The Astonishing - Unpopular opinions

[TAC]

I'm BUGged by the fact that the first reference to BUG in the lyrics was in A New Beginning.  It should have been in Act of Faythe, when she recalled discovering the music player, too (it was in the long form description)

I'm not bugged by it, but I think it could've definitely been introduced in AOF.

, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Yeah, that would be cool.

[bosk1]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Speaking of which, I just want to chime in for a moment that it pissed me off to no end, after searching for YEARS for that soundtrack, to finally find and buy it only to learn that the headcutting duel was not even on it.

[PixelDream]

Every single recorded second on Falling Into Infinity is more exciting than everything on TA. Something's gotta do with great performances and dynamics. I don't care if the record's poppy, the soul's still there.

[rumborak]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Speaking of which, I just want to chime in for a moment that it pissed me off to no end, after searching for YEARS for that soundtrack, to finally find and buy it only to learn that the headcutting duel was not even on it.

What the hell?! That's fucked up. I mean, any person who will have bought that soundtrack was likely buying it for that showdown.

[TAC]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Speaking of which, I just want to chime in for a moment that it pissed me off to no end, after searching for YEARS for that soundtrack, to finally find and buy it only to learn that the headcutting duel was not even on it.

What the hell?! That's fucked up. I mean, any person who will have bought that soundtrack was likely buying it for that showdown.

I had bought the Clockwork Orange soundtrack for the opening music, and it wasn't on that either.

[bosk1]

Yeah, it was only the Ry Cooder stuff on there.  Not a single note of Steve Vai to be found.

EDIT:  Okay, there is some other stuff besides Ry Cooder.  But still, no Vai.  https://www.amazon.com/Crossroads-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B000002L9D/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454627980&sr=8-1&keywords=crossroads+soundtrack

[Gromit1710]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Speaking of which, I just want to chime in for a moment that it pissed me off to no end, after searching for YEARS for that soundtrack, to finally find and buy it only to learn that the headcutting duel was not even on it.

If it's any consolation, it appears in full on Steve Vai's 2002 The Elusive Light and Sound, Vol. 1 album.

Here's a Youtube link to the track. Starts at about 2:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ7-IhxxPiQ

[chrisbDTM]

Not sure if this is unpopular but astonishing is a very weak ending song. Album should've ended with our new world

[nicmos]

I think The Astonishing has disappointed me even more than Z2 (Dark Matters) did, and that's not a possibility that I had entertained beforehand.

[BlobVanDam]

Probably an unpopular opinion: Anyone else get the impression that certain plot elements were abandoned after being initially considered integral? E.g. the militia serves no purpose at all in the story; somehow I imagine JP starting out with the idea of a militaristic revolution against the ruling class. Similarly, the NOMACS don't really do much in the plot, particularly musically. I get the impression JP initially introduced them as the "enforcers" of the oppression, but when he then came up with the interpersonal story between the characters that took the front seat, and he never ended up using the NOMACS really.

I think JP probably wrote an outline with more ideas and scope than what he was ultimately able to fit into even 2+ hours of music. When it came time to put the story to lyrics it may not have fit, so he focused on one aspect (the personal stories), while others got a bit lost and vague in the final album (the NOMACS, the world building), hence the descriptions to help fill in the blanks, and the fact they're looking into other media to tell the complete story.

[mooshinator]

- Too many songs have a buildup/epic finale ending. Just on the first disc alone, Dystopian Overture (which I can understand, being an overture), A Better Life, When Your Time Has Come, Act Of Faythe, Brother Can You Hear Me, Ravenskill, Chosen (before the outro), A Tempting Offer (to a degree), and The Road To Revolution (which makes sense being the disc finale) all end with a similar epic buildup. I LOVE these kinds of finishes, but they were simply overdone for my taste.

- Ravenskill is my favorite song on either disc

- "Remember Bug" and  "How music makes me feel" from A New Beginning make me cringe

- "My Music Player" from Act Of Faythe makes me cringe

- And last but certainly most unpopular: I'm completely torn by this album. I absolutely love the music, but I feel embarrassed listening to it. Not embarrassed by others, just embarrassed to my own self. This is the first time DT has made me feel this way.  This album makes me feel like I have horrible, cheesy taste. My ears love it, but my mind is playing devil's advocate on every listen. I'm NOT trying to bash it by any means....as mentioned I love the music. I just wish it didn't make me feel...hmm, immature maybe? Anyone else feel this way?

If those are unpopular opinions, then I don't want to be popular.  This album is *really* cheesy and so many parts make me cringe, but I still love the music.  But I can't help feeling perpetually embarrassed by it.

