Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[Scorpion]

But apparently, it's different this time.

[Setlist Scotty]

One of the criticisms against DT is that once they had sufficient material to fill a CD (which is basically a double album based on yesteryear's time limits) they stopped writing.

Music isn't like a construction site where after a certain amount of work you can be sure of the quality of the output. I have personally been in the situation of writing songs in a band situation, and there are always the songs that everybody feels have great potential, but even after spending so much time on them, they just don't come together.
In DT's mode of operation, where they stop writing the moment they have enough material, those songs actually end up on the album.

I agree with both these posts. It's why I'd love for them to stay in the studio to develop all the other ideas that they had jammed out to see what might end up being some of their best material. Maybe that might mean economically they'd have to go back to writing in a rehearsal studio and do demos before moving up to the big recording studios - if so, I'm for it.

In a past interview MP told me that there's plenty of ideas that get left on the cutting room floor because they didn't fit in to the songs that they wrote for that writing session, and the vast majority of the time, those ideas are forever forgotten. Two exceptions to that are the heavy riff in TGP (beginning at 1:44) which they came up with during soundcheck on Touring Into Inifinity, and which they couldn't find a place for on SFaM, and IWBY which was mostly written during the ToT writing sessions but was abandoned because it didn't fit with the overall feel of the album. But how many other cool ideas did they develop that never found a "home" simply because they stopped writing once they got roughly 80 minutes of material?

Going back to FII, consider the fact that if Elektra simply accepted the first songs that DT came out with and they stuck to the 80 minute limit, there would be no Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Speak to Me or New Millennium since those songs were written after they already had more than 80 minutes of material, not including Metropolis part II.

[Dani Helios]

^perfect summary.

[cramx3]

But how many other cool ideas did they develop that never found a "home" simply because they stopped writing once they got roughly 80 minutes of material?

Probably all ended up in Raw Dog 

[Lucien]

Music isn't like a construction site where after a certain amount of work you can be sure of the quality of the output.

This also applies to the inverse. Some of my favorite things that I've made myself have taken only a few hours to write. Writing good music isn't always hard work.

[Stadler]

I understand all the points here, but it's not that cut and dry.   It depends on whether DT is trying to put out "80 minutes of the best possible ideas we've had between xx/xx/201x and xx/xx/201x", or whether they have a conceptual idea of what this record is going to sound like and try to get to as close to it as they can.

Allegedly, Gene Simmons is threatening to put out a six-CD box set of all his song ideas that he's had over the years, and while he hasn't mentioned this in a while (it was first mooted around the time of the Kiss box set) his point was, I have all these ideas that either don't fit on a Kiss record, or at that point Paul (or whoever) had something they wanted to say.   Whether any one person thinks those songs on that box set are "better" than what appeared on the various Kiss albums is irrelevant.   The record that came out is the statement the band wanted to make.

I can't help but think that if that riff or that vocal line was SO good, the band would have made it happen.  These are our heroes, in a sense, and I wish we'd trust their judgment more in terms of their output.  This is what they do, for a living.  They have been able to not just make do, but thrive on making music for a living, which we all know is not an easy thing to do.   

[lucasembarbosa]

I have mixed feelings about DT13 being a double album. I was hoping more of an experimental approach to this new album but it seems (appears) that is going to be more of a quantity vs quality approach.

How can anyone make this assumption?  No one has heard anything so how would anyone know what quality the album will be.

I know. My point being is that DT has spent time in the studio since February and finished before this last tour they did. 4 months maybe in the studio? Ever since Systematic, DT seems to try and fill the disc with 70-80 mins of music instead of working on stronger songs. Again, this is my opinion. One of DT's problems in my view is quantity vs quality.

Actually, they started gathering ideas since the beginning of DT12 tour during the soundchecks... That's completely different to entering the studio with a blank page, nothing in mind. The process is much faster and easier.

[Plasmastrike]

I am very excited for this release and love that they're taking so much time to make it

Then again, always excited for new DT. It's DT man

[ariich]

One of the criticisms against DT is that once they had sufficient material to fill a CD (which is basically a double album based on yesteryear's time limits) they stopped writing.

Music isn't like a construction site where after a certain amount of work you can be sure of the quality of the output. I have personally been in the situation of writing songs in a band situation, and there are always the songs that everybody feels have great potential, but even after spending so much time on them, they just don't come together.
In DT's mode of operation, where they stop writing the moment they have enough material, those songs actually end up on the album.

I agree with both these posts. It's why I'd love for them to stay in the studio to develop all the other ideas that they had jammed out to see what might end up being some of their best material. Maybe that might mean economically they'd have to go back to writing in a rehearsal studio and do demos before moving up to the big recording studios - if so, I'm for it.

