Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[425]

A Change of Seasons says hi...

I was not counting that, since the EP is basically ACOS and some bonus cover songs. It's not properly an album. Wither isn't a title song either, despite the existence of the Wither EP.

[The Letter M]

A Change of Seasons says hi...

I was not counting that, since the EP is basically ACOS and some bonus cover songs. It's not properly an album. Wither isn't a title song either, despite the existence of the Wither EP.

Having title track or title song isn't something DT normally do anyway, and I believe "Octavarium" was the one exception to their usual album-naming rule. Most of the time, the album name comes from song lyrics (such as the first three albums and SFAM), or it comes from past ideas or titles that stem from the studio sessions (FII and TOT, kind of), or just describe the over-all feel and theme of the album (SDOIT, SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE).

If there's a title track this time around, it'll only be the second time they've had one, so it'd be neat, but I won't expect it. If there is, I hope it's the big epic!!!

-Marc.

[Rodni Demental]

Having title track or title song isn't something DT normally do anyway, and I believe "Octavarium" was the one exception to their usual album-naming rule. Most of the time, the album name comes from song lyrics (such as the first three albums and SFAM), or it comes from past ideas or titles that stem from the studio sessions (FII and TOT, kind of), or just describe the over-all feel and theme of the album (SDOIT, SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE).

If there's a title track this time around, it'll only be the second time they've had one, so it'd be neat

It certainly isn't something they do often, but wouldn't 6DOIT count as being a title track as well as describing the album?

[The Letter M]

Having title track or title song isn't something DT normally do anyway, and I believe "Octavarium" was the one exception to their usual album-naming rule. Most of the time, the album name comes from song lyrics (such as the first three albums and SFAM), or it comes from past ideas or titles that stem from the studio sessions (FII and TOT, kind of), or just describe the over-all feel and theme of the album (SDOIT, SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE).

If there's a title track this time around, it'll only be the second time they've had one, so it'd be neat

It certainly isn't something they do often, but wouldn't 6DOIT count as being a title track as well as describing the album?

*FACEPALM*

Okay, momentary lapse of memory, I forgot that SDOIT had a title track. Ya know, the big track, the huge epic, the band's longest single piece. UGH. Sorry folks, I'm dumb.

But yes, so in TWO cases, the band has had two title tracks, and both were huge epics at the end of their respective albums (one had eight parts, the other had five...heh heh).

-Marc.

[Progmetty]

I think you were right the first time but I'm in the minority in that old argument.

[Calvin6s]

I will start to worry if the Collector's Edition comes with a 20 sided die.

[BlobVanDam]

I will start to worry if the Collector's Edition comes with a 20 sided die.

[The Curious Orange]

in iran our calendar is persian. we are in 1394.and u r in 2015. iranian analyse the calendar from rounding the earth around the sun.

As we do in the West.

[noxon]

With regards to the title... I think the problem many people have with it, is that it's not a noun. "Astonishing" in the dictionary is only described as an adjective. Whereas "The Happening" or "The Awakening" or countless of other verbs turned into nouns is described as such in the dictionary. "The Astonishing" sounds off, just like "The Amazing" or "The Spectactular" or "The Incredible" sounds off. You're anticipating a second word, because the object to which the description is to be attached to is missing. (And why is it that all of the examples i just made are like right out of the Marvel dictionary).

[lonestar]

I will start to worry if the Collector's Edition comes with a 20 sided die.

[The Stray Seed]

I will start to cry tears of joy if the Collector's Edition comes with a 20 sided die.

Fixed that for me!

[ariich]

With regards to the title... I think the problem many people have with it, is that it's not a noun. "Astonishing" in the dictionary is only described as an adjective. Whereas "The Happening" or "The Awakening" or countless of other verbs turned into nouns is described as such in the dictionary. "The Astonishing" sounds off, just like "The Amazing" or "The Spectactular" or "The Incredible" sounds off. You're anticipating a second word, because the object to which the description is to be attached to is missing. (And why is it that all of the examples i just made are like right out of the Marvel dictionary).