For example, prior to this album, if I was listening to DT at work and someone walked in and asked what I was listening to, I'd gladly yank out my headphone cord and let them listen, knowing full well that they'd hate it (because most people hate prog metal), but I'd be sort of proud to let them know that I'm a fan of weird prog metal music.

But if somebody came into my office while I was listening to *this* album, I'd turn it off as fast as I could because something inside of me has trouble admitting that I like it.  But I DO really like it.  But I have trouble coming to terms with that or admitting it to anyone else.

[erwinrafael]

Well, being ashamed of what you like speaks more about you than the artists or the work of art.

[mooshinator]

Well, being ashamed of what you like speaks more about you than the artists or the work of art.

Totally fair point.  Just coming to terms with liking something that in the past I called cheesy when other bands did it.  Not trying to say anything bad about DT.

[ariich]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Yeah I did also kinda expect more electronic elements in the main songs as well, to show that tension. There's a bit in 2 or 3 songs, but that's pretty much it.

[Crow]

PS---I think that Breaking All Illusions is the best individual song by the band in the last 10 years.

considering TROAE is now more than 10 years old, this is 100% correct

[Zook]

The stock sounds aren't very good, especially the crying one.

That might be a popular opinion though.

[Enigmachine]

The stock sounds aren't very good, especially the crying one.

That might be a popular opinion though.

Yeah, whenever they are mentioned they are criticised so I would say that's a popular opinion (that I agree with).

[nicmos]

it might be that the crying one is objectively worse, but the kids laughing one bothers me a lot more.  at best, it sounds like they're being tickled, which is obviously not what's happening at the time.

[Dublagent66]

PS---I think that Breaking All Illusions is the best individual song by the band in the last 10 years.

considering TROAE is now more than 10 years old, this is 100% correct

I don't think TROAE is even in the same league as BAI.  I would go back 14 years to SDOIT.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think TROAE is even in the same league as BAI.

I agree, except TROAE is the one in the higher league imo.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Well, being ashamed of what you like speaks more about you than the artists or the work of art.

Totally fair point.  Just coming to terms with liking something that in the past I called cheesy when other bands did it.  Not trying to say anything bad about DT.

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of perspective, in my opinion. If someone walked into your office, heard you playing "Pull Me Under", and then went and YouTube'd it, they'd see a music video with a bunch of dudes in leather pants, huge hair, and a wolf man. I'd be willing to wager that people would rate that as more cheesy than TA.

My approach is: Embrace the cheese. Corniness can be a part of a band's charm. One of my fondest music memories was seeing Rush last year and hearing 20,000 people sing, "For I have dined on honeydew! And drank the milk of paradise!" Super goofy and ridiculous, but really fun as well.

[ariich]

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of perspective, in my opinion. If someone walked into your office, heard you playing "Pull Me Under", and then went and YouTube'd it, they'd see a music video with a bunch of dudes in leather pants, huge hair, and a wolf man. I'd be willing to wager that people would rate that as more cheesy than TA.

Absolutely this!

And have you seen what the band looks like in the liner notes to I&W? Good lord.

[rumborak]

Is the novelization confirmed?
I think to some degree I fell prey to my own expectations. The pre-release PR was all about the NOMACS, and given how they were said to suppress music in any other form, I was expecting (hoping) for a musical showdown between electronic (JR going all out) and hand-crafted music (JP going all out). JP and JR musically battling it out, that would have been cool I think. Like the end of "Crossroads" with Ralph Macchio and Steve Vai, but cooler.

Yeah I did also kinda expect more electronic elements in the main songs as well, to show that tension. There's a bit in 2 or 3 songs, but that's pretty much it.

Well, overall I think the tension could have been stronger. I still think it's weird that Nefaryus, a ruthless ruler with hovering machines to enforce his rule, essentially says "oh, OK" 3 minutes before the end of the album and then everybody is happy.

[TAC]

I still think it's weird that Nefaryus, a ruthless ruler with hovering machines to enforce his rule, essentially says "oh, OK" 3 minutes before the end of the album and then everybody is happy.

I find it weird that he sounds like Freddie Mercury in his own song.

[Herrick]

unpopular opinion: shoulda had 50% MORE ballads

And I get that the story isn't a carbon copy but Petrucci should've chosen something that isn't as similar to Rush's 2112.

Because?

I realize my opinion isn't very logical because this sort of concept borrowing is done all the time in books & movies. However, I feel that concept albums are rare enough that they should try to tell somewhat unique stories. And 2112 is so classic and good that it doesn't need a "remake".

[rumborak]

It's unfortunate, yeah. Had this been Green Day doing it people probably would have shrugged their shoulders saying "yeah, 2112 of this band called Rush had something similar 30 years ago". But, DT has had soooo many run-ins with " What would Rush do ", it's weird JP didn't catch himself when he wrote the story.