In a past interview MP told me that there's plenty of ideas that get left on the cutting room floor because they didn't fit in to the songs that they wrote for that writing session, and the vast majority of the time, those ideas are forever forgotten. Two exceptions to that are the heavy riff in TGP (beginning at 1:44) which they came up with during soundcheck on Touring Into Inifinity, and which they couldn't find a place for on SFaM, and IWBY which was mostly written during the ToT writing sessions but was abandoned because it didn't fit with the overall feel of the album. But how many other cool ideas did they develop that never found a "home" simply because they stopped writing once they got roughly 80 minutes of material?

Going back to FII, consider the fact that if Elektra simply accepted the first songs that DT came out with and they stuck to the 80 minute limit, there would be no Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Speak to Me or New Millennium since those songs were written after they already had more than 80 minutes of material, not including Metropolis part II.

While all of this makes sense in theory, one big problem is that nobody agrees on WHICH parts would have been better left out. It has become very clear over the years that pretty much every DT song has some people who love it and some who hate it.

[ResultsMayVary]

Let's complain about the length of the album after we've listened to it. I can't stand the whole "I'm firmly against a double album" when we haven't heard a single note. How can people can so closed minded?

[GasparXR]

Let's complain about the length of the album after we've listened to it. I can't stand the whole "I'm firmly against a double album" when we haven't heard a single note. How can people can so closed minded?

This. Whether or not we will enjoy this album and/or the length of it remains to be seen. It could very well either be too short or too long or just the perfect length, even if it's a double album. Plus, there could be other reasons why the album is taking longer. One reason we already know is that there was a summer festival tour partway through. The rest could simply be that they spent more time on it, reflecting on the stuff they've already written much like when they wrote for Images and Words and they had songs on the shelf for a few years. Or, the music is already done and they're simply busy preparing other things for the album, like special packaging (like with Steven Wilson's Hand Cannot Erase album). Who the hell knows? Speculation is really fun (and we at DTF know this! )but jumping to conclusions and then complaining about them is a bit unhealthy for the fan experience.

[Kotowboy]

duh it's TOTES obvious.

1.A Dramatic Turn Of Events was Images and Words again.

2.DT12 was dark and heavy like AWAKE. both have 9 tracks if you count AMBI as one "suite" or "song"

3.DT13 is going to be the double album that Falling Into Infinity was originally supposed to be.


ITS BLATES MATE !!!

[CDrice]

duh it's TOTES obvious.

2.DT12 was dark and heavy like AWAKE. both have 9 tracks if you count AMBI as one "suite" or "song"

It goes deeper than that. The second song of both album is a melodic riff-driven heavy metal track. It's followed by a more pop-ish hard rock track. Then you have the instrumental. After that you have the second longest track on the album. The third to last song on both albums has lyrics by John Myung. And both albums end with a piano driven section.

You know what that means? Two albums from now we'll finally have Metropolis Part: 3 

[Kotowboy]

Oh.

My.



PETRUCCI.

[425]

You know what that means? Two albums from now we'll finally have Metropolis Part: 3 

Nah, it's going to be Outcry, Pt. 2.

[Darkstarshades]

You know? This Awake theory is actually pretty reasonable.

The cycle ended with Octavarium, and started again with Systematic Chaos.
SC is considered bad (albeit not by me), so was most of their demo stuff.
BC&SL is also considered bad, even worse than SC (again, not by me). This could have been the new WDADU.

Portnoy is the modern Charlie. Leaves DT.
Joins new member, then it was James, now MM.
New album is written WITHOUT that member (I&W was written with no vocals and ADTOE was written without the drummer, JP creating it).
ADTOE resembled I&W as they would have done it back then.
DT12 is the new Awake.
The next album is totally FII related. Will someone leave the band?

[Madman Shepherd]

You know? This Awake theory is actually pretty reasonable.

The cycle ended with Octavarium, and started again with Systematic Chaos.
SC is considered bad (albeit not by me), so was most of their demo stuff.
BC&SL is also considered bad, even worse than SC (again, not by me). This could have been the new WDADU.

Portnoy is the modern Charlie. Leaves DT.
Joins new member, then it was James, now MM.
New album is written WITHOUT that member (I&W was written with no vocals and ADTOE was written without the drummer, JP creating it).
ADTOE resembled I&W as they would have done it back then.
DT12 is the new Awake.
The next album is totally FII related. Will someone leave the band?

Holy shit.  Do you think they're going to kick Derek Sherinian out?

[SuperTaco]

The next album is totally FII related. Will someone leave the band?

Never! This version of Dream Theater should stay until they decide as a band to call it a day (Which is hopefully a very long time away).

[BlackInk]

I don't get how DT12 would be the "new Awake".

[Onno]

I don't get how DT12 would be the "new Awake".

I don't either.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't get how DT12 would be the "new Awake".

I don't either.

That's cause it isn't.

[Dani Helios]

I don't get how DT12 would be the "new Awake".

I don't either.

