Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[erwinrafael]

I am also excited that the tour would debut  on my birthday. Although the chances of me ever seeing them live in my lifetime is nil. 

[cramx3]

I missed all the discussion of leaked material, but whatever, this is what I thought was going to happen once the tour got out, double disc rock opera.  Im excited, the band has yet to let me down!    I just hope they bring the rock opera to the states.

[DragonAttack]

Just wish whoever did the clever satire to the middle section of BoRhap would repost it.  Sadly, I saved the link to show the wife (which, obviously, no longer works) instead of copying it.

Thanks in advance.

[the wife works fine]

[CodyWanKenobi]

I'm super confident that this album is going to kick major ass.

[BlackInk]

Many people here seem to not find lyrics important at all, even to the point of "not even listening to them, so it doesn't even matter". I'm the opposite, I find lyrics to be super important. Which is one big reason I didn't like DT12 and BC&SL. Bad lyrics in music is like bad sound in a movie or video, no matter how good the rest is, it'll give me an overwhelming sense of amateurism.

[SwedishGoose]

Lyrics to me is like the icing on the Cake... fantastic icing and terrible cake will not be touched, fantastic cake and terrible icing will be consumed ignoring the icing but when both are fantastic that is where the real pleasure lies...

Let's hope for an astonishing cake with astonishing icing..... they can do it

[Kotowboy]

Here's what I rate as important for my enjoyment in an album :

1. Songs
2. Production
3. Lyrics

[MirrorMask]

For me is:

- Songs
- Lyrics
- Production

While I appreciate a good sound, I'm kinda hearing impaired when it comes to these very articulate details I always see debated about the production, so I'm kinda happy to be "not educated" in this sense 'cause I can enjoy any album without killing myself over the sound  I understand many people have the means to pay a proper attention to that, I'm just happy to not be one of them.

[BlackInk]

To me, "songs" and "lyrics" would be the same thing. The lyrics and vocals are as much part of the song as anything the guitar or any other instrument does.

[Train of Naught]

For me is:

- Songs
- Lyrics
- Production

While I appreciate a good sound, I'm kinda hearing impaired when it comes to these very articulate details I always see debated about the production, so I'm kinda happy to be "not educated" in this sense 'cause I can enjoy any album without killing myself over the sound  I understand many people have the means to pay a proper attention to that, I'm just happy to not be one of them.

I feel the same way, don't really get annoyed with it quickly. Lyrics pretty much the same, once you've listened to Seventh Wonder's Mercy Falls you will never complain about cheesy lyrics again.

[Edson Wilton]

To me, "songs" and "lyrics" would be the same thing. The lyrics and vocals are as much part of the song as anything the guitar or any other instrument does.

Yeap! I agreed!

[Kotowboy]

Although - some times an album can fail on all counts and still be somewhat enjoyable.

St. Anger has terrible songs, production and lyrics but I still enjoy it somewhat

[hefdaddy42]

To me, "songs" and "lyrics" would be the same thing. The lyrics and vocals are as much part of the song as anything the guitar or any other instrument does.

Agreed.

But I didn't find any awful lyrics on DT12.

[Nick]

Hey guys, just a quick heads up, my radio show has started a new monthly podcast to discuss musical topics, and the lead topic on the first one was the new Dream Theater album and PR campaign. You can check it out below, thanks.

https://wpapu.com/ep-324-november-music-mixer/

Hello everyone, a very special When Prog and Power Unite podcast went live this morning. It's called the November Music Mixer, and instead of being primarily music, it features all three contributors to the show talking about various musical topics.

On the docket for this debut mixer is the new album news and PR campaign from Dream Theater​, who appear to be going all out on the new album and tour. We talk about the expected return to heavier material from Swedish band Pain of Salvation​. We also discuss the recent appearance of Ghost B.C​ on The Late Show with Steven Colbert, as well as the latest album from Trivium​, Silence in the Snow. Finally we went back to talk about the huge new album from Iron Maiden​, and to discuss some bad concert experiences.

[MirrorMask]

Do you guys think that the theatrical nature of the album will allow for more unusual and story-oriented structures for songs? I'd like to think the vast majority of DT's fans praise Finally Free for the awesome masterpiece it is, and one of the things I like about that song is its one of a kind structure, sure there are verses and choruses, but then goes off the tangent with the One Last Time reprise, the climatic ending, it has acoustic moments both with piano and guitar etc etc... I feel the song structure serves the song lyrics, and not the other way around.

