The Astonishing - Unpopular opinions

[deslock]

"The Astonishing" is a disappointment after the self-titled album (which was a step down from "A Dramatic Turn of Events").

I respect Petrucci's ambition and willingness to try new things, but I couldn't take all the cringe-inducing melodramatic lyrics and singing (LaBrie's voice isn't well suited for ballads) and after the first few all-the-way-through listens, I cut out the cheesiest 10 songs. Then a few days later I dropped 5 more. For the last week I've been listening to 15 songs, and I'm probably going to cut out 5 more songs this week.

To be fair, no Dream Theater album is good start-to-finish, and the remaining 10 songs are still 45 minutes of music. "Moment of Betrayal" and "A New Beginning" are standout tracks, and there are a lot of other wonderful moments: the ending of "The Gift of Music", the middle and end of "Three Days", the middle of "2285 Entr'acte", and most of "Heaven's Cove", "The Path That Divides", "The Walking Shadow", and "My Last Farewell". It's a shame the awesome intro of "A Life Left Behind" isn't part of a different song... it's mostly terrible after 1:23.

I may stitch together the best parts of the songs into one giant "Astonishing" medley.

Update: My opinion of The Astonishing improved significantly after trimming away most of it. In my playlist are:

Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
Lord Nafaryus excerpt (first 2:24)
Three Days
A Life Left Behind excerpt (first 1:24)
A New Beginning
2285 Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell

I think "The Astonishing abridged" will end up in my top 3 of Dream Theater albums (it's now ranked above the previous album).

[TheOutlawXanadu]

You are missing a lot of songs that, at least based on what I've read, are fan favorites, such as "A Better Life", "Ravenskill", "The X Aspect", and "Our New World". Fair play if you don't like them, it just seems a little strange that you could like all of the songs you listed and not those ones. The styles are pretty similar.

[deslock]

You are missing a lot of songs that, at least based on what I've read, are fan favorites, such as "A Better Life", "Ravenskill", "The X Aspect", and "Our New World". Fair play if you don't like them, it just seems a little strange that you could like all of the songs you listed and not those ones. The styles are pretty similar.

A couple of those almost made the cut:

• A Better Life: Has an OK part for a couple minutes starting at 0:38, but never really goes anywhere afterwards.
• Ravenskill: The middle is good, but it's not enough to bother with coming up with an edit.
• The X Aspect: About 45 seconds of it is good (3/4 the way through), but it's not enough to bother with coming up with an edit.
• Our New World: Opening riff is OK, but it never gets interesting. High cheese factor.

That I dislike some fan favorites is another reason I posted in this thread.

[EraVulgaris]

The more I listen to TA, the more I appreciate DT12

[jakepriest]

The more I listen to TA, the more I appreciate DT12

I think I'd take ANY song on TA over any song on DT12 with the exception of The Enemy Inside.

[Prog Snob]

The more I listen to TA, the more I appreciate DT12

I think I'd take ANY song on TA over any song on DT12 with the exception of The Enemy Inside.

That's my least favorite song on DT12.     They both have some really good songs, but I think The Astonishing might eventually surpass DT12 on my list.

[Tomislav95]

I like both DT12 and TA. TA is nowhere near to my favorite DT albums but I think there are not bad songs on it.

[Enigmachine]

TA and DT12 are both excellent albums IMO. I think they show a large degree of maturity and memorability. I've had basically the entire album of TA in my head for the last few weeks. When I'm walking along I just randomly hear "just a foolish young man, doesn't seem to understand", "Gabriel, has always been, the strength I call upon" or "Arhys was never aware, his son had followed him there" or like 30 other lines. Dunno if that's unpopular, although I guess saying that it isn't that far from DT12 quality-wise probably might be (DT12 hovers around 7-4 and TA 6-1 for me, but I think the quality is more consistent than many others do).

[Dublagent66]

Well, if quibbling over labels is counterproductive, then I guess we're all guilty of that. Maybe I misused the word "genre" and I'm not an expert in all the different labels that music is given.  That doesn't mean I can't distinguish one type of music from another.  Nevertheless, they are different types of descriptions as you mentioned simply because that's what they are, different.  That's the separation I was talking about. I don't believe that a rock opera theme and progressive metal are even remotely close to each other.  TA simply isn't heavy enough to be considered a metal album in any descriptive form.  It falls under the "rock" descriptive and leans even more toward "soft rock" but not "metal" or "progressive metal" for that matter.  For a band that has been predominantly "progressive metal" through out most of their catalog, TA is probably the polar opposite of that representation.  If that happens to be an unpopular opinion, then I came to the right place.

