*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[alexofsweden]

Negative:

I wish i could like the album, but i can´t...all i hear is ballads alá The Spirit Carries On. I´m going to give it a couple of spins before a completly give up, but for now i´m very dissapointed.
Mangini´s playing doesn´t do it for me, always the same machine gun snare fills. His double kicks sometimes seems out of place and makes no sense. He´s a very skilled drummer though, but it feels too mechanical and stiff!

Positive:

It sounds great
Very smooth playing and solos from Petrucci, as always
Labrie haven´t sounded better, very diverse singing
Jordan is Jordan


I really hope this album grows into me, cause i´ve never experienced wanting to turn of an Dream Theater album halfway through before...been listening to them since they released Awake.

My spontanious feeling right now: I want Portnoy back...i really do

So, it´s growing on me...keeps getting better and better 

[V_R11]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

[BlobVanDam]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

I don't think she was actually dead yet, but very close to it. Arhys was dead dead.


I think.

[jayvee3]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Arhys was dead, Faythe was on her last breaths but still alive. That's what I concluded anyway... 

***Ninja'd by Blob 

[jayvee3]

I said it before it was released, and I'll say it again...having James sing all the characters was a mistake.  I can't distinguish who is who.  They should have called the album "Dream Theater presents The Astonishing" and brought in different singers for the different parts - that way it's not an "official" DT album, but still recognizes that the band was the source of the album.

I'm not knocking JLB's ability to sing, just the ability to sing so many distinct characters - something I wouldn't expect anyone to do effectively to be honest.

I agree with Mason here. One of the things that detracts my enjoyment of the album is the fact the characters are indistinguishable for me without a lyric sheet. I mean, Nafaryus is perfectly distinguishable because he always has some crazy musical theme behind his parts, but that's about it.

Another thing is I felt the album was too bloated and I think this album didn't need to be over two hours long.

However, after two listens I think some parts are really fantastic, like Lord Nafaryus (I knew I would like this song when I heard the title ) or Three Days, and some songs are also really good like Ravenskill and Moment of Betrayal, which works much much better in context of the album. On the other hand, the overture and the final song left me disappointed a bit.

Still, overall, might be the best album DT had since Systematic Chaos for me. Need to listen more to digest the whole thing.

Does it really matter though? I mean, once you've been through the album once with the lyric sheet and even read a bit more into the story on the site, the story is pretty clear. Understanding that, it's pretty distinguishable who's singing what based purely on knowing the story alone. I've listened for a day and get who's singing what as it's pretty clear in the context of the story.

I also think that for longevity, as purely a Dream Theater album, it is better with James singing. I've been listening to many of the songs in random order, and contrary to what many have said, I feel many of them work absolutely fine standalone. This will hold well  when it isn't shiny and new anymore, with people just listening to the songs because they simply flat out like them amongst the rest of the DT catalogue.

[The Curious Orange]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to join the minority who don't like the album.

There's a real lack of actual songs here. They've let the story get in the way of the music. All I hear is a collection of unfinished song fragments, some of which are really good, but none of them are satisfying.

That said, I can still remember throwing 6DOIT across the room when I bought it - I thought it was awful on first listen, but it has grown on me since and I now think it's one of their stronger efforts. I imagine I'll come to love TA more as I get into it (there's a LOT of music to get into), but after two listens I can honestly say it's not so much Astonishing as Disappointing. 

Sorry.

[Logain Ablar]

The song currently stuck in my head is "A Better Life". I just love everything about it. Foot stomping rhythm in the verses, that solo!! I get chills every time the "Evangeline" bit kicks in. Just brilliant.

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned any similarities with Les Mis, but that's what I'm reminded of when I hear Brother Can You Hear Me/Hymn Of A Thousand Voices. Specifically thinking of  "Can you hear the people sing..." part if anyone knows it. I'm not saying it's musically similar of course, but it serves a similar purpose in the story. Like a call to arms, for the people to join together in revolution..

