The setlist so far... (DT-Side Tour Thread)

[The Stray Seed]

@TSS, I get that too, but there are plenty of bands who write songs with which their singers can achieve great dramatic effects without going for the F#'s.

I don't know. As I said before, that moment is just unmatched by any other. This is obviously my opinion though.

[Sacul]

 

[jonny108]

Here's an interview with JP and JLB discussing that section in The Pursuit of Truth, pretty interesting to know that James came up with that part.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNdWk45TsU&hd=1 Around 18 mins in.

[In The Name Of Rudess]

@TSS, I get that too, but there are plenty of bands who write songs with which their singers can achieve great dramatic effects without going for the F#'s.

I think that simpler/more comfortable melodies would make his technical problems more obvious.

Are you seriously saying that those "technical issues" are so great that he'd be fucking up left and right even in his most comfortable range? I'm critical of James as well, it's good to be critical and to expect more, but imo you're just taking it too far.

The reason why I think simpler/more comfortable melodies would not help much is that Labrie has a tendency to sing out of tune even in his most comfortable range. I don't know if this fits your definition of "fucking up left and right".

Obviously, James does mess up sometimes on some less difficult parts, but any given metal/rock singer will have his fair share of that.

This may be where our difference in opinion comes from: other than Dream Theater I almost exclusively listen to classical music where it's convention for singers to perform repertoire that is more difficult than Dream Theater's music night after night almost without any imperfections. So it could be that my standards are indeed too high for rock/metal music.

[MoraWintersoul]

This may be where our difference in opinion comes from: other than Dream Theater I almost exclusively listen to classical music where it's convention for singers to perform repertoire that is more difficult than Dream Theater's music night after night almost without any imperfections. So it could be that my standards are indeed too high for rock/metal music.

So DT is the only rock/metal band you listen to?

[CodyWanKenobi]

JP has always occasionally fumbled. Look at old Images & Words tour footage and it's not much different than now. He's a human and prone to fumbling just like anyone else. To qualify Rumboraks statement, any screw up whether its made in his advancing age or when he was young rarely goes unnoticed. It's just the nature of the music and the fans it attracts. It screams perfection. Anything out of place gets immediately noticed and scrutinized. With the age of YouTube, it's easy to pick up on all the faults now and make an observation like you have, bairrock.

I think he's pretty consistent and he's not losing his abilities at all. If anything, he's in better physical and mental shape now than he's been in his past. The guy takes great care of himself! Also consider, as time goes on and more material is written, that means more notes to add to the pile of millions already written. This is JP talking about, not only does the guy have to memorize all the stuff for that tour, but he probably has a shit-load of stuff idling in his head that was never written down, existing as nuggets of potential future songs. If he screws up a note here and there, I think he's doing a great job. I wouldn't take it as a sign of waning physical technique.

Good post. I agree!

In other news, I guess MP is back in the band for the NA leg of this tour - https://www.ebay.com/itm/039-ALongForTheRi-wbr-deTour-039-DREAM-THEATER-NORTH-AMERICAN-2014-BLACK-TEE-SIZE-S-2XL-/221359409176?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

[JayOctavarium]

I almost want that shirt

[bosk1]

In other news, I guess MP is back in the band for the NA leg of this tour - https://www.ebay.com/itm/039-ALongForTheRi-wbr-deTour-039-DREAM-THEATER-NORTH-AMERICAN-2014-BLACK-TEE-SIZE-S-2XL-/221359409176?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

"A Long For the Ride..." 

[jakepriest]

I hear the tour is very American.

[cramx3]

lol, clearly a picture from Black Clouds, and also the back of the shirt looks fake or its just a picture of the tour dates taped to the back.

[ErHaO]

@TSS, I get that too, but there are plenty of bands who write songs with which their singers can achieve great dramatic effects without going for the F#'s.

I think that simpler/more comfortable melodies would make his technical problems more obvious.

Are you seriously saying that those "technical issues" are so great that he'd be fucking up left and right even in his most comfortable range? I'm critical of James as well, it's good to be critical and to expect more, but imo you're just taking it too far.

The reason why I think simpler/more comfortable melodies would not help much is that Labrie has a tendency to sing out of tune even in his most comfortable range. I don't know if this fits your definition of "fucking up left and right".

Obviously, James does mess up sometimes on some less difficult parts, but any given metal/rock singer will have his fair share of that.