But, and thus will be an unpopular opinion indeed, I have learned at this point that that's what DT is kinda about. They make new stuff by deriving from existing stuff. They don't necessarily like going completely-new, but rather modify (and often improve) on what had worked for other bands.

[Enigmachine]

But, and thus will be an unpopular opinion indeed, I have learned at this point that that's what DT is kinda about. They make new stuff by deriving from existing stuff. They don't necessarily like going completely-new, but rather modify (and often improve) on what had worked for other bands.

I quite like this about DT. It proves that you can still contribute some creativity to old ideas. Also, innovation isn't a factor I consider important when I'm listening to music.

[TAC]

But, and thus will be an unpopular opinion indeed, I have learned at this point that that's what DT is kinda about. They make new stuff by deriving from existing stuff. They don't necessarily like going completely-new, but rather modify (and often improve) on what had worked for other bands.

What are they supposed to do? How completely new can you expect them to get?

If anything TA breaks the mold. I think the incorporation of the choirs, orchestra (I realize they've used one before), bagpipes. I mean if anything, this is the type of thing people have been clamoring for, no? I guess we can debate whether the music itself is worth listening to, but if this isn't trying something new, I don't know what is.

[rumborak]

TAC, that last comment was more of a general comment. I agree, TA breaks the mold after a long string of similar sounding albums, and I'm excited that DT is taking chances again.
The comment was more about my own shifting perception of DT over the years. I came into listening to them thinking that everything I heard was new and unique. When I started listening more and more to the bands that influenced them, I started recognizing a lot of sections that were essentially modified versions of existing songs.
That troubled me quite a bit for a long time, but now I've come to accept it.

[TAC]

I understand. Honestly, when I got into DT, I never really considered them totally original, but I loved the way they incorporated many influences, and did so with such a high degree of musicianship.
I could never get through a Yes album, or a King Crimson album, but I love how they take that influence and present it in a way that I can really appreciate.

Personally, I though ADTOE was fresh. Songs like FFH and BTS were the types of songs I was looking for. I don't need my metal from DT. I thought DT12 was the safe album, not ADTOE. I feel like those albums were released in reverse order.
With TA, it can be a bit long and clunky at times, but it's quite an album.

[Nel_Annette]

So after listening to the album a few times, I decided to listen while reading the synopsis on the website for each song. So...

I find the story to be really underwhelming for all those character bios and world-building they were doing pre-release. Like, I can take the cheesiness (I find a lot of Scenes From A Memory to be in the same calibur of cheese), but I was expecting like, some giant battles or a renegade Nomac dubstep death machine or something. The story was always secondary to what I was listening for anyway, though, so I can take it or leave it.

As for the album itself, I'm pretty middle of the road on it. There's a lot of great musical moments, but there's a lot of filler there too. This will still need a while before I have a really solid opinion of it.

[ariich]

TAC, that last comment was more of a general comment. I agree, TA breaks the mold after a long string of similar sounding albums, and I'm excited that DT is taking chances again.
The comment was more about my own shifting perception of DT over the years. I came into listening to them thinking that everything I heard was new and unique. When I started listening more and more to the bands that influenced them, I started recognizing a lot of sections that were essentially modified versions of existing songs.
That troubled me quite a bit for a long time, but now I've come to accept it.

I understand. Honestly, when I got into DT, I never really considered them totally original, but I loved the way they incorporated many influences, and did so with such a high degree of musicianship.
I could never get through a Yes album, or a King Crimson album, but I love how they take that influence and present it in a way that I can really appreciate.

Personally, I though ADTOE was fresh. Songs like FFH and BTS were the types of songs I was looking for. I don't need my metal from DT. I thought DT12 was the safe album, not ADTOE. I feel like those albums were released in reverse order.
With TA, it can be a bit long and clunky at times, but it's quite an album.

Really interesting points. I think my background with DT is much like TAC's. When I discovered them, I found the combination of styles and influences unique, but it was pretty clear from very early on that they always wore their influences on their sleeves. Never bothered me, but I guess it's easier if you kinda know that from the start.

[FlashCE]

myung is nonexistent on this album. petrucci could've tracked bass

Do your speakers have any issues with bass?

[ariich]

Yeah people say that every album, but I don't get it. I can hear the bass fine.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm glad I do my listening on high quality headphones. Never had an issue with hearing JM on any album, including TA. If I try listening on my crappy laptop speakers though, I can't hear the bass, like the fill in Dystopian Overture, but that's a speaker problem, not a mix problem.

I'd like JM to be a bit louder overall on TA, but I can still definitely hear all of those cool fills and such.