Dream Theater's Influences and Inspirations: Love 'em or Hate 'em

[Zook]

I didn't come up with that either. I first heard that in middle school I think.

[chaossystem]

I dunno about the South Park thing specifically, but it sounds like another homage to Rush, not an attempt to denigrate DT.

It was on some "wall paper" thing

[chaossystem]

I didn't say they were denigrating D.T., they were probably just having a little fun. But some people MIGHT still be offended by it. I wasn't.

[Skeever]

Okay, what about the "Born into this world a broken home, Surrounded by love yet all alone," section of This Dying Soul?

No.  For one, that kind of rapid fire delivery of lyrics is not exclusive to rap, and for two, you have to consider what is going on musically as well, and nothing about the music there strikes me as rap.

Not exclusive to rap? If it was exclusive to rap, we wouldn't be hearing it on a Dream Theater song. 
I'd be hard pressed to tell you what is exclusive to rap. Like I said, music genres borrow from each other. I mean, heck, they used turn table scratches on The Glass Prison. At one point, those WERE exclusive to rap. But at some point, someone decided to borrow it for a different genre, and it made its way out of the hip-hop culture and into Metal etc.

Rap as a genre stands for "Rhythmic American Poetry", so as a genre, yes, those elements are what built it, and at the very least the first and the last are kind of a must when it comes to Rap music itself. But Rapping as an act is just a term used for a style of singing that's  focused on rhythm instead of melody. That's all it is. If you don't want to call what he's doing rapping, that's fine. But it's really nothing different from what rappers do. If I had the A Cappella version of it, I could easily take those JLB verses and put them over a rap beat, and have it sound perfectly fitting.

I love rap, but find this line of thinking pretty bizarre.

[chaossystem]

I found amusing that, off all my posts in this thread, the only one you replied to was the least important.
Ah, i'm not offended, i just don't like when people say things about something they don't know at all.

You're right. But I don't really know how to respond to someone who just says "I like rap" other than to keep saying "I don't like rap." But the "at all' part of your statement is quite wrong. If you go back and re-read some of my posts on this thread, you will learn that I do know at LEAST a little BIT about rap, and have given some well thought-out reasons for the way that I feel.

[Zook]

Eminem has some good songs. Some even quite emotional.

[Outcrier]

Eminem... meh, great MC but he only have one really great album.
So, i think he's pretty overrated (in how much he is popular), his music has been decent-bad for a long time now.

You're right. But I don't really know how to respond to someone who just says "I like rap" other than to keep saying "I don't like rap."

You should try reading my posts then if you think i only said "i like rap".

If you go back and re-read some of my posts on this thread, you will learn that I do know at LEAST a little BIT about rap, and have given some well thought-out reasons for the way that I feel.

That's the problem, you know at LEAST a little BIT. And the BIT happens to be the poor BIT, which i agree with you is poor (...i always found mainstream rap pretty bad, even disgusting sometimes...). Hip Hop is much more than what is popular/played on the radio.

[King Postwhore]

It would be just easier chaossystem if you said what I say about rap which I do not like.  i say, "It's just not my cup of tea." and most move right along.  nothing to be seen here.

[hefdaddy42]

Rap as a genre stands for "Rhythmic American Poetry"

No it doesn't.

Well, it's your word against The D.O.C. so unless you're gonna elaborate and give me a more definitive answer, don't just say I'm wrong.

For one thing, I don't know how hold you are, but I lived through the rise of rap, and was a large fan of early rap, and I have never heard that term before.

But let's do some research.

Yahoo: How did rap get it's name?
- of significance: "Although the word rap has sometimes been claimed to be a backronym of the phrase "Rhythmic American Poetry", "Rhythm and Poetry", "Rhythmically Applied Poetry", or "Rhythmically Associated Poetry", use of the word to describe quick and slangy speech or repartee long predates the musical form."