Anyway, total nonsense, but that's just what it conjured up in my mind.. 

[Pax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZKQHqYR6Q&list=PLToa5JuFMsXR7S5f8Ti0IWHYFOU5WclqA&index=1

Wow, I didn't realize DT uploaded the whole album on youtube :O

[McNugg]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to join the minority who don't like the album.

There's a real lack of actual songs here. They've let the story get in the way of the music. All I hear is a collection of unfinished song fragments, some of which are really good, but none of them are satisfying.

You've perfectly summed up my thoughts!  I've been struggling to think of words to describe my opinion but you've just gone and done it!

There are a few very good songs but then there is so much filler.  The music just chugs along in the background like a slow dull ballad while JLB tells the story.  A lot of the music is very forgettable.  Unlike say Ayreon for example where I feel the music not only accompanies but helps to tell the story, I just feel like it's background noise to the storytelling for a lot of The Astonishing.  They've had to add or extend songs purely so they can fit all the words of the story in.

There are some songs I absolutely love.  Gift of Music, A Better Life, Three Days, A Life Left Behind, Our New World for example.  I'm sure i'll be listening to them a whole load more as they work so well on their own.  But the rest..meh.  Still can't remember much of the rest even after many many listens.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

The thing is though if they were to use diffrent singers like Ayreon they had to do the same live which means alot of extra personel to pay especially if they used famous singers. If they used famous singers then there's the logistical nightmare of getting everyone on the same tour. Everytime they play songs from this album live they either have to scale down and let JLB sing everything or use backup singers or the worst scenario imo use backtrack.

Let's say they did use diffrent singers on the album then it would be much weirder to hear JLB sing everything himself which means they're stuck with backup singers or backtrack everytime they played anything from TA.

I think this might be the reason why JLB sang everything himself on the album, that way people will be used to his voice doing all the parts live.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm not into albums with a lot of guest vocalists, and I'm glad they did it this way. JLB is the voice of DT, and I think having so many other guests would have undermined JLB's abilities. And I'm fussy with vocalists, so they probably would have ruined it for me.
And if they do it live with just JLB, you'll get comparisons with the studio album and people wishing it was all JLB in the first place.

[dtrocker25]

Got the  hd flac download...You cant fully rate this on one listen..but it is an amazing work i must say..if they can pull this off live which its pretty much been created for it will be..should i say. ASTONISHING

GOD I HOPE THEY COME BACK TO DFW

[V_R11]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

I don't think she was actually dead yet, but very close to it. Arhys was dead dead.


I think.

Makes sense. Thanks

[RuRoRul]

A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
"He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

[Jinx]

Just realised that Gabriel inadvertently sends Faythe to Heaven's Cove on the night. During Road to Revolution:

"I know where there is faith there's always hope,
We'll meet beneath the stars at Heaven's Cove"

I did wonder why on earth Faythe was there. And Gabriel turns up just in time!

[bl5150]

The band should read the reviews at Amazon.

Yikes. As a guitar player I'm starting to wonder if the good people at Mesa Boogie are starting to regret slapping a JP name tag (first time they ever did an "artist model" endorsement) on what might well be one of the best amps they ever made (I won't get into the technical details).

And while I kept thinking - wow, even harmonicas, whistling or an accordion couldn't make this any worse - on comes bag pipes. Bag pipes! 

Why would they possibly regret a JP signature model amp after hearing TA? It has some of JP's best guitar work on it ever. Great chord structure, riffs, solos...This album is signature JP stuff.

Just a hunch. This album is going to go down as DT's "The Elder" or "Rock me tonight". And the fact that "Rolling Stone" likes it is more of an indicator since they're almost always wrong about everything.

