The Astonishing - Unpopular opinions

[Dublagent66]

Overall, I think it's one of DT's worst albums.  Like, bottom three.  I'd rather listen to When Dream and Day Unite WITH CHARLIE.  I honestly tried to give this a chance, even after my first post about it in the official thread for the album.  But, I'm sorry, the story is just....I don't know what else to say.... ridiculous. 

Edited....

Actually, I have to change my opinion.  I think it IS DT's worst album.  I was thinking SC and Train of Thought were below it, but they're actually not.... for me.  And, I HATE those albums.

For me, the first two listens were *really* bad. Then it picked up a little because I was starting to disregard certain things I didn't like, and maybe even appreciate some. However, over the last week or so it started to sink again. A few good moments on the album here and there, but the weak or grating moments ("how music makes me feel", "facing the unknown", the making-out session of Arabella and Nefaryus, to name just a few) dominate it too much for me to enjoy it. I put it on yesterday at work, and sad to say I turned it off halfway in because it annoyed me. No other DT album has ever done that.

That's very similar to my feelings and experience with this album too. First couple of listens it was very "meh" BUT I still had hopes that with repeated listens something would "click" and it would really grow on me. Then for the next 2 or 3 listens that DID start to happen and I was thinking that it wasn't as "meh" as I initially thought! BUT then from about listen 6 it really started to "sink" again and started to really bore me again Now after 12+ listens, I accept that it's not going to happen for me and I have my doubts that I will ever listen to the whole thing again more than once or twice
If you take away listening to and interpreting the story, (which for me is very very easy to do as I think its all far too cheesy and weak and I have absolutely NO interest in it) then to me, there really is nothing challenging about this album at all! I like DT music to challenge and reveal different aspects that you never heard on the first or tenth listen sometimes, when you listen to it but this is just too boring, easy and sadly ultimately, like you said, annoying in some respects too.

Glad (for the bands sake) that a lot of people are really digging it, but for me, after 27 years of being a fan, and after the disappointing DT12 too, it may be time to accept that my love for the band may well be nearly over

Still, you do get "3 strikes before you're out" so I won't totally give up until the next release and I will keep my hopes up that they come up with the goods (for me!) in a couple of years or so time!!

Totally agree with your statement.  In fact, DT12 looks now like a great album compare to TA.

You realize that's not saying a whole lot, right? 

[CrimsonSunrise]

Wow, you're brave! There is no way I would make such a trip. Even for DT.

B.Lee

I'm flying from Los Angeles to NYC for the RCMH show.  While I have a few critiques on the album I still think it will be a great show.  At the very least it will be unique, and probably never performed again, so well worth it for me to make the trek. 

[Bertielee]

Wow, you're brave! There is no way I would make such a trip. Even for DT.

B.Lee

I'm flying from Los Angeles to NYC for the RCMH show.  While I have a few critiques on the album I still think it will be a great show.  At the very least it will be unique, and probably never performed again, so well worth it for me to make the trek.

I think it will be a great show for sure. When I say I won't make such a trip is because I don't have the money for it as well as because it's too far for me. Yet, if it was paid for me, I would gladly go.

B.Lee

[CrimsonSunrise]

Wow, you're brave! There is no way I would make such a trip. Even for DT.

B.Lee

I'm flying from Los Angeles to NYC for the RCMH show.  While I have a few critiques on the album I still think it will be a great show.  At the very least it will be unique, and probably never performed again, so well worth it for me to make the trek.

I think it will be a great show for sure. When I say I won't make such a trip is because I don't have the money for it as well as because it's too far for me. Yet, if it was paid for me, I would gladly go.

B.Lee

Ahhh!  gotcha!...  Luckily my wife let me off the budget leash 

[King Postwhore]

My wife would say take me!

[CrimsonSunrise]

My wife would say take me!

Luckily, mine will be in Pittsburgh that week.  Which gave me my in 

[AtmosphericV]

Maybe I haven't checked well enough, but I dont see that A Tempting Offer gets much praise? To me its the best song on the album. I fell in love with the "sing-off" between Ahrys and Daryus from 1:50 and onward.