I'd love for a song with many twists and turns, very "cinematic", and also other weird / unusual stuff here and there: a short piano piece, like Vacant or Through My Words, an acoustic song, a song that shuffles around its structure to better suit the lyrics... as many as variety as possible, I'd love for them to have on this record an unusual song as Empire of the Clouds was for Iron Maiden, or Slow Love Slow for Nightwish on their Imaginaerum album.

I actually want to feel immersed in a story, like SFAM with the (short and to the point) spoken parts, not a random collection of songs that happen to tell a story with their lyrics... if a concept must be, I want them to go musically all the way! 

[Rickharris1011]

But I didn't find any awful lyrics on DT12.
[/quote]

+1 sometimes a bit cheesy - but nobody is smoking on a pipe, praising the dark master or burning souls.

There's usually an element of cheesiness to any "rock opera/concept album" Its ridiculously hard to do.  Think of all that must be accomplished:

a. write a story that is compelling and interesting enough for 1-2 hours worth of music - that's hard - so many "rock operas" are very derivative - musicians aren't novelists.
b. set it to music - you might have a great lyric, but if it doesn't quite fit with the meter/melody - it can be awful (does anyone else cringe when JL sings "dose of reality" in HTF)
c. Have most of the songs stand out on their own without seeming weird.  Goodbye Kiss always struck me as a perfect part to the whole, but on its own..."why is JL singing like a woman"

As much as I love classics like the Wall, Lamb lies down on Broadway, Operation Mindcrime and  Tommy - they all fall into cheesiness at times.

[hadi-persian]

king darius.the king cyrus.the king of kings. whats ur idea about the making persian scales and classical opera together?i say to it (high Astonishing Colossal)

[King Postwhore]

kingshmegland

[jakepriest]

(does anyone else cringe when JL sings "dose of reality" in HTF)

No.

[hefdaddy42]

king darius.the king cyrus.the king of kings. whats ur idea about the making persian scales and classical opera together?i say to it (high Astonishing Colossal)

What?

[Train of Naught]

Well it's not the standard first DTF post format that's for sure.

[TAC]

kingshmegland

Astonishing.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I've always loved and supported most everything DT has done.  That being said, I'm a little apprehensive with this one.  The theme, from what I've seen so far, seems to be a futuristic/sci-fi based story.  Being a huge Sci-fi fan I'm afraid I might be a bit more critical of the story line and less tolerant of any cheese factors.  Also, reading the first emails, it really on the surface reeks of a 2112-ish theme.  I HOPE it only seems that way, and any similarities stop there and major comparisons can't be drawn.  A couple of things that make me less apprehensive are the successes of SFAM and 6DOIT as DT theme driven albums.  They've proven they can tell a story effectively.  In the Sci-fi genre, I think it's a bit tougher.  I would rather have a well done single concept album than a cheese filled double album.  Here's to hoping my gut is wrong on this one.  Cause if it IS... then we're gonna get something spectacular.  I do also like the way RR seems to be marketing the work.

[ariich]

It's more dystopian than sci-fi.

[mikidream]

I am still wondering how it is possible that they screwed up so much with the promotion of the album... one thing is if something leaks from someone that illegally stole or copied materials... but I guess that DT themselves sent the sample of the poster to the venues... and the other thing came from the artist himself... so I am quite speechless...

Said that... as we I love them, I understand and respect Bosk's position... it is just these things weren't real leaks IMHO, just lack of attention from who is in charge of this campaign... quite disappointing I have to say... it was very anticlimactic...

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I've always loved and supported most everything DT has done.  That being said, I'm a little apprehensive with this one.  The theme, from what I've seen so far, seems to be a futuristic/sci-fi based story.  Being a huge Sci-fi fan I'm afraid I might be a bit more critical of the story line and less tolerant of any cheese factors.  Also, reading the first emails, it really on the surface reeks of a 2112-ish theme.  I HOPE it only seems that way, and any similarities stop there and major comparisons can't be drawn.  A couple of things that make me less apprehensive are the successes of SFAM and 6DOIT as DT theme driven albums.  They've proven they can tell a story effectively.  In the Sci-fi genre, I think it's a bit tougher.  I would rather have a well done single concept album than a cheese filled double album.  Here's to hoping my gut is wrong on this one.  Cause if it IS... then we're gonna get something spectacular.  I do also like the way RR seems to be marketing the work.

I have a feeling that if you don't like cheese, you're not going to like TA. That said, if you embrace the cheese and go all-out nerd, it will probably be spectacular. Whatever the case, it's going to be different and memorable, which is cool.

[CrimsonSunrise]

It's more dystopian than sci-fi.