Metal falls under the very broad rock umbrella (as I said already).

Yes, it does.  That doesn't necessarily mean that TA is metal (as I already said).  To me, a rock opera theme and a progressive metal theme are two different things, regardless if they are both considered rock.  Would you put TA in the same category as SDOIT or ToT?  I wouldn't but that's just me.  It's not heavy enough to be considered "metal" IMO.  Believe it or not, that aspect of it is open to opinion.  That's pretty much what I've been saying all along.

Another thing, since when has anything that DT does and the category it falls under been commonly known as "fact"?  We all know it's some form of rock.  That was never a question.  All I said was that I don't think TA represents progressive metal in the vein of what DT usually does.  Therefore, I don't think TA is a predominantly progressive metal album.  DT is diverse enough to be open to many different interpretations of where they actually fall in the grand scheme of the very broad rock umbrella that you keep bringing up.  But, wouldn't you agree that progressive metal is usually a large percentage of the total?

Anyway, if you think TA represents progressive metal, fine.  For the most part, I don't.  It is more like progressive and soft rock with little metal teasers sprinkled throughout.  At this juncture, whether I agree with you or not really isn't the point.  I get what you mean.  Not sure you get what I mean.  If you do know what I mean and disagree, that's fine too.  But, I hope this helped to clear up my point of view at least a little bit.

[rumborak]

I think I would really like the instrumental version of TA.

[ariich]

To me, a rock opera theme and a progressive metal theme are two different things, regardless if they are both considered rock.

Everything else aside, we have already explained that those two descriptions aren't even in the same category. "Progressive metal" is a genre/style. "Rock opera" is a format.

[chaossystem]

"The Astonishing" is a disappointment after the self-titled album (which was a step down from "A Dramatic Turn of Events").

I respect Petrucci's ambition and willingness to try new things, but I couldn't take all the cringe-inducing melodramatic lyrics and singing (LaBrie's voice isn't well suited for ballads) and after the first few all-the-way-through listens, I cut out the cheesiest 10 songs. Then a few days later I dropped 5 more. For the last week I've been listening to 15 songs, and I'm probably going to cut out 5 more songs this week.

To be fair, no Dream Theater album is good start-to-finish, and the remaining 10 songs are still 45 minutes of music. "Moment of Betrayal" and "A New Beginning" are standout tracks, and there are a lot of other wonderful moments: the ending of "The Gift of Music", the middle and end of "Three Days", the middle of "2285 Entr'acte", and most of "Heaven's Cove", "The Path That Divides", "The Walking Shadow", and "My Last Farewell". It's a shame the awesome intro of "A Life Left Behind" isn't part of a different song... it's mostly terrible after 1:23.

I may stitch together the best parts of the songs into one giant "Astonishing" medley.

Update: My opinion of The Astonishing improved significantly after trimming away most of it. In my playlist are:

Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
Lord Nafaryus excerpt (first 2:24)
Three Days
A Life Left Behind excerpt (first 1:24)
A New Beginning
2285 Entr'acte
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell

I think "The Astonishing abridged" will end up in my top 3 of Dream Theater albums (it's now ranked above the previous album).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. However, my "playlist ratio" for The Astonishing is the opposite of this. There's about 40-45 minutes that I pretty much can't stand, which leaves about 85 or 86 minutes that I think is still pretty damn good.

My "trimmed away" list is:

All of the NoMac tracks except maybe Power Down,
A Better Life,
Act of Faythe,
Brother, Can You Hear Me?
A Life Left Behind,
Chosen,
The X Aspect,
Begin Again,
Losing Faythe,
and
Whispers on the Wind

That still leaves 20 tracks. I don't think anyone has ever said "that album ONLY has 20 songs on it that I like!"

[jakepriest]

My "trimmed away" list is:
A Better Life,
Act of Faythe,
A Life Left Behind,
The X Aspect,

All of these would probably make my top 10 tracks. 

[red barchetta]

*Makes an agressive proclamation*

*Is sensitive when one responds*

I wonder how he would react if one responded baking the same way to him?

Is he making cookies, because I am totally in the mood for some right now.

