band conceptually, but the execution was not successful to me, it was far too bloated, and musically isn't far off from the albums surrounding it. TA is incredibly safe musically. If they wanted to do something outside the box, they could have written a song within the NOMACs atmosphere, for example, maybe added some electronic type sounds like they teased on ADTOE.
-
BSW and AWE are the only two classic DT songs on DoT.
The rest are pretty stock DT tunes.
what do you mean by 'stock' exactly?
Sounds derivative of other things DT has recorded in the past.
As Mike Portnoy said in a recent interview, "It's called having a signature style. Get over it."
Not when they're repeating themselves album to album since 2011. Their signature style left when MP left, as his drumming was half their sound.
Now they're just recreating IaW's melodicism with SC's balls and chunk with varying results, with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance. I find Barstool Warrior and At Wit's End to be superior pieces of music in the modern era, precisely because it's the band doing what it does best, crafting the best song they can with the musical knowledge they have, with little regard for what genre they're playing in, or what previous DT album they're trying to emulate or romanticize.
and The Astonishing might be something different for the band conceptually, but the execution was not successful to me, it was far too bloated, and musically isn't far off from the albums surrounding it. TA is incredibly safe musically. If they wanted to do something outside the box, they could have written a song within the NOMACs atmosphere, for example, maybe added some electronic type sounds like they teased on ADTOE.
I'll tell you what, you go write a 90 second sound clip of what you would consider "outside the box", post it to YouTube and I will give it a listen and get back to you on whether you hit the mark or not.
-
...with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance.
Aside from being factually incorrect, that is incredibly insulting. Given your repeat warnings for bashing band members, consider this your final.
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
-
Songs like paralysed or invisible monster, even with great guitar solos, feel like a filler song I will not listen again.
I agree with your take that songs like Paralyzed and IM are forgettable.
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
Something tells me that it really will - based on the snippets
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made. Just a few really. Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.
-
Can you think of any bands that were able to maintain a high level 30 years in? I can only think of classical composers, many of whom produced their greatest works at the end of their careers. In pop/rock it almost NEVER happens... For whatever reason (likely something to do with the commercial aspect of the music industry)
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made. Just a few really. Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.
Oh, I totally agree. I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him. Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...
-
Totally get that. hat's what happens when you get old. Right?! :lol I'm 53. Always reminiscing.
-
Always reminiscing.
Is this the Little River Band Form?
LRBF?
-
Totally get that. hat's what happens when you get old. Right?! :lol I'm 53. Always reminiscing.
Yep, same here - 52 in November lol
-
Always reminiscing.
Is this the Little River Band Form?
LRBF?
Ear worm. LOL
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made. Just a few really. Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.
Oh, I totally agree. I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him. Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...
This board reminds me of the Rush message board. For years fans yearned for the years of 2112 perpetually waiting for the release of 3113 which came in the form of Clockwork Angels. Personally, I just want enjoy the music and the band and DT does that for me more than most bands. I would never want to judge a a piece of any music based on what I WISH it could be - what a waste.
So give up the romance of "the glory years" as there is never such a thing because my glory years are with each album they make because they ain't going to be around forever - like I thought Rush would be.... :(
-
I don't understand the notion that all the MM-era albums are allegedly similar. DT12 was not like ADTOE at all. Do I even need to talk about the Astonishing? I don't like that album at all--to put it lightly-- but the last thing I'd say is that it's derivative of prior DT material or uninspired. DoT was completely different from the Astonishing and ADTOE. Even if you compare DoT to DT12, there are differences in addition to the similarities. DT12 has more of the variety between songs relatively speaking. The way the band described it was 'cinematic' and I agree with that when I listen to the Bigger Picture, False Awakening, IT. The orchestra section in IT literally sounds like it could be part of a movie score. DoT is NOT cinematic, maybe with the exception of PBD. It sounds like that at the end of the day, on Oct 22, we may be saying that DT15 and DoT are the two most similar albums of the MM-era. But to say that the last 4 DT albums are all the same? That sounds totally wild to me. The main difference in my opinion between these albums and the last 3 of the MP era, is that the latter had very obvious attempts to borrow sounds from other bands (Muse comes to mind right away).