I'm (so far) not a big fan of The Astonishing ,so I can maybe relate to The Elder as it was very polarising.  But Rock Me Tonight is going too far 

[V_R11]

A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
"He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

Daryus is in utter shock about what he has just done. Also the scream we hear at the end of My Last Farewell shatters his eardrums.
"Faythe is unaffected due to the protection of her earphones but Daryus is not so lucky. The scream shatters the prince's eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions."

Weird that your track explanations cut off...I can see them completely

[Jinx]

A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
"He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

I have the same problem with those song descriptions. I was just reading up on The Walking Shadow for the reason you described. It seems Gabriel let's out a huge scream that everyone can hear from afar (which brings Nafaryus and Arabelle to the scene),  however Faythe doesn't hear it because of her headphones. Then  it's says "But Daryus is not so lucky. The... (cuts off)" so I think he may get knocked out by the scream or something?

[Zydar]

That must be some real good noise cancelling headphones she's got, to not hear Gabriel's scream.

[craig1928]

i also wonder what song is very similar to Our New World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAh--lH0H3U

[RuRoRul]

A story point / question:

Does anyone else think it's strange Daryus has no presence after The Walking Shadow? Reading the lyrics while listening I was wondering if he died as well and I missed that somehow, as he has no lines and suddenly Gabriel and others are on the scene but there's no sense of danger that the guy that just killed and attacked people might do it again. But obviously he still seems to be about at the end based on the lyrics. Maybe he went into shock after stabbing his sister or something - would have been good to the get that across in the music if so.

Also, I seem to have a problem with the track descriptions online  (which I realise may contain the answer to my question), and I'm not sure if there's a issue with my browser or something, as the they appear to just cut off at the end. E.g. The Answer ends like:
"He embodies the very essence of promise and hope that the inhabitants of Ravenskill cling to and it is he whom they wholly place their belief in. They see"

And A Better Life ends like:
"Knowing that she would not survive the birth of their son and recounting the life of misery and misfortune she endured, he"

Daryus is in utter shock about what he has just done. Also the scream we hear at the end of My Last Farewell shatters his eardrums.
"Faythe is unaffected due to the protection of her earphones but Daryus is not so lucky. The scream shatters the prince's eardrums causing irreversible nerve damage and rendering him hearing-less. He is now doomed to live inside of his own soundless prison with the rest of his lifetime left to lament in a barren wasteland of silence over his despicable actions."

Weird that your track explanations cut off...I can see them completely

. That is pretty cool, makes sense that something happened to him at that point. Thanks.

There must just be a problem with my browser or something then if they work fine for some others. I am reading on a tablet at the moment so maybe that is causing problems. Will try to look at them again later on another device, and can hopefully catch the more of the additional context / explanation for events.

[RuRoRul]

I have the same problem with those song descriptions. I was just reading up on The Walking Shadow for the reason you described. It seems Gabriel let's out a huge scream that everyone can hear from afar (which brings Nafaryus and Arabelle to the scene),  however Faythe doesn't hear it because of her headphones. Then  it's says "But Daryus is not so lucky. The... (cuts off)" so I think he may get knocked out by the scream or something?

Yeah, I didn't think there was much point in reading the track descriptions if I wasn't sure how much I was missing. Looks like it cuts off just as it gets to the part V_R11 described.

[hefdaddy42]

I just read this whole thread to catch up 

At any rate, I listened through the entire thing once while reading the lyrics (I am now playing it again in the background).

My first impressions are: holy shit.  This is really quite the accomplishment by the band.

Too early to rate, I definitely need to digest it more, but I am so impressed by the knowledge of the ambition and scope of what they attempted, and how they fully committed to it, and nailed it.  Just a really impressive musical achievement.

The production is also wonderful, which is an extra added bonus.

The sound of the band, over the course of the album, is like Pink Floyd had a child with Queen, and that child grew up listening to Dream Theater, and then made a rock opera.

There are loads of musical ideas here, with plenty of real piano and other instruments, as well as a good amount of riffage and plenty of great solos.  And JLB is just ridiculously good on this project.