Really?  I haven't done much, just my opinions towards the album.  And when I was basically showing a negative aspect of it, I got a lot of "wow, that's new to me", "you just like to hate for no reason" bla, bla, bla.  I just said something about someone who does not appear to express appropriate respect towards other people opinion when they are the opposite of his.  Sorry if I'm not in your fan club and honestly if it takes only that to be kicked out, well go ahead Mr.  Your skin is as soft as DT last album

I think you're completely misconstruing everyone's comments. For the most part, we're all a respectful group of people. Every so often someone will make a completely inappropriate comment, but you know right away it's inappropriate and disrespectful. If anyone is hostile here, it's you when people disagree with what you say. There's a way to discuss differing opinions without turning it into a mess. Nobody here has been blatantly disrespectful towards you. However, when you respond like someone has, you might incite aggression in others. Before you respond to someone's comment, think really hard about whether or not you truly believe this person was being disrespectful. If you have the slightest doubt then logic would tell you they weren't. This would be an example of a disrespectful comment after your too soft and too cheesy critique: "Well that's fucking stupid. You must have no brain." or "Maybe your mom should take you to get your hearing tested."

Get it?   

You're so kind for being so explicite. I'm around in other topics, the exchanges between members and myself are constructive and creative. Here? I pointed out something. It did not please you.

Your original post regarding this topic was not constructive or creative. This was your comment: "It's way too soft and so cheezy.  It looks like Jordan and James wrote it."  That was neither constructive nor creative. You didn't expound on your statement. It was just that, a statement, so why should anyone in return give you a long thought out response?

Sorry if I offended you.  Didn't know you are so sensitive.  I will pay you by best respect in the future.  You seem to be a good guy.  Enjoy the album.

[Prog Snob]

*Makes an agressive proclamation*

*Is sensitive when one responds*

I wonder how he would react if one responded baking the same way to him?

Is he making cookies, because I am totally in the mood for some right now.

Really?  I haven't done much, just my opinions towards the album.  And when I was basically showing a negative aspect of it, I got a lot of "wow, that's new to me", "you just like to hate for no reason" bla, bla, bla.  I just said something about someone who does not appear to express appropriate respect towards other people opinion when they are the opposite of his.  Sorry if I'm not in your fan club and honestly if it takes only that to be kicked out, well go ahead Mr.  Your skin is as soft as DT last album

I think you're completely misconstruing everyone's comments. For the most part, we're all a respectful group of people. Every so often someone will make a completely inappropriate comment, but you know right away it's inappropriate and disrespectful. If anyone is hostile here, it's you when people disagree with what you say. There's a way to discuss differing opinions without turning it into a mess. Nobody here has been blatantly disrespectful towards you. However, when you respond like someone has, you might incite aggression in others. Before you respond to someone's comment, think really hard about whether or not you truly believe this person was being disrespectful. If you have the slightest doubt then logic would tell you they weren't. This would be an example of a disrespectful comment after your too soft and too cheesy critique: "Well that's fucking stupid. You must have no brain." or "Maybe your mom should take you to get your hearing tested."

Get it?   

You're so kind for being so explicite. I'm around in other topics, the exchanges between members and myself are constructive and creative. Here? I pointed out something. It did not please you.

Your original post regarding this topic was not constructive or creative. This was your comment: "It's way too soft and so cheezy.  It looks like Jordan and James wrote it."  That was neither constructive nor creative. You didn't expound on your statement. It was just that, a statement, so why should anyone in return give you a long thought out response?

Sorry if I offended you.  Didn't know you are so sensitive.  I will pay you by best respect in the future.  You seem to be a good guy.  Enjoy the album.

I'm not the sensitive one here. You're the one who made a big deal over a few words. This whole waste of a discussion was because you misinterpreted my words. If anyone is hypersensitive, it's you.

[KevShmev]

Oh, good grief, are you guys really gonna debate over who is more sensitive??

[rumborak]

Let's start a quote pyramid over this.

[Prog Snob]

Oh, good grief, are you guys really gonna debate over who is more sensitive??

Let's start a quote pyramid over this.

That's not what is happening here. It's too bad you missed the rest of the discussion.   

[TAC]

Let's start a quote pyramid over this.

Sounds good!

[ariich]

Freshmuse, you don't need to post the same thing in two different threads. I figured I'd keep the other one (the main album thread) as that seemed the most appropriate place for it.

[Zook]

You can't please everyone.