That's cause it isn't.

yeah... i don't really get that

[Pax]

Maybe there'll be a song ''Metropolis pt 3'' on the album, just like Metropolis pt 2 should've been on the FII, but they weren't allowed to make a double album
lol

[Dani Helios]

Maybe there'll be a song ''Metropolis pt 3'' on the album, just like Metropolis pt 2 should've been on the FII, but they weren't allowed to make a double album
lol

If that happens, then I predict that, after the album, Dream Theater will announce their new headlining world tour, with opening act, Ariana Grande.

[Kotowboy]

I don't get how DT12 would be the "new Awake".

I don't either.

That's cause it isn't.

That's cause it's a joke.

[NotePad]

No double album please. With Dream Theater, hearing their doing a double album will just result in a Oh Geez response from me because it doesn't really mean anything special from them. Every DT album feels like a double album. It just means more long instrumental parts and unnecessary keyboard solos, which we have heard enough of. I want a tight short album from them, like Awake

[425]

You already just got that, though.

While I don't want a double album, I do want to see them return to writing songs in the 8-13 minute range.

[GasparXR]

You already just got that, though.

While I don't want a double album, I do want to see them return to writing songs in the 8-13 minute range.

Well, maybe they wrote lots of those songs just for you, and as a result, it's a double album.

[425]

Maybe

Honestly, I just don't like the pressure of "here's an album that is this long." However, I have no problem with situations where two albums are released back to back (as in, less than 6 months apart) and are meant to be related, because then they can be listened to individually or as a pair. So if they really have almost two hours or more of high quality music, I'd like to see a double release.

[Rodni Demental]

No double album please. With Dream Theater, hearing their doing a double album will just result in a Oh Geez response from me because it doesn't really mean anything special from them. Every DT album feels like a double album. It just means more long instrumental parts and unnecessary keyboard solos, which we have heard enough of. I want a tight short album from them, like Awake

You seem to be describing what they did for Self Titled. Unless you mean you want them keep doing that or you want them to retry it for some other reasons but tbh I wouldn't expect them to try that twice in a row.

I don't even care what happens, but I certainly have nothing against a double album, there's no pressure or limitations and DT can unleash whatever they want. And as far as the perceived (or in this case preconceived) quality of a larger quantity of music goes; this will be completely subjective just as it has been for DTs entire music library.

Now, speaking of preconceptions. - Long instrumental Jams and over the top solos is part of what drew me to this band in the first place, more of that to fill up a double album sounds like win to me. Not to mention some of my favourite albums from this band are the 'epic' ones with a bunch of longer tracks, ie. 6DOIT/TOT/BC&SL.

Whatever happens, it's at least refreshing to see them try a different approach to what we expected. And I'm excited to hear whatever will come out of it.

[Octavarious]

Maybe

Honestly, I just don't like the pressure of "here's an album that is this long." However, I have no problem with situations where two albums are released back to back (as in, less than 6 months apart) and are meant to be related, because then they can be listened to individually or as a pair. So if they really have almost two hours or more of high quality music, I'd like to see a double release.

I guess you mean something like SOAD's Mezmerize + Hypnotize in 2005... The 2 CDs actually bundled together building one double CD in the end... They were just 6 months apart from each other, same year.
Well that was great but it doesn't happen frequently, and a resounding success like those 2 albums it' s not granted. I am not saying it won't be the case, but I doubt about DT considering this option...
We'll see next year...
By the way, a CD or a XMas gift online with the "best" of recent 30th aniversay tour could not be an option?

[Bertielee]

Exactly this, Rodni!

B.Lee

[TAC]

Now, speaking of preconceptions. - Long instrumental Jams and over the top solos is part of what drew me to this band in the first place, more of that to fill up a double album sounds like win to me.

Exactly.

[Kotowboy]

Now, speaking of preconceptions. - Long instrumental Jams and over the top solos is part of what drew me to this band in the first place, more of that to fill up a double album sounds like win to me.

Exactly.

At first it did but after Octavarium they started to sound less interesting and more like they were putting them in just because.

I got into DT around 2007 and I adored Rudess but over the years i've gotten really tired of his wacky lead playing and his lead tones have steadily gotten worse and his solos less interesting.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Now, speaking of preconceptions. - Long instrumental Jams and over the top solos is part of what drew me to this band in the first place, more of that to fill up a double album sounds like win to me.

Exactly.

At first it did but after Octavarium they started to sound less interesting and more like they were putting them in just because.

I got into DT around 2007 and I adored Rudess but over the years i've gotten really tired of his wacky lead playing and his lead tones have steadily gotten worse and his solos less interesting.

I agree on the Rudess point. I don't know why he ditched the lead sound he used on SFaM and SDoIT. It was beautiful and made some of his weaker solos like the one in TTTSTA sound better. He hasn't had a truly great solo since the moog solo in Octavarium. Since SC, his solos have been serviceable (AftR) at best and atrocious (ANtR) at worst.