Wikipedia's article on Rapping

So, that is some made-up shit by The D.O.C.  "Rap" doesn't stand for anything, it's a word that originally meant talking, then when it was set to music it was called "rap music," then over time became rapping, just like rapping used to mean talking.  It is not an acronym for anything.

[King Postwhore]

The term rapping, like Hef said was a term for talking with others since I was a kid and like Hef, I grew up in that era when rap was rising and never heard that term.  I think nowadays,  everybody has a need to label every genre in the history of mankind.

[TheGreatPretender]

For one thing, I don't know how hold you are, but I lived through the rise of rap, and was a large fan of early rap, and I have never heard that term before.

But let's do some research.

Yahoo: How did rap get it's name?
- of significance: "Although the word rap has sometimes been claimed to be a backronym of the phrase "Rhythmic American Poetry", "Rhythm and Poetry", "Rhythmically Applied Poetry", or "Rhythmically Associated Poetry", use of the word to describe quick and slangy speech or repartee long predates the musical form."

Wikipedia's article on Rapping

So, that is some made-up shit by The D.O.C.  "Rap" doesn't stand for anything, it's a word that originally meant talking, then when it was set to music it was called "rap music," then over time became rapping, just like rapping used to mean talking.  It is not an acronym for anything.

All right, well, that still doesn't change the fact that rhythmic talking during a song is pretty much rapping. You can call it whatever you want, but what JLB does on TDS, Constant Motion, Just Let Me Breathe, a few other songs, it's no different than what a rapper does.

[King Postwhore]

Except they do it better.

[hefdaddy42]

For one thing, I don't know how hold you are, but I lived through the rise of rap, and was a large fan of early rap, and I have never heard that term before.

But let's do some research.

Yahoo: How did rap get it's name?
- of significance: "Although the word rap has sometimes been claimed to be a backronym of the phrase "Rhythmic American Poetry", "Rhythm and Poetry", "Rhythmically Applied Poetry", or "Rhythmically Associated Poetry", use of the word to describe quick and slangy speech or repartee long predates the musical form."

Wikipedia's article on Rapping

So, that is some made-up shit by The D.O.C.  "Rap" doesn't stand for anything, it's a word that originally meant talking, then when it was set to music it was called "rap music," then over time became rapping, just like rapping used to mean talking.  It is not an acronym for anything.

All right, well, that still doesn't change the fact that rhythmic talking during a song is pretty much rapping. You can call it whatever you want, but what JLB does on TDS, Constant Motion, Just Let Me Breathe, a few other songs, it's no different than what a rapper does.

I'd say it's quite a bit different.  I don't view all spoken word as rap, and I have no idea why anyone else would either.  But whatever.

[TheGreatPretender]

Except they do it better.

Yeah, well, let's face it, JP plays the guitar better than Lil' Wayne.... Actually, JLB still raps better than Lil' Wayne anyway. 

[King Postwhore]

 

Second best rapper from Canada only behind Snow.

[TheGreatPretender]

Second best rapper from Canada only behind Snow.

Beats the hell out of Drake, lol.

[Outcrier]

Because of guys like Lil Wayne that hip hop get's so much shit 

[TheGreatPretender]

Because of guys like Lil Wayne that hip hop get's so much shit 

Quoted for the truth. Although really, I'm never too hesitant to just blame the majority of music fans to actually listening to and liking that shit. We live in the age of Youtube, so there's absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't have access to good artists, if they bothered to do a quick search.

[rumborak]

WHAT???!!!



No wait, that's Lil Jon.

[chaossystem]

It would be just easier chaossystem if you said what I say about rap which I do not like.  i say, "It's just not my cup of tea." and most move right along.  nothing to be seen here.

You're probably right. Every time I get one of those messages I should just say something like "so which do you like better: prog or metal?"

[King Postwhore]

I like both.  That's how I personally was drawn to DT in 1992

[chaossystem]

Eminem... meh, great MC but he only have one really great album.
So, i think he's pretty overrated (in how much he is popular), his music has been decent-bad for a long time now.