-
I'm going to agree with darkshade that up until Octavarium, you never knew what kind of DT album you would get next - they were all substantially different from one another. For me, it kept the excitement up for the new release. Since then, with the exception of The Astonishing (I'm disagreeing with darkshade on TA), nothing has really surprised me at all. I like all of their releases, and think DOT was the best of the "Mangini era" - but nothing has really "surprised" me (except the Astonishing) at all. I distinctly remember being surprised by the direction of 6DOIT, TOT, 8VM etc.. Hoping this new album can somehow recapture that "magic".
Name a band 30 plus years into their career where there music was different every album they made. Just a few really. Most bands 30 years in don't make albums these days.
Oh, I totally agree. I was just saying I know where darkshade is coming from and I agree with him. Some of us are just longing for the "glory years" again (as unrealistic as that is)...
This board reminds me of the Rush message board. For years fans yearned for the years of 2112 perpetually waiting for the release of 3113 which came in the form of Clockwork Angels. Personally, I just want enjoy the music and the band and DT does that for me more than most bands. I would never want to judge a a piece of any music based on what I WISH it could be - what a waste.
So give up the romance of "the glory years" as there is never such a thing because my glory years are with each album they make because they ain't going to be around forever - like I thought Rush would be.... :(
Great post. :tup
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
1992-2002
Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT). That is the consensus. :)
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
1992-2002
Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT). That is the consensus. :)
But that period contains Falling Into Infinity, which is generally considered their worst album. And Awake sounds nothing like I&W and had more mixed reactions. There are also plenty of people who were blown away by I&W and lost interest in the band after they released Awake. You have 3 very strong albums that nearly everyone would agree on (I&W, Scenes and 6DOIT), but that is over a 10 year period. Do 3 albums dispersed over a 10 year period make a glory years period? I tend to think not given the order in which they fell, alongside albums that are considered less strong. It's a far less obvious thing I think compared other bands. I used the Metallica example, where nearly everyone who's been a fan for a while loves those early albums. Maiden very obviously had their glory years from Number to Powerslave (maybe to Seventh Son but then again that includes a weaker album in there). As another example you could say In Flames had Jester until Colony. It's a more obvious case when the band sticks to one sound for a period and then suddenly changes it.
Consider this forum. The opinions here about DT albums are so wildly different. I am not sure you could pin down a consensus on any glory year period.
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
1992-2002
Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT). That is the consensus. :)
But that period contains Falling Into Infinity, which is generally considered their worst album. And Awake sounds nothing like I&W and had more mixed reactions. There are also plenty of people who were blown away by I&W and lost interest in the band after they released Awake. You have 3 very strong albums that nearly everyone would agree on (I&W, Scenes and 6DOIT), but that is over a 10 year period. Do 3 albums dispersed over a 10 year period make a glory years period? I tend to think not given the order in which they fell, alongside albums that are considered less strong. It's a far less obvious thing I think compared other bands. I used the Metallica example, where nearly everyone who's been a fan for a while loves those early albums. Maiden very obviously had their glory years from Number to Powerslave (maybe to Seventh Son but then again that includes a weaker album in there). As another example you could say In Flames had Jester until Colony. It's a more obvious case when the band sticks to one sound for a period and then suddenly changes it.
Consider this forum. The opinions here about DT albums are so wildly different. I am not sure you could pin down a consensus on any glory year period that doesn't contain albums a lot of people consider weak or just decent.
This forum is a tiny percentage of the actual fanbase.
Awake lost them some casual mainstream fans since there was no Pull Me Under, but the album has held up as one of their 3-4 most popular albums with the fanbase (again, go to most sites where you can rank albums and you will see this). And the band knows this, which is why it was heavily featured on the Along for the Ride tour in 2014. The only albums to date that have gotten the anniversary treatment over the course of a whole tour are I&W, Awake and Scenes.
