*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[cramx3]

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.

Might be true.  The thing is even a lot of the heavy songs have really soft parts and the album lengths are quite different so hard to compare.

[Kotowboy]

DT need to get more jazzy again.

Lines In The Sand is one of their top 3 songs for me.

[nikatapi]

DT need to get more jazzy again.

Lines In The Sand is one of their top 3 songs for me.

So much this. I love their jazzy moments.

[YOWspotter]

He didn't give anyone the one-finger salute, you're just seeing what you want to see.

Actually it's quite the contrary, I saw what I was afraid of seeing, not what I wanted to see.

His post was spot on, given that it was directly in response to people literally saying that The Astonishing is not metal enough, and many of them doing so in a very disrespectful way.  If you cannot distinguish between those kinds of posts, on one hand, vs. those respectfully saying they are attracted to DT's more metal side, then the fact that you completely missed Jordan's point is on you rather than him.

I'll concede guilt in that I didn't read the interview from which the quotation was extracted; I merely read it as posted in this thread and took it as if to say "we're shedding the metal side of DT as we mature, so tough luck if that's what you like".

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

This is coming from a metal fan, someone who got into DT because of the heaviness, but it is their melody that really keeps me into them.  The melodies are awesome on this album, my biggest problem with the album is that some of the best melodies aren't repeated.

This pretty much sums why I got into DT and remain so.  It also expresses some of my feelings about this record.

[Enigmachine]

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.

Might be true.  The thing is even a lot of the heavy songs have really soft parts and the album lengths are quite different so hard to compare.

Yeah, good point. I guess there are more extremes in TA as well as more frequent dynamic changes that skew the perception of heaviness. It's not really an issue to me, though.

[rumborak]

As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.

[pcs90]

As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.

I'm honestly a little surprised they didn't just use stock sound effects for that section.

[Prog Snob]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.

[AngelBack]

Couldn't agree more Progsnob...

[YOWspotter]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.

You may want to read a few posts above where I concluded my thoughts on JR's comment.  The post you've quoted has been superseded by that one.

[Prog Snob]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.

You may want to read a few posts above where I concluded my thoughts on JR's comment.  The post you've quoted has been superseded by that one.

I may want to? What if I don't want to?     Kidding, of course. My comment wasn't necessarily just directed at you. It was also an overall statement to everyone who thinks DT owes them something, or just anyone in general who makes caustic and disrespectful comments.

[Darkstarshades]

They should have invited Mike Portnoy for My Last Farewell

"Hear my last farewell!!"
"ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRHH!!"

[erwinrafael]

So basically what JR is saying is that they have matured to the point that they are just making music, not really mindful of the labels or the genre of the music they are making.

[fischermasamune]

So the crying voices in Losing Faythe are not stock? To whom the voices belong? Was that been established?

[rumborak]

They can not possibly be stock. I mean, they're bad, really bad.

[erwinrafael]

They can not possibly be stock. I mean, they're bad, really bad.

Yeah, that was a bit amateurish. I was also underwhelmed with the grunts during the Arhys and Daryus swordfight, although it does sound like how they would do it in theatrical settings.

But the sound of Faythe after she was stabbed, that gets a  for me.

[nicmos]

They should have invited Mike Portnoy for My Last Farewell

"Hear my last farewell!!"
"ROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRHH!!"

seriously though, that would have worked better.  first time I heard that scream, I thought he was killing himself.

[jammindude]

My review of The Astonishing.    In a nutshell...I draw comparisons to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

https://youtu.be/qH6C3gaIsjc

[Enigmachine]

My review of The Astonishing.    In a nutshell...I draw comparisons to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

https://youtu.be/qH6C3gaIsjc

Cool review. The comparison is quite apt when you put it like you have.

[emtee]

Spun this again this morning while on a long road trip visiting customers. Don't get me wrong I really like the first part of Disc 1...
really like it, but from the point of A Life Left Behind all the way through Disc 2 this is masterpiece level music. Yes I finally said it.
The twisted part of me feels like a traitor for saying that because I'm such an MP fanboy but holy crap, everything I've ever loved about
DT is represented in that run of songs and SO many new and different things also. I'm still not going to rate this but my sense
now is that this will be up there right beside the top 3 DT albums.

[thosava]

I have found The Astonishing to be a masterpiece, but still "exhausting" in a way. I have only been able to listen to it all the way through about 6 times. I just don't feel the desire to listen to it on repeat like so many other albums when they are new. I don't believe this is an album that will wear out for me, as i won't listen to it so much that i get sick of it. I still have to listen to it a few more times before the concert in two weeks. I feel like i want to be a bit more familiar with it before seing the show!