This may be where our difference in opinion comes from: other than Dream Theater I almost exclusively listen to classical music where it's convention for singers to perform repertoire that is more difficult than Dream Theater's music night after night almost without any imperfections. So it could be that my standards are indeed too high for rock/metal music.

While I do agree that Labrie has a tendency to go out of tune and mess up regardless of the difficulty, I do not agree with your notion regarding difficulty levels and standards within music. First of all, the styles (timing, flow of words, articulation etc.) and singing techniques are very, very different (allthough there are some classically trained metal/rock vocalists out there). In general, classical singers are often able to preserve their voice very good because the techniques fitting their sound lend them this possibility, while rock and metal styles tend to wear more on the vocal chords (this offcourse does not have to be the case). Everybody has his own natural vocal capabilities and is best suited for certain genres. You cannot let an opera singer do a Symphony X piece and likewise, Russel Allen probably should not try singing a traditional classical piece.

Labrie can be a very inconsistent singer (sometimes he sounds very good, but some concerts are really quite bad). To his advantage, he has a very unique sound and that is always something I value a lot. Furthermore, DT also utilizes a lot of different aproaches to vocal melodies. A 6:00 is a very different job than a Test That Stumped Them All, Breaking All Illusions, Lie or Pull Me Under. To name a few. Not to say that classical music does not have it's variations, offcourse.

On their top game, the better rock/metal vocalists are very consistent. Unfortunately, a lot get some vocal problems or lose some of their range at a certain point in their career. That does not, however, translate to a lack of talent and "easy" music with bad technique.

[Aythesryche]

It's almost as good as this shirt:

[cramx3]

  love the face of the person for the back of the shirt

[wasteland]

love the face of the person for the back of the shirt

This

[bosk1]

I could be wrong, but I think it kinda looks shooped.

[jakepriest]

I could be wrong, but I think it kinda looks shooped.

This is a work of art.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

[Nearmyth]

I kinda just skipped from the beginning of the thread, but I really REALLY hope the setlist they have now carries over to the North American tour. When I saw what songs they were playing, I was so incredibly excited. Praying to Godtrucci they keep it 

[BlobVanDam]

In other news, I guess MP is back in the band for the NA leg of this tour - https://www.ebay.com/itm/039-ALongForTheRi-wbr-deTour-039-DREAM-THEATER-NORTH-AMERICAN-2014-BLACK-TEE-SIZE-S-2XL-/221359409176?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

"A Long For the Ride..." 

Is that the name of the DT porno?

[LTE3]

I think MP did a much better job with the set lists, lets face it the guy put a lot of effort into the sets for each location DT played looking back and doing his best to give that location a different group of songs. For that alone their is no comparison. I think the new set list has some high's like the representation of Awake and Scenes, but to have An Evening With and ignore full albums makes no sense to me and is really a missed opportunity. We don't need to hear On the Backs of Angels again this tour for instance. I love the song but they just toured it to death. Also I don't get Space Dyed Vest at all. It is a Kevin Moore song, not a DT song. The guy does not even want to acknowledge his time with the band almost. The majority of the fan would prefer almost anything from the huge catalog of songs that they are ignoring other than that song. I just don't get it other then it is a little jab at MP because he said they would never play it. Honestly I think it will be cool to hear, I just think putting Home back into a show would be so much better or all the others they are choosing to leave out.

[CodyWanKenobi]

Also I don't get Space Dyed Vest at all. It is a Kevin Moore song, not a DT song.

That's funny cause last time I checked, it was on a DT album not a Kevin Moore album.

[In The Name Of Rudess]

This may be where our difference in opinion comes from: other than Dream Theater I almost exclusively listen to classical music where it's convention for singers to perform repertoire that is more difficult than Dream Theater's music night after night almost without any imperfections. So it could be that my standards are indeed too high for rock/metal music.

So DT is the only rock/metal band you listen to?

Yes, basically, I find that in most rock/metal music there is either not enough interesting stuff going on to keep my attention or when there is a lot going on it becomes too clinical and devoid of emotion (Meshuggah for example). I do like Opeth as well, but Akerfeldt is I feel very different from most rock singers in that he relies more on his timbre than on extremes of range/vocal agility so he is quite dissimilar to Labrie. So Labrie is indeed my only point of reference when it comes to "traditional" rock/metal singers.