Is it really only described as an adjective? And if so, in which dictionary? Because at the very least it should also be a verb - to astonish. Even Internet Explorer spellchecker knows that.

And it it's a very, then it can be a noun, just like those others. The only reason they already appear as nouns in the dictionary is that they are already used in that context.

[The Stray Seed]

'We thought we were hopeless, but then the unbelievable happened.'
It's called 'substantivation of adjectives'.

Whole process for "the astonishing" is:

1. Present participle becomes adjective (adjectivation of participle)
2. Adjective becomes noun (substantivation of adjective)

[noxon]

Is it really only described as an adjective? And if so, in which dictionary? Because at the very least it should also be a verb - to astonish. Even Internet Explorer spellchecker knows that.

And it it's a very, then it can be a noun, just like those others. The only reason they already appear as nouns in the dictionary is that they are already used in that context.

"Astonish" is a seperate word, or rather, seperate entry in the dictionary. And yes, it's a verb. A verb can be turned into an adjective or a noun by putting a suffix on the verb like "-al" or "-ence" or "-ing" or several others (to deny - denial, to depart - departure) etc. Not all verbs are turned into nouns, and not all verbs are turned into adjectives, even though you theoretically could.

Look at the difference:
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/happening?s=t

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/astonishing?s=t

Whereas "The Happening" uses -ing in the following manner: "a suffix of nouns formed from verbs, expressing the action of the verb or its result, product, material, etc. ( the art of building; a new building; cotton wadding).", "Astonishing" uses the -ing in this manner: "a suffix forming the present participle of verbs ( walking; thinking), such participles being often used as participial adjectives: warring factions."

While you can create whichever words you want in your language, it's the common usage that decides how it is interpreted. "The Astonishing" is not in common use. It's not inherently understood what it even means. "The Happening" IS in common use, and people knows that it refers to an event. "The Happening" is not commonly referred to as an adjective either, so there's no potential double meaning. When people come across "The Astonishing"; it's almost exclusively an adjective. It's jarring, just as "The thinking" would be jarring, or "The walking", or "the running" - and yet, all three of THOSE examples DO have a defintion for the noun counterpart of the word. "The astonishing" is more akin to "The amazing" - it has no established use as a noun, and in fact, you would not say "the amazing" even if you can, you would say "the amazement".

[Bertielee]

'We thought we were hopeless, but then the unbelievable happened.'
It's called 'substantivation of adjectives'.

Whole process for "the astonishing" is:

1. Present participle becomes adjective (adjectivation of participle)
2. Adjective becomes noun (substantivation of adjective)

Yes, you're right. That's why astonishing used as a noun doesn't bother me in the slightest.

B.Lee

[noxon]

Also, no need to get so defensive - I'm just describing a possible reason as to why people find the title hard to digest. I get what Dream Theater wants to accomplish with it, but I also get why people find it off-putting.

[Bertielee]

'We thought we were hopeless, but then the unbelievable happened.'
It's called 'substantivation of adjectives'.

Whole process for "the astonishing" is:

1. Present participle becomes adjective (adjectivation of participle)
2. Adjective becomes noun (substantivation of adjective)

Yes, you're right. That's why astonishing used as a noun doesn't bother me in the slightest.

B.Lee


PS : Quick, another update! We are going crazy over the use of language because of boredom!

[Kotowboy]

I will start to worry if the Collector's Edition comes with a 20 sided die.

Dodecavarium!!!

[BlackInk]

It honestly never even occured to me to think of it as anything other than a 'verb-ing', since that is the obvious way it's presented in all the texts or images I've seen.

[BlobVanDam]

I think it's good that it's not a common usage of the word, because that makes it unique to DT, rather than something generic like "the happening", or some other word that would be unoriginal and cliche. Given the expected importance of "The Astonishing" to the story, it's good that it will be unique.
It reminds me of Octavarium. Weird sounding word with some random unrelated origin beforehand, but now it's just second nature to us DT fans. I don't see the point about complaining about a name which we have no context for yet.

