DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!

[jsbru]

1. Well that solidifies my guess that it's not on 6DOIT, because everything but TGD has not been played since MM joined, except for scattered parts of 6DOIT (but not the song as a whole).

I guess if I go album to album (using data from setlist.fm)

If it's on Octavarium, it's either PA or TW, because nothing else has been played with MM exceot for TROAE, but they opened with that before.  Each could be described as a "monster" track due to either heaviness or length, and the former is really a crowd pleaser, but TW doesn't really fit in this category.  PA is not really all that remarkable as an opener, and they may have even opened with it before.

Could be Forsaken, CM, or TDEN from SC.  ITPOE hasn't been played by MM.  The rest are not crowd pleasers.  TDEN is the most likely to be considered a "monster" track of the three due to heaviness and lyrics.  I don't know if the other two have ever opened a set before.

On TOT, Endless Sacrifice does sort of check all the boxes, it's been played a lot, it's long enough to be monstrous by length, and at least to my knowledge, has not been used as an opener.  I think it's the next best guess from TDEN.  As I Am has also been played a lot, but it's been used as an opener.  Everything else from this album pre-dates the Mangini days.

They've played everything from Awake too much for me to look up which ones they've opened with before, but I don't think they've ever done so with Scarred, which is on my "good guess" list.  Also, other than tracks 3-5, they've played this whole album in the Mangini era, so it's hard to guess which other one it might be from this album. TSM and SDV are not monster in any way, and LSOAD isn't really either, so you can knock those off, too.  6:00 not unusual for an opener. I previously said it could be CIAW due to Epica having an identically-named song. So it could be tracks 2, 7, 8, and 10 off this album.

ADTOE is just too hard to narrow down, because it's all been played during the Mangini days.  BITS has been used as an opener, and OTBOA is not remarkable as an opener in any way.  But there's two good crowd-pleaser choices from this album in BAI and Outcry.  And Outcry hasn't been played all that recently (2011 was the last time).

SFAM is probably the hardest to guess, since a lot of it has been played since MM has joined the band, and there's too many songs for me to check if they are the opener.

For FII, ToT fits the bill.  So does Peruvian Skies, but that strikes me as a good opener, and they might have even opened with it before (they've played it too many times for me to look it up.  But it also has the "monster" lyric, and we know there's a FII track in the set somewhere.

Best guesses given the above, in order of what I think, are TDEN, Endless Sacrifice, Breaking All Illusions, Scarred, CIAW, Trial of Tears, or something from SFAM that they haven't opened with yet.

Of all of these, the only one I see any significant relationship with to Epica is CIAW due to song name.  It doesn't strike me as an unusual opener, though.
  I guess it doesn't have to do with an individual song name or lyrics.  I think I'd probably take CIAW off then.

IOW, I'm still confused.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Have they opened with The Ytse Jam before?

[bosk1]

Well, back to the Epica clue, it has to do with the fact that I was listening to that particular band after listening to Dream Theater.  It's Epica after Dream Theater that is the clue.  Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.  That clue alone doesn't narrow down the specific song, and doesn't necessarily narrow it down to the specific album, but it does help in significantly narrowing it down to a much smaller set of albums.  And then your other deductive reasoning strands can probably narrow it down from there to a very small set of songs.

[TAC]

Enigma Machine

[bosk1]

:faceplam:

...when the facepalm is so severe that you can't even spell it right.

[CDrice]

To sort of restate the principle behind the clue in your #6:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28146.msg1102967#msg1102967

Kind of out of topic, but thanks for sharing this thread. It's awesome 
It's just unfortunate that it never came to a proper end.

As for the clue, I have no idea other than it could be one of their epic since you can't spell Epica without it.

[TAC]

:faceplam:

...when the facepalm is so severe that you can't even spell it right.

That's called a :kingplam:




Just a shot as Enigma is in one of their album titles.

[IDontNotDoThings]

bosk, do you not have any ELP album? 

[IDontNotDoThings]

Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.