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
1992-2002
Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT). That is the consensus. :)
But that period contains Falling Into Infinity, which is generally considered their worst album. And Awake sounds nothing like I&W and had more mixed reactions. There are also plenty of people who were blown away by I&W and lost interest in the band after they released Awake. You have 3 very strong albums that nearly everyone would agree on (I&W, Scenes and 6DOIT), but that is over a 10 year period. Do 3 albums dispersed over a 10 year period make a glory years period? I tend to think not given the order in which they fell, alongside albums that are considered less strong. It's a far less obvious thing I think compared other bands. I used the Metallica example, where nearly everyone who's been a fan for a while loves those early albums. Maiden very obviously had their glory years from Number to Powerslave (maybe to Seventh Son but then again that includes a weaker album in there). As another example you could say In Flames had Jester until Colony. It's a more obvious case when the band sticks to one sound for a period and then suddenly changes it.
Consider this forum. The opinions here about DT albums are so wildly different. I am not sure you could pin down a consensus on any glory year period that doesn't contain albums a lot of people consider weak or just decent.
This forum is a tiny percentage of the actual fanbase.
Awake lost them some casual mainstream fans since there was no Pull Me Under, but the album has held up as one of their 3-4 most popular albums with the fanbase (again, go to most sites where you can rank albums and you will see this). And the band knows this, which is why it was heavily featured on the Along for the Ride tour in 2014. The only albums to date that have gotten the anniversary treatment over the course of a whole tour are I&W, Awake and Scenes.
Aren't those the only albums old enough to actually receive anniversary treatment (not including an unpopular album in FII)?
-
The worst part about this tour being postponed is that now we're going to miss out on The Astonishing's 5th year anniversary suite.
-
...with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance.
Aside from being factually incorrect, that is incredibly insulting. Given your repeat warnings for bashing band members, consider this your final.
I didn't mean "yes-man" as an insult, but more that MM was hired as, well, a hired gun. This seems contrary to the conditions for when Rudess was hired, where it seems he had a dominant role in the writing process almost immediately when he joined DT.
I recall discussion somewhere on DTF recently about how (fan speculation? I don't know..) Mangini was chosen as the new DT drummer because he is someone who wouldn't rock the boat, and that the band wanted someone who would stay in their lane, so to speak, and picked someone who would emulate Portnoy's style as much as possible, without the alpha personality and boastfulness, as opposed to picking someone like Marco Minneman or Virgil Donati, who would have potentially challenged the band members to do something more expansive, help them continue evolving their sound, instead of sticking to their guns and playing things safe to appease the hardcore base, which is how modern DT sounds to me. Again, I didn't mean to insult anyone in the band. I can't completely blame the other 4 guys for taking the direction they took from a business standpoint, but it doesn't mean I have to like it unconditionally.
-
...with a yes-man drummer who's more concerned with technique over substance.
Aside from being factually incorrect, that is incredibly insulting. Given your repeat warnings for bashing band members, consider this your final.
I didn't mean "yes-man" as an insult, but more that MM was hired as, well, a hired gun. This seems contrary to the conditions for when Rudess was hired, where it seems he had a dominant role in the writing process almost immediately when he joined DT.
I recall discussion somewhere on DTF recently about how (fan speculation? I don't know..) Mangini was chosen as the new DT drummer because he is someone who wouldn't rock the boat, and that the band wanted someone who would stay in their lane, so to speak, and picked someone who would emulate Portnoy's style as much as possible, without the alpha personality and boastfulness, as opposed to picking someone like Marco Minneman or Virgil Donati, who would have potentially challenged the band members to do something more expansive, help them continue evolving their sound, instead of sticking to their guns and playing things safe to appease the hardcore base, which is how modern DT sounds to me. Again, I didn't mean to insult anyone in the band. I can't completely blame the other 4 guys for taking the direction they took from a business standpoint, but it doesn't mean I have to like it unconditionally.