Its.freaking.awesome. Musically, and as well as that I have no problem seeing the scene in my mind as the song plays. I think this is one of the songs where the story actually helps the song. Other than that, Ravenskill has a part that is aaaamazing as well( 2:40 an onward). I love the Ahrys/Daryus theme(s) as in A better life, X aspect and the end of The Path that Divides. My favourite character and definately my melody favourite(except Brother Can You Hear Me theme). And Nafaryus/Faythe in A new Beginning is awesome. The Overture is just great. I think I just summed up all my favourite parts.


Other than that, this album is pretty flawed in several ways, despite of all the creativity that has been put into it(which I appreciate a lot). As mentioned earlier in the thread, it feels like a really well done first attempt on the original idea, and that they just went with that, without cutting out unnecessary songs, swapping around, editing a little here and there and just make the whole thing a little better and more cohesive and determined. Actually, I listened together with a friend through the first listen. We both had to laugh several times due to the never ending disney movie/gospel rock mood in sooo many parts of the album, as well as the extreme cheesiness that puts Petruccis' lyrics alongside those of Pocahontas' and Stratovarius. Cheese upon brie upon Edamer and more Gouda. Even queijo prato and norwegian goat cheese he puts into the mix. I mean, the ending was even more happy than most Disney movie endings. Like, EVERYTHING went well. Even Ahrys is fine up in the sky, Faythe didn't even die and Daryus is now deaf but was pardoned, and the wicked emperor turned to be the "goodest" Disney king ever in the last part.

[fischermasamune]

A Tempting Offer is my favorite song of TA (today).

[KevShmev]

A Tempting Offer is great, but it is sandwiched right in the middle of four of the best songs from the whole thing (Ravenskill, Chosen, The X Aspect and A New Beginning).

I still have no real clue about the story, and based on what some are saying, that is probably a good thing.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, it feels like a really well done first attempt on the original idea, and that they just went with that, without cutting out unnecessary songs, swapping around, editing a little here and there and just make the whole thing a little better and more cohesive and determined.

My initial impression of the album was somewhat in line with this, although not quite as critical, but the more I listen to it, the more I personally appreciate each and every song. After my first couple of spins, I put together an abridged playlist with about ten songs. Now, that playlist has ballooned to over an hour and a half's worth of materal, and I'm basically fighting myself not to add more songs, because that would defeat the purpose entirely.

[ErHaO]

Now two of my (probably, likely?) controversial opinions:

-TA features the best art and package of all DT albums (CD versions; Cover/back, disc prints, and booklet).
While the art on the site looks off (namely the zoomed in portraits) and the video was hilarious at certain moments (that bird with Xander  ), these graphics work really well in CD-booklet size. it kind of bugs me some of the locations are not included (a few extra pages wouldn't hurt, right?) and there is offcourse the booklet being pasted onto the digipack (which feels a bit brittle), but the whole design looks ace to me.

-A Better Life is one of DT's most epic and beautiful tracks.
I think this song is fantastic. Not only is it emotional and personal, it also feels grand and powerful at the same time. This is one of those songs where the whole concept just works tremendously. Short track length, no fast pace, no wankery, no particularly extreme vocals and yet to me it is one of DT's most powerful songs. This is an example of a song I never really expected from DT and one that shows the band still has fresh area's to explore regarding songwriting.

I also have negatives, but I don't think those are controversial at all, so will save those for another thread (pacing of 2nd disc, some silly story beats, some great idea's not used to their full extent etc.).

[pcs90]

Agreed on A Better Life. The guitar solo, as well as the gradual build up after it all the way to the end are especially good.

[BlobVanDam]

I find A Better Life average (but solid and perfectly listenable) up until the guitar solo, at which point it gets excellent. Killer guitar solo, then the Evangeline chorus section is wonderful, and the outro section after that is epic.