@TSS, I get that too, but there are plenty of bands who write songs with which their singers can achieve great dramatic effects without going for the F#'s.

I think that simpler/more comfortable melodies would make his technical problems more obvious.

Are you seriously saying that those "technical issues" are so great that he'd be fucking up left and right even in his most comfortable range? I'm critical of James as well, it's good to be critical and to expect more, but imo you're just taking it too far.

The reason why I think simpler/more comfortable melodies would not help much is that Labrie has a tendency to sing out of tune even in his most comfortable range. I don't know if this fits your definition of "fucking up left and right".

Obviously, James does mess up sometimes on some less difficult parts, but any given metal/rock singer will have his fair share of that.

This may be where our difference in opinion comes from: other than Dream Theater I almost exclusively listen to classical music where it's convention for singers to perform repertoire that is more difficult than Dream Theater's music night after night almost without any imperfections. So it could be that my standards are indeed too high for rock/metal music.

While I do agree that Labrie has a tendency to go out of tune and mess up regardless of the difficulty, I do not agree with your notion regarding difficulty levels and standards within music. First of all, the styles (timing, flow of words, articulation etc.) and singing techniques are very, very different (allthough there are some classically trained metal/rock vocalists out there). In general, classical singers are often able to preserve their voice very good because the techniques fitting their sound lend them this possibility, while rock and metal styles tend to wear more on the vocal chords (this offcourse does not have to be the case). Everybody has his own natural vocal capabilities and is best suited for certain genres. You cannot let an opera singer do a Symphony X piece and likewise, Russel Allen probably should not try singing a traditional classical piece.

...

On their top game, the better rock/metal vocalists are very consistent. Unfortunately, a lot get some vocal problems or lose some of their range at a certain point in their career. That does not, however, translate to a lack of talent and "easy" music with bad technique.

I can see how metal/rock music could be more straining on the vocal cords, with the raspy/harsh tone and stuff, and that is thus in a way more difficult to perform (or at least as difficult). But it does seem to me that if a singer struggles to get notes or gets vocal problems and loses their range then there must be some serious technical issues involved as well? (unless the singer in question has medical issues of course) There are singers who put much more strain on their voices without problems, take Mikael Akerfeldt for example, he does growling which I imagine is just about the hardest thing you can do to your voice, he tours at least twice as much as DT and he smokes cigarettes but he seems to have little trouble with his voice.

[aprilethereal]

The majority of the fan would prefer almost anything from the huge catalog of songs that they are ignoring other than that song. I just don't get it other then it is a little jab at MP because he said they would never play it.

Or maybe because the majority of the fanbase would love to hear this legendary, (almost) universally loved song they never played before live instead of some others that were played hundreds of times?

[BlobVanDam]

Universally loved? That's a stretch. It's a love/hate kind of song, and divisive, even if mostly liked. And the only thing legendary about it is the fact they've never felt the need to play it before. If it weren't for that, it wouldn't have built up the unwarranted mystique it seems to have.

[Kilgore Trout]

Rock singers tend to overuse their voice in regard to their actual technique.
In classical training, you learn to not "oversing". You learn your register, your safety zone, and you stay in it for while, pushing its boundaries very slowly. A classical singer will spend 8-10 years of learning before actually consider he "can sing". A lot of rock singers just go for it. In that respect, most of them are amateurs - and I like a lot of rock singers, but technicaly, they're terrible, they do a lot of things you simply mustn't do if you want to be able to sing at 40.
A lot of metal/rock melodies are simply not written in a way that you would not harm you voice if you sang these melodies on a regular basis. But in rock music, you can adapt the melody to your own voice : regular singers like Akerfeldt simply know their voice well, and don't try to use them outside of their real possibilities. On the other hand, someone like Chris Cornell, who had a amazing voice, oversang everything, wrote things impossible to sing on a regular basis, and ended up destroying his voice.

That being said, there is some classical music that wears a lot on the vocal chords, more than anything in rock music, and a lot of classical singers have problems with their voices too. And a lot of classical singers fuck up too some nights.

In these regards, Labrie is far from being a bad rock/metal singer. The out-of-tune thing is a pure technical problem : it's an "inside ear" thing, not a physical problem. But then again, I haven't heard a lot rock singers with good accuracy.

