New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[Jinx]

A minor gripe I had after watching IT last night going into the SFAM suite was the way it completely fades out, crowd noise and all. Doesnt seem to flow as well as the BAI into Metropolis from LALP.

[efx]

Interesting to hear the comments on scarred. It's one of my favorite songs from Awake and I've always preferred it to say, Voices. The middle part ("Do you feel?") is one of my absolute favorite dt parts and the outro is magic.

I loved the performance of it on the blue ray but I'm not sure why the effects were necessary.

[Kotowboy]

I still havent got to Scarred yet but it truly is a 'Marmite' in the DT catalogue isnt it?

I tried to enjoy it but it's just not a hooky or catchy song at all imo.

[Cyclopssss]

Easily the best live DVD I´ve seen of DT, both soundwise and picture-wise. And finally the crowd response they so deserve!

[TAC]

So I'm about to head put to the store in about an hour to get the DVD. Is there really no CD version. WTF??

[cramx3]

I only watched the encore last night and I really enjoyed it.  Overture and Finally Free benefitted greatly from the choir and orchestra, but for SDV and TDOE, it felt like it wasnt as noticeable.  I am excited to watch more tonight!

[Podaar]

So I'm about to head put to the store in about an hour to get the DVD. Is there really no CD version. WTF??

I don't think so. There are CD's that came with my Blu-ray that I don't think I'll ever use. You're welcome to them.

[TAC]

So I'm about to head put to the store in about an hour to get the DVD. Is there really no CD version. WTF??

I don't think so. There are CD's that came with my Blu-ray that I don't think I'll ever use. You're welcome to them.

PM sent!

[Zook]

I still havent got to Scarred yet but it truly is a 'Marmite' in the DT catalogue isnt it?

I tried to enjoy it but it's just not a hooky or catchy song at all imo.

You're obviously listening to a different song.

[goo-goo]

Scarred is probably my Dream Theater all-time favorite song. 

Anyways, about the DVD. I finally got the digital album from Roadrunner and the mix is quite peculiar. It sounds very chorusy and with a lot of reverb. JP's tone and playing is indistinguishable. You can hardly hear what he's playing. Sounds very distorted and mushy and not clear. I do like James' vocals and JR's key presence (a tad low but ok). The bass sometimes you can hear it, sometimes you can't. Seems like the bass gets lost a lot when JP's guitar sound overtakes (and overwhelms) everybody else. I also think the drum sound is a bit lacking but its clear and you can hear most of the times what MM is playing...something that lacked on the last couple of studio albums.

A bit strange that I haven't been able to find the dvd or blu ray in Austin. I tried a couple of Best Buys and one FYE and was not lucky. Still waiting for the RR bundle to arrive in the mail. I'll try a Barnes and Noble today and see if its available. It's the first time I've had problems finding a DT release. I could even get it in El Paso, TX when I lived over there and its about 5x (probably more) smaller in size than Austin.

[Zydar]

It has arrived, Breaking Zydar's Fourth Couch.

[TAC]

Just opened my DVD. The pictures in the booklet are phenomenol. I remember as a kid, marveling at band shots on live albums.  These remind me of that.

[Kotowboy]

It has arrived, Breaking Zydar's Fourth Couch.

[Kotowboy]

I still havent got to Scarred yet but it truly is a 'Marmite' in the DT catalogue isnt it?

I tried to enjoy it but it's just not a hooky or catchy song at all imo.

You're obviously listening to a different song.

Or I just have a different opinion to you.

Notice how that has happened before ?

Yeah... It will happen again.

[gmillerdrake]

Was able to watch the first set last night. I'm not an audiophile nor have I ever really cared about this mix or that mix....I like DT music period paragraph end with any mix/producer/engineer....whatever.

Aside from them all sounding, looking and acting great the one thing that stood out to me throughout was the fact that Mike Mangini is a beast on the drums and was the perfect person to replace MP when he bolted for greener pastures. You can hear his playing very good....hear every bass drum and hi hat hit....and it illustrates greatly what an amazing drummer he is. Beat for beat he was fantastic.

Can't wait to watch the second set tonight.

[YtseJamittaja]

Mine arrived today too luckily at the same time with new blu-ray player!!

I really like the sound, the atmosphere and THE Mangini machine. Really, that guy is so full of energy!! I knew that but he still amazes me! Some of those fills are on the other planet.

The choir and orchestra was a little disappointment, they should have used it more, for example TDOE's ragtime section should have played by orchestra.

I can't understand the critics about sound quality. In my opinion all instruments are in really good balance. No complaints here!



One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

[Zydar]

I bet it's JM.

[ethebubbeth]

What's the verdict on the HDTracks version? Does it sound noticeably better than the CD, like DT12 HDTracks does?

The main reason that DT12 sounded better on HDTracks was because it had increased dynamic range.  The CD release had a lot of dynamic range compression applied during mastering whereas the HDTracks release did not.  It was not improved necessarily due to the increased bit depth and sample rate.

If you go back to my previous comment I posed a dynamics analysis comparing the LPCM track on the DVD (CD quality stereo) to the HDTracks release, and they have pretty much identical dynamic range so the HDTracks version will not sound noticeably better.

[bosk1]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

[gmillerdrake]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

It really sounds like they had a different individual speak them then they added that effect. On the studio version you can 'tell' it's MP with that deep effect added....this guys voice doesn't match MP's....or at least....it sounds different than the studio version.