No one is saying you have to like anything unconditionally. But you rarely have a single positive word to ever say about MM. Personally, I know little about drumming, but it's not hard to hear and see that some of his drumming work is stellar. To be a fan of the band, but be so negative towards his drumming as well as everything they have done since he has been there, to me at least, suggests it's more about him replacing Portnoy for you (which you have yourself hinted at in other posts). If you genuinely don't like albums, fine, but to give some earlier MP albums a pass on certain attributes that you won't let by on some of the newer stuff just seems like cherry picking. Not to mention a shame, as there are some quality tracks and musicianship in there, but to each his own.
As for the "yes man" stuff - you have yourself sited it as potentially being fan speculation, so not sure the band needs to be excused from any "business standpoint" that we don't even know is factual...
-
But you rarely have a single positive word to ever say about MM.
Whereas you and several other frequent fliers always have something positive to say about MP, right? :lol
But I think we all forget they're just drummers anyway... two a penny :corn :biggrin:
-
But you rarely have a single positive word to ever say about MM.
Whereas you and several other frequent fliers always have something positive to say about MP, right? :lol
But I think we all forget they're just drummers anyway... two a penny :corn :biggrin:
I actually very much liked MP, definitely thought he was a bit of a control freak, which he admitted himself, but always enjoyed all the extra little bits he always offered to the fans. I prefer MM as a drummer, but they are both extremely talented, and generally always state that while the period from TOT-BCASL was my least fave, there are also some amazing bits of music on those albums that I will always love. Saw them live twice (they’ve only been to my part of the world twice) with MP at the kit and loved it. Not to mention my very fave DT albums have MP drumming. But whatever mate…
-
But you rarely have a single positive word to ever say about MM.
Whereas you and several other frequent fliers always have something positive to say about MP, right? :lol
But I think we all forget they're just drummers anyway... two a penny :corn :biggrin:
I have not been here very long but thus far I have only seen people say negative things about MM. No one has said anything negative about MP which MP himself has not already said about himself.
-
Is there even any generally agreed upon glory years for DT?
It's not like Metallica, whose most tenured fans tend to think the glory years were everything until (and including) Justice. DT albums have been pretty varied over the years both stylistically and in terms of reception.
1992-2002
Go to just about any site with rankings and their top four most popular albums will be from that era (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT). That is the consensus. :)
But that period contains Falling Into Infinity, which is generally considered their worst album. And Awake sounds nothing like I&W and had more mixed reactions. There are also plenty of people who were blown away by I&W and lost interest in the band after they released Awake. You have 3 very strong albums that nearly everyone would agree on (I&W, Scenes and 6DOIT), but that is over a 10 year period. Do 3 albums dispersed over a 10 year period make a glory years period? I tend to think not given the order in which they fell, alongside albums that are considered less strong. It's a far less obvious thing I think compared other bands. I used the Metallica example, where nearly everyone who's been a fan for a while loves those early albums. Maiden very obviously had their glory years from Number to Powerslave (maybe to Seventh Son but then again that includes a weaker album in there). As another example you could say In Flames had Jester until Colony. It's a more obvious case when the band sticks to one sound for a period and then suddenly changes it.
Consider this forum. The opinions here about DT albums are so wildly different. I am not sure you could pin down a consensus on any glory year period that doesn't contain albums a lot of people consider weak or just decent.
This forum is a tiny percentage of the actual fanbase.
Awake lost them some casual mainstream fans since there was no Pull Me Under, but the album has held up as one of their 3-4 most popular albums with the fanbase (again, go to most sites where you can rank albums and you will see this). And the band knows this, which is why it was heavily featured on the Along for the Ride tour in 2014. The only albums to date that have gotten the anniversary treatment over the course of a whole tour are I&W, Awake and Scenes.
Aren't those the only albums old enough to actually receive anniversary treatment (not including an unpopular album in FII)?
Not necessarily.
And while Falling into Infinity was considered a letdown by some at the time, it has aged well for many, so it calling it "unpopular" is hyperbole, and just looking at one site now (below), it is rated higher than four of their six most recent albums (and the two that are ahead of it, are barely ahead of it.
https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/dream_theater
Also, feel free to notice what four studio albums there are rated the highest. :tup :tup
But hey, if you don't like that site, try this one:
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=378
Look at that, the same four studio albums are the highest rated. :P (not counting the new one, which has two votes so far :lol).