I'm guessing this means that you don't sort songs by song title.

[jsbru]

So then if your songs were all organized in alphabetical order on your playlist (which I think someone mentioned), with the artist name first followed by the song name, and you don't have a ton of bands on there, you might have been listening to Ytse Jam.

Which would definitely give me a double-take as an opener.

All the other stuff at the end of DT's song list alphabetically either doesn't fit, or is on I&W.

I guess it is pretty "monster" in a way.

Even so, it's hard to believe it survived the entire duration of Mike Portnoy's rotating set-lists without ever being used as an opener.  I tend to discount the odds of their earlier stuff meeting that criterion for just this reason.  But perhaps simply opening up without the full band is just the quirk this song needed to survive all that without being the opener.

Then again, as I randomly peruse their setlists, it seems like they opened with Metropolis Pt. 1 basically every show for their first 7 years.  And Ytse Jam basically got close to zero play during the rotating setlist days.

[TAC]

It's Finally Free.

[bosk1]

bosk, do you not have any ELP album? 

Nope.  But I can tell by this question and the next that you definitely get it.

Song names, lyrics, etc. are not relevant.  Only the timing is relevant.

I'm guessing this means that you don't sort songs by song title.

Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions. 

[TAC]

Bosk, what did you listen to after Epica? Nightwish?

[bosk1]

I don't remember.  But I have two Epica albums loaded.  One is a double album, and the other is a triple (Retrospect), so I doubt I got through them all.    But if I did, Fates Warning would have been next.  Then Flotsam. 

[jsbru]

If the alphabetical theme is right and you don't have DT's entire catalog on your playlist, I suppose Trial of Tears and This is the Life could qualify.

TOT is sort of a monster mini-epic.  TITL has the "monster" lyric.  Both are sort of unusual as openers, but TITL hasn't been played all that much (just on the tour that spurned LALP).  It's hard to forget that tour, because that's where the video cuts to that super-hot DT chick singing along. Nevertheless, I wouldn't put it in the fan favorite category, even though I like it a lot.

[bosk1]

  Really?

[IDontNotDoThings]

No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.

[TAC]

  Then Flotsam. 

If the alphabetical theme is right and you don't have DT's entire catalog on your playlist, I suppose Trial of Tears and This is the Life could qualify.

How are you figuring the alphabetical theme?
Dream Theater
Epica
F.....song starts with an F

...or the album starts with an F

[jsbru]

No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.

Yeah, I didn't see that until after I posted my post.

Nevertheless, both of the songs you list here haven't been played by Mangini (unless setlist.fm is wrong), so...

[bosk1]

No, it's alphabetical by albums, so Train Of Thought is last, meaning it's either Stream Of Consciousness or In The Name Of God.

Yeah, if your logic is correct, you kind of have to guess at which albums I have loaded on my work computer.  But if your logic is correct, then even without knowing, you could still narrow it down to a few.

[jsbru]

Well now that opens up a couple of possibilities.  One of which has already been guessed.  Another has not been guessed.  I find this second possibility pretty hilarious, but I also find it hard to believe that Bosk doesn't have that album on his work computer.  But he said it has been guessed, so...

It follows in a narrative sense from the end of TA, but it's not really a great choice for an opener.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Okay, so neither SOC or ITNOG have been played live, the next album back in alphabetical order is Systematic Chaos, but neither TMOLS or ITPOE have been played live by Mangini either.

Then there's SDOIT, which is greater than 25 minutes.

Then there's Octavarium, in which neither SS or the title track have been played live by Mangini.

EDIT: Actually, Octavarium HAS been played live with Mangini, so this could actually still be a possibility!

Then Metropolis II, which means it could be TDOE, OLT, TSCO or FF, & being one of DT's most highly regarded albums, I find it hard to believe that bosk wouldn't have this on his computer.

One Last Time hasn't been played live with Mangini, but the other three have, & all three could be considered crowd-pleasers. TSCO may have been opened with, but I'm not sure, & it's also the only one of the three that maybe isn't a "monster track".

