DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!

[red barchetta]

Pretty excited I&W is going to get the full album performance treatment. I agree with those that believe the band should tune down, even if just a half step, to make it easier for JLB to sing. The man is still a phenomenal singer, but unless you're a guy like Corey Glover or Glenn Hughes, who seem to get more range with age (how the hell does THAT happen), it's not fair to put JLB under that microscope each night. That's a tough record to sing, even in a tenor's prime.

Not sure if this tour is going beyond Europe, but if it comes stateside, it'd be a real treat.

Been a while since I have been on here. *waves at old timers*

It would be cleaver to tune down some songs.  Or the front row people would have to catch JLB lungs.

[nattmorker]

Am I the only one who actually likes Raw Dog? I mean, it's not their best instrumental, but it surely has really cool parts in it. I would like to see them play it at least once 

No, you're not alone.. There are a lot of us who likes it.. And yeah, they should totally play it live, but if they're going to play one instrumental, I'd rather prefer it's Stream of Consciousness or Hell's Kitchen...

I really like Raw Dog, it's not my favorite instrumental, but i like it.

[KevShmev]

The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

It's gonna be You Not Me; just fess up now.

[Adami]

My money's on a cover of Semisonic's Closing Time.

[TAC]

The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

People are assuming that ACOS would be the encore. Well....

[Prog Snob]

I love Raw Dog. Love It.

I bet you would pay big money to see Winger do a cover of it.

[sfam2112]

The opening song is not one I would have picked in a million years as an "opener."  But that's all I'll say about that.

People are assuming that ACOS would be the encore. Well....

But they've opened with that before ...ok, just the first two sections, but still. 
Maybe it's Octavarium. Something I wouldn't have picked or expected as an opener.

[Prog Snob]

We could probably narrow it down to a handful of songs and make some educated guesses.

[El Barto]

So how did we get from a tweet about transcribing monster songs to this near certainty that they're playing ACoS?

[Schurftkut]

because it's long overdue and a big fan favorite?

[TheAtliator]

The monster song from that one tweet easily could have just been Take The Time or something. That being said, I really hope either A Change of Seasons or even better, Octavarium are in the list, and Mr. Bosk's posts make me think that is totally possible!

Certainly there will be a few very special things in this set...

[Prog Snob]

So how did we get from a tweet about transcribing monster songs to this near certainty that they're playing ACoS?

I don't want to think it's near certainty because then I'll be exceedingly disappointed when it's not played.

Oh, and in reference to Bosk's song that he's surprised they're opening up with, maybe it's Pull Me Under. It starts off Images and Words and even though it has been an opening song before, it's more known as a closing/encore track.

[MirrorMask]

Gut feeling tells me that I&W will be the second set. Not gonna be displeased either way however.

[Schurftkut]

my hope for ACOS is great!! adding octavarium would just be a bonus..

[HolidaysAnoraks]

Just a hunch here, but I'm wondering if they may play a deep cut from WDADU   and / or the I&W demos. Something like The Killing Hand, The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun, or even Don't Look Past Me. If that's the case, perhaps the opener is one of these older, seldom played tracks.

Bosk mentioned that they would be sticking to a certain extent with songs that Mangini has played before because of rehearsal time, and he has played To Live Forever (granted, only once or twice). Just an idea. I've had terrible luck predicting DT setlists in the past, so...

[MirrorMask]

I'd kill for Don't Look Past Me, but I'm afraid that JR and MM do not even know the song exists, and the other three have forgotten about it. I hope for it but I don't count on it at all.

[bosk1]

Yes, but an important question to ask is, WHO would you kill for it?

[gzarruk]

I'd kill for Don't Look Past Me, but I'm afraid that JR and MM do not even know the song exists, and the other three have forgotten about it. I hope for it but I don't count on it at all.

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Actually, they could start going through their old setlists from the IAW tour and check which songs they were playing back then. They even played Only a Matter of Time with the March of the Tyrant outro, that was amazing! (there's some videos/audios of it on youtube).

The Killing Hand is a good bet too, but I wouldn't expect more than 1 song from WDADU.

[Dream Team]

Can't decide, would I&W make more sense as the second set after James is fully warmed up, or first set while he's fresh 

I'm calling it, they're opening with ACOS and closing with OV.

[ToT-147]

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..

And, to be fair, ACoS was finished/recorded in 1995 with Derek, so it shouldn't be counted in that group of songs either..

[hefdaddy42]

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..

Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.

[King Postwhore]

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..

Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.

And some of us can confirm since we saw it live on the I&W tour.

[bosk1]

Well, if they're celebrating not just IAW, but that whole era, that includes DLPM, ACOS, TLF and Eve (surprisingly not mentioned here) as well.

Eve is from Awake era, not I&W..

Eve wasn't recorded until the recording sessions for Awake.  But it very much dates to the I&W period, and was performed on the I&W touring cycles.