Now, if someone wants to argue that the glory years of LIVE Dream Theater was 2000-2006, I won't argue that. They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
-
I don't understand the notion that all the MM-era albums are allegedly similar.
Me neither.
-
Kev is spot on about his "glory years" comments. From what I have seen, I would say the consensus is stronger for 1992-1999. But I don't really have a problem with anyone taking it out to 2002. I&W, Awake, and SFAM are universally acclaimed as DT's "classic" albums among fans, and anyone who wouldn't agree is an definitely outlier. It doesn't matter than FII is ranked lower by many fans. Even if that album breaks the streak, there is no requirement that a band's "glory years" or "classic period" not have a dud or an album that raised eyebrows somewhere in the middle.
-
:metal
-
Glory years are pre TOT. After that the balance of prog/metal started to get out of whack. Also the type of metal started to emulate modern metal more and not 80’s metal which frankly was a better fit for the band and for Labrie especially.
With that said…. Although I found those albums jarring and disappointing at the time. I still listen to all of them. Dream Theater is the Tarantino of music. Whether it’s your cup of tea or not you can almost guarantee you are going to get a blood, sweat, and tears effort from the band.
I actually don’t think they have a single “dud” in their catalogue.
WDADU is a debut album where they are finding themselves but has awesome inspired stuff
FII has some dud songs but also gave us Trial of Tears, lines in the sand, Peruvian skies, and has amazing production. Raising the knife also.
SC is the closest thing to a dud for me as I don’t think any of the songs are that good. However I still listen to it from time to time.
Anyways, glory years without a doubt are 92-2002 and their top 4 in no order are definitely sfam, I&w. Awake and six degrees. Not everyone has that opinion but that is the concensus.
-
Just listening to Distance Over Time for the first time in a while. You know, the acoustic breakdown in Fall Into the Light might be my favourite specific part of any Dream Theater song for many a year. Possibly even since the unison runs in the solo section of Never Enough.
-
I love that part so much…. My only complaint is that it’s a little bit derivative of Metallica but I don’t mind because it’s brilliantly executed and something different from Dream Theater.
I’m really a fan of that whole album… the only song I skip is Room 137. Doesn’t do much for me but I like everything else.
-
I love that part so much…. My only complaint is that it’s a little bit derivative of Metallica but I don’t mind because it’s brilliantly executed and something different from Dream Theater.
Completely agree. It's more Metallica than Metallica. Still very good, though.
Have to say, I'm enjoying this listen more than I expected to. My partner's physically gone to work today so I am playing it loud (my rip of the stereo blu ray audio) and on very good speakers. Sonically, it's not bad at all.
Nearing the end of At Wit's End now. Excellent tune, just wish the live floor section had been merged with the fade out.
-
Almost every favorite album poll I've seen for the past decade plus has had I&w, sfam, awake and sdoit as the top 4. Images and sfam are always top 2, nearly tied and the other two are 3 and 4,similarly. The consistency is kinda cool, and I agree with the ranking generally.
One thing I'll note is that while fii used to be a bottom feeder I think it's likely aged very well and is far from a least favorite for many fans just given how good it sounds. Plus hells kitchen, trial of tears and lines in the sand are all 3 better than most recent stuff.
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
hmmm. I guess I would be amongst the few who disagree then :lol
I don't think of the band as having a glory years at all given how inconsistent the output has been even during the alleged consensus period. I also dispute the notion that there was something magical in their mojo, technical or compositional ability during that period which we haven't seen since. Quite the contrary on the technical part which has gotten better and better over the years.
I will say this though: when DT is finished, I may look back on the MM era and say those were the glory years if they can put out more albums as strong as ADTOE, DT12, DOT and what I hope to hear in DT15.
-
Kev is spot on about his "glory years" comments. From what I have seen, I would say the consensus is stronger for 1992-1999. But I don't really have a problem with anyone taking it out to 2002. I&W, Awake, and SFAM are universally acclaimed as DT's "classic" albums among fans, and anyone who wouldn't agree is an definitely outlier. It doesn't matter than FII is ranked lower by many fans. Even if that album breaks the streak, there is no requirement that a band's "glory years" or "classic period" not have a dud or an album that raised eyebrows somewhere in the middle.