[rab7]

I have found The Astonishing to be a masterpiece, but still "exhausting" in a way. I have only been able to listen to it all the way through about 6 times. I just don't feel the desire to listen to it on repeat like so many other albums when they are new.

Totally agree. I even have to stop and take a quick break between acts.

[Kotowboy]

I don't think I could listen to the entire thing in one go.

[zmazar]

So now that I've finally just sat down and listened to it with decent headphones a couple of times (rather than just blasting it in my car) I've realized that there are actually a lot more references to the NOMACS subtly through several of the other tracks.  Seemingly just watching everything unravel.  The musical themes through each major section (designated by NOMACS) is so well done.  This album took a while for me to really start enjoying, but I got there.

I've also come to realize that Our New World just drives me crazy.  I feel like the plot really doesn't get advanced that much.  I wish they just removed it, and replaced it with The Astonishing.  Then just end with Power Down.  I feel like that would have been an epic ending.   

[Kotowboy]

Remove Our New World ?

That's silly !

You're silly ! !

[fischermasamune]

I think that the way to (hypothetically) improve The Astonishing is to actually add more music rather than remove songs.

[pcs90]

I think that the way to (hypothetically) improve The Astonishing is to actually add more music rather than remove songs.

Agreed.

[Dream Team]

Remove Our New World ?

That's silly !

You're silly ! !

For sure. I wish that song was longer.

[smegolas]

As much as I appreciate James being able to go to town on the material, I still think a female singer would have enriched the album immensely. Especially for the weeping intro of Losing Faythe, where clearly a guy is trying to sound like a woman.

I was thinking exactly this last night, but in terms of the live show.  It's going to be a bear for James to do all of this night after night, so I wonder if they would hire someone for the female parts?  Like maybe that Teresa girl from the SFAM concert, she was great.  I really hope they do this even though I won't get to see it as they are not coming to Vancouver 

Also, I finally sat down last night and listened to it all while reading the story and the lyrics.  The story is pretty decent until the end when it falls flat.  And what the heck is the point of the NOMACS anyways?  It just kinda feels forced.  I wish they got some professional help to smooth things out a bit.  Nowhere near as good as the ending of SFAM which is epic.

But whatever, its really about the music.  And I think I am now prepared to put TA neck and neck with SFAM as their best album ever, ahead of 6DOIT.  I think the music may be a little better on TA, but the story is better on SFAM.

[MirrorMask]

They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

[lovethedrake]

I think the issue with the story is that we all expected an epic showdown between Ravenskill and TGNE and all we got was a couple Shakespearean tragedies.  So after 133 minutes of epic music and an intricate storyline to go with it, it sort of just... ends. 

I love Our new World.... I think it's great.  I think the song "The Astonishing" is kind of pointless to be honest.  As an epic closer and the title track I wish this song would have actually been epic rather than just a brief showcase for each character.

Honestly, for me its really the stretch from Hymn of a Thousand Words to the end of the album that keeps it from being in my top 3.  Hymn is my least favorite song on the album, our new world is awesome but it comes with a slightly underwhelming resolution of the story, and The Astonishing is somewhat of an afterthought and obviously has nothing on Finally Free IMO.

So... TA sits at #4 in my rankings.  Not too shabby considering nothing has penetrated my top 6 since SDOIT.

[dream416]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

That's not what he's saying. You're completely misconstruing the meaning behind his words. He is completely within his right to say what he said, and it's well within reason. The members of the band don't owe us anything except the music THEY want to make. If this was a complete all out metal album, another group would be complaining about the sound. All Dream Theater can do is make music they're passionate about and either we're going to either like it or not. This disrespectful commentary coming from some people is uncalled for. It's one thing to not like it, but when it becomes insults and cheap shots, grow the fuck up.

+1000.......This exactly.

[lovethedrake]

Also, don't mistake this for "they should have done this, they should have done that" fodder.   I absolutely love the album, these are just very nitpicky things that I think would have made it even better than the awesome piece of art that it already is.

[Prog Snob]

They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

I heard he's going to don his makeup from the Winter Rose days.

[smegolas]

They've already confirmed that no additional musicians or singers will be with them, so James is gonna go Faythe on us!

OK but they could still pull a rabbit out of the hat for the NY DVD show!  Teresa as Faythe, MP as Nafaryus, Kevin Moore as Xander!