I need to familiarize myself more with the actual songs, but overall, I could not be more impressed with this album.  Astonishing, indeed.

[Rickharris1011]

How the fuck is JLB going to pull The Path That Divides live?

I thought the same my first listen. He's gonna have to shorten the length of the last lines a lot?

I read in an interview that at a couple of points in the show he'll pre-record one character, which will be on the video screen.  He'll sing another character towards the screen.  This might be one of those songs. 

Either that or he'll totally go Gabriel, dress as Arhys on one half of his body and Daryus the other and keep flipping around on the stage depending who's singing.  He'll then pull out a specially designed sword mic stand and stab his Arhys side with his Daryus hand.

[Rickharris1011]

The song currently stuck in my head is "A Better Life". I just love everything about it. Foot stomping rhythm in the verses, that solo!! I get chills every time the "Evangeline" bit kicks in. Just brilliant.

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned any similarities with Les Mis, but that's what I'm reminded of when I hear Brother Can You Hear Me/Hymn Of A Thousand Voices. Specifically thinking of  "Can you hear the people sing..." part if anyone knows it. I'm not saying it's musically similar of course, but it serves a similar purpose in the story. Like a call to arms, for the people to join together in revolution..

Anyway, total nonsense, but that's just what it conjured up in my mind.. 

Not nonsense at all.  JP said in an interview  that Les Mis and Jesus Christ Superstar were influences for the album.  I heard they tried to get Anne Hathaway to play the part of Faythe but she was afraid of being upstaged by JLB so declined.  (OK I made that part up, but would still be pretty cool)

[r0cken]

Just finished listening for the first time, and sorry if it's been discussed already, but... What's up with all the sugar? I mean the mellow parts of part II - My Last Farewell, Losing Fayth, Whispers on the Wind. It's not just mellow, it's, I don't know... Bordering on nausea-inducing.

Not trying to be negative, I really did enjoy the first part a lot. I bet the second will grow on me too.

[Rickharris1011]

That must be some real good noise cancelling headphones she's got, to not hear Gabriel's scream.

I think JP's already working with Beats on the merchandising deal.  The latest in Noise Cancelling Headphones, the StudioBUG.  Get a pair free when you purchase the Boogie JP2C. 
Keeps you from hearing eardrum-shattering screams and bad reviews

[RuRoRul]

There must just be a problem with my browser or something then if they work fine for some others. I am reading on a tablet at the moment so maybe that is causing problems. Will try to look at them again later on another device, and can hopefully catch the more of the additional context / explanation for events.

Just to mention in case anyone else had the same experience with the track descriptions on the site, they are fine on my laptop.

[SeRoX]

Anyone hears the similarites between Mandmen&Sinners and TA vocallly, especailly in James' rough style. And... I can hear the same vocal using style that James did on Frameshift as well. They were my favourite. James is absoluletly the MVP of the album for me.

[thosava]

I listened to the album for the fourth time this morning. Nearly every song gave me chills, except two or three (not counting NOMAC tracks). This album is much better than what i was expecting, and even better than i hoped.

On another note: has any of you listened to both the CD and the HDtracks versions? I wonder how big the improvement is, if any.

[RoeDent]

I can see a huge potential for prequels to The Astonishing. Some plot ideas:

- Gabriel's upbringing
- How the NOMACs were built and came into being
- Nafaryus' upbringing with his father and Bug

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

clinks63 was here..

OH MY GOD, HE'S BACK!!!!!!! This is better than Vlasto Day.

[thosava]

I checked the loudness war website and found that the CD actually has a better DR rating than the HDtracks version. Can this be correct?

[mikemangioy]

Wow, this record... it sands up to its name!

I need to listen to it a few more times before I can tell favorites and stuff, but I like what I hear. It's incredibly well-written and immersive as far as story goes. Good freaking job of thinking out of the box and doing something creative as hell. 

[Pax]

So, everyone is happy, but Arhys dies...Well, shit xD