That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before

My bets on TDOE.

That could also be why bosk said he was "listening to it now" when we were discussing possibilities, because he was listening to an argument that was bound to go on forever.  (Edit: this pun could also be applied to Octavarium too)

also ninja'd 

[Jinx]

I reckon its Panic Attack then by what has been said so far

[IDontNotDoThings]

I reckon its Panic Attack then by what has been said so far

What makes you say that?

[Jinx]

Well from what bosk said:

It has been played recently - 2015 on the 30th anniversary tour
It has been played fairly often since release - in fact according to setlist.fm it has been played each year since 05 (bar a 4 year window between 2011 and 2014)
Its a crowd favourite

Also he was listening to it at 3:58 (this one is a grasp at straws  )

EDIT: Its also a "monster" track in that its just damn brutal and heavy

2nd EDIT: Maybe bosk listened to PA, Never Enough and Sacrificed Sons (thats 8VM album order) before moving onto Epica - what length do those 3 songs equal?

[jsbru]

Okay, so neither SOC or ITNOG have been played live, the next album back in alphabetical order is Systematic Chaos, but neither TMOLS or ITPOE have been played live by Mangini either.

Then there's SDOIT, which is greater than 25 minutes.

Then there's Octavarium, in which neither SS or the title track have been played live by Mangini.

Then Metropolis II, which means it could be TDOE, OLT, TSCO or FF, & being one of DT's most highly regarded albums, I find it hard to believe that bosk wouldn't have this on his computer.

He would have to be listening to the end of TDOE when he posted, but it does fall within what's possible with that time frame.  Of the four listed, it's probably the most "monster."  All four would be unusual as openers, for different reasons.  And any song from that album has been played enough that it probably wouldn't catch your eye at first.

However, OLT has not been played with Mangini yet.  It really depends on whether he posted when he just started listening to Epica, or whether he posted sometime into that album.

Anyhow, we don't know what albums he has on his work computer, and a lot of otherwise good guesses come at/near the ends of albums (Scarred, Trial of Tears, BAI).  Of course, two of those are from albums that start with "A", so if that's a clue, it's not much of a clue at all. 

[jsbru]

Anyway, I'm not asking for more clues, because to narrow it down from here would simply give it away.

[Jinx]

Bosk can you please tell me, when the curtain drops and the band starts, will the first thing we hear be a 7 second bass intro?

[jsbru]

That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before

My bets on TDOE.

That would fill the "it's already been guessed" category.  But the other two possibilities were also already guessed.  So that one doesn't narrow it down, either.

I'd say your guess has to be the odds-on favorite at this point, though.

[erwinrafael]

Nope.  My work computer has Windows Media Player.  I have not modified the settings.  It sorts by artist, then album within the artist, alphabetically.

I have never listened to When Dream and Day Unite at work.

Good questions. 

That's the default WMP setting? I thought it is just alphabetical by albums regardless of the artist, which is how my WMP runs.

[TAC]

That leaves TDOE & FF. Personally speaking, I don't think Finally Free would work well as an opener at all, so, like I said before

My bets on TDOE.

Remember Bosk also thought that about the opener as well.

[jsbru]

Yeah, but TDOE would also be weird as an opener for the same reason Ytse Jam would.  Opening the set without the full band.  You see that name and at first think "of course, they've played that a lot," but it might not sink in that it's an instrumental until someone makes you look at it again.

[TAC]

What clue leads you to believe it could be an instrumental? Ytsejam is not what I consider a "monster" track.

[jsbru]

What clue leads you to believe it could be an instrumental? Ytsejam is not what I consider a "monster" track.

No clue...it's just a coincidence that my interpretation of the existing clues (rightly or wrongly) has lead me to two different instrumentals.

And then any instrumental would also qualify it for being unusual as an opener, so it's specifically (but not exclusively) consistent with that clue.

[Jinx]

So if bosk was listening to PA then carried on through NE and SS that is 25 minutes give or take a second.

I'm saying its Panic Attack