Correct.  And as far as ACOS, the band originally intended for the original version to be included on I&W. 

[gzarruk]

Yep, they played Eve a lot with Kevin before they recorded it on the Awake sessions. Also, ACOS had an earlier version that was intended to appear on IAW, just lile Bosk said, but had to cut it, they also performed it live a few times.

There's footage from both songs being played on the IAW tour on Youtube 

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again 

[JediKnight1969]

1st set - I&W full

2nd set:

-You not me
-Burning my soul
-Hell´s kitchen
-Lines in the sand
-Take away my pain
-Just let me breathe
-Anna Lee
-A change of seasons

Encore:

-The glass prison

[ToT-147]

I knew all that.. Was just pointing out that the only two actual songs to be consider as part of I&W, besides the eight tracks that made it to the album, are DLPM and TLF.. I mean, only these would be the songs, because they're celebrating 25 years of "Images and Words - the album", and not "the Images and Words era" (which is way more extended, thus it wouldn't be much sense to even think of an aniversary of that -a long and pretty much undeterminated period-)..

And while it is true that ACoS original version dates from several years before 1995, that's the year they finally recorded it, and it'd be more logical if they celebrate its anniversary according that date (I don't remember JLB mentioning ACoS 20 years last year when they played Innocence, but that was probably because they played the song right after CiaW, and then righ away they linked it to BMS..) And the same goes to Eve: they included it in The Silent Man's single, so that's its year of release.. To think of it as part of I&W it'd be the same as to think of Metropolis pt 2 (the song) as part of FII... while it was composed and meant to be included in FII, it didn't finally take part on it, and instead was developed in another album..

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again 

I'd say that had to do with Portnoy restriction of "we don't play any KM song"... and Eve was one of them, along with WFS and SDVest.. As to why they don't play it now that MP's not in the band, probably because: they have a lot of songs to choose to play live, it's a bonus track after all, ... or they just don't like it..

[bosk1]

I knew all that.. Was just pointing out that the only two actual songs to be consider as part of I&W, besides the eight tracks that made it to the album, are DLPM and TLF.. I mean, only these would be the songs, because they're celebrating 25 years of "Images and Words - the album", and not "the Images and Words era" (which is way more extended, thus it wouldn't be much sense to even think of an aniversary of that -a long and pretty much undeterminated period-).

  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

What I don't understand is, they played Eve a lot with both Kevin and Derek, but after Jordan joined, they never ever played it, not even once. It's not like it is a very hard/technical piece, and, even like that, that would be very easy for him. Makes me wonder why they never played it again 

I'd say that had to do with Portnoy restriction of "we don't play any KM song"... and Eve was one of them, along with WFS and SDVest.. As to why they don't play it now that MP's not in the band, probably because: they have a lot of songs to choose to play live, it's a bonus track after all, ... or they just don't like it..

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.

[gzarruk]

What I tried to say is, if they don't like it, why play it lots of times before the lineup change? it's not like Jordan joined and then they suddenly don't like the song. They already had a couple full albums and a few demos/extra songs to play, but chose to play Eve instead. It might be due to Portnoy's excessive control over the sets and stuff, but I still it doesn't make sense 

Anyway, even if they decide to play Eve or not, they should add at least a couple of instrumental songs to the setlist, imo, so they can give James a break during the show. Either that or songs with very long instrumental breaks (Outcry, anyone?) 

If they add instrumentals, I would LOVE to see SOC get some love, it's one of their best

[ToT-147]

  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

I mean they're part of that album in some way, as bonus tracks at least.. ACoS and Eve don't count as that, because they were released years after, in a EP format one, and in a single the other.. They're equal about being from the I&W era, yes, but they're not in terms of what really matters here: DT celebrating 25 years of I&W, the album, not the "era"..

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.

Either way, is pretty much the same, because I was talking only about the songs that KM composed by his own.. Obviously not about the ones that he helped to make.. And even so, yeah, I know they played WFS several times without KM in the band, but Eve and Space Dye Vest demonstrate well that it was Portnoy's decision..

What I tried to say is, if they don't like it, why play it lots of times before the lineup change? it's not like Jordan joined and then they suddenly don't like the song. They already had a couple full albums and a few demos/extra songs to play, but chose to play Eve instead. It might be due to Portnoy's excessive control over the sets and stuff, but I still it doesn't make sense 

I don't find it something that hard to guess or understand.. The track was created by KM, and it's obvious that he liked it, but maybe he was the only to like it, or at least the only guy who claimed to play it live.. Once he leave, they hadn't any reason to play it, except the fact that it was, after all, a DT piece that probably have fans who like it..

[bosk1]

  How are DLPM and TLF "part of I&W?"  They aren't.  They were written during the lead-up to I&W, but so was ACOS, for example.  Those songs are all on equal footing in terms of being from that era. 