You're right. But I don't really know how to respond to someone who just says "I like rap" other than to keep saying "I don't like rap."

You should try reading my posts then if you think i only said "i like rap".

If you go back and re-read some of my posts on this thread, you will learn that I do know at LEAST a little BIT about rap, and have given some well thought-out reasons for the way that I feel.

That's the problem, you know at LEAST a little BIT. And the BIT happens to be the poor BIT, which i agree with you is poor (...i always found mainstream rap pretty bad, even disgusting sometimes...). Hip Hop is much more than what is popular/played on the radio.

Oh, but I HAVE been paying attention. I was just trying to ENCAPSULATE what you said. How many times and how many ways has what I'VE been saying been taken out of context?
But let me see if I've captured your style: You keep going on and on about these "exotic" forms of rap that only YOU seem to know about, and at the the same time you keep agreeing with those of us about the rap that we HAVE been exposed to, or had forced upon us. As an example, every time someone else bashes this "Lil Wayne" character, you're right in there agreeing with them.
Then at the same time, you want me to go out of my way to track down a "superior brand" of something you already know I can't stand, just so I'll come back and say "Oh wow! I was SO wrong! This is the GREATEST THING I've ever heard..." when you haven't even named any NAMES or posted anything about WHAT it is that makes this special variety of rap so wonderful.
And yes, I have heard more than enough rap (wether I wanted to or not) over the last 25 years or so to make what I feel is a qualified judgement.
Are you even a DREAM THEATER fan at all? Or do you just come on here to laugh at those of us who are? You never seem to want to talk about them at all. Instead you waste too much of your time and energy defending something that a lot of us will never accept, in a way that makes no sense what-so-ever. If you are are just to laugh at us, that's fine. Just be honest about it, like I am with my views.

[hefdaddy42]

For God's sake, can we get away from rap?

[chaossystem]

So which do you like better? Prog or metal?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I like prog metal, non-metal prog and non-prog metal, but on the whole, I'm much more of a metal guy.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like prog metal, non-metal prog and non-prog metal, but on the whole, I'm much more of a metal guy.

Same here. What I love about DT is how they managed to blend the progressive elements, with the aggressive metalements.
But outside of Dream Theater, the vast majority of the artists I listen to are Metal.
Or rap. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, I also like rap metal, rap prog, and prograpmetal.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, I also like rap metal, rap prog, and prograpmetal.

My favorite would have to be progpunkraprockgrungecountrypopmetal.

[chaossystem]

Yeah, I also like rap metal, rap prog, and prograpmetal.

My favorite would have to be progpunkraprockgrungecountrypopmetal.

Lol! Can you give us an example?

[chaossystem]

I like prog metal, non-metal prog and non-prog metal, but on the whole, I'm much more of a metal guy.

Same here. What I love about DT is how they managed to blend the progressive elements, with the aggressive metalements.
But outside of Dream Theater, the vast majority of the artists I listen to are Metal.
Or rap. 

Me, too. But I still have a lot of respect for bands like Yes (up until "The Ladder" REALLY Awful!), Rush, Pink Floyd, Genesis, Kansas, etc.

[chaossystem]

I like prog metal, non-metal prog and non-prog metal, but on the whole, I'm much more of a metal guy.

I love bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica, but I think that what Dream Theater has done with that type of sound is vastly superior.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, I like DT a LOT more than either Metallica or IM, but on the other hand, I love bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, The Ocean, BTBAM etc more than I do DT.

[Dublagent66]

So which do you like better? Prog or metal?

Prog Metal. 

[Zook]

Yeah, I also like rap metal, rap prog, and prograpmetal.

My favorite would have to be progpunkraprockgrungecountrypopmetal.

Lol! Can you give us an example?

Kid Rock

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Mr. Bungle.