[chaossystem]

I really wanted to like Hymn of a Thousand Voices, but I just couldn't get there. I thought and hoped it would be better than it was, but it just kind of falls flat for me. A major disappointment.

[Dublagent66]

I really wanted to like Hymn of a Thousand Voices The Astonishing, but I just couldn't get there. I thought and hoped it would be better than it was, but it just kind of falls flat for me. A major disappointment.

[Polarbear]

I think The Astonishing might be the most inconsistent DT album, of all time.

There are some career-defining songs (A New Beginning, Ravenskill).

There is a whole lot of pointless songs (Most of disc.2).

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

I don't remember any other DT album having this kind of inconsistency in it's material. It feels like a lot of the songs were created in a very late stage of the songwriting process, just for the sake of making it a double album.

The Astonishing could have been much better, if they had cut out the unnecessary songs and just made it a single disc album. In this current state the album as a whole is a disappointment for me, despite having some awesome moments.

[jakepriest]

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

How are those in any shape or form embarassing excluding the fact that you just don't like them?

[mikeyd23]

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

How are those in any shape or form embarassing excluding the fact that you just don't like them?

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking... Personally, I really like both of those songs.

[jakepriest]

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

How are those in any shape or form embarassing excluding the fact that you just don't like them?

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking... Personally, I really like both of those songs.

Honestly I love all of Act 1. That disc alone would be enough to make my top 2 albums. Act 2 is where the songs kinda turn "eeh" to "meh" at best.

[mikeyd23]

Generally speaking, I still find Act 1 stronger than Act 2, but I've been meaning to purposefully listen to Act 2 by itself, instead of after listening to all of Act 1 as many people here have suggested. I do think by the time I'm getting to the second act I'm a bit fatigued.

[hefdaddy42]

Act 2 is awesome.

[TAC]

Generally speaking, I still find Act 1 stronger than Act 2, but I've been meaning to purposefully listen to Act 2 by itself, instead of after listening to all of Act 1 as many people here have suggested. I do think by the time I'm getting to the second act I'm a bit fatigued.

That's probably the problem. Act 2 is great and goes by very quickly.

[Prog Snob]

Act 2 is awesome.

[Dublagent66]

I think The Astonishing might be the most inconsistent DT album, of all time.

There are some career-defining songs (A New Beginning, Ravenskill).

There is a whole lot of pointless songs (Most of disc.2).

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

I don't remember any other DT album having this kind of inconsistency in it's material. It feels like a lot of the songs were created in a very late stage of the songwriting process, just for the sake of making it a double album.

The Astonishing could have been much better, if they had cut out the unnecessary songs and just made it a single disc album. In this current state the album as a whole is a disappointment for me, despite having some awesome moments.

I agree with all of this.  Makes me think of their last double album 14 years ago (SDOIT) which only required 6 songs to be an epic masterpiece.  Now, we have TA with 34 songs or tracks or whatever they're called.  Extremely excessive and unnecessary.  But hey, whatever.  They wanted to try something different and it's definitely different.  I'd rather have quality over quantity.

There are some songs, that are just embarrassing (The Answer, Lord Nafaryus).

How are those in any shape or form embarassing excluding the fact that you just don't like them?

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking... Personally, I really like both of those songs.

Honestly I love all of Act 1. That disc alone would be enough to make my top 2 albums. Act 2 is where the songs kinda turn "eeh" to "meh" at best.

How is Act 2 in any shape or form "eeh to meh" excluding the fact that you just don't like it?  Oh wait....

[Zook]

How is The Answer embarrassing? It's a short little song with beautiful melodies and orchestration? The only song I can see anyone calling embarrassing is Three Days simply because it's such a departure. The Test That Stumped Them All being the closest thing to a comparison with Portnoy's high pitched voice. I don't think Three Days is embarrassing either, but I can understand if someone else does. The Answer and Lord Nafaryus? Huh?

[Luoto]

There is a whole lot of pointless songs (Most of disc.2).

...

It feels like a lot of the songs were created in a very late stage of the songwriting process, just for the sake of making it a double album.