I mean they're part of that album in some way, as bonus tracks at least.. ACoS and Eve don't count as that, because they were released years after, in a EP format one, and in a single the other.. They're equal about being from the I&W era, yes, but they're not in terms of what really matters here: DT celebrating 25 years of I&W, the album, not the "era"..

What are you talking about?  They are not and have never been "bonus tracks" from that album.  Not in any way, shape, or form.  They were "lost" tracks that never even got released on official releases at all.  Eve was only released as a B-side.  ACOS was supposed to have been on I&W if it was up to the band.  They were ready to put it on that album and wanted it on that album.  You aren't making sense.

No, you are misstating Portnoy.  He never said "we don't play any KM song."  He said, basically, Space Dye Vest is a "Kevin Moore song, not really a Dream Theater song" because Kevin wrote the entire thing himself and brought it in, and it didn't really match the vibe of what they were doing as a band.  He has never said anything about not playing any songs that KM wrote or contributed to.  They have played a bunch of others through the years.  I think it is likely just what you said at the end of your post in terms of it just being a song they don't like very much, and there are plenty of others to choose from.

Either way, is pretty much the same, because I was talking only about the songs that KM composed by his own.. Obviously not about the ones that he helped to make.. And even so, yeah, I know they played WFS several times without KM in the band, but Eve and Space Dye Vest demonstrate well that it was Portnoy's decision..

It is the same in terms of him likely being one of the most outspoken.  But your argument was that he is somehow against any "KM song," and that clearly is not the case.  He wanted them to play Eve, and they played it.  He didn't want to play SDV, and nobody else really did either, so they didn't play it.  You tried to make it about being anti-KM songs, and it isn't.

[ToT-147]

What are you talking about?  They are not and have never been "bonus tracks" from that album.  Not in any way, shape, or form.  They were "lost" tracks that never even got released on official releases at all.  Eve was only released as a B-side.  ACOS was supposed to have been on I&W if it was up to the band.  They were ready to put it on that album and wanted it on that album.  You aren't making sense.

Ok, they aren't bonus tracks, altough they are different in the way you just said.. But that was never my point; I just mentioned that to separate DLPM and TLF from ACoS and Eve.. My point is that you're all talking about those four songs in the vein "they're celebrating something about I&W, so they should play those songs too, because they're from I&W era".. The problem with these spectation is that, again, the celebration is about I&W, not its "era".. And while it'd make sense if they play, beside the whole album, DLPM or TLF (because they're what Raise the Knife is in FII, and they played this song as representative of that album in Score), it wouldn't make sense if they play Eve or ACoS as part of the "Images, Words and Beyond" setlist, because they already are in different DT releases: a single and an EP respectively.. Get it now?..

It is the same in terms of him likely being one of the most outspoken.  But your argument was that he is somehow against any "KM song," and that clearly is not the case.  He wanted them to play Eve, and they played it.  He didn't want to play SDV, and nobody else really did either, so they didn't play it.  You tried to make it about being anti-KM songs, and it isn't.

No.. That's what you interpreted.. I didn't said he was "against" KM's songs.. I just say what I read somewhere in this very forum more than once... that was his decision stop playing those two songs because they were KM's compositios.. I didn't said (because I couldn't remember; I remember it now though) the reason why he made that decision.. Like the previous matter, I don't really see the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying..

[OpenYourEyes311]

Both To Live Forever and Eve were performed in 1993 on the Images Tour. Then they both were released in 1994 as B-Sides to singles from Awake (TLF on the Lie single, Eve on The Silent Man). To separate them at all is flawed logic. They can be considered as I&W 'era' songs or Awake 'era' songs, but saying that one is I&W and one is Awake is just wrong.

[bosk1]

Yeah, exactly.  But to really get back to the main topic, let me just say that the "Images & Words" part of the set is going to be ONLY Images & Words.  To the extent ANY of those other four songs are going to be played (and I am not saying they are or are not), they would be part of the "and beyond" part of the set. 

[Pragmaticcircus]

Can they play UAGM twice in the set? 

[gzarruk]

Yeah, exactly.  But to really get back to the main topic, let me just say that the "Images & Words" part of the set is going to be ONLY Images & Words.  To the extent ANY of those other four songs are going to be played (and I am not saying they are or are not), they would be part of the "and beyond" part of the set. 

I know the reason of the tour is to celebrate IAW, but looks like the "beyond" part is going to be the most exciting part for all the fans. Really can't wait to see what they come up with, even though I won't have any remote chance of seeing them live 

If we talk about setlists in general, I think they've made GREAT setlists after MP left. The've repeated a couple songs from tour to tour, but still managed to present something interesting and balanced between old and new songs (excluding the TA tour). Their 30th ann. set last year was pretty cool too  I wish they released an audio compilation of tracks from that tour, the same way they did with Happy Holidays in 2013.