:tup :tup
-
Kev is spot on about his "glory years" comments. From what I have seen, I would say the consensus is stronger for 1992-1999. But I don't really have a problem with anyone taking it out to 2002. I&W, Awake, and SFAM are universally acclaimed as DT's "classic" albums among fans, and anyone who wouldn't agree is an definitely outlier. It doesn't matter than FII is ranked lower by many fans. Even if that album breaks the streak, there is no requirement that a band's "glory years" or "classic period" not have a dud or an album that raised eyebrows somewhere in the middle.
Even during the FII period, if you think about the lore, the concerts got longer/more experimental and the LTE albums came out.
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
hmmm. I guess I would be amongst the few who disagree then :lol
I don't think of the band as having a glory years at all given how inconsistent the output has been even during the alleged consensus period. I also dispute the notion that there was something magical in their mojo, technical or compositional ability during that period which we haven't seen since. Quite the contrary on the technical part which has gotten better and better over the years.
I will say this though: when DT is finished, I may look back on the MM era and say those were the glory years if they can put out more albums as strong as ADTOE, DT12, DOT and what I hope to hear in DT15.
Everybody is welcome to an opinion. There’s just a difference of your opinion and the general consensus. I agree that output is consistently strong but I don’t think they have been quite as good since SDOIT imo. However, I like the last 3 albums more than I like the previous 4.
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
hmmm. I guess I would be amongst the few who disagree then :lol
I don't think of the band as having a glory years at all given how inconsistent the output has been even during the alleged consensus period. I also dispute the notion that there was something magical in their mojo, technical or compositional ability during that period which we haven't seen since. Quite the contrary on the technical part which has gotten better and better over the years.
I will say this though: when DT is finished, I may look back on the MM era and say those were the glory years if they can put out more albums as strong as ADTOE, DT12, DOT and what I hope to hear in DT15.
Everybody is welcome to an opinion. There’s just a difference of your opinion and the general consensus. I agree that output is consistently strong but I don’t think they have been quite as good since SDOIT imo. However, I like the last 3 albums more than I like the previous 4.
I think the biggest thing is that the term glory years implies a current state of decline unless that's where you happen to be now. I think DT is the best they've ever been now, so maybe that's my aversion to going along with that label. When I listen to DoT, DT12 and ADTOE, I hear a band that is technically the best they've been, better and more concise songwriters, better lyricists, and just generally more mature musicians.
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
hmmm. I guess I would be amongst the few who disagree then :lol
I don't think of the band as having a glory years at all given how inconsistent the output has been even during the alleged consensus period. I also dispute the notion that there was something magical in their mojo, technical or compositional ability during that period which we haven't seen since. Quite the contrary on the technical part which has gotten better and better over the years.
I will say this though: when DT is finished, I may look back on the MM era and say those were the glory years if they can put out more albums as strong as ADTOE, DT12, DOT and what I hope to hear in DT15.
Everybody is welcome to an opinion. There’s just a difference of your opinion and the general consensus. I agree that output is consistently strong but I don’t think they have been quite as good since SDOIT imo. However, I like the last 3 albums more than I like the previous 4.
I think the biggest thing is that the term glory years implies a current state of decline unless that's where you happen to be now. I think DT is the best they've ever been now, so maybe that's my aversion to going along with that label. When I listen to DoT, DT12 and ADTOE, I hear a band that is technically the best they've been, better and more concise songwriters, better lyricists, and just generally more mature musicians.
It’s amazing to me that someone can think the songwriting in the MM era is better than the 90’s era but that’s why music is an art and there is no right answer. I think DT is in a good place and I’m extremely excited for the new album because of it. However, to try and compare the last 3 albums to I&W and SFAM from a freshness and songwriting standpoint is an easy exercise. They don’t compare.
Not to mention Labrie, who is still a fine singer is not nearly as powerful as he once was.