OK.. you're a bigger, more articulate nerd than me   

I have a feeling that if you don't like cheese, you're not going to like TA. That said, if you embrace the cheese and go all-out nerd, it will probably be spectacular. Whatever the case, it's going to be different and memorable, which is cool.

I can handle some cheese, but like someone else stated.... as long as it's not embarrassing...   And don't get me wrong, I will embrace it.  I want it to be something I can cherish for years, not a case of . I just hope it's not a wasted opportunity for the band.  You only get a chance or two at something this unique in a bands career.  I would guess all of us as DT supporters would like something so frikken epic that we could turn to the naysayers and go.."See!!"

[Tomislav95]

I'm just listening to Octavarium (song) and I think that kind of music would fit in sci-fi/fantasy concept. Maybe boosted with JRs apps/instruments.

[20th Century Icon]

Many people here seem to not find lyrics important at all, even to the point of "not even listening to them, so it doesn't even matter". I'm the opposite, I find lyrics to be super important. Which is one big reason I didn't like DT12 and BC&SL. Bad lyrics in music is like bad sound in a movie or video, no matter how good the rest is, it'll give me an overwhelming sense of amateurism.

If lyrics are super important to you, why are you a fan of DT? That hasn't been their strong suit since Kevin Moore left. The last two albums aren't any worse than their previous efforts, IMO.

[YtseJamittaja]

What if this is the cover art for the new album, just without the "live"? I doubt it but could be...

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I value the music itself (composition, instrumentation, and vocal melodies even) over lyrics more as a result of how I find myself enjoying what I listen to. I can still listen to a song with bad lyrics if the music is interesting to me enough, but I won't be able to get into a song with great lyrics as much if the music isn't as engaging to me.

It's totally fair to point out that lyrics can be seen as simply part of the music, and part of the whole which determines your ultimate opinion on the music in question. I say, why can't we have both?

Off topic, but I find it interesting that so many posters here are predicting that TA will either be one of their best or worst efforts, with no potential middle ground seemingly. I don't understand this at all. It might be one of their most ambitious projects, sure, but what's to stop it from being middle-brow DT material if that so happens to be the case? I can totally believe that it may have some elements that work and others that don't. Point is, we have no way of knowing since we've heard zero actual material from the album.

[TL]

I've always loved and supported most everything DT has done.  That being said, I'm a little apprehensive with this one.  The theme, from what I've seen so far, seems to be a futuristic/sci-fi based story.  Being a huge Sci-fi fan I'm afraid I might be a bit more critical of the story line and less tolerant of any cheese factors.  Also, reading the first emails, it really on the surface reeks of a 2112-ish theme.  I HOPE it only seems that way, and any similarities stop there and major comparisons can't be drawn.  A couple of things that make me less apprehensive are the successes of SFAM and 6DOIT as DT theme driven albums.  They've proven they can tell a story effectively.  In the Sci-fi genre, I think it's a bit tougher.  I would rather have a well done single concept album than a cheese filled double album.  Here's to hoping my gut is wrong on this one.  Cause if it IS... then we're gonna get something spectacular.  I do also like the way RR seems to be marketing the work.

I have a feeling that if you don't like cheese, you're not going to like TA. That said, if you embrace the cheese and go all-out nerd, it will probably be spectacular. Whatever the case, it's going to be different and memorable, which is cool.

I know that for me, it will really depend on the flavor of that cheese.
When done right, cheese can make for some amazing, incredibly fun and enjoyable music. If it misses the mark though (say, if it takes itself too seriously instead of embracing the cheesiness) it can be a trainwreck. I'm definitely hoping this record ends up being the former.

[Train of Naught]

Off topic, but I find it interesting that so many posters here are predicting that TA will either be one of their best or worst efforts, with no potential middle ground seemingly. I don't understand this at all. It might be one of their most ambitious projects, sure, but what's to stop it from being middle-brow DT material if that so happens to be the case? I can totally believe that it may have some elements that work and others that don't. Point is, we have no way of knowing since we've heard zero actual material from the album.

Yes, I don't get this either, I mean, especially for a DT album, where very rarely something is universally considered their best or their worst, maybe a few exceptions (think of I&W, WDADU SFAM, something like that).

[Zydar]

What if this is the cover art for the new album, just without the "live"? I doubt it but could be...

Yeah I've pondered that too.

[Crow]

it'll either be great or bad because of how grandiose it is. either it'll be a huge success or crash and burn miserably. even if the music is middling in quality, it has a lot of hype to live up to because of the concept.

also a double album of middling music is way worse than a single disc of middling music