This is actually a true case of "You don't get it", not meant in a derogatory way or anything. You don't have to like it, but there's a very valid point in how the album is written in general. It's not a traditional song-by-song music album, the closest comparison would probably be 6DOIT (the song).

[jakepriest]

How is Act 2 in any shape or form "eeh to meh" excluding the fact that you just don't like it?  Oh wait....

I do like Act II. I just feel a few of the songs really drag it down a lot. Saying a song is "meh" is not the same thing as saying it's outright embarassing.

[Dream Team]

Lord Nafayrius is awesome, and that part at the end always gives me goosebumps. "Into the far off reaches . . ."

[BlobVanDam]

I don't get it. The Answer is inoffensive. Lord Nafaryus is a slight departure, but also fine. Three Days I'd understand due to the fun cheese factor, but even that is so awesome and different that I love it.

[energythief]

Late to the party, but here are opinions that would get me banned in the other thread.


1) The lyrics are the worst ever written by DT. My first three listens went something like this: "Far in the distant future...." *click*
2) The bit about "my music player" is really weak. It sounds so out of place, and shatters whatever immersion I've been able to experience up to that point.
3) Gabriel is a Mary Sue, and as a result, completely uninteresting. "There walks a god among us..."? Pass.
4) I have come to realize that I care much more about the lyrics and the story than the music LOL. I not a musician, so the stuff that makes everyone else on here moist barely rates a "meh" from me. Which makes it very hard for me to be a DT fan sometimes. Like, I still can't listen to A Nightmare to Remember or The Count of Tuscany because of the lyrics.


Still. I continue to try hard to learn the songs so that I can make my own playlist and skip the stuff I can't stomach.

[Train of Naught]

You could've saved yourself from writing 3 more points as all 4 points revolve around the lyrics 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

DT isn't a band that's particularly known for their amazing lyrics, so you're definitely a one-of-kind fan lol. I can name several reasons that people have for liking Dream Theater, but I would never put 'lyrics' as one of those reasons.

The lyrics in The Astonishing are cheesy, kind of bland at times, but they work. They're entirely constructed in the storytelling frame of mind and that's excellent given the nature of the album. Reading the lyrics is like listening to the script of a musical which is entirely OK by me because that's what they wanted to do, but I get that if you remove Act of Faythe, for example, out of context and listen to it without any insight of what does the 'music player' represent in the story it could sound awful lol.

If you're not very into musicals, I get why you would be annoyed by some of the lyrics in here. Musicals are known to make *everything* in life a singing moment (like doing the laundry), so you kind of have to be in that state of mind to enjoy 'em.

Also, the 'Far in the distant future' thing is just a trick out of JP's bag-of-storytelling-tricks. It's analogous to 'Once upon a time', which has been used countless times in all types of storytelling. You may be overreacting quite a bit over that one heh.

[hefdaddy42]

DT isn't a band that's particularly known for their amazing lyrics, so you're definitely a one-of-kind fan lol. I can name several reasons that people have for liking Dream Theater, but I would never put 'lyrics' as one of those reasons.

The lyrics in The Astonishing are cheesy, kind of bland at times, but they work. They're entirely constructed in the storytelling frame of mind and that's excellent given the nature of the album. Reading the lyrics is like listening to the script of a musical which is entirely OK by me because that's what they wanted to do, but I get that if you remove Act of Faythe, for example, out of context and listen to it without any insight of what does the 'music player' represent in the story it could sound awful lol.

If you're not very into musicals, I get why you would be annoyed by some of the lyrics in here. Musicals are known to make *everything* in life a singing moment (like doing the laundry), so you kind of have to be in that state of mind to enjoy 'em.

Also, the 'Far in the distant future' thing is just a trick out of JP's bag-of-storytelling-tricks. It's analogous to 'Once upon a time', which has been used countless times in all types of storytelling. You may be overreacting quite a bit over that one heh.

Agreed on all points.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

 

[Kotowboy]

The lyrics have definitely improved since Black Clouds & Silver Linings.