[cramx3]

I'm not a big fan of SDV but I am excited to see it and I would hope after this tour they never play it again.

[OctavariumElite]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm much more disapointed by the "out of tune" thing than the very high notes problem.

I can perfectly understand the loss of range during a carreer, but I can definitly NOT understand how it is possible that a singer like labrie is so often out of tune even in mid range.

After 25 or 30 years, how come he never found a solution to solve this problem

I'm sure he can here he's out of tune, and he can afford jamie vendeira, so what's the problem ??

Max

[Perpetual Change]

I've talked to a pretty good singer who's a DT fan, and she's thrown all the reasons for James singing out of tune at me.

Poor vowel modification, breathe management, James' vibrato being so intense that you it's hard to identify the intended note, etc.

I'm not a signer, so aside from the last thing which I can hear, I have no idea what any of these things mean.

[MoraWintersoul]

There are singers who put much more strain on their voices without problems, take Mikael Akerfeldt for example, he does growling which I imagine is just about the hardest thing you can do to your voice, he tours at least twice as much as DT and he smokes cigarettes but he seems to have little trouble with his voice.

Actually, he doesn't do growling so much anymore, and many Opeth fans have told me that his growl, when he does it, is significantly weaker nowadays, so there's that.

[Onno]

There are singers who put much more strain on their voices without problems, take Mikael Akerfeldt for example, he does growling which I imagine is just about the hardest thing you can do to your voice, he tours at least twice as much as DT and he smokes cigarettes but he seems to have little trouble with his voice.

Actually, he doesn't do growling so much anymore, and many Opeth fans have told me that his growl, when he does it, is significantly weaker nowadays, so there's that.

His growl isn't weaker, but his voice/singing has been getting a bit lower since about 2005. He can't do the higher growls anymore really due to that. So his growling generally is lower, but it's not weaker IMO.

[?]

Mikael's growling was very weak around 2010 due to the use of in-ear monitors, as you can hear on the Royal Albert Hall DVD. He's gotten a bit better since then, but his growling still doesn't sound as good as 10 years ago.

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm sure he can here he's out of tune, and he can afford jamie vendeira, so what's the problem ??

Work ? Past a certain time, you don't want/take the time to work on your technique anymore. You just go with what you've got. Same goes for the other guys. There was a interview where Portnoy admitted he didn't train on his technique anymore - which I believe is true for pretty much every professionnal rock musician.

[Onno]

True, but I don't think weaker growls due to in-ear monitors have anything to do with vocal ability. His growling isn't as good as 10 years ago but it's nowhere near as bad as some people say.

[TobiGuitar94]

I was at the concert yesterday in Vienna here is my summary of Labrie`s peformance.

Having seen them for a thrid time in a row (2011,2012) i have to say that this was by far his best performance.
While at the beginning i had the feel that he was not perfectly on pitch during TSF, i realized he was just warming up.
He really nailed the Awake set, even changin some lines for the better (also on a couple of songs on the 1st set).
While im not too familiar with any kind of proffessional singing hes voice had some kind of power and sustain it was lacking a bit during the other two concerts i have seen. Pitch was perfect from TSF onwards till the end. Crowd interaction was amazing. James just seemed to be really confident.
He also nailed the Pursuit of Truth in IT.
Overall his awesome performance was the biggest suprise for me (the other band members having played superb and flawless as usual).
By far the best setlist and best concert out of the 3 times i saw them!

[MirzekDT]

I was at the concert yesterday in Vienna here is my summary of Labrie`s peformance.

Having seen them for a thrid time in a row (2011,2012) i have to say that this was by far his best performance.
While at the beginning i had the feel that he was not perfectly on pitch during TSF, i realized he was just warming up.
He really nailed the Awake set, even changin some lines for the better (also on a couple of songs on the 1st set).
While im not too familiar with any kind of proffessional singing hes voice had some kind of power and sustain it was lacking a bit during the other two concerts i have seen. Pitch was perfect from TSF onwards till the end. Crowd interaction was amazing. James just seemed to be really confident.
He also nailed the Pursuit of Truth in IT.
Overall his awesome performance was the biggest suprise for me (the other band members having played superb and flawless as usual).
By far the best setlist and best concert out of the 3 times i saw them!

I was there too and I can submit everything you said. LaBrie was amazing and whole concert was one incredible experience and my best DT concert from 4 times I saw them.