[Kotowboy]

Yes.

" The Astonishing " is a shit load better than something obviously proggy or concepty and cliche as all hell like : " Rise of The Chosen One "

[The Stray Seed]

I think it's good that it's not a common usage of the word, because that makes it unique to DT, rather than something generic like "the happening", or some other word that would be unoriginal and cliche. Given the expected importance of "The Astonishing" to the story, it's good that it will be unique.
It reminds me of Octavarium. Weird sounding word with some random unrelated origin beforehand, but how it's just second nature to us DT fans. I don't see the point about complaining about a name which we have no context for yet.

Beat me to it, totally agree with you! Groundbreaking right from the title!

"The astonishing" is more akin to "The amazing" - it has no established use as a noun, and in fact, you would not say "the amazing" even if you can, you would say "the amazement".

But then it would have a different meaning. Let me give an example: though they're both nouns, "the astonishment" is not the same as "the astonishing". The first defines a feeling, the second describes something different and has a much wider, less defined meaning. For example, it could be related to an astonishing thing or person. "The astonishing" could stand for "the astonishing one", while "the astonishment" could not.

[ariich]

Also, no need to get so defensive - I'm just describing a possible reason as to why people find the title hard to digest. I get what Dream Theater wants to accomplish with it, but I also get why people find it off-putting.

Fair enough, I don't feel particularly defensive about DT's use of it or anything, but I interpreted your post as implying that it was incorrect because the word wasn't a noun, period. So apologies for that.

The truth is, in English there are basically no rules. So yeah, something might be unusual to some people, but there's nothing wrong with it.

[lucasembarbosa]

This thread is eerily quiet...

[Kotowboy]

It's astonishing

[lucasembarbosa]

For now I'll call the album: The Anxieting


Seriously... What can we expect from now on? Weekly updates on the Astonishing web page? A sudden info avalanche?

[noxon]

Well, there are 8 spots on the site. 1 spot has been revealed. The album will (according to the swedish venue) be released by the end of january. DT12 had its first single out aug 5 with a release of sept 23. ADTOE had its first single june 29th with a release of sept 12. BCSL had its first single out may 12th with the album being released june 23rd. SC had its first single apr 27 with the album out june 4th.

Judging purely by history, I think we'll see most information having been revealed within 6 weeks of release, so if the date the swedish venue quotes is accurate, I think we'll have a single in about a month from now, maybe earlier. And I'm just speculating here, but I think most information on the website will be complete before the single is being released (I would think the single would be one of the final updates, as thats the thing that would draw the utmost attention.

[Mindflux]

Well, there are 8 spots on the site. 1 spot has been revealed. The album will (according to the swedish venue) be released by the end of january. DT12 had its first single out aug 5 with a release of sept 23. ADTOE had its first single june 29th with a release of sept 12. BCSL had its first single out may 12th with the album being released june 23rd. SC had its first single apr 27 with the album out june 4th.

There are hidden arrows on the site to page through the characters, there are presumably 8-infinity slots unless they are just remnants from a template they used.

[hefdaddy42]

Noxon is completely right in his breakdown of why "The Astonishing" is so weird.  It is akin to "The Amazing" or "The Wonderful" or "The Spectacular."  It is a completely non-normal usage.

But that's cool.

[erwinrafael]

It's like The Majestic. The non-normal usage gives it some novelty and makes it appear special.

In the English language, the use of an adjective as a noun is actually common. The powerful. The brave. The bold. It's just a matter of getting institutinalized in usage.

[Marion Crane]

I love the title. Don't see why people have an issue with it

[bosk1]

I love the title. Don't see why people have an issue with it

This is what DTF is. This is what we do. YA HURD!?

[Kotowboy]

I've thought the title sounded cool from Day 1.

[BlackInk]

Me too. It doesn't blow my mind, but it's perfectly functional.

[BlobVanDam]

I've thought the title sounded cool from Day 1.

You hipster.