[TAC]

Right. There's no way they're channeling MP's voice on it.

[goo-goo]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

It really sounds like they had a different individual speak them then they added that effect. On the studio version you can 'tell' it's MP with that deep effect added....this guys voice doesn't match MP's....or at least....it sounds different than the studio version.

Sounds like they re-recorded the backing track since last time that DT used a backing track, they got sued (Terry Brown, SFAM).

[gmillerdrake]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

It really sounds like they had a different individual speak them then they added that effect. On the studio version you can 'tell' it's MP with that deep effect added....this guys voice doesn't match MP's....or at least....it sounds different than the studio version.

Sounds like they re-recorded the backing track since last time that DT used a backing track, they got sued (Terry Brown, SFAM).

Really? I hadn't heard that. Was that the hypnotist?

[TAC]

So I'm watching the first set now, up to Trial Of Tears. Mike Mangini is KILLING IT. Incredible. You lament the loss of MP, with he changing setlists and all that, but after watching this, I don't know what you could say. MM is incredible.

[Nick]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

It really sounds like they had a different individual speak them then they added that effect. On the studio version you can 'tell' it's MP with that deep effect added....this guys voice doesn't match MP's....or at least....it sounds different than the studio version.

Sounds like they re-recorded the backing track since last time that DT used a backing track, they got sued (Terry Brown, SFAM).

Really? I hadn't heard that. Was that the hypnotist?

Yeah, according to MP, Terry did the part on SFAM as a hidden cameo. He also knew the band planned on playing the album in full. However they didn't expressly ask for his permission to use his recordings from SFAM on tour and he got upset when they did use them.

[gmillerdrake]

So I'm watching the first set now, up to Trial Of Tears. Mike Mangini is KILLING IT. Incredible. You lament the loss of MP, with he changing setlists and all that, but after watching this, I don't know what you could say. MM is incredible.

Those were my thoughts exactly. What impresses me about MM is that he doesn't take a 'vacation' in any songs. He plays the notes that are on the studio albums and may even add a few....especially the bass drum parts. For as fast and as impressive as his hand speed is his footwork is remarkable and both come through loud and clear on this DVD.

Oh and.....JP kills it on Trial of Tears (again) on this DVD....

[gmillerdrake]

One question: Who sings MP's parts in TSF? It definitely doesn't sound like James nor JP.

It is a backing track, with JP also joining in and singing over it as well.  It is hard to tell if the backing track is the same as the studio backing track or if they re-recorded it for the live shows.

Was there a financial settlement or did they just cease using his voice and re-record?

It really sounds like they had a different individual speak them then they added that effect. On the studio version you can 'tell' it's MP with that deep effect added....this guys voice doesn't match MP's....or at least....it sounds different than the studio version.

Sounds like they re-recorded the backing track since last time that DT used a backing track, they got sued (Terry Brown, SFAM).

Really? I hadn't heard that. Was that the hypnotist?

Yeah, according to MP, Terry did the part on SFAM as a hidden cameo. He also knew the band planned on playing the album in full. However they didn't expressly ask for his permission to use his recordings from SFAM on tour and he got upset when they did use them.

[Zook]

I still havent got to Scarred yet but it truly is a 'Marmite' in the DT catalogue isnt it?

I tried to enjoy it but it's just not a hooky or catchy song at all imo.

You're obviously listening to a different song.

Or I just have a different opinion to you.

Notice how that has happened before ?

Yeah... It will happen again.

NO! YOU ARE LISTENING TO A DIFFERENT SONG, DAMN IT!

[PixelDream]

I guess it's only available in some regions? I'm not seeing anything on Spotify, and when I try a direct link in my browser, the release does pop up but I can't click on any of the songs.

[goo-goo]

I guess it's only available in some regions? I'm not seeing anything on Spotify, and when I try a direct link in my browser, the release does pop up but I can't click on any of the songs.

I've seen some Oct 3 release  dates floating around. So that might be the issue that's still not officially released in certain countries

[The Holy Tune]

Just saw Illumination Theory, my god... I thought Octavarium was the best thing they ever made, my opinion has completely changed. Dream Theater has ascended into a whole new level people.

[JayOctavarium]

Ok so I've listened to it all the way through once... And right now I'm watching bits and pieces.... I have to say... The orchestral break in IT gave me goosebumps. Same with the One Last Time section of FF. Holy shit

[PixelDream]

I have sampled some songs through legal sources, but hell. People who are saying that this is a good sounding release. Please, man, please. For the sake of future audio, don't praise this kind of stuff too much. Don't encourage engineers and bands to make their music sound like this. It has close to zero dynamic range. I have audio meters in my mixing desk, and they're standing still all the time! Basically, like listening to a FM broadcast. Who on earth mastered this one? Didn't some of the guys in DT say (I guess it was Jordan?) that they were abandoning the 'loudness war' for once and for all? First DT12, and now even live their live releases are mega compressed?

[GentlemanofDread]

Every problem everyone has had with the sound, I've somehow managed to not suffer. Everything sounds good on my end.

[Zook]

Every problem everyone has had with the sound, I've somehow managed to not suffer. Everything sounds good on my end.

It sounds like an under produced live album (or a great sounding bootleg), and that's OK with me. If I'm listening to a live album, I want it to sound live. Too much polish on a live album makes it lose its authenticity.