DT12 is...?

[Kotowboy]

Better than DT12:
I&W
TOT
ADTOE

Worse than DT12:
WDADU
FII
8VM
SC
BC&SL

Not even close.

Sure it is.

Nope.

Octavarium >        DT12

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Not by a long shot. 8V is one of DT's most inconsistent albums, and has a more mediocre track-listing with the exception of the title track, especially in comparison to DT12.

[bl5150]

It'll be interesting to see where they sit on the list being compiled by 425 .............I'd rate DT12 much higher than Octavarium.

[jammindude]

I have been a fan since IAW was first released.  Followed every up and down.

Octavarium is DT's greatest achievement...bar none.   To this day, when I am in a DT mood, I reach for 8V as an ultimate start to finish DT listening experience even before I will reach for IAW, Awake, SFAM or SDOIT. 

DT12 is fantastic, and the best album they've released since 8V...but I don't think they will ever top 8V. 

[BlobVanDam]

Octavarium >        DT12

The only mistake with this is not adding more arrows. Not even a contest.

[Kotowboy]

Not by a long shot. 8V is one of DT's most inconsistent albums, and has a more mediocre track-listing with the exception of the title track, especially in comparison to DT12.

I think Surrender to Reason & Along For The Ride are some of DT's weakest songs and Illumination Theory is one of their poorest epics.

[Prog Snob]

Not by a long shot. 8V is one of DT's most inconsistent albums, and has a more mediocre track-listing with the exception of the title track, especially in comparison to DT12.

I think Surrender to Reason & Along For The Ride are some of DT's weakest songs and Illumination Theory is one of their poorest epics.

I think you should suffer a Starbucks coma.   

[Mladen]

Had another band released it, it would have been really good. For DT standards, it's pretty average.

[hefdaddy42]

Not by a long shot. 8V is one of DT's most inconsistent albums, and has a more mediocre track-listing with the exception of the title track, especially in comparison to DT12.

This completely.

If the title track weren't on Octavarium, I would never ever listen to it. 

[Zook]

DT12 is a great album. I really enjoy it, but every bit of the criticism on the production is well warranted. It just doesn't sound good. In fact, it's only slightly better than WDADU in terms of production. That's not an exaggeration.

[rumborak]

Not by a long shot. 8V is one of DT's most inconsistent albums, and has a more mediocre track-listing with the exception of the title track, especially in comparison to DT12.

This completely.

If the title track weren't on Octavarium, I would never ever listen to it.

Same here. It's *the* album for me that exemplifies the "saved by the epic" stretch they had for a while.

[Scorpion]

I like about half of Octavarium.

The title tracks pulls it down, if anything.

[Kotowboy]

I like about half of Octavarium.

The title tracks pulls it down, if anything.

O_o

[sfam2112]

I like about half of Octavarium.

The title tracks pulls it down, if anything.

I agree.

[Kotowboy]

I like about half of Octavarium.

The title tracks pulls it down, if anything.

I agree.

O_O

[Scorpion]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

[BlobVanDam]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

You just described IT.

[hefdaddy42]

He didn't describe either one of them.

In fact, I don't think it describes any of their epics.  Not sure what is so boring.

[Scorpion]

I think that the entirety of Razor's Edge is just a huge letdown after the amazing climax at the end of Intervals, and the guitar solo is nothing special.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, if that's how you feel.

Doesn't compute for me.  I think it is an absolutely stellar payoff, no letdown at all.

[rumborak]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

Hey. Don't diss Kansas.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Although I like Razor's Edge, I do feel that the end of Intervals makes for a much stronger climax.

[puppyonacid]

Razor's edge is epic and I think one of JPs finest moments.

Octavarium is a decent album. In fact the only song that pulls it down the Answer Lies Within which is pretty much the worst DT song in the history of everything.

I still can't make my mind up about DTXII. I can't get past the god awful production/mixing.

[Scorpion]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

Hey. Don't diss Kansas.

I'LL DISS KANSAS ALL I WANT DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO

In all seriousness, I was never too big on Kansas, so I'm afraid I don't know which song you're talking about.

[TAC]

The Raxor's Edge section is fantastic and ITPOE, TMOLS, and IT have each failed miserably in their endings.

[rumborak]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

Hey. Don't diss Kansas.

I'LL DISS KANSAS ALL I WANT DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO

In all seriousness, I was never too big on Kansas, so I'm afraid I don't know which song you're talking about.

Go to YouTube, listen to Kansas' "The Wall" from 4:16 on. You'll see what I mean

[BlobVanDam]

There's very little if any similarity aside from the very very end.

[rumborak]

I would say from 4:16 on it is virtually identical. Before that of course not.

[BlobVanDam]

If by "virtually" you mean "basically not at all". The only similarity is from 4:35 - 4:40, which does sound very similar.

[rumborak]

Meh. Ever since there was a sizable percentage of DTFers vehemently denying the Tchaikovsky part in IT (and only shut up when Eren himself acknowledged it), I have given up on trying to convince people of similarities. If you don't hear it, oh well.

[Evermind]

Razor's Edge is very strong, in my opinion, and I love ITPOE ending, epic as hell.

Even the epics I don't really like, such as SDOIT and IT both have great endings. DT knows how to finish their longer songs right.

[Prog Snob]

I would say from 4:16 on it is virtually identical. Before that of course not.

I don't think it's "identical" but I definitely hear strong similarities. Especially the last notes of the song.  That sounds exactly like the last few notes of Octavarium.  It makes sense though since throughout that song there are similarities to other bands and references to other things. 

[Kotowboy]

"Hey let's end a decent epic with the most boring finale we could think of! Sounds like a great idea!"

You just described IT.

TRUTH.

[Madman Shepherd]

I would put IT and 8V on par if it weren't for the absolutely terrible Full Circle section.  DT's worst lyrics by far. 

[puppyonacid]

I disagree. A bit cheesy maybe but nowhere near as bad as TcoT