Anyways, i feel like DT lost their way a bit towards the end of the Portnoy era but are back in full stride now. 33 years in and still going strong but I just can’t see any album topping my big 3 anymore (i&w, sfam, Sdoit). Those were young inspired musicians making magic. Now they are mature statesman making solid records. I wouldn’t so much call it a decline… they just aren’t in their prime anymore. Nobody is after 33 years.
-
I love today's DT because their style of playing changed the same way that my taste in music changed. I especially loved D/T because they finally shed off the excess = prog style that I have come to associate with them since Train of Thought (although something that was already rearing its head back in SFAM). They tried that with DT12 but D/T was them getting it right for me. The run of songs from Fall Into The Light to At Wit's End is gold, must have listened to that run more than three hundred times already.
-
Dream Theater has many album sequences that you could call their big three. To me they have matured as musicians and are playing better than ever before. I listen to their more recent stuff way more than I do their earlier albums. As far as JLB goes, he may not have the power or range like he used to but he's the only one in the band that has a organic instrument that changes with age. He does pretty darn good at this age so he deserves a lot of credit for still going strong.
I mean c'mon, DT are still considered the undisputed heavyweight champions of prog/metal this day. I have a feeling that their new album will solidify that title. :coolio
-
They were mostly crushing it live in that time span, so I can get on board with that, but when it comes to their studio output, 1992-2002, regardless of what you or me or anyone else thinks of this album or that album, is pretty much the consensus for being their glory years.
Very few would disagree with that with respect to the fanbase as a whole. Although my personal favourite sequence is from Scenes to Octavarium. But then I confess I came onboard between Six Degrees and Train of Thought, so that probably explains that :tup
hmmm. I guess I would be amongst the few who disagree then :lol
I don't think of the band as having a glory years at all given how inconsistent the output has been even during the alleged consensus period. I also dispute the notion that there was something magical in their mojo, technical or compositional ability during that period which we haven't seen since. Quite the contrary on the technical part which has gotten better and better over the years.
I will say this though: when DT is finished, I may look back on the MM era and say those were the glory years if they can put out more albums as strong as ADTOE, DT12, DOT and what I hope to hear in DT15.
Everybody is welcome to an opinion. There’s just a difference of your opinion and the general consensus. I agree that output is consistently strong but I don’t think they have been quite as good since SDOIT imo. However, I like the last 3 albums more than I like the previous 4.
I think the biggest thing is that the term glory years implies a current state of decline unless that's where you happen to be now. I think DT is the best they've ever been now, so maybe that's my aversion to going along with that label. When I listen to DoT, DT12 and ADTOE, I hear a band that is technically the best they've been, better and more concise songwriters, better lyricists, and just generally more mature musicians.
It’s amazing to me that someone can think the songwriting in the MM era is better than the 90’s era but that’s why music is an art and there is no right answer. I think DT is in a good place and I’m extremely excited for the new album because of it. However, to try and compare the last 3 albums to I&W and SFAM from a freshness and songwriting standpoint is an easy exercise. They don’t compare.
Not to mention Labrie, who is still a fine singer is not nearly as powerful as he once was.
Anyways, i feel like DT lost their way a bit towards the end of the Portnoy era but are back in full stride now. 33 years in and still going strong but I just can’t see any album topping my big 3 anymore (i&w, sfam, Sdoit). Those were young inspired musicians making magic. Now they are mature statesman making solid records. I wouldn’t so much call it a decline… they just aren’t in their prime anymore. Nobody is after 33 years.
I should have mentioned that my top DT is I&W and a ACOS, so to that extent nothing has ever topped those very early years in terms of songwriting (though the band is technically superior now). I think SFAM was written well also, but I don't think many of those songs work well as stand alone pieces so I never end up listening to it except during live shows.
-
I finally could grab my fingers round (and fund) the limited boxset of Distance Over Time. It's my second boxset (next to A View) and I really love it. Loved the album since the get-go - although it took a while before I digested it - but this is (besides the base of vinyl and iTunes, which both I have from every album) a wonderful way to shine on my bookshelf in the living room. Love the 3d pic on the cover.